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All-New All-Different DC

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>I understand that over Thanksgiving, there was a radical look at a number of what are considered underperforming books at all levels, with editorial told to impose new creative teams, or switch one team for another. An All-New All-Different DC perhaps?

>We’ve had a number of changes on a number of books recently made, part of what some dubbed the return of “Meat and potatoes” DC Comics over the “Batgirling” titles. Well, what if you tried to do both at the same time?

>There are going to be some very interesting comic book solicitations coming through soon from DC… and some newsgrabbing headlines.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/12/04/marketshare-wars-all-change-at-dc-comics/
>>
>>77923639
Fuck off Rich.
>>
Finally, someone saw my idea for Couples Justice League.
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>Well, what if you tried to do both at the same time?

What does this even mean?

Rich and his stupid fucking made-up terms for initiatives that only *HE* uses makes his articles so impossible to parse.
>>
>>77923681
>

Rich and his stupid fucking made-up terms for initiatives that only *HE* uses makes his articles so impossible to parse.
>"part of what some dubbed the return of “Meat and potatoes"

He's such a twat. He's the one who coined and is the one the only one who phrases things this way.
>>
>New teams for Wonder Woman and Superman books
>Green Arrow, Green Lantern, and Flash relaunched completely
>New Supergirl book
>New Birds of Prey book
>Young Justice book
>New WILDCATS
>New Shazam book (With Johns "co-writing, but not actually writing it)
>Two new Justice League books
>A new in-universe Justice Society book
>Rotating Multiversity book with new creative teams

My guess at what they're planning. DC needs more reliable mid-performing books to help buoy the fact that so many DCYou books aren't selling.
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>>77924648
If two thirds of these are right, i am buying you a hat
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>>77924648
Wouldn't be surprised if you're correct. Not sure about WILDCATS, though. And Birds of Prey could be League of Batgirls with fan-favorite Harper Row.
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>DC turning SJW just to get profits

Fuck this shit
When did money become more important than principles?
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>>77924718
They're businesses, anon. Money has ALWAYS been more important than principles.
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>>77924718
>Well, what if you tried to do both at the same time
i think that you missed the part where they will Publish both type of books you nigger
>>
>>77924715
I feel like WILDCATS could make A LOT of money if done right. 90s nostalgia is all the rage currently and WILDCATS is probably an easier sell then a solo Midnighter title.

Hell, just get Steve Orlando to write it. It's not like Stormwatch didn't last 30 issues.
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>>77924648
I want these
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>>77924715
>And Birds of Prey could be League of Batgirls with fan-favorite Harper Row.

Hasn't Brenden Fletcher been teasing exactly this?
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>>77924753
I want Seeley on WildCATS, he's the one who's been using WS stuff in Grayson
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>>77924718
Since the first published comic, newfriend. Anyway, it's not like they're throwing universe wide events every two months and relaunching every year like Mahvel.
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>>77923795
Do you not know the term "meat and potatoes"?
>>
>>77924648
>>New WILDCATS
I'm cumming in my pants.

I hope you're right.

WILDCATS! WILDCATS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGISX9EwGFA
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>>77924783
Seeley LOVES the C.A.T.S. and would give the world what it needs: more Zealot.
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>>77924753
Tbh, every comic could make lot of money if done right. But yeah, I wouldn't mind reading WILDCATS, as long as Grifter and Zealot are there.
>>77924781
Ever since I've seen, like, three Batgirls in Batman Eternal, I'm waiting for League of Batgirls comic.
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>>77924648
>>New teams for Wonder Woman
Please for the love of god this, I want to be able to read WW again.
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>>77924753
I just want more Wildstorm in general. Midnighter is great and I want more good books like it for the other characters/teams.
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>>77924831
they need to get mike costa, his work in cobra files was fantastic, and so far there's not many good action writers on dc staff

ladytron's been in grayson, though, so has grifter. pike was in savage hawkman and something else.
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>>77924870
Finch's Wonder Woman is selling under Azzarello's to a noticeable degree, there's not a chance in hell that he's going to be on that book much longer.
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>>77924921
>Finch's Wonder Woman is selling under Azzarello's to a noticeable degree,
Did it finally dip under Azz numbers? I know for quite a while it was higher
>>
>>
>>77924935
Last few issues of Azzarello's Wonder Woman were selling at 35-36k. Finch just dipped to 33k, and it's sales have been in free fall for the last few issues.

It is completely propped up by variant sales right now.
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>>77923795
Ending Valentine's Catwoman run, making her a cat burglar again, and giving it to Tieri is as meat and potatoes as it gets.
It's easy to figure out. They're going to put an effort into having solid sellers for their middle aged old readers while still doing wild experiments to try to get new ones.
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>>77925011
>Ending Valentine's Catwoman run, making her a cat burglar again, and giving it to Tieri is as meat and potatoes as it gets.

More then likely that creative change was because the book is being canceled soon and Valentine had already finished her story.

Seeley on Suicide Squad, Pak on Teen Titans, and Abnett on Aquaman is not exactly what I'd call meat and potatoes though.
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>>77925062
>Pak on Teen Titans, and Abnett on Aquaman is not exactly what I'd call meat and potatoes though.
Pak can write fun young characters and Abnett can put out workhorse stuff that's not just bland, maybe they aren't " meat and potato" choices but I wouldn't call them experimental
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>>77924989
Now tell us how Avengers will flop!
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>>77925062
Well look at the Superman line too, it looks like they've abandoned the whole "Truth" "Justice" "American Way" thing they were setting up in favor of a Superman punches out Vandal Savage crossover.
>>
>>77924648
>New Shazam
>New Wonder Woman team
>Young Justice
>Multiversity book
>>
Predictions:
>female batman
>asian cyborg
>mexican flash
>black superman
>gay aquaman
>>
>tfw green arrow is favorite character
>tfw all of his runs since 2011 have been mixed bags or outright bad
being a GA fan is suffering
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>>77924648
>New WILDCATS

Right, because that will be such a big hit.

Your other ideas are good though.
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>>77925286
Lemire was great, convergence GA was decent. I hope they bring the GA family again.
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>>77924648
DC is fucking retarded. They think their books don't sell because of writing, but in reality it's because the company sucks donkey ass at marketing. They can change up books as much as they want, but if they can't get the word out on their own, then it's gonna fail again. Marvel has garbage doing well thanks to great marketing and fool proof business plan, and yet DC can't do the same? They should just relaunch all the books they considered failures with as much buzzwords as possible. Their PR sucks dick.
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>>77925255
>mexican flash
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>>77925358
lemire built a great mythos and a good supporting cast, but ollie himself either has really basic characterization or none at all. He's mostly generic action hero (and this is speaking as someone who was hype about the run during the whole thing)

Ideally the perfect run would be the mythos and cast of Lemire's with the liberal, hot-headed classic GA that had rivalries with hawkman and flash and a marriage to canary, etc.
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>>77925392
Sad vibe got a respect he deserves sadly nobody brought the series.
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>>77925408
I was so hype for his original plan, Dinah Simon baz world traveling heroes. Nrama: You made it clear that you want to build Green Arrow separately from those relationships for which he was so well known in the past, like Green Lantern and Black Canary and such. But since you’re getting into a long-term plan, do you think we’ll see him encounter any of those characters during your run?
Lemire: Yeah, I think eventually. Like I said, I need to redefine who he is first before we start playing him off other characters again. Like you said, we need a strong foundation of who this guy is. I don’t want him to become “that guy who dates Black Canary.”
So once we lay down that foundation, there should be the chance to do some cool stories with some of those other characters. Geoff and I have already talked about doing a new version of the Green Arrow/Green Lantern team-up with the new Green Lantern Baz.
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>>77925448
But I’m going to stay away from Black Canary for awhile, because I feel like once you get them together, that’s it. They’re together. So it will close doors instead of opening them, storywise. Somewhere down the road, they could always end up together, but for now, it might be interesting to see Oliver involved with other women.
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>>77924648
If Paktion changes I'll be mad
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>>77925255
None of that is gonna boost sales. DC still doesn't understand how the Marvel PR machines works no matter how much it's slapping them in the face on how obvious it is. The one time it succeeded was Babsgirl, and somehow they couldn't imitate it ever again.

I don't have that DCYou diversity screenshot, but it shows how well that line should have done if they actually shilled it. If reddit is unaware, than your doing a terrible job at marketing.
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>>77925498
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>>77925519
What article?
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>>77925465
>>77925448
this sounds too good. I did wish that lemire would do that geoff johns thing where he mixes the external dc universe with the character's inner mythos and stuff but it never really came to fruition
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>>77925567
the one where they complained that all the books were still being written by straight white men so it didn't matter, I think that's when we ended up making >>77925513
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>>77925567
DC you is not diversity enough http://www.themarysue.com/dcyou-sure-fooled-me/ sorry for posting this clickbait
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>>77925580
Sad Andrea left for marvel.
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>>77925498
And they weren't the ones that really pushed Babsgirl. It was the creative team that did most of the work to spread the new outfit. Hell, the creative team wanted to start back at #1, but Doyle and other higher ups said no and just renumbered the trades. A new #1 with the new Batgirl probably would've gotten at least 15k more in sales.
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>>77925618
same.
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>>77925597
>>77925590
Yeah I'm not clicking, googling, cacheing or even proxying this link, just wanted to know what's that about. Jesus Christ, can't these histrionic girls show a modicum of interest in their supposed hobbies and stop taking opinion straight from the marketing teat? I'm always the first one out to help someone pick up runs, catch up on characters or otherwise help people get into comics, but it seems like a lot of the new people into our hobby just have zero interest in actually picking up a book...
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>>77924648
>Rotating multiversity
FUCK YEA-
>With new creative teams
Well it can still work for some of the universes I guess.
>NEW WILDCATS
I tried re-reading Wildcats and it was the most generic thing I've read in my entire life.
>New Justice Society
Oh thank fucking god. Earth-2 was not the replacement we needed or wanted.
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>>77925597
>those comments shitting on DC marketing.
Holy shit, how can DC be so oblivious when fucking Marvel shills are telling them exactly how they can succeed.
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tell us what you know about the changes or gtfo
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>>77925653
I miss him
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New JS is all but confirmed now then. Abnett will round up Society to 12 issues then we'll get a new pngoing.
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>>77925689
Please god
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>>77925641
I think not even really the creative team's work would have mattered if it wasn't such a waifu character to begin with. Look at books that should have appealed to those people like Gotham Academy. People say DC only pushes Batman but the reality is that they don't do that. Batshit is popular enough that people seek out information on those characters.

>>77925666
I didn't mind the beginning of Earth-2. It just went to hell after Robinson left.
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>>77925062
>Valentine had already finished her story.

she had not.
Her doing Catwoman is what got her on B&R:Eternal.
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>>77925498
What a coincidence. None of those boosted marvel sales either
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>>77925779
Even besides all the events and relaunches, Marvel is still doing much higher numbers on average, not to mention their part in the whole Marvel brand hype machine.
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>>77925813
Is this actually true though? Cut out Star Wars and inflated early issue sales due to relaunches (let's be generous and say it takes about 3 issues for a book to begin settling in) and Marvel still sells in the same 20-30k range as DC. They are just smart enough to throw in another event and relaunch before the numbers fall too much.
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>>77925899
>Cut out Star Wars

But why would you do that? It's their property (or Disney's) now.
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>>77925899
Marvel's books are kinda always in state of relaunching.
Or are sold to braindead characterfags. Uncanny X-Men #600, I'm looking at you.
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>>77925899
Yes, Bendis does 50k on regular issues. DC has like, 4 books on top 50.
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>>77925936
Because it's misleading to include it as something that Marvel is doing right when it's mostly due to the parent company. Helps their bottom line but no other publisher has something like that where they could replicate the success. It's not helpful to include in analysis if you're wondering how DC can match them.

>>77925969
I think this is somewhat a legit point. DC doesn't really have big names who will sell on any book that they write besides Johns. Maybe Morrison but he's not into doing monthlies these days.
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>>77925899
Marvel has the new progressive crowd, the MCU crowd, and kept their old school character fans that will always keep buying new books, though of course we know the first two groups didn't "embrace" the industry and much as they claim, even just the 0,5% that got into comic books in some capacity is enough to make a difference in the shrinking comic book market.

DC not only has been sleeping on the social media buzz, progressive crowd and movie verse, but they also alienated a significant portion of their traditional fanbase with New52, which has been underperforming after the first two or so years of buzz, maybe the collector market is gone, maybe new fans didn't stick around, maybe old fans tried to give it a shot and came out unsatisfied (doubtful of the latter myself).
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>>77925754
It did come to an end though. In the penultimate issue, Black Mask was driven out of town. In the last one, the massacre of the other criminals gave her family dominance. The only remaining conflict was the one between her and Eiko and they went with a "You know what? See ya" resolution for that.
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>>77925899
Also he perfect opportunity to start a new chapter. And that said, most importantly, I think that the comics industry—certainly, we are—slowly working into a season model that’s not too unlike what we see in our favorite cable TV shows: a seasonal model that offers accessible entry points for new readers and is respectful of long-term fans. We did Marvel NOW! and All-New Marvel NOW!, which were both two very successful campaigns.
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>>77926031
Snyder got something going with his shitty Joker events I guess. I hate any kind of company loyalty, but IMO they have a lot of talent, a lot of marketable books and the overall line quality is night and day from Marvel, they just don't have the marketing machine and executive focus big ol' Disney has been giving Marvel these last 5 years.
>>
>>77926031
>Helps their bottom line

But that's why it's important. Having that degree of financial boost means they can, potentially, have a lot more freedom with their traditional releases, they could gamble on more things than other companies (which they don't do, because they're Marvel).

>It's not helpful to include in analysis if you're wondering how DC can match them.

Again, it has to be factored in because now DC has to fight against Star Wars. You know that DC can't be in second place forever, they need a Star Wars killer, that has to be going through the minds of the executives.
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>>77924899

Mike Costa wrote for the new52, and his book was like the first one cancelled.
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>>77926115
Harry Potter if only jk allows.
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>>77926115
My point is that any Star Wars killer won't come from changes to the main line. It's pointless to include in the context of, "well they just need better marketing" as if another 10k sales on something like Omega Men would matter in the big picture.
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>>77923651
Would you like to elaborate? I want to hear your idea, anon.
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>>77926036
Marvel has been taking some steady shit from the progressive twitter comics crowd for the Hercules bungle and no gay leads, but who knows if that has any actual impact.
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>>77926115
>they need a Star Wars killer
What on earth do they have that can compete with Star Wars hype though? The hype won't die down until like the middle of next year and it's not like they can start putting out Harry Potter comics
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>>77924648
I really would like it if Shazam managed to keep his new powers for a while.
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>>77926163
Apparently none, a lot of queer readers have been saying they won't buy marvel until they put out some more LGBT leads but then they're like "oh another straight female lead book thanks marvel!" and they pick up 20 books anyway
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>>77926163
>Hercules bungle
What? Though besides, I doubt this will have any effect, as this crowd doesn't do a lot of research outside of what is immediately presented to them, and honestly I think even though Marvel has an appeal to the "hardcore" Tumblr crowd, their bread and butter in social media presence comes from basic every day people who love the MCU and have a vague idea of feminism, they're not revolting against minor slights like this.
>>
>>77926031
It's not even about big names. People hate Bendis, casuals aren't even aware of him, yet his books sell because Bendis has the most marketing pushed on him. It's the faggot collectors who buy shit just to resell, and the endless Bendis crossovers. All those people who had to buy All-new X-men, Uncanny X-men, GotG, and Spider-miles just to get a complete story. He's going to do the same shit with his current line-up guaranteed.
>>
>>77926211
Judging by sales of Midnighter, their boycotting power is pretty much nil.
>>
>>77926149
Hawkman, Hawkgirl, Barda, Mister Miracle, Aquaman and Mera.
Sure, we first have to get decent New 52 Hawgirl, but still.
>>
>>77926147
Alright, that's true, I see your point. But...

>>77926183
>The hype won't die down until like the middle of next year

Dude, Disney has plans for yearly Star Wars movies through 2019. If Force Awakens does well, the hype train is basically unstoppable. This doesn't outright mean the comics sales will stay up all of the time, but it's looking good for Marvel.

That's why I was saying to that other anon, DC executives can't just think "oh well, we're losing, but if we look at their sales sans SW, we're actually even!". To the higher ups, that means shit, they're underperforming and they need to fix it.
>>
>>77926211
I'm still kind of eyerolling at this tweet from a very vocal queer rep person

>there were so many awful and repeated mistakes with batwoman that i don't know if i could ever read a monthly series with her ever again

because it's like 'are you new to characters going through patches of incredible supposedly ruining shit'?

>>77926226
Alonso column on CBR, wasn't taken well
>>
>>77926252
I'm still assblasted that Lemire didn't do any of the supposed Hawkman work in JLU that he said he would. Retconning out Hawktits Shayera and giving us the real thing would be so easy, it was also hinted at in the Futures End Hawksnarl page
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>>77926274
>>
>>77926226

Marvel and Abnett (the writer) said that they would build on whats come before, as well as play it closer to the mythology of Hercules.
When asked about Herc being bi (which he definitely was in myth, and was hinted at at least in the comics), Marvel said he was 100% straight.

Axel Alonso (Marvel EiC) even went so far as to make a joke about it, using the Iceman gay scene that had just come out as well.
>>
>>77926149
Stopping evil followed by a triple date sounds pretty cute and cool actually.

>Barda and Mera will never dom you
>>
>>77926290
Well he got distracted and started jerking off to the LoSH and editorial was asleep at the wheel and didn't stop him
>>
>>77924648
>Green Lantern relaunched
With King as the new writer, pls.
>>
>>77924718
Lol, you act like the two are mutually exclusive
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>>77926243
>implying they'd buy Midnighter anyway
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>>77926492
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>>77926513
HOW CAN YOU MISS THE POINT OF THE CHARACTER THIS HARD, JESUS FUCK
>>
>>77926492
>>77926513
T-t-this is trolling right?
>>
>>77926492
>>77926513
So, is he Christian Gray meets Pinhead or Dexter? Two "whole points" in three tweets.
>>
>>77926536
No anon, this is the power of the Normies
>>
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>>77926534
By making wild assumptions based off nothing and never confirming them, I guess!
>>
>>77926581
>>77926513
>>77926492
Please stop. This is genuinely sad, and even worse, hits so close to home to some people I know.
>>
>>77926581
That guy has a patience of a saint, i would have picked the page where Mindy gets worried about Apollo fighting the Britannias and shoved on his face already
>>
>>77924718
>When did money become more important than principles?
>>
>>77926295
If there's anything negative about marvel, or if there's any controversy at all, they end it fast, or kill it with sarcasm. Honestly, their shills will take care of it for them. It ends up being SJWs vs SJWs and the ones on Marvels side always win. The Herc being straight didn't even get as much shit as the Bobby being gay fiasco. People hated the Bobby thing, but suddenly it turns into "It's the best thing ever!" Thanks to communities like reddit where you can wipe out anything negative.
>>
>>77926492
>>77926513
>>77926581
Ugh. As someone who had a bi friend in high school who cosplayed Midnighter, who got me into Warren Ellis, that is painful to read.

Those references to characters created after Midnighter just go to show what a newbie idiot this guy is.
>>
>>77926581
Is that a boy or a girl
>>
>>77926616
FotoClub is good people and he's constantly doing the work in the trenches trying to convince idiot SJWs that their misconceptions about DC are wrong.
>>
>>77924648
That's not a guess, that's just your hope
>>
>>77926771
He/she/it sucks dicks, what's the difference?
>>
>>77924648
>>New teams for Wonder Woman and Superman books

This alone would revolutionize the DC line IMO.

There is something profoundly wrong when two of your three flagship characters are middling at best critically and commercially.

Calm your tits, Pak nut-huggers. It's the Truth status quo that sucks, not him
>>
>>77927045
I think the status quo is alright, but the Wrath fight is dragging on and we don't even know who's running Dawn Command yet (unless they're dropping that aspect of it)*

*I haven't read this week's issue yet though. Maybe things start moving along in it. I did see the preview had some backstory for her.
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>>77925195
Is it....a good thing?

I mean, I enjoy punching villains, but I kind of like "reimagining a character on the modern times more aong their early characterization, where we see what is his core" thingie.
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>>77926492
>>77926513
>>77926581
Jesus Christ, what the fuck am I reading?
>>
>>77924718
>doing sjw pandering is worse than fanboy pandering because i don't like it
>>
>>77923639
Is this picture a real DC advertisement?
The "90`s we so funny" style feels bad.
>>
>>77924718
>SJW
>Money
pick one.
>>
>>77923649
This. You already posted this exact same article a month ago.
>>
I find it weird they haven't fired Bob Harras yet. He got fired as Marvel EiC for a line that, while weak, wasn't as hard to fix as the current DC is.

It seems to me it was easier to lose your job at the Big Two back then, but that may just be a distortion of history.
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