"Luthor has no motivation."

So if you hated Luthor, that's cool. His take was different, and he's an autistic little fucker to be certain, but the movie establishes multiple motivations for him and he comes off to me as far more well rounded then someone like Bane or Ronan.

People don't complain about his motivation as much as they do about his plan, which actually didn't make sense and relied far too much on coincidences.

>>81310109
>People don't complain about his motivation

I've heard dozens of complaints that he has no motivation in the film outside of the child abuse thing.

>>81310133
how can someone get this as child abuse instead of making a point?

>>81310133
I've heard people also latch onto his line about his father's childhood.
Having to cheer for tyrants, citing that he sees Superman as one, or potentially one.

Which is only half of it.
Later on noting that "[Superman] bends to my will"

It's not that he wants to solely get rid of the tyrant, but supplant them entirely.
A plan that fails because he contacts Apokolips.

>>81310133
The entire movie is literally both Batman and Luthor being mad at God for things that happened to them in their childhood and trying to get even through beating on Superman

>>81310223
Batman and Luthor as two sides of the same coin is one of the smarter things the movie does, honestly.

Luthor has no motivation if you don't actually listen to a single word he says.

I'm not surprised really, a huge swath of people seem to be under the impression that Batman has been stone cold icing people his entire career instead of just recently due to his paranoia over Superman.

>>81310109
>which actually didn't make sense and relied far too much on coincidences.

Luthor's plan is intricate and laborious to be certain, but the idea that it relied on too many coincidences only works if you think his plan had no contingencies whatsoever, for whatever reason.

Doomsday itself was a contingency.

>>81310062
>Later, Luthor professes that his nihilism comes from the fact that "no heroes came to save him" during his childhood when he was serially abused by his father. This nihilism ties in handily when it's later revealed that Luthor has acted as a herald for Darkseid, seeking to level the playing field by getting rid of Superman and preparing for his eventual invasion. While this is made explicit by the deleted Communion scene, it is heavily implied that he's learned of Darkseid's existence from probing the scouting ship's massive data banks and the conclusion scene when he reveals that Darkseid is coming. This works for two reasons, it brings the Prometheus themes to it's logical conclusion, playing with fire and the hunt for forbidden knowledge, and it sets up the logical conclusion for Luthor's nihilism, acting as a herald for the personification of nihilism itself.

10/10 post anon, great stuff, I'm using this from now on

>>81310242
übermensch fighting god and the whole Frankenstein/prometheus thing were great, fucking pleb.

>>81310205
And this is pretty much Luthor's train of thought in the comics too.

For all his talk about how he wants humanity to achieve more without having to rely on Superman, he's really just salty about him getting in the way of his goal of ruling humanity himself.

File: 1381982130513.gif (778KB, 245x190px) Image search: [Google]

778KB, 245x190px

>>81310223

That's actually not a bad summary, I hadn't thought of that connection before.

>>81310406

this, alfred literally talks about it for 2 minutes 'the fever, the rage, that turns good men cruel'

this film is so deep on so many levels, but I guess it needed more ebin one-liners and quips, fucking plebs man

>>81310223

and then he literally dies because of their sins

>>81310534
What was he hoping to do with doomsday though? Did he think he could control it? Was he expecting Superman to be able to kill it, or for it to kill Superman and then run amok? Was he just so insanely mad a Supes' existence that jeopardizing the world by creating a worse god-like entity to kill the first one seemed like a good decision?

>>81310986
>this film is so deep on so many levels

Let's be honest with ourselves, there are some big glaring flaws with this movie (the editing, Superman being too passive and silent, lack of context or establishment for some scenes in continuity or sequence, to name the biggest ones I had)

But I think it's still getting unfairly shit on for things like "LEX HAD NO MOTIVATION", and I'm happy more people are putting some thought into piecing together those aspects of it that do succeed very well.

>>81310962
Exactly, which is something that I don't quite get with people who say that he's a wildly different take.

He's more manic, more neurotic, but here's the core of Lex there.

>>81311029

he gave no shits, if doomsday killed superman than it would have been great for lex since supes would have failed and if the world had to pay that price so be it

superman actually saves lex from doomsday, doomsday tries to punch lex but supes goes in and stops his hand, nice touch

>>81310986
>this film is so deep on so many levels
tell me how it actually explored any one of its themes. How is it deep.
Oh sidenote...deep isn't mentioning shit that sounds deep. you actually have to dive down into it.

>>81311064

Luthor has a number of contingency plans in this movie to ensure that things go his way in case of random accident, but he never seems to account for the possibility that someone will ACTUALLY catch on to his schemes and go after him.

He relied on Bruce wanting to partner with Lexcorp and didn't have the security in place to prevent Batman from jacking the Kryptonite for himself.

His mercenaries were fitting out with secret Black Ops tech that was pretty easily traced back to him, the only thing saving his ass there was that Swann wasn't going to risk himself by going public.

And instead of being able to win over the Senator when she suspected his real motives, he just kills her. Which still works for his advantage, but someone with some snooping could probably piece that together as well when they remember who sponsored the guy and gave him the wheelchair in the first place.

Luthor just escalates a lot of conflicts into violent conclusions and then doesn't seem to recognize, or more like care, about the consequences as a result.

>>81310027
>disdain for Gods
>loves Prometheus, the titan that gave humanity everything
>throws in with Darkseid, a fucking god

>creates Doomsday because
>stands right next to the obscenely powerful rage monster because

>everything traced back to a rough childhood

Yeah, why try at all when you can just say he's mean and he was abused. That's right up there with "he's just crazy" in terms of depth.

Lex luthors father was abusive.

Ergo lex now hates beings powerful as gods. He is willing to commune with fucking Darkseid alerting him to the presence of earth and possibly sealing earths doom. He then devices a plan to kill Superman while unleashing an uncontrollable monster which he all of supermans power if not more on earth with absolutely no way to stop it. He also has absolutely no way of doing all this while preventing himself from being caught and imprisoned for it.

How is this a character that makes any fucking sense. What is his endgame...superman dies and doomsday destroys the world? Seriously what is his brilliant endgame?

>>81311125
>tell me how it actually explored any one of its themes.

The strongest recurring theme is the idea that people tend to project their own fears and insecurities onto their heroes or figures of authority. It's in how Luthor views both the concept of God and how he treats Superman. It's at the heart of the conflict between Superman and Batman. It's why Superman still feels alienated from the world despite his continued actions for the best of them. It's how the movie is eventually resolved, when the general populace and Batman come to see Supes as just a guy who wants the best for others and is willing to lay down his life for that.

It's ALSO what eventually drives Lex over into insanity when he finds out there IS an all-powerful being out there who is outside of human concepts of morality, power or authority.

>>81310027
>Luthor's proxy war with the CIA
His what? Where are you even getting this? Because Lexcorp PMCs were backing the warlord? And then for no reason at all they murder everyone and leave?

The address this directly in the film. The PMCs were there to kill everyone so that they could pin an international incident on Superman.

>>81311186
>He relied on Bruce wanting to partner with Lexcorp and didn't have the security in place to prevent Batman from jacking the Kryptonite for himself.
I thought he intentionally set it up for Bruce to nab it. He's even got a little smirk when he sees batman took it. He wanted him to take it so he actually had a chance at killing Superman.

I didn't get the mercenary bit at all so I don't know what he planned with that shit.

>>81310205

also the last time Lex didn't have complete power over every single person he met was his abusive father, he just destroys, kills and humiliates everyone he meets who he doesn't like or who goes against him, he can't do that to superman, so he becomes neurotic and his anxiety kicks in, he's willing to do anything just to take out superman

this cocoon lex built around him can't protect him from superman

also he may be trying to justify himself being a massive cunt and just like his cunt father by things like 'power corrupts, got is either all powerfull or allgood, he can't be both' and yet superman is both, lex could have been a solid lad when he got rich and powerful but he's just a mirror image of his dick father, even worse

File: tumblr_nte1ctrk951r2pnjxo1_1280.jpg (551KB, 1280x1280px) Image search: [Google]

551KB, 1280x1280px

>>81310027

Am I the only one that loved the satanic/pagan imagery that rang through out with Luthor? He talks of Gods, demons, and man and basically does a crazy blood ritual to summon/create a monster/space demon.

Also the Communication scene you are talking about that they left out I loved. I see why they left it out, that was good call but it was interesting to see the alien general stephenwolf he was talking to looked like a devil. Reminds me heavily of "Childhood's End" a great sci fi novel that depict the aliens as looking exactly like the way we imagine a devil in western society.

>>81311199
It's horrid characterization, but it describes the average atheist quite accutarely.

I'm torn between hating being given too many details (Marvel) and hating being given too few (DC)

>>81311237
>What is his endgame.

Either Superman is forced to kill Batman and discredits himself to the world, Batman kills Superman, or Doomsday kills Superman.

Either way he counted on the concept of a "superhero" to be killed in its infancy. He didn't count on people rallying around Superman's ideals and image after he died. He didn't plan on Superman becoming a martyr in the process.

>>81311199
>>81311237
>implying he knew about Darkseid before the ending

>>81311199
I think he thought Doomsday would not harm him, what with that blood of my blood shit. I have no idea what made him think that adding his blood would have that effect though. Maybe it was in a deleted scene.

>>81310109
The only thing about his plan that didn't make sense was that somehow Lex knew about Bruce/Bats the whole time, and was using the cripple to manipulate bruce for months. Maybe that can just be explained by Bruce not caring enough to actively check up on him, but it felt extraneous.

The rest of his plan made sense in a Lex Luther super villain logic kinda way, unless you know literally fucking nothing about lex, and expect deep, well thought out characters from a cape movie.

>>81311352

nice catch, even the last scene where batman goes to see him is like something from a horror film, the flickering red lights, batman as the demon

>>81311371

A lot of people seem to think that he discovered Apokalips earlier on in the movie, which makes no sense considering his speech to Superman on top of the tower about "now God kneels before Man"

>>81311418
And his attitude in general.
He thinks he's top shit, which he doesn't at the end anymore

>Movie only makes sense when you include all of the footage cut during editing for the theatrical release
This isn't just a flaw, it's a fundamental defect of the movie.

>>81310027
>The very first thing Superman does in this movie is interrupt Luthor's proxy war with the CIA by deposing of the African Warlord.
But the whole point of that was that Luthor was counting on Superman intervening so that he'd be blamed for inflaming conflicts in the region. Stopped reading right there.

>>81311366
Okay so he planned on just letting an unkillable monster superman run amok through the world and waiting for it to inevitably cross his path while he sits in prison because he took no precautions to prevent this?

>>81311441

Oh yeah and as much as I enjoyed the theatrical release, it stings knowing that with a more competent editing job, it would've been a hell of a lot better.

>>81311441
If there is any truth to that greentext, that's the most retarded thing they coulda done. They shoulda cut the 5 fucking minute justice leage commercial out of the movie instead, and made that a post credit scene, or DVD extra.

>>81311441
>
>Movie only makes sense when you include all of the footage cut during editing for the theatrical release

This isn't true. Luthor knows of Darkseid at the end of the movie. Earlier in the movie he goes through the Kryptonian scout ships enormous archives. You can easily piece it together without that scene.

>>81311470
Not the OP, but I don't recall Luthor ever saying that he intended for that to happen, just that he took advantage of the situation.

I could be wrong though.

File: 1450720982834.jpg (170KB, 717x1114px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 717x1114px

>>81311416

Ya I like that. I want more shit like that. I loved this fucking mess of a movie

I want more

>>81311541
If you know who and what Darkseid is. If you don't, you have no idea what Lex is babbling about. Same thing with the parademon dream sequence with the apokalips furnaces and the Flash time portal/boom tube thing. They all make no sense to the uninitiated.

>>81311541


You and I, people who know about how the DCU functions from the comics, know exactly what Lex is talking about when he talks about evil gods among the stars, and what Batman was seeing in his Knightmare vision, or what was going on when Flash pops out of the Speedforce.

But most viewers didn't even know that was Flash, don't know what parademons are or what that big Omega symbol and firepits mean , and think Lex's speech is just vague foreshadowing that contradicts his earlier characterization.

Some posters have overdone it by claiming that this is a movie for "TRUE FANS" of DC comics, but it's definitely true that people who already know about and care about the DCU have an easier job following the movie and accepting some of its leaps of logic, rather than people who are new or unfamiliar with it.

>>81311484
I'm sure he has a few smaller kryptonite weapons somewhere in his lab. After all, he did have smaller fragments and pievces that didn't come from the massive nugget.

>>81311638
>>81311638
Same here. I'm actually kind of excited for Justice League now.

And fuck the haters, I LOVE the idea of Batman being the one to track down and recruit the other League members.

>>81311643

good, I want more comic book films to be like that, fuck the normies, let them be confused

>>81311603
He doesn't need to say it, you get the obvious impression he's playing everybody. There's no reason for Lex to be involved with that scene unless it was part of his master plan.

>>81310027
lol looks like idubbbs

>>81311484

as I said before, the world is a small price to pay if superman is humiliated in front of the masses, lex is willing to risk humanity just so superman could fail

can't get any more lex luthor than that

>>81311680
>fuck the normies, let them be confused

It makes it tough for me to recommend it for other people though

>yeah this movie was fucking awesome, but you should probably read these dozen comics first to get some of the references

For as much as some people bitch about the MCU, it's nice to get an isolated, coherent study of Marvel characters that fit in two hours that people can treat as a movie without worrying about background comic knowledge. It's why I fucking love MCU Cap.

This movie has a steeper point of entry.

>>81311484
I believe the point was that he was so nihilistic that he simply didn't care. He wants to destroy the world if it means Superman dies.

>>81311722
CHECKED

>>81311378

Lex Luthor created Doomsday. His blood courses through it. It's his child in a way.

By creating Doomsday with his DNA, Lex can honestly say that HE was the one to kill Superman. Or he can say his son was. It makes the victory more personal for Lex.

>>81311680
Yeah, comic books movies that have fuck all but the most superficial resemblances to the comic books. I love shitty rehashes of decades old stories with film student tier symbolism in them. That's just what you want to sell to longtime fans: a jumbled mess but the occasional pretty visual that will keep them from thinking about the movie on its own merits. Screw normies.

>>81311745
>It makes it tough for me to recommend it for other people though
I've been recommending it by telling people "If you don't expect the movie to be good, you won't be disapointed. It's enjoyable despite it's many faults"

>>81311745

MCU is basically like Arrow or Flash or any TV show, basic shit, easy entry, you don't even have to watch the previous films just jump on

BvS is literally a shitshow, it's like an actual comic, like it was a Grant Morrison book, and you're starting at comic 5 out of 12, you don't know what the fuck is going or from what year this obscure character is or what the fuck are these assholes talking about, honestly that's why I love this film so much, it's fucking refreshing and new

File: 1457376184419.png (1MB, 2197x1463px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2197x1463px

>>81311807
>I've been recommending it by telling people "If you don't expect the movie to be good, you won't be disapointed.

You can't make this shit up!

>>81311739
Lex Luthor typically wants to be the hero in place of Supes. His plans are usually made with a way to make himself look good once Superman fails.
>>81311761
That still doesn't explain what the fuck he expected doomsday to actually do. He wanted to use it to kill Superman, right. Did he have a failsafe to off it if it wouldn't do what he wanted? If it tried to kill him/run amok? Was he expecting it to attack him too? Was this a suicide attempt?

The issue with Lex's 'deep' portrayal is that

A) We know who Lex is and a lot of that underlying resentment is obvious to us as comic book readers.

B) The film does a piss poor job characterizing Luthor or letting us know that he's got God problems. All we hear is a sentence or two about daddy issues.

>>81311807
I went in expecting a bad movie. I got a worse one. That's a fucking accomplishment.

>>81311872

how would it make him if he stopped doomsday after superman couldn't? I imagine he had all sorts of weapons in his lab (ones with green minerals in them)

>>81311840
>it's fucking refreshing and new

>a piece of shit comic book movie is new

You should get out more.

>>81310027
>The very first thing Superman does in this movie is interrupt Luthor's proxy war with the CIA by deposing of the African Warlord.

Except he reveals it was a ploy to fuck with Superman public opinion.

>>81310027
It's very, VERY clear to anyone who knows the story that Darkseid is coming, and Lex Luthor knows this and is trying to prepare.

>>81311872
>His plans are usually made with a way to make himself look good once Superman fails.

Usually.
Then we have the "Rain of the Supermen" from 52 or Action Comics: The Black Ring

>>81311872
Hey, he could be the one to say he destroyed the world. How many people can make such a claim. It's hard to say what he learned from 10000 planets.

>>81311906

you should stick to marvel movies then

>>81311942
It's VERY clear that he doesn't know until the END

File: LexLuthorClone.jpg (40KB, 300x416px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 300x416px

>Luthor decides to fake his own death by piloting a prototype jet on a proposed trip around the world and crashing it in the Andes; this is merely a cover for the removal of his brain from his cancer-ridden body and the growth of a cloned body around it, whereupon he passes himself off as his hitherto unknown, illegitimate 21-year-old son and heir, Lex Luthor II. His deception is benefited by a vibrant new body with a beard and full head of red hair, as well as assuming an Australian accent as part of his fake backstory.

File: 1402793007063.jpg (14KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 250x250px

>>81311942
>It's very, VERY clear

hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahah

>>81311352
I think it made sense for Luthor, but I got really sick of the heavy ham-handed "Superman is God/Jesus" bullshit very early on. It was incredibly forced and lacked any subtlety, and Superman didn't bother to dispel any of it. Superman is supposed to be a character who exhibits the best traits of Humanity even though he isnt' human, but Snyder's Supes is about as alien as you can get. He reminds me a lot of Dr. Manhattan in how cold and distant he is.

>>81311029
Either.

Superman is all powerful but not good. In this scenario he kills bats, ruins his reputation, but must then be powerful enough to kill doomsday.

Or he is all good, but not powerful. Thus he doesn't kill bats but will die to doomsday.

Either way the 'good god' image will be stripped away. The second scenario played out, meaning superman is all good, but not all powerful.

>>81310986
If anything, I thought it was fairly simple and straightforward.

>>81312008

>movies should be clearly explained to me bawwww
>what is this bullshit about symbolism who needs this bawwwww
>act if I'm retarded and I don't know anything just spell it out for me abloo blooo
>where are the quips tho?

the le good guys get tricked and evil is actually competent? le what the fugg is this shit, I don't want to think in my comic book movies

File: 1307037673587.gif (700KB, 360x203px) Image search: [Google]

700KB, 360x203px

>>81312057
>heavy ham-handed "Superman is God/Jesus" bullshit very early on

Even though the movie makes a point of saying that people who can ONLY see him as a divine figure are wrong?

It's not until Batman sees him as a human being with a mother and a girlfriend who care about him that he changes his mind. It's Lex's inability to see Superman as something other than a Messiah figure that he projects his own hang-ups on that drives him to want to destroy Supes.

>>81312095
trolled you bro lol

Explain me something: Superman has super-senses. It is established he has X-Ray vision, super-hearing and telescopic vision. He also can fly at supersonic speeds.

If Lex Luthor gives him an hour to fight Batman before his mother is murdered, and explicity states that he has no way of contacting his men, and that rather they would contact him to confirm Martha was dead should Superman fail, wouldn't it be far easier it Superman had just knocked down Luthor and used the one hour he had left to case the city for Martha rather than lose time in a fistfight with Batman?

He heard Lois was in danger and got from the Arctic to Metropolis in a span of seconds to save her.

>>81311643
>>81311646
You don't need to know WHO Luthor is talking is speaking of to know that he's referring to a demonic evil. This is made extremely apparent in his speech and by the flipped painting. Come on, give people a little credit.

>>81311300
>The address this directly in the film. The PMCs were there to kill everyone so that they could pin an international incident on Superman.
This is correct. Luthor knew that the senate feared Superman getting involved in an international incident so he created one.

It stems directly from the cannon prequel comics where it is shown Luthor is spying on the senate and learns this information.

/co/ read the prequel comics, right?

>>81311970
Is this it? Is this your come back?

I wanted so bad to enjoy DC cinematic universe. Hell even this shitty movie tried to move into the more dramatic and dense interpretations of the characters. Instead I got visual adaptations of Dark Knight Returns, Death of Superman, a little bit of Justice League from the nu-52 and even some Flashpoint shit.

But without the strong characterization, dialogue and plots from said works.

DKR had great motivation for it's Superman/Batman conflit, in this movie they evoke that scene but fuck it up by either copying straight up the dialogue without the context or giving some utter shit of conversation between the characters.

I am a fuck huge DC fan and see Warner go through the trouble of copying the over the top visuals of the comic books but doing a total shit turd of plot and dialogue really bothered me.

Every fucking frame of that battle was a reminder: "You could be home RIGHT THE FUCK NOW and re-read DKR in less than 2:40 hours".

>>81312137
Luthor said that if he flew off in any other direction, he'd have his Mom murdered immediately. He has absolutely no idea where Luthor has her, how he plans to kill her, or what could tip him off to him not following his plan.

Superman is not about to risk anything to get his Mom killed.

>>81311361
>and hating being given too few (DC)
Personally I'd rather not be spoon fed and I had some 'oh cool' moments in the movies when things clicked.

>>81312175
I actually did, and in there Luthor was a much better written character.

>>81312177
Anon, he's clearly fucking with you.

What was the point of the "White Portuguese" subplot? Batman somehow finds out a ship is coming to Metropolis with an anti-Superman weapon, lies to Alfred about it being a terrorist trying to smuggle a nuke into Gotham, then busts some drug traffickers that Luthor had armed with his easily traceable military-grade weaponry, finds out KGBeast is involved, gets Luthor's data and becomes completely sidetracked from his "Luthor is arming criminals" concerns for brood over Superman.

>>81311415
>The only thing about his plan that didn't make sense was that somehow Lex knew about Bruce/Bats the whole time
Prequel comics showed that Lex has been spying on bats for months.

>>81312199
Which is why he explicitly flew off with the intention of teaming up with Batman and not killing him according to Luthor's directive.

What was Luthor going to do with Doomsday once he killed Superman?

Cool movie, cunts.

>>81312157
>to know that he's referring to a demonic evil.
And why would an alien spaceship grant him any knowledge about demonic evils? For all a casual knows Lex is just raving about more kryptonians lke Zod coming, and that they're for some reason mad Superman is dead. They don't know about all that new gods and parademons shit.

>>81312268
And then they fought for twenty minutes because the movie's called Batman v. Superman.

>>81312177

what comeback dipshit, stick to marvel movies if you don't like this one, it wasn't an insult, no need to write a fucking wall of text lmao no one is reading that

>>81312137
>and explicity states that he has no way of contacting his men
What he explicitly said was that he didn't know where they were keeping Martha, he never said he couldn't contact his men. Also, I'm sure there are plenty of shitholes around Gotham with half an inch of lead paint they could use to hide.

>>81312268
Luthor's directive was that if he didn't fly to Gotham, he'd kill his Mom. Superman flew to Gotham, out of Luthor's direct purview to talk some sense into Batman and get him to help.

Obviously they could've written it more gracefully, but acting like there's literally no logic in Superman's action in conjunction with Luthor's demands stupid.

>>81312057
I see him as distant because he's struggling to maintain his ideals with so much doubt about his motives and the realization that political matters are much more complicated than simple intervention.

>>81312307
So knock him out at superspeed.

And lead doesn't nullify his super-hearing. He heard Zod choking his mom from miles away, he can't hear her heartbeat or breathing?

>>81312244

supes goes in says nigga stop or I'll stop you, if he went out against criminals again supes would rek his tight ass, so he gets suited up and brings his new toys to take superman out

>>81312288

1) he wants superman humiliated and dead, no matter the cost, if the world burns so be it, at least lex did what lex does

2) maybe, just maybe he had some weapons back in his lab?

cunt? mate? mate cunt?

>>81312137
"Go anywhere but to the bat signal, she dies"

Supes couldn't even look in the wrong direction.

>>81312499
He could just take Luthor hostage.

He's a fucking 15-year-old trying to act like a Bond villain. Fuck this movie.

>>81312598
Luthor would love nothing more

IMO

Batman training sequence and Batman vs KGBeasts Crew > Entire MCU movie catalog

>>81311739
No, you can't get LESS Lex Luthor than that.

Lex Luthor hates Superman because he thinks he's usurped Luthor's rightful place as the shining hope of humanity. He thinks that if Superman wasn't around, Lex Luthor would rule the world and usher in a worldwide utopian golden age, but instead he's forced to pit himself against this false alien god who the simple sheep of the world foolishly idolise.

Lex Luthor sees himself as the true hero, the real, human Superman. He believes that he's the one who's really saving the world. The jibbering fucking clown in BvS who unleashes a nigh-unstoppable monster upon the earth because he has daddy issues in no way resembles Lex Luthor.

>>81312598
Then Luthor wins. He wants to show superman isn't all good, or isn't all powerful.

>>81312651

he's just a sad little boy crying about his abusive daddy, honestly it'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

>>81312665
>Batfags

>>81312653
>>81312682
I said take hostage, not kill the guy. Just grab him, disarm him, and either strand him somewhere or tote him around while he searches the city. Hell, he could've brought him to batman and explained how he was playing them both.

>>81312665
>Batman training sequence
Funny you should mention, that was the single most juvenile power fantasy thing I've seen in two decades of cape cinema.

File: bruce-wayne-grin-bvs-161475-161717.jpg (100KB, 655x380px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 655x380px

>>81312751
Dont act like you didnt get hype, son

>>81310027
no character development. he is just crazy like nolan's joker.

>gets his head shaved in prison for no reason

File: Jokerrotj.jpg (125KB, 600x450px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 600x450px

>>81312746

>>81312291
>And why would an alien spaceship grant him any knowledge about demonic evils?

Because that scene serves literally no other purpose otherwise?

>They don't know about all that new gods and parademons shit.

The movie has literal Batdemons show up multiple times and the devils in the painting look extremely similar to them. Give the average moviegoer some credit man, there's plenty of ways to make the connection.

>>81310027
Miscast! Same with aquaman and flash

>>81312901
Some private prisons do this, iirc.

It's not required though.

File: ecac5490e2d9cb52f7a48270b17ac7c810718652.png (347KB, 1011x623px) Image search: [Google]

347KB, 1011x623px

>>81312931
>flash
I think you mean the 'Stache

Also they came up with an awesome reason for him to become bald. He goes to jail where of course they always shave your head. That totally always happens and makes perfect sense just like the rest of this GREAT MOVIE!

>>81312991

A lot of prisons do it for hygiene, or just to exert authority and control over the inmates.

File: Aquapan.jpg (21KB, 317x627px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 317x627px

>>81312931
Jason Momoa is a good fit for the JLtas version of Aquaman. I'm not really impressed with their Flash yet, but it's hard to have an opinion when he's not even had a full minute of screen time. I'm not even going to try defending Lex.

File: wpid-wp-1445988878522[1].jpg (118KB, 800x1280px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 800x1280px

>>81310062
>Justice League pt 1
>Superman has alredy risen.
>He talks to Lex
>Lex is bulked up and matured
>At the end of the movie he breaks out of prison
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD5wQROo_bs&list=PLBKadB95sF44vjNzNABcYoF_7ae6lAgJM&index=3

>>81313090
Third world prisons? Because I work in corrections and I have literally never seen a penitentiary do this.

>>81313098
>I'm not even going to try defending Lex.
He needs no defense

>>81313143

No, in the United States. There've been several religious freedom lawsuits where the plaintiffs said that the practice violated tenets of their faith (Muslims or Orthodox Jews often observe practices that restrict cutting beards or hair).

>>81312919
>Lex keeps referring to demons from space
>only thing from space viewers know of are kryptonians
>Lex says they know now that Superman is dead somehow
>idea is reinforced by repeating the flipped painting
The natural assumption here is that there are more kryptonians, and Supes dying somehow triggers their awareness. If you don't know who the new gods are, there's no reason to assume there's yet another player. Now if they kept that deleted communion scene, viewers would have every reason to believe there's something else. This movie was edited to shit.

>Batdemons show up multiple times and the devils in the painting look extremely similar to them.
The parademons looked insectoid. To add to that, it was a dream sequence, so it could easily be interpreted as weirdness/fears of batman being expressed, not an actual thing in the setting.

>>81312919
>Because that scene serves literally no other purpose otherwise?
It would serve to explain how he knew what to do to create doomsday.

>>81313276

What infuriates me the most about the Communion scene being cut is the fact that it's only thirty fucking seconds long.

Surely they could've found 30 seconds in the movie to get rid of in order to fit that in.

When does Luthor learn about Darkseid? Is he trying to get rid of Superman after finding out that the New Gods are coming to Earth? Seems pretty dumb to me.

>>81313527
In the communion scene.
Finding out any time else makes no sense given what he says.

>>81313403
Who the fuck was he looking at anyway? Yuga Khan?

>>81313527
>Is he trying to get rid of Superman after finding out that the New Gods are coming to Earth? Seems pretty dumb to me.

Superman being dead seems to be what signals the Apokalips invasion, judging from what Lex says at the end.

>>81313527
>>81313552
Oh, you mean the scene they showed on YOUTUBE?

>>81313611

We don't know yet. Most common guesses seem to be him or Steppenwolf.

>>81313615
Wait so he wants to get rid of Superman so that Darkseid can then destroy the planet he lives on?

>>81310027
Except Prometheus is a Titan. He stole from his inferiors to give to those who were barely above insects.
Prometheus represents the gift of knowledge to lesser beings in the hope of granting them comfort, dignity, and equality.

So that would be like Luthor wanting to be a New God and give all humans superpowers.

>>81313670
No, just that him killing Superman has led to the incasion

>>81313670

He doesn't learn about Darkseid until after he's already released Doomsday. For whatever reason he goes back to the archive, maybe to look for something else to use to kill Superman when it fails, or to take over the world, and hits Anti-Life instead.

>>81311125
You want theme exploration? I'll give you theme exploration.


Superman is Christ, Doomsday is Anti Christ
> Superman has human and kryptonian parents
> Doomsday has a human and kryptonian parent
> Superman has a natural birth
> Doomsday has artificial birth
> Superman is last of his kind
> Doomsday is first of his kind
> Superman was given the freedom to become anything by the Kents and the El's and he became a hero
> Doomsday was forced to become a villain


Also that second to last point is apparent, and is something I realized about MoS, that the reason the kents give their speeches about letting the kids die in the bus, about superman not owing the world a thing, is because they wanted him to be free from society's expectations, Just like the El's did on krypton. And despite having all this freedom, despite having never been told to be a hero, Clark still decides to be one, making him all the more heroic.

>>81313403
It would have confused the living shit out of the audiences, anon. Like, sure they did that with the flash scene, but flash is a much more iconic character than Steppenwolf or whoever was that.

On a side note, I freaking loved it

>>81313615
You know I get the feeling Darkseid is gonna resurrect an evil Supes and the Justice League's first battle is gonna be to take him down
>tfw Snyderverse justice league was formed to kill Superman
Being superman is suffering

>>81311901
ARE YOU AN IDIOT, THIS WHOLE POST IS ABOUT HOW HE REPEATS THIS THEME OVER AND OVER AGAIN YOU RETARD

>>81313785
>> Doomsday is first of his kind
The shipe explicitly says the creation of abominations has been banned to avoid making such a mistake AGAIN.

>>81313919
It would have tied together the entire darkseid thing like >>81313276 points out. Without it they have no idea what Lex is raving about at the end

>>81313944
There's not a chance in hell there won't be some big scene where Superman saves them all when the chips are down, come on.

The ending is intentionally meant to be optimistic. Christ didn't die, so he could later show up to murder us all when Satan rolls into town.

I just watched the deleted scene. Why does Steppenwolf roar like he's a parademon? I thought he talked like a person.

>>81314041
I honestly think that when the Director's Cut comes out, there will be a very big reevaluation of this movie.

It won't be perfect, this movie is the cinematic equivalent of a concussion, but there is a lot of interesting shit bubbling beneath the surface.

>>81314095
Probably a different language

>>81314095
Because it's scary

>>81314052
I don't trust Snyder enough to make a hopeful Superman movie

>>81313403
Because that's COMIC BOOKS and it doesn't fit with Snyder's DEEP RELIGIOUS SYMBOLISM that's TOO SMART FOR MARVEL FANS.

>>81310223
And it was boring ass shit

>they wrote Lex Luthor as Dan from Dan Vs. instead of as Lex Luthor

WHAT WERE THEY THINKING

>>81314322
>instead of Lex Luthor
pleb

>>81314378
You forgot a word

>>81310027
What is the deleted communion scene?

Jesse Eisenberg as Max Landis as Lex Luthor

>>81314543
Lex Luthor discovering Anti-Life

>we've reached the point where people have to do analysis of films to determine if they're good or not
Saw the movie, it was shit. That's the end of for most people.

The fact people are going through such mental gymnastics to defend this Zach Synder turd is laughable

>>81314648
You got trolled, faggot.

>>81312788
It would've been great if they both came to an agreement and still put on a 'fight' for Luthor, just so he'd think he'd won and let his guard down.

>>81314759
This would've been perfect.

This thread reminds me of G-Reco threads on /m/
Both of those have the problem of being really bad at presenting their ideas in a cohesive and easy to understand manner
Difference being BvS is shit whereas G-Reco is alright

>>81312497
Why not cut out the middle man and beat superman with those weapons instead of creating an even stronger dude and then using the weapons on the far more dangerous dude.That's fucking retarded.

>Snyder manipulates this new paradigm so that mankind’s sense of mortality is embodied by Batman, Superman, and their arch-nemesis, Lex Luthor. (All three characterization performances are, well, perfect.) When Superman’s motives are questioned, the skepticism and vilification create an antagonism between him and Batman that Snyder lays out as an ideological conflict and that Luthor exacerbates. Luthor (Jesse Eisenberg, who played Mark Zuckerberg in The Social Network and thus personifies the craven millennium) cynically whines about “The oldest lie in America: that power can be innocent.” He even threatens a senator (Holly Hunter) who heads an investigation into Superman’s guilt.

>Luthor’s obsession with Superman (“He answers to no one. Not even, I think, to God”) reveals envy that is unmistakably demonic; a development that coheres with Snyder’s spiritual-social vision of post–9/11 grief and desire for salvation. He creates the year’s first great movie image by examining Superman’s “divinity” when he is surrounded by Day of the Dead multitudes. The image echoes our current desperation regarding “populism” — and that’s truly audacious.

based Armond White hitting the nail on the head again with this film, he's one of the few critics who actually 'got' what Snyder and Eisenberg were trying to do

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/433246/batman-v-superman-culture-war-gets-mythic

>>81313785
So deep

>>81314953

>In this age of petty Marvels, most comic-book movies merely perpetrate fantasies of power, but Snyder, enacting his personal aesthetic, braves a film that examines those fantasies. He boldly challenges popular culture’s current decay. Man of Steel was a magnificent, hugely satisfying response to what’s often missing in pop culture, and Batman v Superman raises more ideas without (yet) resolving them. And Snyder, obliged to placate the Marvel hordes, lets a couple of fight scenes devolve into Avengers-trite turmoil.

why is Armond so fucking based at destroying plebs?

File: 1310762705254.jpg (28KB, 325x222px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 325x222px

>Superman spends the entire first half of the movie trying to make up for demolishing Metropolis
>saves people in a flood, saves a little girl from a house fire and saves astronauts in a rocket
>b-but what if he blows up a bus of orphans
>that justifies me blowing up the capital building and creating an unstoppable demon monster
More people died because Lex and wheelchair fag were being babies about Superman.

Lex was in the process of making Doomsday while he assumed Batman was killing Superman. So what was Doomsday going to break loose regardless? Lex was lucky Wonderwoman and Batman were there to clean up his mess

>>81314953
>armond white jerking off to babbys first divine symbolism

You know he doesn't believe any of this shit right?

>>81310027
My only complaint is that Luthor acts like the Joker and Bruce/Batman acts more like Luthor.

>>81314648
>Mental gymnastics
>Understanding the film.
I hear the new Avenger is going to be Captain Exposition, should be right up your alley

>>81311029
>Did he think he could control it?
Yes. This should have been obvious when he reached out to it before it tried to kill him.

>>81311378
Hubris is the core of Luthor's character. Of course he thought the monster he created would bend to his will. After all, everything else had.

>>81317626
What the hell led him to think that then? There was no indication there was any sort of control mechanism at play that failed. He just made an angry monster and expected it would listen to him because he bled into some soup to make it? That's some deeply flawed logic for a man that spent the whole movie manipulating people, and even making contingencies in case they weren't easily manipulated.

>>81316895
>Luthor acts like the Joker

Being twitchy and manic doesn't immediately mean "Joker", anon.

>Bruce/Batman acts more like Luthor

I've argued that this is intentional and that Batman's main character arc deals with him realizing how close he comes to becoming Luthor before he recognizes his mistake.

>>81317736
He said when he created it that it would be a part of him. He wanted to remove superman from above him, putting another figure in that position that was technically a part of him acheives that.

>>81317723
Because he went to great effort to make sure they did. He did nothing to ensure doomsday's obedience.

>>81316895
I dont understand this

I dont see the Joker resemblance.

What is this autistifaggotry

>>81317780
So in that case he didn't expect Doomsday's obedience, only that it would kill Superman. Now it seems like a suicide, as he wouldn't expect doomsday to spare him from it's wanton destruction.

>>81313117
I would actually like this. I didnt hate Jesse Eisenberg as Lex it was obvious he was getting the shit direction he went with Lex, from Snyder an Snyder's wife. And if they get him to bulk up it would be pretty cool

>>81317815
He's very similar to Ledger Joker with his extensive plans, manipulation, nihilism and oddball mannerisms.

>>81317815

these autismos think just because luthor has longer hair he kinda looks like heath, enough for their autism to kick in

>>81317857
He sees death by doomsday as greater than death by superman. Hence his speech about idolizing the guy who took powers from gods and gave it to humans.

>>81317906
He really isn't.

Luthors plans were very directed and had fail safe after fail safe. He had reasons for doing what he did and manipulated on a massive scale.

>>81317930
As long as we both agree Luthor had no illusions that he would live through this, or that he wasn't unleashing a rampaging godlike monster to kill another godlike monster

>>81317736
>What the hell led him to think that then?
Why wouldn't he? We know that Doomsday is an uncontrollable monster because we've read the comics. Lex doesn't have any reason to assume the creature would be violent and unstoppable. Since Lex is an arrogant ass, he probably thought it would see him as a father figure.

>>81318012
I agree he wasn't looking far beyond 'take out superman'.

In saying that, his plan was great (and a success).

>>81317970
So did ledger Joker. He raved about not having a plan but spent all his time building up his plans. He even had the same motivation of wanting to deface the noble characters

>>81318035
The ship tells him it would be an abomination and that the Kryptons brought about laws to block it happening.

>>81318035
Because the computer outright tells him he's making a dangerous monster the kryptonian council banned because its a dangerous monster

>>81318065

seems to me you just have a edgy ledger joker boner and want to see him in everything, you seem like the type of person who thinks jason todd will be the joker in suicide squad, because not muh ledgy :(

>>81317767
but it also doesn't mean Luthor

>>81318118
I didn't like Ledger's Joker and found his nihilistic slant childish.
That doesn't mean I can't see the similarities between him and Eisenberg Luthor. I can understand why people are comparing the two.

>>81318073
>Kryptonians made laws to ban it
>but leave the programming in anyway because lol why not

File: 1459146071588.png (1MB, 1133x785px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1133x785px

Okay, I've finally watched the movie and now I can give my opinion.

I've come to this conclusion: Fuck this movie, fuck luthenberg, fuck bataffleck, fuck snyder, fuck man of murder, fuck the mcu, fuck the dceu. This chan needs a /capeshit/ board and /tv/ needs to get the fuck out, i don't care if it means turningg /co/ into a slowboard. Just do it.

Rate: a strong 4 out of 10 for this piece of crap.

File: hubba bubba dubba.jpg (100KB, 477x640px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 477x640px

>>81318249
this anon is the rightest anon in the thread

>>81318242
The programming didn't work because the council was dead and Luthor could assume complete control over the ship.

Who puts a failsafe in for after you have been wiped from existence?

File: 1331858410704.jpg (178KB, 668x691px) Image search: [Google]

178KB, 668x691px

>>81312175
Honestly, this thread is the first I'm hearing about them.

>>81310027
Seriously? You believed Lex Luthor about the child abuse?

One, that's an incredibly cliched motivation. Two, it's not what Lex's motivation was.

Lex was just plain jealous of Superman. Superman has all this power, yet no knowledge. Lex has all this knowledge and wealth, but he has nothing like Superman's power. And he can't stand it. To him,. it's entirely undeserved and that's why he creates Doomsday; so that a being with his blood, something he can say is a part of HIM, has the power of Superman.

That's it.

As for Darkseid, that came out of fucking nowhere unless he knew nothing about Darkseid and was just speaking in general about the coming alien holocaust.

>>81318312
why did they leave the forbidden knowledge in the ship in the first place?

>>81318249
>fuck bataffleck
Would have accepted your opinion even though I disagree with you.
But that is 100% shit taste anon. You can go fuck yourself

>>81310986
Except Batman literally says he's always been like that. That's why he's a criminal. The only difference now is that he's branding villains instead of just executing them. The whole "taking the law into his own hands" complex Clark has about him is because Batman kills and Superman don't.

>>81318249
>Rate: a strong slightly below average for this piece of crap.

You really need to learn how numbers work.

>>81318352
Lex being abused as a child is from the comics

>>81312066
so what's the point of scheming about terrorists and batman or whatever if he's already willing to let the entire world get destroyed by a kryptonian ogre? does he only care about fucking over superman? they really should've kept the scene where he went insane if they were gonna throw his decisions making sense out the window

>>81318369
It's illegal to assault someone but they don't cut off everyones arms anon.

>>81318369
Luthor was accessing archives. Even forbidden shit stats in archives, unless it's one of those societies that likes to revise history to erase their less than stellar parts

>>81318428
I'd think if a computer program became illegal the government would make every effort to remove it from their own hardware

>>81318426
Failsafe in case superman defeated doomsday. Hence the line:

>No no no, you can't be all good and all powerful. You are not a God. You must be lacking in one.
If superman defeats Doomsday than he is all powerful and cannot be all good, so Lex wants to expose that.

>>81312675
That's one motivation. But Lex has others too.

Another popular one is that Lex is a petty human being that can't stand the idea of another being that is more powerful than him. One he can't control.

He cares about taking care of humanity because it makes him look good, but doesn't really care about actually helping others. Lex is always in things for hinself

>>81318397

but this movie only scored 4 points in my head because I only liked affleck's batman.

But still, fuck him. I just don't want to be hiding threads anymore, it's getting ridiculous. It needs a containment board. It's WORSE than the days before /vp/, and it has been that bad for two years? It's only gonna get worse.

>>81318352
>As for Darkseid, that came out of fucking nowhere unless he knew nothing about Darkseid and was just speaking in general about the coming alien holocaust.

The implication is that Luthor knows Darkseid is coming because of his research with the scout ship. The flipped painting, the Motherbox noises, he knows what's up. The deleted scene confirms that he's learned of Steppenwolf.

>>81318459
As a programmer, they probably just put a comment above the line of code that said:
>// Don't call this. Bug#58925

>>81318489
>The implication is that Luthor knows Darkseid is coming because of his research with the scout ship. The flipped painting, the Motherbox noises, he knows what's up.
Yeah. First watch through and without the deleted scenes I picked up right away that Lex knew about Darkseid.

The Flash time travel showed that the death of superman heralded the arrival of Darkseid, so that was another big clue.

>>81318471
>Another popular one is that Lex is a petty human being that can't stand the idea of another being that is more powerful than him.
Why can't he stand that?
Because he thinks of himself as the true hero.
Those two Lexs are the same.

>>81318533
>Why can't he stand that?
Could be because of his fathers abuse. Remember this Lex idolises the guy who robbed the power from the gods and gave it to humans.

>>81312095
>evil is competent
all that lex luthor did was say sentences that had the word "god" in them, make someone drink his pee and then blow them up, kidnapped superman's mom, and make a creature stronger than superman to stop superman with no plan to control it. then he got sent to jail.

>>81318533
>Why can't he stand that?
Because he's a power freak

>>81317970
>Luthors plans were very directed and had fail safe after fail safe.

yeah like letting batman take his entire kryptonite supply and relying entirely on him to kill superman

the same batman whose killing zeal evaporated when he figured out superman had a mommy, which he somehow didn't figure out beforehand despite being the world's greatest detective

and his failsafe in case that didn't work out? lol, fuck everything, here's doomsday, fuck the world

why would Lex even think to send a street level vigilante against fucking superman except as a threadbare justification to set up the eponymous conflict of this dumb fucking movie?

>>81318527

I said this earlier, but I think there is zero evidence that Lex knows about Darkseid before the end of the movie. The Communion scene very clearly takes place either towards the end of the Doomsday fight, or after it's over and Superman's dead. I like to think that Lex goes back into the archives in desperation one more time after Doomsday apparently tries to attack HIM, looking for something else, another contingency.

The Lex after that scene, and in prison is COMPLETELY difference from the Lex we saw through the rest of the movie.

>>81318576
It must suck going through life being as stupid as you.

>>81318453
yeah, it's not like this society in particular fucking banned natural birth

"If god is all good, then he cannot be all powerful
and if god is all powerful, then he cannot be all good"

I mean

This character isn't sketched out as a typical capeshit movie villain.

These are motivations that are the root of a person's belief system. It speaks to their worldview, how they were raised (this is even alluded to) and to how they perceive others. If you keep looking at the movie and trying to find "that moment" or "that scene" where the reason Lex does what he does becomes clear...you are not going to find it. But when you view the character as a whole and understand his philosophy, his outlook on life, etc...then you have all the motivation you need

>>81311415
>was using the cripple to manipulate bruce for months

We all understood that Lex kept him from receiving his checks to make him even more unstable, and sent them back to Wayne Indutries himself, right?

>>81318483
>wahhhhh don't talk about things I dont like it triggers me
Yeah no. You can really go fuck yourself now. This board is for discussing all things related to comics and cartoons including live action adaptations. I dont see you bitching about anyone talking about the live action jungle book adaptation or any other cartoon adaptation. But not muh comicbooks!
Well screw you. If you don't like it then leave

>>81318574
He idolizes a heroic figure that saved humanity by going against the gods. Someone much like the true hero he sees himself as. Again, this interpretation feeds into the first. Lex always thinks of himself as the good guy, but he's really just a narcissist

>>81310027
Except they were already planning to frame Supermab before the African warlord scene started.
100% serious here how did you not realize that when it was said out loud.

>>81318594
>yeah like letting batman take his entire kryptonite supply and relying entirely on him to kill superman
He wanted bats to take it, and had doomsday as backup if he failed

>>81318594
>yeah like letting batman take his entire kryptonite supply and relying entirely on him to kill superman
He had been monitoring batman heavily and had obviously decided that bats + kryptonite would be a worthy foe.
>the same batman whose killing zeal evaporated when he figured out superman had a mommy,
He knew it was possible that Superman vs Batman wouldn't end with one of them dead, hence the doomsday failsafe. This batman isn't comic book great detective. This is PTSD suffering, alien fearing batman.
>and his failsafe in case that didn't work out? lol, fuck everything, here's doomsday, fuck the world
Yes, his goal was to remove superman.
>why would Lex even think to send a street level vigilante against fucking superman except as a threadbare justification to set up the eponymous conflict of this dumb fucking movie?
Because if supes killed bats, it would ruin his image. If bats killed supes it solves his problem.

>>81318610
He asked the ship to teach him about everything.

>>81318669
/tv/

plz

go

>>81318712

I thought that he was perfectly willing to give it to him legally, he WAS offering to cut Bruce into Lexcorp's R&D department.

He definitely looks pretty sad when he realizes Batman stole the Kryptonite.

>>81318622
i'm sorry the movie gave me a headache. like no shit. everything was black except when machine gun fire went off or batman's bright ass monitors were on screen. the loud noises, constant huge musical cues, i really had a migraine by the end that might have prevented me from understanding the symbolism behind lex luthor's dad's painting. i think it has to do with him not trusting superman

>>81318657
You get it anon. The two different outcomes are what his two different plans cater for.

If superman is all powerful, he won't be good and will kill bats.

If superman is all good, he will survive to doomsday, but won't be all powerful and will lose.

Which he did. Lex was right, Lex won.

>>81318785
When I watched it a second time, you can see he is starting to smirk actually

>>81318785
>legally
he literally brought it into the country illegally

>>81318808
>Which he did. Lex was right, Lex won.


What Lex didn't count on was Batman and Wonder Woman actually coming into the picture to help him out, and for Superman to become a martyr in the process.

>>81318644
Yeah and they still knew what it was, and that they had once had kids that way.
A truly revisionist society would've sterilized the population and all engineered newborns and simply told everyone kryptonians were always made this way. No record of natural birth kryptonians would exist.

In fact, why didn't they stetilize the population? If natural breeding is such a taboo why even allow people to make the mistake. Not like it would hard to implement when literally every child is custom engineered

>>81318846
in a society where every child is custom engineered and technology exists to bring people back from the dead, it's probably not super-hard (ho ho) to un-sterilize people

>>81318785
He smirks. He just smirks in his crazy twitchy way so it's hard to notice

>>81318669

If you want to turn comic book movies into "live action adaptations" (movies), then get your shit and fuck off to /tv/. Oh, wait, you can't, because even there people are tired of your shit.

Do you see why we need a board just for this? Don't talk to me like it is about comics, it's not about comics anymore, people who talk about it don't give a fuck about comics, I assure you.

And who said I like jungle book threads? The only thing I deal with is pixar movies, because they still are cartoons in some way.

>>81318839
Yeah. He didn't count on superman going the befriend option. Back against the wall. He thought it was kill or be killed, but supes found the better way (which is wonderfully in character).

>>81318712
what was the backup is doomsday succeeded?

>>81318913
Your inability to close the tab isn't my problem.

>>81318927
None, that was a win condition for Lex. He would have successfully taken the powers from the Gods and used it to take them down. Just like his damn idol.

>>81318744
>He had been monitoring batman heavily and had obviously decided that bats + kryptonite would be a worthy foe.
did he not even think to keep a little kryptonite for himself? why would he pit a SINGLE GUY WITHOUT SUPERPOWERS against superman? shit, give wonderwoman some kryptonite and sic her on superman and that nigger's fucked. wonderwoman isn't even a detective supergenius so she's probably hella easy to manipulate.
>He knew it was possible that Superman vs Batman wouldn't end with one of them dead, hence the doomsday failsafe.
but doomsday isn't a failsafe. if doomsday wins, EVERYONE loses. including lex
>Yes, his goal was to remove superman.
and kill himself in the process? why would egotistical jerknut lex fucking murder humanity in his quest to prove humanity doesn't need superman?
>Because if supes killed bats, it would ruin his image.
but this is a shitty batman everyone hates, wouldn't killing him IMPROVE his image?

>>81318927
Superman dying/being defaced was the end goal. He had no concern for anything beyond that. This Luthor was ao nihilistic he would forfiet his own life to see superman brought low.

>>81319023
>he would forfiet his own life to see superman brought low
literally the Joker

>>81318895
>technology exists to bring people back from the dead
They don't have that.
And yeah it would be hard if the council was in control of all the tech to actually do that with

>>81319001
>but doomsday isn't a failsafe. if doomsday wins, EVERYONE loses. including lex
Lex is a narcissist and an egomaniac. Going by the scene of Doomsday's birth, and the fact that Luthor birthed him with his blood, he clearly expected a certain level of control over it

>but this is a shitty batman everyone hates, wouldn't killing him IMPROVE his image?
Superman beating and killing a mortal man, a human and being shown to the world in that state is not a good look and would turn the entire world against him

>>81319062
The joker who thinks batman completes him? I would never kill you he says.

That's way different to lex

>>81318987
His idol uplifted humanity. he didn't actually harm the gods in any way, and was punished for his noble gesture.

>>81319120
what about the Joker from the comic BvS partially adapted, who literally killed himself to make Batman look bad?

I think that his motivations are seen as unclear by many is that they aren't personnal. He doesn't hate Superman himself, not really, but the concept of Superman.

The same thing happens between Bruce and Clark, even more obviously because it goes both ways, while Lex is off Clark's radar for most of the movie.
>Bruce sees Clark as all powerful, the biggest threat to Earth possible. One it is only possible to beat by taking premptive measures.
>Clark sees Bruce as a maniac, a criminal without morals allowed to last because the corrupt system of Gotham accepts him. He is a desperate measure, proof that Gotham's police gave up their ideals.

Their conflict isn't personnal, it's conceptual. It's the same way Lex sees Superman as a threat because all the power he has is meaningless compared to a real god. His speech at the library stuff is pretty clear about that. It's not the guy himself that he hates, it's the idea that this being makes Lex worth nothing, because in his mind, with his ego, being second best is just unthinkable.

>>81318527
>>81318489
I know the comics, I know that the "dream visions" had parademons in them and Lex was referencing Darkseid. But it never comes across in the film how he knows about Darkseid any more than how he knew about Batman being Bruce Wayne.

>>81319097
>Lex is a narcissist and an egomaniac.
But not stupid. He has no reason to believe he can control it. He spends thw whole movie playing at manipulating people through blackmail and such, he is acutely aware of how much it takes to get things to listen to you. He evwn gets denied by the senator and blows her up in response. He made a completely free agent and expected it to listen to him. Where was his bliw up doonsday backup?

>>81319179
>>81318808
>>81318657
I think on a character and motivation level, this is the truest on screen representation of Lex Luthor seen in any film. Jesse's performance obviously seems to be love or hate, but the character itself I think is a win.

File: XT4FTCM.png (569KB, 479x696px) Image search: [Google]

569KB, 479x696px

>>81319120
>but /tv/ discussion can also be about the comics, they said

>>81319001
>did he not even think to keep a little kryptonite for himself?
Why? He's not a fighter. In fact, this may inspire him to go full battlesuit, "If you want something done right".
> shit, give wonderwoman some kryptonite and sic her on superman and that nigger's fucked
He was tracking Flash, Aquaman, Cyborg and WW. He weighed up those options, but Bats was ready to be manipulated after suffering at the hands of superman.

>>81319097
>Going by the scene of Doomsday's birth, and the fact that Luthor birthed him with his blood, he clearly expected a certain level of control over it

why. nothing indicates he would have control over it at all. the ship basically tells him it's an unstoppable killing machine. does he not know blood magic isn't real?

>Superman beating and killing a mortal man
superman doesn't have to kill batman, he can get away with disabling him and then explaining what's going on

and besides, batman started it, what was superman supposed to do, let bats murder him?

>turn the entire world against him
dude there are literally people worshiping this guy, do you think they care that he beat up a guy who's been fucking murdering people by the dozens?

>>81319267
Lex isn't insane, that's like rule #1 for the character

>>81319001
WW wasn't shiwn to be mentally unstable. Lex chose Batman because he's unhinged enough to be easily manipulated and willing to kill his enemies

>>81319328

Oh he's insane, but he's still rational. Just horrifically sociopathic and merciless.

>>81319267
Lex isn't nihilistic, he's narcissistic. That's where this interpreyation falls short

>>81319419
Expecting to be able to control doomsday is not at all rational. Insanity is literally a state of irrational thinking

>>81319290
>Why? He's not a fighter.
He has people in his payroll who are. People who he could actually trust to GET THE JOB DONE. Why would he not ensure just a little protection for himself? Is he a fucking moron?

>In fact, this may inspire him to go full battlesuit, "If you want something done right".
WHY DIDN'T THIS HAPPEN, IT MAKES SENSE FOR THE CHARACTER, IT'S EVEN HAPPENED BEFORE

>He weighed up those options
And chose the worst fucking one. Why? Because the movie had to have Batman fight Superman! So let's write this Batman as a gullible, easily manipulated moron and this Superman as an aloof, neurotic piece of shit.

>>81319285
Still one of the most hilariously retarded scenes I've ever read

>>81319499
>. Why would he not ensure just a little protection for himself?
See the giant blood monster he spawned that killed superman?
>WHY DIDN'T THIS HAPPEN, IT MAKES SENSE FOR THE CHARACTER, IT'S EVEN HAPPENED BEFORE
Because this is step one in a multi movie connected universe. They have the opportunity to give characters time to grow. I prefer he didn't start all battlesuit and stern. Let him try erratic and controlling, let others fail him, let him grow.

Similiarly I like that batman is really fucking flawed, massive character growth is expected throughout the life of the DCU.

>And chose the worst fucking one. Why? Because the movie had to have Batman fight Superman! So let's write this Batman as a gullible, easily manipulated moron and this Superman as an aloof, neurotic piece of shit.
He chose the only practical one. You saw WW, she wasn't going to be manipulated so easily. He chose the damaged one, the one who had an angle he could work. The one who kills.

>>81319499
All interpretations of batman are paranoid loonies. Anyone fighting a heroic superman makes no sense, but batman is the most likely to do it if pushed

>>81319621
The one who was already on edge because one of his sidekick died.

>>81319564
and why is that

>>81319621
>See the giant blood monster he spawned that killed superman?
Again, he has zero control over the blood monster. Doomsday was a last shot kamikaze attack on Supes. If he's unleashed, everyone dies.

>>81319639
would you look at the time
AAAAAAAAAAAA

>>81319710
>snapping your own neck just by twisting it
>after it's already been snapped and made you paralyzed

>>81314648
>people have to do analysis of films to determine if they're good or not
We reached that point 100 years ago

>>81319621
>See the giant blood monster he spawned that killed superman?
Given the first thing the giant blood monster did was try to fucking kill him, I'm not sure Doomsday is what I'd consider effective protection.

>Because this is step one in a multi movie connected universe. They have the opportunity to give characters time to grow.

Maybe they should take the time to establish the characters with consistent motivations instead of waffling between wanting to destroy Superman for being a godlike monster out of your control to creating a godlike monster out of your control because you want to see the world burn. Lex's character is fucking fucked. How do you backpedal from nihilistic death worshiper?

>You saw WW, she wasn't going to be manipulated so easily.

She doesn't even know what the fuck is even happening half the time, she's completely clueless until Batman keys her in. And she fought in WW1, she's seen some fucking shit.

>>81319639
If there's anyone who might possibly be aware of being manipulated, it's the guy whose entire shtick is being the "world's greatest detective." The guy who meticulously investigates every single stupid thing BECAUSE he's a paranoid loonie who thinks the world's out to get him.

>>81310223
>>81310242
Shit, I didn't see that. That actually makes a lot of sense.

>>81320090
He WAS that. He changed, it said so explicitly in the movie.

He WAS the comicbook batman, he broke. Superman wiped the slate clean, he has PTSD, he is ripe for manipulation.

>>81319419
>merciless
poor asian qt

>>81320542
Don't feel bad for the skeleton, she's now surrounded by her own kind

>>81320324
You know what, point taken, it is well-established in the movie that Batman's psyche is fucked up by Superman and he'd probably be easier to lead along than he would be normally. Batman's character motivation and growth is probably the single strong point of this movie.

Even so, Lex letting everything ride on this particular staged conflict is patently ridiculous. The odds of Batman actually winning were a longshot at best, and Lex basically let the two duke it out pretty much uninterrupted for no reason at all. What was stopping Lex Luthor from saying "yeah, Batman, you're right, this guy has to be stopped. Here's some kryptonite and also my personal hitsquad armed with kryptonite bullets. Let's go kill this piece of shit." Or hell, try to recruit some of the other metahumans as backup, why not? It's not like it's a secret that Lex thinks Superman's a prick. And evidently stopping him is not to unpopular an idea either.

What I'm saying is, why is Batman such an important piece to Lex? Lex has no reason to think Batman's capable of taking out Superman by himself. The entire premise of the Snyderverse is that Superman is basically unassailable. So why does he think a fistfighting street level vigilante has any chance except for the fact that audiences want to see it happen for pure spectacle?

>>81318324
You realize that it's the same PMCs through the entire movie, right? KGBeast is there right from the outset. And the mysterious magic bullet lodged in Lois' journal is what ties them back to Luthor. It's basically the only reason Swanwick shows up in this film.

>>81319773
So do you know why paramedics tell you not to move people who have been in a car accident and may have a broken neck? Do you know why they put that neck brace thing in people with neck injuries?

>>81311418

Yeah. He discovers Apokolips after that, thanks to the ships Holo-memory thingamajig. And he looks scared shitless.

They really shouldve kept that scene.

>>81321044
Lex didn't care who won the match, either way he got what he wanted. If superman won he's got doomsday to finish him.

If Lex openly went to batman that would instantly set off his paranoia. He needs to believe whatever ideas he has are his own.

holy shit last night and a few hours ago i was in threads where i got chewed on for saying a bunch of this stuff
okay legit BvS thread then,
the meaning(s)/allusions of bruce's vision?

>>81321427
Darkseid. Just darkseid.

This movie needed a Keyser Soze-esqe scene where Lex explains that his father abused him for not praying enough by dressing up in blue tights, turning on CNN and hurling jars of piss at him.

>>81321373
>If superman won he's got doomsday to finish him.

Doomsday isn't a rational option. If Doomsday wins, everybody loses, especially Lex. It's stupid and doesn't fit Lex's character in the movie or in the comics.

And the point is that Lex could have easily manipulated others to join Batman in his fight, the only reason he didn't was because the movie was hastily reverse engineered from the Batman/Superman fight.

Maybe someone already pointed it out but I always thought his little speech at the library event was a good window into Lex's mindset "Books are knowledge and knowledge is power and... And the tragedy of man' is to have knowledge with no power because it is paradoxical!"

I know I'm paraphrasing the line a bit but I'm sure you all get my point.

>>81321640
It is stupid, but it's how the movie was set up

Did Lex have an affair with senator milf? Am I the only one who thought there was something weirdly sexual about their scenes?

>>81321492
i think the omega symbol has meaning within bvs itself, while the fact that it's bruce's vision also being an important factor
the symbols of the characters are important
batman brands people in the act of committing justice
superman is called upon to help
lex's promethean frankenstein creation climbs his tower and ignites for the first time atop of it. when he kills superman it is precisely through the symbol on his chest
the omega symbol i think functions in the same way, he brands the earth itself
and of course the apocalyptic nature of the dream itself and how afterwards flash come to him in a blaze of light. considering how the doomsday fight functions on both metaphorical and literal planes, i think maybe these movie implies that the mental plane is just as real as the physical one which also further sets up how darkseid will play a role in the future

>>81321640
>Doomsday isn't a rational option

Lex's hateboner for Superman isn't rational, it has always blinded him by giving him tunnel vision.

>>81321711
exactly, he further confirms those notions when with superman
the fact that bruce diana and clark are there is important as well, bruce and clark specifically being moved by his will

File: re.jpg (13KB, 480x152px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 480x152px

>>81322035

>>81321640
doomsday is frankenstein's monster and luthor did not fear the creature made of his blood at all. when he raises his fist superman acts immediately. frankly we are not explicitly shown what the monster's relation to lex would have been at all

>sexual vibe with senator milf

I guess if you're talking about that fucked up thing in Nightcrawler.

>>81322075
There are limits, anon. Creating a creature that embodies everything you hate about Superman, but a thousand times worse is pretty far past that limit. The endless power, complete unaccountability, no method of control, etc.

>>81322149
>luthor did not fear the creature made of his blood at all

This is stupid though. Even the ship told him that these monsters were an uncontrollable menace. And the kryptonians actually had some idea of how their own biology worked.

>>81321427

In a previous thread I typed up a good deal about why it's appropriate for batman to be recieving these foreshadowing visions in the movie. His character represents the DC cinematic universe moving from an internalized, individual focus to a broader universe. This is his vision quest, a test or initiation rite to step from the world of his own obsessive crusade into a new world-view that accounts for this brave new world that has such people in it.

>>81311097
we sort of need to see what he was up to with darkseid

comic lex would never side with darkseid because he's just as bad as superman in terms of lex not being able to beat him, but he might pretend to if he had a way to beat him

if jesse lex actually plans on serving darkseid then we'll know that snyder doesn't understand lex at all

>>81322361
I'm in the "he didn't know until the end" camp with this one.

And Anti-Life broke him

>>81310027
these are all conjectures anon. its not shown clearly in the movie.

the fact that you started a thread to determine and spell out his motivations and the numerous objections and theories in the thread itself means either lex has no motivation, or its buried beneath a clusterfuck of a plot which makes it so unclear.

>>81322223
>Creating a creature that embodies everything you hate about Superman

But that's the delicious irony of it. He's creating his own God to kill God.

>>81311273
to add to your point it's also important that doomsday destroys the monument of superman with superman. yes we understand that clark is a good guy but it also does away with the sort of overlord god savior who comes from above to save us. bruce believes that men are good aagain and the painting is inverted, signaling both that evil comes from above but that light will emanate from below.
'if you seek his monument look around you'

>>81322398
i don't see lex as the kind of guy to break to anti-life

in final crisis him and sivana were able to escape it and I personally believe that lex actually needs to be able to resist it as part of his character

>>81322453

What part about his big goddamn Problem of Evil speech went over your head?

>>81318324
There's dialogue in the movie where Lois is flatout told that the reason Lex's PMCs were even there is they knew they knew Superman would be there.

And she asks how they knew he'd be there, but cuts herself off when she realizes it's because she was there and of course, Superman always saves Lois.

>>81322492
I'm okay with it in the terms of movies because Anti-Life should be a huge thing.
And using Lex to showcase it isn'tthe worst idea

File: znt8tszpqojzr02ikibk.png (773KB, 800x450px) Image search: [Google]

773KB, 800x450px

>>81322361
>comic lex would never side with darkseid

Anon, comics Lex IS Darkseid.

>>81322490

Interesting I never considered that part as a literal iconoclasm.

>>81322492

He isn't in the comics typically. That's why this is so terrifying in the cinematic universe. They took one of the single strongest ego-driven villains and broke him with the awful weight of that knowledge.

>>81321044
>Even so, Lex letting everything ride on this particular staged conflict is patently ridiculous
Which is why he had doomsday. Lex foresaw two possiblities.

>The greatest lie, that power can be innocent
and
>You are not a god. You cannot be all powerful and all good. You must be lacking in one.
It's a corrupt theological perspective and both mean the same thing. Superman isn't a God. Thus he must either be not all good, or not all bad.

If Superman is not all good, then pitting him against batman in such a manner (with his mothers life at stake) would expose this. If he was all good, he would pass this test but then he could not by definition be all powerful.

If Superman is not all powerful, he will be defeated by Doomsday.

The two strategies, in combination, ensure the defeat of superman, and it works, Doomsday kills superman.

>>81321427
>the meaning(s)/allusions of bruce's vision?
The death of superman heralds the arrival of Darkseid. I see it as a universe where Bruce wins BvS, and Darkseid arives. Superman is of course ressurected (as he will be now) but it's all too late and the world has gone to shit. This version of supes has been reborn into a world where Louis is dead, so he has gone full injustice.

Personally I think it's still open for interpretation.

Follow on question, what did Flash mean with "I'm too early" when he arrived from the speed force.

>The very first thing Superman does in this movie is interrupt Luthor's proxy war with the CIA by deposing of the African Warlord.

No, that's not what happened. Lex set up the CIA encounter by inserting Lois Lane so that when his men started shooting things up Superman would get blamed. Literally, Lex set up SuperMan.

>But, that's not all. In the scene where Luthor hosts a charity ball for the library, in his speech he professes deep admiration for Prometheus in his speech. This alone colors his actions, showing disdain for God figures

So Lex's motivation is that he hates God figures? Then why did he create Doomsday, another god figure who surely would've destroyed the world, just to destroy someone with good intentions? And then their the deleted scene where it shows Lex worshiping, I think, a Darkseid figure. It seems Lex's motivation is more to work to destroy humanity than to just destroy Superman

>the personification of nihilism itself.

We never saw him be nihilistic. We only saw him try to be a lunatic. He did nothing that the Lex we're familiar with would do. If this was a clever Lex, instead of bombing the politicians, he probably would've worked to destroy Superman's PR. This is the same guy who ran for president after all.

>>81322572
>They took one of the single strongest ego-driven villains and broke him with the awful weight of that knowledge.
That doesn't really mean much if Lex is established as a neurotic pile of insecurities. He doesn't really seem like a guy with a lot of mental fortitude

>>81322492
>i don't see lex as the kind of guy to break to anti-life

Everybody is susceptible to the Anti-Life equation if you are exposed to it directly. The only exception is if you manage to wield it somehow, and that tends to fall to the conflicting "wtf IS ALE in practice" debate. Lex and Sivana were not controlled by it in FC because they were working for Libra, and then betrayed him in the end because they too were going to be turned into justifiers controlled by the ALE as well.

>>81310027
OP it's like this. If you have to fill in the blanks intelligently using your intuition, reason and the information presented on screen (whether you caught it all or not), it's a good suspense/mystery thriller.

If you have to headcanon the linking scenes between set-piece action scenes, it's bad writing.

The way to tell the difference is by volume. If everybody is saying a thing doesn't make sense, chances are it doesn't. Now that's not always going to be true - it's how propaganda works for example, and it's very much dependent on the intelligence of the "average person", which is subject to change...but it's true here.

Just let it go.

>>81311199
that's where the importance of faust comes in. he makes a deal for more power, we don't know how this plays out or if he intentionally rang the bell

>>81322361
Darkseid was Lex's best buddy for years during the Loeb/Kelly/Casey years.

Our World's at war for example. Remember that Lex's armor was Apokolips.

>>81322361
>if jesse lex actually plans on serving darkseid then we'll know that snyder doesn't understand lex at all
Comic Lex in New 52 makes a deal with Brainiac that he alone would survive the destruction of earth.

Lex may very well have thought that binding his blood to doomsday would see the destruction of everyone but himself, which in comicverse he was okay with.

>>81322603
>that power can be innocent

No, he said "that power can be an incentive"

>>81322658
Because your theory that it's an alternate BvS result that triggers the bad end is wrong. It's something later on that results in the change

>>81322484
That's not irony. That's catastrophic stupidity. Lex SHOULD know better. It'd be ironic if Lex accidentally created Doomsday with his meddling in the ship. That he went and intentionally fucking did it is downright nonsense.

>>81322721
that was more lex just working with darkseid though, not actively serving him

>>81322735
he's way too scared in the prison to be thinking that darkseid is going to spare him

>>81322666
>If this was a clever Lex, instead of bombing the politicians, he probably would've worked to destroy Superman's PR.
That was the point of bombing the politicians. People suspected superman might've been responsible

>>81311745
personally i take the point of entry to be cultural and literary more than comic books. also, you don't really need to read too much into the movie to follow the plot.

where i think the movie is dense and 'difficult' is in how attentive you have to be to not only catch but connect all the dots
not to invalidate anyone, but a lot of complaints are simply stuff that people miss or didn't care to see

>>81322811
>That was the point of bombing the politicians. People suspected superman might've been responsible
Yeah. From the outside perspective, Superman intervened in foreign affairs and when the senate tried to rope them in he took them out.

That is what Lex set him up for.

>>81322735
>Lex may very well have thought that binding his blood to doomsday would see the destruction of everyone but himself
Nothing indicates that's how things might work though.

>>81311840
what i wonder is how much they're going to turn the gain on the morrison channel. terrio has already said he's taken influence from him. that's where my personal interest in this is after seeing how they went all the way with this one

>>81322739
>No, he said "that power can be an incentive"
Not how I heard it :/
>>81322755
Is it wrong? It's all head cannon right now, we don't have enough to go off of.
>he's way too scared in the prison to be thinking that darkseid is going to spare him
I was giving an example of comic Lex working with world destroyers.

>>81322851
>cultural and literary
I noticed "the red capes are coming" which I believe is a reference to the beginning of the American Civil War (the red coats are coming).

The "All good and all powerful" thing is a theological argument against God.

Those are the two I picked up on, comic knowledge aside.

>>81312119
this right here

>>81311029
I don't think he knew doomsday would be doomsday, he knew a few two things about doomsday

1.) how to create it
2.) that it's an atavistic kryptonian monster

Lex probably believes that the creature has something genetic that makes it really mess with kryptonians(similar to kryptonite), he doesn't think that it's an unkillable monster

>>81322856
>Nothing indicates that's how things might work though.
Well he did pour his blood in, then say that the beast is of his image. I'm not quite sure what he meant by that, but obviously he said it for a reason.

>>81322898
I think you need to bone up on your American history a bit, mate.

>>81322802
>That's catastrophic stupidity.

In comics, President Lex was entirely content on letting a giant meteor to crash on Earth, so that he could then rule over what little population survived the catastrophic calamity. Lex being entirely reckless and not caring the damage it does to Earth because fuck Superman is entirely in character for him. You might even say it's a defining characteristic, his contempt for the Man of Steel makes him act irrationally even at the best of times.

>>81322898

"Redcoats" was slang for loyalist or British soldiers during the Revolutionary War. Luthor is specifically alluding to Paul Revere's mythical midnight ride.

>>81322978
But in that scenario he survives. It's stupid, but he has a reason to let a shitton of people die: to maintain his power over humanity.

There is no possible scenario where Lex wins with Doomsday. It just fucking kills everything. Why in the world would he want that?

>>81312901
>>81312991
i think the shave is also symbolic
he has a lush full head of hair the whole movie and by the end where he's brought down by all the events in the movie he's bald

File: ssa.png (3MB, 1738x819px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1738x819px

>>81322978
pic related, lex gets literally infinite power and becomes god, on the condition that he does nothing evil with his power

his first move is to try and kill superman of course

>>81322811
Again, wrong. Just like in real life, if a bombing happens the first thing that gets found out is point of origin. People immediately knew that it was the crippled dude who blew the shit up, and only started QUESTIONING whether or not Superman had anything to do with it because Superman disappeared to go have himself a cry.

And anyone with a brain cell could figure out Superman would have no reason to blow them up. He's literally invincible, and unstoppable. If he wanted kill people he would've just punched all their heads off in the blink of an eye, and just told everyone who had a problem with it to fuck off. It was a terrible plan to set up Superman in which nobody would've fallen for it.

>>81313994
human and god, not god and whatever else. Human being the specific point.

>>81314112
>this movie is the cinematic equivalent of a concussion, but there is a lot of interesting shit bubbling beneath the surface
this is exactly how i felt.
i left completely certain that at the very least it did not deserve the shit it was getting and have been debating what's in it