Why is Marvel so consistently uninteresting? Why don't

Born Again, Kraven's Last Hunt, Requiem, Man Without Fear, Man-Thing, Punisher MAX, ASM: If This Be My Destiny, Phoenix Saga and Secret Wars are better than anything DC ever produced though.

>>77984647
Hilarious.

>>77984647
people WILL reply seriously to this post

>>77984501

Most of the good writers have worked for DC for the past 30 years.

It's not a hard and fast rule, but generally Marvel produces better ongoing series, while DC produces better self-contained stories.

There's a reason recommended reading for Batman and Superman is described in individual stories while Daredevil and Spider-man is described in runs.

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>>77984501
>Why is Marvel so consistently uninteresting?

Because you're no longer their target demographic. You're old and don't buy enough comics.

>Why don't they have (almost) anything as good as Watchmen, All-Star Superman, Secret Identity, The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns, Batman: Year One, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Sandman, etc...

Most of those are written by Alan Moore, Frank Miller in his prime, Neil Gaimain, Grant Morrison, etc. DC benefited immensely from the British invasion of comics and Vertigo as well.

Miller's Daredevil work with Marvel is nearly as strong, if less iconic. Marvel also owns Miracleman now. They haven't historically been able to achieve the level of popculture familiarity Superman and Batman have.

>Why do all of their events pale in comparison to The Crisis trilogy + The Multiversity?

wut, the Crisis's are mostly crap. Multiversity was really good, but that's again the work of Grant Morrison.

>Why don't they have their own Grant Morrison tier authors?

They focus on a different audience.

>>77984717
Eh... I kind of agree, but GM's bat epic trumps almost any other ongoing story.

>>77984717
Even that isn't true. DC has tons of good runs going way back to the golden age.

>>77984647
Requiem, Secret Wars, Phoenix Saga, and Kraven's Last Hunt are all grossly overrated.

You should have mentioned Squadron Supreme, Earth-X, Death of Captain Marvel, Miracleman, Moore's Captain Britain, Howard the Duck and Marvels.

>>77984765
>GM's bat epic trumps almost any other ongoing story
The Bat-Epic isn't even one of Morrison's Top 5 ongoing stories at DC.

>>77984823
kill yourself

also, what 5 are better than that?
Animal Man, Doom Patrol... And what else?

>>77984781
Also I think Parable, Runaways, God Loves Man Kills should be mentioned in that same vein.
Other than that, most of the really good marvel stuff is in runs rather than contained stories or graphic novels. You can look at Brubaker's Captain America, Waid's Daredevil, Byrne X-Men, etc. Even when Morrison did X-Men, that was a run and not a single story.

Just a difference in how they tell stories, really.

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>>77984778
>DC has tons of good runs going way back to the golden age.

There's also a lot of bad.

Objectively though, it's a difference in priorities.

DC historically went with more tried and true superheroes, Marvel, with Lee & Kirby in particular, were will to reinvent.

The majority of extraneous DC characters have mystical or magical origins, almost everything from Marvel is scifi with a few notable exceptions.

>>77984778
Of course. And Marvel also has their share of great self-contained minis, graphic novels, and limited series. The Marvel Original Graphic Novel is filled with plenty of great one-off stories that are often overlooked and Epic at its peak was a proto-Vertigo. Epic Illustrated was a fantastic anthology series.

But that's the point. Marvel's self-contained stories and limited series are often ignored for their runs. DC's runs are often ignored for their self-contained stories and limited series. Those are the perceptions a lot of people have despite not being true.

>>77984881
Oh I forgot to add God Loves Man Kills

OP sounds like you just like Alan Moore and Grant Morrison you fucking casual.

>>77984781
>Kraven's Last Hunt [...] grossly overrated.
>should have mentioned Earth-X

Let's not kid ourselves, X is not a well told story.

>>77984932
nice refutation and ad hominem bud

>>77984853
Animal Man, Doom Patrol, JLA, The Invisibles, and (I guess this one might be cheating) 52.

>>77984941
Earth X is great. The sequels are garbage though.

>>77984925
I think it's the best X-Men book, but it never seems to get that much credit.

>>77984823
Hell, the Bat-Epic isn't even the best Batman ongoing either. O'Neil's has it beat.

>>77984962
Just naming five GM runs doesn't make them better than the bat epic.

JLA, 52, and The Invisibles definitely aren't.

Y'know, we can argue ad infinitum about which company is actually better, but can we at least all agree that between Vertigo, Wildstorm and Milestone, DC had by far the superior imprints?

>>77985047
I'll cosign that

>>77984980
I equally love both Phoenix Saga and God Loves Man Kills. There's a reason why X books dominated the 80's.

>>77985047
I'll take Epic, Malibu, and UK over them any day of the week. Come at me, nigga.

>>77984717
this so hard

>>77985128
lewd

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>>77985047
Well if we're moving away from the mainline, why don't we just acknowledge that it's pointless to argue whether Marvel>DC or DC>Marvel, because both of them are inferior to their competitors (such as Image and Dark Horse and Fantagraphics and Drawn & Quarterly).

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>>77985155
>lewd

Who do you think handles sex better: DC or Marvel?

>>77985261
>Marvel or DC doing sex well.
HA.

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>>77985234
>current Image
>superior

C'mon now bro, you almost had me biting.

>>77985047
>Wildstorm
What Wildstorm is actually worth reading? Warren Ellis' shit and Ex Machina?

>>77985336
>What Wildstorm is actually worth reading?

The Secret History of the Authority: Jack Hawksmoor, despite the wordsalad title, is a fantastic little gem.

>>77985234
bait used to mean something

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>DC event
Changes comic history
>Marvel event
Written to shill toys

>>77984881
> The Runaways
No

>>77984501
FF 1-102
Thor 120(ish)-179
Are loaded with good stories and introduce dozens of awesome characters and concepts.

>>77985047
Epic at it's peak was the best imprint. Sadly it died and Marvel no longer has an editor like Archie Goodwin

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>>77984501

>all I read is DC, why isn't Marvel exactly like DC

>>77985629
"All I read is DC, why isn't Marvel exactly like DC?"
- Johnathan Hickman

Marvel used to be the cool company in the industry. The charisma of Stan The Man and the characters attracted the attention of people like Walt Simonson, Steve Gerber, Jim Starlin, Archie Goodwin, and a ton of others talented and creative writers, artists, editors.

Now there are a variety of places for comics people to go, plus they have all these stories form their comic heroes about working at Marvel or DC. Marvel is a jumping off point for people to build up their name then go indie or for " fan writers' who just want to play with their favorite toys and have no real creative ambition

>>77985953

And now DC is a fucking mess, slave to whatever corporate suit decides needs a comic tie-in to an upcoming movie.

>>77986091
t. new number 1 every week company

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>>77984647

>This guy

bump for discussion

>>77984881
days of future past should be there as well

>>77984501
you should read the things that morrison and moore and british authors have written for marvel since that's what you like the most from DC

>>77984647
LOL go to bed Stan, youre drunk

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>It's another "Why I don't like Marvel" threat

>>77988120
There are two types of /co/mrades. Those that like Marvel and are therefore shills, and those that hate Marvel and won't stop telling you how much they hate Marvel because hating Marvel is the closest they'll ever come to caring about comics.

>>77985842
>mfw everything Hickman wrote for Marvel is critically acclaimed, and liked by fans (Secret Wars being more divisive, but still better than 90% of Marvel's events this decade). Hickman works on creating large stories that are respectful of continuity but aren't dragged down by it, works on developing the wider world, universe, and inserts ambitious meta-plots
>mfw everything by Bendis is utter shit, and elicits wildly divergent responses from fans and critics (falling everywhere on the best-worst spectrum, depending on who you ask). Actively negates continuity, focused on characters at the expense of plot or planning (which wouldn't be that bad if he didn't mis-characterize everyone not called Spider-Man).

>Marvel bets its future on Bendis

Literally why.

>>77988632
>this mad

>>77988922
Bendis is a proven money maker. I don't really know much about opinion of Hickman outside of this site but tons of people love Bendis.

>>77984501
>The Multiversity
Even Secret Wars is better than that

Multiversity was good but not as good as people were making it out to be

>>77984501
Most of what you named are limited series, in many cases out of continuity series. Marvel doesn't do those very well.

What Marvel has been built on since the '60s is the "Marvel Universe," meaning the way all the stories fit together, which means that the most memorable things tend to be multi-year runs that build up the continuity and character development.

There's no 6 issues you can take out of a great Marvel run and say "here, read this and get the full effect." You only get the full effect if you read years' worth of comics. So something like "The Dark Phoenix Saga" is a whole bunch of little stories that add up over years' worth of comics. It's cumulative. Read a few issues on their own and it doesn't really work.

Born Again is one of the few exceptions because Miller came back only for 7 issues, and even that is heavily dependent on older continuity.

There's no Marvel equivalent of All-Star Superman, something that stands entirely on its own. (Maybe Ultimate Spider-Man but even there, it's more memorable as a long run than a short story.)

This is probably part of the reason why Marvel does poorly in bookstores compared to DC. It doesn't have the stand-alone books.

>>77989842
Fuck off shill. Multiversity is one of if not the greatest comic of all time. Name ONE thing from your precious Memevel that even comes close.

>>77989842
my god

>>77989926
Marvel gives less of a shit about continuity than DC, even after Convergence.
Bendis being the prime example.

>>77989319
Its a money maker and a writer in the same sense Stephenie Meyer is.

>>77984717
>>77989926
as a comic reader who only occasionally and tentatively dabbles in capes (no superiority complex--it's just usually not my thing) these explanations really ring true. since I'm not interested in long-game continuity and only want a single self-contained story, i find myself reading a LOT more DC than marvel. In fact, I could probably name the marvel books I have read on one hand: 1602, Kraven's last hunt... okay I guess that's it. I kind of wish there were more but given that a lot of the DC "standalone" "graphic novels" have been shitty and/or not really standalone maybe i should be careful what i wish for.

>>77990170
>have been shitty
You best not be talking about any books mentioned in the OP, boy.

>>77990170
If you've only read two Marvel comics then you really haven't given them a chance.

If you want some standalone Marvel stuff, check out:
>Squadron Supreme
>Marvels & Marvels: Eye of the Camera
>Death of Captain Marvel
>God Loves, Man Kills
>Miracleman

reminder that /co/ is only inhabited by DCfags because Marvel is more popular

>>77990219
Nope. Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, and Batman: Year One were all great. I personally hated All-Star Superman but I'm not calling it shitty, it's just my opinion (the whole goofy pet-black-whole, bench pressing a quintillion tons, cosmic shit just isn't my thing--Superman For All Seasons is my favorite Superman story, if that brings some perspective to my preferences). The Killing Joke was disappointing due to its simplicity and shortness but, again, I won't say that it's bad.

Now, Red Son, Hush, New Frontier (with the exception of the latter's artwork, which is beautiful) were BAD.

>>77990289
>Marvel is more popular
hello casual flickfag

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>>77990266
I liked 1602 alot.

>>77990393
>Now, Red Son, Hush, New Frontier (with the exception of the latter's artwork, which is beautiful) were BAD.
OP here, yeah they all suck.

But not recognizing The Killing Joke as the one of the best comics ever ... yikes.

One thing that sums up the difference between DC and Marvel is that Kingdom Come is an out-of-continuity ("imaginary," "Elseworlds") story while Marvels is about a guy who witnesses decades' worth of actual comic stories.

I think DC characters lend themselves better to stand-alone stories, partly because they're more mythic and Marvel's are deliberately supposed to be more like ordinary slobs. Also Marvel characters are all built for ongoing soap operas while more of DC's characters were created in the era before comics had continuity.

Even into the '70s and '80s, most DC comics were done-in-one stories and two parters at most (much like most TV series at the time) while Marvel would tell stories that lasted years.

>>77990170
I'd suggest the first run of Runaways. While yes, it is a run, it's only 18 issues long total and ends quite conclusively.

>>77990515
>Bendis
NO
O

>>77990289
Hi! Congrats for your 5th Shill this hour!

Here is [absolutely nothing]

-Disney

>>77990495
>Killing Joke
>one of the best comics ever
It's not even Moore's Top 10.

>>77990266
thanks! i'll check those out if i ever see links for them during my travels (and feel in a capes mood). my lack of marvel reading is honestly due to a lack of recommendations, not an personal bias. i have never heard any of the things you mentioned before in any discussions whereas i had heard of almost a dozen DC titles repeatedly

>>77990566
You AGAIN?

List his top 10. Now.

>>77990498
>One thing that sums up the difference between DC and Marvel is that Kingdom Come is an out-of-continuity ("imaginary," "Elseworlds") story while Marvels is about a guy who witnesses decades' worth of actual comic stories.
That's an unfair comparison. Kingdom Come's Marvel equivalent is Earth-X.

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>>77984647

>>77990495
Alan Moore doesn't like The Killing Joke. I don't hate it but I tend to agree with him that Batman and the Joker aren't built for such a serious story (TDKR works better for me because it has its share of campiness, and Batman needs to be a little campy).

>>77990602
Hitman omnibus when?

>>77986091
I think you misspelled Marvel there, friend.

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>>77990581
Pic related is his Top 10.

>>77990581
That's not an uncommon opinion, I hope you know that. Not the anon posting, but I'd put almost all of Moore's ABC work above Killing Joke.

>>77990603
>Alan Moore doesn't like The Killing Joke
I almost mentioned this in my post.. But alas.

>what is death of the author?

Also, The Killing Joke is campy, it's just not silly.

>>77990591
And Earth X isn't anywhere near as popular as Kingdom Come, because when Marvel does that kind of story fans don't feel like it counts.

>>77990603
Alan Moore doesn't like anything he's written.

>>77990631
>>77990662
>le non big 2 is better because _____ meme

>>77990717
I'd also put Watchmen and Miracleman above Killing Joke. But sure, everyone who disagrees with you about Moore's work is just an indiefag.

>>77990542
>Runaways
>Bendis
what.

>>77990581
>Miracleman
>Watchmen
>Supreme
>Saga of Swamp-Thing
>Tom Strong
>From Hell
>Captain Britain
>V for Vendetta
>Promethea
>Top 10

I'd put Killing Joke one step below For the Man Who has Everything, but one spot above Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?

>>77990765
Whoops, I shitposted without checking my facts.

Marvel also doesn't have anything like Vertigo. Until 2000 or so it was partly because Marvel was a more old-fashioned company than DC when it came to writing; they didn't want the new talent coming out of the UK (Warren Ellis was an exception but even he had to leave Marvel to become a big star) and they didn't like the idea of star writers.

Marvel tried to make Marvel Knights into a Vertigo-style imprint but only half-heartedly, and for the most part they've hired writers to do regular cape comics for them while leaving more serious comics for creator-owned imprints.

>>77989319
Bendis is associated with success because once he did something different from what the then comic creators were doing, he changed Avengers (for the better or worse) and his shit sold a lot because it was something new.

Now it's just the same stale shit but Marvel pushes his comics a lot, he gets good artists because he gets to pick them, he gets to write popular titles, he gets more support from Marvel than any other writer so he can make a 30 page comic with half of it being nothing but funny jokes with no plot and just rely on the push and his old rep plus the constant #1ossue shilling, of course he will be succesful.

>>77990747
Lol fuck off. You indiefags are somehow even worse than the marvelfags. When did this board get overrun by so many shills? Back in the good old days we could have a based DC thread without you faggots shitting it up.

>>77990747
>backpedaling

>>77990790
Come on, about six of those are better than TKJ. You just needed to pad out your list.

>>77990862
No, I really do think those are all better than TKJ. I like the Killing Joke well enough, but it's hardly one of Moore's strongest works.

>>77990862
>>77990852
I'm not backpedaling, I was responding as I saw fit. Your argument was literally
>lel, you're an indiefag fuck off.
You both seem to have trouble with the idea of someone disagreeing with you.

>>77990862
If you've read all of those, can you explain which ones are not as good as TKJ, and why?

>>77990896
ok

>>77990805
It's OK, anon. I do the same thing all the time and very rarely get called out on it. When in doubt, just go with Bendis. Even if you're wrong, people will assume you're right because no one on /co/ actually reads comics.

>>77990913
>implying i'm gonna type out a response just so you can read it and feel good about your superior taste

Now comes the part where you tell me I don't have an argument.

gg

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>>77990829
>Marvel also doesn't have anything like Vertigo
80s Epic was putting out plenty of fantastic stuff on-par with Vertigo's average offering. It may not have ever gotten it's "Sandman" but there was still a lot of innovative, high-quality stuff coming out of that imprint.

>>77990898
touchè

>>77990976
>that cover
Where can I read this?

>>77990898
>You both seem to have trouble with the idea of someone disagreeing with you.
There's a difference between someone disagreeing with you, and someone getting paid to disagree with you, and you're clearly the latter.

>>77991007
DELETE THIS

>>77990401
How is it a casual thing when Marvel sells more in comics and movies?

>>77991045
Exactly.

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>>77984501
OP is a faggot, and therefore no longer Marvel's target audience.

>>77991007
Even if I was being an indie shill, I'd be an Indie shill for an indie company currently owned by DC, therefore being a DC shill. Think before you post.

>>77990543
>namefagging as a dcfag
lol holy shit

dcfags everyone

>>77991113
Ok, mom.

bane?

>>77988632
you nailed it anon.

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>>77990926
Secretly everyone is a Bendis fan. Sure people here like to feel they have superior taste by calling him shit, hack or whatever they want. They feel better knowing their current indy darling is way better than the top dog at Marvel because it somehow validates the comics they are reading and that's fine.

And yeah the things people complain about Bendis are true as well. He likes to write for trades with slow pacing arcs and his characteristic dialogue. Not to mention putting the stories over any kind of continuity fans want to be acknowledged.

But it's also true that what he does is exactly what Marvel needs. He actually puts some effort in trying to change and advance these characters. You people always criticize his changes because you don't want your characters to advance that fast. Maybe if a change is teased and slowly build then in ten years you will accept it but Bendis doesn't have ten years. He wants to move forward himself not wait until his grandsons do the job for him. You hate him for that but it's what Marvel need. His stories also appeal to the readers. He writes what they want to read. Compare Guardians of the Galaxy against Inhumans. Both had the same number of variants but Bendis still won because he writes the team of Guardians people are interested in reading, accuse him of waifuing or whatever but people accpeted Kitty as Star-Lord because Bendis sold her to them in the first issue. He also put the Avengers on the map and some might say he did it by using gimmicks and events but he was the one who dared to pull these gimmicks and events, and they worked. People liked it. Bendis does know what people want. /co/ of course has other ideas, and most likely those ideas would send Marvel into bankruptcy again.

Bendis works, and /co/ loves him. All the hate messages are just the way they have to show their love.

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>>77993154

>>77984501
>It's another DCfriend b8s Marvelfriends thread

Marvel Owned the 90s so hard DC had to kill superman to get people to give a shit.
Marvel Owned the 90s so hard their only real compitition to this day is the artists who left Marvel and Spawned off the future of comics post-90s.
Marvel Owned the 90s so hard I don't think you even understand how huge the X-Men movie really was up until then, the X-men movie got above that Punisher and Blade couldn't get beyond.
Marvel Owned the 90s Comic Scene So Hard Levis jeans

>>77993279
>Marvel Owned the 90s so hard DC had to kill superman to get people to give a shit.
>Marvel Owned the 90s so hard their only real compitition to this day is the artists who left Marvel and Spawned off the future of comics post-90s.
>Marvel Owned the 90s so hard I don't think you even understand how huge the X-Men movie really was up until then, the X-men movie got above that Punisher and Blade couldn't get beyond.
>Marvel Owned the 90s Comic Scene So Hard Levis jeans


Marvel owned the 90s so hard they went bankrupt.

>>77993279
>Marvel Owned the 90s so hard I don't think you even understand how huge the X-Men movie really was up until then

Marvel owned THEMSELVES so hard they had to sell their movie rights and now will never have the X-Men in the MCU.

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>>77993372
>wanting the x-men in the MCU
The only rights package Marvel losing that didn't work out in their favor was F4, and that had been sold off long before they almost went bankrupt.

>>77984501
>Watchmen
>Sandman

Crap.

Also,
>Miller DD
>Ennis Punisher
>Claremont X-Men
>arguably some FF runs
>definitely some Spider-Man runs
>Gerber's Howard the Duck
>Gerber's Man-Thing
>Gerber's Foolkiller
>Peter David's Hulk
>Planet Hulk
>Simonson's Thor
>Sienkiewicz Moon Knight
>Ellis Moon Knight
>Weapon X
>Nextwave

If you count licensed comics and creator owned stuff there's:
>Alien Legion
>Conan
>Kull
>Groo
>G.I. JOE
>buttload of underrated Epic Comics titles

>>77993328
And never recovered from the departure of the Image guys.
Ever.

>>77990631

I fucking love Top 10 and it doesn't get brought up nearly enough when we're talking about Moore's work.

>>77993523
>Crap.
stopped reading there

>>77993372
They sold their movie rights when they were doing fine.

They're just retarded and lost all that money anyways because they didn't care about writing good stories and ran everything that was good into the ground. Quesada talks about this in his Fatman interview, they tried to sneak print more marvel knights stories without his approval.

>>77984501

Dc only has:

Superman
Gotham (Batman, Titans, etc.)
Vertigo/Wildstorm (which barely even qualify as DC)

the rest of the justice league is PURE SHIT
the only other member of the justice league I've even remotely enjoyed is Aquaman and that's because Geoff Johns constantly made fun of Aquaman's reputation as the lamest superhero of all time

>>77984717
>but generally Marvel produces better ongoing series
wew lad

>>77993372
Most comic universes have overlapping character traits, both visually with Matt Murdoch's red sunglasses to Psylocke's Electra everything else.

What would be nice is if an Iron Man enemy could be a time traveling purple armored genetic manipulator that created the X-men by reviving the Mutant Gene from Immortals lineages from remnants of the Inhumans.

It's ok if all these overlapping traits are in different movie universes. until we're cool with Killian making Magneto in a laboratory in world war 2.

>>77993812

>Titans
>Not shit

Have you hit your head?

I could list tons of characters that aren't shit but I don't care about that. Calling the Titans not shit is the stupidest thing anyone can do. They had one okay run 35 years ago it's time to let go.

>>77984501
Posting the links to the other Marvel shitting threads just so you know how much you are shitting the board.

>>77989138
>>77990017

>>77990852
kill yourself DCasual

>>77993812
>mentioned Geoff Johns's Aquaman
>not mentioning his based Green Lantern, Flash, Justice League (ToA and up), Curse of Shazam, and JSA

>Batman
>DC only has Batman

Holy shit. The amount of casual hurts.

>>77984501
I would say Omega the Unknown (also Gerber's Man-Thing and Howard the Duck), Born Again, Elektra Assassin, The Jasper Warp, Fury: My War Gone By, Squadron Supreme, Steranko's Nick Fury, Marvels, the Nightraven serials, and Nextwave qualify.

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>>77994140

>casual

I don't have a lot of patience to read shit, especially capeshit. I wait until things are concluded and only read the most acclaimed capeshit. Suck my cock.

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>>77993328
Yeah, but they went out like champs while everyone else was doing the same thing with tech companies. They perfected the Foil Cover. Not that the foil cover needed to be perfected, but still. It's something.

>>77994012
threadly reminder that drug induced ego death is a meme

OK /co/ what are the top 10 on-going DC books?

>>77985502
Flashpoint changed history because not even Marvel had ever managed to print such a horrible reboot?

Never mind, DC had already printed Zero Hour

>>77994222
Aquaman is probably the least critically acclaimed of the Johns' runs mentioned in this thread and it's the most recent one besides Justice League.

>>77990495
I liked Red Son :/

>>77990790
Anyone else here think Moore's GLC work is really underappreciated? I mean it's been decades, and his three little stories are still probably my favorite Green Lantern-realted material (and this is coming from a total Johnsfag).

>>77994968
Omega Men
Grayson
Midnighter
Martian Manhunter
Justice League
Justice League 3001
Gotham by Midnight (technically)
Gotham Academy
Prez
Sinestro

Plus a few more if we include Vertigo.

>>77991128
Look at this faggot

>>77997616

Someone doesn't know about Heroes Reborn...

>>77998690
Actually still haven't read that

>>77991045

Most of their comic sales are Star Wars though. Otherwise it's pretty even. And Batman is the best selling capebook every month barring events.

Why is a shitty company wars thread still alive?
Why is there so much shitposting recently?
Why do we have mods?
Do we have mods?

>>77998742

I think our mods like to watch us fight.

>>77998615
You have great fucking taste.

>>77998771
lel

>>77984647
>Born Again is better than Miller's original run
Spotted the casual

>>77998742
Mods think shitposting is part of board culture thanks to /tv/ and their movie studio wars being a mainstay.

>>77984717
Except Batman has had multiple amazing long runs (O'Neil and Morrison) that are recommended often. And no one recommends Elliot S! Maggin superman for no reason.

>>77984647
I'm not seeing that Beta Ray Bill god hunter story.

Into the trash it goes.

>>77984853
JLA is better but that's it. It's his 4th best DC ongoing.
Still great though

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>>77985026
>Invisibles isn't as good as Batman

>>77999441
JLA has god >>77999441
awful art

>>77999448
(You)

>>77985100
Epic is the GOAT of big 2 imprints but all the DC imprints are superior than the rest.

>>77999472
Epic story that's as good as Sandman or Wamp Thing?

>>77999482
Swamp thing is a DC comic repribted as a Vertigo comic and Sandman is overrated.

>>77999469
>But if there's no superheroes I get so bored dad!

>>77994222
>acclaimed = good
>pretends to be superior
nope

>>77999577
>le big 2 comics are worse just because lol
go back to raping voodoo dolls, Moore.

>>77999564
>overrated
this has absolutely NO bearing on quality

>>77990581
>Miracleman
>Top 10
>Promethea
>FtMwhE
>Watchmen
>Swamp Thing
>DR & Quinch
>End of the WS universe one shot
>Supreme
>The Jungle Line (if that counts as Swamp Thing theb From Hell)

>>77999630

Another anon, but something overrated does desensitize one to a work, if not totally turn them off if their expectation doesn't meet reality

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>>77990862
>yfw

>>77984501
>Company Wars

You're pathetic.

>>77999653
nope

>>77999663
again, none of that has anything to do with quality

>>77999675
>damage control

>>77999677
no u

>>77999694

It doesn't but for plebs it makes it seems like it's worth less if it doesn't live up to the hype they see all about it. Thus, in a way it loses quality in some people's eyes.

>>77999612
Invisibles has superior character building and art. It's not steeped in continuity (something I do like about Morrison's Batman but something that does make it harder to read). I don't like the focus on the Al Ghul family in Morrison's Bats either.

>>77999718
>but for plebs
who cares?

>>77999743

>who cares?

the company's wallets

>>77999694
Look if you think TKJ is one of the best comics of all time, you basically wear a sign that says "I am a gigantic Batfag casual". You can have your own opinions but they make you look like you know nothing about comics.
The work does not push the medium in any way. Not even Bolland's art. It does not push the Batman mythos beyond shooting a shit character who remained a shit character and had more bearing on future JLA stories than she did on Batman ones.

>>77999839
>a well constructed story is bad because it's 'entry level'
Where did all of you elitist faggots come from. My guess is /tv/. Now go read Cerebus in your kuckshed with your wife's son while she spends a week visiting friends in detroit.

>>77999630
literally everything to do with quality
it means it's worse than everyone says it is.

>>77999866

Another anon but what's wrong with Cerebus? I've been meaning to read it cus it sounds like a wild ride.

>>77999870
are you retarded?

>>77999878
Nothing, but it's like the /co/ version of PCmasterrace.

>>77999885
When Thor 2 has

>>77999892
*when thor 2 has a higher rating than MoS, you know someone's being paid off.

>>77999866
I don't operate in the retarded binary of "GOAT or shit" you do. I never said the story was bad, it'd probably be in my top 150 somewhere. It's just a joke to consider babby's first Batman story one of the best comics of all time. For fuck's sake it's not even close to most O'Neil or Morrison stories.

>>77999924
goddamn just give up

>>77999878
It's great, but it gets very heavy. I remember reading parts of it when I was 10, and I had no idea what was up.

>>77999929
What makes TKJ better than something like Miracleman or Promethea? You haven't said anything for the comic, you just pretend all repsonses are not enough because you're the god of comics or something

>>77999938

Why so? Why's it heavy.

>>77999878
The last 50 or so issues are kinda rambling madness but otherwise it's probably the GOAT comic

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>>77999866
>y-you're c.ucks
Holy shit this is your argument now? That's what you're down to?

>>77999955
It's so short that if feels extremely well constructed.

>>77999901
I'd rather watch Thor 2 every weekend for a year than sit through Man of Steel again.

>>78000038
ok, now I know (You)re trolling

>>78000028
So that means it's better than stories that are as well constructed but also have strong thematic content and better art?
Fuck, Watchmen has better story construction even.

>>78000086
>better art
coloring aside, TKJ has GOAT art.

>>78000110

Didn't Boland release a new version with his intended coloring?

>>77990710
Alan Moore doesn't like anything

>>78000110
It doesn't even have top 5 Moore art
>John Totleben Miracleman
>Steve Bissette/Totleben Swamp Thing
>Ha Top 10
>JHWIII Promethea
>Gibbons Watchmen
It's probably 6 after that.

>>78000203
'ok'

>>78000259
How is it better than those
>Totleben has some of the most mythical art of all cape comics, completely sells Moore's Miracleman endgame, excellent fight artist
>Bissette does some of the best monster design for Swamp Thing with his various forms, amazing two page spreads, brilliant psychedelic scenes
>Ha's character design is amazing, the level of detail he puts into Top 10 is off the charts, full architectural designs of the buildings, backgrounds are gorgeous and filled with fun easter eggs. He is also an excellent fight artist
>JHWIII is one of the best layout artists in the industry, his paneling is insane, his two page spreads are gorgeous and work perfectly with the mystic setting
>Gibbons is one of the best storytellers of all time, if you are talking about story construction and think Bolland is better than Gibbons on Watchmen, I dont know if you read Watchmen
Bolland is an excellent paneller and artist overall but I don't think there's enough in the style besides "muh photorealism" to put it above the other art.

>>78000395
Of course I read Watchmen. Also, photorealism whithout being lifeless takes skill.
Ross pictures, for example, look pretty lifeless.

>>77984718
>DC benefited immensely from the British invasion

This is basically it.

>>77984501
Marvel did, however, have a lot of good cosmic stuff in the 70s and 80s. They were fairly consistent with their continuity and timeline vis a vis Avengers and solo books. X-Men was run like a tight ship.

Morrison, Moore, Ellis and a few others have also written quality stuff for Marvel.

I think you're comparing Marvel's broad, mainstream lineup to more low-key titles that DC ran with their mainstay guys.

Marvel DO have quality titles with Hulk, Thor, Cap and Iron Man. It's just been 10 years since they were published.

>>77985026
are you fucking serious with this post?

the invisibles was the greatest comic GM has ever done.

>>77999653
>not listing captain britain

haha

Valiant

>>77984781
A complete dismissal of generally popular stories merely based upon their popularity and a promotion of fringe to prove some semblance of credibility while simultaneously being completely and totally insufferable in presentation?

We have a comic hipster, ladies and gents!

>>78000842
I don't agree that the stories he listed were overrated, but the other stuff he listed surely is superior.
Miracleman, Britain and death of Captain Marvel aren't 'fringe'. They're just not the largest 3 titles in the world....

>>77998742
Most of the mods are from /tv/. They hate comics and cartoons and only care about the movies. Meanwhile they actively encourage company wars threads.

>>77999577
>Invisibles
>not a cape comic

>>78000895
time to step away from the computer reddit.

>>78000895
So the Matrix is a cape movie?

>>78000722
Never got around to reading it.

>>78000952
Matrix 3 was

>>78000637
>the invisibles was the greatest comic GM has ever done
I preferred The New Adventures of Hitler: Mr. Hitler's Holiday

Reprint when?

>>78000967
highly recommended, a lot of captain britain's stuff is excellent actually.

and he's a total baller


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t607200.html

>>77985261
Masturbation doesn't exist in DC.

My unpopular opinion is...
1950's > 1970's > 1980's > 1960's > > > > 1990's > 1940's > > > > > Bah, mediocre! > 2000's > Shit > Bullshit > Horseshit > Marvel hates itself and wants to die > Now.

>>77985047
DC murdered Wildstorm and Milestone in cold blood. Of course a DCasual would think DC would get credit for companies they drove into the dirt because they're not Batman or Superman.

>>78001445
this 2bh pham

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>>78000971
Mah Fucking Nigga, New Adventures is underrated.

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>this thread

>>78002861
>muh image
die

>>78002870
Look at how awful this thread is, farn. Do you really believe that sticking with Marvel and DC is good for /co/?

>>78002961
No Marvel. DC only. Final Destination.

>>78002961
>farn

>>78001587
Milestone's getting resurrected anon. Midnighter is better than ever.

>>77998690
loved heroes reborn, onslaught, zero hour, final night, knightfall, DaRoS, electro superman, and many other events of the 90s.

>>77994259

>but they went out like champs while everyone else was doing the same thing with tech companies

They fucking com-busted in the mid-90s. Heroes Reborn literally lasted a year.

>>77998725

Don't

>>78002976
This. There's literally nothing wrong with reading DC exclusively. The vast majority of their output is better than even the best stuff coming out of any of the other publishers.

The problem is Memevel and their rampant army of shills astroturfing the board to make it look like people give a fuck about Memevel.

>>78003393
False flaggot please don't post at me again.

>>78002961
No DC. Marvel only.

>>78003287
what's that supposed to mean faggot?

you wanna die?

Why are company wars fags worse than batfags and x-fags combined?

>>78001107
source?