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Jobbers

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Who is your favorite jobber? Did they ever get a moment of glory or did they stay a chump or a joke?

A jobber is wrestling slang for a guy who's allegedly a badass but loses fights, generally to make the other guy look good.
>>
Krillin did it better

You actually cared when he got punked
>>
Worf will always be my favorite jobber, but he's not /co/.
>>
>>78222109
>Yamcha
>Badass
Yamcha never won any fight of importance in the series. And that's how it should be. The only people who like him are self-inserting cucks.
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This guy
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The only modern example I could think of
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>>78222306
I wanted to like him...when he first showed up, I thought he was a pretty cool guy

It all went downhill after Puar cut off Goku's tail
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>>78222306
He almost won against hungry 12 years old Goku.

He almost was Goku's first real rival.
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Pic related.

At least he got some cool scenes against Junketsu Ryuko, the COVERS and Nui.
>>
>>78222337

I'm a SU fan and even I'm sure you're shit posting
>>
>>78222366
>He almost was Goku's first real rival.
Almost

But then he became the guy who got eliminated in the first round of each Tenkaichi

Krillian was more of a rivial but even more so was Tien
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>>78222337
She stomped the shit out of Pearl, though
And Crystal Clods couldn't catch her for like half of a year
And that with her being just a nerd-midget model
>>
>>78222403
egh, he was overall charming and in the end he was on the winning team side
He's not at 100% jobber status
>>
>>78222109
Thug in piece senpai.
>>
>>78222491
Don't get me wrong, he ended on a pretty damn high note but for 2/3's of the show he did nothing but job.
>>
>>78222109
Jobbing would imply he deserved to win in any of the fights he was involved in.

Jesus fucking Christ, you idiots use the term jobbing wrong.
>>
>>78222319
People job to him, it's not the other way around, Sladefag.

Don't try to bring other media into this, it's just karma for him always getting to one up people out of his weight class.
>>
>>78222443
I still like her character. I just was referring to how she started out all stoic and intimidating, but became a low-threat dork.
>>
The Spectre and Silver Surfer are kept around for this.
>>
>>78222403
>>78222512
Plus, he brutalized Ryuko's ass so bad she had to run for her life.

At least he gets one certifiable, definitive win, compared to someone like Yamcha.
>>
>>78222109
At least he can claim that he was the first one to tap Bulma
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Greatest jobber of all time
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>>78222640
Allegedly the first

She never had a kid until the one time she actually admitted to having sex and that was with Veggie
>>
>>
These guys. Thor level powers, actual teamwork most bad guys are incapable of, yet they seem to usually show up in Issue #1s to get their butts kicked.
>>
>>78222222
>>
Really? Nobody has mentioned Martian Manhunter yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-edqockL90
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>>78222403
>manages to beat the shit out of the main character so hard she runs away fearing for we life
>MC never gets revenge on him

And you're implying he's a jobber
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>>78222228
This. There's a reason jobbing used to be called "The Worf effect"
>>
Whats a jobber?
>>
>>78222109
jobber?
>>
>>78223807
>>78223822
It's a pro wrestling term, someone set up to lose just so that whoever beat him looks stronger.
>>
Delete this shitty thread and go back to >>>/a/
>>
>>78223807
>>78223822
>OP defines "jobber" in his post.
>>
>>78223866
Do you somehow only think jobbing happens in anime? It comes up in comic book discussion all the time.
>>
>>78223866
Because only anime has jobbers.

https://youtu.be/nXrlhN9rPoc
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I mean he kind stopped the Hulk one time but otherwise it's just painful.

At least he hasn't really been used since everything ends.
>>
>>
>>78222220

Ha, fuck no. I always hated Krillin. Yamcha is were it's at.
>>
>>78223807
>>78223822
Did... you not read the second fucking line of my post? Was it not clear? How do you not get this and are you the same person?
>>
>>78223312
This is immediately what I thought of, but I've never read Martian Manhunter in comics, so I don't know if he jobs there too.
>>
>>78222220
Yep, you got to feel bad.
"Aw shit niggas, I got powered up, strongest human. I'm easily in the top 50 in the entire universe."
"Welp, I'm dead."
>>
>>78222220
not really

something i never really got about dragonball z is why having the bad guy beat the shit out of the secondary characters is supposed to make us feel worried for goku

its like if you made an avengers story where its like "oh no the new bad guy beat the shit out of hawkeye and captain america? what does this mean for thor?"
>>
>>78224258
At least with some of the fights it comes down to other people besides Goku, like the Vegeta fight.
>>
>>78224216
What I liked about Krillin was that he always went in even knowing he was going to get squashed. But scared as he was, he felt he had to help his idiot best friend's idiot kid not die or to buy time for Goku to get there or whatever.

Yamcha on the other hand always went in talking about how he was going to end it quickly, no sweat.
>>
>>78222609
>Plus, he brutalized Ryuko's ass
That lucky son of a bitch.
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>>78222109

Kuwabara is the greatest bro in anime history.

>>78222403

he too is awesome.
>>
>>78224258

The point about that was: A) you wory about the prospect of the bad guy murdering any of the secondaries, and b) you get pumped up for the inevitable fit of rage that Goku's gonna experience as a result.
>>
>>78224338
>>78224216
>>78222220
Krillian was best in Dragon Ball, where he was legit useful, and ended up helping other people win (including even Yamcha, for fucks sake) even after he got his ass kicked, via his powers of strategy and comedic bullshit.
>>
>>78224206
Martian Manhunter is literally green Piccolo. He drops, therefore he is.
>>
>>78224423
*jobs
>>
>>78224529
>in Dragon Ball, where he was legit useful, and ended up helping other people win (including even Yamcha, for fucks sake)

When was this? I don't recall any time he did anything other than get killed by Tamborine.

And wasn't it Bulma and Master Roshi who helped Yamcha win that one fight?
>>
>>78224537

So he's literally Piccolo.
>>
>>78222109
The best thing about Yamcha is that he's still like the 3rd or 4th strongest human on the entire planet.

He's already AT LEAST stronger than Recoome who was MUCH stronger than Vegeta during his first visit to earth.

Vegeta during that time was a PLANET buster.

Yamcha has the unfortunate fate of being human in a series where that race doesn't mean shit other than beeing breeding factories for other saiyan.

Put Yamcha in almost any other Anime and he's the strongest character on the show by far. It's not his fault that in his universe he has to play jester to literal gods.
>>
>>78224732
>He's already AT LEAST stronger than Recoome
That was never shown or stated
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>>78224778
The ded z fighters with king kai all got to fight a ginyu.

Recoome was yamcha's
>>
>>78224586
https://youtu.be/2tMJRXyWWXA

Krillian's plan, using those two.

He managed to use comic book physics to get Yamcha a win. Probably the only real one he's had since that time a hungry Goku jobbed to him. Proof that Krillian is a tactical geinus, or at least was in Dragon Ball, when comedy was a viable power
>>
>>78224800
No, that was anime filler, it never happened.

That aside, it's fucking stupid anyways.
Yamcha, Tien and whatnot become stronger then the Ginyu Force after training on King Kai's planet for less time than Goku did? Bullshit.

And why was the Ginyu Force even there? They were Frieza's chief executive murderers.
They would have never been allowed to travel Snake Way in the first place.
>>
>>78223312
This is just mean
>>
>>78222337
But Peridot has always been weak.
>>
>>78222580
That's not jobbing. She didn't lose to make anyone seem strong. She just was revealed to be very weak.
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>>78224866
iirc dead frieza busted them out of spirit world jail and the dead heros busted their asses
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>>78224866
Filler still adhears to canon power levels.
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>>78222109
Get your facts straight OP. Gohan is the new Yamcha now.
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>>78222109
>>
>>78224940
Well that's depressing
>>
>>78224537
>Green Piccolo
>>
>>78224955
>I'm not a robot
lol'd
>>
>>78224940
>Actually watching Super

Why are you doing this to yourself, man?
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>>78222109
>fight with Kinnikuman was some of my favorite shit ever
>jobs to Stereo Cassette King
>jobs to Buffaloman, mostly
>gets wrecked without even fighting in the Golden Mask arc
>jobs to Hell Missionaries
>has a good fight against The Manriki
>think he's going to have a good fight against Mammothman but he jobs off screen before the battles even start

I'll never forget that first fight though
>>
>>78224940
Sad but true

They always did share the same hair cuts, now they share the same fate. At least Gohan has potential that has slipped back into tapped.
>>
>suddenly i'm in /a/ thread
>>
>>78224866
You said it was never shown.
I showed you it was.
Now you want to move goal posts.

Fuck you.
>>
>>78224927
Frieza couldn't bust them out of anything, he was trapped in a cocoon in Hell, as shown in Resurrection F.

>>78224935
No.
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>>78224955

>those tabs
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>>78224961
It gets worse.
>>
>>78224987
Shit feels bad, man.
>>
>>78222552
So in wrestling there is always a group of guys that are supposed to make the top guys look strong. These guys usually do not win matches often and are employed basically to lose matches. Their job is to lose matches. So when they go into a match that they are going to lose they say they are doing the job. Hence the term jobbers.
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>>78225120
>>
>>78225044
here's the ginyu force on king kai's planet, I don't remember how they got there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw5u1F3UquM

and I was remembering something else, apparently Cell was the one doing the jailbreak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiXxNbGGI4c
>>
>>78225036

Well said, Anon.
>>
>>78222552
He was stronger than the saibaman who killed him and its pretty dumb that he had as much trouble as he did with the Invisible Man. Can't superhuman wolf guy hear his footsteps or something?

Mystical Adventure Yamcha lost against fucking Bora.

Yamcha was the go to guy whenever Toei or Toriyama wanted show the viewer how awesome someone else was. So the rest were unlucky matchups, like Yamcha vs Roshi and Yamcha vs god.

>>78222306
>The only people who like him are self-inserting cucks
>cucks

This is what people who only watch DBZ think. This happened because his playboy-cheater status caused Bulma to dump him, which in itself was retconned bs.
>>
>>78222505
Never thought of him as a jobber, more like an asshole that constantly gets shit on like master shake
>>
>>78223964
>>78224010
It's still an /a/ meme
>>
>>78225302
And a /tv/ and /lit/ /asp/ and /co/ idea/trope/meme that recurs in all their different kinds of fiction.

Your point, Mr Backseat Mod?
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>>78223866
>>
>>78222109

Everyone in Bleach who isn't Ichigo or Kenpachi.
>>
>>78222337
Peridot was a goddamn midget technician with some gadgets. The fact that she survived for more than forty seconds is her real accomplishment; the show never made her out to be a badass in a fight.
>>
>>78222505

He was a plot device to make Hinata look more sympathetic
>>
>>78224423
seeing a one sided curbstomp turn into a different one sided curbstomp gets real old, real fast
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>>78225027
At least he had a great win against a strong as fuck opponent(Polar Man) in Kinnikuman resurrection.
>>
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>>78224529

Krillin was still fairly useful in Dragonball Z for a human character.

He was arguably the smartest fighter in the show and always used his cunning to pull shit off despite being outmatched.

>>78224586

Krillin did a lot of useful and effective stuff in Dragonball. He helped Yamcha win in the Fortuneteller Baba Saga, he beat Chiaotzu, he stood up to Tambourine.

And in Dragonball Z, he used Goku's spirit bomb for him, held off any and all bad guys until Goku or Vegeta were charged up enough to fuck them up and held up better than any other human character.

Krillin 100% best boy.
>>
>>78222505
It'd be stupid if you thought he was a jobber; since to be a jobber you need to be built up, and then you need to lose to establish a some new guy or something.

People never really get this or why Neji doesn't apply, but its simple, the guy never seriously lost outside of fighting Naruto.

The only thing about him is that he became fully irrelevant, but he's never lost to really establish some guy in a serious way. He was noted to be a badass, and then a few chapters later he just faded away, despite being a badass.

He's fought like three guys ever, and won against all except Naruto.
>>
>>78227620
Krillin was an OG Roshi-student after all.
>>
>>78227620
I'm not saying he's better/stronger but Tien ended up looking like a stone cold badass in the Buu saga, dancing around Buus genocide lasers or whatever it was called, and having a solid 20 seconds of being useful by deflecting an attack.

Krillin and Tien do humans a great service in a series full of overpowered madness
>>
>>78227811
Yo for real out of the original genin and shit only like Shikamaru's squad was ever relevant after the timeskip really.
>>
>>78227620
Don't forget the best attack ever
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>>78228241

And the universe rewarded them each with a hot blonde waifu for their efforts.
>>
>>
>>78225120
i think the buu saga made it pretty clear dragonball after either frieza or cell was a mistake
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He did always end up fighting people wwaaayyy above a lot of people's level(if Ichigo had ran into Kyouraku in the SS arc he would've lost too). But he's a real bro and he had cool powers/attacks. La Muerte is legit badass.
>>
>>78228294
I still try to create a disc like that from my hand and try to throw it at the people i hate :'(
>>
>>78228405
>not Genos
>not everyone exept Saitama
Also /a/
>>
>>78228660
90% of this thread is /a/.
>>
>>78228622
That's pathetic.
>>
>>78224083
ha
>>
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TheWorfEffect/ComicBooks

You know guys there's a handy little website that has all these options, even categorized for you to look up!

Isn't that wonderful?
>>
>>78228294
If Krillon combined the destructo disc with Guldo's timestop, he would be unstoppable.
>>
Krillan's a great jobber and the entire Frieza Saga and Nappa/Vegeta fights proves it. He stuck around long enough to fuck up Vegeta's back and had Krillan not gone to Namek things would have ended much differently because Gohan sure as hell wasn't reliable in a fight.
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>>78228565
Agreed

This guys fucking way to shit to be a captain aswell, he seems to be the only one who needs to rely on his Bankai gets his ass handed to him in it all the time
>>
>>78229753
>nearly gets skewered by Guldo, distracting him long enough for Vegeta to kill him
>kicks Recoome, saving Vegeta and buying Goku the time he needs to show up
>gets stabbed, freaking Gohan the fuck out enough to momentarily take down Freeza
>dies, Super Saiyan time

Krillin a best. He knows his constant stream of sacrifices will be what helps better fighters save the day

Unlike Yamcha

>no fucks given when the Saibaman blew him up
>no fucks given when Dr Gero impaled him
>>
>>78229679
Not really. Cell was able to tank a Destructo Disc to the neck
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>>78224186
>hating Krillen
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Nearly every single adult in this franchise.
>>
>>78222306
But he always fought really strong people. First he fights Master Roshi whom goes on to win the tournament and then he fights Tien(in a very entertaining battle) and he ends up winning the tournament(said what you will about how the fight ended, he was very nearly Goku's equal)
He had cool attacks, that wolf fist shit was far more unique than what a lot of people had in their arsenal. Bad writing aside, the concept of the character was good.
>>
>>78225280
>This is what people who only watch DBZ think. This happened because his playboy-cheater status caused Bulma to dump him, which in itself was retconned bs.


The worst part is that Toriyama can't decide on whether he's a cheater or if he's still scared of girls. One of which is never shown, only implied(by Bulma's word, who is known to be the jealous type. Even her own mom pointed out she was just jealous Yamcha got attention from other girls), and the other stops being a plotpoint after the first arc. So simultaneously he can't commit while also being a 50 year old man who gets fired from host clubs for being too shy around girls.
>>
>>78228405
How is he a jobber? The guy is a normal human in a world of super powered monsters, the fact that he is not dead yet is amazing.
>>
>>78233189
>Kicking the shit out of the lead bad guy
>Still holding his own three vs one
>only looses because of sniper
>jobbing
>>
>>78223278
Woah woah, do they really have thor level powers? Because in anything i have ever read or seen with them they never implied that.
>>
>>78223312
>even the cat hates him
this is fucking evil
>>
I've had a sort of idea for a Dragon ball slice of life story with Krillin and Yamcha. basically with most of their friends focussed on training while they retired and are living relatively normal life. They talk about how weird it is to attempt a regular life considering all their weird circumstances(being dead for a while, traveling to another planet space, etc), and the strange feeling of drifting apart from some of their closest friends, especially Goku(with Krillin feeling somewhat hurt that due to his nature Goku spends more time with Vegeta, and seems to be closer to him that Krillin ever was). And of course, more down to earth problems like Krillin being somewhat envious of Yamcha's freewheeling lifestyle and Yamcha regretting his inability to commit and take life seriously when he sees Krillin's happy family life.
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>>78222109
i never got this mad at a cartoon
>>
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>>78224537
>green Piccolo
>>
>>78233899
He and Guy become the best characters, they even follow the morale of the manga more then Naruto. MC preaches that you don't need to be born with talent to be good and lives by that, turns out he was ninja Jesus and what he was born with is what made him special.
>>
>>78233899
How is Rock Lee a jobber? He was legitimately outclassed by everyone he lost too
>>
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>>78224955
>this entire pic
KEK
>>78234442
because Guy and him actually looked capable of beating their opponent at one point but it was just to show off the vilains Jesus would then defeat
>>78234118
this.fuck this shitty HxH rip-off.the best characters barely do anything.
>>
>>78224258
Funny enough, it's usually "Thor gets beat up and you wonder what that means for Hawkeye and Captain America". Granted, that's now how Dragon Ball does it, but this tends to happen elsewhere.
>>
>>78224338
I dunno. Those people who are always "I just know we're gonna lose!" are usually fucking downers in real life. Yamcha has an alpha attitude and that's all that matters. That's why Vegeta's having his sloppy seconds and he's probably off fucking some hotter broad
>>
>>78233447
Not too sure, I do think they have at least some Asgard powers/artifacts or somesuch. Probably should check to sure and precise.

Not sure if that would make them on Thor's level, though.
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He jobbed all the time back in the day and writers would for some reason have people no sell his attacks even though it was pointless. Then of course there is the black panther thing.
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>>78234540
>>78234118
One of the best scenes from the latter parts of the manga if not the whole thing.
>>
>>78234855
Yamcha is the greatest baseball player ever in-universe and rolling in dough
>>
>>78222109
I really wanted Yamcha to push Vegeta's shit in so bad at some point. What happened to him is completely fucking unfair.
>>
>>78228482
I want the "buu sag sucks" Meme to die
>>
>>78227811
Who was sort of built up with that Hinata fight.
>>
>>78224099
The hell is going on here?
>>
>>78222109
Can we really say Yamcha jobs? He's had the least amount of training out of the Z fighters.
>>
>>78235183
I was so surprised when they gave him a fight with Madara and he actually did some damage.
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He was jobbed so fucking hard. He was like the biggest antagonist in the first series and he fell from grace so fucking hard.

I bet he's also not getting love in DB Super.
>>
>>78235241
Honestly he's probably better off. Bulma was absolutely horrible to him most of the time, to the point where everyone from Bulma's mother to Oolong commented about how cruel she is.

that said, I do have an idea for a comic where he deflowers a teenage Bulla(or rather teenage Bulla makes him deflower her).
>>
>>78233518
Too bad most of the characters are pretty one dimensional
>>
>>78224083
Marvel can't decide if he's supposed to be literally Superman-tier, or just some punchy flying dude that's sun powered, right?
>>
Wolverine, Ironhide, can't think of any others off the top of my head. At least try to keep it /co/ related, weebs.
>>
>>78224099
>>78235382

Darkseid fell over.

Though it's from an arc where Darkseid loses his mojo and is trying to get it back. Superman helps for some reason I can't remember. Also there's a whore that Batman almost fucks because her power is to be super horny. COMICS.
>>
>>78235470
He doesn't even get to have a chance to rest on his laurels as Goku's strongest antagonist for long. immediately after, King Piccolo(and Piccolo Jr.) outshines him.

The sad thing is that Roshi wanted him as his successor,and we never saw anything come of that.
>>
>>78231275
In the manga he dodged it instead of tanking it, the anime team fucked that up.
>>
>>78234533
Thank you so fucking much. Legacy of Jobbing with one of the most climactic upsets in comic history.
>>
>ctrl+f
>no Hercule

U wot
>>
>>78224935
That's a troll
>>
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>>78224537
>green piccolo
>>
>>78225120
>>78224940

Why is this bad exactly? Gohan never wanted to be his dad, despite Toriyama trying to push the series in that direction. He was meant to study, get good grades, and get a good job, unlike his dead beat retard of a dad. So he did, and consequently due to lack of training he's not as strong as he once was.

He's not being shat on for jobbing sake, he literally has an in story reason as to why he's not as strong as he used to be.
>>
>>78228405
Are you literally retarded? Or can you just not read the OP?
>>
>>78235659
>Savior of Earth
>A jobber
>>
>>78235714
Chichi go to bed.
>>
>>78233447

I thought their strength was in the Class 20-50 range - decent bricks but not exactly what I would call Thor level.

I do recall Wrecker's crowbar had some mystical enchantments that at least pushed Wrecker a little up the charts. And IIRC the crowbar absorbed the power of the entire team and placed it back into Wrecker (and Thunderball, another time) which *did* push the x4-powered user up into Thor's strength class.

Individually, they are cannon fodder.
>>
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>>78224537
>green piccolo
>>
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Waste of characters.
>>
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>>78235985

an earlier handbook listed him at 40 tons, or 10 tons when his power is split between the wrecking crew. dunno if that holds true now, i kinda suspect writers forgot about the power division bit and they're each class 40-50 bricks now.
>>
>>78236131
That's the problem when you have every character on the team be a badass warrior-type. There usually aren't enough villains for each of them to get a fight scene with, so one or more of the good guys is going to do essentially nothing. Same problem as Dragon Ball Z.
>>
>>78224935
To be fair if you do include Filler, then you have to recognize Yamcha as having an incredibly high power level due to his fight in the otherworld tournament training.

If I recall..

Goku at that time is evenly matched to Pikkon, an incredibly powerful warrior.
Pikkon destroys Perfect Cell, Frieza and King Cold without a moment of effort.
Pikkon is evenly matched against Olibu, but manages to beat him in a tough fight.
Yamcha utterly trounces Olibu without effort, and another otherworld figher Gorilla, at the same time.

Thus, Yamcha manages to beat an opponent with zero effort, who would be a challenge for Pikkon, who beat Cell, Frieza and Cold with zero effort. Any other Non-Saiyan able to match this level of power?
>>
>>78235498

in the manga it was canon that he deflowered her and that the reason Bulma abandoned him was that after losing his crippling fear of women he became a player
>>
>>78236399
That was filler.
>>
>>78236675
2/10 Reading comprehension, see me after class.

"Yeah if you're going to include filler, don't forget the filler episode where X happens!"
"Dude, that's filler."
>>
>>78236675
Thank you captain obvious.
>>
>>78223278
Remember that time Benis had them killed by the Punisher?
>>
Do you have enough swords at your disposal, King of Jobbers?
>>
>>78235587
Wait, how did he lose his powers/mojo/whatever and NOT get immediately usurped by someone like DeSaad, or Granny Goodness, or Vermin Vunderbarr?
>>
>>78238064
God i'm still mad

I started with Fate/Zero then went to UBW

i had no idea it was coming.
>>
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>>78224537

>space han solo
>>
>>78238162
To be fair, it made sense as a fight. Compare his fight with Shirou to his fight with Rider.

Shirou:
-Unlimited Blade Works completely negates Gate of Babylon.
-Gil fought with no armor
-Gil went easy on him for nearly the entire fight
-Gil never drew Ea until it was too late.
-Result: Shirou still only wins because Archer and the Grail intervenes.

Rider:
-Wear armor
-Go all out immediatly
-Use Ea
-Enkidu and Ea are perfect counters for Iskandar's divinity and Ionioi Hetairoi
>>
>>78236131
I want to deflower Tigress.
>>
>>78222739
Galactus really is the Kane of the Marvel world.

Was a threat, got punked, and is now just the go to 'oh my, what a big scary threat'; man, until he does one thing awesome and is legitimately a big scary threat again.
>>
I thought I was in /a/ for a second with all the animu in here
>>
>>78239412
In all fairness, Anime is superior to Cartoons.
>>
>>78239510

In all fairness, Anime has the worst tropes I've ever seen in any work of fiction
>>
Let's save some time

>80% of Shonen manga characters that are not the main protagonist
>>
>>78230900
Didn't Yamcha's death make Krillin lose shit and he killed the rest of the saibamen?
>>
>>78239535
you wanna see some terrible tropes, check out bodice ripper novels
>>
>>78239895
One was still alive.
>>
>>78222753
>super genius and heir of Multi-Million dollar company
>Having unprotected sex with hillbilly or with Alpha Male Genocide Prince who came from the stars
>>
>>78234855
Well krillin is more Alpha than Yamcha, the fucker went for the girl that could destroy a City with the Flick of her wrist. HECK he even wasted divine power just to fix her pootang
>>
>>78224537
>>green piccolo

Also waiting for that MM vs Piccolo fight in Death Battle, MM doesn't have eye lasers does he?
>>
If Piccolo merged with some more Namekians, maybe he'd stop sucking.
>>
>>78223424
>is shown to be a major threat to the MC
>is instantly K.O'd to establish new threat as being powerful

I dunno anon, that sounds like jobbing to me
>>
>>78240442
He already merged with the only two worth merging with
>>
Considering all of their adventures and time spent training and fighting, it would be nice if Tien, Krillin, Yamcha and Chiaotzu could actually take out a serious threat using teamwork, instead of stalling until the nearest Saiyan arrives.

Could you imagine if Goku was trying to get there to save the day, and by the time he arrives, his friends are all standing around, bloody and grinning with the villain's body slung over one of their shoulders?
>>
What would happen if Frieza had trained for a year?
>>
>>78224529
>Oh no, this guy smells so bad! I can't fight!
>but Krillin, you don't have a nose!
>Oh yeah

Still makes me laugh
>>
>>78240525
He would have learned to maintain his golden form longer. Geets still would have won imo.
>>
>>78240501
This would be the greatest thing that will never come out of Super
>>
>>78222109
The Joker. Big ol' jobber to the stars, that one.
>>
>>78225862
Kenpachi job'd to that fake Sternritter commander

>Omg kenpachi killed 3 of their top men!
>Oh no the commander took out kenpachi with ease!
>Wait that wasn't the commander, it was some dude who's only power was to shapeshift

Then how the fuck did he beat kenpachi with ease. God, Bleach, I wish I could quit you.
>>
Not animation even, but the Rival in the Pokemon games, specifically Blue. You could never progress without beating him and that means cannonically, you never lose once to him. He shittalks every opportunity and ends up as Elite 4 champion, but in the end he still never accumulates a single win on you, despite the type advantage. And he fucking calls himself your rival?
>>
>>78240525
he would have learned to achieve the gold form of Cooler's final stage of transformation, and not burned through his energy so fast. He would have forced them to fuse into SSGSS Gogeta to win.
>>
>>78227811
He jobbed because he died. He died in the most ironic scummy way possible. He died actually upholding everything he was trying not to become. It was truly a shit death.
>>
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Rock lee
>>
>>78222109
There was one Yamcha fight that pissed me off, when he fought the Mummyman.

>Whole episode is Yamcha struggling against his opponent
>Despite the Mummyman being stronger than him Yamcha manages to hold out with his willpower and endurance
>Eventually gets fucked up too much to continue
>Next episode
>Goku beats Mummyman in under a minute, and it's never talked about again

I love DB, but the Fortuneteller Baba Saga was awful.
>>
>>78234533
This so much
>>
>>78235714

Chichi plz
>>
>>78238257
Is essence, Shirou's biggest advantage was that Gilgamesh didn't respect him.
>>
>>78240470
There's a Dragonball rpg where you can get Piccolo to Namek alive and then go around and have him merge with every other namekian you can find for a big power boost, Cell style.
>>
>>78233899

I legit stopped watching this a little after this fight.

Everyone in Naruto is so cookie cutter, but Rock Lee was at least a fun character to watch. When he lost this fight, I lost the little interest I had.

And thank fuck too, because the fanbase is so fucking shit.
>>
>>78235659

How can someone that beat Cell be a jobber?
>>
>>78235659
Hercule is practically the opposite of a jobber. He's a guy who's continually acknowledged as having the combat power of a wet fart, yet he survived the whole series without dying once and saved the entire planet at least twice.
>>
>ctrl+f "juggernaut" not found
>>
>>78233899
By far the best fight of the entire series. Him and Guy always had the best fight scenes.
>>
>>78222109
Calling it.
>>
>>78235183
Has this been animated yet?
>>
>>78242173
Juggernaut varies. When he's a bad guy, he wipes his ass with a whole team. When he's a good guy, he gets flattened by the Wrecking Crew.
>>
>>78241976
Thats always been Gil's biggest weakness. He would be literally unstoppable, but even in his final moments he didnt give his enemies the respect they deserved and died becasue of it.
His hubris has always been his downfall.
>>
[ELECTRIC SHAMISEN INTENSIFIES]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5Ka0WFqftA
>>
>>78235536
Yeah. Sometimes he's better at molecular manipulation than Molecule Man. Other times, Hercules can hold him off with nothing but pankration moves and some improvisation.
>>
>>78242186
Being a jobber does not preclude you from being a good performer. You can't keep the other guy strong if you look like a turd out there.
>>
>>78233899
>Born weaker than everyone else
>Constantly picked on for it
>Work harder than anyone else on the planet, practically killing yourself daily as a little kid
>Become the first person to actually land a hit on the baddest dude around
>Get crippled
>Some asshole born with special powers has already mastered and improved on your unique technique a few days later
That was absolutely depressing.
>>
>>78242054
I think this is the exact moment the whole thing goes to shit. Coupled with Naruto literally getting his shit kicked in by Neji for an entire fight and then beating him in one single punch. So disappointing the writer stuck to the bullshit Shonen tropes.
>>
>>78242139
Okay I never understood that. Is Hercule actually as shit as possible or is he actually an extremely good fighter, as good as one can be without Ki.

I always assumed he was at an MMA tier in his prime.
>>
>>78242054
You didn't miss much. You think this is bad? Eventually all of the Rookie 9 other than Naruto were turned to shit. Lee and everyone else drops off the face of the Earth (hope you like Sasuke).

Sasuke Retrieval was the last hurrah for almost all of the cast. Kishi focused on the three most irritating characters.
>>
>>78242348
Hercule is, excluding those trained in Ki, cyborgs, or monsters, legit the best fighter on the planet.
>>
>>78242348
By all accounts, Hercule's skill at mundane martial arts is at worst decent and at best excellent. Most powerlevel listings have him in the 100-200 range. Also, keep in mind, the dude got his fame by winning the World Martial Arts Tournament, which you don't do by being a weakling. The few times we do see him fight other martial artists, he more than holds his own.

The problem is that he's outclassed by pretty much any ki user, alien, cyborg, monster, or god, which comprises almost the entire cast.
>>
>>78235470
Tien was probably the best character in DB, and he got fucked over so badly.

>Abused as a child
>Becomes a bitter opponent with a shimmer of good in him
>Eventually realizes that he is in the wrong, works hard to redeem himself
>Has a special bond with Roshi to the point that Roshi sees him as possibly his successor
>Fights tooth and nail to assist in fighting King Piccolo, and has a goat fight in an attempt to win
>Gets a lot of focus in his training, and is shown to work the hardest
>Pioneers some of the most used techniques
>Gets to finally fight Tao, the man who abused him, and shows how much Tien has grown

Now cut to DBZ
>No focus at all
>Launch is gone
>Dies easily and is unimportant for all of Saiyan and Frieza Sagas
>Does one good thing in Cell and goes back into the background
>Has one moment in Buu that basically becomes worthless

>Has a better redemption arc than Piccolo and Vegeta, but is left in the dust
>>
>>78242459
Okay, that's what I thought.

Basically Hercule in his prime could fuck up Mike Tyson.
>>
>>78235714
Goddammit Chichi.
>>
>>78242488
Being fair, him holding down Cell was one of the most badass things I'd ever seen.
>>
>>78242495
Yup. It's just that when pretty much any character of importance can flick Mike Tyson into space, that's an accolade on par with being able to rub your stomach and pat your head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV6dZRJ7xZ4
>>
>>78240133
>using world-altering power of eternal dragon in order to make his waifu real
>alpha

kek
>>
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>>78225099
>>
>>78225036
>I showed you it was.
No you didn't.

You cited fanfiction
>>
>>78222109
A jobber is a loser in wrestling, not necessarily a badass. Jobbers aren't there to be tough, they're there to take a lot of abuse to show how cool the actual star wrestler is like the one-time indy scrubs they were feeding to Ryback for a while and the guys who looked like high school science teachers that Yokozuna would sit on. A jobber to the stars is a jobber who beats other jobbers like Koko B. Ware and Bray Wyatt.
>>
My favorite jobber is Han Solo.
>>
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>all the narutards ITT
Naruto is a gateway anime of the worst kind. It's a bad series, a clusterfuck of story and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive shipping faggotry and DARKNESS. The normal anon can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the series itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.

However, these very aspects that try to smear over the shit of its core make it a breeding ground for aspie, unsociable underageb& faggots who engage in every kind of faggotry both online and in the real world. The superpowered characters all trying their hardest to look cool, the jutsus, peculiar, colorful clothes, the whole ninja faggotry and everything about the Naruto world fuels their escapist fantasies, while the pity-party character backgrounds, emphasis on revenge, and overall preachiness of the series make it fit just right with the mary-sueish drives of your average preteen and his sense of unwarranted self-importance towards the world. Exactly the kind of shit that makes little kiddies and underageb& retards eat this shit right the fuck up.

Naruto is basically THE series to attract the most hated anime fanbase known to /a/, which is why, regardless of individual opinions, it is the responsibility of every anon to troll the fuck out of this show and everyone who likes it, and ensure that no Naruto threads ever encourage the newfriends to show their faces here.
>>
>>78242488
Don't forget that he has a technique that was supposed so powerful that you need part of your life force to use it but end up being less powerful than a Kamehameha.
>>
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>>78242814
>>
>>78242848
>replying to ancient copypasta

Is there a greater example that all name/tripfags should hang themselves?
>>
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>>78242814
Yea yea yea, we know we know.


Anyway, Neji was pretty jobbed. He whipped Hinatos ass and was built up to be this big bad ass, then gets curb stomped by Naruto.
>>
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>>78242889
>>
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>>78242904
>>
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>>78242938
>>
Friendly reminder that Krillin flat out killed Cell in at least one timeline
Krillin is fucking OP
>>
>>78242991
Multiverse is dumb and not canon, you realize?
>>
>>78242814
Eh it's an anime. You watch it and enjoy it and then move on with your life.
>>
>>78223580
But that's not exactly what "The Worf Effect" or other variations of Worfism are. There's a specific setup to The Worf Effect
>>
>>78243002
He means the Cell of the main timeline, whom Krillin aborted.
>>
>>78235714
Because Gohan is STILL set up to be the STRONGEST SAIYAN WARRIOR WITH THE MOST POTENTIAL EVER YEAH
Hell, in the manga Goku asks Beerus who should be in the super mega ultra fight and fucking Vegeta has to stand up for Gohan, he's become that much of a joke
>>
>>78243068
>Goku suggested Piccolo over Gohan
I laughed, personally
>>
>>78239510
Really anon? you must be that faggot.
>>
>>78241811
Rock Lee isn't a jobber though. It's fully established that he has no chance at winning, but fucks himself up constantly in pursuit of success because that's who he is.

The one time Rock Lee came close to jobbing he actually beat both Sasuke and Gaara. In fact he kicked Gaara's face in so fucking hard he nearly triggered Shikaku and got everyone killed.

That said, I don't know or care about Shippuuden. OG Rock Lee was fucking incredible.
>>
>>78242360
Sasuke Retrieval fell apart due to Neji's fight NEVER FUCKING ENDING
Chouji's fight was hype as shit though, rewatched it a few months ago out of boredom and came away yelling
>>
>>78242488
KiKoHo against Cell gives me fucking shivers dude
>>
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Aside from DB why are you guys posting anime in /co/?
Remember the rules?
>>
>>78235714
But why, is the question? If Gohan doesn't want to fight and he's too strong to be used, why not just keep him off to the side and only have him fight when he's gotten pushed to the brink and then open a can of whoopass? Wasn't the whole point of the Mystic powerup that he didn't need to train anymore and this was him at his absolute peak due to magic?

As is, all it does is set him up to do the "oh no Gohan hasn't trained and isn't the strongest anymore, now he has to train again" plotline that the series already friggin' did in the Buu saga. You could argue that Gohan losing his power makes sense, but either way, it's still goddamn sloppy writing and it offers only something we've seen before but not as good.
>>
>>78243184
Dude, magical powerups mean literally nothing in Dragonball Z. Remember how everybody reached their peak potential on Namek and did nothing?
>>
>>78225120

That's pretty much slapping you in the face with "GOHAN IS GONNA TRAIN AGAIN AFTER THIS" isn't it?
>>
Who is the MAIN Jobber of Dragon Ball?

Yamcha? Krillin? Vegeta? Piccolo? Gohan? They've all taken turns in the jobbing game.
>>
>>78243448
Piccolo and Vegeta. They share it
Yamcha and Krillin were never jobbers because fuck they were never that big a deal compared to the main character
>>
>>78243086

Isn't Gohan like STILL 10 times stronger than Piccolo?
>>
>>78243515
Yeah, but that's only a relatively recent thing. Gohan, despite his infinite potential or whatever, lagged behind Piccolo a lot thanks to those fusions big green got
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY4LdYjNEg8
Ace jobbed himself so fucking hard,
>>
>>78222109
>>78222306


>Cuck

Vegeta got his sloppy seconds. If anything Yamcha's the alpha in that situation.

You niggas really do not know how to use words in their proper context
>>
>>78225023

The weird thing about Super is that when it's NOT rehashing the movies, it's actually pretty good. Like I quite liked the episodes before Beerus showed up and the stuff between the Battle of Gods saga and Freeza with like Krillin and Goku hanging out and stuff. But the movie saga's just feel drawn out and weird. It was a mistake to do those retellings.
>>
>>78243563
The return of Frieza has been remarkably different from the movie though
>>
>>78223209
shots fired
>>
>>78242214
Yes, but not to the quality it really deserved. Which is a damn shame because when you read it in the manga, it's a brutal fuckin fight.
>>
>>78243537
>still being attracted to the woman who left you, married and had a child with the man whose minions killed you

Keep telling yourself that you're alpha, Yamcha.
>>
>>78243068

So what is Gohan just being left out of the next saga entirely?
>>
>>78238542
Not even that. I think only 7 months passed between his appearance in Jason Aaron's Thor and his cameo in Squirrel Girl. And chances are a comparably short amount of time will elapse between that fight in Secret Wars people seemed so hyped about and something like a one-panel shout out in a Deadpool title.
>>
>>78242566

True, but he deserved to be a major player in Cell.
>>
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>>78242488
>>No focus at all
>>Launch is gone
>>Dies easily and is unimportant for all of Saiyan and Frieza Sagas
>>Does one good thing in Cell and goes back into the background
>>Has one moment in Buu that basically becomes worthless
You just defined all of Dragonball. What happened to Nam? How about Upa and his dad? What about my main manbot, Android 8? Baba? How did Goku die and not even THINK of going to visit Grandpa Gohan? It's like a completely separate series, and they just have similar looking main characters.

No mention of Upa and the absence of G. Gohan really, REALLY upsets me. May as well throw all of DB in the trash Toriyama, clearly none of that shit about caring for his friends and family matters to Goku.
>>
Only one that comes to mind at the moment is Darkseid. Too bad since I'm not much of a fan of Mr. tourture and demean. Last episode of Justice League Unlimited pissed me off, though. Seriously? All of Apocalypse is attacking, it's implied they beat New Genesis and they didn't bring Amazo back for that?
>>
>>78225027
could have been worse

he could have been like Wolfman, Canadianman or Specialman
>>
>>78222109
Jack Spicer
i think he had a few moments when he was competent
>>
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>>78224537
>Green Piccolo
>>
>>78229440
They're gonna team up, I'm calling it.
>>
>>78224083
Yeah, even once he gets back even more powerful an crazy than the last time, he gets this:
>>
>>78234855
>>78235221
Yamcha quit on being a fighter because he knew he was shit.
>>
>>78239412
Don't report because you think the mods will do something, do it as a
>Fuck you
to them, because they hate getting more than the usual amount of reports
>>
>>78238064
Kek
>>
>>78222109
Grievous in the 3rd movie.
After watching the clone wars it's just painful to see.
>>
>>78225862
Kenpachi is such a jobber though.

He jobbed when the current badguys first invaded the soul society

He jobbed his last fight so that scientist fucker could look good. Even though that was his first fight after apparently getting his powers from killing the healer lady and actually unlocking his sword.
>>
>>78246770
Apparently Lucas always planned for him to be a cowardly weakling. Even though what Clone wars did was much cooler, it wasn't the original plan.

Though they did give an explanation for it in part 2 of the miniseries when Windu basically force crushes Grievous's chest
>>
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>>78244149
True, but Canadianman and Specialman were minor characters, and Wolfman was pretty much the least important of the "main" group. For Warsman, he was built up to be super skilled and threatening, which he was until after his fight with Kinnikuman, then he mostly gets treated like a chump
>>
>tfw they reintroduce Steph exclusively to have her job all the time and make Barbara look cool
>>
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>>78233447
Every time they show up, someone mentions how powerful they are. Page related.

(This is one of the few appearances where they don't job, either.)
>>
>>78242173
>>78242219
He jobbed to Onslaught very effectively. When the X-Men found him beaten they knew they were up against something extremely nasty.
>>
>>78247040
Well at least it's not Cass
>>
>>78246947
fair point

even Brocken gets treated less badly
>>
>>78223209
Only in the JL cartoons
>>
>>78228482
Cell was a mistake as well tee bee aich.
>>
>>78247040
Don't worry, she'll be back to beating up robins and full grown men in no time.
>>
>>78248683
I'd say the saiyans were a mistake

DragonBall had a very satisfying conclusion after the 23rd world tournament arc, and the saiyan arc, while keeping thematically with the previous two arcs, kind of fucked the setting over and persisted the problem of the king piccolo arc of rediculous escalation.

Not to say it was all bad, it just would have been the best place for it to end before it started to fall apart
>>
>>78239510
Here we go again
>>
>>78243448
>Vegta got fucking robbed in Battle of the Gods
Fuck
>>
>>78250769
I'd say he got robbed more in RoF. He deserved to get the kill on Frieza
>>
>>78223312
He's a pretty top tier Jobber
But Superman was also a jobber in JL as well
>>
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>>78224940
I actually liked Gohan
>>
>>78250889
This, Goku could have just warned him or did the SFII animated movie thing where they both did their beams at the same time
>>
>>78234533
My sides
>>
>>78242814
Nice pasta
>>
>>78241623
He's always waiting ahead on the road for you, because you're the only person who can challenge him. He gets just as far as you do in the league, but he always does it faster and he knows eventually you'll catch up to him.

You always catch up to him.
>>
>>78243114
Rock Lee did not beat Gaara, he left that fight a cripple.
>>
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>tfw just got back from seeing the new star wars

I know I'm not the only one.
>>
>>78240133
>girl
she's a robot
>>
>>78253010

No, she's a cyborg, you casual.
>>
>>78242566
filler though
>>
Yamcha is great. The usual archetype dictates for him to be sore and turn jelly and into bad guy, but even though he clearly is weak compare to Goku and other guys, he still tries his best and is great friend.

I am watching DB for the first time btw. I am at EP 93
>>
>>78243114
Lee won neither of those fights. He's about to beat Sasuke when the fight is stopped, and he just flat out lost to Gaara. He very nearly won, but he closes his eyes out of pain for a split second while he's using his ultimate attack and Gaara switches out for a sand clone when he does. I don't think Lee won a single fight pretimeskip.

Which makes it all the more badass when they're fighting Madara. The single most powerful ninja who ever lived. With the powers of all the tailed beasts, plus the 10 tailed beast more powerful than the rest combined. The dude that fucking nobody can touch.

And Lee kicks him in half.

Literally bisects him with one kick.

Awesome.
>>
>>78242255
the latter is literally a comedy book.

That is the difference. You are just too autistic.
>>
>>78225120
>>78243068
What about Goten? Isn't he by logic destined to be even greater warrior than Gohan? And he promised dad not to slack off. Even though Trunks was working his ass off with Vegeta and is a year older and before 24th Tournament Trunks admitted Goten is almost equal to him.
>>
>>78225862
Oh man, fucking Kenpachi. Spent literally the entire series hyping him up, getting ready to see some real shit when he gets his shikai. Then after spending like 10 chapters getting killed by Captain Mom over and over, he finally unlocks his true, ultimate power.

And then he gets one shot immediately so that Ichigo can save the day at the end of the chapter. His entire existence was a setup to job that fight. Fucking Kubo, man.
>>
>>78253365
That was the second time he showed up after his power up. The first one was that guy with reality warping powers that could make anything happen by thinking it. And that basically went

>I summon a planet sized boulder
>I'M GONNA CUT IT

>Well, I summon the concept of nothingness
>I'M GONNA CUT IT

>Well, I'll just imagine myself being as strong as you
And then the guy exploded for some reason because he couldn't comprehend how powerful Kenpachi was.
>>
>>78253287

Goten is a ticking time bomb destined to be one of the strongest fighters in the galaxy. He also hates his father so that's a plus.
>>
>>78242261
That pissed me off when Sasuke could mimic Lee's stance in such a short time.
>>
>>78253805
>Goten
>hates his father
lolwhat
>>
>>78243140
You can literally forget Kiba's role in that arc so easily.
>>
>>78235183
>Spend the whole series talking about how once you open the tenth gate, that's it, you're dead
>Naruto shows up, touches Gai and completely heals him with his wizard powers
YOU CAN'T FUCKING RESTRICT A CHARACTER WITH SEVERE CONSEQUENCES LIKE THAT IF YOU'RE JUST GOING TO IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES WITH YOUR SHITTY WIZARD POWERS
>>
>>78253287
>And he promised dad not to slack off.

But we know that he does. He doesn't take training seriously and never attempted to really improve himself while a child. When he's an older teen, he's more into girls than martial arts.
>>
>>78233447
Not really. Wrecker with the full power of the crowbar took on a powered down Thor and won, but he decided he'd rather split the power with his bros instead.
>>
>>78253834
But his ultimate technique was pissing in the enemy's face. How cool is that?
>>
How can jobbers be defined?

Because obviously there are jobber characters in relation to the audience and there are jobber characters in relation to the people in the setting.

I would say Saitama is the ultimate in setting jobber.

>Kills lobster monster and saves a child who's the son of rich businessman, who goes on to form the hero association, doesn't get any credit.

>Kills all the monsters when King just so happens to be nearby, doesn't get credit and the Hero Associate unanimously gives King the title the strongest man on earth.

>Kills the deepsea king and tells everyone that the only reason why he was able to kill him was because all the heroes that were defeated, weakened it enough for him to steal all the credit to allow all the wounded heroes to save face, despite the fact that none of the other heroes managed to even slow the deepsea King down.

>Kills Asura Rhino and ends the House of evolution's grand scheme to wipe out humanity and replace them with genetically engineered super furries, Genos gets all the credit as Hero association intel records Genos flattening the worthless House of evolution building, while the the actual basement where the true headquarters resided remained.

>Kills the Boros and his space shit, Tornado of terror and other S class heroes get all the credit

>Smashes apart a meteor, tanktop blackhole and tiger decides to discredit and hero crush him for producing all the resulting property damage, credit for the meteor's description is given to genos and metal knight

>Break every Hero association physical record and climbs the rank at meteoric pace, because of his notorious reputation the public naturally assumes he cheated his way to the top
>>
>>78224935
I'm not even sure how to respond to this. In the filler arc with Pikkon he one-shots perfect cell. Then Goku fights him evenly in his base form. Directly after the cell saga. You can't be serious.
>>
>>78254108
When you lose a fight to make another person look strong, you're doing the job. When you do this an inordinate amount, as though you only exist to make others look stronger, you are a jobber.

For example, when Frieza got his shit bisected by Trunks he was jobbing to put the new guy over. But Frieza isn't a jobber because he didn't do that a lot.
>>
>>78254108

>How can jobbers be defined?

Characters I like losing
>>
>>78254108
>Because obviously there are jobber characters in relation to the audience and there are jobber characters in relation to the people in the setting.

Jesus, you are an idiot.
>>
>>78255011
Goku blew up and got a major power boost because of it.
>>
Sabrina in the Archie crossovers and Afterlife with Archie
>>
>>78255113
I don't think it counts if you actually die.
>>
>>78255178
How is she a jobber? Compared to the Riverdale gang who know bugger all about magic, she's a big fish, but she's nothing in the grand scheme of things.
>>
>>78222109
>A jobber is wrestling slang for a guy who's allegedly a badass but loses fights, generally to make the other guy look good.

So wouldn't that be every Dragon Ball character that isn't Goku?
>>
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>>78247956
you can say that again
>>
>>78233334
>looses
People need to learn how to spell.
You meant to type loses.
>>
>>78253034

Why do people not understand this?
>>
>>78235714
I guess I'd just prefer it if he became a sort of Anime General Sherman. He hates fighting, the only way to stop fighting is to be really fucking good at it, so he burns down Atlanta.
>>
>>78253550
Wow that is so retardedly hilarious I'm so glad I quit Bleach years ago
>>
>>78227620
>He was arguably the smartest fighter in the show and always used his cunning to pull shit off despite being outmatched.
Krillin's definitely smarter than most of the Z Fighters but Piccolo's very definitely smarter than him.
>>
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This is my favorite Jobber, period!
Thread posts: 335
Thread images: 69


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