Kirby or Ditko?

They were complete opposites in style and and personalities / politics but were good friends because they were both real artists that loved their craft.

Too bad they never got in a room with a tape recorder and shit on Stan Lee together.

Too hard to choose. Ditko gave us Question and Doctor Strange. Kirby gave us Fourth World and Cap.

>>77752831
Didn't Ditko go insane at some point and create the inspiration for Rorschach?

>>77752891

You should try reading comics before posting on this comics board. Or at least be decent enough to get a trip so the rest of us can filter.

I had to give it to Jack, partly because I am unfamiliar with a large body of Ditko's work. I've read Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, Creepy/Eerie, and Mr. A. All of his DC and Charlton work in unknown to me

>>77752831
Steve Ditko, ofcourse.

Jack Kirby was just a work for hire, and worthy of nothing.

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Jack had a much bigger influence throughout the comics industry, and he seemed much nicer than Ditko, not to mention I like his art more. But it's really down to personal preference, Ditko is also a great artist

Kirby has like 4 decades worth of great comics

Ditko has a few years of them

>>77752831
Remind me, was it Ditko that threatened to throw an editor out the window if he fucked with his pages?
Or was that Steranko?

Kirby was a better writer, Ditko was a better artist.

They were both skilled in both fields and let their personal politics creep too far into their work, but that's the core difference.

>>77753201
Right, I forgot that comics only count when they're published by Marvel or DC.

>>77753252

Sounds like Steranko

Did Ditko even work in the bullpin? I can imagine him just mailing in pages

>>77753320
>Did Ditko even work in the bullpin?
I thought everyone did back in the day. Ann Nocenti said Ditko would just wonder into your office and sit down to have a conversation

Ditko, baby!

>>77752891
No, Moore went nuts and thought that he himself based Rorschach on any other philosopher than Immanuel Kant.

Kirby as a matter of personal taste.
I still need to read his less famous stuff, like Kamandi.

>>77753316

Was Ditko working in the 40s and 50s?

>>77752831
Ditko.
I don't like juice.

Ditko could design circles around Kirby. Just look at Kirby's concept for Spider-Man vs. the costume we have today that has endured 53 years with minimal alteration despite numerous popular redesigns.

>>77753387
Yes, actually, Ditko was working in the 50s.

You should learn how to use Google.

>>77753252
>>77753320
Ditko didn't work in the bullpen at all. He just delivered pages and left.

The story about an artist dangling an editor out the window varies. The one in Bryan Talbot's book Naked Artist was about Alex Toth dangling Robert Kanigher from a window. However there was a 1999 interview with Kanigher where he denied it happened, that it was Julius Schwartz whom Alex Toth got into an argument with (but with now dangling out the window). So who knows?

>>77753515
>but with now dangling out the window

I mean, with no one dangling out the window.

>>77752831
Ditko is Ayn Rand loonie recluse
Kirby became a bitter old hypocritical faggot and his fans inherited his bitterness.

I like Steranko and Infantino more. less baggage and better odds for positive and or meaningful discussion

>>77753515
I don't think the story I'm thinking of had Steranko dangling an editor out the window, just telling him that if he fucked with his pages I think he had done an issue with no dialogue, the editor didn't like it that he was going straight out the window.

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Ditko... because /pol/ is right and you're all just a buncha filthy pinko commie scum

>>77752831
Ditko. Kirby's had the biggest influence over all but Ditko's had the biggest to me

>>77753696
I agree. Kirby is too mainstream.
Thanks to Kirby, we have to suffer capes nowadays

Ditko looks a lot like Chris Chan in that picture.

>>77752831
Can't choose. But neither could draw a beautiful woman to save their lives. And I say this as someone who loves them and their contributions to the medium immensely.

>>77753908
Nah, both of them are fine at drawing women, Kirby made his look a little bit like Hedy Lamarr, just he was never great at drawing male faces. Ditko was fine at drawing women too, see MJ

>>77752831
I don't know, are we voting purely on art? If it was pure art I would vote for Ditko, but I voted for Kirby as an overall thing.

Jack, most definitely. They didn't call him "The King" for nothing

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>>77752871

Kirby and Ditko's respect for each other was pretty cool. Kirby didn't actually intend to write the Fourth World himself, he just wanted to create the characters and write and draw New Gods (which was supposed to be called Orion) and hand the other books off to other creators. Mister Miracle was specifically created for Ditko which is why he's a slim acrobatic character in the style of Spider-Man or Blue Beetle or the Creeper. When you think about it a super powered escape artist is a perfect idea for a Ditko character, just pages and pages of jumping around and contorting and acrobat posing.

>>77753960
>Ditko was fine at drawing women too, see MJ

Ditko famously never drew MJ's face! Her face was always obscured when he drew her since the joke was that she could've been extremely ugly or pretty. It was Romita who drew her face for the first time.

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>>77753960

Nah Ditko's women were shit which is why Gwen and Betty got redesigns when Romita came on.

Don Heck for all his flaws was the one that drew the hottest girls during the Silver Age

>>77754902

Romita made everyone gorgeous, dat romance background

>>77754958

i like Heck's Avengers more than Kirby's fite me

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>>77754958

Heck's Natasha

>>77754986
Looks like one of the Hex Girls from Scooby-Doo

>>77754986
She looks like the Grinch.

>>77753960
I agree about Kirby drawing women well, but Ditko was shit at that

>>77753691
>/pol/ is right
About what exactly?

>>77754958
>>77754958
What about Wally Wood?

>>77754958
>Don Heck for all his flaws
I feel like Heck's flaw was that he wasn't Kirby, his pre-Marvle work has a really different look to it compared to when he was taking over titles like the Avengers and changing his style to fir what Stan wanted.

> Don was unlucky enough, I think, to be a non-superhero artist who, starting in the sixties, had to find his niche in a world dominated by superheroes.
Roy Thomas

>>77754760
Didnt Kirby base Miracle Man on Steranko? Since Steranko was a magician/escape artist?

>>77752831
I'm sorry Ditko. Nothing against you, but I'm a kirbyfag.

>>77757121
come on,
>basing a character on a real person
>creating a character to appeal to a specific writer/artist

they aren't the same thing.

>>77752831
It's a tough decision, though I'm leaning towards Jack. Steve may have given us Spidey, Question and Ted Kord, but Jack gave us his Fourth World saga, and that is my favorite comic saga. So it's The King all the way for me

>>77757121
Shit. I meant Mister Miracle.

But....

>"The character was inspired by the early illusionist career of comic book artist Jim Steranko..."

>>77757242
On the wiki for Mister Miracle.

>>77754979
>i like Heck's Avengers more than Kirby's fite me

To be fair Kirby's Avengers weren't as good as his Fantastic Four or Thor. Maybe about the level of his X-Men.

>>77752831
Stan Lee.

Well, Ditko is still alive, so he wins

>>77757629
What?
I'm saying that allegedly creating the character for Ditko to draw, and the character being based on Steranko, are two separate ideas that are not mutually exclusive.

>>77757629
He means that Kirby decided to create an escape artist character based on Steranko, and then thought of handing over the character to Steve Ditko to work on.

>>77752831
Ditko for Strange Tales. But I have great respect for the King.

>>77753320
>Sounds like Steranko
Steranko is badass. Isn't he the guy who bitchslapped Bob Kane?

>>77753908
>>77754958
>>77755600
Am I the only one who liked how he drew Clea?Although Strange Tales only ever got really hot when he left and new creative team introduced Umar.
Then they introduced Zom and entire arc went to hist.

>>77755039
You are saying it like it's a bad thing.

>>77758810
I'm not, that's a great thing

>>77752831
Kirby seemed like a nicer person, but Ditko was a better artist in my opinion. And as much as I love Jack, his faces were off and his storytelling was often hamfisted

>>77753320
>>77758678
I believe Steranko made a fuss about getting paid for writing SHIELD pages that didn't have dialogue, since he was doing writing and art.
You know, since he's showing exposition that he'd have to write and plan out ahead of time, which ties into why, I assume, golden and silver age comics always had the character narrating the action in the panel with speech or thought bubbles (so they would get paid for writing more pages), and bringing the whole artistic concept of "showing, not telling" into cape comics.

And yeah, he allegedly bitch-slapped Bob Kane. You remember correctly.

>>77753193
this

>>77752891
mr. a

>>77755600
what