Looks like we got nothing to worry about.

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James Roach and Ryan North comment too, before I forget to post it

>>78081963
> If you keep being mean to me I promise to tell you NOTHING about what we're doing with your money!

>>78082494

Yeah, fuck that.

>>78081313
is this the depressed suicidal person that ranted about capitalism and didn't sell the books that thheyowed?

>>78082544
There's a lot of people like that, anon, you're going to have to be more specific

>>78082544
No.

>>78082544
Nope. The webcomic scene is full of attention whores so I'm not surprised you're confused.
I wonder if these guys are on suicide watch after Toby finished his game with rave reviews with a fraction of their budget.

>>78082544
>>78082568
no thats the pictures for sad children guy i think his name is jc green

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>>78082544
Apparently this is one of the guy's most famous tweets
does it look familiar

So I saw the post the guy made telling everyone how hiveswap is super fucked using publicly available info and he never said the new head writer was an alcoholic. Did he make a second post or is this just another case of people being fucking stupid and jumping on a hate bandwagon for this guy?

>>78082666
Naw man, KC Green was the guy that sent a DMCA takedown notice to get rid of the rape robot edit picture. Different drama queens.

>>78082806
To be honest, the guy has acknowledged he drinks a lot, so it's more of a joke than a hate bandwagon

>>78083014
For the hate bandwagon, he posted it on plebbit (I don't remember if it's word filtered or not and I'm on my phone so I'll just borrow a shitty /v/ term) and everyone agreed. Then suddenly after the chick who drew porn of the beehive troll got angry someone linked her publicly posted deviantart where she talked about hiveswap laying people off, he started being treated ass ass stalker creep. I mean maybe I'm wrong and he was making a bunch of comments like this but from what I saw he was totally fine since the hiveswap crew was dumb enough to not cover their tracks and not talk about the game for so long

>hiveswap is still being made
Well that's a shame

How long until update

>>78082634
>rave reviews

You mean bribed reviews by the cabal?

>>78081313
who?

Is this a homestuck thread

can i post homestuck here

>>78085578
Only if you find the missing arts from the calendar

>>78085028
>SJWs co-opting a good game to push their agenda is bribery.

>>78082634
Wait is this the guy who suppose to make Hamsteak game?

He getting payed on patreon?
why?

>they must be on suicide watch because of Undertale!

Hardly, because unlike Toby they are not living with their parents.

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You deserve it, /co/

Still have not seen any proof that What Pumpkin had to lay off people.

>>78083169
Still creepy.

>>78088254
Wyatt A Mann is god's gift to mankind.

>>78088224
just as equally sad they cant finish it, After how many years?

>We're working on it

Is this really good enough for anyone?

>>78088373
Just one; the original group made an unplayable single-room demo and spent the money on King's Quest and then some second game after Hussie cancelled the contract. They had to start from scratch a little over a year ago, not that there was much done in the first place. At least it's in-house now.

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>>78088422
Better than the awkward silence there has been.

>>78088373
Toby wasn't fucked over by another company or had any other big project he had to focus on, or a big death in the family.

So yeah, I don't think they are sad about another guy being lucky and ripping shit off from other places.

>>78081313
>>78081963
Why is there an NDA like this in the first place? There are plenty of games that are way more open about their development process than this train wreck.

Regular updates about its process isn't unreasonable considering it's funded from fans.

>>78088424
They used $300k of the 2.6m. Where did this they stole everything excuse come from?

>>78088465
>boo hoo indie scene drama XD
>boo hoo family ded,

yeah nah.

>>78088550
I may be pulling this number out of my ass but I think they took almost 915K out of the total of 1.7mil (after taxes, fees, and physical rewards)
so they've only had whatevers left. which they pissed away ON A WALL STREET OFFICE

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Fresh news post.

>>78089345
>stuffs happening guys trust me! I'll show you later
>buy my garbage

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>>78088550
It was a lot more than $300k. How is "the developers we hired stole a few hundred grand" an "excuse?" In which universe is that just an excuse? I think it's a pretty fucking good reason.

Shhh! Don't tell anyone I'm here. I wrote this, but I don't have anywhere else to post it. I'm just gonna leave it here, and walk away.

archiveofourown.org/works/5385566

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>>78089345
It's funny how this is clearly in response to all the recent outcry. But it's good to see at least he's paying attenion

>>78089345
>I'll probably be in a better position to say when Homestuck will update by the end of the year.
What do you think it's gonna be?

>>78090090
You'd think Hussie would have gotten more actual fucking legal protection though. Dumb nerds don't know the first thing about business.

>>78091300
Did hussies teachers really think he was retarded when he was 12?
His words not mine.

>>78091439
Hussie might have high functioning autism
Or at least is socially awkward, he's a programmer after all

>Hiveswap not cancelled
Does... anyone really care?

>>78092238
Enough people got worked up over it enough to speculate that it got cancelled and shit.

>>78088254
More like
>HE TRUSTED HUSSIE

>>78092238
Hiveswap is basically going to be Undertale 2. It'll be the best game of 2016, easily.

>>78092321
I don't know, Undertale is a hard act to follow

>>78091240
It's going to be LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES

>>78091240
he will say he will have the end on 4/13. of 2017

>every bloodswap fic ever
>Vriska is a crybaby / Karkat 2.0
>Tavros is a bully
>Eridan is a heroic good person
>every teal!blood is blind
>every rust!blood is dead and a ghost
>every violet!blood is a hipster
>every yellow!blood has Sollux's duality fetish
>every indigo!blood is Equius

the memes need to stop.

>>78093156
>Reading bloodswap fics

You knew what you were getting yourself into. You only have yourself to blame for this.

>>78093211
b-b-but

I fell in love with indigo!Kanaya

>>78092238
Everybody was shitting their pants over it on Wednesday, so apparently there's a lot of people who care.

>>78093280
That's dumb. You're dumb. Stop being dumb.

>>78093156
>Tavros is a bully
Where?
>every indigo!blood is Equius
To be fair, Equius is supposedly a typical blueblood

>>78093381
>implying every indigo blood has equius' freakish strength

>>78093407
Yeah, that's definitely an Equius thing, not a blueblood thing. They'd never be able to make all the art/smut they enjoy or just generally enjoy a refined life with that kind of strength

>>78089345
i bet he's just rushing to put together something to show off so it looks like things are going well

What is Meenah's favorite color?

Hard mode: no fuchsia or gold

>>78093771
candy red
or
cerulean

Are (Vriska) and (Terezi) double double bo bouble dead or what? The end of the flash was a little ambiguous.

>>78088311
People have the right to know what's happening with their money.

It's quite frankly awful that there's so little communication happening between the people who gave money and the company that's spending it. After pretty flagrant mismanagement as well. I have no real sympathy for the devs anymore, they do not have the right to be as shady as they are being with other people's money.

>>78094409
We don't know.
Maybe Hussie wants the GO!characters relevant or this was the final goodbye flash for them.

>>78093813
She needs to decide for one color.

What a thirsty fish.

>>78093771

salmon

get it? it's a color and a fish

>>78092432
>Davesprite prettying Jade up thanks to bird instincts
Cute, if kinda weird

>>78094755
Would you rather it involve egg-laying

it's a good thing that this game will come out at a time when homestuck is still really relevant and has a large, active fanbase

>>78094457
>other people's money
You gave them your money. It's not your money anymore. It belongs to them now.

The same argument could be made for the development of HL3. You paid them for HL2, HL2:E1 and HL2:E2, and you expected that money to be used for HL2:E3. Now they may or may not be actually working on HL2:E3 or HL3, and they're under no obligation to tell you what they're doing with "your" money.

>>78095226
that analogy is retarded and doesn't work at all

>>78094933
The game has almost nothing to do with the comic though. It doesn't have the same characters or take place at the same time or in the same place, nor does it involve the major driving force(s) of plot in the comic. (unless Skaia somehow shows up without Sburb, or LE shows up for some reason)

>>78095259
He's being sarcastic.

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what the hell

Name the most boring character in Homestuck.

Hard mode: No Kanaya, Rose or Calliope.

>>78095577
But Kanaya is the most boring character in Homestuck????

If you're preventing me from answering her, I guess I'll throw down a Jade. She's less shitty than the other Space players but still pretty goddamn shitty.

>>78093813
Fucking lewd.

>>78095577
Karkat for being reduced to an endgame character like Jade.

>>78089345
Looks like
>>78081963
is BTFO

>>78095577
Most to least boring:

Kanaya
Calliope
Rose
Feferi
Jane
Dirk
Jake
Rest of the Trolls not mentioned in the list (only good for meme material and plot devices)
Jade
Terezi (Good Vriska who does nothing wrong, Hussie experimenting on turning a girlfriend character like her into a main one)
Caliborn (overrated antagonist)
Roxy (girlfriend character, had her flaws fixed)
Karkat (still a boring good guy who does nothing evil, despite self-loathing)
John (PoV character)
Dave (Hussie's self-insert and most developed character)
Vriska (So controversial and bullshit, you will always have something to talk about her)

Prove me wrong.

>>78095577
Jane, hell I would say all of the post-scratch kids considering their entire arc seemed to drag on with little payout other than the fact that they got their god tier outfits.

fuck off with that eceleb garbage.

>>78096222
Jane's pay-off was becoming a crockerdrone, that had been built up since her introduction

the other three have yet to finish their arc though but it's been pretty heavily telegraphed what it will be

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>>78092339
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4nntmjrEs4

Is it bad to thing Meenkat is as shitty as Davekat?

>>78097544
No. But then again I have shit taste so

>>78097544
Only if you are a butthurt Karezifag.

>>78097942
Ah, yup. That's me. Add me to the butthurt JohnVris pile as well.

>>78097942
I think karkat is terrible in any ship tbqh

>>78093156
>reading Homestuck fanfics
LOL

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>>78098163
Just like Vriska.

Except fangirls see him only as an gay option, because lmao at having a manlet protect you. Better ship him with tall people like Gamzee, Sollux and Dave.

>>78098079
I am so sorry, but Hussie loves his changing relationships. Wouldn't surprise me though that Tavris and Karezi still happen in the end.

It's fucking Hussie. But fuck him for cockblocking those shipfags and promising other assholes a chance.

And fuck him again for turning a simple adventure comic into shipping wars.

>>78097544
Meena is trash, and Hussie ruined Dave with all his weird talk about sexuality.

>>78098387
As much of a shipper I am, it would've been better if he had kept ships low key. Maybe some flirting here or there and some end game stuff, maybe 1 or 2 confirmed developed relationships even. But all this getting together and breaking up off screen shit where almost every character has fucked each other in some universe is just....exhausting.

>>78098079
>he supported john x vriska
http://www.wikihow.com/Tie-a-Hangmans-Noose

>>78098387
>all those ships that happened and those unconfirmed ones
>pale Karkat/Kanaya
>flushed Kanaya/Tavros
>flushed Karkat/Vriska (>tfw no Nepeta rp askblogs throwing autismfits over that ship)

Nepeta, please.

thought it was a little incredible that hiveswap staff were making fun of the controversy on twitter

you'd think they'd learn something about being professional

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>>78089345

>trusting Andrew "LIES" Hussie

>>78090090
It kind of sounds like Hussie wasn't paying attention to his own project and got screwed

>>78098382
For some people, the 800k+ words of Homestuck isn't enough. They crave more, and that's the only way to get it.

>>78100654
Not too mention many fanfics are arguably better than what the comic has been putting out for the past few years.

>>78081963
god james roach is a cunt

>>78100830
those are some of the most reasonable tweets he's made

but you're still right

>>78100747
I think "many" might be a little generous.

>>78100905
I suppose you're right. I actually only thinking of a handful.

I love webcomic drama. It's more OTT than regular comic drama.

who ARADIA here

>>78088224
That nigga ain't gonna be living there anymore, he's got literal millions.

>>78088465
>Implying Hussie's more than tangentially involved. Implying this changes that it's taking a team of several people just as long as one dude and a few friends making extra pixel art.

>>78096215
Can't really disagree

>>78100929

im better at writing equius than hussie

>>78101471
I think you're just horsing around

>>78102022

i never stop horsing around

>>78101072
me

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>>78101072

Vriska > Aradia

How do we fix Kanaya? She is fucking boring.

>>78106754
her only value was awkwardly integrating with human culture, now that's over there's nothing else for her

she needs to struggle to integrate with dersites or something for her to be interesting again

>>78106754
breaking up with rose is the only way

>>78106985
And then have her crawl back to Vriska? Fuck no.

>>78107031
not that i was implying that, but at least kanaya/vriska is more interesting

>>78106754
>How do we fix Kanaya?
by letting her have dialogue instead of standing awkwardly at the back of every group shot

kanaya as a character isn't boring she just hasn't done jack shit for ages

>>78107102
i'd say "oh it's okay hussie is just building up towards something awesome" but after the retcon and the sprite shit i don't really trust him as much as i used to

>>78107136
hey, at least she's not jane

>>78107212
jane's going to be the one to impale the condesce

>>78107228
that doesn't make her character less shit

>Hussie shooting down the possibility of Karkat joining Jade and Alt!Calliope
Now I am praying that he ends up with the ghost army. I just want to see Karkat and Vriska acting like angry manchildren and beating each other up.

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>>78107251
but she isn't shit

>>78107296
cheesecake also doesn't make her character less shit

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>>78107308
she has the same amount of character as john, really

>>78107358
being a pov tier character when nothing of interest happens from her pov especially doesn't make her character less shit

>>78107386
i think they're more than mere pov characters

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>>78107102
>the last time kanaya did something was when she grew balls and slapped rose back to sobriety with them
>that got retconned so that vriska can do it instead
it's like
everything vriska "fixes" is just shit most characters have already done but "just a bit too late"
vriska's necessity is just so unconvincing

>>78095226
>Pay people to do something
>They don't do what is required of them and aren't transparent enough with information that they have despite the fact the backers have a right to know
No, it's more like people gave 1 million + to a kickstarter with the intent to get a product out of it. Since the overwhelming success of the kickstarter the vast majority of the money has been squandered with absolutely nothing to show for it. Since then the team has not been open about what they've doing with money that is to go towards the product.

It's nothing like buying and getting a game because they're getting what they spent their money on. Because the backers haven't (and may not be getting) what they put their money towards. They certainly wont be getting their 1 million + quality that they rightfully earned.

>>78107943
some backers never even got sent those merch paks they had as rewards

>>78083169
it was posting hussies gf's steam account info and telling ppl how to access peoples private accounts in a separate post that did him in.
he made everyone else legitimately trying to find out wtf they were doing with the fandoms money look bad. generally if a kickstarter goes silent for half a year then its a scam/failure. while it was a dbag thing to do on their part, the lack of communication from wp was still the root of the problem.

>>78095273
oh yeah thats weird....

>>78081963
Why do people hire drama queens for their video games?

>>78111689
they can't afford actual professionals i assume

>>78088484
From what I gather, the NDA is mostly due to a certain company using half the money to make a certain other game that they weren't supposed to with it.

>>78092338
>Implying Toby Fox was the writer of Homestuck the whole time and not just an influence on an equally adept creative mind

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>>78089345
>The game is really making good progress, you guys! I mean it!

>>78112085
that shouldn't affect them at this point, these new employees haven't even worked with them

>>78098079
>Add me to the butthurt JohnVris pile
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one, they were cute

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>>78112085
Or just because Hussie predicted troubled development and doesn't want anyone leaking it
Or spoilers, or otherwise
Honestly who the fuck knows what that bastard is thinking at this point

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>Tfw Homestuck is never going to finish.

>>78114333
Don't worry anon, it'll finish
Two days after your death

>>78114272
dave and jade were the cutest

>>78091682
he has low functioning autism

>>78101241
Ever since undertale blew up Toby's parents live with him.

>>78114473
>Has the capability to sit and stare at his screen for 16 hours a day drawing cartoony doodles and right droves of dialog like a braindead mental patient
It checks out. Huss has snowglobe syndrome.

>>78098079
>>78114123
Don't worry! Vriska will end up with Jake, because Jake's character description makes him destined to fall in love with blue spiderbitches! Just like Terezi and red shit!

>>78114903
Jake's not John though

>>78091300
>>78099985
I work at a small company that jobs stuff out to contractors. It is not unusual at all for them to ask for half payment up front, even when they have a whole bunch of milestones to hit before they'll unlock further payments. The thing that protects you is that the industry is small and they have a reputation to uphold. The game industry doesn't quite work that way, and the big studios profit hugely from deceiving people about the particulars of why, so it does not surprise me that even an otherwise experienced businessman would make a misstep like hiring TOG.

>>78115549
>otherwise experienced businessman
he can't even sell shirts right

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>>78114903
Or just blue girls in general

>>78115584
I mean, he wasn't running What Pumpkin by himself.

>>78115549
>I work at

your lying & i stopped reading

>>78081313
Wait, Skull Man? The same one who made those old Penny Arcade edits in Fixedsys font? Huh.

>>78115831
who?

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>>78115981
roxykitten is the new hot commodity, get with the times

>>78115929
The guy who made the tweets this thread is about, apparently.

I just clicked on the thread for its eye-catching OP image to wonder who this tweeter we're all talking about is, and after reading it I'm still not sure who it is.

>>78116055
it's someone who's sold things on topatoco before, and they used to be a teacher
apparently they also had a webcomic at one point but it only made it like three pages before stopping
no idea who skull man is though, considering the tweeter is a woman i kind of doubt it.

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>>78115981

>the ecountless threads filled with endless autistic eri corps shitposting

I feel old.

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>>78116105
That one.

>>78116163
it says 'skull mandible' you chode

>>78116263
That's the name they use on Twitter. I was referring to their Wubble Woo handle.

>>78116378
well whatever, if it is the same person as skull man i don't actually know anything about them either, so it doesn't matter

>>78081963
he types like a fucking tumblr female, disgusting

>>78116454
read the thread, it IS a woman

>>78116534
christ, who trusted a female with responsibility?

>>78116595
dude if you're gonna shit on her you can shit on her writing, like seriously out of all the things relating to hiveswap you could be mad about you go for her being a woman?

>>78116607
I haven't attacked her womanhood

>>78116617
the fuck are you talking about

Headcanon: All doomed Gamzees, Araneas and Vriskas are shoved in a dreambubble hell

GO!Karkat is also there

>>78117014
>Vriskas
No anon, why would a hero like her end up in hell?

>>78117131
Gamzee is also a hero and he ended up in hell as well

Karkat is the only one who is truly evil.

>>78116105
>>78116534
Okay, are you saying that @skullmandible is a woman or are we talking about someone else? I'm getting conflicting info, here.

>>78117377
skullmandible is a woman, skull man MIGHT be skullmandible but idk who that is

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>>78117593

>>78117686
>My patreon page, if you want to see what I'm supporting
the fuck? who plugs their patreon account when they don't even accept money

>>78117748
When they want to let everyone know that they're financially supporting Zoë Quinn and Kate Leth, apparently.

>>78098079
>>78114123
It was the 8est.

>>78117808
I want to know what the job requirements are at What Pumpkin, more specifically how emasculated you have to be.

>>78118069
>be friends with the clique
>that's it

>>78118094
I'm glad nepotism is alive and well.

>>78081313
>jewish ghosts

>>78117686
He looks kind of like the faggy pajama hipster hispanic who posed for Obama's insurance ads

>>78118127
hindu spirits

>>78118135
Who?

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>>78118517
This guy?

>>78117842
You know what is 8etter?

Vriska helping out alien opposite!John.

>>78118609
>Vriska helping out alien opposite!John.
No, also I'm not positive who you're referring to at this point

>>78117842
You always have fanfics anon
Unless Hussie does something to ruin all end ships, like say Jade destroys them, then your head canon can go wild how John and Vriska will get back together

>>78118626
Good.

>>78118638
The last VriskaXJohn fic I read had Vriska cheating on John with his best friend Karkat and Dave wanted to gay up John.

>>78118663
>The last VriskaXJohn fic I read had Vriska cheating on John with his best friend Karkat and Dave wanted to gay up John.
I think that would be a DaveXJohn fic, only using JohnXVriska to get them together, either way find better JohnXVrska fics
On a side note I really wish there were less shitty Complete AUs cluttering up most fanfic sites

>>78118638
I can't think of a single good John/Vriska fanfiction.

>>78118663
last one I read had Vriska nearly kill a guy with a fire escape after being triggered by a mounted bull head

>>78118696
I've seen a few, in most of them it wasn't the focus though, most also haven't been updated in a few years


>>78118703
>after being triggered by a mounted bull head
It took me a second to realize what the logic was behind this, seriously doubt she'd get triggered from something like that but I kinda want a link, sounds like it might be funny

>>78118682
I hate how every fucking AU was always John/Karkat, Rosemary, Dave/Terezi, and now it's Dave/Karkat and Rosemary

>>78118725
http://archiveofourown.org/works/582309/chapters/1045675

>>78118727
Meh, I can stand canon pairings in AUs as long as it's not "they meet and suddenly fall in love", keeping canon chemistry is easy plus shipping so I can get why they'd do that, John/Karkat doesn't have that excuse though

>>78118743
Thanks, it's 6 AM so I'll probably read it in the morning/afternoon when I get up

>>78118727
You could blame Tumblr, but tumblr is just what deviantart was back in 2005.
Here's hoping there will be as much an upset as Naruto's endgame pairs caused.

>>78118770
>Here's hoping there will be as much an upset as Naruto's endgame pairs caused.
I'm honestly hoping for the endgame to either have no pairings and everyone deciding to just be friends, a distant epilogue where they ended up pairing up with completely new characters, or Hussie somehow pulling a full circle and the endgame pairings being everyone's first "canon pairing"

>>78118786
>or Hussie somehow pulling a full circle and the endgame pairings being everyone's first "canon pairing"
That would probably cause the most upset.
Let's do it.

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This is making me think, is Joey going to have chatlogs and stuff, or is it just going to be narration explaining what she's thinking

God I fucking hate all of you people at this point.

>>78119069
comedy adventure games usually let you pick different humorous responses during dialog.

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>There will be something that makes Vriska being retconned into the story (and all the nonstop focus and erased development it involves) 1000% worth it
>Karkat will have his moment of glory and Tavros will actually have a character arc because there is totally enough time left, guys
>Terezi will stop hanging out with people who poison her everyday life
>The space players are going to be interesting
>The comic will acknowledge forms of abuse other than Bro's on Dave
>We'll learn about the Ultimate Riddle and other major plot points that were dropped will resurface along with answers
>Something will justify the existence of all these new minor sprite characters
>Jane and Jake will get some character development
>The updates will resume before April 2016
>The updates will resume before 2017, period
>The Hiveswap Kickstarter stretch goals won't be ignored
>The game will be worth the hiatus
>The game will be worth anything

Post more lies.

>>78119069
As he types in the air the words the words are made manifest. The world of tomorrow.

Printing is possible, but unsavory.

>>78119102
>The comic will acknowledge forms of abuse other than Bro's on Dave
it also had Vriska on Tavros and Gamzee on Terezi and Doc Scratch on Handmaid

When will the adjective!person fad die? 90% of the time you can just use a space there and it has literally the same meaning for everyone reading and it doesn't make you look like a special snowflake retard.

>>78119158
it's survived since Livejournal. It's not dying anytime soon.

>>78119158
Not anytime time soon. Welcome to an illiterate hell.

>>78119102
>Jane and Jake will get some character development
Jane got sick of being a doormat, Jake got sick of pretending he was anything but an excitable couch potato

>>78119120
"Have" is not "acknowledge".
There was a massive chatlog about how Bro's shit fucked Dave up.
Now look at Terezi, there's been some mentions of the consequences of Gamzee's physical abuse, but not much on Vriska's emotional vampirism.
And then there's Tavros, for whom it's basically "Dave gets violently thrown down stairs: the character arc".

Ideally, if the comic's going to show the characters talking about how abuse fucked them up, it should do so with all currently relevant characters, not just Dave.

But I'm saying it's unlikely to happen.

>>78090669
I liked it, more when?

>>78119102
>Karkat will have his moment of glory

HE DECAPITATES VRISKA

MARK MY WORDS

I'm so sick of waiting for the hiatus to end. Why could Hussie have a one page per week schedule or something? It would've been better than this.

>>78119244
>HE DECAPITATES VRISKA
>Her clock is broke, it's neither a Heroic or Just death
>This is only learned after Vriska resurrects off panel and stabs him in the back

>>78119264
>Hussie adopts one page per week
>He never mentioned which week

>>78082806
>So I saw the post the guy made telling everyone how hiveswap is super fucked
Not super fucked, but basically, they had to fire a lot of people.

>>78119277
There's no escape from this torture

>>78119069
Wonder how bitter Joey is towards her dad

>>78083169
>Then suddenly after the chick who drew porn of the beehive troll got angry someone linked her publicly posted deviantart where she talked about hiveswap laying people off
Can you be clearer about that?

All she did was post a log about how she was jobless again. She actually mentionned that the working condition at Hiveswap were actually quite good.

>>78119244
Reminder that Homestuck characters who plan on killing a Serket tend to go for the neck.

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>>78119316
(Forgot the pic.)

>>78119316
>>78119322
>Shortly before she gets decapitated, Vriska has a chatlog that calls back to her mind controlling Jade, with her mentioning in preparation for Grimbark!Jade she practiced a bit more mind controlling humans, and though she did make progress it never worked quite right
>Vriska gets her head torn off like in the prophesy
>As her head rolls on the ground her mindcontrol powers activate before fading a way as she dies
>When Jade next shows up she's acting a bit odd, most notably she's using lots of 8s in her speech and occasionally manifesting THIEF and LIGHT powers in addition to her WITCH and SPACE powers
>No one notices because they just chalk it up to her being by herself for 3 years

>>78119270
>implying he didn't plan this to end his suffering once and for all

>>78119376
>Implying Vriska hasn't decided to not kill any more of her "friends"/people that tolerate her and just severs his spine leaving him paralyzed from the neck down

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>>78119102
>>There will be something that makes Vriska being retconned into the story (and all the nonstop focus and erased development it involves) 1000% worth it
Well, the convo between Dave and Roxy make it.
>Karkat will have his moment of glory and Tavros will actually have a character arc because there is totally enough time left, guys
Well, he might be about to lead a ghost army in Dreambubble, I'd say. As for Tavos, is ghost part at least got his character Arc.
>Terezi will stop hanging out with people who poison her everyday life
She actually did. (partly thanks to the Vriska retcon)
>The space players are going to be interesting
The kind of ominous fate implied for Jade being linked to the sun power actually make he interesting.
>The comic will acknowledge forms of abuse other than Bro's on Dave
Gamzee. And, to a lesser level, Drik with Jake.
>We'll learn about the Ultimate Riddle and other major plot points that were dropped will resurface along with answers
We learned about the ultimate riddle a long time ago, it's that the players are their own ectoclones. Mind you we had other interresting revelation, like Lord English being partly made of Arquius and HAlf Gamzee, making Doc Scratch effectively Rose's Uncle.
>Something will justify the existence of all these new minor sprite characters
Well, Arquius is already justified by being part of Lord English, as for Davepetasprite, Jasprosesprite, Tavrossprite having now first guardian power and Nannasprite being now double and interracting with her younger clone, it all seems very promising.
>Jane and Jake will get some character development
Jane is going to have a moment with her old -self as for Jake, we'll see how he handle stuff with Jack Noir. We already know his hope power almost cause the defeat of Lord English.

>>78119209
>but not much on Vriska's emotional vampirism.
It was acknowledged and resolved. Vriska and Terezi are in better term since they have becom moirail. There is no more vampirism than in a normal moiral relationship.

>>78119209
>And then there's Tavros, for whom it's basically
The whole abuse between tavros and Vriska has been acknowledged and in some way sorted out, though.

>>78119391
>not knowing that Karkat unlocked his candyred blood powers
>implying he doesn't teleport behind Vriska and stabs her back

>>78119209
>>78119424

Dave's conversation with terezi where he kinda tries to defend bro
the conversation with rose where he admits bro was awful
Dave and dirk have one of the biggest and longest conversations in all of homestuck about how shitty bro was to him

Bonus: bro died years ago and dave meet dirk after he realized how awful he was to jake.

(tavros) forgave vriska for everything after tavriskasprite exploded
became obsessed with marrying her
slipped right being meenah's butt monkey after his dance
tavrosprite said all the horrible things vriska said and did to him are both true and deserved

The only time they focus on the shit vriska's done to tavros is when SHE feels bad about it.

>>78119733
>(tavros) forgave vriska for everything after tavriskasprite exploded
>became obsessed with marrying her
Forgot the part where he quit that idea
Forgot the part where he literraly tell vriska to fuck off and stopp being his lap monkey
Forgot the part where he fly away while double flipping the bird
Then came back to prove Vriska once again wrong.
and all of this was magnificent.

>slipped right being meenah's butt monkey after his dance
Had Meenah done anything bad to tavros. Isn't Tavros allowed to give a setp to some random girl.
>tavrosprite said all the horrible things vriska said and did to him are both true and deserved
Tavrossprite has still some learning to do, but Ghost Tavros definitely got his character arc and stopped being Vriska's bitch.

>>78119733
Didn't (Tavros) flip off (Vriska) after realizing how shit she is?

>>78119733
Thank you for saying it. What we have right now for Tavros/Vriska is Vriska basically saying "ok, MAYBE I did some awful things BUT it's not fucked up because I mean well" something like three times tops in her whole arc, and then immediately going back to abusing him.

Acknowledging abuse as a Thing That Happened In The Story involves at least one character calling that specific dynamic abuse, or drawing attention to how fucked up and damaging it's been to the victim. This has not happened.

>>78119801
>>78119806
The victim escaping the abuser's grasp (which has only been temporary in Tavros's case) has nothing to do with abuse being acknowledged.

>Some good things have temporarily happened to Tavros, therefore, abuse was acknowledged
I don't understand the way you guys think.

>>78119413
Are we reading the same comic?
You know, the one where Terezi Pyrope meekly goes along with every single one of Vriska's suggestions because she's so sorry for almost having killed her? To the point of being totally ok with Vriska not bringing back Feferi and Nepeta? The comic where Vriska regularly asks her for approval and Terezi is desperate to give it no matter what? Seriously?

>>78119801

This is about how the story treats tavros's abuse by vriska compared to dave's by bro.

>Had Meenah done anything bad to tavros. Isn't Tavros allowed to give a setp to some random girl.

Meenah has done things just as bad as if not worse then vriska during the course of the story. After assembling a friend army meenah used tavros as a podium and gave a speech (to his army) about how they're cannon fodder who will die for her bacause sh's so great.

>>78119806

After (tavros) flipped off (vriska) he was gone from the story for 3 years, During that time time we had two vriska constantly talking about how they felt.

>>78119852
>The victim escaping the abuser's grasp (which has only been temporary in Tavros's case) has nothing to do with abuse being acknowledged.
But it's not what happens. Tavros literally acknowledge everything bad Vriska has done to him. Shove her nose in her own dirt and go away not to flee, but simply because he has no reason to stay.

This is not escaping the abuser's grasp, it's kicking him in the balls before dsimply minding your own business.

And he only come back to prove Vriska even more.

the abuse was acknoledged, addressed, and, unlike with Dave (because Bro was already dead), Tavros was able to tell everything to her face and actually get back at her.

>To the point of being totally ok with Vriska not bringing back Feferi and Nepeta?
We have not been reading the same comic, because this is not what happened.

First, it's not the same Terezi, second, it's not that she is okay to not bring back Nepeta and Terezi, it's simply that she agree to keep the sprite as a last resort option.

>The comic where Vriska regularly asks her for approval and Terezi is desperate to give it no matter what? Seriously?
Not what happens.

>>78119891
>This is about how the story treats tavros's abuse by vriska compared to dave's by bro.
Once again, the moment when Tavros flip off to vriska and fly away completely acknowledge the abuse.

>Meenah has done things just as bad as if not worse then vriska during the course of the story. After assembling a friend army meenah used tavros as a podium and gave a speech (to his army) about how they're cannon fodder who will die for her bacause sh's so great.
But did she do anything to Tavros? Why should Tavros resent her?

>>78119929
>Once again, the moment when Tavros flip off to vriska and fly away completely acknowledge the abuse.

Bro's dead, and dave got to talk to multiple people along the story about how he feels about what happened to him. One of those people is a version of his bro who realized how awful he can be towards other people.

(tavros) flip off led him to be out of the story for 3 years while we followed two vriskas around and (tavros) still ended right back with vriska when the story came back to him.

>But did she do anything to Tavros? Why should Tavros resent her?

Meenah treats (tavros) just as bad as vriska. Remember the pirate journey where meenah told him to keep bowing and worshiping her? We saw how long it took him to realize how shitty vriska was do we really need that to happen again but this time with fish version of vriska.

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>>78119920
>>78119929
>i do not know what "acknowledgement" means
dude, if nobody in the story says it was abuse and bad for tavros, then it wasn't acknowledged
acknowledgement isn't things happening, it's things being said that are like "ok, that was a thing that happened and it was abuse and it had this consequence and that consequence".

until nobody calls vriska's action abusive or draws attention to how it has been incredibly hurtful to tavros to the point of trauma, there is no acknowledgement. story events are not acknowledgement.

>>78120013
>(tavros) flip off led him to be out of the story for 3 years while we followed two vriskas around and (tavros) still ended right back with vriska when the story came back to him.
Tavros didn't just flip her off, though, he told to her everything that was wrong with her and why she was awful.

And him being absent from the story after that doesn't back in any way your point. The abuse of Vriska toward tavors was still adressed and resolved. His lack of appearance has zero impact on that.

>Meenah treats (tavros) just as bad as vriska.
No?
>Remember the pirate journey where meenah told him to keep bowing and worshiping her?
She didn't coerce him into anything. Nor did he treat tavros like shit no matter what he does. At this point, it look more like a game of pretend than anything. And Ghost Tavros is at a point where he woulf let Meenah fell flat would she start loosing her shit like Vriska.

>>78120018
It's 100% acknowledged.

It was even acknowledged back then by Kanaya.

Fuck, It was even acknowledged by Araadia, who started to make Ghosts haunt Vriska as a payback for what Vriska had done to Tavros.

Vriska abuse was acknowledged ant in the end resulted with her losing an eye and her arms.

Also:
TAVROS: i THINK YOUR MEAN SPIRITED ANGRINESS IS MAKING ME REMEMBER, tO WONDER WHY i KEEP WANTING TO HELP YOU AND LIKE YOU,
TAVROS: aND i THINK IT'S MAKING ME THINK, i DON'T REALLY CARE ANYMORE ABOUT FINDING THE RING, oR FINDING THIS TREASURE,
TAVROS: oR HELP YOU DO ARGUABLY EVIL THINGS TO GHOST FRIENDS, tO GET YOUR OBJECTIVES TO HAPPEN,
VRISKA: Tavros, what exactly are you trying to say?
TAVROS: i THINK, tHE BOTTOM LINE OF THAT, iS,
TAVROS: i DON'T WANT TO BE YOUR POOPMASTER ANYMORE,
TAVROS: sO i'M NOT GOING TO BE

TAVROS: fLY, pUPA,
TAVROS: fLYYYYY,
TAVROS: (heheHehE,)
TAVROS: (ehHHehehEheH, oH yEs,)
TAVROS: (heheHEHEHEhehEhEheh, so clEVEr,)
TAVROS: (how i refEreNCed, whaT wEre onCE, scoRNfUl remArKS dIreCtED at me, eheHahAHa!)
TAVROS: (hahAhehE, so sicK! sO sICk!!!!,)
VRISKA: WE CAN ALL HEAR YOU WH8SPERING FROM D8WN HERE SHIT F8R 8RAINS!!!!!!!!
SOLLUX: hey tavr0s, wait up, i think i'm c0ming with y0u.

>>78120063
The argument is how the story treats dave's abuse compared to tavros's

>His lack of appearance has zero impact on that.

Bro has been dead for 3 years during that time dave has had constant screen time. He has friends and family and the story has gone out of its way to keep dave and dirk from meeting until the very end.

Tavros was literally removed from the story after he told vriska to eat shit until she showed up again, and that was after vriska yelled at tavros and jake for being awful while she was surrounded by people that SHOULD have told her to fuck off.

>>78120063
>>78120135
>this guy thinks THAT's what "acknowledging abuse" means
i can feel my brain cells committing suicide one by one

>>78120159
>The argument is how the story treats dave's abuse compared to tavros's
There is no requirmenet for "equal treatement", just because there is mess text doesn't mean it's less important.

And you seem to have forgotten that Tavros's abus has led to the most important dynamic between Vriska, Aradia, Terezi and Damra. All of those are the consequence of how Vriska treated tavros.

>Bro has been dead for 3 years during that time dave has had constant screen time. He has friends and family and the story has gone out of its way to keep dave and dirk from meeting until the very end.

>Tavros was literally removed from the story after he told vriska to eat shit until she showed up again, and that was after vriska yelled at tavros and jake for being awful while she was surrounded by people that SHOULD have told her to fuck off.
And none of that make the fact that the abuse of Vriska toward Tavros was addressed less true. As a matter of fact, to make your point you seem tp purposely forget that the Tavros-Vriska dynamic has been an ongoing thing, brought out almost more than the Bro-Dave dynamic throughout the whole comic.

the tavros-Vriska dynamic is one of the biggest arc of the comic.

>>78120135
Look, I think there's a communication issue here. You seem to have a completely different definition of acknowledgement. Could you give it to us? If we can compare, maybe we'll be able to reach a conclusion.

>>78120179
Aradia took direct action against Vriska after she crippled Tavros, it was literally said that Vriska had gone too far.

Kanaya since then has several time prevented Vriska from starting again.

It was acknowledged and addressed.

>>78120018
>until nobody calls vriska's action abusive or draws attention to how it has been incredibly hurtful to tavros to the point of trauma, there is no acknowledgement. story events are not acknowledgement.
>>78120233
Vriska's bad action a-have been acknowledged from the start. It lead to an escaliting war that resulted in Aradia's death, Terezi's blindness and Vriska losing her arm and eye. All of this come from Vriska going too far with Tavros and Aradia deciding Vriska shouldn't get away with that.

The abuse of Vriska was acknowledged the trauma fully noticed and action was attempted to remedy this.

It was not perfect because Tavros was over-protected.

Thus the only thing missing was Tavros actually standing up for himself, which finally happened when he flipped Vriska off.

>>78120293
wanted to quote >>78120226

>>78120214

>There is no requirmenet for "equal treatement"

The dave-bro situation has been treated as a serious issue and a major part of dave's character development

tavros-vriska is constantly treated as a joke where tavros is the punchline, even the flip off is treated as joke and just jumps right to a boner joke when sollux feferi and nepeta take off.

>the tavros-Vriska dynamic is one of the biggest arc of the comic.

It doesn't need to be anymore. Dave's free, bro's long dead and he got to talk to multiple people about how he feels about the whole situation.

The conversations tavros has had about what vriska did usually are jokes at his expense or him talking about how he deserved what happened to him(or both). He's never got a conversation about what she did thats both played seriously and doesn't treat him like a silly joke.

>>78120379
>The dave-bro situation has been treated as a serious issue and a major part of dave's character development
>tavros-vriska is constantly treated as a joke where tavros is the punchline, even the flip off is treated as joke and just jumps right to a boner joke when sollux feferi and nepeta take off.
You say that as if tyhere was anything wrong with that.
>The conversations tavros has had about what vriska did usually are jokes at his expense
For TavorsSprite, yes, For Ghost Tavros, it has been at the expanse of Vriska.

>he's never got a conversation about what she did thats both played seriously and doesn't treat him like a silly joke.
Seriousness and joke aren't mutually exclusives.

the big difference between Fave-Bro and Vriska-Tavros is that Bro was an adult Dave looked up to, where as Tavros and Vriska are still both awkward teenagers who are still learning boundaries.

Your original point was that only Dave-bro was acknowledged. That isn't the case. So now you complain that Bro-Dave was taken more seriously.

Once again. Homestuck is a comic that can take silly joke and turn them into something serious, or take serious issues and turn them into something silly. What you miss is that it's still remains, nevertheless.

I am not even sure what you complain about, that not all issues are treated equally? what the fuck? If that was the case, it would be two time the same story with the same outcome and would be redundant. Instead we have tow different approach of similar case, which is far more interesting.

>>78120293
Oh my god. I can't believe I need to do this.
Characters taking action after Vriska did something bad to Tavros is not "acknowledging abuse".
Characters criticizing Vriska's extreme methods is not "acknowledging abuse".
Characters preventing Vriska from doing something bad is not "acknowledging abuse".
Characters seeking revenge for what Vriska has done is not "acknowledging abuse".
Tavros standing up to Vriska and leaving her is not "acknowledging abuse".

The characters have reacted to Vriska's actions, yes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. They all seemed to think all those thing Vriska did were bad. There have been panels about them putting plans into actions or insulting her or getting away from here.

But that is not the same as something being acknowledged in the story. Nobody, in the entire comic, seems to actually stop and go into details about how Vriska's actions resemble textbook abuse, or how they have mentally affected Tavros in the long run in the exact same way abuse does, etc. Not even by Tavros himself. There is no dialog where he realizes exactly how hurtful Vriska's influence has been on him (no, "wow, you're a jerk and I don't like you" does not count), no dialog where the trauma and realistic consequences are touched upon (him sleeping during the whole session, for example ; it's a real thing called cataconic depression), no part of the story where Vriska is actually confronted with the facts of what she has done in the long run and what it means, as opposed to "you hurt my friend".

This is what "acknowledgement" means. It's a verbal statement about how something specific has taken place - here, textbook abuse and its traumatic consequences.

All of these have happened with Dave. They have not happened with Tavros.

I don't know how to make this any clearer.

>>78120379
you seem to be willfully ignoring how many jokes were in Dave and Dirks conversations

>>78120533
>But that is not the same as something being acknowledged in the story. Nobody, in the entire comic, seems to actually stop and go into details about how Vriska's actions resemble textbook abuse, or how they have mentally affected Tavros in the long run in the exact same way abuse does, etc. Not even by Tavros himself. There is no dialog where he realizes exactly how hurtful Vriska's influence has been on him (no, "wow, you're a jerk and I don't like you" does not count), no dialog where the trauma and realistic consequences are touched upon (him sleeping during the whole session, for example ; it's a real thing called cataconic depression), no part of the story where Vriska is actually confronted with the facts of what she has done in the long run and what it means, as opposed to "you hurt my friend".
Except they do. And all of their action are due to the fact that they have acknowledged it.

>I don't know how to make this any clearer.
no the thing is, what you want is for it to be entirely spelled out and this is where you are wrong.

Something can be acknowledged without going as far as "yes, yes this is bad and terrible". Taking action over something is the direct consequence of acknowledgement.

By definition, you do not actually act to address an issue unless sit has been brought to you awareness in the first place.

>Characters taking action after Vriska did something bad to Tavros is not "acknowledging abuse".
It IS acknowledging abuse, otherwise, no action would be taken in the first place. Just because it's not spek out doesn't mean it's not acknowledged.

Action speak louder than words and all.

Not to mention. The troll knew that Tavros was being abused by Vriska. The fact that that Tavros could reach any Troll if Vriska ever bothered him to make her stop is proof that there was awareness.

>>78120453
First of all your arguing with more then one person

>You say that as if tyhere was anything wrong with that.
storywise
dave-bro bad
tavros-vriska funny

>For TavorsSprite, yes, For Ghost Tavros, it has been at the expanse of Vriska.

To quote the first conversation between tavros and vriska in the dream bubbles

TAVROS: nO, i MEAN, iT WAS PRETTY MUCH MY FAULT, i THINK,
TAVROS: i ATTACKED YOU WITH MY BOGUS SELF ESTEEM, aND i PAID THE ULTIMATE PRICE,
VRISKA: No, you idiot! That's not what happened at all. I sta88ed you through the chest 8ecause I was 8eing a huge 8itch!
TAVROS: i MEAN, iT WAS A LONG TIME AGO, bUT THAT'S NOT REALLY HOW i REMEMBER IT,
VRISKA: Ugh, stop 8eing so stupid. That's so stupid!
TAVROS: nO, yOU'RE STUPID,

Vriska then mind controls tavros to force him to do what she wants.

> it would be two time the same story with the same outcome and would be redundant.

How characters react and how the story plays out should be different. The problem is something like abuse shouldn't have some line drawn where some characters get it treated dead serious where others get it laughed off.

>>78120556
Drops in a bucket and they were never at dave's expense in a cruel way.

>>78120619
>storywise
>dave-bro bad
>tavros-vriska funny
No.
Story-wise:
Dave-bro Bad-funny
Tavors-Vriska funny bad
Both realtionship have been dealt with both humor and seriousness.

>To quote the first conversation between tavros and vriska in the dream bubbles
This was a conversation from before Ghost Tavros stood up for himself.

The whole point is that he has grown beyond that point.

>How characters react and how the story plays out should be different. The problem is something like abuse shouldn't have some line drawn where some characters get it treated dead serious where others get it laughed off.
You are correct,this is whay bot Tavros-Vriska and Bro-Dave get both trreated with humor AND seriousness.

Not to mention, the two relationship are of different sort. Bro was an acting parent for Dave and a figure he looked up too and he had no one to tell him how wrong Bro was treating him

At least, age wise Vriska and Tavros started on equal footing and Tavros had several friends to actually protect him from Vriska's bullshit.

>>78120608
>Except they do. And all of their action are due to the fact that they have acknowledged it.
Are you doing this on purpose?
First of all, you can not know a fictional character's implicit motivations. If Vriska's treatment of Tavros is known as abuse, it is only because we, the readers, are trained to recognize forms of abuse. Aradia, for example, is a fictional character with limited lines throughout the story. You can not discern her exact motivations and read her mind to know whether she thinks Vriska's treatment is abusive.
Even if you could, there would be no in-story acknowledgement. As long as there is no dialog or narration in the story that defines and frames what is actually happening between Tavros and Vriska as "abuse", there is no acknowledgement of abuse. Abuse is not an action like "shoving someone off a cliff", it's a pattern of behavior, and while the characters (such as Aradia) have had responses to Vriska's actions, they have not yet been shown to call it "abuse" or recognize it as an abuser's behavior.

You seem to fail to make a difference between "this happened and we readers can tell it, because if we think about it for long enough, we can conclude that this matches a real life definition" (Tavros/Vriska, Dave/Bro before the recent updates) and "this happened, and the story has gone out of its way to clarify that it matches a real life definition".

Remember how many people defended Bro's actions as normal or as not having impact on Dave? They have been completely discredited thanks to the recent updates.

What me and >>78120619 have been arguing about from the beginning is that we're frustrated that an explicit acknowledgement has been done about Dave and Bro's abuse, and not about other things such as Tavros/Vriska.

If you think fixing this would take away from the story, or that we're dumb for being angry about it, all the more power to you, but please don't mix it up with denying the differences in treatment.

>>78120722
>Both realtionship have been dealt with both humor and seriousness.

When bro was alive his abuse was treated the same as john getting hit with a cake, rose pretending to kill herself and jade being shrunk and riding a bullet.

After he died it stopped. Like a coming to a screeching halt stop. From there the only jokes about bro raising dave came about the weird awful shit he would do to him.(replacing his real food with fake while dave was trying to eat)

>The whole point is that he has grown beyond that point.
After tavros died his body was used a joke by terezi and then spent most of the comic still being a joke all the up to and including telling vriska to eat shit. His peter pan outfit, being pooplord and even his dance are treated as light hearted comedy were meant to laughed at even in the times its meant to be at vriska expense.

>At least, age wise Vriska and Tavros started on equal footing and Tavros had several friends to actually protect him from Vriska's bullshit.

They all abandoned him at points in the story. Kanya stopped helping him with vriska because quadrants, Aradia killing vriska only led to worse shit for tavros and they never really interacted after that and terezi treats his body as a play thing. After ending up in the dream bubbles he only really interacted with vriska and that doomed dave that got double killed.

>>78120935
A-fucking-men.
Calling this shit the same is downright ridiculous.

>>78120799
>Even if you could, there would be no in-story acknowledgement. As long as there is no dialog or narration in the story that defines and frames what is actually happening between Tavros and Vriska as "abuse", there is no acknowledgement of abuse.
You are completly wrong about it.

Yes there is room for interpretation, but if you really go as ffart as saying that Aradia taking action against Vriska after she crippled Tavros and all the Troll protecting Tavros from Vriska after waht she has done is not enough, then you are quite the dense one.

No, not everything need to be spelled out to be there.

>they have not yet been shown to call it "abuse" or recognize it as an abuser's behavior.
When one start to proectect someone from someone else after having hurting him, that the other is recognised as an abuser is the ONLY valid interpretation. if you do not recognise this, you are at a sperging level of nitpicking.

That you assume that other Aradia's action and the other troll making sure Vriska leave Tavros alone can still be seen as unrelated to Vriska's abuse is simply baffling. No, what you and the other desire is for it to be written inf full letter becuse somehow what we have got so far isn't enough for you to be satisfied, because somehow action mean nothing if it is not confirmed by dully notarial letter.

>If you think fixing this would take away from the story, or that we're dumb for being angry about it, all the more power to you, but please don't mix it up with denying the differences in treatment.
It wouldn't take away from the story, but I am simply stating that Vriska's abuse is just as acknowledged as Bro's abuse and doesn't need to be spelled out for it to be so.

And there is no difference in treatment. as a matter of fact, how Bro treated Dave was treated far much as a joke than the Tavros Vriska relationship.

>>78120935
>After he died it stopped. Like a coming to a screeching halt stop. From there the only jokes about bro raising dave came about the weird awful shit he would do to him.(replacing his real food with fake while dave was trying to eat)
Yes, after Bro was out of the story, there couldn't be more Bro-dave intrraction to make joke out of it. What's your point, there?
>After tavros died his body was used a joke by terezi and then spent most of the comic still being a joke all the up to and including telling vriska to eat shit. His peter pan outfit, being pooplord and even his dance are treated as light hearted comedy were meant to laughed at even in the times its meant to be at vriska expense.
Are you saying that only Tavros Corps was used as a propr for joke. almost all death are treated as silly thing. Bro's death being one of the rare exceptions.

>Aradia killing vriska only led to worse shit for tavros
Actually it finally resulted in a Trust where everyone agreed to stop messing with each other, that included Vriska letting Tavros alone. For a while, it was an improvement for tavros.
>After ending up in the dream bubbles he only really interacted with vriska and that doomed dave that got double killed.
Don't remember that part, can you describe more how the Tavros-Vriska thing lead to Dave being doomed?

>Tavrissprite will never humiliate Vriska
>the dreambubble ghosts aren't bullying Vriska and "haunting her"
>Vriska will never start self-loathing and turn into Karkat 2.0 BEFORE THE FUCKING LE FIGHT

What should happen in the story to redeem her? And no death bullshit, because Hussie insists on her being relevant and being the fourth chosen troll kid.

>>78121123
>>Vriska will never start self-loathing and turn into Karkat 2.0 BEFORE THE FUCKING LE FIGHT
13 years old Ghost Vriska has.

I want Vriska apologists to leave

>>78121123
What is the moral price for manipulating ghost into their death?

What if most of them seems to actually desire to cease to exist, even if their action of getting killed for good was not done on their own will?

>>78121201
No one here has been defending Vriska, though.

the whole debate is whether or not the other Trolls were aware she was a bad person that abused Tavros.

>>78121238
No, the debate is two (?) anons being angry about how it's not been explicitly said in the story, and one (?) anon denying that. Seems like everybody can agree that all trolls that aren't psychos can understand the awfulness of Vriska's behavior, even it they probably don't recognize it as abuse.

>>78121090
>there couldn't be more Bro-dave intrraction to make joke out of it. What's your point, there?

All the kids guardians died and that never stopped the story from cracking jokes about what weird things went on between them and the kids. With bro the jokes just completely stopped and the focus was on dave's emotional and physical well being.

>almost all death are treated as silly thing.
During the course of the story everything from rape to genocide has been treated as a joke except for daves abuse that was treated completely serious after bro's death.

>For a while, it was an improvement for tavros.
I'm talking about the immediate vriska trying to get tavros to kill her so she can godtier. He was straight up crying during the whole thing.

>Tavros-Vriska thing lead to Dave being doomed?
I'm talking about the doomed dave tavros befriended after he died that was later double killed by english during caliborn enter.

>>78121002
Geeze, coming from someone who won't take a minute to proof-read his posts, being called dense sure hurts my feelings.

Let's pretend we're still being civil here. Look at it this way: if Dave had not talked about Bro's abuse to Dirk, there would have been no acknowledgement of abuse in Homestuck at all, because character reactions to something =/= acknowledgement as to the nature of said thing.

Acknowledgement is exactly that - written text that says "hey, this was a thing! It happened!", not in-story events that depict the characters having reactions to the thing.

>>78121123
Ideally this should happen to both Vriskas: She should stay in the sidelines and work on building her self-esteem from nothing. If she can stop hurting people and dangerously inserting herself into plot shit in order to pretend to feel good about herself, then it'll be a good conclusion to her character arc.
If you really want her to involve herself (e.g. using her powers for good), she should do it under the guidance of somebody who actually knows what they're doing, such as Dirk.
Of course that probably won't happen with alive Vriska, but she's well past redemption or any kind of character development at this point, so I don't see any way other than her getting DDAOOTS.

>>78121320
>With bro the jokes just completely stopped and the focus was on dave's emotional and physical well being.
>except for daves abuse that was treated completely serious after bro's death.
Except, no.

Even in Dave's convo with Dirk, what Bro death was still expressed with an humorous twist. Dark humorous twist, but so was it for thing such as rape and genocide too.
>I'm talking about the immediate vriska trying to get tavros to kill her so she can godtier. He was straight up crying during the whole thing.
Yes and how does that furhter your point? are you saying that if the Troll had done nothing about Vriska and Tavros, that wouldn't have happened?
>I'm talking about the doomed dave tavros befriended after he died that was later double killed by english during caliborn enter.
Okay, I see which dave you are talking about. but I don't see how Tavors or Vriska cause Felt Dave's double death. it would have happened no matter what.

>>78121334
>Geeze, coming from someone who won't take a minute to proof-read his posts, being called dense sure hurts my feelings.
-I call someone dense
-I don't proof read
I am not trying to defend my poor writing skill, but how are the two connected?

>if Dave had not talked about Bro's abuse to Dirk, there would have been no acknowledgement of abuse in Homestuck at all
Not exactly, what would have happened is that the reader wouldn't have been sure Dave was aware it was actually abuse, because the story had actually made a point to always portray how Dave related to his Bro ambiguously. This convo was needed to actually make clear that how dave Resent his brother isn't ambiguous any more.

In comparison with Tavros Vriska, where it has always been clear that Tavros ressented the abuse and the only thing the readrr was still waiting for was for when Tavors would actually grew a spine and finally tell Vriska to fuck off, which actually happened.

In both case, there has been acknowledgement of abuse. In Dave case it neede to be spelled out more because there was actual more ambiguity about whether or not it was acknowledged.

>t - written text that says "hey, this was a thing! It happened!", not in-story events that depict the characters having reactions to the thing.
It does not have to be written text when the action speaks for themselves.
Dave-Bro needed written text, Vriska-Tavros didn't because everything is already clear on its own.

>>78121393
>an humorous twist. Dark humorous twist
but tavros's abuse is treated with light hearted humor mostly at his expense(peter pan outfit, pooplord, dancing) the humor post bro death was treated as something that caused dave mental and physical pain.

>Yes and how does that furhter your point?
You said tavros had friends helping him with vriska. I said that aradia beating vriska almost to death(for what she did to her and tavros) caused more pain and suffering to tavros.

>but I don't see how Tavors or Vriska cause Felt Dave's double death
Nothing. I just said the only person tavros spent any major time with in the bubbles was that doomed dave and vriska. Dave has the other betas and the meteor gang as friends and family but the person tavros had had time to spend with is the person who abuses him.

>>78121334
>past redemption
Because she bullied (Vriska) who everyone views her as lawful good and "dindu nuffin"?

>>78106754
Why do we need to fix her? She's supposed to be like that. Even all the other character remark on how boring she is. Her entire role in the story is to be the team MOM, and those characters are coded maternally uninteresting by default.

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>>78118786
they're gods

and all immortal, not to mention related you know

so they should all fuck sooner or later

>>78121527
>but tavros's abuse is treated with light hearted humor mostly at his expense(peter pan outfit, pooplord, dancing)
Point of view. i have never considered Tavros abuse as light hearted.
>dancing.
Dancing is great because it's actually vitory. It's a joke made at the expanse of Vriska.

>You said tavros had friends helping him with vriska. I said that aradia beating vriska almost to death(for what she did to her and tavros) caused more pain and suffering to tavros.
Mixing things up a bit, there. Aradia beat up Vriska because Vriska had killed her (using Sollux). Wha Aradia did for tavros was haunting Vriska and for a while it resulted in tavros being given some slack. of cours it all went void once they entered the game, putting the truce to an end.

>Nothing. I just said the only person tavros spent any major time with in the bubbles was that doomed dave and vriska.
We actually don't know that. As a matter of fact, what we actually know is that Ghost Tavros and Ghost Vriska only started being together after Tavriskasprite exploded. and after they went on a quest they were soon joined by all the other on the pirate ship.

Based on what we have seen of the comic, Tavros has spend as much time with Felt Dave than with Aradia. And Aradia now looking over the dream bubbles, she might have spent some time with Tavros too, in a not-seen in the comic way.

But the time Taros and Vriska are alone in the Dream bulbble is actually smaller than the time he ad vriska are with a bunch of friend.

>>78121238
They did know it, but you're seeing it through a human lense. From a Troll perspective as she stated Vriska wasn't "Abusing him" so much as asserting her natural right to dominate and blueblood all over him. The other trolls, raised on Alternia and indoctrinated/inducted into the ways of the hemospectum as it is probably saw that kind of thing all the time that their society had codified as 'normal'.

Vriska explicitly states this in her long conversation with John.

We see other instances of it, like with how Nepeta just accepts her shitty treatment by Equius and Eridan sees it as his right to kill and suppress land dwellers. It's not "abuse" to them but viewed, seen and treated differently.

Kinda like how thousands of years ago the word "Domestic abuse" didn't really exist in families. There are multiple lines in the Koran and Bible describing, and even encouraging how to beat your wife into submission, and like those ancient people the trolls just don't see it as abnormal, what you consider "Abuse."

So of course they were aware of her actions. And that she was a bad person. They just couldn't give a meaningful HUMAN reaction to our context.

Even Kanaya, the most mild mannered of the trolls saw nothing wrong with CHAINSAWING OFF TAVROS'S LEGS. That's how Troll people work. They're batshit crazy like that, sans Karkat.

>>78082666
Thanks for clarifying that, satan

>>78121678
> i have never considered Tavros abuse as light hearted.
hearts boxcar telling him to kiss vriska, terezi playing with his body(after he was killed) being called poop master/lord

>dancing
He's still dressed as peter pan dancing at the person who broke his spine and killed him(can you imagine dave dancing at bro)

>Dreambubble
My point is the story focused on tavros in the bubbles when he was with dave and vriska but aradia's story continued on without him.

Look I need sleep but this has been fun, heres all my posts

>>78119733>>78119891>>78120013>>78120159>>78120379>>78120619>>78120935>>78121320

My argument is abuse is handled way differently for some characters then others

dave-bro is treated serious but

tavros-vriska
jake-dirk
damara-meenah
handmaid-scratch
etc are usually treated as jokes mostly at the expence of the one who was abused

>>78121502
They aren't really connected, it was just me being a jerk back. It's hard to read your posts sometimes with the typos, but no big deal.

Anyway, nah, that convo's point wasn't just to make Dave's feelings explicit, in my opinion - it really said, in pretty obvious "wham" ways, that Bro's behavior was not only /not okay/, but that it also /fucked him up/, and if you think we've had that with Tavros, then you're clearly reading some other comic.
See:
>In comparison with Tavros Vriska, where it has always been clear that Tavros resented the abuse
In what universe? Most of the time he's sad and occasionally makes some small jab at how she's treating him badly, but that's about it. He doesn't call it abuse or tell her it's actually affected him.

That's what we want, man. The actions don't actually make anything final, of course Tavros and his friends respond to Vriska's behavior, but there's absolutely nothing that frames it, retrospectively, into its context as something that had long-term, very negative effects on Tavros, much like the Dave/Dirk convo did.

Hopefully you can understand why people would want a convo where Tavros says "woah, this has actually hurt me and was not ok" instead of dissing Vriska to her face for being mean while he compliments her at the same time.

If you can't understand, well, okay, it's probably best that we stop here.

>>78121564
Where are you getting this from? (Vriska) is still sort of a major asshole who's crying over her own flaws instead of apologizing to people she's hurt, but that's got nothing to do with alive Vriska gaining additional jerk points for bullying her.

>>78121832
>They did know it, but you're seeing it through a human lense. From a Troll perspective as she stated Vriska wasn't "Abusing him" so much as asserting her natural right to dominate and blueblood all over him. The other trolls, raised on Alternia and indoctrinated/inducted into the ways of the hemospectum as it is probably saw that kind of thing all the time that their society had codified as 'normal'.
It(s also clear they don't really buy itnot he Alternia indoctrination stuff. Terei defied Vriska enough time to prove that. As for Nepeta, she actually don't buy it either and mock Equius whenhe try to teach her about the bloodcast.

Everyone see eridan's plan as twisted and stupid and Feferi make a point of preventing him from enacting it.

>They just couldn't give a meaningful HUMAN reaction to our context.
Aradia got back at Vriska for what she did and after Vriska killed back Aradia for that Terezi decided to get back on her for that too. they didn't give a fuck about bloodcast. then it ended up with Terezi turning Blind and Vriska losing eye and arm and everyone agreeing on a truce and Tavors being able to ask for help everytime Vriska would try to bully him again.

>Even Kanaya, the most mild mannered of the trolls saw nothing wrong with CHAINSAWING OFF TAVROS'S LEGS.
To give him his ability to walk again. She could have asked for permission, that doesn't change the fact that everyone agreed that Vriska had gone too far.

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>>78122048
>posting that in a HS thread

>>78121923
Hey anon, just wanted to say it was cool to be on the same side. Glad to see there are people who can tell apart serious and silly narrative framing.

>can you imagine dave dancing at bro
That's what I'd call the winning argument, if the concept of "winning" conversation wasn't absolutely stupid.
Dave dancing in front of Bro to rub his success in his nose would be just as contextually demeaning as what's happening with Tavros (who also calls Vriska a cunning winner in the same breath).
Not to mention it's still proof of Tavros believing he's only worth anything if he's "useful", therefore there's some additional implied fucked up shit that really, really makes this different from just a light-hearted acknowledgement of, well, anything at all. (Since, y'know, nothing here was acknowledged.)

>>78122008
Yeah, this. Trolls seem to recognize Vriska's actions as bad.
(The point though is that they/the story doesn't necessarily frame it as abuse.)

>>78121923
>hearts boxcar telling him to kiss vriska, terezi playing with his body(after he was killed) being called poop master/lord
All of theis is clearly dark humor. Not light hearted one. And every terrible moment in homestuck get dark humor.

>He's still dressed as peter pan dancing at the person who broke his spine and killed him(can you imagine dave dancing at bro)
He chose to be dressed like that. It was his Flarping dress from his favorite class. why wouldn't he dress like that?
He dance because he just broke her conception of reality and is showing her off.

>My point is the story focused on tavros in the bubbles when he was with dave and vriska but aradia's story continued on without him.
There has ben much more focus on Tavros than arzadia. And, on screen, he spent as much time with Felt Dave than with Aradia.

>My argument is abuse is handled way differently for some characters then others
Different situation, different treatment, none of that make it "unfair" or whatever.

Dave-Bro is treated with the same amount of Dark humor as the other relationship, though.

The only differnce is that Dave-Bro situation is more spelled out because it has more ambiguousness and thus need to be more spelled out.

Not to mention, there is nothing Dave can do to get back at Bro because he is DAOOTS, so stuff have to be expressed in words. In comparison to Vriska who is still active and therefor Tavors can get back to. and he did.

>jake-dirk
IT's more awkward teenage romance that never stood a chance than abuse. Dirk became to clingy so Jake took his distance from a relationship he was never into in the first place.
>damara-meenah
>handmaid-scratch
They are meant to be tragic figure who got unfair tretment and got a bad hand. Handmaid became a slave and Damarah and meenah got into a viscious circle where each tried to become worqt than the other.

Not everyone get to have an happy ending.

Mind you, I don't think the Damarah-Meenah arc is over either.

>>78122008
Not buying into something =/= being immune to the culture conditioning of the time. Even if you didn't "buy into" racism in the 1800's and called bullshit on slavery and racial superiority, you weren't going to have the forward thinking that we do. Something like "Black lives matter" or seeing subtle injustice (beyond the obvious, like racism) would be next to impossible. So while Vriska's behavior as a whole was known wrong, it's not like they ever had the distinction to sit her down, point out each and every abuse and judge her accordingly.

This is painfully obvious in the scene where she nearly rapes Tavros with Kanaya watching. Even though Kan sees something she "knows" is wrong, she can only think about how the situation applies to her, that her crush is lost to her.

Never does she address it later in the story.It's because even something like rape or abuse IMO wouldn't be highlighted as wrong, not especially to a species that routinely enslaves others.

Later in Mindfang's journal she doesn't state that anyone was that appalled by her raping Alternia!Porrim.

>Everyone see eridan's plan as twisted and stupid and Feferi make a point of preventing him from enacting it.
She still put up with his genocidal rhetoric for the most part, up until she could split away from him.

>Aradia got back at Vriska for what she did and after Vriska killed back Aradia for that Terezi decided to get back on her for that too.
Yeah but those were contextualized in BLACKROM.

That's completely different from the concept of Abuse. A troll has the right to seek revenge on an attacker and start some kind of feud. A feud. It's entirely different than our concept of injustice, and wasn't seen as "Abuse", just a normal part of troll society where the 'victim' was expected to get back at their harasser.

>To give him his ability to walk again.
The point is it was violent and crazy still.


>agreed that Vriska had gone too far.
On the whole, yes.
In specific instances? Rarely.

>>78122222
>Dave-Bro is treated with the same amount of Dark humor as the other relationship, though.
>The only differnce is that Dave-Bro situation is more spelled out because it has more ambiguousness and thus need to be more spelled out.
>Not to mention, there is nothing Dave can do to get back at Bro because he is DAOOTS, so stuff have to be expressed in words. In comparison to Vriska who is still active and therefor Tavors can get back to. and he did.

Honestly, when you look at the tone and seeming intention of the author both Vriska's guilt and Dave's are similar.

Vriska confesses to John for a bit she felt bad about abusing Tavros.
Dave confesses to Dirk for a bit he felt bad about Bro abusing him.

And for the time being, in that moment atleast, it's not played for laughs. The fully intended effect is to draw the audience sympathies, and it's treated dead serious.

However that doesn't mean once it's referenced and referred to later, it'll always be that way. Why cannot people accept that events and concepts in Homestuck can be treated different ways, depending on the context?

We got a hammy speech from Dave about child-abuse. For all we know the next time it's brought up, he might make it into a huge joke and the whole speech was setting us up for a gag. It doesn't "undo" the severity of it at the time, but gives it more dimension.

Humor and drama aren't even mutually exclusive.

>>78121984
>- it really said, in pretty obvious "wham" ways, that Bro's behavior was not only /not okay/, but that it also /fucked him up/, and if you think we've had that with Tavros, then you're clearly reading some other comic.
It has been clear for a while for a lot of reader that what Bro was doing was not okay. the only thing left to wondering waas if Dave was aware of it. that convo made that cear. It also mae Dave open-up.

>In what universe? Most of the time he's sad and occasionally makes some small jab at how she's treating him badly, but that's about it. He doesn't call it abuse or tell her it's actually affected him.
He has czalled out for her bullshit he has actually provved her worng and and has quit being his toyboy. You actually got what you wanted. You are only complaining that it hasn't been spelled out, but it's not really need for it to be already clear.

Everyone know Vriska is a bad person who abused Tavros, Tavors stopped that bullshit and got back at her.

>while he compliments her at the same time.
He did not. It was 100% Tavros showing off Vriska.
> instead of apologizing to people she's hurt
There is actually a whole small arc in Act 5 Act 1 where she try to make amend for her actions, by providing a new body for Aradia (actually made Equius do it). not much, but she has already tired.

>>78122229
>Not buying into something =/= being immune to the culture conditioning of the time.
This is beside the point. Immune or not they clearly saw Vriska's action as abuse and it was shwocased as such. Mayybe they wouldn't care if Tavros wasn't their firend, that would work in the framework you are depicting, but as Tavros is their friend, Rustblood or not, they actually see it as abuse and they do not see bloodcast as a valid excuse at all.
>This is painfully obvious in the scene where she nearly rapes Tavros with Kanaya watching. Even though Kan sees something she "knows" is wrong, she can only think about how the situation applies to her, that her crush is lost to her.
This is a partucular case where her love interst show love for someone else, even by modenr standard, you tend to lose your moral frame.

>Later in Mindfang's journal she doesn't state that anyone was that appalled by her raping Alternia!Porrim.
Wait, did anyone outside of Vriska actually read that journal? I don't think Kanaya ever read it.
>She still put up with his genocidal rhetoric for the most part, up until she could split away from him.
She was his moirail. they work the violent vibe out of mellowing it away, not being confrontational.
>Yeah but those were contextualized in BLACKROM.
Uh? as there been any explicit blackrom between Aradia and Vriska? I think it was just a bad escalation.

>The point is it was violent and crazy still.
Yeahn Troll are a violent species, they still acknowledged what Vriska did as abuse, though.

>>78122375
>It has been clear for a while for a lot of reader that what Bro was doing was not okay.
[citation needed]
Do I need to link you to the shitload of "bro wasn't abusive" posts that dated from before this part?

>He has czalled out for her bullshit
Nah, he's just made a few jabs at her and that's all, her bullshit hasn't been addressed in details or in a serious way.

>he has actually provved her worng
In a way, but in another way he's defining himself based on what SHE thinks makes a person's worth. If Tavros is worth nothing if he can't build a ghost army, then that's a validation of Vriska's mindset.

>and and has quit being his toyboy.
Even if that's true, it doesn't really change anything, you know? If the victim's left the abuser (or the abuser's dead in Dave's case), or the victim insults the abuser, or the victim "proves" that he's useful according to the abuser's beliefs, it changes absolutely nothing about the fact the past behavior was abuse and had long-term effects on the victim, which the story still hasn't touched upon much. (For the umpteenth time, no, insults or Tavros "winning" or whatever the fuck the characters do has nothing to do with acknowledgement of abuse.)

>You actually got what you wanted. You are only complaining that it hasn't been spelled out, but it's not really need for it to be already clear.
Is it? Because I still have run-ins with idiots who consider Vriska's behavior not abuse; strangely, on the other hand, the amount of nutjobs who believe bro did nothing wrong has been steadily decreasing since that update, from personal experience.

>Everyone know Vriska is a bad person who abused Tavros
[citation needed]
A lot of readers still deny this, if you're talking about the fanbase. (If you're talking about the characters, then maybe, but they aren't doing shit about it or saying it, if that's the case).

>He did not. It was 100% Tavros showing off Vriska.
Read the fucking page again.

>Karkat should lead the ghost army
How? He needs to deal with Vriska and Meenah.
And he is going to cry like a bitch anyway when Vriska bullies him.

Also I just realized how Vriska always talks bullshit.

>assumes that Kanaya had a crush on Tavros
>claims how cute Karkat and Terezi are as a married couple
>makes the same claim with Karkat and Dave
>assumes that Spades Slick and the Felt are a joke and that Jake can handle them
>claims how she doesn't have time for romance and that she is good as a palemate (proceeds to get a crush on Meenah, uses Terezi as her henchman)
>GTAVsprite not going to backfire
>(Vriska) thinking she learned her lesson for being herself and then get btfo'd by Hussie
And many more I forgot to list. It's like everything she says will happen the opposite way.

>>78122768
>Do I need to link you to the shitload of "bro wasn't abusive" posts that dated from before this part?
Those exist precisely because many were voicing out how abusive Bro was.
>Nah, he's just made a few jabs at her and that's all, her bullshit hasn't been addressed in details or in a serious way.
He was very serious when he flipped her off and leave. It might have come out as funny, and it was the intend, but it was also a very serious moment too.
> but in another way he's defining himself based on what SHE thinks makes a person's worth
That is up to interpretation. He might have simply done what he did because LE need to be defeated regardless of Vriska and he actually did what he thought WAS right.. showing off Vriska might just have been a a side bonus. But it is indeed unlcear. he might have done it solely to outplay Vriska, but this isn't what I am getting from the comic.
It's worth noting that he managed to do it without manipulating them, thus making something Vriska would never have been able to.
> If the victim's left the abuser (or the abuser's dead in Dave's case), or the victim insults the abuser
It means they are acting instead of just being the victim.

What is interesting about Tavros's comeback is that when he confront Vriska again he does it in such a way that it's now impossible for her to abuse him again. He did not just flee, he actually resolved the cause of why he was being abused. This is not being confrontational with words, but this is still being confrontational with action. Like I have said many time, just because it's not fully expressed doesn't mean it's not addressed. The story touch it through action, not words.

>strangely, on the other hand, the amount of nutjobs who believe bro did nothing wrong has been steadily decreasing since that update, from personal experience.
Some people actually need things to be spelled out otherwise they will go nuhu, despite the obvious.

>>78122768
>>Everyone know Vriska is a bad person who abused Tavros
Act 5 ACt 1. Most hate Vriska (especially the low blood) and call her out for the bullshit she had done in the past.
>Read the fucking page again.
I did:
TAVROS: SUUUUUCK,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
TAVROS: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!

And then he goes to argue about economic with Meenah and never pay attention to Vriska again.

>>78122545
It's relevant, and you're missing the point.
When you see something as "Abuse", you see it as a very specific thing that is happening. The same thing with sexism or racism, ect.
When you merely see something as "wrong" but cannot identify the contours that define what that thing is, the details and specifics don't jump out at you. And I'm inclined to believe if Tavros could fight back and incite a Blackrom with Vriska, none of them would even see it as anything close to abuse.
>Rustblood or not, they actually see it as abuse and they do not see bloodcast as a valid excuse at all.
Seeing her actions as wrong =/= seeing it as abuse. They just saw her as a violent overbearing, possibly abusive person, her, person-specific. That doesn't mean they could identify the actions and events as abuse.

>you tend to lose your moral frame
Or the moral frame to identify abuse just doesn't exist at all.

>you tend to lose your moral frame
The point is there's little taboo against rape or abuse on alternia. It's a darwinian nightmare.
>She was his moirail.
And that's why she tolerated his behavior. Because Hemospectrum Caste system+Quandrants define troll interactions, not empathy vs abuse, ect. Those are foreign concepts to trolls.

>as there been any explicit blackrom between Aradia and Vriska?
Vriska stated they'd had a feud and than swiftly resolved it after each getting payback. That's like a one-night blackrom-stand.

>Yeahn Troll are a violent species, they still acknowledged what Vriska did as abuse, though.
They acknowledged what she did was wrong and is a horrible person. They couldn't pin it on abuse as we'd think of it however.
Anymore than a blind person can identify and acknowledge 'racism' when they hear the shouts of a minority beaten down by a white cop. They know somethings wrong, but the specific concept of racism isn't available to their frame of reference, anymore than abuse is to the trolls. It's just kinda seen as more terrible violence.

>>78123439
And my argument overall has to do with why they couldn't react to it or call her out, other than say "Yeah she's a horrible person I guess", or that they really didn't like her.

The only one to ever start listing her misdeeds and go after them was Terezi.

>>78122768
>Do I need to link you to the shitload of "bro wasn't abusive" posts that dated from before this part?
There was no point in calling sequences played for laughs 'abuse' if your interpretation is always something that causes trauma, tbqh

>>78123439
>When you see something as "Abuse", you see it as a very specific thing that is happening. The same thing with sexism or racism, ect.
>When you merely see something as "wrong" but cannot identify the contours that define what that thing is, the details and specifics don't jump out at you
But that's the thing. The troll actually saw pretty clearly what wrong Vriska was doing.
>Or the moral frame to identify abuse just doesn't exist at all.
Kanaya had called out Vriska for her bullshit clearly before that. She clealry lost her shit because she got a broken heart.
>And that's why she tolerated his behavior.
She did more than tolerate it. she actually actively worked to make this kind of behavior stop. this is what moirail do. this has nothing to do with hemosprctrum.

>Vriska stated they'd had a feud and than swiftly resolved it after each getting payback. That's like a one-night blackrom-stand.
I think it was more or a genuine non-sexual feud.

>They couldn't pin it on abuse as we'd think of it however.
They did. abusing Tavros was one of the bullshit they made her stop. the other being feeding random trolls to her lusus, wh was an other bad issue that was clearly defined.

File: 1444688276023.png (9KB, 450x400px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 450x400px

JESUS FUCK SHUT THE FUCK UP WHY DO YOU KEEP WRITING WALLS OF TEXT

>>78091240
Shit

>>78096215
I disagree. from most boring to least boring:

post gigapause vriska, all versions
the grass on LoCaF
the gigapause itself
dancestors
Nepeta
feferi
eridan
Sollux
Aradia, Tavros, Equius, gamzee,
calliope & caliborn
jane
jake
jade
kanaya
dirk
john
rose
vriska-cola classic
scratch
terezi
karkat
dave

>>78124614
>dave
>not boring post gigapause
>generic abused gay kid

>>78124664
yeah that's true, but all the characters are less interesting after the gigapause.

It's just that post-gigapause Vriska made me less interested in the whole comic, which makes her the absolute pinnacle.

>>78124759
>findng Vriska boring
Jesus fuck.

I found the whole meteor crew boring without Vriska pre-retcon.
Maybe Karkat was an exception, but he remained a kuck and Dave's buttmonkey.

>>78124853
>hussie renamed his twitter handle
>it's GWLC UCK now

>>78088254
Honestly I've not had a problem with anything I've kickstarted so far, it's really up to the backers to do their research as to whether the creators are trustworthy enough and competent enough to fulfill their promises.

>>78124614
>kanaya more interesting than jane

yeah, no

>>78119120
Gamzee on Terezi was not abuse, really. She approached him.

>>78124614
What about Roxy?

>>78124759
IMO Act 5 Vriska was fascinating, especially since at the time people were having interesting talks about her. Now all sides of the conversation are rehashing the same tired old arguments, and Vriska remained so static a character that she lost all sort of freshness.
People seem to hate Vriska at first and learn to love her, but for me it was the other way around. Who wouldn't come to hate novel food if they had to eat it every single day from then on?

>>78126504
I've always liked her, she's an amusing asshole