What the fuck happened to Mike's art?

>>78604739
I don't think he's drawn the strip for a few years now.

>>78604960
wait really? I don't believe uou

>I don't even recognize it as a game
What?

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>>78605105
>In which Gabe and Tycho start realizing they're no longer the face of video game culture, and try to play it off with the Cool Kids ironically.

It gets really apparent when they get into Us Parents territory, especially with their Nightlights stuff.

>>78604960
>I don't think he's drawn the strip for a few years now.

Anon. I know you bring this up every thread as a defense mechanism. I understand that we all don't want his art to have gone to shit. But after he started to draw "wavy" teeth in 2009 the whole thing slowly fell apart. He idolizes people like Kate Beaton who have very fluid approaches to consistency and character drawing. But he doesn't know how to replicate it like he could when he was aping Stephen silver. I assume he feels that this is his maturation into a true individual artist. But it's simply painful to look at and I had to stop reading last year.

He just sucks now. That's it.

>>78604739
>Undertale is the New Game You Have To Like Or You Don’t Get It. These sanctified vessels are selected by an organization that is either lofty or subterranean, I haven’t decided, and one of the cool things about being old is that I don’t care.

>These hyper-earnest teens I got on my block are way into this stuff. I’m glad that someone is teaching them new words. But I can sense a kind of invisible maze go up when they start this conversation - they want to know if I can be trusted. If I’m like the others. They want to know if they can tell me the secret, and they will, provided I already know it. So I lied. I lied and lied and lied.

>There is a popular mode now I have taken to calling Double Reverse Irony, where things are real but not real but no they’re actually real, that is just one step beyond where I’m interested. My policy when the next generation “does them” is informed by 2pac’s I Ain’t Mad At Cha, and I only get mad when people transform works into litmus tests. In the case of Undertale, I can’t abstract it enough to even look at it: I can’t hold it far enough away. The thing it is dismantling is too close to me.

>>78605561
>Parody can be revelatory of weakness in the subject, but it can also reveal strength; it can reveal what’s left after the softest parts are washed away. Even when done in love, it has a caustic quality. An extended look at metals extraction probably isn’t appropriate for this paragraph, but I’m thinking about gold cyanidation and toxicity. The game is gleeful in its cannibalism of the medium, there’s blood all over its face but it’s smiling. It’s intimate with the tropes it has on display, and at this precise moment in time I’m discomfited by what it does with that familiarity.

>It is insufficiently reverent, and does not perform the proper obeisances. Others like it for precisely these reasons. I’m delighted by the iconoclasm intellectually and repulsed by it viscerally; if nothing else, it’s providing an intense psychological workout.

>(CW)TB out.

>>78605561
>>78605580
I've always hated Jerry's writing. So fucking pretentious.

>>78605602
Undertale is pretentious.

>>78605614
Tell me how it's pretentious then.

>>78605621
It's overrated.

>>78605602

I've always loved it. But then I used to be a writing tutor; and I think I'm perceiving what you're calling pretentious as "clever." But I know lots of people hate reading his news posts. So I may be in the minority.

>>78605639
Answer the question.

>>78605639
>overrated
A bullshit term made by people who want to feel special for liking something. I don't give a SHIT about video games, and I still think you're a faggot.

>>78605165
>>78605561
I'm confused, isn't Undertale a retro inspired RPG with a morality system?

>>78605711
>defending tumblrtale
It's shit. LISA did the Eartgbound formula much better.

>>78605741
Can you read, anon? He's clearly not talking about the game in specific. He's talking about the way the other anon pretends to argue a point.

>>78605602
Yep I hate when people write like that when they can just express the same opinion in a simple way without resorting to going around in circles and just making useless comparisons that mean nothing in the end.

All that shit he wrote just to say that he doesn’t get Undertale and the kids hold it as some sort of sacred flawless game and that he humors them when they talk to him about it when in reality he doesn’t care to hear them.

Also the part of getting angry about the kids transforming it into a litmus test, that's peetty much nerd culture as a whole and it has been that way for awhile. You tell a nerd that likes a particular type of game, story, show, or genre that you're not a fan of something popular from their interests or something that is considered sacred and they turn on you.

Like mention how shit you thought Watchmen was to other comic readers and they will get upset.

>>78605956

Think of it like this: Some people want to get to their destination as quickly as possible. Jerry is taking the scenic route.

>>78606140
That's a generous way of saying he's incapable of saying "The curtain is blue" in fewer than 200 words.

>>78606140
Yeah, he's taking the scenic route through his own garish-ass yard. He himself probably likes his own taste in lawn ornaments, but most don't.

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>>78605741

At least spell it right you moron

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>smacktalking undertale
>art has shifted heavily into tumblr style

pottery

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>>78605614
>>78605639
>It's pretentious because it's overrated

>>78605711
>overrated is a bullshit term

>>78605741
>it's shit because a completely different game with a common root came out first

This thread is a fucking disaster jesus christ
I thought I was on /v/ for a second

>>78606747
/co/ has pretty much been /v/ for a couple of years now. Expecting good conversation instead of people just posting one sentence meme-laden arguments just leads to having a bad time.

>>78604739
They realize they were stagnating and needed to change everything completely in order to force evolution.

>>78605602
I like his writing, but only in the same way I like Scott Adams's writing - it's fun to read, but I'd never take it as a serious opinion.

>>78605715
It's not much of a morality system. It's basically that either you save everyone or you kill everyone, and the writing changes depending on which you go for. Or you could kill some of them, but that's basically the same as saving everyone but where you can't play the last chapter.

>>78606747
Welcome to /co/. Everyone has opinions, and if someone has a different opinion to you, they must be idiots. The only actual 'wrong' opinion here is saying you love Undertale but never playing Earthbound 2.

>>78606952
>/co/ has pretty much been /v/ for a couple of years now

No it hasn't. /co/ isn't that far removed from what it has always been. It's the only one of seven or so boards I visit that hasn't become shit. People here love comics and cartoons. There are stupid arguments. But it's pretty rare for everyone to get together and hate something almost universally.

>>78606140
>>78606269
He's a dude who prides himself as being The Smart One of the group, and things get pretty awkward in an environment where he's not the coolest in the room.

...much like how video game culture has expanded exponentially, to the point where Gabe and Tycho are no longer the Coolest in the Room.

>>78607271
Maybe I'm way off, but I also feel /co/ skews to a slightly older crowd compared to /v/ and others.

>>78604739
it would be better if brown hair was saying ''I agree'' at the end instead of black hair

Tycho's been "old" for at least a decade or more

I remember a long time ago when he went on a rant against wikipedia as being silly and something run mainly by pokemainiacs

That was the point where I knew, he had become out of touch with geek culture, and always would be

What happened to his art is he's actually making an effort again. I will grant that the strip itself seems to have "outgrown" punchlines and given way to some strange, meandering, unfunny slice-of-life horseshit in their place, but I really don't understand when people criticize Mike's current art. The art from the "Penny Arcade is actually funny" years was so stiff and boring.

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The one thing I enjoy the most about Undertale is that bopping soundtrack it has.

Sans Theme, Papyrus Theme, and The Spider Dance make great dance music

Mettaton's theme is OK.

I don't understand why Penny Arcade needs to still exist in the first place.

>>78608828
probably because PAX is too big not to have the piddling little comic that was responsible for it die out

>>78608583
The comic's been an afterthought for years, and they seem to want to do more with the Penny Arcade Experience but aren't creative enough. They've tried to get various tabletop game projects up and running, and their "serious" story projects are wafer thin.

>Noir + Robots, your mind has been blown.
>Boy scouts ala D&D Rangers, and Girl Scouts as, like dryads or something.
>The monsters under your kids bed are real, and only Us Parents are awesome enough to see them and take them out.

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I find it funny that Tycho doesn't like UnderTale given his praise for the Stanley Parable.

I also find it funny when 4chan's reflexive dislike of Penny Arcade has to compete with it's contrarian distaste for UnderTale.

>>78608943
Watching someone's knees try to jerk in two different directions at once is always funny.

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>>78605715
Undertale is pretty much an RPG. Each monster turn they "attack" which plays out like a bullet hell minigame. You can choose to attack and kill them (which levels you up and makes you stronger) or find ways to peacefully solve the situation and spare them (which doesnt give you xp and as such makes the game a little bit harder to survive in the end). Its over hyped but still pretty fun in the end. It follows the classic fate of being popular on /v/, then being picked up by everyone else, which in turn leads to shitposting and /v/ bashing it. Also lesbians and shit like that in the game leads to tumblr going crazy with it which turns a bunch of people off. It and Lisa are pretty much worth a try/pirate though.


In the end I never really get these "im old" sort of situations. I have my tastes which may or may not be catered too, and as time goes on I find new things to like or hate. I don't break down and go "THATS NOT EVEN A GAME MAN!". I may roll my eyes and some things that become popular but thats about it.

>>78608943
I can see it, Stanley Parable is much more artsy kind of game; it's walking while a voice just goes on these tangents along with set piece moments he can easily find the deeper meaning in. Undertale is more of a straight forward game with it's underlying message woven into character interaction and gameplay mechanic that you can either reflect on for a deeper meaning or just enjoy it as is

>Doesn't recognize it as a game

Does he recognize it as a tuba? Perhaps a pumpkin?

How can he call Stanley Parable a game, but not Undertale? Is this nigga serious? Both the penny arcade guys have always had shit opinions on almost everything but this takes the cake.

>>78605419
>I know you bring this up every thread as a defense mechanism

It's a running gag, Senpai.

>>78609273

I feel like it mostly touts itself as an RPG, but the fact that you can get through the game without killing anything at all makes me feel like people should focus more on the bullet hell aspect when trying to sell it to people.

Or not. I mean, the fact that you can make that choice kind of defines the R in RPG, better than a lot of video game RPGs do anyway.

The story isn't outstanding, but it is quirky and has some great moments, and I like how it plays with your expectations, both in the combat system and in the story line.

Point is... I don't agree with Tycho, but he is entitled to his old man opinion.

>>78608800
>no Metal Crusher

>>78608943
What's Aidsmoby and Jay bummin doing there?

>>78608943
When you strip away all of the character/story/whatever that people praise about Undertale, you are still left with a fun and challenging game to play. You can't do that with The Stanley Parable, because the story and dialogue is literally the entire experience, unless you somehow have fun pressing the forward button on your keyboard for 30 minutes straight.

>>78605621
It's gimmick has already been done before and in better narratives. The game's claim to fame is it's characters, but if you don't like them you're pretty much fucked as far as enjoyment goes since they're trying to be quirky. People think the dev tried too hard while doing this.

The concept of your own actions while playing the game having a hand in the story have already been done before in games like Hotline Miami or Deus Ex, and arguably better because those games have other themes that connect with the "player-choice" aspect of their own stories. People call Undertale pretentious since the separation of the morality system from the main themes is like night and day. Fox presents interesting ideas but doesn't really work on them as much as he should've.

>>78609645
>Hotline Miami
What?

>>78609645
>Hotline Miami
>Deus Ex

Anon, do you have brain problems?

Undertale in no way has the same story as these two games. Undertale's shtick is all about the meta of what a videogame is and why we play them, those two games have fucking nothing to do with it.

>>78609806
>Undertale's shtick is all about the meta of what a videogame is and why we play them

That's more of Spec Ops: The Line's thing, Undertale is a little different.

>>78609876
No, spec ops is about forcing you to do things and then bitching at you for doing them even though you had no other choice.
And don't give me that bullshit about "turning off the game" being a choice.

Undertale is great for furry porn, tho

>>78609876
no, it's Undertale's as well. At least genocide path is. Genocide is grinding to kill every last monster you can; you get a counter to keep track and encounter rates drop to really make you grind it out to get that ending. You even face much harder bosses in order to complete the genocide ending and the game knows you're doing it just because it's an option and calls you out on it. In Spec Ops there's no option to stop the mission, call base or walk back before going in, you either go forward and play the only path the game gives you or not play. In Undertale, you do it because you want to do it

>>78609876
Sort of. Spec ops does it hamfistedly as fuck. If you don't give players nonlethal conflict resolution, telling them they're bad people is dumb as fuck, you didnt give them a choice. Saying "Oh, just turn off the game!" isnt acceptable, because now you've made your point by making an awful game instead of a good one.

I enjoyed Spec Ops but its about as subtle as a brick to the testicles and the message is lost once you realize you had no other options. Undertale even states that you're not even evil at the end of Genocide, you're just doing it because you can.

>>78605078
Anon is talking bullshit as usual. He still draws the comic.

>>78610000
>the message is lost once you realize you had no other options
I don't really see it that way. It's not about "why did you decide to murder those civilians", it's about "if you think about it, it's a little weird that we play games about war". The point is not that you decided to burn a couple of polygon people to their death states, it's to rub your nose in the fact that war kind of sucks. There's probably a lot of COD kiddies out there who could use a dose of that.

>>78609645
But in Hotline Miami there aren't any choices to make. It's big twist story wise is basically telling you that there's no justification for your actions, you're just doing it because it's fun.

>>78609916
>And don't give me that bullshit about "turning off the game" being a choice.
It is though. The entire point of it was that what games we play and what narratives we go along with matters.

>>78610107
Fuck you, no it isn't.
Get this shit out of here.

>>78610091
Pretty much, I think Spec Ops: The Line's point was to make you think about games like Call of Duty where you do fucked up shit without a second's hesitation. The infamous white phosphorous scene was lifted from those types of games, only The Line subverted it by forcing you to walk through the havoc you caused, whereas other games give you a high five and move on to the next mission. The goal of the game wasn't "why did you make this choice, you're such a bad person" but more like "this is the kind of shit that the kids love to play, isn't that weird when you think about it?"

>undertale
>go out of your way to befriend people who actively tried to kill you to get the good ending
>no you see the fish lady is actually quirky and fun so that makes to fact that shes a child killer a-ok!

its kind of bullshit how the game gives you the option to SPARE people when it was never you the one who started the fight.
and if you dont spare them they keep fighting you so is not like they are at your mercy and you are just letting them go.

in fact it gets worse with toriel, how the fuck are you "sparing" someone who insists on attacking you? how do you do the sparing?

>>78609806
>Undertale's shtick is all about the meta of what a videogame is and why we play them, those two games have fucking nothing to do with it.
Hotline Miami was also about that albeit not like what >>78609645 is saying. Hotline Miami real ending was basically a "fuck you what were you expecting" involving the plot of the game and was mostly about how you shouldn't overthink it and have fun bashing peoples brains cause it's a game.

>>78610280
Are you sure that the thing you call the good ending is also what you would consider the good ending? I mean, it does end with monsters invading the surface. Maybe you should just go ahead, kill Undyne, Asgore and Flowey and walk the fuck away for your best end.

>>78610280
It's almost like their entire society has been trapped in isolation for centuries, and that humans were genuinely a bunch of fucks to them on multiple occasions.

When you're raised in a society that tells you that humans are nothing but pure evil, and that in some cases children have killed monsters (See the dusty ballerina gear), that maybe them wanting to kill a child would be reasonable.

>>78610343
Pay attention to the way most enemies "attack" you. Almost all of them aren't actively fighting you, they are just doing what they normally do or are even being friendly. The dogs just want to play, Aaron is just showing off his muscles, Woshua wants to clean you, etc.

also the morality system becomes too gamey at the end, you are not doing things because they are "right" you are doing them because those are the game mechanincs to get that ending.
nobody who spared flowey at the end did so from the kindness of their hearts, they did it because they knew that was the only way to get the pacifist ending

>>78610343

You clearly never tried attacking anything. Basically everything in the game barring a few exceptions dies in one hit. Everything is literally always at your mercy.

>>78610375
I do like that if you go through all the levels a collect little magic pixels the game's ending essentially goes "fine, you want a story. Here, have a fucking hollow throw away line about political intrigue or whatever, fucking nerd"

>>78610343
SPARE is stated to simply be the action of "refusing to fight".

Also they are very much at your mercy, what with you being a literally immortal abomination that cannot be truly stopped, only slowed. Even sans, who tries to bullshit you to death is no match.

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>First time playing
>Obvious moral system so decide to do pacifist run first
>Goat Mom fights you
>Mercy does shit
>Decide to fight her and have her health low enough to Mercy
>600 damage out of nowhere
>Fuck up pacifist run
.Decide to Mercy everyone else to see if it changes anything
>Not really
>Game tells me to replay the game exactly as how I played it but not fuck up Goat Mom this time
I enjoyed the game quite a lot but fucking hell.

>>78610475
Most of them don't actually know about your quantum immortality, though.

>>78610399
but that is not how real life works, the game is clearly a morality lesson, but the morals are too mechanized and unintuitive.
there is no option to just tell the character "i know you dont mean to but you are hurting me so please stop" the only option to end an encounter is to spare them and that is nonsensical

>>78610395
it still should reward befriending the people who tried to kill you, that is a terrible lesson

>>78610517
shouldnt*

>>78610407
dude flowey is the one character you're allowed to kill in a pacifist run

>>78610507
>Decide to Mercy everyone else
So her death served the intended purpose?

>>78605165
Ha, I actually went to the same highschool they did. My art teacher was the same one they had.

>>78610475
but you cant realistically "refuse to fight" when the other is actively attacking you.
if someone is punching you in the face it does nothing to say "i refuse to fight"

>>78610407
Which kills would have been the right thing to do?

>>78610579
oh, i didnt know that

>>78608943
I unironically enjoy that particular strip and think it's funny

>>78610517
Undertale is not a morality lesson. Both Flowey and Sans tell you that you're not doing what you're doing because of good or evil. Flowey knows that you'll make everyone happy for the sake of a perfect ending, and sans knows you're just genociding to see how far the rabbit hole goes.

Even on neutral, when he judges you, he will only truly be pissed off at you if you kill Papyrus. He'll even ask you if you think people with special abilities have the obligation to do what's "right". If you say no, he'll accept that as your opinion.

>>78610644
if i am to take the question seriously: undyne, mettaton, flowey and muffet. as for the various random encounters i cant remember right now.
but that is not my point, my point is that the game is too abstract and doesnt properly reflect the realities of diplomacy, it ends up conveying a fucked up lesson about always turning the other cheek

I find it strange how people on chanboards keep on applying AAA game standards to indy games.

A shitload of Undertale criticism seems like nitpicky shit.
Sure, Undertale is overrated as fuck and has a fanbase that is as spergy as fanbases get, but it's still a crazy feat for a single person making his first game ever.

>>78610613
That's what i thought to myself too. "Killing your mom accidental then vowing to never kill myself" makes for a great plot that I unintentionally made myself. The problem is the game later expecting me to replay and recreate nearly exactly as how I played before.

>>78610625
I always laugh at ridiculous neckbeards who think that they're superman or something and can just shrug off punches from a grown man. You don't "walk away" from a fight. You either run or fight back or get beat the fuck down.

>>78610726
>"Killing your mom accidental then vowing to never kill myself"
Jesus hell did my mind go blank for second there? Whatever you know what I meant and the point still stands.

>>78604960
>>78605078
He admitted to having assistants at PAX South last year. Though I didn't think it was a big secret.

He at least admitted he never really thought of himself as an artist.

>>78610709
>undyne
What the fuck dude

>>78605580
>>78605561
Jerry you're allowed to dislike a game on it's own merits but rabid fanbases are hardly new.

>>78607200
>Earthbound 2
So... Mother 3?

>>78610726
>Expecting

You already beat the game with the neutral route ending. Nobody is expecting shit, you're doing it because you wanted the "happy ending".

>>78605602
We should just ditch him.

>>78610770
i mean not going back to give her the water

>>78605580
>>78605561
Wait did he literally justspend like, a full page saying he dislikes undertale because it disects JRPGs and makes references to classic ones?

>>78607200
>The only actual 'wrong' opinion here is saying you love Undertale but never playing Earthbound 2.

Not that guy, but I'm pretty sure that saying that something is pretentious because it is overrated is also undeniably wrong.

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i dont get why people dont like undertale

i played it with the mindset "lets see the new homestuck, the new piece of crap tumblr is raging about these days"

but its actually pretty fun. Snarky writing, humor and characters reminiscent of classics like Paper Mario (my fave game) and Mario&Luigi. Art style similar to j-indie games like Yume Nikki. The gameplay (morality choices and bullet hell turns) is fresh for an rpg.

the only thing i can see someone hating is that undertale makes lots of meta commentary on anime, otaku, and fujoshi, which could be annoying at times.

the point where i disliked undertale the most was before I gave it a chance. so i assume nobody who detests it has given it a chance

>>78610625
Except frisk is inhumanly durable and genuinely can outlast people. Also, sparing doesnt work on Undyne, a soldier attempting to kill you. You have to run, so that point is very much brought up especially with Asgore.

>>78610868
There are going to be people who will be severely bothered by all of these:
>Snarky writing, humor
FUCKING WHEDON
>Art style similar to j-indie games like Yume Nikki
FUCKING GAME MAKER
>meta commentary on anime, otaku, and fujoshi
FUCKING MEME GAME
>undyne, alphys
FUCKING TUMBLR

>>78610869
>frisk is inhumanly durable
more like humanly durable amirite

>>78605561
>>78605580

Literally what the fuck is he even saying here?

Is this just a long form version of "Yeah it was fun but I don't like how obnoxiously popular it is"?

>>78610816
If you don't give her the water, then she never learns to get over her hatred for humans.
She never learns that not all humans are bad. Even if she doesn't die, denying her that lesson is objectively an evil thing to do.
And then you get a neutral ending because you reap what you sow.

>>78609278
I'd say undertale is the better game of the two honestly. It feels more like, well, a game.

>>78610968
Nah, there's also something about it playing around with things he doesn't want played around with. Fuck if I know what those are though.

>>78610945
And that's fine, honestly. I'm not too hot about the anime either.

>>78609645
I've seen posts that are this wrong and this long before but they always surprise me.

>>78610968
It's like he's trying deliberately to be as obscufating and vague enough about his criticism that it's impossible to respond to it.

>>78609916
>t forcing you to do things and then bitching at you for doing them
Pretty much Undertale

>>78611146
I wouldnt put it past him. Honestly the whole thing just screams "I dont have any actual criticism, here's a wall of text that boils down to I just arbitrarily dont like it"

>>78611146
He's always been like that, but as he becomes older and more of a crank, it seems less like a charming quirk and more like a sad defense mechanism

>>78611167
Literally what? Are you just pretending to be retarded?

>>78611167
But that's completely wrong
Undertale never forces you to do anything

>>78610107
I think it's a good idea for a mindfuck. Player characters' actions don't really make sense within the game universe. They just do things random people tell them, never decide on their own, almost never turn them down no matter who they are.

For a real person this behaviour doesn't make any sense. But real people are not stuck in the same place in the same state of affairs forever until they comply.

>>78608943

BBBAAAAAAALLLLLLLDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>>78610719
>but it's still a crazy feat for a single person making his first game ever.
But it wasn't made by a single person, the art was done by a different person (the person who self inserted as hOI I'M MEMEY)

Somehow, despite having a dedicated artist, it still has some of the fucking ugliest sprite art in years

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>Thread about Penny Arcade's art
>Now entirely about Undertale

>>78610507
You're supposed to load your old save when you kill her because you feel bad. That way Flowey can show up and call you out on your bullshit, foreshadowing the whole SAVE mechanic as being an important plot element.

>>78611314
What else is there to say about the art

It's shit. We've moved on.

>>78610726
>Killing your mom accidental then vowing to never kill myself

Are you ok Anon? Any dark thought lately?

>>78610968
>>78611146
>>78611199
>>78611210
>"What is he saying here?"
>Double Reverse Irony
>I’m delighted by the iconoclasm intellectually and repulsed by it viscerally; if nothing else, it’s providing an intense psychological workout.
Am I the only one with basic reading comprehension skills? Are you triggered by the fact that he wrote WHOLE PARAGRAPHS instead of quips? I know we all love quippy bullshit around here...

The game is at once ashamed of what it is, and proud of what it is. It treats you like an asshole for having the expectations it NEEDS you to have. It's "Double Reverse Irony." He sees its popularity with "the kids" as emblematic of a greater cultural trend towards deconstruction and celebration existing at once in a work of art, like a party that calls the cops on itself.

>"Too many words."
So, are we advocating for Newspeak? Just, remove all those icky, polysyllabic words and boil everything down to grunts and body language?

>>78611314
It doesn't matter what the topic was beforehand, as soon as Undertale is mentioned its followers will flock in to shit up the thread.

I find it funny that Penny Arcade just willfully throws itself into some bad stereotype. There are tons of people their age or older, kids or not, who have played the game and 'got' it. Dude is stuck so far up his own pasty ass he can't even play a game and just let it be a game anymore. That's seriously out of touch.

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I normally wouldn't defend Undertale, but I despise the double standards that people often have on it.

Pic related.

>>78611345
>It treats you like an asshole for having the expectations it NEEDS you to have

It does this how exactly?

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>>78611459
every point on this list applies to me

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>internet has devolved into everyone tripping over themselves to prove as loudly and sincerely as possible that they hate that thing you like, because you like it

>>78611495

Why would you reply to the post like that? If you don't hold any of those double standards, then the image isn't meant for you. I even say that at the bottom.

I won't try to imply that 4chan is one person, but I would like to know why certain people hold such contradictory standards.

>>78611506
It's life in general. I dunno why you think this is a new thing.

>Undertale is a deconstruction of RPGs, but it's too mean-spirited. It persistently mocks RPG tropes and punishes the player for following them, but doesn't show proper respect and homages to the games it deconstructs. On an intellectual level, this pleases me, but viscerally, I am upset by the mean-spiritedness of it. Ultimately, it's the children who are wrong.
Am I any good at deciphering pretentious-speak? I can see myself agreeing with his point. Undertale's writing can get a little obnoxious with how ":^)" it constantly is.

>>78610719
>people keep on applying AAA standards to Undertale
This so much. Especially considering how the chan actually liked stuff like Space Funeral or LISA.

>>78611296
Temmie only made a handful of static art like the Snowdin shopkeeper and the intro sequence, and it shows. Most of the actual in-game art was made by Toby himself.

>>78611323
>Not owning up to your mistakes
I might be shit at vidya but I'm not a bitch either.

>>78611633
>Especially considering how the chan actually liked stuff like Space Funeral or LISA.

Wrong. Those are considered passe hipster garbage now.

>>78611506

>Devolved.

Senpai, it's always fucking been like that.

Always.

ESPECIALLY here. The rest of the internet is just catching on to hating on popular stuff because it's ironically enough becoming popular to do it.

It's alot of fun seeing people be buttblasted about people not liking something they genuinely like.

>>78611661
And people who love popular stuff hate unpopular stuff for being unpopular.

>>78611633
>deconstruction
100,000% into the trash it goes. The only good deconstruction to ever exist was Watchmen and every single other one that has ever come into being has been garbage, without exception.

>>78611459
>Sakurai
>Overrated meme dev
Nah fuck off
Even if I don't agree with his design philosophies, the talent and attention to detail he pours into each game is awe inspiring.

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>>78605561
>>78605580
"I hate how people treat some games like a subculture. Undertale is too deep into parody to be enjoyed by itself. I appreciate it for what it is but I can't possibly like it. Also by being needlessly verbose I make my opinions sound much more valid and mature. It's so cool being so grown up that I don't care about anything the little kids do. Those dumb kids. I write a webcomic about gaming where the central joke is now that I'm too old and jaded to enjoy gaming."

Undertale was a mistake. All the fun I had playing it isn't worth retards like him and others dissecting it.

>>78611738

>the talent and attention to detail he pours into each game is awe inspiring.
Which doesn't matter if he makes fourth wall jokes and "meta" humor. That's why people discard any effort or work put into Undertale, am I right?

Again, you can't hold a double standard and expect me not to point it out.

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>>78611357
>faggots from /v/ stirring up trouble will flock in to shit up the thread.
ftfy

>>78611765
>Implying I ever said that

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>>78611459

>Implying you can't jerk off to Undyne

http://imgur.com/ZEIXKKd

>>78611633
If that's really what he meant you explained it much better. Thanks senpai.

>>78611713
>Watchmen
>deconstruction

>>78611345
Yeah I know, but he doesn't make much sense because he doesn't give any examples of which aspects he really means.

>>78605105
It's especially confusing since it's roughly based on Earthbound's style of gameplay. Tons of 16-bit RPGs that weren't made by Square were essentially the same thing. So hard to understand for a longtime gamer, somehow.

>>78607200
Why would I have to play Mother 3 in order to love Undertale? Am I mising something?

>>78605659
It's more of him trying to be clever and failing at it especially since he makes unecessary comparisons and uses wordswordswords to express a simple opinion while trying to be flashy and showy


It's pretty much what these anons are saying
>>78605956
>>78606269
>>78606303
He feels like he's the smart guy and therefore tries to sound smart in his writing but doesn’t get to the point fast and he doesn’t particularly do it in a clever way eitheir.

So yeah I agree with the anon that said it sounded pretentious.

>give in and start undertale
>now threads on /co/ about it and I have to watch for spoilers

Fun game, great writing

Really nice to see Tycho accept being old.

>>78611459
>>78611578
You ever feel like it's unfair to assume that everyone who disliked Undertale must also like jerking off to Bayonetta?

I can't remember when I grew out of this rhetorical habit but I feel like it was some time in early adulthood. If you're trolling fine, but if you really think you're making a good argument then I want you to know you aren't and you're annoying.

>>78604739
>What the fuck happened to Mike's art?
They look furry at this point.

>>78610975
>denying her that lesson is objectively an evil thing to do.
Why the fuck is that our job, though? They're the fucking ones with the problem and were actively taking it out on us. Why the fuck are we obligated to teach them not to be a cunt?

>>78605105
>>78612521
The only games they're exposed to are AAA games that they're being paid to shill, so a quirky indie title suddenly becoming wildly popular makes no sense to them.

>>78612682
I don't think that part is a morality lesson. That was part of the time travel thing, where if you don't give the water, Undyne isn't feeling well enough to write a love letter and you won't convince Alphys not to kill herself. Several sections of the game are like that, where you have to do minor but obvious things, and if you skip them you don't get the game's "good" ending.

>>78612649

>You ever feel like it's unfair to assume that everyone who disliked Undertale must also like jerking off to Bayonetta?

When I have proof that it's the exact same people, then no, I don't think it's unfair.

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The game itself can be a love it or hate it thing.
People have tastes all over the board.
The medium which things are enjoyed can vary a lot.
What makes something good and what makes something bad is mostly opinion.
Even massively shared opinions can be wrong.
Speak one way or the other and you spread it either positively or negatively.
Either way you spread it.
Find things you like and stick to that.
Wall up your world.

>>78612817
But you don't. Maybe you know like one or two guys and otherwise you're riding high on what we call a "confirmation bias".

I know people thirty years my senior who never stop doing stuff like that, so if you're young enough to learn, stop. Stop it now. Learn to argue logic rather than about peoples' moral character. You'll do yourself a favor when you realize you change minds by fundamentally agreeing with someone's point of view and showing them why your way is more helpful to them, not by bashing them and accusing them of disliking a game because "they just want to jack off."

>>78609415

I finally bought it when I saw someone compared it to Warioware

>>78612875

>But you don't. Maybe you know like one or two guys and otherwise you're riding high on what we call a "confirmation bias".
That's why I always take things on a case-by-case basis. I ask anyone I'm talking to if they hold those standards, thus the disclaimer at the bottom.

The people who don't hold those standards can look at the image and say "I'm not a hypocrite, so this image doesn't apply to me. Hooray."

It's the people who try and think up some argument based on flawed semantics to justify the double standard, like "oh, but Renamon and Isabelle are teh hotness! Toriel is old and stupid!" or some strawman like that. That's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of.

I guess the point I'm making is this: you can hate Undertale, but it has to be for the right reasons, ones which you won't immediately forget should another game have the same problems.

>>78612941
I've never really understood the comparison to Earthbound. Their gameplay isn't even remotely similar. Their style and themes are, but not their actual gameplay.

Warioware is a great example though, and one I've never really thought of. All the bosses have their own unique gameplay section that is a lot like Warioware.

>>78613046
Especially that one boss. He'd fit in well in a Warioware minigame.

>>78612963
No, listen. The disclaimer does nothing. All you've done is put together an image macro meant to insult people who dislike Undertale.

I actually like the game, but I think you're being a cunt. The game isn't perfect. It's short, Toriel getting killed was frustrating to a lot of people, some people didn't think the puns were that cute, some people didn't want to be friends with Undyne, some people found Alphys obnoxious, some people are disappointed we're never going to get gratification with this Gaster thing.

Nobody is going to see your image macro and have some kind of epiphany and say, "Oh no, he's right. Deep down I know he's right!"

They're going to say, "Wow, what an asshole," and maybe you'll get an angry response unless that person also assumes you're trolling for laughs. Nothing you're doing is tailored to do anything other than annoy people and drive them away from consensus with your opinion or the notion that Undertale's fandom is terrible if they already think it's terrible.

>>78613247

>All you've done is put together an image macro meant to insult people who dislike Undertale.
I don't see any insults, nor do I see anything that says you're not allowed to dislike Undertale.

>(list of complaints)
See, I have no problem with you listing things you didn't like. That's perfectly fine. Never once do I imply that the game is perfect, or immune to criticism.

>Nobody is going to see your image macro and have some kind of epiphany and say, "Oh no, he's right. Deep down I know he's right!"
Nobody should need that epiphany. We should all know that holding double standards is one step below shitposting, and it doesn't have a place in 4chan if you ask me. You could hate Undertale like it was the devil itself, and I wouldn't bat an eye.

>hurrr yu're an undertale fan
Please stop assuming this. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but you're trying to paint me as an opponent that you can knock down. Unfortunately, I won't have any of it. I consider Undertale average and I don't think it's amazing or GOTY material or anything of the sort. So please, stop grouping me into a bunch of people that you already dislike. I just want to have a meaningful, shitpost-free conversation regarding standards.

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>>78613445
Yeah, okay. Shouldn't have opened with a shitpost, then.

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>>78613551

Carl, just because you don't like something doesn't make it a shitpost. Otherwise 90% of the site would be banned on the spot.

>>78604739
Feminism.

Once you start doing the tumbler red nose...it goes down hill from there.

>>78613595
Well have your fucking "conversation". I don't care man. The site's here. You post it, we'll see it.

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>>78613634

It's pretty simple.

>you hate undertale because (reasons)? That's cool.
>you hate Undertale because (reasons) but you never hate any other game if they're guilty of (same reasons)? Your opinion is faulty and holds no weight.

It's a simple concept.

>>78610975
is ridiculous to expect a child to have that level of compassion for a murderer that is chasing him down, if someone is chasing you triying to kill you you dont look back when he trips to the ground, you keep fucking running

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>>78613678
Wrong. If I did hate Undertale, I just hate it. Maybe if you ask a logical reason from me I might tell you something. That thing I tell you might be wrong. Or maybe it's true and I just don't like the way Undertale did that thing. Maybe I disliked something else about Undertale and it made feel inclined to be hard on anything else.

Bottom line. If I hate something, I hate that thing. Fuck you for making it about my penis. My penis never did anything to you and it never will.

I really enjoyed Undertale and participated in the generals for ages, but I can very clearly see that it's overrated. It's fun, but it's really not very deep and doesn't actually have a message.

>>78605105
Yeah. I can understand not liking Undertale's gameplay or saying it has shit writing, but not recognising it as a game is some kind of retarded hyperbole.

>>78610709

>it ends up conveying a fucked up lesson about always turning the other cheek

You're over-analyzing the game. There is no "always be a nice and never hurt anyone no matter what ever" message.

>>78604739
At no point are these third trimester muppet abortions making a face that resembles something a human would make.

>>78613957

Last post didn't come out right. Let me put it this way:

I don't see why you'd consider the image to be "shitposting". All it does is call out blatant double standards, nothing more. There's no personal attacks, there's no elitism, there's no insults, racism, swearing, or anything of the sort. It's a simple logical conclusion based around trends I've seen on /v/ and /co/. You say that if you hated some things that Undertale did, that's fine. Regarding that, all I ask is for some honesty, a little clarity, and fairness in your observation. If you hate Undertale for having furries for example, then you can't like anything that has furries if you operate by the same logic. Why would you?

I'm trying to stop people from arguing flawed and biased semantics. I'm not trying to dictate what people can and cannot like, as long as they're reasonable about it.

>Fuck you for making it about my penis. My penis never did anything to you and it never will.
People's penises often demand that shows throw out character development for sexy fanservice. Video games have to have gameplay removed and/or massive segments dedicated to looking at naked women and tits and asses. And you know what, it doesn't belong in the medium. If I'm playing a hack and slash, I do not want to see cutscenes every 5 minutes, and I don't even want to be hassled to skip them. They shouldn't be there in the first place.

I'll use a more /co/ related example to emphasize my point: I hate cartoons that try to push emotional junk to such a degree that it takes over the show. That's why you won't see me defending Steven Universe as a great show. At best it's also average like Undertale. I just want something that exercises moderation in its execution.

>>78605580
So basically he's mad that Undertale makes a point about RPG games that isn't gratuitously fellating them?

>>78614010
>overrated

not a valid criticism at all on any level. anyone that uses this phrase is a twat

>>78605561
>>78605580

Why does he fucking write like this?

>>78614252

Or I think that it doesn't add anything or say anything meaningful in it's deconstruction?

>>78614305
People praise it for things it doesn't do. If that doesn't count as overrated then I don't know what does.

>>78614305
Its a criticism of the fans, not the game itself.

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>>78614322
Because he looks like a giant baby and the only way he can feel cool is if he masturbates with the English language.

>>78614436
>people's praise effects your view of the game as itself
disgusting

>>78614397
No he just says it's "insufficiently reverent", meaning it doesn't suck the genre's dick enough for his liking.

Also Undertale is barely even a "deconstruction". It just makes a point about base video gamer "number going up 400 million hour long" RPGs that mean nothing but have a lot of stuff to "do"

>>78608036

/co/ us pretty much the same as it always was. You have half a board that is pretty much 4channers and half that are holier than thou douche bags. Despite the two we ate probably the most morally sound bored when it comes to either side.

>>78614436
I think overstated is more the word you're looking for.

And it is, because fans of just about every game are really, really bad at stating why they like the game.

I enjoyed Undertale because it had fun, quirky (I fucking hate that word, but that's what they were) characters surrounded by a meta-narrative that let you both be in control of your actions entirely while also throwing in fun things like the characters knowing you've reloaded the game or being aware of your meta abilities.

Not particularly deep, but rather amusing. The "deepest" point to the game was that just because you have the option to do something doesn't mean you HAVE to do something, which is honestly more of a meta statement on people who play a game over and over to do literally everything there is to do in every way there is to do it.

>>78611242
>Player characters' actions don't really make sense within the game universe. They just do things random people tell them, never decide on their own, almost never turn them down no matter who they are.

>For a real person this behaviour doesn't make any sense. But real people are not stuck in the same place in the same state of affairs forever until they comply.

bioshock 1

>>78614508
Why he is so bald?

The only thing that really bothered me about his art was the forehead tumor he gave Tycho about a year ago. It actually made me stop checking the comic because it bothered me so much.

>>78614637
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8uEVEJUQSQ

>>78604739
It happened. He's old.

>>78614617
>just because you have the option to do something doesn't mean you HAVE to do something
Honestly this would have been a lot more significant if the game was longer. As it is, you don't actually get your money's worth unless you do all the endings. It's really easy for the game to go
>hurr you're only doing these bad things for your own messed up sense if completionism!!
but there are essentially only one decision and two endings to the game so it's not really that good a message.

It also really dropped the ball on the saving stuff. They could have done so many cool things with that, but instead it's just a tiny handful of lines.

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>>78614703
Holy fucking shit my sides

>>78614836

Back in my day you fixed that kind of stuff in the sequels but today they don't really do that.

>>78614836
Well it worked for me personally, because I enjoyed the characters so much I really did not want to to the genocide run, so I didn't. I didn't have to do it so I didn't do it.

It also helps that the majority of the genocide run is crushingly grindy so I knew I didn't want to do it for those reasons as well.

>>78614836

>but instead it's just a tiny handful of lines.

It's a huge plot point and a big part of Sans' and flowey's characters. It's not just a tiny handful of lines.

>>78614836
I don't get your angle. The game succinctly makes its message clear by having a bad playthrough that actually sheds a lot more light on the game's "story" but trades the player's soul. If it added random shit just so that its longer and more varied if you're a "completionist" it would dilute it this.

>>78610107
>>78610130
it is, in some sandbox games. like a fallout, or skyrim. you can just choose not to do any specific quests, if you know the outcome won't be something you like. there is some real player choice.

But mostly, yeah, player choice in a game is an illusion. the dev creates the world and programs preconceived directions, and outcomes.

I was actually joking with this, to Curt before Amalur game out.
he told us the plot, and this was before the demo? or right about that time.

>Amalur is also home to a species of supernaturally-gifted people called "Fateweavers." Fateweavers can look into an individual's future and tell what they see, often with special attention paid to the individual's eventual death. For a number of years before the game's outset, the fate of everyone in the Faelands has been, "Slain by the Tuatha Deohn," suggesting that the Winter Fae will win their war of conquest.
The player character is "fateless", in charge of their own fate, and can alter the world!?!
I found this hilarious, and was expecting this to be some meta commentary on gaming. As exactly said, there is no such thing as player choice in gaming, and players are exactly like the npcs chained to fate, as laid out by the devs. they can't really rewrite their player paths at all.

sadly, no. the writers apparently never noticed this glaring irony of their own story.

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>You damn whippersnappers! Why, back in my day...

>>78615221
Video Games cant have developers coding on the fly depending on what the player wants to do. So of course every outcome is going to be laid out by the devs before hand.

But that doesn't negate the player choosing from the options presented. Even if a choice only gives me two options I still get a choice as a player.

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Toby should just stick to music. Pacifist was sappy shit, and Genocide was cool until spoopy uboa face and the latest teasing in his twitter is kind of cringy.
Neutral End is best. but lazy since you just get different phonecalls instead of special cutscenes or something.

>>78604739
Rosacea

Also he got old, as the comic states.

>>78604739
TUMBLR
U
M
B
L
R

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>>78614798
But becoming Old also gives him special powers and insight. And by taking the Parent prestige class, he gains the power to summon bears.

>>78611459
>Strong female characters are SJW pandering
Literally what?

>>78614508
jesus i heard bald guy was bald but i didn't realize he was THAT bald. where are his eyelashes even. he looks like a baby somebody waxed. fuckin level beyond bald. bald 2

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>>78617365
>uboa face
Even though people enjoy hating Toby Fox because the Undertale fanbase is out of fucking control, he does have pretty good taste in games. He said in an e-mail exchange interview that he likes Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective.
>>78604739
This new art looks rather ugly, especially the last panel. The first one doesn't look all that bad, but it kinda progresses in "eh", until the last panel looks unappealing. At least, that's what I think of it. It must be the noses and ears.
At least it's not like Tim Fuckley's literally copy pasted comics, but that's not a very high standard to set.

>>78617664
You are underestimating /v/. I've seen them dismiss games as "SJW pandering" solely for having a female protagonist and for no other reason.

>>78617990
I just want games with QT girls, my interest is purely sexist, I assure you... ;_;

>>78611459
Actually, the underlying principle of /v/ logic is that “things I’d shit on Western developers for are okay if Japanese developers do it".

>>78617624
You know they make an awful lot of stories about monsters wanting to take or kill children. To the point where you know what the fuck all of stories will be like.

>>78611467
the game is "groundbreaking" because your expectations of how to gain EXP by killing things are wrong in the game universe

you can't get the true ending if you kill even a single enemy and you are berated the whole game for killing even one thing

>>78617365
>neutral end is best
i agree, that fucking asgore fight was cool as shit

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>>78621724
>True ending

>>78621724
Feels like more of a challenge sparing every enemy in my opinion

>>78622924
its actually easier

>>78622477
It has the credits it's the true ending

>>78605165
He's a bit of a drama queen isn't he?

>>78605956
I really do hate how Watchmen is regarded as holy writ. I found it deeply flawed myself, but discussing it is impossible.

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Honestly, I liked undertale when it first came out, but then it got so big, and people I hate started jerking off over it on facebook, so now I refuse to finish it out of spite.

>>78623354
Tips fedora

>>78610579
Wait seriously? That makes it a bit better, but ...I doubt many people did that. You would be expecting it to punish you for killing him at that point.

>>78623012
The true ending should fade to black though.

>>78623399
Even if you kill the plant
He comes back

>>78608943
Stanley Parable was alright, I was completely disappointed with the "sequel" to it. Because while I enjoyed the voice work, the ability to choice was pretty fucking shit.

>>78623388
Wow, what a hot new meme! Do you mind if I save this?

>>78609627
>Aidsmoby and Jay

I can see that.

I see it as more a fusion of Aidsmoby & Rich with a fusion of Mike & Jay.

>>78611459
>comic sans
>wrong about what /v/ likes
>in a format that isn't explained thoroughly enough to start an actual discussion
oh I get it, bait

>>78613046
>I've never really understood the comparison to Earthbound.
> Their style and themes are, but not their actual gameplay.
and that is why people compare it to Earthbound, not for it's gameplay, but because of the look and some of the humor.

To bring the discussion of Undertale around to something that may be a bit more familiar to /co/, I have the same problems with it that I have with Gigidigi's Cucumber Quest.

The "earthboundesque" humor feels a lot less genuine than Earthbound. It's not "quirky," it's snarky. It a crutch instead of a writing tool. Toby clearly isn't confident enough in his own writing to try writing a serious story, so everything is offbeat and wacky instead. And even then, it's really one-note to a fault. Alphys likes anime. Papyrus is boisterous and likes puzzles/spaghetti. Undyne is overly loud and aggressive.

It really feels like "deconstructing the tropes" is what savvy Internet age writers do when they can't think of their own stories to write. Undertale is a meta-commentary on RPGs and Saving and resetting or whatever, but nothing about it stands very well on its own.

It feels really immature for a writer to take on meta commentary and deconstruction when the results of his serious attempts at writing amount to "the power of friendship saves the day" in the good ending and "the evil smiling child makes a spooky face and jumps at the screen" in the bad ending

>>78623406
>The true ending should fade to black
>gun shot
ftfy

>>78624240
is that what bald was trying to say? why the fuck didnt he just say that instead of sounding like a pretentious asshole.

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>>78607271
>Meme-laden
>Having a bad time

I found Undertale is a cute game with some decent jokes, and a good enough story to keep most interested. The game wasn't really my cup of tea, but its alright way to spend some time on.

IF comparing it to other indie games I would say its above average. Pretty solid for something done with such a small team (most of the work being done by one guy).

That being said the "fandom" that sprung up around it is annoying as hell. Sure it can be said all fandom are like this, but they seem especially loud about it. This can probably be contributed to it being somewhat recent, I'm sure it will die down eventually.

Its a shame that most the people on this god forsaken site can't seem to separate the obnoxious fans from the piece of media. Well that and people like to be contrarian about things now in days as it seems to be the "cool thing" to do.

So basically: ok game, way bigger fanbase that it actually needs.

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>>78625049
Maybe this is time I've spent on /v/ in years past but it kinda irks me when I play a game and I can already tell my tumblr dash is gonna get fucking flooded with fan art and writing about the aspect of the game that best matches the social justice talking points of the moment.

Not that I have anything against sjw politics specifically being a non-hetero liberal myself, but it's like watching someone slow-pitch a protag with unclear gender and lesbian fish softball and knowing that the pitch is so easily digestible because of certain aspects hit that the other merits of the ballgame are going to be completely discounted by the screams of the fans just because of that single slow-pitch ball got knocked out of the park.

It feels like every time there's a new lgbt character it's gonna get a free pass and get paraded around harder than /co/'s waifu of the week. Then the fanfare dies down leaving the fandom like a looted pyramid: A monument to something great from ages where nothing of worth remains inside.

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>>78605602
>>78610778
>>78610822
>>78614252
>>78614322

>all these fanatic undertale dipshits this mad over a penny arcade comic

>>78611459
>>78617990
the pandering isn't in the fact that the protagonist is female, the pandering is when the game dev goes "yeah im a feminist so i made our character a girl. this should separate us from the hordes of games that appeal to straight white cis men"

>>78610719
>>78625049
>>78617972

Undertale has broken the record in collective autism.

Here, have a listen for yourself.

>>78628353
I love you.

>>78628745
Forgot to link. Looks like I'm the autist.

https://soundcloud.com/alwaysaslutforsans

>>78610000
The "You could have stopped playing the game" bit IS legitimate. (Beyond the "Only winning move is to not play" War Games idea)

Walker keeps going, deeper and deeper into the hellhole that is Dubai when his mission was only to see if anyone was alive then get the hell out of there. "None of this would've happened if you just stopped."

Likewise, the player keeps going through with it because, well, that's what the game tells you to do. Of course you keep moving forward without too much of a second thought.

It's not really "You're an awful person!" it's more of a commentary on how game stories are told and how we take them at face value. The game, through extremes, forces the player to examine the narrative outside of gameplay context and go, "Whoa, hold on, what?"

tl;dr: It's less "You're awful" and more centered around player agency.

>>78605580
And Mike's input on the matter
>I have no idea what Tycho is talking about but I think we agree. If you asked me why I thought Undertale was stupid I’d just tell you it looked like shit and made no fucking sense. It is the videogame equivalent of the nonsense symbols crazy people draw on their walls with shit.

>>78615435
But there's the age old question of what actually is a "choice" and what's not?

If I say you have a "choice" between my kicking you in the balls with my left foot or my right foot, is that really freedom? I either way your nuts have a one-way ticket to boot town.

>>78617624

Ok this is like the 5th time in the thread I've seen you use 'Us Parents' to describe this shit. Did a nuclear family somehow bite you as a child?

>>78604739
Mike has always freely admitted that he just apes the style of whoever catches his eye at any given moment; like it or not this is the closest he's ever gotten to being 'himself' artistically. I did like the 'copy Joel Silver as much as humanly possible' years best but it's his thing.
>>78605602
The only thing Jerry would fuck harder than a Thesaurus is a leather-bound, hand-made edition of his own fucking writing.

Thing is, they both admit this freely. They just do this shit that a whole fuck of a lot of people have liked and paid stupid money for over the years. They have never particularly struck me as egotistical; I don't even think they liked the shit they did like stripsearch or most of their non-comic/non-Child's Play endeavors. Hell the only time they ever lost their proverbial shit and took things personally was the Dickwolves thing, and that was just Mike being triggered by his teen bullying PTSD in the worst way. Khoo put a stop to it because he's invested way too much money, time and effort to let him sperg out and ruin a multi-million dollar annual franchise.

>>78604739
I honestly can't tell if this is worse than CAD's art.

>>78608065
Brown hair is the one saying "I agree"

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>>78628874
...thank you anon?

>>78629419
The mental image this provides is amazing. Thank you, kind anon.

>>78604739
I just got reminded of this other game comic I used to read a long ass time ago. I think it was set in canada, and most strips were four panels long. I can also remember the setup to the website, but nothing about the fucking name. It was one of those "two guys" comics.

>>78624240
>Toby clearly isn't confident enough in his own writing to try writing a serious story, so everything is offbeat and wacky instead.
Or maybe the point of Undertale wasn't to be completely serious, but light-hearted and humorous with a few tinges of dark layered inside. The fact that the pacifist ending is "the power of friendship" should have clued you in on that.

Toby did a fine job presenting the story of a race of monsters stuck underground and what they are willing to do to get out. Alphys, the fucking anime-loving dinosaur, has severe issues with confidence after she made monsters out of monsters trying to figure out a way out, and Asgore set the underground on a course for war, purely based on emotion for the death of his blood and adopted sons, and couldn't let himself out of it lest the underground would fall to despair again.

Even Papyrus, the silly character that he is, is more complex than "he likes da spaghetti". His boisterous attitude is based on actual desire to become respected, thinking that is the only way to get ahead in life. He stood outside of Undyne's house for hours waiting to prove that he could be strong enough to be part of the royal guard. He is focused, intent on becoming someone that he would respect. And puzzles are just a common love from every monster.

You went into Undertale expecting brilliant meta-commentary. I'm almost positive that the furthest Toby thought in terms of this meta bullshit was "Wouldn't it be cool if an RPG let you not kill enemies if you wanted to?" and "Wouldn't it be cool if the game could tell when someone uses a save state to see 'both sides' of a path?"
Same reason why Gigi's thoughts in terms of meta bullshit was probably "Wouldn't it be cool if the Paper Mario formula was used in the comic's narrative, but the villains and narrative aren't actually what they appear to be?". You went in expecting platinum out of a gold bar, instead of taking the goddamn gold bar.

>>78629595
>hoo put a stop to it because he's invested way too much money, time and effort to let him sperg out and ruin a multi-million dollar annual franchise.
I'm imagining him in a board room, ranting at them hollywood movie villain style about how he's come too far to let some crazy art punks mess up his show now.

>You were nothing when I found you! Starving artists riddled with mental illnesses! I MADE YOU!

Reminder that fucking Postal of all things pulled a "you can complete the game without killing anyone and get a good ending" shit years before Undertale.

>>78613957
>>78613678
>>78613595
>>78613551
Fucking read this in their voices.

>>78604739
I think they're just fucking with us at this point.

>>78611323
To be fair, the whole "exit out to undo stuff" mechanic is not explained in-game. People who play the game as a "consequences game" would propably never think of it untill way later

>>78629194
Reminds me of the people who thought Homestuck was something incomprehensible instead of a fucking one-panel per page webcomic because they looked at the fanbase and immediately gave up.

>>78631152
>>78611323
>>78611323
You're not "supposed" to do it, its just something you can do.

In fact the first time you play you are probaby expected to kill quite a few things and not get guilt tripped until the very end, but the fanbase got so vocal that now everyone who tries the game gets yelled at if they get even close to accidentally killing something.

Undertale is a really great game but I went in with no expectations, there's so much common knowledge about it now a lot of the cleverness is lost.

I'm just sick of Undertale fans acting like their game is somehow super deep. The monsters are actually good guys. It's a deconstruction of Zelda like games where you usually kill all the monsters you meet. We get it. It's not a bad idea, but it's neither original or profound like Undertale fans pretend it is.

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I don't give a shit about undertale.

>>78605672

Just did

>>78630494

Seriously though, when he first met with them they didn't even technically own the comic. They have said outright that PA, as it has existed probably since 2003 or so when it 'took off' is almost entirely because of his efforts.

>>78631384
stop whining you bore

>thread doesn't start with some variation of "LOL"

It doesn't feel right.

>>78604739
>be obnoxious with Walking dead or last of us
>WHY PEOPLE LIKE UNDERTALE UNLIKE ME!!!

>>78604739
Who cares? They're Dreadful cunts. Especially the little one

>>78609627

>>What's Aidsmoby and Jay bummin doing there?

They aren't there.

Those are the real life creators of the comic

>>78609699

Have trouble reading?

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>>78605561
>>78605580

I love how even non-fans of Undertale were calling Jerry out on the pretentious purple prose of this blog entry

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>>78605561
>>78605580
>>78629194
These people are downright refusing to play the game and are desperately trying to sound smart or something for not playing it.

I played undertale the moment it came out. and was blown away at the ride. if you don't want to play it cool but holy shit you are autistic if you go out of your way to act like this. the reason people act cautious if you havent played it is because its mostly a story and people don't like to be the guys who spoil good shit.

clearly though these people are too caught up trying to be poetic savants and being confused at pictures on a screen.

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>>78605561
>>78605580

The funny thing is that Gabe said Undertale looked stupid but put The Order 1886 on his GOTY list, when that game represents the absolute worst of linear, story driven experiences.

Bad comparison. Nirvana was something new, Undertale is stale, manipulative drivel. I can't tell if the average fan is oblivious to how obvious the writing is or they just don't care. My parents were pre-Nirvana and I was post-Nirvana, neither of our generations were really the Nirvana generation and we can both agree that it's good music. It's just a matter of good taste.

But there was no shortage of stale, manipulative drivel that we liked as kids. Compare it to one of them. Like, I don't know, Teen Titans.

>>78631818
Maybe he is just a graphic whore.

>>78631797
Okay, where's the edit?

>>78631876
Does it need any edit?

>>78631830
Even taking that as true, that still makes them hypocrits, because apparently they're more than fine with other stale, manipulative drivel.
ie.
>>78631797
>>78631818

I mean, The Order 1886 on any sort of good games list, much less GOTY? He can't possibly have been serious.

Undertale fucking sucks

>>78631894
I don't really know or care what baldy and ADHD have said about Undertale, but there's nothing wrong with liking one indulgent thing and not liking another. Hell, you're even allowed to rant a little about how the thing you don't like being as popular as it is is a bad thing. Sure you can take it too far, but that's just their editorial prerogative.

After all, they dabble in editorials, not critical reviews.

>>78611345
>>78611345
>>"Too many words."
>So, are we advocating for Newspeak? Just, remove all those icky, polysyllabic words and boil everything down to grunts and body language?

Fucking asshats like you are the worst kind.

Brevity is the soul of wit - which you'd know if you had even a speck of it, you shitmuncher.

>>78631894
They didn't even play Metal Gear Solid V because they picked up Mad Max instead.

I can't think of anyone else whose job is related to video games who is so out of touch with the culture.

>>78631835
He is absolutely a graphics whore. I am completely unsurprised that he didn't give a fuck about Undertale. Tycho not liking it is surprising in a way, but not Gabe.
>>78631874
It takes balls to admit that not only wrong about your judgement, but that your initial judgement was made without even playing it. He's still a bag of shit for trying to act fucking high and mighty about the Temmies. Jesus. Sounds like someone's mad about all the money he spent on a degree that hasn't paid for itself.

I don't care if you think Undertale was shitty but anyone who hates something just because of fans or fan-work is retarded.

>>78631966
They've never liked MGS since 2 at least; they may not have been fans of the first but they took one look at 2's story and threw up their hands. This is nothing new for Penny Arcade.

>>78631975
I can't even decipher Tyccho's post to figure out why he didn't like it. Closest I can gather is that he's upset because it makes fun of or recontextualizes Classic RPG mechanics and since he's an old pretentious dude he likes all that stuff the way it was.

>>78611261

Yes.

He is bald.

Thank you for the timely rescue, Captain Fucking Obvious

>>78632005
It sounded to me more like he thinks the game is being given deference or accolades that it hasn't yet 'earned' or deserved, more because of the fanbase that's sprung up around it far more than the game itself, but he thinks the game isn't entirely without blame either. Like it's channeling Earthbound without any of the collective creative effort required to make it, making it somehow fake or insincere. If that's what he's saying, I get it, but I don't really agree with it.

>>78605561
>>78605580
God, what a pretentious cunt.

>>78614637
Any of the following

- Male pattern baldness
- Shaves head
- loss to childhood disease
- voluntary hair removal

Seriously. It's not that hard to figure out at all.

>>78614870

Why do people keep going on about their sides?

>>78632247
He's been losing it since he was like, 12. He had some hair in their earliest pictures sometime in the late 90s, but he rather smartly got rid of whatever was left soon after. Mike has surprised me in the sense that he went from a nervous looking beanpole to putting on just a little bit of weight and some facial hair and looking like a normal goddamned human being.

>>78632262
When they start moving on their own, it's noteworthy to mention.

>>78631753
That's every fucking entry, though. Jerry cannot write like a human being, he finds it absolutely necessary to write like a giant cock with his own hand wrapped around it or the words simply won't come out.

>>78613247
>we're never going to get gratification with this Gaster thing
Well, his very nature IS shrouded in darkness.
Darkertale 2017

>>78632262
It's a mutation of "Laughing so hard my sides hurt" as in the sides of your abdomen. It happens when particularly violent laughter causes your diaphragm to spasm repeatedly to the point of discomfort. See also "Side Splitting".

When someone proclaims "My sides!" it's supposed to imply that they're laughing very hard at something.

Also you're stupid.

>>78631874
>LOL MONKEY CHEESE I'M SO RANDOM

oh god why do people still think this is legitimate criticism

it always makes you look stupider than whatever you're trying to ridicule

always

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>>78632247
>Not getting the joke.

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>>78623354
>liked it when it came out
>refuse to finish it

If I'm reading your post correctly, how did you not finish a five hour at MOST game? You already paid 10 bucks for it, Do you have ADHD?

Like, fuck your spite, get your money's worth at least.

>>78632373

He asked a question

I answered it

>>78632356

And saying "That's hilarious" or a simple "LOL" doesn;t occur to them?

>>78632469
I can't vouch for everyone, anon, but I'm the kind of guy who hates saying the same thing over and over again.

I know about 50 variations of "yes" "no" and "hello" just because I hate saying the same thing twice in a conversation.

So having more than one way to say "Haha!" is useful to me.

>>78631879
Whoever made it felt so.

It was pleasingly lewd.

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>>78631876

>>78609916
How the fuck is it that every single person who's ever played Spec Ops has gotten their panties twisted into a knot over a single fucking line from a fucking loading screen? It wasn't even meant as a personal insult, it was setting the dramatic mood. It wasn't actually literally telling you to shut the game off and fuck off, it was hammering in the deconstruction of cinematic set piece shooters forcing you to constantly move forward. The people who made the game aren't actually mad at you for buying their product and then taking the time to play through it and it's fucking amazing that so many people think that they are.

>>78610780
I call it Earthbound 2 because people who've actually played Earthbound kept going "What the heck is Mother?" when I mention it. So I started calling it by the name that everyone would know what it is.

>>78612526
It's not that you have to to like Undertale, but saying you absolutely love games like Undertale and never playing the game it was based on is... rather phoney.

>>78632529
why the black screen now?

>>78632709
>It's not that you have to to like Undertale, but saying you absolutely love games like Undertale and never playing the game it was based on is... rather phoney.
By that logic, if you haven't read through the epic of gilgamesh you're not allowed to like any story because you don't know what modern literature is based on.

>>78632529
sublime
>>78632879
He doesn' thave to finish a game to have some quality time.
try to keep up, man

>>78632884
>by that logic

always an indicator that a real quality fucking post is going to be made.

>>78632966
If only every post could be an uncapitalized one line post about why other posts are shit, then this website would be golden.

>>78632709
>but saying you absolutely love games like Undertale and never playing the game it was based on is... rather phoney.
That's like saying that you are not allowed to enjoy Super Metroid if you haven't played the NES Metroid
There is absolutely nothing phoney about that. Here is how it work
-Play a game
-Enjoy the game
-Say you enjoy the game.

Whether or not you have played the inspiration source is irrelevant. If you have enjoyed a game there is absolutely nothing phoney about saying you enjoyed it.

>>78632950
>game

>>78617990
1/3 of /v/ posters are trolls looking for damage control. You've been bamboozled.

>>78610507
This is something that annoyed me too. The game does it's best to railroad you down the path of Neutral->Pacifist->Genocide no matter what your original intentions might have been because the whole meta-narrative is designed to go in that order.

The only way for people to get the Pacifist ending first, even if they began playing with the intention of hurting no one from the very beginning is to have already watched a walkthrough or to have received guidance from someone else beforehand because the battle with Toriel explicitly tells you that doing anything but fighting her will have no effect which is something that never happens throughout the rest of the game. And then the sudden huge amount of damage that she takes at the end prevents the player from trying any last minute attempts to spare her out of desperation.

>>78633182
>Pacifist->Genocide
That's a straight up lie because the game actually goes out of its way to tell you to fuck off and stop playing after the Pacifist route. It spends a significant bit of time telling you that there's no need to go back and play genocide just to feel like you've "completed" the game, and if you do go ahead and do it anyway it chastises you for it the whole way through.

Also one of the frogs warns you that some characters cannot be fought and it tells you to spare people even if they will not let you spare them, and it does it before you fight toriel. And if you do accidentally kill toriel because you didn't take the hint, you can just reload the save and the game takes it into account and accepts it and even fits it into the narrative, so you're not even breaking the game.

So basically everything about your post is wrong.

>>78610507
But the game is built around "breaking" game mechanics.

>>78633225
>That's a straight up lie because the game actually goes out of its way to tell you to fuck off and stop playing after the Pacifist route.
What is reverse psychology and going out of it's way to remind you that there is still one more route left?

>Also one of the frogs warns you that some characters cannot be fought and it tells you to spare people even if they will not let you spare them
This is something I took into account on my first playthrough, but after attempting to spare her several times and getting no response I assumed that I would have to wait until she was on low health before i could do anything. Then when she was the sudden huge amount of damage for literally no reason killed her before I could try anything. I'm sure that plenty of other people had the same thing happen.

>you can just reload the save
I don't know why anyone would do this on their first run of a game that is obviously about choice and consequences for your actions. Even if the game does accept it there's no way to know that unless you do it first.

Besides it's actually impossible to get the pacifist ending before the neutral one even if you do spare Toriel, which makes no sense because nothing about Undyne and Alphys' date or Alphys' laboratory causes the pacifist ending to happen, it's the fact that you have made close bonds with all the characters you have encountered.

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>>78633396
>What is reverse psychology
Four words in and I'm at a total loss.

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>>78633424

>>78633465
The game stopping you, telling you to knock it off, and then outright pleading with you to not fuck it all up is not fucking 'reverse psychology' to get you to go back and kill everything.

>buh buh why would it say that there's another path at all

It doesn't, not until you actually go back and reopen the game, obviously with the intention of replaying it, most likely for the other path. Only when you take steps towards fucking it all up does it stop you and ask you to not do that. Then when you do that it berates you for not listening at every turn, through several characters. That's not reverse fucking psychology. When mommy told you not to hit other kids on the playground she wasn't secretly egging you on by letting you in on the secret that you could potentially hit other kids, and that's reinforced by the fact that she grounded your dumb ass when you went out and did it anyway because 'reverse psychology'.

>>78610507
>>78633182
>have already watched a walkthrough or to have received guidance
To be fair the demo already had Toriel's battle, so Toby didn't change a thing because the backers knew how to deal with the first boss.

>>78633527
That analogy is pretty stupid because unlike the mother in that scenario Toby spent months writing an interesting and compelling scenario with new music and assets as well as designing the two most complex and enjoyable battles in the game, he didn't for them to go untouched. He obviously expected some people to stop after the Pacifist ending but Flowey's speech before the Sans battle shows that he knows the mindset of many of the people who would play his game and probably shares it himself and he knows that they would want to experience every route. I don't know how you can't understand the appeal of playing the bad guy in a make-believe scenario and the game telling you to stop only adds to the experience.

>>78633548
This is fair enough, although at this point only a fraction of the people who played the full game tried the demo beforehand.

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It seems to me that more than 90% of the people who bash Undertale have either never played it or knew everything about it before they played it. I went into it 100% blind knowing absolutely nothing of what to expect and it ended up being my GOTY. If you know ahead of time that the game has multiple endings and set paths based on mercy/kills then you are just ruining the experience for yourself. I went into it not knowing that I could spare literally everybody without engaging in conflict and the experience became that much more impactful to me, yet I see people play for their first time knowing that they need to spare everyone to get the best ending and then they come out of it underwhelmed. Well, fucking yeah, you basically neutered the whole experience for yourself by looking up what to do ahead of time, of course it's going to disappoint you.

>>78605561
>>78605580
I am not a native speaker but I like to think my english is pretty good. I dont understand what the fuck he's trying to say.
It's one thing to use more obscure words to express what you mean, its another to use them to avoid having to say anything outright. My native language is incredibly precise and blunt, not like english, and this writing just pisses me off cause he's trying to dance around the issue while still sounding like he's addressing it.

I can understand people not liking Undertale but at least most people arent pretencious cunts about it.

>>78633828
Don't worry, I'm a native English speaker and I have no idea what the fuck he's saying either. He's basically using a bunch of smart-sounding words but saying very little.

>>78633800
I went in knowing you could spare everyone and that doing that was probbably a good idea, with only that knowledge I still thoroughly enjoyed the experience. But to me it's like a movie with only really 1 or 2 twists. If you know that twist ahead of time you can still enjoy the movie but it wont blow your mind with how little things it uses to set up the twist. you just kind of acknowledge it.

I really enjoyed the movie Sunshine, but I cant tell anyone what it's about because it only really has 1 twist that upsets the status quo, telling people about it ruins the entire movie's story.

>>78633690
>He obviously expected some people to stop after the Pacifist ending but Flowey's speech before the Sans battle shows that he knows the mindset of many of the people who would play his game and probably shares it himself and he knows that they would want to experience every route. I don't know how you can't understand the appeal of playing the bad guy in a make-believe scenario and the game telling you to stop only adds to the experience.

I don't think you're neurologically capable of understanding basic theory of mind because that is some serious projection.

Given that the entire point of the narrative is fighting against the general RPG/video game mindset that it is necessary to kill things just because they're there, complete paths just because they're there, and become a total genocidal maniac after formerly being the holiest of saints just because you can, it's pretty obvious that he wasn't fucking funneling you towards a genocidal route and that was entirely your own choice.

But that message completely, 100% flew over your head because you took the path just because it was there, and then you actually went and said it was his fault for having the path there in the first place and he probably wanted you to do it all along because you felt like being an asshole and flowey telling you to not genocide everything made you want to genocide everything.

I'm just, what?

>>78633981
If Toby wanted to punish people for choosing genocide he would have made it boring as fuck but instead he made it just as fun and interesting as the other two routes, arguably more so. The reason why games like the Stanley Parable are so popular is because breaking the supposed "rules" of a game and watching it try to fight back against you is a fun experience.

>The entire point of the narrative is fighting against the general RPG/video game mindset that it is necessary to kill things just because they're there, complete paths just because they're there, and become a total genocidal maniac after formerly being the holiest of saints just because you can

But nothing drives that point home harder than the genocide route, specifically the verbal slamming and guilt trip that Flowey and Sans give the player at the end.

And anyway my original point was that there's a specific order that the game forces you to go in to get every route, which is true. The game locks you out of the pacifist ending before you get the neutral ending and although it's possible to get the genocide ending from the start the game obviously intends for you to get it, if at all, after completing a pacifist route, hence why Flowey brings it up after you restart following a pacifist ending.

>>78605561
>>78605580

Have you ever been so far up your own ass that you wrote a pageful of pseudointellectual buzzwords to justify your opinion of simply not liking a game but blowing it way out of proportion and going as far as to call it a "non-game"?

>>78634194
I hate the fact that he probably will brush off all the criticism to this brainfart of his by just saying "haha, look at all these butthurt undertale fanboys!"

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>>78632091
>>78632247
newfags detected

>>78605672
Not him, but I have a very low tolerance for a game pulling "ugh how can you, the player, be such a shitty person! Come on, it's 2015! Don't you feel bad for murdering these pixels?!"

It was annoying in Spec Ops: the Line, and its annoying here. Especially when the monsters attack you without provokation, but the game and characters start treating you like a bad guy for defending yourself. Sure you can go pure pacifist on repeat playthroughs, but it's still annoying. Doubly so when you lock the games best content behind the evil path and then attack the player for trying to get their money's worth.

Basically, guilt tripping the player is a supremely lazy way to give a game depth, and I've never seen it done in a non-hamfisted way. It's pure pretension.

>>78628745
>broken the record in collective autism
Isn't nearly as big as MLP was, nor does it have the longevity of Homestuck.

>>78634649
Give it time

>>78606952
I see what you did there sans.

If you haven't played undertale but are posting here you are wasting your time.

>>78634571
Never played the game, but doesn't it only call you shitty if you go out of your way to kill everyone, even the ones who don't attack you? There are scripted events that are basically designed to get you off the genocide path if you're not ok with killing innocents.