WE WUZ ROBIN
NO, WE WUZ ROBIN
I have to say, so far this book makes me think the police should shoot every Robin in their smug fucking faces
But then I generally dislike teenagers and think their suffering is well deserved
they are REALLY going out of their way to make the cops look like assholes who are on a power trip here.
like to an absurd degree.
also anyone notice how the cop who got shot is black but afterwards every cop participating in various unreasonable bullshit is white?
>the gray son of Gotham
Lord have mercy and save us from the retards who think they're being clever.
This was a terrible time to have this storyline
without Batman there to justify why there's a robin the civilians seem right in light of all the stupid shit Damian and the We are Robin kids are doing
honestly it seems to try and be building on "The Grass Roots Movement" shit we keep seeing pop up on social media every now and again. Pity Occupy got torpedo'd by special interest groups, the TEA Party is a bunch of angry conservatives whose only saving grace is an ability to stay on message (and who ironically enough have become an enormous thorn in the GOP's side due to their candidates refusal to cooperate with the left stymieing various legislative endeavours and making conservatives look bad) and the general retardation of any movement with no accountable leader.
Honest to god who would WANT a few hundred teenagers in costumes trying vigilante justice? It's a great concept for a capeshit book but this is really, really poorly executed. It's a silver age idea with a dark age execution.
Well Robin is a Golden Age/Silver Age concept that sort of works in the dark age
I mean if the argument is that not everyone can be Robin because of reasons and that kid killing a cop proves it then I'd have to question why Damian is even allowed to be Robin or hell Jason who killed a lot of people is given a free pass
Without Batman to set the record straight you have a lot of talking heads this issue shitting on the concept and making it look dumb as fuck
pretty much, Jason's a murderous asshole who at least has age, experience, and no compunctions with firearms. Damian's an equally murderous asshole without Dick or Bruce around to make him calm the fuck down.
The writers are trying to turn the talking heads into strawmen to tear down but the strawmen are left sounding more reasonable than the bargain bin robins.
What year is it set in?
Damian was awesome in this. Straight up dissed Jason and Tim, I actually started laughing. Jim and the other Robins got BTFO as well which is great.
King kept the New 52 origin for Tim. Huh. Whatever, Tim isn't even all that important to this story as of now, anyways, so who cares.
Typical King coming through with the Dick hype.
>"Fuck Spyral, Dick don't care!"
>"The First is coming."
>"Splendid, The Gray Son is here!"
>"Also, Nightwing name drop!"
Is the Batfam inherently shit? Both this and B&R Eternal are mediocre as fuck, despite having good writers on them.
Grayson really needs to stay away from Batfam wankery/Gotham and keep with the spy angle.
we Robin now
we r leejin
we do not forgive
we do not forget
my guess would be nanomachines
>Seeley's dialogue is one of the few things worth reading out of B&R Eternal
>King's dialogue does the same for this
Why can't the editors just leave them in charge of an event instead of having them script their plots?
> try out Batgirl, Gotham Academy, and even We Are Robin
> DC already has them in a shitty crossover with their other shitty comics
For fuck's sake. I bought enough of this shit in the 90s and 00s. The vast majority was shit and I trust DC editorial somehow even less now.
They need occasional crossovers to boost sales or the books have to get cancelled sooner. Blame stupid fans who don't buy good books. The Gotham Academy issue shouldn't be too weird though, probably similar to the Endgame tie-in where they don't really get directly involved but they still react to things going on in their city.
Why do I bother?
It's not like they're crossing over with a megahit like Batman. DC really thinks the steady-but-not-smashing readers of Grayson and Robin:SOB are fine with having their storylines blatantly interrupted because the sales of We Are Robin are quickly sliding into cancellation territory?
This was always designed as crossover between Son of Batman and We Are Robin because they wanted Damian to react to these kids. The Grayson issue is the throw-in.
And yes, comic readers are fine with it. You'll see the sales jump up because people will buy all the books in the line to get the whole story. Comic fans are dumb, but that's why the companies do it. I personally skip out on the issues of things I don't care about and just get the trade if I care that much, it is is what it is.
What is this? 1993?
How about publishing good ongoing books with good creative teams that can have good readership.
Instead it's a buncha rotating creators on books that try to sustain readership with hits of crossover after crossover. It's like a bad drug habit. They keep needing to up the dosage, but it's not gonna work in the long run. You cannot sustain this industry on a buncha cheap crossovers forever.
We should have left this shitty model of publishing comics back in the 90s.
When Jason was killed, now having always been evil Talia saw the opportunity to turn batmans fallen son into a weapon. Lazarus pit. Turned him even crazier and more reckless than he had been. She had the League train him and had him do magic shit, with like demons and spirits. And then she just gave up on him and he started his own hero for hire type shit.
Also, I can't fucking stand what they've done with Dick Grayson: Winter Soldier Agent Of SHIELD. What the fuck was wrong with Nightwing? You know, besides the idiots running DC not knowing what the fuck to do with em.
>they are REALLY going out of their way to make the cops look like assholes who are on a power trip here.
Its Gotham, literally EVERY cop except Gordon and very few others act like that.
>Dick Grayson: Winter Soldier Agent Of SHIELD
Is what they were before King wrote them. Now all of a sudden, they actually respect the REAL Robin and the FIRST Robin. BRE and WAR have only shown them to be little shits that don't respect the legacy, but now that King's in charge, it's fine.
Go into the issue without hating them, you'll feel better. The WAR crew are amateurs, Damian is badass, Jim gets BTFO, Jason and Tim are dissed, and Dick is hyped up. There's literally nothing wrong with that.
>actually learn something from dick and company now
Nah, there''ll be a conflict between the old Robins and the new ones, eventually they will manage to impress and or save the old guard and be seen as heroes in the process. (Then We are Robin gets cancelled in a year or so)
A friend who works at a comic shop, and has hung out with Seeley a number of times at cons he's worked, has told me he likes it. I said I just didn't care for DC doing that to Dick and he said he understood where I was coming from. It could be a great book. It probably is with Seeley. Yet I just don't like DC's direction.
Also he is gay and I can't blame him for loving dat ass.
A) Yeah, if you're half my age, I'm going to call you boy. If you were black and female, I'd call you girl. Fucking deal with it.
B) If the little shit had actually not been a little shit, he would've actually been okay.
C) HE ACTUALLY IS A FUCKING ROBIN. IT'S NOT RACISM AND RACIAL PROFILING WHEN YOU ACTUALLY ARE THE THING THEY'RE ACCUSING YOU OF, YOU FUCKHEADS.
I'm ready to drop the book when that happens.
>The Gray Son of Gotham
I THOUGHT WE WERE IGNORING THAT
The Grayson preview seems to suggest they'll be receptive to Dick's advice. But you can already see some of them quitting after Damian shows them how unqualified they are.
Probably the end result is that they are less actual vigilantes and more of a neighborhood watch.
I don't think you can call villains stating their plan a tease though. It's not like there's anything to suggest that they'll win. How they fail is the suspenseful part, not whether or not they will.
It's fucking embarrassing, really. Was Damian meant to have stuck it somewhere that would be a weak point because he knows his father's work? Doesn't matter, it's drawn as is and just makes everyone involved with the suit look like a douche.
In what way? Is it the whole Kraven's Last Hunt deal where the story is obviously meant to end in showing that only Batman can be Batman, or is Jim part of a long term KEIKAKU* that is set to end with him failing for some purpose or another?
Or is it like Superior Spider-Man in that it's obviously a temporary thing and no shit Gordon will fail?
*keikaku means intention
I've really enjoyed learning more about Dick.
Well, he may wear the suit at random points in time. DC isn't selling so well these days, we're seeing everything return to status quo. SeeKing may have been asked to make it so that Dick can have adventures as Nightwing and as Agent 37. Part of the compromise might be the Nightwing is used during events and the like to make it look cooler (so Robin War, Titans Hunt, etc.).
I don't think the Nightwing costume has much pull. People are going to read an event regardless of what he's wearing in it. And the way Robin War is going it seems more likely that we'd see him in that ugly Robin suit for a little bit for the sake of solidarity rather than a Nightwing one.
The only time it might matter is if you want to pump sales up for a fringe book and you need to make it really obvious to characterfags that they need to buy another book. I also wouldn't look at Titans Hunt as any sort of trend since the whole point is revisiting past, lost memories.
It's selling below now. The debut issue did great, but it's been bleeding sales. I was thinking his appearances in Batgirl, Titans Hunt, and BRE would raise sales, but it didn't work. Robin War might help, though. Maybe even Starfire could raise sales. I'm thinking a crossover with Suicide Squad and Midnighter, right before the Suicide Squad movie comes out, would help out with sales. A JL crossover would, too.
At a time where Titans and other guest appearances aren't helping Dick's sales, it might be time for a relaunch. Crossovers and appearances in other media can help, but it won't last forever. A book titled "Nightwing," starring Agent 37 but with a Nightwing-inspired look, and referred to as Agent Nightwing instead of 37 or Grayson, would probably be just enough for a small increase.
His sales have stabilized around 32k-36k, depending on how well the variant does. For a new direction, a title with no brand recognition (like Nightwing), and a 3.99 price tag, that's pretty good. That's not getting into how well it does digitally (usually the top 2-5 that week depending on what else comes out), and we don't even know the extent of the trade sales since the first trade hasn't come out in paperback yet.
I think he got confused in that it's making more money than Nightwing right now even though the physical copies are down. But it's not really bleeding sales. It has settled into that "only a few hundred drops per issue" range and it jumps up for variants and guest appearances. That's normal ongoing behavior.
Sales on the two trades in January coming out together will be interesting to watch.
>Sales on the two trades in January coming out together will be interesting to watch.
yeah timing the release of vol 1 in paperback and vol 2 in paperback together is good marketing.
a shame there's no hardcover for vol 2 though
i have an HC for vol 1 and im one of those pedantic fucks who likes my comics to be in the same format
Speaking of digitally, there's a Robin War sale on comixology right now.
I hope Grayson takes over the top selling list again, especially since even more of it is on sale than last time
>Grayson #15 PREVIEW (Robin War #2)
>'merircans still believe that their police isn't a corrupted and fucked up system
I know that there are some good cops out there but you're delusional.
Don't take me wrong almost all the police systems in the world are pretty badbut people know it, it's just in America where they go full m-muh police, m-muh army.
Kinda makes sense that Jason would stick up for the Robins the most. He needed that in his life, and he can't fault lost kids out in the streets for wanting the same. Nice subtle characterization that's completely absent in his own book.
You need to understand that Dick is effectively a Batman now. He's done his time as Bats, and he did a good enough job protecting Gotham.
Robins die. They die for Batman. Having two dead Robins and an ugly one for brothers can be scary, anon. But now Dick can train an army of Robins to do his bidding effectively enough to die after living a valuable life. If Dick didn't return, they all would've died as "Robins" but without actually doing anything worthy of his name. The Robin School is just his cannon fodder.
This. King really knows how to write characters to serve a theme and a story, and not just one or the other, for both.
>Implying that wasn't intentional
I just want more of Damian insulting him. I don't dislike Tim or Jason, I just find Damian to be at his funniest when doing so.
This is literally the worst attempt at being topical that DC has done since the election special.
>Is the Batfam inherently shit?
When they're all together, yes.
Too many characters and too little skills and personality to go around.
Dick and Jason are getting to be indistinguishable from one another, especially since Jason has been written like Dick 2.0 when Dick isn't there.
Thank goodness they often show Jason drinking or else we might confuse him with Dick.
And Harper is a pro in tech and electronics when Tim and Barbara still exist so she's just kind of there.
That's actually pretty fucking clever, I didn't even notice it.
>He is a direct descendant of the Crowne family.
>Perfect placement of the reference, as the whole point of the "Gray" in his name was that he is meant to be the bridge between the "white" of the Crownes and the "black" of Cobb.
>King of the Robins, as the "First"
>the "Dark Heir" to Batman, having been Batman himself
It's actually such a nice detail, if it was intentional at all, that is.
He kinda was, though. He is their inspiration. If he didn't go around being Robin, there wouldn't have been so many of them now, and it's not just them. He inspired Jason, Tim, and Damian, too. And then, by proxy, kinda inspired Barbara, now also Maps (kek). I don't count Harper or Steph (New 52) since they were inspired by Batman in one way or another, and not one of the Robins.
Dick supported Batgirl, he was there to train Robins and has trained his own Robin. If he'd never let that happen back then, then this wouldn't have happened now. Dick is a hero, so when he sees people die, he's going to blame himself. That's just how Dick is.
Detective Comics #47 preview (Robin War part 3)
the whole thing was a set-up. Both the cop and the crook where placed there by the Court of Owls. I'll bet the gunshots didn't even kill them.
The whole thing is an organized siezure of power. It's like with Nazis and jew/jew sympathisers, or the Klan and blacks, or prohibition or anti-communism.
All you need is an 'enemy' that could be anyone, and you can now arrest anyone you want. You can get rid of any 'undesirables' off the street for the flimsiest pretext, and you will get a promotion for doing so. any law enforcement agent that doesn't go along with it gets arrested themself. Then its off to the forced labor camps, viva la slavery.
the whole thing is a ploy so that the court has all the power in gotham. masked vigilantes get manhunted, meanwhile they control batman, and the people have no anti-authoritarian activists able to do anything
That officer is a better detective then Tim who took days to figure out who Batman is and Bane who took years to figure out who Batman is.
>and then I noticed his SNEAKERS. For SNEAKING.
There are people on certain sites that will go unnamed that believe that this is a sign of DC backpedaling and bringing Nightwing back on a permanent basis and not a just crossover gimmick to make the story seem bigger.
The Grayson side characters are so much better than the Batfam it's crazy.
I'd much rather read about Dick interacting with Tiger/Helena/all the Wildstorm characters instead of the same old boring shit with the Batfamily. Especially since pretty much all of them are awful now.
I'm excited to see where this event goes. I never thought I'd enjoy We Are Robin, but it's pretty enjoyable and fits Gotham pretty well. I hope the book is strengthened as a result of the event.
>C) HE ACTUALLY IS A FUCKING ROBIN. IT'S NOT RACISM AND RACIAL PROFILING WHEN YOU ACTUALLY ARE THE THING THEY'RE ACCUSING YOU OF, YOU FUCKHEADS.
Eh, I'd disagree. Basing the profile purely on the type of shoes he's wearing is still racism. Broken clock is right twice a day and whatnot.
What's up with books that switch artists up throughout anyway? Is it a deadline thing, I guess? It makes sense when it's a story divided up into different sections, but this just switches artists in the middle of scenes and is pretty jarring.
>HE ACTUALLY IS A FUCKING ROBIN. IT'S NOT RACISM AND RACIAL PROFILING WHEN YOU ACTUALLY ARE THE THING THEY'RE ACCUSING YOU OF, YOU FUCKHEADS.
He was right due to dumb luck, the red shoes are not enough to suspect he was a robin, he was just the usual asshole police officer.
It's kind of amazing how badly a Lobdell reader will get confused by a comic that doesn't constantly use narration boxes
People who allow Lobdell to continue making comics are guilty of a crime and should be treated as such.
Fans of that pairing seem to like Tim being a naive, feminine waif who's secretly a massive whore and like Jason being an aggressive macho guy or basically a rapist.
One of the strangest batfamily pairings there is.
This would be a logical story for Calvin to appear in, so he isn't going to
It was in Nightwing. Decades back, a street urchin who joined Haly's Circus fell in love with the redhead daughter of one of Gotham's wealthiest families. He knocked her up, but her father put an end to the relationship, telling him that Gotham will always consist of the black (the poor) and the white (the rich), and that there will be no in-between. The circus kid becomes a Talon, and later kidnaps the baby, calling it the "Gray Son of Gotham".
King was asked about Calvin a little while back, and he said that he thinks he's interesting and he would see if there was a story he could fit into. Obviously, he had already started work on Robin War before this question was asked, so unless that one question gets King to care about the character, as of now, he won't ever be relevant unless Snyder, Tynion, or Seeley plan to have him in BRE.
It's actually a really cool concept. Also, it should be mentioned, that the Talon in question, Dick's great-grandfather, was William Cobb. He was thought of as the best up until then, so of course the Court would be after Dick's ass.
He was also the one that was consistently outfighting Bruce at first during the beginning of the Court of Owls arc. Bruce beat him up later, though, which was also how Bruce was able to trace his DNA and realize he's Dick's ancestor.
Also the Gotham family in question is the Crowne family; the redhead was Amelia Crowne.
>And thus, the origin for Dick's grayness and his love for redheads.
Also why the crown here is so awesome. >>77866869
You are amazing, anon.
No, no. Dick's father, Giovanni "John" Grayson is still very much his dad. His dad's grandparents were William Cobb, later a Talon, and Amelia Crowne, a member of one of Gotham's major families, though.
John's dad was the first Grayson, or Gray Son of Gotham, and was raised at and by Haly's Circus, just as Cobb was before he was recruited as a Talon.
Haly's Circus actually doubled as their place to recruit new Talons (I mean, trapeze artists, knife throwers, etc., are all pretty good starting points to becoming assassins).
Dick was predetermined to be their newest recruit as he was a Gray Son, but his parents died before he could be recruited; Dick was adopted by Bruce, who the Court knew was Batman, immediately, so they weren't able to grad the kid in time.
Dick's mom, Mary, is literally the same person. No secret bloodlines (as of yet...).
Would you lurk tumblr just to search for an autistic jasonfag and posted in on /co/?
>Giovanni "John" Grayson
Actually it was John "Giovanni" Grayson in the Grayson secret origins segment, which is also the only place where he's referred as Giovanni. I guess they wanted to exoticize his name or something
I always found it funny that Devin Grayson tried so hard to give Romani-sounding names to the other members of Haly's Circus, but was stuck with the whitebread John Grayson for Dick's supposedly "real full-blooded gypsy" father. She tried to get around it by implying that it was actually an anglicized version of Yojo Graesinka, but everybody else ignored it.
I found if funny how she went to the trouble of making him romani when the vast majority of how she presented it was pretty racist. It was like the late 90s-early 2000s when this was going on but still
>electing anyone with the last name Noctua anything
seriously you gotta love the place, the people are so fucking persistent
I'm positive that if he made a good enough show, the Joker's Brother could become mayor.
>"But it could be like Batgirl"
This is basically the reason for
I hope it's good.
Still think it would be hilarious if the Jan. issue ended with Dick keking Kori with Atlee.
Also, I missed BM/SM (Can you really blame me? Dick is barely even a presence in that). So,
>RW part 2
>RW part 3
>Part 4 is the week after, alongside BRE.
>Part 5 is the 23rd, alongside BRE and Titans Hunt #3 (Yay, Dick and Donna interaction! Finally!).
>Then, Robin War #2 comes out on January 6th, alongside BRE.
>Starfire #8 and BRE #15 on Jan. 13th.
>Then Titans Hunt #4 on Jan. 20th, and again, BRE.
>Finally, Grayson #16 and BRE on the 27th.
We are gonna be getting a lot of Dick leading up to #16.
We Are Robin is a bunch of Gotham kids inspired by the real Robin who decide to be Robins themselves to fight crime in Gotham.
Before one of them killed a cop in this issue, another one was killed in a bomb blast, but nonetheless they have all the righteous fervor of teenagers and are continuing to be untrained vigilantes.
We are Robin:
>Gotham kids who are orphaned/otherwise disenfranchised are organizing into vigilante squads and calling themselves Robin, funded and directed to a degree by Alfred
and I'm not giving you a summary of Robin War because this is literally the first issue, so you can read it you lazy fuck
those people are admirably optimistic
I mean I'd be worried about his status as Robin too. They're pushing the We Are Robin thing, Snyder's pushing his OC donut steels, Carrie's back, Damian's been sidelined from every event except this one. It's definitely looking like his time as Robin might be over sooner rather than later.
>They're pushing the We Are Robin thing
Hardly. Them being included in this event with ALL the Robins will probably be the last thing of note they get to do. And their sales are shit still while Damian's are 10k+ more.
>Snyder's pushing his OC donut steels
When was the last time Duke or Harper were in Batman and important? Arguably he's pushing Harper more than Duke anyway by including her in the weeklies. And Snyder will leave eventually.
In DKIII, an elseworld?
>Damian's been sidelined from every event except this one
Because he was dead for at least half of the last weekly and they decided to not include shove him in somehow because people would scream over continuity.
Though people whined anyway so there you go.And they said he's gonna be in BRE eventually.
Not only did they spend all that time bringing him back, but they let Tomasi have bookends for the arc they brought him back in. So yeah they want him around, especially with those shitty movies of his.
How did they even know to bust in and arrest that random kid whose only crime was having Robin posters in his room?