What was the point of his heel-turn?

>>78598974
Jessica had a BAD FEELING about him

>>78598974
Filler and/or setting up something in season 2

>>78598974
Heel turn? He was always a bad guy.

>>78598974

The violent sleeper boyfriend masked as the nice guy.

>>78599062
>>78599184
To be fair it was more the drug's fault, although that kind of makes it more retarded

>>78598974
He's a villain in the comics. This was inevitable.

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>>78598974
To introduce a comic character. They couldn't just have him be a random cop. Marvel fans need references! The more obscure, the better.

>>78598974
the show needed a secondary antagonist, plus it helped set up the evil organization for The Defenders to fight

>>78599062
No he was not except when killgraved or nuked.

>>78599219
in the same way that everything would have been resolved smoothly had they just killed kilgrave when they had the chance, everything would have been resolved smoothly had Nuke not jumped at the chance to get onto the drug again just because he hated the idea of not single handedly taking kilgrave down

>>78599312

>Nuke

>Obscure

Nigga you tripping. Nukes been in alot of comics.

>>78599219
He's the dumbass that took the drug in the first place, and they even mentioned that he's gone psycho before, knew, and didn't care.

>>78598974
A better question is, why'd they have to get a guy that looked so much like Cap?

>>78599421
not in any popular comics

>>78599602
Isn't Nuke's whole thing is that he's an evil Cap?

>>78599683
I don't know, I'm a filthy fucking casual who doesn't read comics.

>>78599683
yeah. cap is the american dream, born of immigration and nazi punching
nuke is the american nightmare, born of vietnam and xenophobia

>>78599725
Sounds like a fun guy

>>78598974
To show how evil it is to want the show to end in only six episodes.

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>>78599668
Frank Miller's Daredevil run is extremely popular.

>>78599683
No, he is not evil at all, he is misguided, and extreme but is well intentioned, and his drug and cybernetic alterations enhance this badly.

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>>78599683
>>78600177

>>78600177
>>78600301
Wow, what an asshole.

>>78600420
He is a asshole for wanting to protecting and aid his fellow soldiers?

How else would they pad out the series?

>>78599062
Well, he IS a cop after all.

>>78600530
More Boregrave, I guess.
>tfw a filler villain was more menacing in one scene than the main villain was in the entire series

Answered a Simpson-related question on a different thread earlier today, think it applies here too:

Jessica Jones, as a show, is HUGELY feminist. You couldn't have a show that focuses on women fighting for their independence and right to self-control without showing what they're fighting against. Kilgrave is the obvious villain, but Simpson is just as bad in his own way.

Kilgrave was the face side of the patriarchal coin - he saw women as objects, believed his power and his personal suffering entitled him to do what and who he wanted. He was the obvious evil, the leering boss, the rapist, the guy who thinks women owe him attention just because.

Simpson was the flip side of the coin - the way he treated women didn't appear overtly bad. He was superficially respectful. But it was obvious to see that he didn't actually respect the women he was with. His self-image was built around being the stereotypical manly man - strong, virtuous, defender of women. Once that was challenged by his initial brainwashing, he starts spiraling quickly. First, he GOES BACK to the woman he abused, and imposes himself on her until she forgives him. Once he becomes the protector again, he pushes hard to keep the role - inserting himself into Jessica and Trish's plans several times against their wishes. He dislikes Jessica because she's strong enough to not need him. And when he eventually realizes Jessica is capable of stopping Kilgrave where he can't, he does absolutely anything to regain his control/role. In the end, it isn't about Trish anymore, she's just the trophy that Simpson feels entitled to as the protector. Simpson is the abusive boyfriend / husband, the guy who claims to love women, but hates it if they're more than just a wife/mother.

tl;dr: It wasn't a heel-turn, he was always a shit-heel. It just took a while for it to become obvious.

>>78599391

he never trusted Jessica that she would do the right thing and kill killgrave because he saw what retarded things she'll do to capture him alive.

>>78599668
>born again
>not popular

What a fucking casual

>>78601497
That's actually a great analysis. I can see how Nuke believes women are delicate and need men to think and make decisions for them.

That being said, he still seemed like a good guy, even with those beliefs. Well, until he took those drugs.

>>78601497
If the show were that feminist, why was Jessica Jones clinically retarded and why did she turn to patriarchal institutions like the police or the reporter when she fucked everything up?

>>78601907
Well, I don't think anyone claimed Jessica was smart. She is tenacious though.

>>78601920
So was Nuke, that's not an inherently good trait. Why is one better?

>>78601934
Nuke killed innocents like that cop. Jess is a wreck but Nuke was even more misguided.

>>78601497
good post

>>78601497
>Jessica Jones, as a show, is HUGELY feminist.

I thought the same as well, I also considered such thoughts may be biased because I sometimes visit /pol/.

I saw the whole point is that Jessica is trying to get over her last abusive relationship, where she was not only physically but also psychicaly raped, eventhough she was such a strong woman who doesn't need no man, she was still persuaved to do things she didn't want to and the whole point was, it was not her fault, she dindu nuffin.

I atleast think that many feminist are gonna see it this way, they are gonna ignore that Killgrave has magical powers and are gonna say that this is the way how abusive relationships work, that a woman has no choice other than follow orders and go along with what the man wants, no matter how strong they are and if they do something wrong, then its not their fault.

Also every white man is either weird, materearlistic, hypocritical or evil and the black man is a misunderstood good guy with a heart of gold.

Nevertheless, I really liked this show, it didn't have much action but Kilgrave has been one of the better Marvel villians.

>>78601985
>Luke Cage
>heart of gold

Not even close.

>>78601976
Jessica's misguided tenacity to get that girl acquitted of murdering her parents directly resulted in Kilgrave getting free, the girl killing herself, as well as all the other awful stuff that happened once he escaped. There's at least a double digit body-count because of Jessica's tenacity.

>>78602052
Jess made mistakes and they were big ones. Nuke put the gun in a guy's face and pulled the trigger. It's really the one thing I can't forgive.

>>78602095
And morality of shooting a dude in the face even accounted for, he still had the most hand in getting shit done than anyone else. He shot Killgrave with the dart (that he got) and put him in the isolation chamber (that he also got and rigged). Without Nuke, Jessica and her sister would still be trying to figure out how to get Kilgrave off the streets. His goal was "eliminate Kilgrave" and if Jessica and her own tenacity weren't in the show, it would have been wrapped up inside of 7 episodes.
So I guess the question comes down to what is the moral net gain. Remaining "pure" and by your actions getting a dozen plus people mutilated and killed or shooting a guy in the face to put a very dangerous person in the ground?
Is the show presenting that one of those viewpoints is the inherently feminist one?

>>78601907

The police and the news are where you're TOLD to go when bad shit happens. One of the biggest analogies in the show was Kilgrave's mind-control powers as a stand in for how society often handles rapists. Initially, nobody believed that he existed. She couldn't go to the police initially, because there wasn't any proof of what he did, much like how the only evidence of rape vanishes within hours (discarded clothing, showers destroying DNA evidence, lack of witnesses, quick breakdown of date rape drugs, etc.). When people (aside from Trish) finally did start believing her, it was because there was a growing number of victims, who told stories consistent across encounters, like a rapist's MO. (Think Cosby and his fondness for drugging victims, the Boston Strangler using the women's own clothing to choke them, and so on) When Kilgrave started getting public attention from the police and the press, he retaliated - think Cosby's defamation of character lawsuits against people accusing him of sexual assault, or the more direct method of rapists buying off or intimidating their victims into silence. And the entire time, Jessica was getting told to just get over it, or to let it go, or to let someone else handle it.

And ultimately, Jessica did abandon those 'patriarchal institutions'. Her final act was to find her rapist with the support of her friends, catch him in the act of violating other people red-handed, and to execute him for it. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a feminist fantasy, because many women wouldn't want to go THAT far, but... plenty of women would.

>>78602362
That's not the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that the ultimate climax of the Kilgrave events, the climax we're supposed to be rooting for the character for making, was the exact outcome that Nuke had been aiming for from the start, only with the addition of about twenty more mutilated corpses.

If Jessica Jones is trying to be a feminist show, it did a bad job of it.

>>78598974
MY BOYS

>>78602174
> shooting a guy in the face to put a very dangerous person in the ground?

But that wasn't necessary. He was deluded. I agree that Jessica's personal feelings and goals for Kilgrave ultimately endangered and killed people, but she was still struggling to balance what was right and what was satisfying. Jessica fucked up even though I'm convinced she's fundamentally good, and she should be held accountable to her actions.

Nuke was a slightly different beast. He took drugs that severely interfered with his ability to make sound judgements and he executed a cop who only wanted to help bring Kilgrave to justice. Nuke was just morally compromised as Jessica. He claimed killing Kilgrave was what was right but that was just an excuse foe his own revenge. He wanted to kill Kilgrave for what he did to him. For taking away his control of himself.

>>78599219
Not really. He was on super amphetamines or whatever. He had huge increases in aggression and rage.

>>78602435

Only if you assume that being a feminist show means the women have to be perfect. They don't. (And that's a large part of why Jeryn Hogarth got so much screen time, to illustrate the point that female empowerment doesn't necessarily mean making GOOD choices.) And I wouldn't concede that Nuke's solution was the 'right' one anyway. It was A solution, but taking it meant that Hope Shlottman stayed in jail forever, nobody could prove that the guy who left his baby on the sidewalk and drove off was forced to do it, and that all the other victims in similar situations were likewise screwed. Jessica's original plan WAS viable, it even worked - Kilgrave was caught and secured. A few different factors just combined to undo that plan.

>>78602611
Why is Nuke's behavior on the pills unacceptable when the apparent crux of the show is that Jessica dindu nuffin under Killgrave's influence because he made her do it? Even in the show it comes up that Killgrave never told Jessica to kill whats-her-tits, that she decided to do that all herself. If we accept that Killgrave and Nuke's pills do the same things, lower inhibitions, are they not both the same?

>>78602648
Nuke chose the pills. He knew what he was like on them, and he chose them, and when he saw that the pills were making him lose his relationships, he took more pills and tried to force everyone to forgive him and do what he wanted.

Not a single person in the show chose to be mind controlled by Kil

>>78602648
Kilgrave's powers aren't the same as drugs. Nuke chose to take drugs. He made radical decisions while on those drugs.

Jessica didn't choose to be mind controlled, nor could she control herself at all.

>>78602648
>Even in the show it comes up that Killgrave never told Jessica to kill whats-her-tits, that she decided to do that all herself.

He said "take care of her". We know what he meant, Jessica knew what he meant, Kilgrave knew what he meant. His claim that it was all on Jessica was the rationale of a narcissist - he didn't say the EXACT WORDS, so he can't be held accountable. It's gaslighting, rewriting history so his ego is protected and Jessica feels like a monster, and it's a textbook classic abuse tactic.

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>>78599683
No, he is a suffering Vietnam vet with a very misguided and warped sense of what it is to serve his country and he is also fucked up in the head, he is someone Steve pities and is very frustrated about especially since he has tried to reform him but Nuke just pushes Steve's buttons.

Then there's US Agent, he's not evil in any way but he's so fucking out there and I love him.

You can say 50's Cap is Evil Cap although there is Anti-Cap too soooo....

>>78598974
It's a tie-in to Agents of SHIELD.

Hail HYDRA!

>>78599062
>>78599219
he was always deranged but was trying to get better.
purple dude and jessica antics caused him to relapse

>>78598974

What was the organization he was working for anyway?

Heel-turn against you, so be careful.

>>78599683
>>78599725
>>78602776
Cap is the american military as it is imagined to be in its idealized form.
USagent is what it really is.
Nuke is what it becomes during war.

>>78602031
He was talking about the junkie next door.
The weird thing about Luke is that he's at times Jessica's trophy, and at times her battered housewife.

>>78602637
>It was A solution, but taking it meant that Hope Shlottman stayed in jail forever
Hope would have been fine if Jessica arrived in time to pick her up, instead she got wasted and overslept

My biggest beef with the show, what is with all of the Luke cage/ Jones fucking. Should have been 2 max and it tells the strength joke plus show they will be together eventually.

Was Jessica Jones (in the series) a mary sue?

>>78604155
She was a broken mess.
How the fuck was she a mary sue?

>>78600585
Underrated post

>>78599219
>implying he wasn't just using kilgrave as an excuse to feel the power from the drugs again

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>It's a Killgrave escapes episode

>>78603845
But how will the audience know they like each other if they don't have multiple 5 minute long scenes zoomed into Luke's face as he orgasms?

>>78598974
I like to imagine that writers forgot Will Simpson was supposed to be Frank Simpson and wrote him too competent and then realized "oh fuck, he's that Nuke guy, we weren't supposed to make him the new "was right guy"".

>>78604658
Yo, is that safe?

>>78598974
>All white males are evil or useless

>>78598974
To show how some people have trouble adapting to a world with superpowered people.

When compared to people like Jessica and Kilgrave, he felt powerless, and took steps to gain power even if it put people around him in danger.

>>78601985
>Also every white man is either weird, materearlistic, hypocritical or evil and the black man is a misunderstood good guy with a heart of gold.
Almost all of the characters are fucked up in one way or another. It's actually even-handed in portraying men and women and people of different races.

And Trendy Guy did nothing wrong.

>>78607611
So were all the women.

The only character who wasn't immoral or incompetent was Luke.

>>78608046
You mean the Luke that tried to murder an innocent bus driver, and then spent the climactic story arc either mind controlled or comatose?

>>78600301
Is he bj blasko?

>>78609116
>hating cops is tumblr
Ah, an Amerifat. Go eat a burger, people from civilized countries are talking.

>>78598974
What was the point of this whole show?
Jessica Jones in the comics is a woman dealing with real shit and on the TV show, she got raped.

>>78601497
This.

Also, thanks to his relationship with Trish, he also fits the role of the abusive boyfriend. He pops his pills, gets super pissed, and then starts beating on women and breaking things.

>>78612095
>hating cops is civilized
Coming from someone that actually lives in a shitty third world country, what the fuck?

>>78612267
>pops his pills, gets super pissed, and then starts beating on women and breaking things
In other words, the guy is simply living a dream.

>>78604658

>it's a Kilgrave is nice, charming or witty and makes you forget he's a complete asshole for a while episode

is this what happens? girls know the guy is a total prick, but get blinded by a small burst of kindness so they go back to him for yet another heartbreak?

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>>78601497
>Jessica Jones, as a show, is HUGELY feminist.
Fuck off

>>78601985
You really should fuck off back to your containment board.

>>78612605
Nah, that's just an improvement over him being a terrible villain, so at least if they kept him trying to be heroic he'd be less boring as a character.
>charming
He never is. Tennant has zero charisma, only tumblr girls who want to fuck him think otherwise.

>>78612610
It is though. It very clearly is

>>78612610
Nah man, it really is. And all meme-ing aside, there's nothing wrong with that. I think the show was pretty good, but it's still working with a lot of feminist themes of abuse. Some they execute well on, and others they muddy up, but the subtext is there.

I'm not saying it's "SJW" or "tumblr," but it is pretty feminist.

>>78613129
>Some they execute well
Hell, no. The entire show has the subtlety of a ton of bricks.

Why did Luke have super strength rivaling that of Jessica, yet the show always says his super power is his indestructible skin and his superhuman strength is never even mentioned?

I mean, the show did have problems, if we're going to talk about social justice and representation and all that (since that's where this thread has been going). Clemons dying was them just crimping the Ben Urich death from Daredevil, and much less tastefully. At least we got to know Ben before he died and saw his funeral. Clemons got shot in his face and burned, and then forgotten about after Jessica finds the body. The only black women aside from Rosario Dawson (who shows up for only one episode and whose only role is to babysit Luke Cage) were a dead wife, an unfaithful wife, and a doctor who gets 30 seconds of screentime. White women (Jessica, Patty, Hogarth and her wife) are the only characters who have any actual agency in the show, and there is not a single good portrayal of Hispanic people present. I mean, holy fuck, that Cissy character was a ridiculous stereotype and I couldn't believe they got away with it. For a show claiming to be oh so progressive, they're kinda racist.

>>78614967
Way it seemed to be was that they both had super strength and durability, but Jessica was stronger and Luke was more durable.

>>78616566
>For a show claiming to be oh so progressive
The show doesn't claim to be anything. The creators have never even mentioned race at all.

>>78614967
Being super-durable means you can just ALWAYS PUNCH AS HARD AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN without giving any fucks about possibly hurting yourself. Luke's a pretty big dude as-is, so he's got a lot of strength to just throw around.

In a lot of ways, that's a much more useful power than Jessica's relatively basic super strength.

>>78616566
Do people like you really exist? You really watch a show and then you keep a checklist ready of how many minorities were represented and how well they have been represented? The only racist one is you. You are literally a racist.

>>78603806
>she got wasted and overslept
She got attacked and knocked the fuck out by an angry mob

What was up with Jessica's powers?
She seemed incredibly shitty with her power levels, one moment she's bending steel and jumping up fucking skyscrapers and then next a couple of random people can just totally wreck her.
Was there even a single fight she actually won?

>>78616874

if he can still get concussions, he can still get bones broken if hit hard enough. skin is indestructible, but what's inside isn't.

>>78618025
Yeah her powerlevel was just all over the place, especially when she was fighting Luke or Simpson on his rage drug. I don't care if she had a broken rib and he was on some sort of super combat drug, but one fucking punch should have fucking shattered his jaw and knocked him out cold.

>>78617334
No, that was one or two nights before.
She drank herself stupid and passed out on the couch.

>>78619048
That incident happened the night before she was supposed to pick up Hope

>>78618025
She's strong, somewhere above Cap's level, but only slightly more durable then normal and not skilled at all.

>>78618025
she enjoyed being raped

Wouldnt be surprised if him and FRANK worked together at some point

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>>78622844
>Netflix Defenders Episode a few years in the future.
>Jon Bernthal's Punisher goes up against Nuke
>The entire episode is a battle of attrition throughout the entirety of the city.
>One attack has a picture of Bernthal doing the signature FRANK face (pic related) on a monitor before it explodes as a bomb.

FUND IT.

>>78623038
is it really a "face" if he's always making it?

>>78598974
Drugs are bad

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>>78623098
Yes, Frank sometimes channels his inner "FRANK" when making the face.

FRANK is love, FRANK is life.

>>78601497
Not a bad analysis...the only problem is Simpson was right all along, they needed to fucking off that guy and if they had it would have saved a lot of lives Also, they need to for OUR BOYS