Cyclops is Always Right

>>81422546
(cont)

And yet, you know what? Every time they try and make Cyclops do something they can point to as evil, due to his character, it's really hard to actually call him out on it because he's almost always right.

>>81422546
People don't like Cyclops because he's a boring cunt. Telepaths like him because he's a boring cunt and the mental equivalent of elevator music.

>>81422546
>>81422558
Is Cyclops the Superman of Marvel?
Wolverine is Marvel's Batman so it'd make sense

for all the shit sims gets, his column isn't bad. he has some decent ideas/theories/tastes

>>81422546
Even as a kid I loved Cyclops.
As the leader, the weight of the team and all of their problems.
And since X-Men was even more of a soap opera than the average comic, there were a fuck-ton of problems.

I (pretty unfairly) came to see Wolverine as a childish douchebag since he seemed to cause as many problems as he helped solve.

>>81422546

I always liked Cyclops and hated Wolverine as a kid, but that might be due to the fact that I was an older brother and therefore burdened with the responsibility of looking after younger and dumber siblings.

Cyclops is best when he has his "MUH PHOENIX" moments.

Without personal crisis his character is way too stiff. Replace him with an android who shoots laser beams and nothing really changes.

>>81425299
My favorite era of Cyclops is from Dark Phoenix Saga up to Inferno. It's just a long stint of depression and possibly going insane for him

it's amazing how Louise Simonson salvaged the character assassination that was done to him and turned X-Factor around

>>81422546
>Even more recently he was killed off-panel for no reason

He's not dead.

>>81425753
He's biding his time. Waiting for the RIGHT opportunity to show up.

>>81425834
What are the chances that Cyclops is the new Apocalypse? There is a precedent

>>81423947

Cuclops wishes.

Spider-Man is Marvel's Superman. Hell, these days with the movie boom Captain America might be a better choice.

>>81422546

It's funny because if the characters were real, Cyclops would be the cool one and Wolverine the asshole that nobody likes. I'm not sure how Marvel writers convinced themselves that Logan is the lovable, badass ladykiller while Scott is the silver medal that nobody wants.

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>>81426115
Its almost like people forget INTROVERT NERDS WRITE THIS SHIT

>>81423947
Warren Ellis believes Cyclops is the X-Men's Batman, IIRC.

>>81426115
>if the characters were real

But they're not, so no one wants to watch Cyclops be an emotionally well-rounded individual in a bubble.

>>81426115
What happened was when Xavier was the head guy he was the coach and Cyke was the quarterback. People hate coaches but they like QB's. The problem is when they got rid of Xavier Cyke became the coach and Wolvie the QB so now people hate Cyke and love Logan even though Logan is one of those crappy career backups who gets lucky and wins a game once in a while but usually sucks

>>81426115
>I'm not sure how Marvel writers convinced themselves that Logan is the lovable, badass ladykiller while Scott is the silver medal

I feel like Mark Millar did a pretty good job establishing that Ultimate Wolverine was a sack of shit. Even better that his whole team realized it and wanted to throw him out

>>81426215

It's more that it's a storytelling medium and, as such, revolves more around interesting characters than likeable/stable ones. Sure if this were the real world Cyclops would be more popular than Wolverine, but no one wants to read about how perfect and well put together he is.

No one wants to see Daredevil pay his taxes on time and be in bed by 10.

No one wants to see Superman wash the dishes, call his mother and walk the dog.

No one wants to see Cyclops be a generic Chad.

>>81426356
Wolverine hasn't been interesting in years

I feel like one of the reasons people are always so defensive of Cyclops here is because they project onto him. I feel like a lot of the people who flip their shit at the notion that others find Cyclops boring have either been called boring themselves or just want to see their self-insert be the best.

It's the Spider-Man dilemma.

>>81426414
Wolverine is Tebow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUUPNzF3-2Q

>>81422546
I love comic book cyclops and I hate comic book wolverine, but I hate movie cyclops and love movie wolverine (at least the wolverine from The Wolverine and DOFP the others are shit.

>>81426461

Doesn't mean Cyclops is interesting.

>>81426461
He continues to get less interesting every time his backstory is explored. Fuck Origin and everything that came after it

>>81426549
I agree Wolverine being less interesting lately isn't directly tied to Cyclops being more interesting but the fact remains that Cyclops is more interesting.

>>81426594
Good point

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>>81422546
I remember when bendis had that mutant who had those reality warping powers he couldnt control.

shield and everyone else wanted to nuke the kid. but cyclops went in on his own to try and talk to him, to help him. it all went wrong.

so that time travel bitch went back in time and conned prof x into helping her make it so the kid never existed because his parents didnt meet. she undid an entire loving relationship and a whole human life childhood and all. which in some ways yeah kinda get.

then she went to the present and told cyclops off for being a piece of shit that caused all the problems by trying to further his terrorist crusade when he was trying to help a fellow mutant out like prof x would have.

that is cyclops to marvel in a nutshell.
He is literally in the wrong for doing the right thing...and he always does the right thing. because hes right.

hes rightclops.

Cyclops abandoned his wife and infant child so he could hook up with his ex girlfriend.

He's a terrible person and deserves every bit of shit he gets.

>>81426710
marvel made Claremont write that

>>81426656

>More interesting

That doesn't actually make him interesting, though.

Being more interesting than modern Wolverine amounts to jack shit. There are still dozens of genuinely interesting X-Men for him to lose to.

>>81426676
That's the beauty. The people that hate Cyclops only end up making him more interesting.

>>81426710
You're misrepresenting that sequence of events to make him look worse.

>>81426442
I do want to see Superman call his mother, because it's cute, and walk the dog, because he probably walks Krypto around the Solar System.

I don't remember Cyclops fans being so vocal and obnoxious until recently. What gives?

>>81426676
Cyclops is your perfect soldier and what you do when you don't have the rights for your perfect soldier and he isn't a big seller? You let him die.

Cyclops is a douche bag. They've never made him cool in the comics, never made him cool in the cartoons and they've somehow made him less cool in the movies.

>>81426773

Maybe Superman was a bad example. because actually I kind of want to see that shit too.

But my point is what drives characters is conflict and facing their flaws. Cyclops being a more well-rounded and likable person in real life doesn't make him an interesting character in a narrative sense.

>>81426758
>You're misrepresenting that sequence of events to make him look worse.

You're right. I should have said

>Cyclops marries a girl just because she looks like his ex girlfriend
>When he finds out his ex has come back from the dead, he abandons his wife and infant child to go hook back up with her
>He never tells his ex that he's married or has a kid because he doesn't want to "ruin his chances" to get back with her
>The mental and emotional anguish he put his wife through causes her to lose her mind and destroy her life
>A few years later, Cyclops becomes bored with Jean and cheats on her with Emma.

He's fucking scum, anon. You idolize scum.

>>81426813

He was briefly cool in the comics when they made him Magneto, but that really only goes to prove the point that he's not particularly interesting.

>>81426754
What a lame argument. Fine. Cyclops is one of the most interesting X-men. The way he has to handle all the idiots around him and keep pushing forward is fun to read and represents a core part of the X-men formula. No other X-character is as interesting in a purely X-related way.

>>81426792
marvel killed off Cyke off screen after he gave a speech in the capitol about how mutants can live in peace with humans

>>81426442
>No one wants to see Superman wash the dishes, call his mother and walk the dog.
That is EXACTLY what I want to see.

>>81426885

>What a lame argument?

How? I stated that he's not a particularly interesting character and, because you disagree with that, it's a lame argument? Hell it was barely even an argument so much as it was the statement of an opinion.

>The way he has to handle all the idiots around him and keep pushing forward is fun to read

I mean, if you think so, that's fine, but I don't agree.

>No other X-character is as interesting in a purely X-related way.

Professor X is a more interesting character who has that same dynamic.

>>81426710
>so he could hook up with his ex girlfriend

No he abandoned them so he could go back to being a superhero because he realized he couldn't handle civilian life. He didn't even kiss Jean until after he thought his wife was dead

>>81426864
Go re-read X-factor. You're projecting your own motivations onto his actions. If you found out that a long time friend was back from the dead you would go check that shit out. Yes he does get caught up in the inherently soap opera-y plottings of the X-men and not return right away but it wasn't like he said "fuck being a dad" and left. The Jean-Scott-Emma triangle is far more complex than being "bored" with Jean.

I'm not sure what your agenda is but every time there's a Cyclops there you waltz in with your shitty opinion and act like an authority on something you've probably never read

>>81424964
Speakin the truth. Damn youn ger siblings being annoying little brats that you have to watch over.

>>81426082
>Spiderman=Superman
>The guy who sold his marriage to the devil and got cucked by Norman Osborn

Bitch please.

>>81426737
No Marvel ( Roger Stern, John Byrne, and Bob Layton specifically) was going to do it themselves. Chris started a subplot about Scott and Maddy's marriage having issues so the walk out wouldn't be completely sudden

I can't imagine how furious he was when he found out. All I know is he almost quit and he's still mad about it today

Was Rucka's Cyclops run decent? Because between Bendis, Secret Wars, and editorial letting manchildren like Sims write X-Men it seems like the character has a bad few years more.

>>81427045
>If you found out that a long time friend was back from the dead you would go check that shit out.


No one who brings up him leaving his wife has ever read X-Factor. They've seen one page or read some shitty Cracked article about why Cyclops sucks

>>81427045
>I'm not sure what your agenda is but every time there's a Cyclops there you waltz in with your shitty opinion and act like an authority on something you've probably never read

Considering this is the first time I've ever posted about Cyclops, I think the actual situation is that most people who have read 80s X-Men/X-Factor know what a piece of shit Cyclops is and bring it up in threads about Cyclops.

Dude walked out on his family for a booty call. That's the kind of guy he is.

>>81422546
isn't Wolvernine now the establishment? How can he be a rebel if he's part of the Avengers?

>>81423947
no, Cyclops is Marvels Wonderwoman, or Martian manhunter.

>>81426676
>shield and everyone else wanted to nuke the kid. but cyclops went in on his own to try and talk to him, to help him. it all went wrong.
The worst thing, it didn't go wrong because of Cyke. No, he would have calmed the guy and made him an X-man. But shield saw ciclops there and decided to bomb everything. Cause that works on reality shapers, of course.

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>>81422546
Madrox is superior to Cyke in every possible way.

>>81426792
For me I didnt care for cyclops until the AvX event. I thought he was on point and in the right that whole time. But they continually tried to paint him as irrational and wrong.
>how dare he not give a mutant up to the avengers after they claim to come in piece while bringing a ship full of other avengers ready for battle to a place they have no jurisdiction.
But at the end of the whole shebang he has killed professor x and been driven to the point where he realizes he can no longer uphold the dream as hes tried. so he lets magneto break him out of prison and leaves the x-mens care behind to wolverine. goes off and decides to do whatever it takes regardless of whether professor x would have approved to ensure the future of mutantkind.

That was an interesting thing. an interesting swerve on a character. They could have done so many cool things and it instantly made me like the character.

But then bendis did nothing so....oh well.

>>81427100

Nigga, if it ain't Spider-Man, it's Captain America. If it ain't Captain America, it's Thor. Cyclops isn't even in the running.

>>81427190
>isn't Wolvernine now the establishment?

I don't think you can really be the establishment when you're dead, anon.

>>81426965
>How? I stated that he's not a particularly interesting character and, because you disagree with that, it's a lame argument? Hell it was barely even an argument so much as it was the statement of an opinion.

I responded to a deleted post that claimed that Wolverine was still interesting. You brought Cyclops into it and started comparing the two, pretending that Cyclops' "interestingness" is related to Wolverine's and then backpedaling by saying that being more interesting than Wolverine doesn't make him interesting.


>Professor X is a more interesting character who has that same dynamic.

Professor X is boring because any drama with him amounts to whether or not to mind control someone. That can be entertaining but when the character is as much of a dirtbag as Xavier is you're left wondering why he doesn't do this to the whole world and stop pretending to be the good guy. Cyclops has to burn bridges or form genuine relashionships to get by.

>>81426792
>I don't remember Cyclops fans being so vocal and obnoxious until recently. What gives?

Seeing how hard they're trying to justify abandoning your family for an easy lay, I'd say they're stretching pretty hard right now.

>>81427202
That's pretty much how Dark Phoenix Saga went to shit

> Jean going crazy at the mansion
> Cyclops manages to talk her down
> he even proposes on the spot
> Xavier comes back form space after learning about the Phoenix
> asks no questions just mind attacks jean

Xavier was really shit until he mellows out during New Mutants

>>81427178
>do the exact same drive by shitpost like always
>nuh nuh i've never posted about cyclops before

>>81427214
Is Wolverine even a good leader for the X-Men? I always figured that once he became popular, that the writers would try to defang him.

>>81427342
>Xavier mind attacks jean
>Xavier probably mind controlled a lot of the x-guys
>Xavier erased memories from a lot of the x-dudes
>Xavier basically tortured an A.I. that later tried to kill the x-men (Danger Room)
Xavier was/is shit.

>>81427355

You seem pretty insecure, anon.

>>81427119
It was a fun and nice father son dynamic.

>>81427277

>Deleted post

wow it's like we're on an anonymous image board where more than one person can argue with you in a thread

>Cyclops has to burn bridges or form genuine relashionships to get by.

Didn't Professor X literally become alienated from the X-Men because of his techniques? I think that constitutes as him burning bridges.

And despite Cyclops' character dynamics, his actual personality and character motivations are like watching paint dry. It's not that he's the stable leader guy, because that's been done in an interesting way before (Captain America, Superman), it's just that this particular variation has, in my opinion, never been done in a particularly interesting fashion. Between his Jean pining, his love triangle, his 'telepaths love him, find out why' and his becoming Magneto, I just never thought Cyclops stood out as being interesting. Wolverine's fucking dull too, but at least he had that period before everyone kept filling in his past and making him progressively worse.

>>81427424
there was always some trouble happening and some terrible shit happening, but with cyke you knew the solution was happening because he always had a plan....wolverine is basically "whatever happens, happens"

>>81427424
>Is Wolverine even a good leader for the X-Men

No. I feel like trying to make Wolverine into a leader was one of the key mistakes to his modern characterisation. He's not supposed to be the leader, it flies completely in the face of his character.

I was always a moral uptight do the right thing kid that nobody likes when I was a kid. I mellowed down when I grew up but I still see myself in Cyclops and feel bad when people find him boring.

>>81427432
You seem to be caught in a lie

>this is the first time I've ever posted about Cyclops
>stick around the thread repeating yourself with either a grudge against cyclops fans or desire for (you)s

>>81427424
I don't recall him being used as team leader so much as school headmaster. it actually worked quite naturally in having the character still be who he was but be tempered over time and experience.

>>81427534

At least you're honest about it, unlike most Cykefags.

>>81423947
> is X the Z of Y?

I want a button to push that kills all millennials everywhere at once

>>81427543

I'm just enjoying watching you spiral.

>>81427543

mate, there is more than one person in this thread who disagrees with you, I don't see why that's so difficult for you to accept

>>81427470
I never claimed that you deleted the post.

>Didn't Professor X literally become alienated from the X-Men because of his techniques? I think that constitutes as him burning bridges.

If he wanted he could just mindwipe them and make them forget.

>>81427543

You know it's entirely possible that more than one person might disagree with you on a topic, right?

Do you think that a single individual is stalking you across the internet and that anytime someone somewhere disagrees with you then it MUST be that single person?

That's incredibly paranoid.

>>81427104
>he's still mad about it today
he was mad about Logan getting a backstory after 10 years of refusing to write one himself

that being said Chris was in the right here

>>81427626
>there is more than one person in this thread who disagrees with you

There is but there is only one person that is beating the "Cyclops is an evil adulterer" angle

>>81427593
>being over the age of 35 and still posting on 4chan
Go to bed, Gramps.

>>81426215
Cyclops is more of the introvert nerd than Wolverine is.

>>81427425
And all of that was written as a retcon. Under Claremont he was flawed but generally sincere.

>>81427646

But he doesn't, which is an interesting thing that's touched upon with is character -- he could just wipe their minds and make it easy on himself, but he chooses to accept his penance and not go any further.

Cyclop's thing has always just been "I'm the guy who's in charge, you don't have to like it, but that's who I am. I'll make this hard decision and maybe a few of you will get pissed for a bit but then you'll either fuck off or accept that I am right"

You might find that interesting, but I don't.

>>81427694
>There is but there is only one person that is beating the "Cyclops is an evil adulterer" angle
wait not that guy but how would you even know that?
I mean besides you assuming it must be one guy would it not be possible for either:
a: more than one person to have the same opinion
b: one person sees a point another made and agrees and brings it up later as well

>>81422546
Cyclops and Magneto exist in an a weird storytelling device that makes us as an audience see them as more logical. Because DRAMA! mutants have to be hated and feared or on the verge of extinction. The X-Men pursue understanding and peace but can never have it. We as comics fans recognize this, and it makes characters who take more drastic pro mutant action more sympathetic, because we know that the X-Men can't succeed in their mission. Realistically, black ops teams and preemptive action make sense in a world that hates and fears them to the extent that it'll build machines to commit genocide. But honestly, the X-Men don't really make sense in the marvel universe. How do you know who is a mutant and who just has superpowers? I kinda actually wish the X-Men were put into their own universe, because that would solve so many issues that make no sense.

>>81426508
Found the Wolverine fag

>>81427723

>J-Jeeeeaaaaaan~
>I'm in charge, you guys
>The Professor said...
>tfw chad tries to still your oneitis
>Muh Island
>Why won't Logan be my friend, bros?
>REEEEEEEE HUMIES GET OUT GET OUT X GON GIVE IT TO YA GET OUUUUUUUUT

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> Cyclops bias even carries over into the games

Ditching Cyclops for 3 was awful, Ryu and Wolverine have zero chemistry.

>>81426233
It's not a bad comparison.
As Ellis points out, he has a single amazingly potent superpower which he has nonetheless managed to control with great precision and has been training for being a superhero a basically nothing else his entire life from his early teenage years to adulthood.

Guy has 100% of the dedication Batman does to his job. He just isn't an edgy rebel.

>>81427746
The mind attack on Jean wasn't, nor were all his pre-giant size shenanigans. Even under Claremont he wasn't above indiscriminate mindwipes to serve his purposes

>>81427746
>he was flawed but generally sincere

His biggest problem was control issues, especially with the All New team. He was used to having teens that never really questioned him. Then he starts giving orders to full grown adults like their his teen wards and he's surprised when they don't automatically respect his authority

>>81427824

>he doesn't like X, he must like Y who I consider inferior to X

Another sign that someone self-inserts onto a character.

>>81426549
Unfortunately that applies to nearly the entirety of the X-Men. There's a lot of X-books and a lot of X-book authors and the vast majority of them are utter horseshit on multiple levels.

>>81427791
The tone of the posts is the same. There's no change in how he frames the scene.

>>81427858
>He just isn't an edgy rebel

H was more of a whiny romance comic character

> How can I tell Jean I love her with these eyes that could destroy her!

>>81427947

dude youre really tryharding right now

>>81427854
I want to believe this is an edit.
Please anon, tell me its an edit, my heart wont be able to handle it if he was in the game at some point...

>>81426710
Claremont hated that plot and was forced to write it and then cease writing Cyclops all together.
These characters do not make life choices because they aren't real people, ya fucknuggit.

Instead editors and writers write them as making choices. As it turns out, most of Cyclops' bad ones have to do with editors shitting all over his characterization and ongoing stories.

>>81427922

I think a lot of people are under the misconception that if Wolverine didn't exist then their favourite X-Man would be just as popular and beloved as he is. The fact is Wolverine became popular because so many X-Men and X-Books were just flat.

One thing about the X-Men that doesn't really apply to any other cape comic franchise is that a lot of it is just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks and, when that's what's going on, you're bound to get more shit than stick.

>>81426676
I feel like Marvel writers may objectively be bad people.

>>81428005

>Writers write Cyclops doing something douchey
>NO BRO IT'S JUST A COMIC IT'S THE WRITERS THAT SUCK NOT THE CHARACTER
>Writers write Cyclops not doing something douchey
>YEAH DUDE CYCLOPS IS THE BEST CHARACTER I WANNA BE JUST LIKE HIM HE THE GREATEST

Can't have it both ways faggot

>>81427974
Believe it or not, not everyone thinks the same. A person that hears about the Maddie-Cyclops-Jean triangle wouldn't repeat it back the same. They would either A) look it up B) actually read it or C) work off of interpretations of the post. All three would create a different representation of the events.

>>81428025
I'm not under that misconception at all.
I am PRECISELY aware of what the X-books are and I never follow characters or teams or groups, just writers.
I'll pick up a book to see if it's good, but I'm not enough of a rube to stick with a book if it's writing is shit out of loyalty to a fucking ink blot like half of long-term comics readers seem to end up being.

>>81424964
Same here. Leonardo is my favorite turtle for the same reason.

>>81423947
Incredibly boring? Yes

>>81428095

Two people can come to identical conclusions completely independent of one another.

It has happened before. It shall happen again.

>>81426792
Marvel has amped up the War on Cyclops recently

>>81428124

>Comparing Superman to Cyclops in terms of being boring.

Man, that's not remotely fair on Superman.

>>81428071
yeah you can.

>>81422546
Cyclops isn't evil but he's definitely a humorless dick with zero imagination.

>>81426864
Hello Bendis

>>81422546
Cyclops and Magneto exist in a weird fictional bubble. We like them, because they are proactive and genuinely fight for mutant rights in a world that hates them and tries to make them extinct. That doesn't fit with the mission of the X-Men which is peace and understanding. We as an audience recognize that this is impossible because DRAMA, so we sympathize with Cyclops for being violently protective of mutants. This doesn't fit in with the marvel superhero code, so they are villains. But really, mutants make no sense in the marvel universe. I kinda wish they were spun off into their own universe, because superheroes having respect and admiration, but mutants being hated makes no sense. Writers need them to be hated and feared for DRAMA, but we are left scratching our heads when Cyclops responds to this fairly and is treated as a villain for not being a typical x-man/hero.

>>81428071
I don't need to have it both ways.
The way I just said it is objectively correct and you are objectively wrong; he doesn't have an actual CHARACTER because his character is intensely fluid and written by dozens of people.
What Cyclops has are cool moments in good stories; he has no personality or motives or methods or desires and ESPECIALLY not choices because rather then be consistently written his personality and actions change depending on the needs of the plot.

Just like every single X-Men.
I'm a fan of Cyclops because I like how he acts in certain stories and his storyline in certain plots when his characterization is consistent.
It has nothing to do with what he DOES and everything to do with how he's WRITTEN.

Retard.

>>81428181
It is. Superman is incredibly dull

>>81428025
The only people I ever see that are upset about Wolverine lately are moviefags bitching about "yet another Wolverine focused movie". Before his death Wolverine was getting better. Sure he was still in a billion books and was at the center of an editorial mandated bout of infighting but it was less tiresome. He wasn't popping in unrelated stories to boost their sales like he was at his worst. People had mostly moved on. He was a major player but not THE major player above all others.

>>81428116

I didn't mean you specifically, but that's the right course of action to take. Especially with a team with so many iterations, a constantly revolving roster and sometimes several writers at once.

>>81428240
If you think Superman is boring, you will also think Goku is boring too. And also most of Shounen hero too

>>81428238
>We like them

Speak for yourself, anon.

>>81428249

Man, Wolverine hasn't been Marvel's spotlight stealer since the noughties. People who claim he's still being pushed are either delusional or bitter.

I always thought Cyclops was really, really boring. He was by far my least favorite X-Men - until Marvel started shitting on him constantly. Forced into these elaborate, continually fuck-ups for entirely reasonable decisions he became a much more interesting character.

>>81428289
not that guy but. holy shit hit the nail on the head. i mean i dont even think superman is entirely boring as a character though probably as a person you might know.

that being said goku is boring as shit (post dragon ball at least...when he was a kid he was a blast) and all that other 'get stronger to fight stronger guy then train to get even strongerer again' bullshit is boring as fuck too.

>>81426442
>No one wants to see Superman wash the dishes, call his mother and walk the dog.
Then explain how Lois & Clark lasted for 4 seasons.

>>81428157
It's harder when the conclusion is wrong and the post style is the same

>>81427747
>But he doesn't
But he did didn't he? wasn't that the whole reason he was removed from the team Scott found out he mind controlled the original x-men after their first fight with Magneto?

>>81427872
Why are Wolverinefags such autists? You've been spamming this thread the whole time.

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>>81424493

>>81428372
same reason smallville lasted for ten. idiots will watch anything.

>>81428025
Wolverine is flat out the worst character in Comic Books. I'd rather read Shatterstar.

>>81428555
I doubt they're actually Wolverine fans. The only people that are still fans of Wolverine are normies

>>81428555

It's okay to like Cyclops and it's okay for you to have a differing opinion to someone else, anon. You don't have to be a baby about it and start trying to discredit the opposition.

>>81428297
You're a fucking faggot.

>>81428597
>worst character in Comic Books

Alright, that's way too far. Wolverine's not great but he's far from the worst character in comics. He at least has some good comics and characterisation from before they killed him.

Why so salty?

>>81428612
You'd be surprised. There's a lot of underdeveloped Marveldrones who love that hairy faggot

>>81428664

So, bitter, then.

Years of having their favourite character not be liked by most people has made Cyclops fans extremely salty, defensive and argumentative. The focus of their rage seems to be either Wolverine or Marvel at large.

Hey, Cyclopsfag.

It is I, your arch-nemesis: ANTI-CYCLOPSFAG!

I am the one who has followed you into every Cyclops thread on /co/ over the past 5 years just to make that point about Scott leaving Maddie.

And I shall continue to follow you into Cyclops threads forever.

UNLESS YOU CAN STOP ME!

>>81428712
Oh you memer you

>>81428745
Considering /co/'s comic audience consists of tumblrfags and people too cynical for mainstream forums, I doubt there are many hardcore Wolverine fans that are unable to interact with non-Wolverine fans.

>>81427998
This is a fake from June 2011.

>>81428833

I'm asking a genuine question. Why such a hate-on for a fictional character? I get that some people like him over Cyclops, but relax. I don't much care for Wolverine either and even I can admit he's had good stories.

>>81428827
you dont fool anybody, wolverine-fag.

Cyclops does the exact same thing as Captain America, except without any of the actual charisma to back up his boyscouting.
He's begging for some new thread of characterization

>>81427514
But that was the whole point of making him leader. He isn't a natural one, nor does he want to be, and so when he screws up it's supposed to be interesting. I think he works better as an X-Force Leader or a Headmaster than as a field team leader.

>>81428920
It's gonna be like 10 more years before Marvel hires someone who gives a rat's ass about X-men and not just hiring writers to hash out the same old, same old.

>>81428921

I can definitely buy him leaving X-Force.

Tbh I kind of miss the days when the X-Men were a cohesive unit and Wolverine and Cyclops were fire-forged bros with begrudging respect for one another.

Schism is one of the worst thing to ever happen to X-Men comics.

So basically...

>Scott dates Jean Grey
>Jean dies
>Scott marries Maddie because she looks like Jean
>Jean comes back to life
>Scott leaves Maddie to be with Jean
>Maddie goes crazy and dies
>Scott ignores Jean and flirts with/gawks at Betsy
>Jean ain't havin' none of that
>Scott and Jean get married
>Scott cheats on Jean with Emma
>Jean dies again
>Scott begins ignoring Emma because now he misses Jean

I stopped reading during Joss Whedon's run, but there ya go. Scott in a nutshell.

>>81428920
>cyclops is the same as captain america minus the ass licking he gets from everyone because MUH AMERICAN HERO

I liked cyclops when i was younger but never read the comics until 2 to three years ago and basically only knew of him from the X-men shows and movies where they redid the phoenix story line episode over and over again and cyclops went
>muh jean
it was especially bad in x-men 90s cartoon or was it revolution with the shitty Scott, Jean, and Wolverine love triangle that went on too long.

>>81429001
>Scott cheats on Jean with Emma
wut?

>>81428297
The spotlight stealer now belong to deadpool. Wait until every movie will have deadpool in it.I am deadpoolfag but i will hate Fox if their pull this shit

>>81429123
>deadpool

Nah, Deadpool's a meme at best: he's not a spotlight stealer, he's just a character that pops up all over. Closest thing to a spotlight stealer right now is Iron Man or Captain Marvel, I'd say.

>>81429095

>confirmed for not having read Morrison's New X-Men run

or yer gonna say

>Doesn't count! She totally used her mind powers on him to MAKE him cheat on jean!

>>81429205
ok

>>81429205
>She totally used her mind powers on him to MAKE him cheat on jean!
but under that circumstances it doesn't count as consensual sex and is basically rape.

>>81429001
>>Scott dates Jean Grey
>>Jean dies
>>Scott marries Maddie because she looks like Jean
>>Jean comes back to life
>>Scott goes to new york when warren tells him jean is alive
>scott maintains his distance from jean while he works out his feelings
>by the time scott checks up on Maddie, Maddie is MIA
>>Maddie goes crazy and dies
>>Betsy flirts with Scott
>>Jean ain't havin' none of that
>>Scott and Jean get married
>jean becomes unwilling to work at their marriage despite scott's requests
>>Scott cheats on Jean with Emma
>>Jean dies again
>>Scott breaks up with emma because of the shit he did in AvX

>>81428974
Yeah, Marvel's logic is that they shouldn't bother to help the Fox sell X-Men comics, so they treat the x-men like red headed stepchildren. They aren't as popular as Deadpool, who sells comics easy and Marvel will latch onto that. But they're successful enough that marvel won't put resources into their comics to help the competition. X-Men won't get treated right until Marvel gets those movie rights back. Which ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

>>81429205
Thinking of sex is not cheating. If that was the case, Jean and her sex fantasies with Logan would count too.

>>81429123
He's locked out of the movies set in the 80s so you only have to worry about X-factor/New Mutants appearances

>>81429001
>>Scott and Jean get married
>>Scott cheats on Jean with Emma

This part here got me all bothered up in the 2000s.

Scott had made a lot of headway in not being a fucking piece of shit after he married Jean, mostly trying to atone for all the awful stuff he did to Maddie and Nathan.

So he and Jean go to the future and raise Nathan because Scott feels guilty about abandoning his family and all that. Nathan turned into Cable, so clearly they did a shit job raising him, but at least it proved Scott could feel guilt and wanted to make up for things.

And then Morrison comes along and now Scott's being unfaithful to Jean and turning into a shit head again.

And yeah, Whedon's Astonishing only made things worse, with Jean being dead and now Scott wants to play mopey and treat Emma like shit because JEEEEAAAAAAN!!!

It's always one step forward, two steps back with him when it comes to characterization.

>>81429456
I actually like the fact that he is kinda fucked when it comes to relationships. that jean and him seemed like it should work but it just didn't on both ends. i mean she didnt cheat on him but she sure as shit checked out of the relationship emotionally some time ago.

Shit happens, sometimes it isn't just a cosmic event or tragedy that separates two people.

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Am I the only one who prefers Emma x Cyclops over Jean x Cyclops? Jean always seemed like a two-faced bitch to me with how she'd always flirt between Cyke and Wolverine while pretending to be holier than thou, whereas Emma was kinda a dick but in a way that complimented Scott's straight-arrow personality.

>>81429623
>Am I the only one
No. it is better.

>>81425523
It was like, what, two issues into Louise writing X-Factor that he goes back home so she could fix him being a deadbeat?

>>81429623
Jean should have stayed dead forever. By far the worst character in the entire franchise.

>>81429181
>he's not a spotlight stealer, he's just a character that pops up all over.
... Are you to stupid to understand how words function?

>>81429623
Jean Grey a shit, no matter what incarnation. And thanks to Bendis her young self is shit, her future self is shit and her dead self is shit. And the worst of the worst is he tried to write Scott as a horrible person even though he didn't do anything wrong. He also broke up Emma.

>>81429737
>no matter what incarnation

That's the worst part. Even Evolution Jean is unlikable and uninteresting

>>81429726

He's not stealing the spotlight so much as he is making guest appearances. You wouldn't call Ambush Bug a spotlight stealer -- he's just a guy who interacts with most of the universe he exists in for the sake of comedy.

A spotlight stealer, in my eyes, is someone who is made to be central to everything that conspires within a universe. Deadpool makes appearances, but he's not being forced into shit the same way as Wolverine was or Batman is. He's not becoming the central focus of everything. He's not beating everyone and being made to look like a badass all the time. Therefore he's less of a spotlight stealing character and more of a company-wide joke character.

But that was a clever, petty retort you gave me there.

>>81429856

Not the guy you were responding to, but I want to say I absolutely agree with your assessment. There is a fundamental difference between Deadpool and Wolverine and how they interact and are included in events, and you articulated it well.

>>81429623
Love EmmaxCyke too. Whedon made it work.

>>81430021

Thanks.

Put simply, I always find it's kind of like this.

When Deadpool appears in an event or on a team or in a comic it goes along the lines of:
>Hey, here's Deadpool!
>Deadpool's here as well!
>Deadpool will say a few lines and do a few things.

When Wolverine was at the height of his being pushed, it was more like this:
>OH SHIT NIGGA EVERYONE DROP WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE'S WOLVERINE!
>WOLVERINE IS HERE and so is everyone else too I guess
>LET'S MAKE WOLVERINE AND HIS STORY AS CENTRAL TO WHAT'S HAPPENING AS POSSIBLE.

Take Axis as an example: Deadpool appeared, yes, and he had an important role to play but he was never the main focus of what was happening and his role was both organic and moderated.

Another example is the Uncanny Avengers. Here Deadpool is a central and important character, but he's never given an excessive amount of focus and attention over others and his presence is both organic and moderated.

Compare that to events like Schism where Wolverine was forced into an unnatural role for the sake of his popularity.

>>81429623
I was never particularly that sold on EmmaXScott, but I think a lot of that was Morrison basically resetting her character back to the 80s.

That said, Scott getting a wandering eye becauseJean desperately lusted for Logan all the time made sense.

>>81430605
>I was never particularly that sold on EmmaXScott

Emma is a manipulator, Scott has a position of trust and authority.

>>81430292
Yeah deadpool is kind of type that hard to make event around him . He is a joke character

>>81430292
>Compare that to events like Schism where Wolverine was forced into an unnatural role for the sake of his popularity.

I've never much liked the fact that real world popularity means that the characters get more powerful/popular/important in universe to match.
Like, that was the core argument behind sticking Spider-Man and Wolverine on the Avengers, and it never really felt right with either of them

>>81422697
This makes weird amounts of sense
>Jean/Emma/one of these other redheaded Phoenix avatars comes home after a long day of being plugged into everyone's bullshit
>plops down on the couch next to Cyclops
>the word "red" floats through the general mental area, and then nothing
>Jean/whoever gives a sigh of relief as she feels the mental equivalent of taking off her shoes at the end of a hard day

emma is a whore who is half the psychic jean is, a quarter the teacher jean is, and a sliver of a human being she pretends to be

she does not deserve cylops

cyclops cheating on jean was one of morrison's biggest fuckups.

but we can't ignore what happened. post-cheating on jean cyclops doesn't deserve jean now. him and emma are a match made in hell. but pre-morrison cyclops was right for jean. she might have lusted after logan cock but she never did anything about it. and it's not like scott didn't fuck up with the whole maddie and not rebuking betsy or any other piece of ass that wanted him.

and it's not like emma respects scott, she was got her share of imperius sex behind scott's back

>>81424964
>>81427057
>>81428119
I am a younger sibling and my older bro was the problem child so when I got old enough I was the one who had to look after him.

Then when my little sister was born I also had to look after her in addition to looking out for him.

Being the middle child is suffering.

>>81422546
It's weird, I used to hate him for that stuff too. The fact that he was bland-as-hell helped a lot, just basically having "energy blasts"

But Morrison breathed new life into him and, while they didn't seem to mean to do it, they made him one of my favorite X-men by portraying him as the guy who was just fed up with all the shit people blamed him for over the years and decided to do things right.

Ironically they were trying to portray him as a bad guy, and even Wolverine looked like a huge douche whenever he was set up against Cyclops.

>>81428597
thank god there's someone else with this opinion. i get fucking crucified for saying stuff like that in my groups

>>81430949
>thank god there's someone else with this opinion.

"hurr wolverine sucks" is the most normie "I'm not a normie" opinion ever.

>>81428240
>>81428181
The point is what Superman and Cyclops have in common is that their respective editorials found them lame and often use them as a punching bag for shilling "cooler" and more popular characters

>>81428920
>He's begging for some new thread of characterization


did you miss that he's been a badass crazy terrorist

>>81428597
People always sound like doofs for saying shit like this.

Not because everyone has to like wovlerine. hate wolverine all you want. But worst character?

thats such a 'ARGHH I DONT LIKE IT AND WHY DO SO MANY OTHERS LIKE IT' attitude that shows how much one is influenced by others likes and dislikes of shit instead of judging shit based on actual quality.

Like hey wolverine is far from the best but i'd take him over adam-x or random any day of the week.

>>81430972
not round here, and it's not hurr durr i hate logan, i seriously think he's one of the worst comic characters, probably since around the middle of his hama book. shit is damaging and bad.

>>81422546
We're aware of this. Sims has really fucking shit opinions regarding the X-Men and Cyclops specifically to the point of irrationally believing that attempts to make him interesting are pointless because he's a faggot who hates every character that's not Batman, Superman or some ~WACKY~ Z-list Silver Age DC villain.

>>81429623
Jean was a bitch. She always tried to cuck Scott with SniktBub.

>>81430849
Apparently it's something like that, but not at all in that context.
It's not that he's so boring that he's easy to be around; it's that his mind is so disciplined that his thoughts aren't constantly bouncing around his head to be stepped in like muck by any passing psychics.
This is honestly probably something Xavier taught him; he spent so much time taking orders from a guy who would literally project them into his brain that he had to learn to make his thoughts orderly so they could be quickly read so Xavier could give out orders quickly and Scott could follow through.

Basically, it's that his sense of self-control applies to his brain as much as it applies to his person, and this is very appealing to psychics because nobody else "polices" their own thoughts for garbage.

>>81429623
no it's the superior ship.

>>81430972
>normie defending his greasy hairy husbando

Slash your fucking throat bendis

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All I know is, I love how Jack drew Cyclops. And the X-Men in general. I really wish he'd taken to this book more, it's a shame to see him at his best leave after a dozen issues or two.

>>81431061
The entire Marvel Universe revolves around Wolverine. It would be objectively better without him.

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>>81431260
I don't know what he's doing back there in that middle panel but I'm into it.

>>81431260
The original run was a sales failure and no one believed on the project, except Stan Lee for some reason.

>>81431284
But we need him back so we can have interesting and empathetic drama like a 250 year old man struggling to deal with his angst about how he wants to bone a 17 year old girl.

>>81430888
Bendis get off 4chan.

Jean should've stayed dead.

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>>81431307
His women were underrated too.

>>81431321
That's a shame. I think it has a lot of charm.

>>81431284
Yeah all those spider-man and dr. strange and fantastic four and namor and guardians of the galaxy books that are all about wolverine. except hes pretty much mostly just in some x-books and occasionally on an avengers team.

>>81431321
Speaking of Stan and the X-men

http://www.jimshooter.com/2011/08/more-strange-tales-stans-advice-re-name.html

>Stan and our West Coast rep had wangled an opportunity to pitch an X-Men cartoon show to one of the networks. To Judy Price at CBS, I think.

>The question was this: which X-Men team to pitch?

>Stan had been out of touch with most of what had been going on in the comics for a long time, and he didn’t know much about the New X-Men. Sol Brodsky had brought him the presentation boards. They didn’t have names on them, but Sol had also equipped Stan with a list.

>Stan looked at the images of the New X-Men, then at the list. Cyclops, he recognized, of course.

>“This one,” he said, pointing at Storm, “must be Banshee.”

>“No, that’s Storm,” I said. “Here’s Banshee.”

>“Jim, don’t you know that banshees are female?”

>“Yes, but, you should take that up with Roy. He created this guy a long time ago.”

>“Roy?!” Stan had that look of horror and incredulity you get when you discover that the guy who’s been doing your taxes can’t add or subtract.

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>>81430888
Yeah, Emma's a dominatrix.
That entire fucked up relationship has to be viewed through that fact.
Every time she makes a little snarky remark or undermining contribution that's just her fucked-up way of saying; "Love you."
( ... only more British.)
It's not that she doesn't respect him, it's that she most respects how much he can endure and not lose his core heroic nature. That's expressed in a very different way from normal people respect.
And frankly, Scott has always responded well to a challenge, so it's not entirely out of character for him to like that sort of thing.
Disgusting, I know.

>>81424259
I gave up on him when he did a big apology piece over accidentally triggering an sjw over twitter or some shit. I was feeling dirty giving Comic Alliance hits anyway.

>>81431410
>( ... only more British.)

I miss when she was just an old money Brahmin type.

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>>81431403
>“Roy?!” Stan had that look of horror and incredulity you get when you discover that the guy who’s been doing your taxes can’t add or subtract.
I don't necessarily agree, but I can't help but laugh at this.

>>81431245

I don't care, I'm just telling you that hating Wolverine isn't some revolutionary new opinion that you're breaking the mold by sharing. Normies talk about how much Wolverine sucks all the time. It's a bandwagon.

>>81431284
>The entire Marvel Universe revolves around Wolverine

Go back to 2008, Doc.

Seriously, when was the last time you read a fucking comic? Wolverine hasn't been Marvel's pushed character since the MCU took off.

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>>81431130
>"disciplined"

Damn right it is.
But the first psychic he ever encountered wasNOT Chuck Xavier. It was Mr. Sinister.
People forget that when his parents' personal airplane got blown up scott spent a year or so in a coma and when he woke up he was shipped off to Mr. Sinister's orphanage.
And the weirdest part is that he was already a hard-core level of disciplined when he woke up from that coma. No wonder Sinister's always been fascinated by Scott.

You know if Wolverine didn't exist, people still wouldn't give a shit about Cyclops.

>>81431607
The sheer delusion you Wolverine faggots have is breathtaking

>>81431696

You're a literal toddler.

>This thread

Every so often I am given a painful reminder of the fact that I share this board with manchildren and basement dwellers incapable of stringing an argument together or having an intelligent discussion without chimping out because someone thinks Optimus Prime is better than Megatron or some other shit.

>>81431794
Optimus Prime IS better than Megatron.

>>81422546
>It's one of the strangest things I've seen in fiction.
Really? Because it has happened a handful of times in cape comics alone, in the same direction or as a heel-face turn. You know, like Magneto.

Cyke becomming villainous could have been a good idea nonetheless, and could have certainly made him a more interesting individual than a moderator, which while valuable to a team, certainly isn't that engaging to read about as an individual.

>>81422558
You know why I resent the whole treatment of Cyclops in the last few years, really? It created Rightclopsfags, and you guys are annoying as fuck.

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>>81431912

FUCK YOU

>>81423947
Cyclops was never really about do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, more like do the right thing because it's what the professor told us to do. He's a disciple, not a master.

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>>81431410
>Every time she makes a little snarky remark or undermining contribution that's just her fucked-up way of saying; "Love you."
>( ... only more British.)

>British

You mean Bostonian right, luv?

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>>81422546

>>81426115
Do you really believe that? People love gruff assholes who play by their own rules.

>>81431695
I don't think Marvel and the fans really hate Cyclops that much, think about it: he's never been killed off before.
By my count Prof X has died four times, Wolverine twice if you don't count healing factor saves, Cap America has two deaths too, I'm not counting the Jean deaths, Punisher has died twice, Magneto had three at least, Iron Man and Thor(ManWhor) both died once, and I'm sure I'm undercounting here. And not all of those were just to bump sales.
Clearly, there's a recognition that Cyclops is a core aspect of the X-Men mythology.
Just because they're writing a lot of harsh stories for him over at Marvel, you can't think that means they don't care. Spiderman has had the crap kicked out of him forever and it's generally understood that all of Marvel loves that character.

>>81432078
This is very true.

>>81432078

Wolverine's not even really that aggressive or standoffish to his friends. He's usually just a manly man who likes to drink and smoke and shit and he's insanely loyal to and protective of the people he cares about because he's a good boy, yes he is, he's a good boy.

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>>81432053


>>81432078
Really? Thats like the most used trope.

>>81431342
Basically Twilight for guys

>>81432109

>Hate

I didn't say hate, man, I just said they don't care. Which is true.

>>81432142
Go and get some friends who aren't autistic, man, people love assholes. They're entertaining. Can't handle the bantz, get out of the squad

>>81422546
Cyclops is an ass and a shitty leader. That never grew out of being an ass or a shitty leader. And not a shitty leader that has horrible idea or doesn't know what to do, a shitty leader that fails to understand his team in any since beyond how they can achieve his goals and at inspireing or explaining to his team why those goals should be met. At least that is how he is pretty consistently written.

Take another team leader like Captain America it's not just him in the field barking orders he inspires people to fight for him. He takes the time to explain before hand why what he's asking them to do is important and what it means if they fail. Now you may say comparing leadership to Cap isn't fair he's supposed to be that way that's his role. Hey, maybe you're right.

Take Leonardo, from the ninja turtles. Pick a series or movie and chances are he starts off almost exactly like Cyclops. Why is he in charge? Because the boss said he's in charge. Why should the team follow his orders? Because the boss put him in charge. And for awhile that's enough for Leo but it rubs almost everyone the wrong way. Then him and Raph have a fight (usually physical) and after that Leo reveals he struggles as a leader. He makes amends with his team and leads better after that.

Cyclops is a tactically capable person. And when he was lieutenant to Xaviers captain. things ran smoothly or smoother. When Cyclops grew up and was more of a direct leader and started making more long term decisions he never developed the desire or need or found it necessary to take the people he was leading into consideration. And that is usually why he comes off like an ass.

>>81432139
My favorite issue of the X men was when Wolverine takes Colossus to bar to whip his ass after he hurt Kitty.

>>81427214
The thing with AvX is that it painted everybody as assholes, but Cykefags took exception to it because Clops ended up losing.

>>81432302

Cykefags have always had a victim complex, though. All it is is whining about how Marvel hates their husbando and how Wolverine is the worst thing to ever happen to comics and how Cyclops is literally the most interesting character ever and how everyone is a Loganfag.

>>81427514
Wolvie's supposed to be an uncle, not a dad.

Put trip on, Phoenix Egg.

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>>81422546
You know what, I see Cyclops as an abused child.
He's the kid who has had horrible things happen to him non-stop for his entire life and who everyone comes to believe deserves every bit of it and more, because if he doesn't deserve it then there's no such thing as justice in the world.
So I'm happy for him that he died.
He has had a truely miserable life and the best he can hope for is that it has all finally ended.
Let's face some hard truths: the only joys he ever got were doing good as an X-Man and being with his one true love, Jean.
Those days are past. He's the face of X-Men failure and Jean's long gone. He had nothing worth living for anymore.
Death was the best thing for him.

>>81428920
He's way less of an strong-minded individual than Cap. Cap has gone AWOL a half dozen f times at this point for having conflicting points of views with other Avengers or other authorities.
Half of Cyke's ideas have been pretty directly put into him by Xavier.

>>81432212
That was a good story.
Juggernaut really needed that win after the whole Spiderman thing he had just gone through.

>>81431260
Yeah Kirby's art on early X-Men was pretty great.

>>81432594
Really? The guy raised since childhood in the compound run by the charismatic mind controlling "Charley" doesn't have a single independent thought in his head?
Wonder why that is...

>>81432654
Indeed. That Spidey shit was embarrassing.

>>81432139
Well yeah, your classic roughneck with a heart of gold.

>>81432142
Tropes get used for a reason.

>>81432196
Yeah Cyke is made to be mostly a field leader, Xavier was the ideological and even emotional leader for the longest time.

>>81426442
>No one wants to see Superman wash the dishes, call his mother and walk the dog.
Literally the best parts of Superman.

>>81432755
I literally said
>Half of Cyke's ideas have been pretty directly put into him by Xavier.
I'm not saying you should blame Cyke for not being a strong-minded individual, because that would be retarded, I'm saying the weight of his leadership is entirely different from Cap's because of that reason.

>>81432196
You make some really good points.

>>81432030
And a ching chong to you too betsy-chan

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>All this Cyclops love

This is the only place on the internet that still has a bastion of taste.

>>81433098
And I'm saying that there's no leadership at all from Scotty.
By the very definition of leadership his efforts simply have never qualified.
He's a tool, literally, for Charley X to manipulate into doing the hard work of heroics. Everything he does is with the singular mindset of accomplishing the goals set before him. That single-minded determination would be an amazing act of willpower if these were his own ideas and not those of the powerful telepath that tells him what to do with his life.
Summers might not even have the free will anymore to live his own life as he would wish, as a matter of prolonged brainwashing.
Creepily, even his desire for Jean Grey can be called into question when you consider that Mr. Sinister so wanted that breeding that he made a Jean clone to get it done.
So what was Scott Summers' choice, if there ever was one?
And can any of that really ever be called leadership?

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>>81428030
I feel this way too. The deeper a hole they dug Cyclops into, the more he appeared to be the most sincere character of not only the X-Men but most of Marvel's characters. Certainly more than characters like Medusa who seems to be a massive bitch even when all she wants is the best for Inhumans.

Because Cyke wanted everyone to be harmonious. Medusa wants Inhumans to rule, bitch even calls herself a queen. Cyke only did something similar and even then he owns up to it, doesn't even fucking blame the bloody phoenix.

Marvel's only choice was to literally bury him and then have everyone piss on his damn grave, even the people who sided with him.

Fucking wankers. Don't even get me started on Beast and the furry, bara, wankfest they treat him as.

>>81432586
If only Cyclops was allowed to die for real.
If only cape comics were about telling stories instead of nostalgia pandering and continuity fanwanking

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>>81427179
>this strawman

>>81432327
Except all of that is true.

>>81433368
We love you too, anon. Anyone who likes Rightclops is a friend of mine.

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>>81429623
Emma x Scott is loads better than Jean and Scott.

>>81433486
Might be a cool story to tell when Cyclops inevitably comes back. However he ends up being resurrected, he doesn't have that psychic manipulation. No longer having his leadership drive, his love of Jean or his "organized mind" he finds himself trying to fit into the role of a member of the team instead of the leader while his "classic" love interests are uninterested in him.

>>81433486
You can be a leader without being an ideological and emotional leader. Happens all the time in paramilitary operations, which the X-Men happen to be.

I think you misunderstand what a leader is, a good soldier can be a leader, it doesn't have much to do with whether it's his ideal he's leading for or not. Leadership is not really about making choices, or at least not only about that.

>>81431794
So who do you support in this case then man

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>>81432327
>didn't know Cyclops was dead
>look into it
>find this:

>The X-Men also gained a new member today, as "All-New X-Men" #1 from Dennis Hopeless and Mark Bagley introduced readers to Pickles. The tiny blue creature is actually a Bamf, a race of inter-dimensional creatures with the same features and teleportation powers as Nightcrawler. We meet Pickles in "All-New" #1 when Beast needs to transport his camper to Chicago.
>Hopeless has spoken of his fondness for the new character before. During the New York Comic Con X-Position interview, he said: "Pickles is my favorite character -- 100%. All of the characters are going to interact with Pickles because, number one, it's my favorite thing for Mark Bagley to draw. Like, I kind of just want to make Pickles in every scene -- the background of every scene -- so Mark has to do something with him. But, yeah, he plays a big role in the first arc and we'll be developing relationships with Pickles and everyone."

Why

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>>81432586
>You know what, I see Cyclops as an abused child.

I think this is why he and Magik worked so well that even Bendis couldn't screw it up. Two people with fucked up childhoods trying their best to function as adults in an even more fucked up world.

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>>81433772
please be an april fools joke

>>81433822

It's an article from December

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/new-x-men-issues-hint-at-cyclops-final-fate-introduce-tiny-teammate

>>81433368
>>81433594
My Brothers!

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>>81433643
I doubt they'll do that, they had the "broken man" story after he had Apocalypse in his brain. And the master strategist thing in an innate ability as an extension of how his mutant mind calculates angles and trajectories for ricocheting optic blasts, so they can't have him not have that anymore.
But it would be nice to see Scott free of all influences once and for all. Xavier is too much of an ass to actually still have his manipulation-free respect.

>>81433678
Tactical leadership is one thing, it's pretty much number crunching the odds of any given situaton on the fly, ideological leadership is an entirely different thing that I don't think can be done without independent thought. That's what I don't think he has.

>>81433956
It wouldn't be the strategy that he lacks but need to be at the front of the group. That little extra push to be the one to stand up and say "I'm Cyclops and I speak for the X-men" wouldn't be there.

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>>81433801
You say that and it makes perfect sense, BUT Wolverine has almost the same exact backstory of misery and death in The Great White North and Wolverine has always wanted to murder Scott Summers, I mean he outright HATES Cyke on a deep and profound level.
So I chalk Magik up to his good old nice-guy charisma with the ladies.

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>>81434098
Wolverine is a lot farther removed from his childhood than either of them plus he didn't even remember it for the majority of the time they spent together. By the time that he did they had fallen into their routine. By comparison Scott knew Illyana before and after her trauma and Illyana has always been receptive to a strong father figure that was on outs with the mainstream good guys

>>81433956
>Tactical leadership is one thing, it's pretty much number crunching the odds of any given situaton on the fly, ideological leadership is an entirely different thing that I don't think can be done without independent thought. That's what I don't think he has.
That's fair, I'm just saying that calling Cyclops out for not being a leader at all is wrong, he's just not that type of leader.

>>81434098
Eh not really. Most of the time the hate seems to boil down to fucking Jean, they have plenty of instances of at least respecting each other despite the whole thing.

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>>81426233
Morrison loves Scott, too.

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>>81433772
Bamfs are awesome. Little interdimentional nekkid Nightcrawler copies who infested that Wolverine school like nostalgia infused cockroaches.
Naming one "Pickles" is going too far but the use of one as a teleportation battery is classic Beast science ethical slippery slope win.
Now if only that book would have the same level of fun zany crazy that "Wolverine and the X-Men" had...

>>81428025
>The fact is Wolverine became popular because so many X-Men and X-Books were just flat.

Wolverine became popular because John Byrne took it as a personal mission to give Wolverine as many cool shit to do as possible. Before that he was the token asshole on the team and that was it, nobody liked him.

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>>81432004
Bullshit.

>>81434636
Are you sure? Because there's a whole school of thought that the reason Wolverine started flirting with Jean in the first place was just to piss Scott off.

>>81434636
>>81434751
Wasn't Scott the only one to stand up for Wolverine when everyone else wanted to kick him out one time?

>>81434702
Yeah because that trumps 40 years of characterization of Slim as Xavier's good soldier.

>>81434751
That seems retarded. They're portrayed as attracted to each other even in realities where Scott is absent from their lives.

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>>81434897
That was when enough of Xavier's bullshit built up to warrant throwing him out. It was time for Cyclops to step up.

>>81434682
Yeah, but that was unavoidable.
If they had left Wolverine as the two-dimentional asshole on the team the fans would have never stopped griping. And back in those days the fans griped with snail-mail, just opening all that was grief.
And of course they overshot because if they had only done one redeeming story there was good chance that many fans would just miss that issue and the hate would continue.
Meanwhile, Cyclops is still the straight arrow professional that he was written as from (not giant sized) issue #1. He was the product of the comic hero morals of the time. And that's characterization without depth.

>>81434702
A: Jeezus! I had forgotten how bad the art was in that book.

B: He's still acting in the moral upstanding superhero manner that the Professor instilled within him, just because Xavier himself is the one that those morals dictate Scott stand up to doesn't mean that he's not acting as a placeholder for the Professor's own espoused ideals.
Don't forget what an absolute hypocrite Professor X is.

>>81435249
Okay but was it Professor X who was a hypocrite or was it one of the evil Professor X inter-dimensional clones they talked about in Exiles?

Personally I always liked Professor X being the "kind of a dick but ultimately lawful good" kind of mentor...

>>81434897
Between time spent dead, time in space fucking his space wife, and time kicked off the team for being a dick, how much time has Xavier really even spent bossing Scott around?

>>81435249
I got annoyed with "mean hypocrite Xavier", because 90% of it is promoted by a man who hates him because his waifu said "Professor Xavier is a Jerk" in the first X-comic he ever read.
Xavier was always shown to be saintly but still flawed, then they later decided to make him a secret by hypocrite mind-tyrant likely for the exact same reasons that Cyclops is villified; he's an authority figure of some kind.

It's weird how X-book writers want the X- Men to all be badass rebels when they themselves are usually old fans jumping onboard what must be the single largest, most popular, and most generic comic franchise of all since the late 80's came along.

>>81435321
>Personally I always liked Professor X being the "kind of a dick but ultimately lawful good" kind of mentor...

I always saw him as very Picard-like (way before he was cast in that movie; blame me reading X-Men and watching the show at the same time as a kid); maybe flawed, maybe prideful sometimes and definitely stern, but he cared for his kids like they were his own family and at heart he deeply wants to make the world a better place, even if the world sometimes resists it.

>>81435357

I think it's just what you get with the quality of writers for superhero comics nowadays. They're fans writing fanfiction of fanfiction of an original idea. God help us what comics will be like 20 years from now.

>>81435410
I remember an early 90s issue with flashbacks to his romance with Amelia Vought where the crux of the drama was him losing her out of commitment to the 'School' idea, and then becoming horrified when he tries to force her to not leave telepathically.

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>>81435338
He was the first student. By a good period of time. During his formative years.
If you ever read a comic with some of those early flashbacks the creepy factor is self-evident.

>>81435418
I've always WANTED to write for Marvel and DC but always was deeply opposed to fan-fiction personally since I've always felt it's like playing with someone else's characters which always felt wrong to me.

So instead I've never even tried to get into writing comics and focused on other stuff since I know that that inherent conflict in my would fuck up my ability to write them.

>>81435456
>early 90s issue
So the period where X-Men took over Marvel and the author that made them what they were left and the subsequent successes making Marvel make shitty market choices leading to the Comics Crash and thus indirectly to literally every problem wrong with modern comics?

That era of X-Men?
Because while I'm nostalgic for the simplicity of the 90's, I don't put on rosy glasses and tell myself everything was better just because I was stupider and less aware of the consequences of everything that was happening.

>>81435467
I think they started picking up the other O5 pretty quickly, though.
Xavier was creepier with them- he completely erased Hank's existence from the minds of anyone who ever knew him.

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>>81435357
Brubaker was the one who wrote the Vulcan story, so it wasn't like Whedon was making all this shit up on his own.

>>81435357
>generic

Tell that to poor now-gay Iceman.
(And I really can't believe you posted that given that Superman is still published.)

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>>81435542
Yeesh.

>>81435542
Was thinking Bendis, not Whedon. Xavier was absent with Whedon.
And Brubaker Xavier's choice I kinda get; it's shame and failure and loss making him want to forget what he assumed was something he could never undo, the death of what amounted to his oldest and beloved son's brother.
Obviously a huge mistake, but one he did because he wanted to spare Scott to some degree.
Though Brubaker should really stick to street-style/espionage books, X-Men are a total waste of his talents.

Also, your page kinda proves my point. The entire REASON Xavier's evil side manifests as a semi-real being such as Onslaught (aside from his thoughts almost literally carrying weight) is because he spends so much effort to DENY himself negative emotions and feelings.
If he indulged in them regularly then there'd be no such thing as his evil side.

In other news; Jesus Christ Claremont was increasingly obvious about his fetishes.

>>81435526
You got a point there. I didn't even know(remember?) that. Holy Gozer WTF?
And he erased Jean's telepathy, Team #2's existence and death on Krakoa, the DangerRoom's self-awareness, lord knows what from Magneto's brain, his own id (funny story: it came back), I wanna say Iceman's gay-ness too...
Is he the X-Men's greatest villian?

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>>81435687
>Xavier was absent with Whedon.
Only because Scott punted his ass after the Danger mess.

Kitty is pretty much every writer's waifu since they grew up with Claremont's X-men.

>>81435687
Yeah, damned shame Bendis doesn't have fun fetishes like that. He might have fans if he did.

>>81435690
>I didn't even know(remember?) that. Holy Gozer WTF?
It was at Hank's request, because Hank was the most ashamed of being a mutant out of the O5 (which is the reason why he tried to 'cure' himself and just ended up furry)

>>81427179
It's almost as if differentbpeople like him for different reasons. That's so weird, right?

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>>81435547
>And I really can't believe you posted that given that Superman is still published.
Superman sold significantly less then every single X-Book in the 90's.
Seriously, I saw commercials to go but X-Men comics on TV after school back then, and NO such ads for Superman or Batman were around.
>>81435648
Yeah, Claremont pretty much had zero self-control.

>>81435742
>Kitty is pretty much every writer's waifu since they grew up with Claremont's X-men.

Like Raven and Starfire for Teen Titans watchers. And just as fucking annoying.

>>81435859
At least Kitty has more than one storyline that gets repeated every time she gets important again.

Fucking "Raven gets turned evil again" episodes.

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>>81435742
And Whedon's fave character was Kitty, which goes to show you that writers don't have to hate a character to kill them off.
It's not like Morrison's run with him openly hating on Magneto, fucking up his character motivations, and ultimately giving him a bastard' death.

So when Marvel hurts Cyclops you know it's not out of hatred.

>>81435952
Whedon's one of those few writers who is fully capable of killing characters he enjoys writing and is willing to do so quite frequently if he feels the story needs it. Often he does so in abrupt or tragic ways too.
Whatever asshurts /co/ does or doesn't have with him, nearly all of their most beloved authors have repeatedly proven to be completely incapable of doing that, so that's actually kinda impressive.

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>>81435782
Still. Beast's wrongness isn't contagious. That was a major breach of telepath ethics.
Not to mention contrary to the whole cause.
He could have just done mutant outreach.

>>81424493
Ditto.

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>>81436018
Agreed. But will the "Death of Cyclops" story be that kind of respectful?

>>81427178
I'm pretty sure you're a particularly butthurt and sandy femanon who shitposts about Cyke every chance she gets on Youtube.

You pulled that shit in a listing of best X-Men that didn't have Cyke in it... the best part is that all the comments were asking where Cyclops was at.

Emma raped Cyke and Jean mentally forced him into staying with Emma. Fuck your sjw views.

>>81436119
Probably not, no.

>>81435690
>I wanna say Iceman's gay-ness too...
No. We ALL know his gayness is a product of Jean's telepathic tampering. No if ands or buts.

>>81436155
> No ifs, ands, or butts?

Poor poor unsatisfied Bobby... Nobody will ever accept him...

>>81436123
Please keep your personal feuds off of public boards.

>>81436189
Stop it Jean. Get off of 4chan and go back to half-assedly protecting a world that hates and fears you.

>>81434098
>I mean he outright HATES Cyke on a deep and profound level
That's just the writers fucking up big time, as usual.

Before, Cyke and Wolverine were rivals and almost never saw eye-to-eye (har), but at least they respected eachother on a basic level and knew they could rely on eachother when shit got real. There was a ton of characterisation in their relationship that had built up over the years, but that was all throw overboard for ridiculous reasons, just to create fake drama for Schism.

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>>81436146
They did a passable job on the "Death of Wolverine" book. Almost no fail there.
And there's got to be a few Cyke fans on Marvel payroll who will see to it right.

>>81428372

People watched it for the Lois & Clark romance, hence why the people lost all interest once they got hitched.

>>81436155
That's the headcanon >we are going with, yeah, but that's not much. I wouldn't put it past some hack to write that Xavier originally made Bobby straight.

>>81429456
>And then Morrison comes along and now Scott's being unfaithful to Jean and turning into a shit head again.

Sure, let's forget he had spent months merged with Apocalypse which was established to have had an effect to his mind, which in turn made him question a lot of his life decisions. Then there's pressure to be this perfect embodiment of Xavier's ideas to the new students as the school became public that certainly didn't help either. And his feeling that the marriage was kinda stale after all the crazy shit he'd been through certainly played no part to it either.

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>>81436275
I'm not saying it's a bad characterization, there's some peoplewho will always just rub you the wrong way, you know?
I figure that's the Scott/Logan dynamic. And it rings truthy that in a cast as large as the X-Men there's going to be two Alpha males that can't stand each other.
And even if that wasn't the original plan and even if that was built up in the writer zeitgeist organically and thoughtlessly, it's still a perfectly legit way for two characters to interact without it being bad writing.

>>81436275
Back when Cyke came back from being fused with Apocalypse, Wolverine told him he would've followed him to the gates of hell.


It really fucking annoys me how everyone isn't even logical in their hatred of Cyclops.

-Cyke didn't left Maddie for Jean, she didn't touched her until well after Maddie had gone missing and evil.
-Cyke is an evul bastard for being the target of Psylocke's flirtations... yet Jean is a SAINT and in no way in the wrong for making out with Wolverine every other issue and then gossiping with Storm about it.
-Cyclops got fused with Apocalypse, came back far darker and had trouble with Jean. Went to Emma for therapy.
-Jean made out with Wolverine in the same Morrison run and no one gives her shit, yet Emma abuses her position and Cyke's instability to force a PSYCHIC affair.. he was mentally raped and somehow he's the bastard.

-Jean dies, again. Then Emma throws herself at Cyke and he rejects her, but Phoenix psychically FORCES him into that relationship because otherwise bad future #34 happens. Despite being mentally forced into a relationship with the woman who mentally raped him, he's still the bad guy.

Seriously, what the ever loving fuck.

>>81434841
>Scott stood up for Wolverine

huh, well damn I guess Scott isn't always right after all.

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>>81436458
But it is bad writing if you just throw out everything just because you want to create some more soap opera drama.

Seriously, Schism was the beginning of the end for the X-Men franchise. Not that there weren't plenty of bad X-Men stories before, but Schism set up the entire mess we're in now, and made Wolverine and Beast into hypocritical assholes by having them ignore decades of backstory for the sake of a petty grudge.

They never really got along well because of their conflicting personalities and common love interest and frequently came to blows (usually over Jean), but they almost always respected eachother as teammates and sometimes even as sort-of friends.

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>>81436363
Fuck leaving it at that, Professor X was such a bastard it's in keeping with his character to "nudge" all five of his original X-Men in order to make them more palatable to the general public.
I've been pushing the brainwashed perfect little soldier Cyke line for half this thread. Because I headcanon believe.

>>81436512
>-Jean dies, again. Then Emma throws herself at Cyke and he rejects her, but Phoenix psychically FORCES him into that relationship because otherwise bad future #34 happens. Despite being mentally forced into a relationship with the woman who mentally raped him, he's still the bad guy.
To be fair, literally only Jean knows about this.

>>81436629
No, see... We know. And, just like how people who actually read the story know that Cyclops didn't just up and left Maddie, people who read Morrison's run should bloody well know that he didn't just cheat on Jean and traded her for a new (although far more used) model.

>>81436275
When you respect someone on a deep level, you don't try to fuck their wife.

>>81436551
You're drawing a link between the respect of abilities and personal compatability.
I can think that Bendis is the greatest writer since Stan Lee but that doesn't mean that I would want to spend five minutes talking to him about his housecat, or maybe Claremont's writing makes me want to shred every comic I have of his in angry disgust, but I could find him charming in person.
These two things aren't linked. Logan can both hate and respect Scott at the same time.

>>81436688
You do if you're in a soap opera.

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Guys I'm from the Marvel editorial team, could you all just stop talking about Cyclops please?

We are pretty much done driving down that young white male privilege character and we are super hyped for you all to just forget he is a thing and get on board with out new wave of young hip relatable teen characters. We have had the grace to respect his history with the title with a bunch of "Not that guy" references and we admit we may have played it wrong with the young one still being around to confuse the issue but we are fixing that with a couple of soft death and re-births/just a flesh wound sort of thing for that younger one so you wont care anymore when we do actually just shuffle him off the title.

Lets face it he has always been a boring character to write about and he mutant thing wasn't that interesting either, we thought about making him gay but that was already being used for the other boring guy so we are just gunna drop him.

You all on board with that yeh? K? K? K

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>>81436704
That's the point, you clownboat.

As I said, they don't get along on a personal level most of the time, but they usually respected eachother for what they did. Cyke thought Wolverine was an asshole and a loose cannon, but also reliable and able to do what was necessary when others couldn't. Wolvering thought Cyclops was a faggot and a boyscout, but also a good leader and a worthy rival.

You don't just throw that out and go hurr now Logan suddenly totally hates Scott for reasons that are beyond bullshit. Seriously, go read some fucking comics and see how fucking awful everything about Schism is yourself instead of trying to justify that bullshit.

>>81436736
>literally turned into a child soldier by a rich, telepathic jerk
>white male privilege character

Choose one.

I know you're being facetious on purpose, but still.

>>81436688
Let me just ask you: Logan always had self-control issues, right? So even if he feels the same way about the issue as you, can he really stop himself?

Also.. why does everyone try to make the same point about Cyke "not being a leader".

That's basically his middle name. Storm, for example, is a good "give nice speeches" kind of leader. Back when the X-Men were looking for Xavier after Onslaught, they got the shit kicked out of them by some X-Men copies that Cerebro created. Storm gave a nice rousing speech, but Rogue had to step in and actually come up with an attack plan to win the day.

Cyke is possibly the best field commander and strategist. He's even outplayed Xavier. People follow him cause he's right and he's effective.

Who would you prefer to follow, a very charismatic Custer who acts the brave leader but will get everyone killed, or the guy that you may or may not like but who you know is going to win the day for your side?

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>>81436798
sorry you don't seem to understand the basics of double standards, Xavier gets a pass on everything because he was in a wheelchair mkay?

>>81436779
That is just a Godawful lack of understanding for these characters.
The reason you haven't been able to follow the logic of half the X-Stories you've read is because your personal worldview is too shallow.
Fix that about yourself or go read something else.
At the very least stop posting your ignorance here, it's embarassing.

>>81436880
Is it still a wheelchair if it has no wheels?

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>>81436866
Erm the black lady

>>81436890
MY LEGS ARE DEEAAAAAAAAD!

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>>81436882
>gets BTFO because he doesn't know shit
>can't come up with any counterarguments, so just starts hurling insults

>>81436880
Stop wasting everyone's time with your shitposts.
They are as meaningless as the rest of your life.
Or keep it up so that this thread will still be up for me to contribute to tomorrow.
Either way I've had my fill tonight.