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What went wrong with Flame Princess?

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Thread replies: 148
Thread images: 57

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This book handled her relationship with Finn in a way that was both cute to read through and didn't interfere with his adventuring ways.

Why couldn't the writers of the show make half the effort?
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>>78159332
they tried
but they werent rebecca sugar so they werent accustomed to the character
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>>78159332
It easier to make one comic than adjust the whole show to fit a new main character. Not excusing them but their hilariously bad fear of commitment made it impossible.

Also it seems they decided romance ruins your life and Finn needs to be scared away from it. Not even Jake and Lady get to have fun, it's all srs business with their stupid spawn.

why was the Finn thread deleted? i was tryna save pictures, fucking nazi mod.
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>>78160082
Because he has a shit taste in husbinos
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>>78160306
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>>78160306
mm
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>>78159332
Too many cooks.
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>>78160429
why is Finn drooling boogers
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>>78160586
eating neon green candy all day?
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>>78159332
we already had this thread
it died after a heartwarming comic
why post it again
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>>78160429
>>
This is still probably one of the best Adventure Time stories, show included.
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>>78160767
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>>78160937
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>>78159332
Storytime it
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>>78161566
>>78159332
I too would enjoy a storytime. I liked this one.
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>>78159332

I will always wonder this.

I thought she and their whole relationship was really cute. Much more fun than the fucking PB shit ever was, and more realistic.

But it feels like the writers just threw them in the trash. Why? The whole "heroes must be forever celibate" thing? Wanting to make the show a shitty animoo "will they or won't they" harem?

For whatever reason it fucking sucks.
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>>78161550
I like it when artists remember the hat is bear.
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>>78161674
>Much more fun than the fucking PB shit ever was, and more realistic13 year old PB and FInn adventures could have been fun, but I guess they didn't wanna go in that direction for whatever reasons.

>The whole "heroes must be forever celibate" thing?
It's their way of saying relationships don't always work out. But that's fucking shit.

>Wanting to make the show a shitty animoo "will they or won't they" harem?
Hey the kid have a harem back in the earlier seasons. All the princesses wanted to have him as their husbano.
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>>78161566
>>78161631
He just did last night man, go find the archived thread.
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>>78161946
found it
>>78147610
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>>78161674
>The whole "heroes must be forever celibate" thing?
Looks to me like they want him to wait to have sex until he's in a special grownup true love bond -- anything else is dirty and only makes you feel worse. For people obsessed with "realistic" relationships they can be real old fogeys. Or it just comes off that way by accident, Iunno.

All of this is very convenient for them because writing romance is hard.
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>>78162033
Nigga, I'm need some more pics like that.
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>>78162086
But people eat shit up like Frozen and Twilight like it's cake. How hard can it possibly be?
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>>78161566
give me a sec
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>>78162033
Thanks dude.
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>>78162137
We already have it in the archive anon no need to take up posts
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>>78162130
Bruh bravest warriors is crazy far after adventure time, if anything chris is finn's descendant.
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>>78162033
This picture's so cozy and warm feeling.
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>>78159332
It as Sugar's pet project. Without her direction they passed it over to Somvilay who proceeded to run it into the ground.

There's not much more to be said. AT's blessing and curse is that it's run with very little overarching direction or oversight, meaning that Boarders and writers have tremendous freedom on any given episode. The drawback of that is that there's not a lot of cohesion between the writing staff.
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>>78162717
Still, it's a nice "what if" scenario
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>>78165184
BOYS NEED CLOTHES TOO
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>>78165908
good clothes
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Well, first off, they made the mistake of introducing Flame Princess as a love interest first. There wasn't much to her character beyond "Finn is attracted to her", aside from being another quirky magical Ooo denizen.

To the writers' credit, she actually became a whole lot better as time went on. The first FP episode that I personally loved was Vault of Bones, because it actually showed her as an ADVENTURER, with a distinct approach that complemented Finn but wasn't identical to that of Jake.

She stayed pretty great from that point on, but they dropped the ball again by cutting her largely out of the show once the romance angle ended. Every time she's showed up since then, she's been great (particularly when it was her versus PB), but only as just another of Ooo's dime-a-dozen background weirdos.

They should have kept her as a more frequent recurring character like Marceline or Ice King. Sadly, In a long-running TV show, all must bow before the status quo, and I guess there just wasn't room for her in it.
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Would it be awkward if Finn got back with her
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>>78168160
Considering that they haven't even fucking talked to each other for like two years, a little bit yeah.
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>>78168202
or maybe it would be better because they've had time to move past what happened
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>>78166361
Her deal other than "Finn's girlfriend" was "possibly evil" and "severe anger issues"
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>>78169811
Not really, they have some issues to work out between themselves and just stagnating for years isn't a good way to resolve that shit at all.

For all his development it's not like Finn's feeling better about FP, in The Mountain he still said he feels weird about her.

They have to actually fucking talk to each other but if that ever happens again Finn will just try to get her to fight something again or something equally as dumb because the writers hate him.
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Xayaphone

It's all thanks to Xayaphone as to what happened when Sugar left
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>>78159737
But why the team even brought up flame princess in the first place? The writers should known audience craving more and more drama. The team should not introduce this shitstorm in the first place.
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>>78170881
They dumped her arc when they went the totally better option of having be a hormone obsessed teenager.

I wasn't fucking like this in my teens. I wasn't like this with any girl either. What gives?
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>>78170665
What good has he done for the show?
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>>78170991
His season 2 and 3 episodes were consistently funny, likely due to a mix of him actually giving a shit and having a good board partner.

Other than that he has made some other good or decent episodes but that's about it. In terms of the best stuff he's done that's probably Blade of Grass and uh, Everything's Jake I guess.
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>>78170976
Okay, now I really hope other cartoons not follow the same route. All I want is a cozy and funky break from reality, but those dramas always ruin the show for me.
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>>78166361
>Vault of Bones
I wish they could have had more episodes with that formula of her joining up on adventures. It's one of the few times they're allowed to develop their dynamic and it made for some cute funny moments.

>Finn: Like on a scale of 1 to 100, how good are you at quietly throwing a tiny bit of fire at a rope 50 feet away?
>Flame Princess: Uhh...
>Finn: Scale of 1 to 100.
>Flame Princess: 42...
>Finn: 42?!
>Flame Princess: Well, I don't know! I've never rated myself before...
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>>78171156
>there will never be another episode like this
>tfw Red Throne exists
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>>78171156
I remember watching this when it premiered. I remember looking forward to all the comfy FP/Finn adventures we were gonna get.
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>>78159332
Frost & Fire ruined the character and maybe the series. After that episode, FP only showed up to make PB or Finn act terrible or make Cinnamon Bun look good, as if anyone gives a shit about that retard.
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>>78171538
Those episodes are really some giant middle fingers to both the fans and the characters. Before, the plot could make neither the villain nor the protagonist acts terrible. But now? It is really sacrificing one character to the benefit of another. Just like Marceline's mini arc a month ago. We had a plenty of Marceline and PB, but we didn't have Finn and Jack, who were supposed to the protagonists of the series.
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>>78171328
>>78171512
Considering that they've brought up more episodes about Finn missing FP than they've had episodes of them actually being together makes me feel like they still want to resolve things in some way.

I doubt they'd get back together at this point though.
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>>78171328
IF YOU LOVE ME LET ME
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>>78171654
It is too late, anon. Any interaction is salt on wound. If CN want S7 to be the finale, then go ahead, I feel numb anyway.
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>>78159332
Sugar was spearheading the whole FP thing, but than she left to do Steven Universe. She did it because she wanted Finn to have a love interest he could actually have a relationship with, but apparently the other writers can't into relationships. They tried to break up Jake and lady before they got vetoed on that.
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>>78171938

Where are you getting this info?
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>>78171938
PB was an option too when she was 13 but it'd be too awkward I guess
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>>78171991
In an earlier thread.
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They wanted to go back to formula.
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>>78171538
>>78171591
I did some research. http://adventuretime.wikia.com/wiki/Luke_Pearson
this guy is the one responsible for the atrocity that is Frost and Fire.
In fact, all four episodes he's worked on are definitely in my "least favorite episodes" list.
Although "May I Come In?" wasn't terrible, it was probably the worst episode out of the Stakes saga.
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>>78172094
Damn, great job there anon. I agree, swapping artist and team are some bad ideas. One author came in and rewrote any previous work, or vice versa.
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>>78171991
Someone subscribed to Jmoyns' blog/whatever said that he wanted to have Jake cheat on Lady with Samantha and Pen said no because he liked their relationship.

How he vetoed the cheating but then green-lit fucking Frost and Fire and the derailment of Finn's character after that is beyond me. Like a fucking D&D campaign has lessons about puberty and shit.
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>>78172085
But they didn't. Finn hasn't been an enjoyable character since.
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>>78172094
Uh, I'm pretty sure Frost and Fire is a result of Xayaphone being terrible like always and the crew coming up with a hamfisted way to break up Finn and FP. You think they'll give guy whose boarded two episodes the ability to make story decisions like that?

Pearson is pretty good from all the episodes he's done so far, Candy Streets is better than most other Xayaphone episodes and I think him being on F/F made it not as bad as it could have been.

And what the fuck are you talking about, May I Come In is the best episode of Stakes.
>Best villain with best death
>good jokes throughout
>Finn and Jake are useful team assets
>character cohesion that is somewhat lacking everywhere else

Luke is great dude.
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>>78172094
We need a good list for each storyboarder
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why must they break them apart so much
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>>78159332
I don't know why you expect twenty-something men who spend their time doodling to know how to write a sweet romance. All they ever write about is how they feel when their fumbling makes the girl run away and how they 'just need to accept and understand' instead of learning how to improve their behavior.

Daniel Corsetto is a grown woman who runs a girl scout troop and her own business. Not the same as a scrawny animator who gets date raped and makes a children's cartoon to get over it.
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>>78172332
They *used* to be pretty good at writing most character relationships, and it's not that hard to write a cute little puppy love couple.

They just felt that wasn't mature enough so they destroyed all of it.

Man do I wish Corsetto worked on the other graphic novels, Playing With Fire is the only one that's good and all the others are as mediocre as can be.
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>>78172332
>how they 'just need to accept and understand' instead of learning how to improve their behavior.
holy shit this is the worst. these nerds gave up on women so they transfer their 'wisdom' onto Finn and except us to admire it. he could be suffocating under a pile of bitches right now.
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>>78172748
Suffocating under LSP was a very real danger for Finn.
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>>78172748
>swimming in bitches
I'm trying to remember some series in which the protagonist was in such a situation.
I know there's one out there, I've just forgotten it.
Anyhow, what I wanted to explain was that, in most cases, something like that just leads to unrealistic situations. ones the audience cant really connect with.
Which is good if your show is a mental-popcorn surface level anime or something. But not really adventure time, and its developed-ness
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>>78171859

>pic related
Just want to point out that characters other than Ice King have worn the crown and been fine.

I assume because the crown already has claimed Ice King.
Betty needed a huge procedure to transfer the madness out of magic fuck's hat.
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>>78172830
>muh relatability
Finn being the amazing superhuman hero of the whole continent wasn't terribly relatable either. Don't we want the show to be fun, and epic?

Anyway, at the very least he could simply take his just rewards from the princesses he saves. You know, we wouldn't have to see it, but he could flirt it up with various girls and not be punished for it. That's not too outrageous, albeit politically incorrect.
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>>78172940
Wasn't there an episode where Finn went around saving princesses for kisses?
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>>78159332
That was a great comic.
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>>78173036
you mean Breezy? he wasn't saving anyone, just begging.
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>>78172940
>superhuman hero
I don't really see this being a big concept for Finn.
Although the few times that it has, it ''was'' pretty cool (pic related)
And ya, the show should be fun and epic. But still a good story.
And its very easy to make it a bad story when your main character is superman prime.

>princess lovin
Also. You know what? i change my mind. Id actually like some non-intrusive flirtations between the princesses and Finn.
I like the idea of the princesses having low-key crushes on Finn, and Finn sheepishly shooing them off after each rescue.
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>>78173272
>its very easy to make it a bad story when your main character is superman prime
I can see the theory, but clearly nerfing Finn down to 'useless doofus teenager' hasn't improved the story, it's just embarassing. There's nothing wrong with a hero archetype being powerful.

>I like the idea of the princesses having low-key crushes on Finn, and Finn sheepishly shooing them off after each rescue.
Already used to happened, except the princesses who wanted him were conveniently never humanoid (what Finn wants).
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>>78172910
What about that alternate reality Finn that went insane when he put it on?
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>>78173435
Yeah. Stakes was a pretty poor performance on his part.
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>>78173493
The crown did not have a host at that point.
Ice king was dead.
When finn put it on, he became the new host.

ALSO HOLY SHIT is it just me or does the old hag in pic look like the Moon? connection or coincidence?
Illuminati confirmed???
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>>78173638
both designs by jmoyns, I'm guessin
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>>78173435
I completely agree with what you just said

thanks for explaining further anon
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>>78171859
THERE MUST ALWAYS BE AN ICE KING!
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I wonder what are on those 3 years worth of checkboxes?
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>>78173638
That's Marceline in that timeline, bro
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>>78174730
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>>78174175
They have 3 year worth of plan?
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Rebecca made her so Finn could actually have a love interest who would like him back, and also another adventuring partner. But the moment she left, the writers realized that they couldn't write her like Rebecca, so they broke her and Finn up and pushes FP aside.
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She was way too powerful.
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After seeing how they wasted young PB, only showing her in one episode and getting rid of her in the same episode, I knew it was only a matter of time until they fucked up FP, especially after Sugar left.
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Who made the decision to have her get with Cinnamon Bun? Who thought that was a good idea?
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If there's one and only one thing good to say about Sugar, it's that she's surprisingly-good at writing romance and character partnerships. FP and Finn were a perfect match, and it took Sugar leaving and several episodes' worth of writing contrivances to kill the whole deal. If not for her departure and executive/writer meddling, nothing could have stopped this from progressing into something great that provided a fun plot to follow.

This makes the mediocrity of her own show SU, a show with almost zero romance/partnership focus save for 5-second humor gags or single-episode character focuses like any other cartoon does, even funnier. She can write couples and romance like a fiend, but for anything outside that she's pretty lackluster. She went on to make her own show, but it's almost-entirely lacking the only content she really excels at writing.
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>>78177576
Wait, have you actually watched SU? A good amount of episodes focus on relationships and how they effect the Gems and Steven.
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>>78177453
I don't think they're really "Together." CB is pretty much her right hand man if anything.
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>>78177576
>it's almost-entirely lacking the only content she really excels at writing
I dunno, there's lots of romance themes in SU if you ask me. Steven and Connie are main characters in a cute little child relationship, Pearl's major issue is an old lover, and Garnet is a walking love affair.

The main character is younger than Finn so it's not as appropriate to put him in a steamy romance. I hope they let him get older and show what happens to him and Connie.

>She can write couples and romance like a fiend, but for anything outside that she's pretty lackluster.
she has a talent for action, anything that requires intense movement. but she doesn't exercise her potential enough in that area. I'm judging that based on AT, since SU isn't as much a reflection of her as it is of the people she chose as her storyboarders.
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>>78179021
>I hope they let him get older and show what happens to him and Connie.
What so they can fuck him up with puberty and shame him for having a sex drive like Finn and Dipper? No fucking thank you mate.
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>>78177576
Finn and PB's romance always had a masochistic streak that I found creepy.
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>>78179076
Rebecca wouldn't do that. She was trying very hard to keep that from happening to Finn, but it didn't work.
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>>78179088
They had trouble writing young Bubblegum plots so they decided to change her back. It's in the DVD commentary.

Fast forward 3 years and she has no interest in him and is possibly scissoring with Marceline.
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>>78179088
pic related is the only time I thought it was sweet and not creepy (guess who wrote this).
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>>78179189
>They had trouble writing young Bubblegum plots
There is more than one?
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>>78177634
Problem is that shit's getting repetitive, all their personalities and dynamics are well stablished.
Could we please move on with the plot instead of having a 5th episode showing how much of a trainwreck Pearl is?
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>>78179076
Don't you remember Alone Together. They finally "did it" with Steven's moms' full approval and it was a little scary but overall a sweet and happy event. I don't think the show has any problem with intimacy between the two of them.
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>>78179220
I mean after Mortal Recoil.

>>78179218
Hey Pajama War was good.
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>>78179220
>PBxFinn 10
what about the other 9?
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>>78179763
Nothing much to speak of.
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>>78179076
Where's the female storyboarder/writer to protect him from emasculation?
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>>78180314
I wonder if male and female writers portray Betacai noticeably differently. I remember RS has lots of both.
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>>78179292
That arc was mostly resolved with Sardonyx. Currently the show is dealing with Peridot adjusting to Earth.
>>
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>>78173272
>And its very easy to make it a bad story when your main character is superman prime.
It's totally fine if Finn gets beaten, when it's the point of a story like in Rattleballs. But making him a pushover just to show how PB&M are cool is just pure faggotry.
There should be a balance. Humans were weak enough to lose Eartth, but they were strong enough to survive thousand years after this. They could show it in latest Marceline, but survivors ended up being "wear an animal hat, hurr-durr".
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>>78180314
She's making Steven Universe.
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>>78180314
Save him from what?

He's going to save the town from disaster in the manliest way possible, and then Pacifica and her breasts will swoon and be taken by Dipper.
And Mabel will be held accountable for her actions.
And Soos will be useful.
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>>78159332
I still wish they would have just fixed the Red Throne shit by revealing that Flame Lord switched minds with Cinnamon Bun at the end of it.
That'd explain why he suddenly started acting differently, both CB and FL. Flame Lord was told by FP that she couldn't love someone she didn't know. So he took the body of her closest attendant.

After that spell hit, FL didn't say anything and acted really confused the whole time.
Even worse, CB straight up LIED and claimed the mind control was done by Flame King instead of Flame Lord.

And it'd be even better as at that point EVERYONE would have betrayed FP at some point, even the person she thought couldn't possibly lie.

Then there'd be two options:
>FP goes full evil, just like her father wanted as she feels there's no one she can trust in the world or
>FP comes to recognize that everyone's a dick and becomes willing to forgive Finn
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>>78183505
>FP comes to recognize that everyone's a dick and becomes willing to forgive Finn
But wouldn't that just be the same thing of Finn lurking around PB until she gives in?

Both girls are pretty much out the fucking window now. Thanks a lot writers.
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>>78183505
Why not both? FP goes evil and tries to destroy everything, Finn ends up talking her down and apologizes for being such a creep. They don't get back together immediately, but they eventually do.
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>>78183624
>Both girls are pretty much out the fucking window now
that wouldn't be a bad thing if true. not sure if it's true though, as Finn's lurking has not ceased. due to past shitty writing, any friendship he has with PB is best interpreted as lurking.
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>>78183649
>Flame Princess becoming the sexy but somewhat evil on-off girlfriend to grown up adventurer Finn
>Relationship full of sexual tension and Finn being torn between his duty and that flame ass
Basically like Catwoman or possibly even Talia to Finn's Batman honestly.
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>>78161674
I concur. I Found Finn & FP to be cute. Then came that episode. Fuck the Cosmic Owl.
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>>78183949
Finn fucked up first. However CO was a dick in not saying "Hey this is bad and you should stop it" since he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing when he's turned on.
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>>78183505
I don't see how it fixes anything, the whole thing was a dead end from the beginning. People could see it since first episode.
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I haven't posted in an AT thread for a long time, last time was with the "Billy's Bucket List" talkback thread.
so my question is, is worth to watch everything i missed so far? last thing i remember is Finn losing his arm and thats it.
help me /co/
also
Finnceline till the day i fucking die
>>
>>78184430
There have been good episodes, bad episodes, and lots of mediocrity, but if you were still with it to Billy's Bucket List I think you would enjoy enough of the episodes after that for it to be worth watching.
Don't believe their lies though: plot will never go anywhere. Don't dare to dream or you will be crushed anon.

So I think you should go for it, just be sort of wary. Nice taste in ships too bruv.
>>
>>78184430
people are really divided on season 6 but plotwise nothing stuck.

spoiler he gets it back because magic
>>
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>>78183833
Holy shit, that would have been top fun.
Why can't we have nice things?
>>
>>78184430
Fubblefag reporting. Godspeed to you and your brethren anon.
>>
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>>78184567
Finn getting his arm back felt like a backwards step for the character.
>>
>>78186509
At least he got a power that's never gonna come up.
>>
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>>78186685
Man he's got the Finn sword, the grass arm and all the cool shit he's collected over the years. They just don't want him using any of it in preference to indulge more pain on his love life.
>>
>>
>>
>>78188286
Pretty fuggi' nice
>>
>>78183833
>He commits minor crimes to get his attention because he hasn't called her in a while
>>
>>78190569
*She commits....
>>
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Because God is dead
>>
>>78190569
Could be like Dave the Barbarian and his evil girlfriend that I can't type out the name of.
>>
>>78171156
>the answer to life, the universe and everything.

But what is the question of the answer to life, the universe and everything?
>>
>>78186509
Fortunately at NYCC they mentioned that the business with his arm isn't over.
>>
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>>78194187
Well, the grass arm was mentioned in Stakes, so they have something planned, but there's not much really there to say that it should be expected to be good.
>>
>>78188193
continue
>>
>>78194187
Of course it's not over, nothing in this show ever is. That doesn't mean the idea is worth shit anymore. They fugged up, it's ova.
>>
>>78197144
I still believe that it can be turned around. This season had a strong start even if Finn was shit in Stakes.
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>>78198187
>I still believe that it can be turned around
I like your optimism. I hope they can have him go back to kicking evil butt within the season but I'm not so sure they'll concede.

>>78194630
That's all of it anon
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>>78188286
Thread posts: 148
Thread images: 57


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