Batman & Robin Eternal #26

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>Harper's volcano is better than everyone else's.
Holy fucking shit

>>81262243
>Supposedly Cassandra's new identity will be established in this issue.
I literally ughed at reveal.

Fuck this comic. Fuck it to hell.

>>81262336
yeah, I got a feeling /co/ will cringe at the name. Also, I'm surprised what Tynion did to Harper. I thought he loved that character.

>>81262449
Maybe they'll preparing her for solo book and her quirky adventures at whatever university she took. No matter, I thought issue will end in blood.

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>that Canary costume
Glad that got changed

>>81262559
Oh shit it's Talon. I wonder if Tynion will have him in Tec or Seeley will have him in Nightwing with the CoO shit

>>81262595
>LOL ITS JUST LIEK DA STAR WARS XD

>>81262559
>torn fishnets
Either battle damage or she loves to look like cheap prostitute.

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>>81262626
I hope Seeley does. His Talon issues were better.

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>>81262679
I've been told ripped clothing is a fashion style

She's gonna be Black Bird isn't she? Because Harper's Blue Bird?

>>81262860
>Scary Gay Batman
Sure. Close Enough.

>>81262933
Gotham realyl has blimps just floating all over the place?

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Even when she's leaving Harper we have to be told how great she is.

>>81262995
I'd totally be one of those sky pirates from Crimson Skies and steal all loot from those blimps.

>>81262997
Please die on your way back to your home planet.

>>81262995
Gotham City's 50% blimps, 50% abandoned factories

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This series was pretty shit. And what makes it wors is that it was meant to be a celebration of 75 years of robin.

>>81263062
This is so fucking stupid. Why not just use her old codename, Black Bat?

>>81263151
Because she's never been Batgirl or anything Bat related

>>81263151
Because she's clearly yellow.

>>81263127
It was doomed to be horrible. Any story that takes longer than ten issues will become overbloated.

>>81263175
So? She's joining the Batfamily so it makes sense.

>>81263186
52 was great, but DC will never have a weekly series that good again. I'm glad they're just sticking to twice a month with Rebirth.

>>81263186
This is wrong. And why do you even read big two comics if you feel this way?

this really sucked. way to sneak a harper row book into my reading list DC.

>>81263062
>Orphan
Dumb.

>>81263224
Oops, posted it wrong. Allow me to rephrase:
Any WEEKLY story that takes longer than ten issues will become overbloated.

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>>81263062
>Orphan
No wonder Batman approves, he probably wishes he thought of it first

>>81262860
>Scary gay Batman

kek
The only thing worth in this issue.

Well, Harper is put on a bus, but not dealt with decisively. Hopefully she will be forgotten.

>>81262595
Here the true Orphans, the daugthers of the Bat

Duke and Harper and this Orphan business are raising my blood pressure.

urgggggggggggg so bad.

Absolutely horrible.

>>81263402
this.

>>81263402
Well King wrote Duke pretty decently in Robin War. Except for the issue of Grayson where we're just told he's literally so great while we get shown the wualities of the other robins.

the comic is so bad..

I've lost the count of how many members Batfam have nowadays. It must be almost half of DCU heroes.

>>81263402
We get rid of Harper, I wish we get rid of Duke too.

>>81263512
I don't dislike Duke, I enjoyed Him when he was not a part of the immediate Batfamily. Him not technically being a Robin doesn't change a thing if he's exactly like the others in everything but name and skin tone I guess.

>>81262997
So after making the Robin 75th Birthday weekly completley about her sidelining all the other Robins and Batgirls DC decides to giveup on the character and essentially retire her forever in the final issue.
>WHAT THE FUCK

>>81263596
this !

>>81262536
Oh hey, Azrael.

>>81262493
That wouldn't have made the Old Cass even flinch.

No hug for the kids Bruce ?

>>81262741
Wow, Cass comes off as a real badass by beating up this old lady. Great booking.

>>81263716
New 52 Cass seems to have a thing for beating/killing defenseless women.

>>81262886
I bet that is exactly how Warren Ellis pitched the character in Stormwatch.

>>81263701
He hugged Cass and he's hugged Jason and Damian at least 3 times

>>81263062
For fuck's sake, why use the code name of your inane, mass murdering father and Mother's other brainwashed assassins? This is by far the worst name Cass has ever had.

Oh god Tynion has plans for Harper.

>>81262243
Man DC really needs to send out a fucking memo to their artists on how old Duke is supposed to me. Half the time he looks around 11-13, other times it's like he's a built af 20 year old, sometimes he looks like a grown ass man. It's so inconsistent that it's getting real obnoxious

>>81263615
>not a part of the immediate Batfamily
And this is the problem. That every new Gotham character have to be part of the Batfamily.

I honestly would have been more accepting of the new characters if they weren't related to Batman in some way or another. Like Harper is supposed to be the perfect "Robin" and Duke is going to be the "not Robin" in the main Batman book.

>>81263849
>artists drawing differently
Wow

>>81263843
It's official, I would not bother myself with detective comic.

>>81262860

I like that Midnighter is a part of the extended bat-family now.

Based on the title and the art we've seen so far, I'd expect Super Sons to be where Damian and Bruce get their father/son time. I'd like to see him get walk-ons in the other titles, maybe more so than the other Robins since presumably he's actually living at the Manor with Bruce and Alfred,.

>>81263793
>He hugged Cass
It's the other way. She is the one who hugged him.

>>81263946
oh god no !

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Fear not /co/, this is not the last time you see Harper!

>>81264035
KEK
E
K
No man escapes Harper Row.

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>>81264035

>>81262265
>even as a kid Harper is obnoxious

P O E T R Y

>>81263849
When Damian first was around, before Bruce died and Morrison had just kinda introduced him....he usually looked in his late teens. Swole and tall.

>>81263894
Shut your whore mouth, you get what I mean.
He looks like a kid in one book then an adult in the next book.

>>81263843
>>81263946
I like how a lot of the press for Tec is saying it's a "Bat family book" co staring Batman and Batwoman when we know it's all just going to focus in on Harper by the end of it.

>>81264035
Tynion writing Tim, Spoiler, Cass and now an unsolicited Harper Row,
>Outlaws is no longer the worst comic of the rebirth people.

>>81262351
>and harper will be joining me

but WHY. We're never given a good reason why Mother wants harper so badly. Does she know she's a fan favorite as well?

>>81264160
Don't forget Batman, Batwoman and Clayface too.

There's no way that comic won't turn into a complete clusterfuck.

>>81263266
>I'm the goddamn ORPHAN-MAN!
Tell me his costume, pretty please!!

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>>81264141
I wasn't planning on reading Tech, but hopefully she'll be quarantined there

And no justice for Colin Wilkes, a character with a cool power set who was ALSO AN ORPHAN with a working friendship with Damian

>>81264196
Harper Row is a fan favorite in every universe.

>>81264160
>Outlaws is no longer the worst comic of the rebirth people.
Who said it was?

DC, Titans, TT, Cyborg and GL books don't look promising at all.

>>81262643
Damian looks 17 here.

>>81264285
HEHEH LOVE YOU GUYS :)

i hate Harper Row and duke .

>>81263127
>make a weekly for Robins 75th
>sideline 3 of them and even the 1 people can't decide was Robin or not
>have the most popular Robin show up regularly to prop up another character
>make the weekly revolve about two characters that were never Robin
>one of those is used to prop up the other
>retire that character at the end of the weekly
>bring her back in an ongoing later

If I cared about the batfamily at all I wouldn't find this as funny as I do. Like holy shit, bad decisions everywhere.

>>81262664
>you don't understand Batman. You don't understand Robin

Is Dick talking to Tynion?

>81264270
I'm pretty sure Colin was in Lil Gotham a few times, at least.

>>81264317
>TT doesn't look promising
And why not?

This might be the most painfully bad comic I've read in a long time. I didn't even have to look at the text to know exactly what awful cliche they're spewing.

What happened to masketta man? I remember Bane getting mindfucked but no idea what happened next.

>>81264207
and its double shipping so by all accounts it could just be called 'Harper Rowe Eternal'.
>>81264317
Me, just because I'm an angry Jasonfag who was praying for a different writer.

I tried to read this series on desustorage, I got to issue six before I had to take a two day break
Maybe I'll try to finish today

>>81264381
You missed this year's X-Men?

>>81262817

Whelp... Cain went Darth Vader for Cassandra.

>>81264160
>Tynion writing Tim
Are Tim fans really ok with this? I honestly thought it was insulting to him to be included in Detective comic with that team. Not to mention that awful new costume they give to him.

>>81264434
I haven't been reading X-Men since AvX but one of the storytimes I skimmed through was pretty painful.

>>81264419
Anon do you have self esteem problems? Why are you punishing yourself like this? You need to practice better self care.

>>81264317
I don't have a reason to or look forward to TT other than TT being cursed, Damian will certainly inject youth and fun at least. I mean, he's not fun as a person but he's fun to read. I look forward to seeing him pissing off his whole team

>>81264454
>Are Tim fans really ok with this
I'm guessing most of them had their last dregs of hope killed off about mid 2014.

>>81264417
And who do you suggest to write Jason? At least he is still have book and Lobdell seem to care about him.

>>81264454
Timfags are just happy he's being included in a batbook and doesn't have the wings.

>>81264454
>>81264594
Almost anything has got to be better than Teen Titans.

>>81264407

Nothing. The Order of St. Dumas is still out there and still a threat.

>>81262777
I totally thought that was going to be it. Of course, that was also when I thought Harper was going to die saving Cass and killing Mother.

>>81264454
They're just happy he's getting better than Lobdells Titans with Booth art
They've fallen a long way since his solo days, they take what they can get

I hope this isn't me with Damian in a few years

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>>81264002
In Batgirl Vol. 2 she did, but he hugged her in this series.

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>>81264686

Dammit wrong pic.

I thought this was a pretty solid issue writing-wise, but kind of a letdown art-wise. I wish they'd had Pagulayan do the whole issue, but apparently Eaton is the only one who's fast enough and available to do bits and pieces on every issue.

>>81264567
My unrealistic favourite would have been Tomasi as I liked what he did with the character in AK: Genesis, but honestly I just wanted any change in author... Other than Tynion, Lobdell's written him for 5 years and I want him to be a deeper character than just the straightman to Roy or now Bizzaro's funnyman.

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>>81263062
>Orphan

>>81264638
He's no longer a main character in the Batline, thats how it usually begins.

>>81262707
>>81262724
>>81262741

I'll admit it. I knew this was coming. FINALLY someone beat the living shit out of Mother and only stopped for the dramatic "No" moment.

>>81264638
Dude he's having two team up books, one of them being TT. If they're well received and King's Batman is well received, then that is literally how it starts. Him being in the movies is the only thing that'll save him from being replaced like Tim was.

>>81264743

I know current his art style sucks, but fuck if they gave the four pages to Damion Scott and just draw what you drew best in Batgirl Vol. 1. Fuck it would have made this series worth it for those three pages.

>>81264868

Or a new animated series.

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>>81264797
>>81264868
SoB sold okay, why am I being punished again

>>81264751
Don't worry, I have a feeling that will give him a new writer after some time.

DC is just playing safe with rebirth and Lobdell is the safest writer for red hood right now.

>>81264797
>>Damian's death and resurrection are focused on for roughly a year
>>Only a few months after returning he's relegated to the stable of unimportant but still published Batman characters

>>81265023
So we can add Duke Thomas to the stable

>>81264945
I don't think that'll happen for a long time.
Even JL Action will probably just have a generic Robin without saying his first name.

Too bad Damian in the animated movies is shit.

>>81262643
Is that jim carrey?

>>81262379
>telling Grayson to be quiet
when will this bitch die already?

>>81262559
Calvin my boy

>>81262493
>I would have likely killed you either way
what was the fucking point of this book???

>>81262536
Huh, I forgot about him, and it's been just one week.

>>81266116
How else would we know how awesome Harper is and how tragic her story is compared to everyone else??

>>81264160
This is a containment book

>>81262559
Eh, could've just dropped in just Middy again. The rest of the guys weren't able to defeat even a single orphan before this.

>>81262595
threesome?

>>81262664
cue jasonfans bitching again

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>>81262243
>orphan

>>81263964
gay violent uncle

>>81264035
fuck you jt4

>>81266277
Every Robin fan except Dicks should be bitching, they got taken down by an elderly women in four on one combat.

>>81263110
Does Tynion not know how to build up a character without having someone else tell them "you're the best! you're better than me!"

>>81262885
Since when is Grayson such a party pooper?

>>81263512
what, duke got keikaku'd hard. he was acting all arrogant, while grayson was playing him like a fiddle

>>81262687
>"You don't understand Batman and Robin, and you never did!
>From the fans of DC to James Tynion and Scott Snyder

>>81264052
deathfalcon why are you on 4chan?

>>81266175
But I don't want it to be a containment book. Done well I think an extended bat-family book could be amazing.

>>81264160
>>81264317
>thinking that RHATO won't be complete shit when it's been like that for 5 years

Titans will be solid at least. the others have potential to be decent

>>81266314
I like it too. But I would like him less if Bruce claimed him as a ward and stuck him in a Robin unif-

fund it.

>>81266532
>Middy forces Dick into the pre-Flashpoint RObin outfit

>>81266374
jasonfags bitch the most though every time he isn't shown as some super elite fighter, because he has no value as a character otherwise

>>81266597
>middy forces bruce into the pre-Flashpoint robin outfit

>>81266501
Yeah Rebirth Titans is probably the most promising Titans book in a long time.

>Abnett, who is good at continuity and team books
>It being the 60s team instead of a NTT rehash
>Wally being teased
>DC actually wanting to push them instead of being content at them merely existing

Booth is the only major flaw right now until more details about the book pop up.
Titans Hunt is just boring which is a major step up from being awful and unnecessary like former Titans books.

>>81264035
As long as he contains her to his book

>>81262761

Dick's face is fucking melting.

>>81264035
If they're retiring Harper Row to put her back to her originally pitched role as Batman's young spunky Harold, then this is a legitimate good thing and I'm happy they made this decision.

>>81264454
Better than Lobdell

>>81263062
>Orphan
pft.

>>81262243
I wonder if the artist didn't know what this issue was going to be about when he put Harper out of focus in the background?

>>81266608
Every characterfag does that

Some CBR people had a meltdown over Dick jobbing to Cass pretty hard in the first issue, and some people on twitter complained to Seeley about Cass having a challenging opponent

>>81264899
That would have been pretty cool, yes. But other than doing some random covers, has Damion Scott done anything in the last five years?
>>81266386
Much as I like Tynion, he and at least Orlando in this book really do fall into this trap way too much.

>>81262473
>Electrical engineering is my superpower
FFS

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>>81264249

>Midnighter literally could have solo'd this shit
He shouldn't have been in this story

>>81266406
Since he became Leonardo.

>>81266677
titans hunt is just a mythos/retcon wankfest. abnett's good when he actually gets to write a plot, and not deal with the shit that came before, like he did with aquaman

>>81266887
why is he in this story? I get he's popular as a Grayson supporting character, I just don't get the logic of throwing him in an already bloated Batfamily book where all he really does is keep Harpers gay brother company.

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>>81266887
>they call Midnighter in issue 6 or something
>he takes out everyone and spares us from this awful weekly
What could've been.

>>81267026
because everything else in the book has been shit, so you might as well throw in some entertaining fanservice

>>81267026
Where Dick goes, Middy follows.

>>81266787
jasonfags literally think lobdell is good for the character, because he writes him like a fanfic character

>>81263062

>Orphan


Eh. I was expecting worse the way those guys where going on

>>81267005
>abnett's good
Nah. He might not be among the worst, but you're pushing it.

>>81263084
>>81263110

I'm salty that out of all the people who get to write a Bruce and Dick reunion, it's fucking Tynion. Not Snyder or King or Seeley or Tomasi. Fucking Tynion

>>81266645
With Midnigher part of the extended family and Dick's secret weapon, it seems only a matter of time before Bruce and Middy meet

Will they fight? Will Middy hit on him? Will both happen at the same time? I'm looking forward to that day so much

>>81267123
I'm a Jasonfag and gave up on Outlaws in mid 2013, the only person I know who really likes Lobdell is Dark_Tziz... something on CBR, and I'm pretty sure the poor guy has Stockholm syndrome he's been trapped reading him this long.

>>81267270
Middy hits on Dick in front of him

>>81263110
>I knew that you could face mother in a way I never could I knew you could defeat her.
>>81267053
>I knew you could call a superhuman fight computer man to beat up all the guys giving you trouble and hand you the win
>I could never do that

>>81263062
PfffBwahagagagagagagagagahahahahahahahahagagaaga

>>81267302
there's also this aahz guy who insists that lobdell is good for jason because he makes him look good. he also has trouble understanding grayson without narration boxes. people on CBR are frequently having to explain to him basic plot developments

>>81267302
Going by Red Hood/Arsenal sales there are a solid 20,000 who won't drop a Lobdell Jason book.

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>Be massive Cassfag
>Get excited she's coming back
>get this shitty story

I don't even mind the new name so much as all the Harper shit and the David business just depresses me

>>81263062

Of all the things to name herself after, he chooses the enemy? That's like if Batman called himself Crime Man.

I'm sure it sounded cool in the wine cooler fueled brainstorming session, but fuck.

>>81262595
> quoting star wars mid-fight
Where's my threesome ending

>>81264035

Go fuck yourself, Tynion. Fuck you and your Poochie.

>>81267524
It's on my pull, it's a fun generic action comic. Fun beat em up stories while quipping is what Lobdell can write pretty well

>>81264035
>tfw one of the plots is everybody drops everything to help Harper

>>81267690
What Star Wars quote?

>>81264743
>I thought this was a pretty solid issue

Solid shit, maybe.

>>81267123
My God, stop your obsession with Jason fans it's seriously getting annoying.

And who cares if they like Lobdell or not? Good for them if they are satisfied with how their favorite character is written. RHATO is for them and literally no one is forcing you to buy it or read it.

>>81267524
I feel there's a difference between being fans of a character and being willing to follow a bad run in the hopes it'll pick up or get a good writer, we all must have one that at some point, and people like >>81267469 mentioned who can delude themselves into thinking shit is actually gold. When I was stuck reading it I knew the book was no good, and left when it actually got worse and couldn't take it anymore.

>>81267750
Empire Strikes Back, right before Han's big freeze.

>>81267806
That explains it, it's been awhile since it aired on TV.

>>81266787
>some people on twitter complained to Seeley about Cass having a challenging opponent

Who, Helena or Harper? Neither of whom should be even able to touch her, if she was anything near her old self.

Cass is just incredibly fucking lame and unimpressive in this whole comic. Her main appeal used to be crazy fuckoff kung fu stunts in every issue, and she's done nothing of the sort in this whole comic. Only person she decisively beat was a seventy year old woman.

>>81267898
go away, batgirl_cc

>>81267898

I think the best way to look at old Cass versus new is to look at their first kills.

Old Cass:
>8 years old
>target is a mobster
>kills him unarmed by ripping his throat out

New Cass:
>14? years old
>target is a defenseless civilian woman
>needs a knife for even that

One of these is clearly less impressive than the other.

>>81267929

Shut the fuck up. batgirl_cc can't even spell right. My spelling is immaculate.

Cassandra Cain is a character who should be over the top. That is a central part of the concept, and a large chunk of why people liked her. You can't take it away and expect to be left with something that's equally appealing.

>>81267771
Red Hood and the Outlaws sales were sub-20,000 by the end after Tynion bled all the fans away, so there are definitely more people interested in Lobdell's Jason than Tynion's. RH/A went down to 22/21,000 quickly and stabilized there, even after the winter crash.

>>81267771
Why it's so hard to believe that there are people who loved the book and enjoyed it?

I myself enjoyed it because it doesn't take itself seriously and have some really funny and good emotional moments.

The action isn't bad either.

>>81263964
>I like that Midnighter is a part of the extended bat-family now.

Really? Why? He's the worst possible character to bring in. He's cool, but he makes everybody else 100% redundant. There's just no need to have this "Batman" or "Robin" nonsense when you have a character who's the same thing except fifty times stronger and without silly reservations regarding murder.

>>81268111
From what I've noticed people who enjoy Jason as a character dislike it, because it muddies his origin and the development for his personality and characterization sucks.

But as a standalone comic where the lore of the character doesn't matter, it works really well as itself. They're fun fantasy sci-fi comics with a lot of stuff happening, but a lot of that is dumb. Fun silly dumbness.

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At least the nightmare is over, right?

>>81268334
Yep, the weekly is over.

All you have to do now is ignore 'Tec.

>>81268334
It begins again in Detective Comics this June.
At least we'll have BatKing then too.

>>81268047
No one gave a shit about Tynion taking over because by that time every had already bashed Lobdell enough. Sales for RHATO dropped because Tynion took over after Death of the Family tie-ins, and because Rocafort (the only reason people pulled the book in the first place) left.

>>81268291
Eh, I see the opposite. It reads a lot like a 90s Image book with some tryhard "funny" dialogue. The only people who seem to like are the "Jason was right all along" crowd who want him to have "feats" for who would win circlejerks

>>81268423
Sales were still high even post-Rocafort and pre-crossover. No one liked Tynion's angst-fest, they wanted good-time hijinx.

>>81262265
>>81262299
>>81262329

Three pages for Harper's backstory at the start of the final issue.

Followed by eight more pages that revolve solely around Harper.

Then we get three pages that involve other characters... >>81262536 >>81262559

...And then we go right BACK to Harper: >>81262580

What the actual goddamn fuck, Tynion? This would be excessive if this was a Harper solo comic.

>>81268291
I actually like how chill Jason is lately. It's ten times better than how he was in the pre-Flashpoint where he was just a butthurt guy who's only propose is to antagonize the Batfamily.

And people need to realize that he isn't going to be the same as he was in UTRH. He has to MOVE ON.

>>81263402
I like Duke well enough in We Are Robin. I haven't been reading Snyder's Batman so I don't know how he's being portrayed there.

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I give up. All I wanted is to have a weekly about the ROBINS and I was excited to get Cass back. But this whole shit was just a cover for that punk bitch and destroying everything what made Cass somehow interesting and not generic as fuck.

And now they even have plans with that fucking Harper chick. I just wanted Cass back and not that abomination

>>81268539
Lobdell's issues were riding the New 52 wave. It takes a long time for sales to drop off, since stores order books 2-3 months in advance. Lack of crossovers, loss of Rocafort, and the damage Lobdell did to the title early on killed sales. When Lobdell came back, the book kept dropping. And Red Hood Arsenal needed variant covers to barely break 20k

>>81268674
UtRH was him at his most interesting though. He's redundant and dull as he is currently. He could use a new direction.

>>81264686
>>81264730
This shit made no sense

>>81268674
Too bad him moving on caused him to be one of the more redundant characters of the batfamily with no discernible traits besides drinking a lot

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>>81264686
>You are what you choose to be


SUPER MAN

>>81263062
> Orphan
The possibility occurred to me, but I din't think they'd be dumb enough to actually do it

>>81268674
Problem with Jason as a character is that his relevance is tied to the conflict between Batman and the Joker. He's a plot point, and doesn't really function as a character on his own.

If you think about it, UtRH really wasn't that great. It was a convoluted mess thanks to Infinite Crisis, and only worked as a story when the movie came out and streamlined several things. But unlike comics, the movie didn't have to follow up on what happens to Jason afterwards. The comics, however, did but had no idea what to do with him, which is how he ended up in shit like Countdown. The only writer who used him effectively was Morrison, who crafted him into a foil for Dickbats, complete even with his own sidekick. He showed just enough humanity, but at the same time was a true villain. And Morrison used him to deconstruct the idea of "Punisher Bats".

Following Jason's only good comic story, there was a lot of mediocrity. Tumblurinas hated what Morrison did with the character, because he was no longer sexy. Judd Winick tried to give the character another shot, but all he was able to do is write a worthless prequel that George Lucas would be proud of, and try to restore Jason's "sexiness" by having him flirt with gangbangers in prison.

Then came the New 52. It was right after the UTRH movie came out, so of course DC just HAD to have a Red Hood book in the stands. On paper, it made sense to capitalize on a successful animated movie. Unfortunately, DC handed the book to an out-of-touch writer who only had a job due to nepotism, and overnight, Jason went from a solid B+ antagonist of a few select stories, to a D- protagonist, who whined about not being as good as big brother and spouted cliched 90s one-liners unironically. The run was disastrous, only slightly helped by Batman crossovers. But Lobdell did enough damage to the point where DC isn't even bothering to put any other writer on the title to give it a kick in the teeth.

>>81267215
The real reunion will happen later.

Alright so that's:
Bruce Wayne
Dick Grayson
Barbara Gordon
Kate Kane
Jason Todd
Tim Drake
Cassandra Cain
Stephanie Brown
Damian Wayne
Dinah Lance
Calvin Rose
Lucas Trent
Harper Row is definitely coming back
Cullen Row too, probably
Duke Thomas
Helena Bertinelli is going full Huntress soon
Helena Wayne is still running around?
Jean-Paul Valley is Azrael

All that's left is Bette Kane to come back as Flamebird, and Michael Lane's Azrael

>>81269443
That's a potential 20 Batfamily members, Jesus that's a lot

>>81263062
OOOOORPHAAAANS NAMIDAAAAAAAAA

>>81269443
>Helena Wayne is still running around?
She's on Earth-2. Can somebody please rescue her and Peej?

>>81269560
Abnett's doing damage control, it's getting better.

>>81267026
Because Dick uses him as his trump card. I have to wonder when Middy is going to start charging him for his services. I'm sure some form of payment plan could be worked out if you get what I am saying

>>81269694
gayment plan

>>81267536
Now Cass will be tied to Harper Row and if she ever gets a book you know she'll just be hanging out with Harper every once in a while and she'll call her her best friend/

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>>81269736

It could have been Steph who was her buddy.

>>81269409
I think a solo monthly under a reasonably competent writer would fix most of the problems, and allow him some needed character development, and it has more chance of succeeding than a bi-weekly Cyborg does anyway

>>81269443
>Dinah
I wouldn't call someone part of the bat family just because she's on a team with Babs, Dinah never even really liked Batman. By that logic Beast Boy should also be counted.
>Calvin Rose
I really doubt Talon will make more than a couple cameos at best. I was honestly surprised we saw him here
>Middy
I think he'll have more of a Nightwing supporting role than actually being a part of the bat family
>Harper
I'll agree she's superfluous and should stay gone
>Cullen
counting him is DEFINITELY pushing it. Should we count Barbara's roommates?
>Duke
See Harper
>2 Helenas
Only one is going to be sticking around, I promise you
>Azrael
I don't think we'll be seeing him again either. He was a nod to Knightfall in BRE, but no one is exactly asking for more of him

Get rid of all that and you're down to 10, which is honestly not that hard to manage.

>>81269965
>I don't think we'll be seeing him again either. He was a nod to Knightfall in BRE, but no one is exactly asking for more of him
Tynion has a hard on for 90s Batman so Az will probably be in 'Tec

>>81269916
He would need a hook to drive the story. He can't just be "former dead Robin who was killed by the Joker". That hook only works for a contained story. It's part of why Lobdell's run was shit, because he didn't add anything worthwhile to the character. Instead he retconned Jason's origin into being a pawn of the Joker.

A new writer would have to come up with an angle for the character that allows him flexibility in storytelling.

>>81270017
>Instead he retconned Jason's origin into being a pawn of the Joker.
Which is hilarious when you see that Dick was almost Talon and Damian is from League of Assassins. Three of four Robins are trained by villains.

>>81270017
Yep
One of the problems with Jason now is nobody knows what to do with him, because DC wants him with the batfamily so his book can be in crossovers. They realize Jason killing should be a problem with the entire batfamily except for Damian maybe, so they either don't address it or have him not kill.

Grayson managed to take Dick's personality and skill set and put it in a setting where he had an interesting conflict for him that also fits the world he was in, and it seems to be continuing in Seeley's Nightwing.

Jason needs something like that, but DC seems all too content with him being Lobdell containment.

>>81270113
And Tim used to be trained by Shiva

>>81270182
Yeah, but not in New 52. Right?

>>81270017
Could always do what I thought Outlaws was going to be when it was announced and have them be globe trotting mercenaries, who kill warlords and other scumbags worse than they are, just make it less 80s action movie and have an overall darker direction. Maybe make it a mature? Most people reading comics are adults anyway and they'd be able to get away with more.

>>81264952
So did Robin
And Red Robin
And Preboot Teen Titans
Yet here we are.

>>81269736
Well, we can all hope that Harper dies on the way back to her home planet, given the way her storyline ends here.

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>>81269890
I'm sure Steph will be her new buddy in Detective Comics. Hopefully? Pretty please DC?

>>81269254
Given the character of n52|Cass, it's even fine, trying to redeem her father.

The biggest difference here is that pre-FP!Cass found a reason d'etre in The Bat.
Here she's "just a good girl forced to do bad things".

She's not a bad character... just BORING compared to the previous incarnation

>>81270182
Tim was trained 80% of the time by villains or amoral people.

>>81270235
Tim hasn't had any focus on his backstory beyond what Lobdell did

>>81269996
>>81269965
Yup. Tynion's said Azrael will be showing up in his 'Tec run.

>>81270467
Which was have him get raped by Raven.

>>81269409
>Problem with Jason as a character is that his relevance is tied to the conflict between Batman and the Joker. He's a plot point, and doesn't really function as a character on his own.
I disagree. He has a potential and can stand on his own. UtRH is his story and he was the reason that made it very popular.

The problem is that it's pretty obvious that dc was suprised with Jason's popularity after UtH (Winnik pretty much said so) and didn't have any plans on what to do with him. Which is why he was such a mess in the pre-reboot.

Him being a mess created another problem which is his fanbase. They are very divided on what they want Jason to be (hero, antihero, villain...etc) and dc can't satisfied them all.

I agree that the UtRH movie is what saved Jason and made dc acknowledge that he has fanbase and he is here to stay.

And to be honest, I don't think he is currently in bad place. I mean, he has his own book which is more to say than many dc characters.

>>81263262
52 was divine though

>>81270325

It's fucking Tynion writing. 'Tec will be 80% Harper just like BRE. I don't think he fucking understands that people hate his pet OC.

>>81270576

Even 52 wasn't that great, it just wasn't blatantly bullshit like every other weekly.

>>81270576
Fuck yeah. Booster saving everything, island of crazy scientists, Adam depopulating Bialya... pure sex.

>>81270485
goddammit, I was hoping 'tec could be good. Why can't Tynion avoid terrible ideas?

>>81269996
>Tynion has a hard on for 90s Batman
And yet he completely fucks over Tim and Steph

>>81270899
Because he's a "90s kid" who only even made it into the industry due to cronyism

>>81270366

Nu52 Cass is an X-23 ripoff (ironic, since X-23 was a Cass ripoff). They have dumbed the concept down to "assassin girl, trained by bad people, talks little". Just the surface of it.

Original Cass had an interesting dichotomy to her: She loved the act of killing, but hated the thought of people dying. It didn't even occur to her that there was something wrong with murder until she 'read' her first victim and experienced death from his point of view. She was totally fine with being turned into a human weapon, was proud of it even. She loved her dad, and her dad loved her, and they only fell out because she knew what death really meant and he, despite dealing it all his life, didn't. There were ideas here, bigger than "chick, knows kung fu, mopes a bunch".

>>81270549
>He has a potential and can stand on his own. UtRH is his story and he was the reason that made it very popular.
UtRH is also Batman and Joker's story. Jason's actions in that story are only significant because of what they mean to Batman. His role in that story is similar to that of say.... Two-Face. But Two-Face wouldn't really work as a solo character.

>>81271277
It's called under the RED HOOD.

It's his story and batman and the joker roles were pretty much related to him.

>>81271176
>She loved the act of killing,
No, she didn't. She did love fight, and she was fine with hurting others, but she didn't love "to kill".

That said, everything else is true...

Cass was a death-machine, born and bred, a Samurai Warriors character in a Arkham game(I still want her be EXACTLY THAT in the next Arkham game.)

>>81263384
Yes, two fatherless, the other motherless.

The 2 are known here again, Steph and Cass, together again in Detective Comics in June.

>>81271870

If only that comic was written by somebody non-retarded, and didn't have all those unnecessary characters, and was set during the non-shitty continuity years ago.

>>81263127
>if we finish on a shot of Batman and the Robins it'll look like the book was about them

>>81269177
I bought the two pages just a few days ago from Takara himself.

>>81272065
It's like when you write a terrible school essay, completely lose track of what it was supposed to be about, and then try to bring it back at the end of the conclusion

>>81262536
>>81262559
When did Jean Paul get revived? Also, how?

>>81265023
DC have been slowly erasing all traces of Morrison's run since Inc. ended. Grayson and SOB's cancellation will be the final nail in the coffin.

>>81272411

He didn't. He got reintroduced like Cass in this series. He's a rogue agent of St. Dumas and will be showing up in the Grayson Annual in July.

>>81272411
>>81272468
Hey remember when they tried to make jpv a regular bat family member back in the late 90s and it sucked?

>>81271870
>>81271981
and not written with faggoty harper row

>>81272535
> Agent of the Bat.

The Cass portions and the struggle he had with his other persona were about the best things about that era. When he cracked and went full breakdown.

>>81272646
Tynion said he has future plans for Harper. Maybe if we're lucky he'll get replaced before he gets a chance to put them into play. Based on the ending of BRE, I'm sure there'll be at least a brief reprieve from her.

>>81272698
I just remember him being the worst part of no man's land

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So I'm just gonna assume that Harper will one day become the new Oracle with that Scholarship and Cassandra will eventually drop the Orphan gig and become either Black Bat or Batgirl a few years down the road, considering she's already wearing her old mask sans ears here.

>>81272710

In a perfect world he'd be fired or sent to a containment title and some actually competent writer would be given free reign to handle 'Tec, liberally redoing Nu52 continuity to resemble pre-Nu52 in the progress.

We clearly don't live in a perfect world though. We live in a world where real characters have to take backseat to worthless Z-listers.

>>81266887
I agree with you, but at the same time he was the only good thing about this book

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>>81272970

Cass really needs a scarf or something to go along with that ensemble around the collar. Just as is it looks like a Ronin knock-off.

But.. if this is slowly turning her into a modified Batgirl costume. Then I've got no issues with that. I just think it's a sad waste of this bat insigna and costume if Cass wore it.

I mean just think if she had the belt and mask-less face with this outfit? SHIT that be cash.

>>81267026
Since this shit actually sells better than his book, hopefully Middy being the only charismatic character in this story will help his solo a bit.

>>81264160
>Tynion writing Tim, Spoiler, Cass and now an unsolicited Harper Row,
So Tim and his soon to be Harem?
I mean that's what it basically was pre-New 52. Even Ravager wanted that dick.

>>81273115
Nope, Harper and her harem.

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>>81273106
Or this with the faceless batmask.

>>81267633
It wasn't even a cool name when nu52 David Cain had the name.

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>>81273138
Ugh. I have the feeling Harper is gonna be Cass' new Steph. Man that sucks.

>>81273138

At this point it's true. So can Cullen have Tim or has he upgraded to Midnighter?


Wait a tec.. Midnighter has slowly gotten his own harem!!!

> Dick, Prometheus, Cullen, Deadshot, and Apollo.

>>81273217

Given that Steph and Cass are together, it be a wasted oppurtunity not to have Cass/Steph become better friends as they did previously.

At this point, have Harper be Cass's Barbara or Kate. SUPERIOR Kate.

>>81273106

I have no idea why the fuck they made Gordon wear that costume if the ultimate plan wasn't to give it to Cass. It's literally a male-cut version of Cass's original costume, sans cape.

Then again, Nu52 writers have randomly given Cass's things to other characters before. Remember how early Nu52 Nightwing made a big deal about Dick's talent for "reading" people? Just completely out of nowhere?

>>81269443
>Lucas Trent
Just no. I hate that some people insist on calling Middy that, especially tumblr.

>>81273217

I wish Harper was a real person so I could kill her for stealing my waifu's waifu.

>>81273223
I approve of this.

>>81273258
Hmm true. And isn't Rebirth basically a retcon to change things back into pre-Nu52?
Their friendship was a huge thing for Cass' character, so much that she was the last thing she saw before she 'died' in her ongoing.

>>81273258
>it be a wasted oppurtunity not to have Cass/Steph become better friends as they did previously.

I genuinely don't think Tynion knows what the fuck he's doing enough to understand that that's what people want. He seems like the type who does things differently for the sake of doing them differently, with no regard to whether it's actually a good idea or not. "It's a brand new universe! We should have Batman murder his parents! That'll be a twist on the formula!"

>>81273269
Honestly I doubt she won't eventually get a batsuit. We have to take into account that she's just starting out now. Maybe by next year she's already living with Bruce and gets a Batsuit because she decides that her path is to become the new Batman one day. You know like back in the day.

>>81273367
>And isn't Rebirth basically a retcon to change things back into pre-Nu52?

No. It would be if DC was not so fucking stubborn and stupid, but it's not. They still think we'll love Nu52 if they just give it a paint job and put some token superficial similarities in.

>>81273367
>And isn't Rebirth basically a retcon to change things back into pre-Nu52?
It's just a relaunch where many of the books will be taking elements from the pre-Nu52, but the continuity is still mostly New 52. The only one who actually seems to be reverting back and being completely replaced by their older version is Superman (and even so they're still counting the Convergence related stuff).

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>>81273445
They're definitely making at least a token effort. You can tell from stuff like them reintroducing Oracle into Barbara's canon.

>>81273681
Well and maybe Raven, seeing as they are changing her design again to look more like her previous version.

>>81273684
That's probably why they brought back Cassandra at all too. As part of that token effort.

>>81262243
Have not read this yet, but...Nu52 wanted to slim down the Batfam a bit, and well what has it done in a couple short years in expand it, and unfortunately not do some characters justice(Cass/Steph/Tim), then add in a real off character of Harper. I find it weird, and a little disappointing.

>>81269694
Where is viceroy, someone get this plot to them

>>81273916
I don't have anything against Harper per se but the comics ride her dick way too hard. I find it weird how people complained about Cassandra that hard in the old 52. She wasn't remotely as pushed as Harper was.

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>>81273870
>That's probably why they brought back Cassandra at all too. As part of that token effort.

Yeah. Brought her back.

Even if they hadn't fucked up her introduction so damn hard, I would still be upset that it took them so fucking long. She literally should have been a part of Nu52 from day one. She's big enough. Anyone who held a solo title for seven years is by definition big enough.

Now they come crawling back to me with their half-assed effort, after going so far as to erase her from background cameos, and I just want to stomp their fucking teeth in. Bunch of pieces of shit. I'm glad your fucking company is getting its ass blown out by Marvel every day. Die.

>>81272970
My only hope for TEC is that Harper won't be immediately joining it. God willing, Tynion will be able to do a half-competent job without his Harper-boner sucking all the blood from his brain.

>>81274198
>My only hope for TEC is that Harper won't be immediately joining it.

I'm sure Tynion will contain his erection for one or two issues.

After that the comic will be renamed Harper Row and The Detective Comics Starring Harper Row.

>>81274163
Tell us how you really feel

Im confus and also new to DC, wasn't Bruce dead and the new bat man was Dick/Gordon?

>>81274326
I'm sure we'll at least get a single arc without her. After that though it's open season

>>81274163
They didn't bring her back because some people DC actually hated her and wanted her gone as Batgirl even if she had a successfull ungoing for seven years.
Why do you think she was also absent from other Batman media or even fucking Injustice, a DC fighting game where she would have been right at home (and not fucking Babs)?

>>81274326
So is Harper DC's version of Miles Morales?

>>81272985
I liked his work in Constantine, DC should let him stay doing it.

>>81274445
People willingly buy Miles comics.

>>81274763
And he's harmless in the Avengers book he's in.

>>81274445

No, the difference is some people actually like Miles.

>>81274763
Whoever buys something Bendis writes willingly belongs in a concentration camp.

>>81274890
I'm pretty sure Harper has her fans. Tumblr for example must love her.

>>81274802
he's quite fun in Totally Awesome Hulk, though.

>>81274987
They don't, other than wanting her to be in a group with Steph and Cass.

>>81274964
Well sure, but the people still exist is my point.
>>81274987
Tumblr has limited patience for characters other than Steph and Cass taking panel time from the boys.

>>81274987

Idk about tumblr but Reddit adores Harper with a passion. They're complaining about how DC is shafting her by not putting her in more books.

>>81276118
>Tumblr has limited patience for characters other than Steph and Cass taking panel time from the boys.
Well it seems they have a BIT of taste then.

>>81263041
>Leave this life.
What the hell, Bruce, what do you expect her to do?

>>81276435
Now you're just making shit up. the dc comics subreddit fucking HATES Harper except for a few people who are the exception.

>>81264035
Well this makes me feel better about deciding not to read Detective Comics

>>81274062
In the middle of a Catman/Midnighter thing. Besides I already did one shitty fic from B&R:E, I refuse to be further party to it.

>>81274987
/co/ once again proving they know nothing about the website they obsessed over. If you think they prefer a female character over a handsome boy then you know nothing Mr snow


>>81278065
Respect. I look forward to that even more.

>>81278065
>Besides I already did one shitty fic from B&R:E, I refuse to be further party to it.

link?

>>81280595
http://archiveofourown.org/works/6385813

>>81273316
I was using the secret identity names for everyone else, felt weird to just leave it as "Midnighter."
Didn't want to use the superhero names cause I refuse to call Cassie by that new shit name

>>81278065
Not even a little Harper/Stephanie/Cass threesome action?

>>81273269
Dick always had that skill, though. Just never to that extent, mostly because when it was time to powercreep detective abilities, they made Tim the detective. Then came Cass who had that ability but at a whole other level.

Dick's ability to read people was brought back, as part of the New 52 buff and continued into Grayson, Cass was nerfed right as she entered in BRE but still kept her abilities as a fighter,which is why she's still above Dick and Bruce as a fighter. That's it.

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>>81274163

you know if this is the quality of book bringing her back amounts to I really can't in good consciences support. Im a huge characterfag and adore her but well this isn't good. I can't say this is okay because if I support it for her face alone she's only gonna get worse.

She has 7 years of stories already and a good chunk of them are pretty damn good. Im happy to reread my old comics. Especially now that we got some pretty nice reprints coming. Im done.

>>81285685
Someone should report Tynion for making terroristic threats on his twitter.

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>>81286847
Vol 2 of Batgirl v1 is getting released July 26!

>>81273445
>muh Wally
>muh important waifu
Fuck off.

>>81287202

I got the first collection. Haven't sat down with it yet but it's pretty nice.

>>81268423
>No one gave a shit about Tynion taking over because by that time every had already bashed Lobdell enough

Are you kidding me? People were angry as fuck by what Tynion was doing with the book and he only did one arc.

I miss Kelley Puckett

>>81269409
>He's a plot point, and doesn't really function as a character on his own.

He works entirely fine as a protagonist as long as you set him to be working from the sidelines to the Bat-family, where they've made up but he doesn't just hang out in Gotham, like what the New 52 has done. Pre-Flashpoint Jason was inconsistent because they didn't know if people wanted him as a straight up bad guy (which with repeated use and time would just lose all its appeal) or sort of an anti-hero, which is why you got a bunch of stories where he's switching between the two. Flashpoint was a good way to jump right into when he's a hero again and develop him from there instead of writing stories where writers try to "fix" him. Now he's found his niche and it's pretty comfortable position for him.

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>>81287803
I miss Chuck Dixon, even if his handling of Cassandra was kind odd sometimes.

>>81263849
>artis
he supposed to be 15.

>>81263856
yeah, he gonna be in all-star-batman, and maybe Batman. I've read a rumor: Duke Thomas will be Batman’s “Robin” and @TomKingTK will explore what that means to Damian.