Is Green Arrow the most mishandled character at DC with a book today?

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>>78738949
>i never fucking read Longbow Hunter: the post

>>78738949
I enjoy the current run better than the Lemire one. Lemire fumbled a lot of stuff.

>>78739024
He said today, numbnuts.

>>78739024
That was a long time ago, man. I'm talking about since 2011 with the New 52.

>>78739026
May I ask why?

>>78739121
Twilight Fan I imagine.

>>78739026
I like Percy's take on Ollie a lot more than Lemire's but I think Lemire's story crafting was just better overall

>>78738949
Catwoman(but Valentine)
Teen Titans
Roy Harper

Also thank you for reminding me to grab Lemire Delux HC

>>78739180
That's what I think of it

Lemire's Ollie was bland as fuck, but Percy has serious pacing issues.

Isn't New 52 as a whole just a massive mishandling of DC characters in general?

>>78738949
Flash is probably more mishandled, his book is total dreck

>>78739215
>Roy Harper
You can't possibly think he's worse off now than he was before the reboot

>>78739215
Adding to this anon list

Harley Quinn
Earth-2
Wonder Woman

>>78739276
>Flash is probably more mishandled
He got Manapul at the very least, and for much longer than GA got Lemire

>>78739215
Duly noted with Catwoman but Teen Titans have been garbage for so long now (even before the New 52 I mean, stretching to the fucking 90's) that I feel best to just disqualify them as a result.

>>78739276
he's being written by scott lobdell, and dc has no reason to ever send him to any other book

>>78738949
Haven't read the n52 shit yet, but I really enjoyed Grell's run.

>>78739222
Percy has dialogue issues. It's so full of fluff and shitty metaphors

>>78739276
When was the last time Roy Harper was worth a shit?

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>>78738949
>All the other creative teams for him have been shit.
read some Grell kid

>>78739240
>Isn't New 52 as a whole just a massive mishandling of DC characters in general?

No Green Arrow has been mishandled before Nu52.

Winnick
Kreisberg
Krul
Nocenti

We literally have not had a good writer since maybe Meltzer or even Dixon or Grell.

>>78739331
Only the art was good, the writing was snooze-inducingly boring, and the Rogues were shit.

>>78739332
Johns run on TT was alright.

>>78739380
Percy's problem is that he is a prose writer writing in a visual medium like comics.

>>78739427
Read the thread, kid.

>>78739335
>he's being written by scott lobdell
Better than being written by Eric Wallace

at least now he has two arms, isn't addicted to heroin, and a non-existent daughter instead of a dead daughter

>>78739427
Since the New 52, learn to read, son.

>>78739121
There's a common criticism of saying something is "written for the trade" which I find absolutely bullshit because everyone then complains i the trades aren't neatly collected full story arcs anyway, however, this is a huge problem for Lemire as he always paces his stories in 4-5 issue arcs specifically for one trade and he pretty much wraps them up tightly without a need for follow up.

To go more in depth, I though he struck gold with The Outsiders, having a large supporting cast which you can use sporadically is great, but Lemire fails to flesh out the clans well enough, it's just a leader and some nameless canon fodder, furthermore, the leaders are never fleshed out. The shield guys get sent out to fight Ollie and Shado but they're quickly handled, then their leader shows up and he gets rekt just moments later and never heard from again. The spear guy never gets fleshed out and is used for a cheap "SURPRISE TWIST' death, and he's killed very easily in front of his entire clan and they don't react at all. The arc ends with The Outsiders pretty much getting rekt instead of playing them up more and building them and fleshing the characters and clans more for a big finale down the road in a few years.

Shado pretty much does nothing for the entire run except job

Oliver's backstory gets changed up for a "SURPRISE TWIST" with his dad and since we're talking about cheap, revealing him to be alive all this time only to die a few issues later in the most generic heroic sacrifice scene ever is...incredibly cheap.

Richard Dragon was cool and built up nicely but then his backstory is revealed and he's a whiny bitch mad that he saw his loser dad get his ass handed to him. Oh and he ends up being defeated by "the power of friendship". No, really.

>>78739380
Maybe you just like bad writers? His dialogue is great and so is his narration boxes. I'm surprised at how reserved he is and how much he lets the pictures tell the story without no words at times.
His plotting skills and pacing is iffy, but his words are great.

>>78739490
>Eric Wallace
Man that guy was such shit. Still mad about what he did with Tattooed Man post FC...

>>78739577
Or maybe you just like apologizing for DC's fuckups.

Percy's book is shit.

>>78739650
You sound like you have an agenda.

>>78739618
Don't remind me.

Now I just remember wtf he did to Ryan.

>>78739577
>His dialogue is great

Ummm... no. He just writes empty metaphors that are full of shit, and then throws in buzzwords like "privilege" and "racist" just so he can call his book political

>>78739683
That Mr. Terrific ongoing could've been great...

>>78739667
An agenda for pointing out that the current GA book is shit?

Yes sir I do.

>>78739490
He's a white trash manchild who's a sidekick to an already shitty sidekick

>>78739716
Maybe you've just been brainwashed from too many cape writers that have never read a book in their life and can't recognize good dialogue.

>>78739728
B-b-b-but look how political Percy is! There's a tentacle robot that kills a racist! He's saying that racism is bad!

>>78739716
no sjw should be allowed to write this book.

dc should have learned the lesson after winnick.

>>78739774
Nah, I think the difference is that I'm not retarded, and thus not swayed by a 12 year old's first attempt at philosophy

>>78739790
Really? That's what you got from that? Jesus Christ you're dumb.

>>78739820
>Nah, I think the difference is that I'm not retarded
Your mouth says one thing, but your actions betray you.

>>78739786
>>>>/aco/drawthread

...what?

>>78739854
Your actions include thinking Percy's GA is good

>>78739792
>no sjw should be allowed to write the sjw book
think about this

>>78739823
Guys, did we just find the Tzitzimine of Percy's Green Arrow?

>>78739894
It's okay, better than half your pull I'm sure. The one thing I said is that he's good with words, especially compared to most cape writers.

It's obviously not new but is Jack Kirby's green lantern run any good?

Percys narration boxes feel like its trying really hard to mimic Millers at times, which doesn't suit Oliver at all.
Or rather it would we saw Olivers more rash and impulsive side at time. He tries to portray that part mostly through dialogue but dialogue is pretty rare in his run due to it being mostly narration driven, as he wants to keep a small cast.

>>78739939
Just because he writes words, it doesn't mean they're not complete shit.

>>78740061
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_prose

That's what it is. He mimics Frank Miller without any clue of what those words actually mean

>>78739934
Heh, probably.

I remember there were some people on here who seemed to want this one to be good because they got Kreisberg off the book and seemed to be straying away from turning the comic into Arrow but it was not to be and it's still shit anyway.

I guess Teen Titans and the LOSH, in the 80's they were both giants and rivals to Marvel's Uncanny X-men.

Now look at them, the only Teen Titants people care about are the 2003 cartoon and nobody except Paul Levitz and Jeff Lemire give a shit about the Legion

>>78739444
I thought Flash was fine when Brian was on the book. It was certainly better than the shit show it is now. Post Azz Wonder Woman and Bunn Aquaman are also mishandled.

>>78740484
I remember reading the first issue, and thinking it had potential, with Oliver returning to being a sreet level social activist. Then the second issue came in which Ollie got bored at a meeting and accidentally contracted dozens of fascist tentacle machines that go around maiming minorities, and I realized it was so stupid that it's hilarious.

It's almost like the ASBAR of Green Arrow. Hammy dialogue that takes itself seriously, and great panel art.

>>78740646
Oh yes, now that is a really spot on analogy I think. Really the saving grace of this run has been Patrick Zircher but not even his art is enough to save Ben Percy's terrible writing. You can only do so much to polish a turd.

>>78739240
DC as a whole is just a massive mishandling of all its characters.

It's such a fucking shame that without the Arrow TV show (which I don't even really like at all although I am glad for its success) Green Arrow would be completely irrelevant by now.

>>78738949
The Flash is in such a sad state right now

>>78739240
Aquaman is so good in the new 52. The first two creative teams were amazing.

>>78741277
That show is likely why Mike Grell's Green Arrow has 5 trades out right now, I'll take it

Don't care how bad the Suicide Squad movie is, they're pumping out those trades too

>>78741386
Parker was anything but amazing. Decent filler that went on for too long. Johns had nice ideas, but he left way too early for that run to be called amazing.

The new Green Arrow run has been great. Why do you fags only want to tear things down? Why can't you enjoy a good comic?

>>78741475
Yes, I suppose you have to take the good with the bad when it comes to these things.

If Aquaman's movie finally convinces DC to print his 90's run in trades it'll be all the sweeter.

>>78741386

Yes, I think in general Aquaman has been generous with creative teams in my opinion.

>>78741606
I think I loved it for a number of reasons

>I'm new, so not a great deal to compare it to
>I love quality world building, both authors crammed so many seeds for future stories and characters
>I love the non-drama relationship between Aquaman and Mera
>I love how it changed my opinion on the character

>>78741756
There was no world building in Parker's run. There was in Johns but he left too early until he did enough. PAD's run remains the best because he actually fleshed out the world of Atlantis but it's missing Mera and the art can at times be crappy(at times it's quite great too though)

>>78741910
actually there was. the various worlds that were connected to atlantis including gorilla city and pacifica would all be considered world building as would be establishing the political nature of atlantis and the atlantean and their outright xenophobia.

>>78741910
>There was no world building in Parker's run
I disagree
>The linking of Atlantis sister cities, one being conquered by Gorillas.
>Atlantis being a sentient city
>Ancient Giant protective beasts
>Ancient giants that warred with Gods
>The elitist Atlantis underworld, with citizens who have physically evolved smaller lungs because they stay down so much
>The new city founded by Mera's would be assassins.
>The libraries of Atlantis

I just see that as being plenty of seeds for future arcs. We could have aquaman use the warp tablets to travel new lands. Solovar team ups, Flash team ups vs Grodd, war against the newly created cities.

This isn't without mentioning the hints dropped everywhere about lost Atlantis knowledge (how the warps work, how did the city become sentient). They could have huge arcs discovering that stuff.

1. Lemire.
2. Percy.
3. Nocenti.
4. Kreisberg
5. Krul

We can all agree on this right?

>>78744052
Missing Giffen,jurgens and Perez

>>78744052
>>78744401
I almost feel like the worst thing to happen to Green Arrow was the return of Ollie since they seem to have no idea what to do with him now after Green Arrow: Quiver.

>>78744052
Put like 5 blank spots between Lemire and Percy but yeah

>>78744691
Suprise roy never became Green arrow in main continuity.

>>78744888
No but he was Red Arrow.

>>78744691
I think the worst thing was killing him off and then having no clue for a direction. There is a reason Connor Hawke didn't take off.

>>78744920
That works.

>>78739577
Stop kidding yourself dude

>>78744935
He was cool in JLA under Grant Morrison, but hey that guy can write anyone good. He probably wrote Kyle Rayner best as well.

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Nobody's known what to do with him since the 80's besides making him even more of an "Evil Batman"

>>78745953
Did you post this in the wrong thread? Because I'm not sure how they have been making Ollie into Evil Batman.

>>78746084
No. I'm saying that Deathstroke's been mishandled more and for far longer than Ollie has

>>78746151
Ah, true. I'm fighting to think of a good story Deathstroke was in recently where he was the main character, so like Forever Evil doesn't count for example.

His ongoing is currently one of the worst books DC is publishing today. Even Green Arrow is not as bad as Deathstroke has become.

>>78739240
>>78740926
>5 Years Later and people still aren't over New 52
FFS Anon, it's 5 years, do you seriously believe that all DC books published that time has been shit?

>>78746151
I'm not gonna lie, it amuses me how Deadpool has gotten a second wind after Daniel Way and is now the best he's been in a very long time while Deathstroke continues to reach new lows with narily any end in sight.

>>78747156
That will never cease to be amusing to me either.

>>78746919
Right, it's not like DC characters weren't being mishandled prior to the New 52 either.

>>78747201
My nigga.

I'm glad we're on the same page, Anon.

was anyone around when that anon storytimed the majority of the green arrow series? those were some pretty awesome runs. too bad we will most likely never see eddie barrows again.

>>78746919
>leave turd sitting on carpet
>after five years it becomes chocolate bar

>>78749171
Well, in the sense that five years ago Green Arrow was shit and now nothing has changed that would be correct. Although, that statement does not apply to every DC book across the line.

>>78739755

And it's incredibly entertaining. I can't recall a time when Roy was ever this entertaining.

>>78739024
And? He's still being mishandled, you retard.

>>78744935

Hey man, I loved Connor Hawke when he was the main character. It was hilarious when Dixon got pissy at everybody assuming he was gay and had to write a ghost woman story to set the record straight.

>>78748934
>eddie barrows
Eddie Fyers you mean, Barrows is a penciller

And yeah those storytimes were great

>>78738949
That's not Red Hood or any of Titans.

>>78749737
tzitzimine pls go

>>78750071
Red Hood was a mistake.

>>78751432
This

>>78751432

Nah, just putting Tynion on RHatO was a mistake.

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Why does most of /co/ hate red hood

>>78755429
Because /co/ hates edgy Robins.

>>78755448
Dude was a street kid though, it fits

>>78755448
But we love Damian on /co/.

>>78755429
Because making him a hero was retarded, and pretty much dumbed down any effect the character could have had. Then you get the whole chosen one bullshit with Lobdell

>>78755448
Actually most of /co/ likes Damian since he's Morrisons baby

>>78755429
I like him. Natural end result given Jason's life

>>78755476
Damian was a mistake

>>78755498
Tim was a mistake

>>78755518
Dick was a mistake

>>78755480
>Actually most of /co/ likes Damian since he's Morrisons baby
Yep. I bet if Morrison started writing Quentin Quire, many people would say how awesome is pink-haired moron.

>>78755529
Cass Cain was a miracle.

>>78755539
Harper Row agrees.

>>78755539
Stephanie Brown was a martyr

>>78755534
I really can't stand most of Morrison's stuff, but I still like Damian.

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Would he be more liked if he was introduced in the modern times?

>>78739969
>Jack Kirby
>Green Lantern
...what?

>>78755652
Didn't dude who wrote him in old times hate sidekicks and tried his hardest to write terrible Robin?

>>78755736
What a fag. If you've got a job then do it right

>>78755534
>I bet if Morrison started writing Quentin Quire, many people would say how awesome is pink-haired moron.

Morrison created Quentin Quire and he wrote Quientin as a likable character because he was a nerdy kid pretending to be tryhard edgy kid to impress a girl and fucking everything because he happened to be a mutant and was high on drugs. Then Aaron brought him back and just wrote him as a tryhard kid as his default character point, missing the point entirely like always when it comes to writing Morrison characters.

>>78755429
Because it's popular to do so.

>>78755480
>Because making him a hero was retarded, and pretty much dumbed down any effect the character could have had.

Making him a hero made sense, because otherwise Batman looked like a fucking tool for letting him run free and not putting him in jail. And it's far better use of him, you can use him more in different ways now than you did when he was just mad at Batman. He's fun as hell as a superhero version of the odd couple when he's teaming up with Roy and his interactions with the Bat-family now that they've kissed and made up has been one of the higher points of the Nü52 Bat-books.

>>78738949

I really liked him in Final Crisis, when he basically follows the Justice League around, helping them even though they ask him to leave. Green lantern points a giant green arrow at him and makes fun of him, belittling green arrow's abilities. i like that he is a corporate piggie too

>>78755652
No, with how crowded the Bat field is these days he would be reviled at large and people would be calling for his head, ironically enough.

>>78755696
I think he meant green arrow

>>78755875

People have been bitching about the Bat-family ever since it was more than just Bruce and Dick, though.

>>78755896
So... Bruce, Dick, Alfred, Jim and Barbara as Dick's romantic interest and that's it? Kill everyone else?

>>78755896
Dick butt has hypnotized the masses

>>78755896
Which is exactly what got Jason dead, being compared to Dick. Naturally he would fall short.

It's even worse and a more crowded field than it was in the 80's when they killed him off. Trying to find a niche in this swarm of locusts would be next to impossible, Jason would be vilified as Harper Row has been as being forced into the fandom by stealing the spotlight from more deserving characters.

>>78756453
What if Jason got meta conscience like Deadpool and found out people actually voted for him to get tortured and killed?

>>78755736
Yes. Starlin didn't like Robin in general. Had Dick been Robin and not with the Titans then he probably would've tried to kill him too.

>>78755896
Yeah people want what they had when they first started reading.

Hell, when Steph as Batgirl first happened, people were largely throwing a fit because of how Cass stopped being Batgirl. Now everybody has just forgotten that because those that bitched about it left or got over it, and Steph is considered one of the best Batgirls now. Same with Damian as Robin.

>>78755923
Not anymore, no.
The ideal batfamily seems to be Alfred, Bruce, Dick, Jason, Tim, Cass, Damian, with Barbara and Steph on the side to serve as girlfriends to the Robins. And Jim.
Azreals, Onyx, Harold, Harper and Cullen, Duke, etc don't even enter the scene.

>>78756586
Deathstroke becomes Deadpool becomes Harley Quinn becomes Gwenpool becomes Red Hood?
>>78756859
That's what I mean. Combination of that and not muh Robin sealed the deal.
>>78756923
I'm taking your ideal Batfamily but I'll just add Julia Pennyworth.

>>78740766
Ben Percy is doing okay. His Detective two-parter was great, but as to GA its been a mixed bag.

>Fascist robot stuff: 8/10
>Mexico stuff: 2-4/10
>Werewolf stuff: Too early to judge, but shaping up to be about 7-8/10

There are so many series that are way shitter.

>>78756923
>Hell, when Steph as Batgirl first happened, people were largely throwing a fit because of how Cass stopped being Batgirl.

No, it was more about Steph put into a role that didn't fit her, because people largely liked her as an underdog who barely could jump a ledge, etc. Making her Batgirl took away everything that made her special and replaced it with a generic blond Bat-character. It was also incredibly lazily done because they just pulled a time skip bullshit so she just magically got better fighter because lol training montage, etc. And finally the way the handing down the cowl was done was dumb as fuck, Cass just shoves it to her and fucks off. It was really, really bad.

>>78756923
People hated Damian initially because he was a little shit, and that was kind of the point, he was a spoiled brat. From Batman #666 onwards people warmed up to him because he started to have character and was a lovable dick.

>>78755696
I meant Green Arrow. Can't believe I didn't notice that fuck up until a day later.

>>78757677
>666
>damian
Hmmm

>>78739180
Same here. I loved Lemire's. I am really enjoying Percy's though. He's giving us an Ollie that feels like Ollie, and as of yesterday gave us a beard back, hopefully for good.

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>GA will never interact with the Justice League again

>>78758654
Nor with Black Canary either.

>>78757804
Jack Kirby on Green Lantern would have been hype as shit though.

Lemire was hit or miss most of the time
Now that he's gone DC doesn't know what to do with Ollie though

>>78739240
Well aside from Batman everything has been shit for the most part
So I say its pretty much par for the course with DC

>>78759608
Eh, we gotta take it on a case by case title depending on the title.

>>78756453
>Jason being a shittier, whinier version of Dick

How the hell did we go full circle?

>>78755307
RHatO was really shitty well before Tynion

>>78745953
Current book is pretty good not amazing or anything but on par with what a character like deathstroke deserves

>>78755429
Because he's had one decent story and nothing else.

His best story post-UtRH is when Grant Morrison used him to show how stupid "edgy punisher Batman" was

Which then caused Judd Winick to have a panic attack, and do everything he can to try to make Jason "sexy" again

And then New 52 happened, and he was handed off to DC's worst writer

>>78755429
Why does he still wear a bat symbol?

>>78739428
>Winnick

I thought his run was pretty average. Nothing really offensive but I enjoyed it.

>>78759895
Because he's a jilted lover who won't shut up about his ex

>>78759895
Ask Lobdell.

>>78759781
You mean he deserves bad writing? If so then yeah, I agree with you, Anon.

>>78738949
Teen Titans.

But the new run is good. Stop sucking Lemire's dick so much.

>>78759895
Because he's a bat jr, silly

>>78738949
There are worst cases.

>>78761397
No it's not. Stop sucking Ben Percy's dick so much.

>>78764653
Going by decades yes there have been titles more mishandled than Green Arrow but since 2011 there is no substitute for a more poorly handled character than Green Arrow has been.

>>78765944
The entirety of the Teen Titans would beg to differ.

>>78766037
They had two shitty creative teams compared to how many Ollie's had?

>>78759827
Right, Red Hood much like Mr. Freeze only works for one good story and once its over there is no more use for him.

>>78766173
There are at least 20 good Green Arrow issues.

>>78738949
Current run is good.

>>78759895
To remind readers that he is a batcharacter, as if the book constantly crossing over and Jason appearing in the weeklies wasn't enough.

>>78759746
They want Jason in the batfamily so he'll sell more but don't know what to do with him. Dick is probably the least offensive batcharacter out there nowadays so it just makes sense to just use that.

Pretty much the only unique thing about Jason is shooting people and drinking all the time. Though some writers have been making Dick do the latter for some reason ever since he became a spy.

>>78740926

nice b8

The only thing good that happened to green arrow other than lemiere was his show.

>>78773641
Right, the CW has done more to keep Oliver relevant than the comics have in years.

>>78772159
>>78740926

He shouldn't speak in such absolutes. DC can be faulted for mishandling many characters but that does not apply to everyone across the board.