Can we 100% now say that 2D animation is dead?

>>81225596
No, Jon Snow, we cannot.

>>81225596
Not if the majority of quality current cartoons have anything to say about it.

>>81225596
2D animated films maybe
But we still have a ton of 2D animated television shows on different networks to declare it dead

>>81225596
For movies, yeah. 3D is apparently much cheaper to do. I can't really recall any 2D animated movies in recent times that weren't shit, that is

But as it is right now, TV series are still dominantly 2D.

>>81226678
>3D is apparently much cheaper to do
Not even close.

It just draws much bigger audiences and allows for easier editing.

>>81226692
Easier editing means more people can do it, and there is less manpower put into it. Hence, cheaper.

Also, because the market is dying, everyone new breaking into the industry goes for 3D. Theres a surplus of those goons, and the only really decent 2D animators are old dudes who cost gorillions of dollars. Last I checked Glen Keene was getting paid like... 9 million dollars a year to do fucking whatever he wanted at Disney.

I want Illumination Animation to be dead

>>81226742
Its not cheaper though
Its easier to edit, but you lose the advantage in the massive costs in rendering and effects like fur, water, ect

>>81227155
>Lose advantage

You're joking right? Sure, it might take 29 hours to render one frame of Sully (Monsters Uni), but like like, that's infrastructure that's already in place, that you've already got a massive render farm on.

3D is a difficult to initially set up, yes, but once you have the infrastructure, it becomes relatively cheap to maintain.

Saged because you know fuck all about 3D and 2D production.

>>81227513
>implying any mantinence of computer systems is cheap
Not to mention people to debug issues, check frames for errors and then trouble shoot those errors. Its "easier" from an animation stand point maybe, but it opens up another can of worms.
And it is just flat out more expensive. Just look it up dude, the heads of disney/dreamworks or whatever aren't shy about saying that 2D is cheaper by far

>>81226742
It's not cheaper. It costs between 1.5-2x as much.

File: 1444360427851.jpg (58KB, 703x536px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 703x536px

>>81227513
>Saged because you know fuck all about 3D and 2D production.

>>81225596
Do we still have /a/?
If we still have /a/, then there must be 2d animation.
and if there is 2d animation, then it is not dead.

>>81225596
Nothing has changed in the last 10 years, 2D remains dead. So yes we can.

>>81226678
Didn't Song of the Sea come out last year?

>>81225596
People say something like this often and I'm just not sure if they're talking about Western animation exclusively or all animation. "2D animation is dead" seems to indicate the latter, in which case you'd be completely wrong. Japan is not only producing more animation than the US, but nearly all of it is 2D.

>>81227513
If you just look at the budgets for Disney's 2D movies vs. their 3D ones (and 3D ones by other studios) you'll see the latter are more expensive.

>>81225596
>sing

Someone tell me what the appeal of this movie is. The character design is meh tier at best, and the premise looks really awful.

>>81230597
It has singing furries, that's it

Seth MacFarlane is the villain apparently

>>81230597
It's an attempt to mooch of Zootopia's money.
while having none of the charm that movie had.

>>81230721
CGI animated movies are usually 3 years in production, so I really doubt that

>>81230721
Animal characters were not invented by Zootopia.

>>81230789
yes your right, however, it seems really weird to me that these two movies about animal societies just so happened to be released near the same year, doesn't it?

>>81230861
No, animated movies about animals are super common

>>81231349
In 2016 out of 15 western animated movies only 3 DON'T feature talking animals

>>81231490
You're right anon, everyone stole disney's production documents years ago and made their own animated movies with animals
Its a conspiracy

>>81227513
this anon is right its cheaper and faster to the experienced animator

>>81227564
still cheaper, bugs that they cant fix themselves would be few with stable computers and knowledge
programs like maya are constantly updating to fix small bugs and add new tools

>If you just look at the budgets for Disney's 2D movies vs. their 3D ones (and 3D ones by other studios) you'll see the latter are more expensive
choosing to invest more does not mean it costs more, the budget could be going to many other things, senior animators, celebrity VAs, advertising, ect
just generally splurging more because theyll confidently rake in more

>>81231517
I was trying to support your response retard

>>81225833
>majority of quality current cartoons
so none?

>>81231557
Ok, thank you you cum guzzler
:)

>>81231522
*>>81229771
>If you just look at the budgets for Disney's 2D movies vs. their 3D ones...

>>81231557
>>81231578
Ladies, knock it off!

>>81231522
>still cheaper, bugs that they cant fix themselves would be few with stable computers and knowledge
Because things always work right? Especially with complex software and hardware systems and bringing assets between dozens of different programs and people working on each aspect.
It doesn't. And Autodesk rarely makes updates that don't break things
You could argue that the costs are from them investing in technology, but thats what you need to do to create a visually impressive 3D animation,

>>81231675
Well I take it back, you CAN make it cheap, but then it looks like Norm of the North or worse.

>>81231522
It's a lot more likely that 3D movies just cost more. They have consistently higher budgets, even an order of magnitude higher.

2D will always provide a stylistic advantage that CGI can't match.

Doesn't mean it will always be used that way, but it's hard for CGI to not look like any other CGI movie.

It can also be done on really tight budgets if you don't mind it looking like shit, but it's still an option when cheap CGI isn't a thing.

>>81231706
Here's how I view it.

3D in general isn't more expensive than 2D, but making 3D actually look good is.

I could be wrong though, it's just a theory.

>>81231785
Kind of right
You can fuck off about having a unique style and just buy all your assets and just use stock lighting and barely animate it and call it a day
But also you can make no budget 2D as well (ATHF and canadian flash shit)
And the 2D will probably look better anyway
Basically, for the same quality, 3D costs more

>>81231733
>but it's hard for CGI to not look like any other CGI movie.
i disagree, its just more of an issue of people just copying other styles
Same thing happened with 2D and everyone copying disney and/or don bluth styles
Rango, Lego Movie, Frozen and Tron uprising all look vastly different despite all being 3D Its just producers wanting a blander style to appeal to maximum amount of people to get that cash money

>>81231785
3D in general is just expensive.

The only money saved is on korean animators doing most of the hard work, but otherwise most of the industry relevant jobs are still there and CGI requires monster workstation computers to render that shit and those are easily five figure machines. If you've already got the setup to do either 2D or 3D, the costs are probably comparable.

>>81231733
Rango and the Cloudy Meatball movies prove it can be done, but they are outliers.

>>81231522
>choosing to invest more does not mean it costs more, the budget could be going to many other things, [...] advertising
Movie budgets only list production costs. Advertising goes under a separate marketing budget.

>>81231863
But even with more money it doesn't always work out.

Frozen had 150 million in it's budget, and it's animation is okay at best. Though I'd probably blame that more on Disney's awful planning skills.

>>81231733
not even DW movies like Shrek, Madacasgar, Rise of the Guardians and Croods look the same

>>81231675
its costs more to set up but it pays off over time

lets say you have a team of 24 animators, that all get payed 3k a month, yeah? (the average for many places)
say a 3d movie takes 4 months less time to create than a 2d
thats 4 months of 24 paychecks you save = $288,000 per movie, more than enough for repairs and then some
and this is just low-balling it

>>81231973
Well yeah, money is just money, its not magic. Though a lot of Frozen's budget went into its long production and their snow technology (which is fucking amazing)

>>81232063
but they don't take less time to make because you add so many more steps into production.

>>81232063
well what if they work harder

even without the whole money debate, skilled 2d animators are a dying breed

>>81232063
Per frame, CGI is several times more expensive. This comes into play heavily with high quality CG that has an assload of frames to not look like shit.

The only upside is once you go through the immense trouble of making whatever model you need to use, you can re use that model to your hearts content rather than redrawing a character every time.

>>81232101
>but they don't take less time to make because you add so many more steps into production
the actual animating picks up the slack for that

>>81232111
>well what if they work harder
i guess? but thats just the team then
its kind of unfair to expect one team to work much harder and faster than the other, especially for such a precise work

>>81232156
In the West, yes. In Japan, no.

Are you people just talking about the West or are you not even aware that anime exists?

>>81232353
>implying anime hasn't blown ass for over a decade now

Before you sperg out about how awesome attack on titan or kill la kill is, a couple exceptions doesn't mean their entire industry isn't a shit.

>>81232217
>the actual animating picks up the slack for that
it really doesn't, animation is just a small part of a much bigger machine
Its a huge process that requires many more people per frame to do the modelling, rigging, texturing, character effects (cloth and hair and such) for just character animation.
Look into how 3DCG is made before you just throw around assumptions.

>>81232156
sadly this, people dont shell out the money for 2D animators so the schools get smaller and that means there's less skilled animators out in the world
I think we'll see a reversal if 3D movies ever stop printing money

>>81232353
Nigga this is /co/, its implied we're talking about western stuff. But even then, the quality has gone down outside of outliers due to the ever cheapening quality of anime production

>>81232353
it should be fucking obvious that on /co/ we talk about western animation, of course I fucking know anime exist, goddamn you fucking weebs

>>81232353
>Only talking about western animation on the board for western animation.

Yeah, how dare we.

>>81232407
>implying anime hasn't blown ass for over a decade now
It hasn't. That's a myth.

>>81232429
>Nigga this is /co/, its implied we're talking about western stuff.
It's not always clear that people are doing so. When someone says "2D animation is dead," it seems like an absolute, universal statement.

>>81232461
I'm not a weeb. What makes you think I am one? Do you even know what the word means?

File: average modern anime.jpg (32KB, 500x313px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 500x313px

>>81232585
>go onto the wrong board
>"HEY GUIZE DON'T YOU KNOW HOW KICK ASS ANIME IS"
>"no i'm totally not a weeb"

>>81232684
>go onto the wrong board
But I didn't.

>"HEY GUIZE DON'T YOU KNOW HOW KICK ASS ANIME IS"
I never said anything like that.

>"no i'm totally not a weeb"
I'm not, and you completely failed to prove otherwise. You just made things up at random.

>>81232684
>average modern anime.jpg
Nonsense.

>>81232743
just fucking stop replying

File: please kill me.png (242KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

242KB, 640x480px

>>81232407
This.
Coming from someone who really likes anime, the industry's been in a HUGE slump for a while now.
>shows that are generic or even absolute dogshit have fanservice and waifu pandering
> NEET faggots and /a/ watch it because "M U H W A I F U" is their only requirement for any show to be good or watchable
>said shows usually earn money from people spending dosh on merch
>said show usually ends up being successful, with exceptions
See Monster Musume, Kancolle, and To Love Ru for examples.

>>81232777
Why?

>>81232809
> the industry's been in a HUGE slump for a while now.
It hasn't. This is a myth.

>shows that are generic
Generic is a meaningless buzzword.

>fanservice
Been around since the 80s.

>waifu pandering
No such thing exists.

> NEET faggots and /a/ watch it because "M U H W A I F U" is their only requirement for any show to be good or watchable
Why do you need to try to prop up your argument by appealing to what you think /a/ watches and what you think their motives for doing so are?

>said shows usually earn money from people spending dosh on merch
Late night anime is not supported by ad revenue like daytime anime, it's supported by purchases. Disc sales are still the standard metric for a show's success. And what does it matter that a show earns money through merchandising?

>said show usually ends up being successful, with exceptions
Nearly every show has merchandise. Daytime shows included.

File: naruto-quality.gif (2MB, 320x180px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 320x180px

>>81232904
>"It's a myth, It's a myth, It's a myth, It's a myth,"

I really don't feel like spending the whole thread posting the long list of examples of the general decline of anime, so continue wallowing in your delusions I guess.

File: 1441094639672.png (140KB, 482x679px) Image search: [Google]

140KB, 482x679px

>>81232684
>that pic

>>81232999
>"It's a myth, It's a myth, It's a myth, It's a myth,"
When something is a myth there is no reason why it cannot be pointed out that it is, in fact, a myth.

>I really don't feel like spending the whole thread posting the long list of examples of the general decline of anime
Whatever. It's plainly obvious from your previous post that you don't have even the slightest idea what you're talking about. You're just parrotting tired old talking points you've picked up from other people.

>>81232809
This.
>Coming from someone who really likes anime, the industry's been in a HUGE slump for a while now.
Honest question: what do you think the quality of anime in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s was? Do you honestly think it was all Gunbuster, Cowbow Bebop, and Gurren Laggan? It wasn't, most animes that surrounded those gems were the same as those benign, generic bores that come out now.
Honestly go look at the series that surrounded Bebop and Trigun, for everyone of those you could name I can name about five Momorio Sisters and Alice SOS.

File: hard luck woman.png (1MB, 1395x994px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1395x994px

>>81233553
At least the trash was hand drawn back then.

The overall quality of everything declined once it became easier to be lazy, western or weebshit.

Obviously most things weren't bebop tier back then and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to take off the nostalgia goggles for a minute.

File: 0001082986.jpg (121KB, 500x353px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 500x353px

>>81233650
>At least the trash was hand drawn back then.
Yeah, computers totally draw anime now

>>81233650
>At least the trash was hand drawn back then.
This is another popular myth. Anime is still hand-drawn.

>The overall quality of everything declined once it became easier to be lazy, western or weebshit.
Anime studios don't have time to be lazy. They work very long hours, are often just barely able to meet deadlines, and air episodes with noticeable flaws in them because there wasn't time to get everything up to par.

The production quality of TV anime has increased massively since the 80s and 90s.

Anime is also not weebshit. Weeb means wannabe Japanese. Anime is already Japanese.

>>81233783
weebshit means pandering to weeaboos you fucking idiot

File: ZTA_PAYOFF_MASTER_v16.0r_Composed_Mechv8_5MB-800x400.jpg (103KB, 800x400px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 800x400px

i cannot look at these new CGI movies. thye just dont compare anymore.

>>81225596

No "2D is dead".

Animations with human characters, no furry bullshit is dead. 2D and 3D are saturated with talking animals (always same types: lions, dogs, cats, koalas, iguanas, eagles, fishes, horses, etc )

>>81233829
to what

>>81233828
Weeaboos are not a target audience and there are probably very few people in Japan who even know what a weeaboo is. Shit, there are very few people IN THE WEST who know what a weeaboo is.

Also, pandering has never been proven to exist. It's based on a total misconception of how things work in Japan.

File: 5821343_orig.jpg (264KB, 1100x581px) Image search: [Google]

264KB, 1100x581px

The death of 2D animation wouldn't make me so sad if they didn't release so much concept art showing off what they could actually make - if they could be fucking bothered.

File: 2235783_orig.jpg (335KB, 1100x478px) Image search: [Google]

335KB, 1100x478px

>>81233961

>>81230678

>Seth MacFarlane

How this man is the king of western media?

Make four cartoons with "FG boring face" style that other cartoons copies, Cosmos and Ted producer, and voice actor.

File: 1792669_orig.jpg (219KB, 1100x483px) Image search: [Google]

219KB, 1100x483px

>>81233975
and so on
http://www.matthiaslechner.com/zootopia.html

>>81226678
It's not cheaper, it's just more profitable.

If you look at the top 20 highest grossing animated films, Lion King is the only 2D film on the list.

>>81233868
>iguanas

fuck i wish. when was the last time you even saw a cartoon iguana?

>>81226742
>9 million dollars a year to do fucking whatever he wanted at Disney.
What IS he doing? I'd love to see some good ol' (but new) 2D Disney animation.

>>81233987
It's just because he's a big band enthusiast, calm down

>>81232353
Fuck the nips. Whole county's ran by the mob.

File: S2e24_the_lich_shushing_finn.png (600KB, 1273x714px) Image search: [Google]

600KB, 1273x714px

>>81231517
>>81231490
CGI is very largely aimed at children they dont watch human CGI; animals are perfect in CGI because plots, characters, settings, and scenarios are played to a much more immature crowd.

2D has the advantage they don't view the medium as something for children, and thus can introduce mature themes without censorship.

>>81233994
>It has outlines so it's the best thing ever
gosh you people
this isn't even good concept art

>>81234060
It probably has more to do with how they animated the 2D movies. They more or less kept relying on the same old cartoon animation style that Disney developed in the early 20th century.

>>81234146
2D animation is also treated as children's entertainment in America.

>>81234146
what the fuck am I reading

>>81234090
Being one of the head character design honchos

>>81234146
Animation in general towards kids, but 2D is cheaper so you can make a profit from a niche audience

>All these fucking hipsterfags

File: 3ruOIHU.jpg (595KB, 2085x2265px) Image search: [Google]

595KB, 2085x2265px

At least 3D's gone a long way in terms of detail/rendering

>>81234845
Only if you have a hundred million dollar plus budget and you know what to do with it.

>>81234923

Yeah, Moana/Zootopia will look 10 times better than Sausage Party/Norm of the North

But the others will catch up to Disney 2016 levels eventually.

File: 1451189832300.jpg (59KB, 492x352px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 492x352px

>>81234845

I wana fug that sheep when she's in jail, mmmmmhmmmmmm, lamb chop sandwiches.

>>81234267
It's treated as children's entertainment everywhere, even in Japan.

>>81235218
Most anime is not made for children.

>>81235353
Yes, because they are targeted towards manchildren with lots of money to waste. I think Japan's populace in general believes that animation is mostly geared towards the youth and that only.

File: Klaus-1.jpg (61KB, 960x525px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 960x525px

>>81225596
NOPE! Just look at this trailer for an upcoming 2D, HAND-DRAWN movie called Klaus.
https://vimeo.com/126287950

>>81235562
The average japanese person is more worried about their job than cartoons marketed to children.

At least in the west it's socially acceptable to like 'adult' oriented cartoons even if 90% of them are comedy family sitcoms.

>>81235487
>2D, HAND-DRAWN
too bad it's neither

File: 1451598545359.webm (2MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1280x720px

>>81235631

>>81225596
SWEATSHOP
ROTOSCOPING

>>81225596
No, because outside NA it still thrives.

Let alone we still have TV shows, DTV movies, hell next year we have a 2-D theatrical Adventure Time movie and MLP movie. Plus Nickelodeon/Viacom is planning/making a third SpongeBob SquarePants movie after last year's Sponge Out of Water film did well.

>>81235672
so what, every CGI animated movie has some 2d animation tests during production
doesn't make the result 2d

>>81235798
>tests
That's not a test, it's the rough animation before clean up and coloring. The animation is by hand, no matter how right you think you are

>>81235626
Japanese people have hobbies and pastimes too, and I'm not talking about cartoons (which are hardly even made in Japan).

There are anime shows and movies in Japan that are considered socially acceptable for adults to watch. But then again, a show like Neon Genesis Evangelion was not just popular among otaku but a social phenomena, and the Love Live movie was the 8th highest grossing movie last year.

>>81235997
>and I'm not talking about cartoons (which are hardly even made in Japan).
and here come the semantics
everyone pack up, the thread's over, sensible discussion cannot continue beyond this point

>>81236092
It's not semantics at all. Cartoons and anime are two completely different forms of animation. They have next to nothing in common.

>>81236092
Sensible conversation ended once weebshit was brought up, as it usually does.

>>81235797
>hell next year we have a 2-D theatrical Adventure Time movie
Yeesh, they missed that boat.

>>81236129
>completely different forms of animation
They're drawings that move, the form is the same.

>>81235798
>>81235631
nigga its not
https://vimeo.com/126287950

>>81235797
wasn't there a Regular Show one last year?

>>81236225
It's some hybrid like Paperman was

>>81236129
The hell are you talking about?

>>81236129
The differences are not technical, but cultural, faggot.

>>81236275
No, Paperman was needless overworked CGI with the intention of working backwards to a 2D-esque result

Klaus is just drawings with more levels of shading that's become easier to manipulate with computers. It's all still just drawings (besides that CGI stagecoach and door)

sometimes I really despair how people can't tell these things with their eyes

>>81236150
It is not possible for anime to be weebshit.

>>81236215
>>81236298
>>81236322
Cartoons and anime have completely different, diametrically opposed ideas about what animation is and how it should be done. Cartoon animation is based on stage, theatre and early silent film while anime is based on (modern) cinema. Cartoons are short and simple comedies that revolve around exaggerated physical comedy, singing and dancing, while anime is the same as cinema and television dramas.

File: 1432567233625.gif (393KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

393KB, 640x360px

>>81236426

>>81236426
Anime is just animation from Japan. That's it. That's all the definition is.

By what you're saying, BTAS is anime. Motorcity is anime. That's nonsense.

File: 1445233841972.jpg (4KB, 157x184px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 157x184px

>>81236426
Are you OK, dude?

>>81236523
Cartoon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM1DgihKHVI
Cartoon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNT8T58G3f4
Anime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARTLckN9e7I
Anime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7plEDcWy0Oc

Not being able to tell the difference between these is equivalent to not being able to tell the difference between ambient and death metal.

>>81236524
Anime is form of Japanese animation with its own character designs, animation techniques, visual language, genres, story conventions, character archetypes, fan culture, and industrial practises, and so on. It's extremely different from other animation.

>>81236719
You think I'm mentally ill or something because I explained how cartoons and anime are different? No, I think you're the one who's mentally ill.

>>81236725
Does french or korean animation get a special name and designation?

No. They're all cartoons, and they're all made more or less the exact same way.

Metal is literally for children btw

>>81236725
So are these considered Japanese cartoons and not anime?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlIh-6CJn5g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_aRzCo09bU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KKtS3IMePg

>>81236725
>American: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM1DgihKHVI
>American: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNT8T58G3f4
>Japanese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARTLckN9e7I
>Japanese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7plEDcWy0Oc
You've managed to get it right, but by your thinking, you're likely to often get it wrong.

>>81225596
Does it need to be alive?

>>81236725
what are you even doing here when western animation is nothing but childish crap to you?

>>81236920
Shitposting, wasn't that much obvious from his first post?

>or are you not even aware that anime exists?

>>81236842
Evidently nobody has seen any need to come up with a special name for them. If you think they deserve a special name then feel free to campaign for it. This has nothing to do with anime however.

Anime, as I just explained, is not just animation that happens to be made in Japan. It's a culture and lifestyle unto itself that's tightly integrated with manga, light novels, games, music, audio dramas, commercials, figures and fanworks, and forms a cohesive media ecosystem.

>No. They're all cartoons, and they're all made more or less the exact same way.
Did you actually look at those videos? They're not made the same way at all.

>Metal is literally for children btw
How is this even remotely relevant? I don't even listen to metal and couldn't care less what you think about it.

File: Untitled.png (56KB, 669x667px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 669x667px

>>81234845
>that skin detail
>hair follicles
>texture on the binders / paper

JESUS CHRIST

>>81237026
Aren't there like three different furry threads for you to post in? We're arguing about Japanese cartoons on the wrong board here.

>>81236725
You're a retard. There are plenty of anime that have an Anerican approach to animation, and plenty of cartoons that have a Japanese abimation style.

>>81237015
so you're a fucking retard, I was right all this time!
now fuck off with your shitty bait

>>81237025
>They're not made the same way at all.
DESIGN AND TECHNIQUE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS
STOP BEING OBTUSE

>>81237025
Wait, you mean people of different cultures animate differently?
Stop the presses

>>81237077
American animation is rooted in cartoon animation while anime is rooted in cinematic animation, and they use very different animation techniques and emphasize different things. They are very different forms of animation.

>>81237157
Their design and technique are both different.

>>81237239
They have different trends, but there are so many exceptions to the trends of both that treated them as inherently different is moronic.

>>81229390
And it didn't win any awards. Who gives a fuck about some Chinese shit that no one watched.

>>81237378
God damn you and all your Academy friends.

>>81237378
I get the joke but I'm too sad to laugh

>>81237185
You say that like I'm stating the obvious, but as we can see in this thread it's actually not so obvious.

>>81237316
It's not different trends, it's different fundamental approaches to animation.

There are very few exceptions, and on the American side of things probably all of them are post-anime. And with many shows you just might find that they were actually produced by Japanese studios. On the anime side of things the only example I can think of is Panty & Stocking.

>>81237485
Yeah man, my favorite anime is the 1941 Fleisher Superman series

>>81237485
>post anime
Yet here I am, replying to obvious shitposting anyway. I ashamed of both of us.

File: iu[1].jpg (316KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

316KB, 1024x768px

>>81232684
>modern anime
Pfft, that's nothing. Have you looked at 90s anime?

>>81235672
>shitting out 400 drawings for 17 seconds of animation
Can you imagine?

>>81237555
Huh?

>>81237606
How is it shitposting to say "post-anime"? Like what in the fuck is this. Did you just make that up at random?

>>81237622
>infinitely more detailed characters
>faces still suck ass through a garden hose

Good old Nippon art.

>>81237690
Animating in 1s is the norm for animation in the West for feature films. In Japan, only a few scenes would be done in 1s and it would mostly be done in 2s with a couple in 3s.

>>81237712
There is no central planning committee for character design in anime. Saber Marionette has very idiosyncratic-looking faces and I don't much care for them either, but they don't represent all of anime.

>>81237828
No shit nearly all anime characters are copy paste with shit facial detailing, you didn't need to waste a reply telling us that.

>>81237904
I said the exact opposite. Read my post again.

File: 1448880946725.jpg (52KB, 1280x480px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 1280x480px

>>81237828
>There is no central planning committee for character design in anime.
Thank god you cleared that up.

>>81237982
Why are you acting like I was stating the obvious? It's very commonly thought that all anime characters look the same.

>>81233961
>Hippo Dance Center

Nice.

File: 1390083778645.gif (736KB, 451x322px) Image search: [Google]

736KB, 451x322px

>TFW you like cartoons and anime.
Being a fossil is awful.

>>81238056
>It's very commonly thought that all anime characters look the same.

I must be a Pooh bear, because I'm rumbly in my tumbly from all the buzz words you're using.

>>81238223
I did not use a single buzzword in that sentence.

>>81238120
To be fair though every anime DID look the same in the 60's. Same with manga since everyone pretty much had a slight variation of Osamu Tezuka's style for awhile.

>>81238269
To be fair though it isn't the 60s now so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

File: 100004.png (417KB, 853x480px) Image search: [Google]

417KB, 853x480px

>>81238250
>It's very commonly thought that
No citation or stating of whose opinion this might be, or the range of it and what institutions or figures have propagated this notion. Just a vague assertion that some people agree with your opinion somehow somewhere

>all anime characters look the same.
Pretty much a bait/buzzword since day 1 of /co/
Pretty much everyone here has equal respect for anime and manga since the entire realm of comics and cartoons inspires globally people from all cultures and languages.

>>81238303
It's relevant to ascribing the origins of the idea that Orientalist works are inherently pastiches. Probably has something to do with Japans love of woodblock prints making westerners mock their art in comparison to their Grand Master's paintings.

>>81226678
>3D is apparently much cheaper to do
lol its not as long as companies keep using Koreans at slave wage prices

>>81238269
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttndwyst-Xo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2XhBdHXTqA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quhVELISwH4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amNCTbRJL44 (this is Tezuka's)

>>81238355
>No citation or stating of whose opinion this might be, or the range of it and what institutions or figures have propagated this notion.
We are not on Wikipedia or publishing an academic study. I am talking about my own experience over the years.

>Just a vague assertion that some people agree with your opinion somehow somewhere
Uh...? I am not claiming all anime characters look the same, I am claiming the exact opposite.

>Pretty much a bait/buzzword since day 1 of /co/
Talking about what other people believe is not an endorsement of their beliefs.

>Pretty much everyone here has equal respect for anime and manga
There's no shortage of people on /co/ who hate one or both.

>>81238412
But it's the same for western cartoon characters. Like how they were all black animals with white faces back in the 20s and 30s

Anime has evolved and gone through changes. It doesn't look like Tezuka's works any more.

Meanwhile Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny have had their slight updates but they still wear their 1930s gloves for no goddamn reason.

>>81238559
Also if someone hasn't seen it/has forgotten, here is the very first anime (by Tezuka):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnX-0fbXzyA

>>81226678

3D isn't cheaper to do, but good 2D requires a skill set that is rare, and both difficult and time consuming to learn. 3D costs manpower, but 2D costs expertise.

It's easy to divide 3D into many specialized jobs, even ignoring the programming side. You have people who only work on lighting, or modelling, or texturing, or animating, or even particle effects. That's a lot of staff, but turnaround is quick. For this reason, outside of the independent circuit, we don't yet have a 3D equivalent of Keane or Kahl or Miyazaki or Yuasa. There's only house styles.

>>81238721
3D animation is basically the same as live action filmmaking, except that, at least in the case of American movies, it doesn't have the same set of values, and there's usually more than one director. Pixar and Disney and whatnot aren't thinking of what they're doing the same way live action filmmakers are, so they aren't going to produce auteur works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfam43bhUmc

>>81238903
>3D animation is basically the same as live action filmmaking
If that was the case, than Andrew Stanton's John Carter would have made more money.

>>81238959
I mean it's created in much the same way. Only virtually.

>>81238932
That was gay.