Batman and Robin Eternal #7

File: Batman & Robin Eternal (2015-) 007 - 003.jpg (2MB, 1987x3056px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1987x3056px

first page is just an ad for robin war

File: Batman & Robin Eternal (2015-) 007 - 020.jpg (787KB, 1987x3056px) Image search: [Google]

787KB, 1987x3056px

and that's the end

>>77546376
Nice photoreferenced background, wonder how he hides the hugeass computer from all the tourists visiting the ossuary daily..?

>>77546496
...Is it just me or is this issue really really cool, compared to the preceding stuff?

I actually liked this one.

So who is gayer, Jason/Tim or Harper/Cass?

>>77546541
lol, the astronomical clock is like 5 meters above ground in the busiest part of Prague. Very stealthy.

(Sorry, it just bugs me)

>>77546496
>that lewd hand sex

So far, Valentine and Seeley have been the best writers so far

>>77546496
Get your hands off Steph's girl, you Tumblr hipster

>>77546461
>my little batgirl can't possibly be this cute

Cass is too cute.

>>77546389
Harper is a whole lot sexier as a boy than she is a girl.

Harper's hair looks dumber with every issue.

Art's pretty nice this time around, how many artists are on this book?

File: FIGURE-012698.jpg (60KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 600x600px

>>77546441
Back to the old one?

>>77547146
Rotates. Bad art will be returning at soon. Good art will also return. Just how weeklies work.

Cass is a qt. Dick and Jason remain the most solid characters in this book. Harper is both good and annoying, I'm fine with it though. Mother finally appearing is great. That's about it.

>>77546711
it is. valentine needs to write another batbook, they can't let her slip away.

>>77546847
Too bad they're wasted on a terrible plot.

>>77547330
I think he might switch between them sometimes depending on artist preference?

>>77547435
>Jason being written as tolerable for more than 2 pages

It's hard to believe.

>>77547495

I really need her to take over Red Hood because Jason was great for once...

>>77546496
>>77546461
Cass is too fucking cute.

>>77546461
>going for handholding
I ship it.

I dare say this was most decent issue so far.
>>77547581
Amazing what happens when you have writer who isn't complete imbecile.

>>77547647
She deserves better than the Jason Todd fanbase

>>77548166
agreed.

DC should give her a Cass Cain book after B&R Eternal is done. they're already reprinting Cass' old run starting January, so I think they might be setting up the ground work for a new solo. It would be her first in many years.

>>77546496
Where's Steph? She's getting keked here

>>77548166
>Jason Todd fanbase
What fanbase?

>>77548577
It's pretty strong on tumblr.
What's strange is that they have their own headcanon version of him that they like.

>>77548166
I could see her trying to do something like Catwoman with Jason being the lesser of two evils and them not appreciating it because he's not quipping and shitting on Dick and Tim in a gay manner 24/7

>>77548353
Valentine deserves better than Cass' fanbase too

>>77548620
Lemme guess, that version doesn't involve him bitchslapping half of Gotham crime families and becoming Gotham's Kingpin? It's just "oh, he's troubled and tortured soul <3333" bullshit?

>>77548744
They should have just kept her on Catwoman honestly.

File: 1437104351060.png (752KB, 629x1000px) Image search: [Google]

752KB, 629x1000px

>>77548577
I like Jason Todd

>>77548744

Well then who's left? Have her write Dick? Then you'd leave out based King and Seeley. Batgirl or Damian? Nope you can't have that book either.

The only two options I see taking Detective Comics, but Tomasi just started a run there. It's that or a Red Robin ongoing which means Valentine will have to perform the greatest comic miracle in the Bat Books making Tim Drake an engaging character again.

Or.. put her on a team book with all these female vigilantes or the Cass Solo. Sadly not many options.

>>77546389
Fuck Cass, you're short.

>>77546357
this coloring is awesome

>>77548908
'Tec or Batwoman would be my ideal tbqh, if we have to put her on a batbook

>>77548456

Eh wait until the final issue. There will probably be a page of Steph and Cass looking at each other before Harper says, "So-- threesome?"

>>77549003
I'll be surprised if those three don't end up friends and don't get a book together.

>>77548620
Because they don't read comics

>>77546496

This is the kind of moment that would be really cool, IF THE STORY HAD EXPLAINED WHAT CASS'S POWER IS.

File: 1362338383435.jpg (177KB, 500x744px) Image search: [Google]

177KB, 500x744px

>>77548456

Steph is really getting kekolded hard by Sideshave the Hedgehog in this story.

I don't like it. Tumblr filth should keep their hands off of my girl.

>>77549175
Some do but they just get mad at every other comic with Jason in it because they hate every portrayal of Jason
Yet they continue to hate read anyway

Husbando and waifufags are the worst because of this

>>77546389
>"You work well together"

No you fucking don't, you met yesterday and have barely interacted. You're strangers.

And why the fuck does Harper know what the fuck Cass's ability is? It hasn't been demonstrated in the story in any way, and it's not like she can tell.

>>77548857
Fucking disgusting.

>>77549447
That point of that panel was her realizing that she was understanding everything.

>>77549515

No it's not. The point of that panel is that Harper remembers "oh, you had that thing, nevermind". Except "that thing" hasn't come up in this continuity yet, you'd only know what it is if you know Cass from pre-Flashpoint.

>>77549554
Thats not it at all.

Its the first time its brought up because she's sitting next to her and realizing that she gets it all.

They don't know shit about Cass. They're just now learning little things.

>>77549574

That's not how it reads, bro. Harper has no knowledge of any vision-based powers on Cass, and there is no logical way for her to infer such from just being enthralled by ballet. The scene reads exactly like she had already known about it from an earlier issue and suddenly realized that because she has the sight, this dancehall shit must be dope as fuck for her. Only, she cannot know about it.

This part is just written wrong.

>>77549666

No, it reads like Harper realizing how Harper understands things by observing her reactions to the ballet.

>>77549708

Harper realizing how Cass understands things, I mean.

Valentine for Cass/Steph/Harper Birds of Prey relaunch when?

>>77549768
I don't think her style would fit a bunch of teenage girls very well.

>>77549768
>Cass/Steph
Fans would tear you apart with whining.

>>77549768
She'll probably make them all lesbian.

>>77549854

Honestly, she's wrote the best Steph in Catwoman. She's shown she can clearly take on Cass and Harper too.

>>77549666
Both Dick and Jason have noticed that Cass can read movement.

>>77548908
Her on Batwoman would be awesome. Or a Gotham PD-centric book.

>>77548857
no you don't

>>77548577
Tzitzimine and all of his alts

>>77549941
I am okay with this.

>>77550064
Oh, yeah. Him. He's already having stroke because Red Hood doesn't have RH/A costume.

>>77549941
good

>>77550091
I can't believe that anyone seriously likes the Red Hoodie.

>>77549768

Adorable Cullen is Oracle? Faggot's Angels?

>>77550660
Tim Drake is their "Oracle"

File: 1439190321714.jpg (115KB, 1012x675px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 1012x675px

>>77549941

>>77549941
about time. they failed to make steph/cass a thing in convergence, so even if they have to add harper to make it a thing ill take it.

>>77549977

Dick and Jason are genius detectives. Well, Dick is. Harper is a nobody with a nose ring and a stun gun.

>>77550930

I still can't fathom why they gave that spinoff to a writer who, by her own admission, knew nothing about the characters.

>>77551350
Harper's been around them this entire time. I'm sure at some point, Dick was like "by the way, she seems to read body language." before sending them off together.

>>77551377

Time. They wanted a spinoff done very quickly. So they gave it to a writer who probably wrote the plot in just a day or two. Then gave it to Leonardi who so did a rush job on the comic. To a colorist who just made the comic a bleeding mess.

>>77551784
I will never forgive that comic because I was so pumped about Cass and Steph finally being in the same comic together after years and years, and then it turned out to be shit.

>>77546510
>No scars

this rustles me

>>77552092

I was mainly relieved that it wasn't as shit as Futures End: Batgirl.

Maybe that's why they put those two comics out. Lower people's expectations to the rock bottom so this half-assed comic seems better.

>>77552587
I liked Future's End: Batgirl better, if only because Cass seemed at least marginally like Cass instead of some weirdo talking about being punched in the mammaries and threatening to eat Steph's hamster.

>>77552675
I recall Cass in FE being bitter and angry, that's just a different kind of out of character.

>>77552751
Eh, she wasn't really much of anything, though the artist drew her looking angry all the time.

>>77552675

Yeah, instead she's grimacing and snarling and being reduced to a cameo in what's probably the single worst Barbara story ever written by anyone.

>>77548770
>oh, he's troubled and tortured soul <3333" bullshit?
Exactly.
I think he's actually the most popular batcharacter on tumblr, bizzarely.

>>77548166
True.
I'd like to see her not write a batcharacter at all actually.

>>77552845

The bad boy appeal is real.

>>77552845
So, my hope for Red Hood becoming Punisher with red helmet is empty hope?

This series reads like they're ticking boxes on a checklist. "This is the one where she cries." Check. "This is the one where she acts cute." Check. "This is the one where she cuts the ninja man's arm off to prove she's hardcore." Check. All of these could have been good, powerful scenes, yet there's no gravitas behind any of them. They're just rushed into, and rushed through, and rushed out of and all the reader is left with is "huh, I guess that happened". The art ranging from average to terrible doesn't exactly help.

>>77546402
Why is Tim such a manlet?

>>77553249
Teenagers are short.
Also everybody knows that Batman and the Robins must be drawn like matryoshka dolls

I like how this is unofficially the return of Dickbats. The only thing that's missing is him putting on the costume, honestly.

>>77553304
Isn't he 17? I think this is about as tall as he's gonna get.

>>77552845
No way they like him better than Dick Grayson.

>>77552871
Put her on Wonder Woman or Supergirl.

>>77553592
Well Jason barely has another role than having witty one liners once and a while and those translate well into out of context posts

>>77553575
DC hasn't given a shit about Tim's age since 2011

>>77553656
okay but...

dat ass tho

>>77553706
I wouldn't be surprised if they killed him before he manages to reach 18

>>77553759

We can hope.

>>77553708
That is objectification anon

>>77553759
Has any character had more of a fall in the New 52 than Tim? He went from being relatively well-liked and starring in fairly continuous solo books pre-reboot to no one liking or giving a shit about him in the New 52.

>>77553592
I think they might do actually. Lately on the Dick Grayson tag I've noticed more Jason Todd headcanons than Dick related stuff, and Dick actually has a fantastic ongoing to post about right now.

File: Objectification.png (218KB, 581x293px) Image search: [Google]

218KB, 581x293px

>>77553708

>>77553873
And to think Timfags called it years ago when Damian started existing and eventually became Robin.

>>77553873
Well his fall started pre-nu52. He was getting progressively worse and worse for a while.

>>77553873
It's funny because a decade ago this very sentence would have applied to Dick Grayson.

The times, they are a-changin'.

>>77553919
Some anon actually posted a link here where people from a blog post from 2007 or something said that about Dick.
I don't remember what it was but it was about Dick being irrelevant and Tim basically taking over everything.

>>77553919
Did Dick get near as bad as Tim has been though?

>>77553914
True, but people at least still seemed to care about the character. I feel like you have to hunt to find Tim fans these days because they're so beaten down by what the New 52 has done to the character.

>>77553983
They must still exist, he ranked pretty high for a character who's been shit on so much in that recent CBR poll.

>>77553983
I've seen some pretty devoted Timfans on tumblr and especially reddit.
See how many Red Robin flairs there are in /r/DCComics. More depressingly see how many Red Hood flairs there are.

>>77554003
CBR is a haven of weird opinions, though.

Based Valentine, this was the best issue so far easily.

>>77553960
>from a blog post from 2007
Not sure if this is what you're talking about, but this seems to be what you're desribing.
sevenhells.blogsp*t.com/2006/08/private-dick.html
Pretty crazy how much the status quo can change so quickly.

>>77554005
Plebs. Plebs everywhere.

>>77553971
Oh yeah.
Mid 2000s.

>2003-2007
>Devin Grayson taking over the title and ruining it after about ten issues
>Editorial ruining her run when her messing it up wasn't enough
>Him being an asshole in Outsiders during this
>He's gonna die
>Oh wait no he's not never mind
>Nightwing OYL
>Nightwing Annual #2
>Still an asshole on Outsiders
>Wolfman taking over his title and caring more about promoting Vigilante than about Dick
>Tomasi the only thing making him not complete shit
>2008 Titans

Tim having dead parents now and taking over Teen Titans really made some people paranoid about Dick basically being shit and irrelevant.
He was saved by Morrison making him Batman.

>>77554052
Why I'm so glad I have /co/. I mean, it's a total shithole here too, but at least it's not a CASUAL shithole. Where else would I go? Tumblr, reddit, CBR?
I love you guys.

>>77554058
Oh yeah, he got pretty bad, but "Tim Drake" barely exists in the New52. His backstory and relationships are totally fucked.
Idk, it seems like it would be harder to fix him.

>>77554003
Reminder that Tim was in the top 10 on the 2011 CBR poll as voted by readers.
He dropped like 20 places this time around, the poor thing. His poor fans, still having hope that he'll be good.

At least Wondy beat the Joker this time and the top 3 were the same as the 2011 poll

>>77554058
Kek. It's almost like they tried to do something similar by making Tim Drake Batman Beyond but it's not exactly going over well with everyone (although it doesn't help that they put Bland Jurgens on the title either).

>>77554096
Yeah, I think Timfags may have had it the worst in the new52,
Who else would be up there? Wally West?

>>77554090
The relationships wouldn't be fucked if the Teen Titans weren't shit for once

And his backstory would be fine if they just ignored Lobdell's shit or just focus on his parents being alive.
Though it is funny because Lobdell's mess of a backstory for Tim was him clearly trying to placate the people who want Tim to be adopted by Bruce and the people who want Tim's parents alive since that was one of the few things that made him unique.
He should've just gone one way or another tbqh

>>77554172
The Young Justice gang got fucked her in general.

RIP Kon, Cassie, and Tim.

>>77554224
*hard

>>77554224
They were fucked when they were put in the Teen Titans in the first place.
Kon was only one to escape it, since he was kind of alright after that and that was mostly because of the Superbooks. Kon is definitely worse now than he was then.
Fun 90s Superboy is best though and he's never coming back. ;_;

>>77554203
I think having his backstory done by Lobdell automatically makes it kinda shit tbqh
>>77554224
The original Titans (save Dick) aren't doing too hot either.
Roy, Wally and Donna are all in the the very worst books DC has, and their characters are pretty fucked in general too as well.

This was actually really good. Can't wait for next week. It's kind of depressing realizing one of the worst things about New 52 Batman was Batman himself. Watching all his Robins and friends do shit on their own has been really refreshing.

>>77549768
>Cass/Steph/Harper Birds of Prey relaunch
I imagine this is where this is leading, other than the fact that being called Birds of Prey wouldn't make sense.

>>77554387
Man Scott Snyder a shit.

>>77554417
I think he's just bad at writing Bruce. And the Joker.
And he's much better when he's doing small scale, instead of treating to make the Most Epic Batman Story Ever to Be Told.

>>77554505
It's a shame he's on the biggest book DC has. That and JL are pretty much used as main book for crossovers and events rather than telling smaller stories.
I do wonder if he'd be better on 'Tec where he didn't have to worry as much about destroying Gotham and "changing everything for forever"

>>77554649
>I do wonder if he'd be better on 'Tec
Since easily his best Batman book was Black Mirror which WAS on tec, maybe.
Though not writing Bruce is probably a big part of why BM worked better too.

>>77554387
>It's kind of depressing realizing one of the worst things about New 52 Batman was Batman himself.

No, I think one of the worst things was the compressed timeline and poor characterizations for everyone in general. But that's just me.

File: latest.jpg (258KB, 652x999px) Image search: [Google]

258KB, 652x999px

>>77553873

>Has any character had more of a fall in the New 52 than Tim?

>>77555311
Now THAT is The Question!

>>77554058
>He's gonna die
It's scary to think how close we were to that happening and getting a Jason Todd Nightwing instead.

>>77546496
Is Harper gay or just her brother?

Best issue so far imo. I hope they keep Valentine on Batfam books.

>>77555455
Nah. Free her to work on other characters.

>>77555452
She's probably bisexual

>>77555401
Damn, that would've been awful.

>>77554699

I think his stuff has been servicable the problem is Batman being an event book now

Whats with the multiple weird Giselle references in this?
Dick jokes about it, the Prima Ballerinas boss mentions she's lucky she isn't dancing it and the art work behind mother at the end has it.

>>77554058
>He was saved by Morrison making him Batman.
Based Morrison.
What was the response to that on /co/ like? I think elsewhere it was mainly outrage about Damian replacing Tim and people seemed mainly "meh" about Dick as Bruce would be back soon anyway.
Was it the same here?

>>77555401
If they let Jason undergo character development and relationship development it might've been cool, but Dick would've come back after a couple years and all of that would get thrown in the trash.

>>77555638

It made /co/ retroactively love Morrison's run. It was pretty overhyped and talking I'll of it was the easiest way to derail a thread.

It was an OK book if you ask me.

>>77555699
I meant the response before it actually came out, sorry.
With "it" do you mean Morrison's run in general or his B&R?

>>77555699
As someone who had read some really shitty bat books through the 2000's, it was definitely a breath of fresh air

>>77555638
Most loved it after it actually began but I don't remember the reactions to it being announced.

>>77546461
I think I'm starting to warm up to Harper now? Maybe it's because B&R Eternal is already so much better than Batman Eternal or maybe it's just from how much I'm enjoying her relations with Steph and Cass. Either way, she's not as obnoxious anymore. I like it.
Also, not a cassfag, but what a qt.

>>77555638
>Was it the same here?
Probably

>>77546496
Man this would be a really really great page if the art was just a notch better.

>>77555779

remember that we were terrified babs was the new BaBatgirl and worried about Tim because he had just started to work towards being a bit more tolerable again. No one was happy about Damien because he wasn't liked until B&R started developing him more.

Morrison's run at the time was mocked every thread with only a few shills but after B&R it became a sea of people trying to defend even the worst parts of his run.

>>77555585
A review I just read also said the set design for the ballet was more suited for Giselle than Sleeping Beauty.

Also:
Giselle is about a woman who dies of a broken heart when she discovers that her true love is betrothed to another. In the story, women who have been jilted become vengeful spirits in the afterlife who seek out men and force then to dance themselves to death. When the spirits set their sights on Giselle’s former lover, she intervenes and saves him from certain death.

So, what are they going for with this Giselle shit?

>>77555974
kek, how quick did the opinion change?
Were people against Dick as Batman when it was announced?

>>77546595
Man this is so much better than the first volume of Eternal. I can dig maybe someone else pulling "Mothers" strings, but for the most part it seems like she's going to be the big bad the whole way through, instead of dicking us around like they have no clue what they're doing

Probably has to do with the shorter number of issues for B&R Eternal.

>>77556084

Most of us knew it wouldn't last so bith of them being Batman was just so exciting.

Steph was accepted but the waifu wars raged on.

Tim had a great book and Cass was slowly being fixed and had potential to be great again. It was a good time to be a fan.

Everyone came to love the new status quo real fast so come two years later and its annilated we were all pretty bummed...

>>77556093

It's refreshing most Bat stories like this use Loeb's villain format. Even Eternal did so one big bad has been fun.

>>77556225
>Tim had a great book
Wasn't this around the time of shitty batman jr Tim?

>>77556093
I don't know, man. BE was pretty good for the firs 15 or so issues. This has been a mediocre mess with chunks of shit in it.

>>77556278

It was better than he had been in years anon you need to understand at the time it was the best he was going to be...

>>77556278
That was mostly the last half of it, yeah.

>>77556258
Right. Which I don't mind if handled right. Showcasing an entire rogues gallery in one story is pretty neat but when you fuck up the pacing so bad like in Batman Eternal, it turns to shit real quick. Not that it was all bad, but god that pacing was awful.

This is much simpler and yet the threat feels like it's bigger and being treated more seriously. Although I wonder when they're going to get around to including Bruce and/or Gordon in this book. I kind of like Batman being left out of this story aside from flashbacks.

>>77556344
Bruce was #4 and #5

>>77553592
THey only really enjoyed Dick when they all felt that they could basically headcannon him into acting like a mentally challenged 11 year old. When the portion of tumblr that actually read the stories with Dick in them started getting tired of this basically started revolting against this they all stopped. Since most of the Jason Todd fanbase on tumblr hasn't read much of anything with Jason in it they just do whatever. Besides Dick lacks the tortured past appeal that makes them think they could heal Dick with their love.

>>77555311
You could easily relegated what has happened to him thus far as a drug riddled fever dream. The Question has dabbled in it before.

File: batman eternal 11 bertram.jpg (1MB, 1988x3056px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1988x3056px

>>77556314
It's only 7 issues in so far. I'm not too critical of it and I'm enjoying it for the most part. I agree that Batman Eternal was fun for a good while. Certainly a lot better art, but man did it shit the bed. Maybe I'm enjoying this a lot more since my standards are lowered from that whole book.

Side note: I really, really hope they eventually get in a couple issues of some more unexpected artists like pic related


>>77556357
Oh right, I forget he was in there just a few weeks ago. But I meant actually being a part of the present-day plot and contributing something to the story other than "Amnesia! Oh no, help!"

>>77556390

Jason's fanbase rationalzies and ignores all the stuff he has ever done even when shown. It's gonna be interesting if we do get an Under the Redhood live action movie...

>>77556419
The art from your pic made Scorpiana look so cool though

>>77556419

The February stuff mentions him fighting orphan but I imagine that's flashbacks.

>>77556419
But what I'm saying is that if you compare these 7 issues with the first 7 of Eternal then those are better. But yeah, it really went downhill, the middle is the worst, last several issues are not good either but damn, that middle. Eternal had a lot of great artists, yeah but some bad ones too and RM Guerra really phoned it in in that one issue.

>>77556440
I feel like this would only make things worse.

>>77556440
>It's gonna be interesting if we do get an Under the Redhood live action movie...
Fuck, the Jason Todd tumblr fangirls are bad enough, this would be horrifying.

>>77556540
It'll be like with Loki but probably worse

>>77556390
>Besides Dick lacks the tortured past appeal that makes them think they could heal Dick with their love.
I'm surprised they didn't love Devin Grayson's rape arc.
Okay, I'm not really surprised.

>>77556390

Now I'm kinda curious. What were some of the headcannons for Dick on Tumblr?

>>77556503

This one feels more like an uphill climb to me. Like its going to read a hell of a lot better when all 26 issues are out.

>>77554101

I'm still not sure why that exists. If people are reading a Batman Beyond comic they are going to want Terry and when Timfags cry for a solo they probably wanted Red Robin

>>77556559
Much worse I think, but I actually like comics Loki so I'm biased.

>>77556565
Well for one he's usually acts like a hyperactive 10 year old

>>77556568
I don't think so. This is both bad premise and bad execution. Eternal had a good premise, just kind of a shitty execution.

>>77556565
Basically that he's a hyperactive ten year old constantly needs hugs and is made of pure sunshine.
Kinda like what some of the crazies are accusing SeeKing's run of being.
And then you've got the ones that love complete asshole Dick too.

>>77556582
DC's decisions can be quite retarded at times. They were to please everyone, instead they please no one.

>>77556582
I've seen some Timfags/fangirls on tumblr who really like it - probably just because Tim is Batman.

>>77556619
>>77556594
Haha, how awful. I guess I shouldn't be so surprised, this is Tumblr we are talking about, after all.

>>77556582
They don't want a tradition street level solo right now.
'Tec, Batman, Batgirl, and Green Arrow are basically the only ones of any importance. And even 'Tec was Gotham Central for a hot moment. They get rid of Nightwing to make Grayson so they could have spy shit, and they've tried to diversify the street level stuff that was left.
Also they don't want to take any attention away from Teen Titans. Because at least half of the sales for TT could probably be attributed to Tim and Superboy.

>>77556668
>this is Tumblr we are talking about, after al
Tumblr Batfandom seems a lot worse than the other fandoms I've been a part of (mainly various TV shows and anime)
They've all had the same problem of shitty fanon and typical tumblr being tumblr, but it just seems much worse to the point where I don't bother anymore, save for a small handful of blogs I follow

>>77556668
The funny thing is Devin Grayson was the one who made Dick act like that in canon, especially across multiple books.. being unable to sit still, rambling on all the time, being pretty moody, being accidentally insensitive towards others feelings due to rambling on and on, etc. So they latch onto that despite her run being very hated due to the misconception that it's just constant raping of their husbando.

>>77546441

I may just be tired, but I don't get Tim and Jason's conversation.

>>77556714
More like all the sales.
Is Superboy still in that? I don't follow Titans idiocy anymore.

>>77556811
Yeah he's been in the past couple issues
I remember him showing up in the annual

>>77556790
I get, and mostly agree with what you're saying, but I haven't seen a lot of Dick being "moody" or insensitive to others, just mainly one-note Mr Always Sunshine with no personality.

>>77556790
That headcanon is actually older than her run. They just like it because the stars aligned and a book matched what they already thought.
>>77556792
I think it's suggesting that Tim is putting on an act as well as doing a traditional lethal weapon team-up.

>>77556919
Is Devin Grayson the source of the headcannon herself? I hear she was a fanfic writer before getting DC work, after all.

>>77556909
Eh, the insensitivity mostly happened with Barbara. That was pretty much their relationship with Grayson was writing it. She'd have Babs be completely done with him and Dick would often be clueless and ramble on about shit and ignore what Babs had to say.

>>77556979
I don't know, but I doubt it. I remember that being something floating around for a long time, not an idea with a single obvious source. It's a pretty obvious direction to take the character if you want to make him more suitable for slashing.

>>77556792

Tim us saying Dick isn't willing to accept Bruce might be in the wrong and Jason more or less said Tim probably assumed he would have understood why Tim did it but really he doesn't hense the better find him

>>77557110
>not an idea with a single obvious source. It's a pretty obvious direction to take the character if you want to make him more suitable for slashing.
This, there are some set archetypes in fandom that people always seem to try and make the characters fit into

It was actually interesting being really involved in a (manga) fandom from its birth, and seeing the fanon first being born until it was everywhere.

>>77554005
I like it when people on /r/dccomics use the Red Hood flairs. It saves me the trouble from having to RES tag them as idiots, since they all bitch and moan about the same things, like people not liking Lobdell, or women reading comics.

>>77557424
kek.
>bitch women reading comics.
I want to see Jason Todd fanboys and fangirls fight

>>77557511
*bitch about
Incase it wasn't clear.

>>77554058
Funny enough, around that same time, you had Geoff Johns and Mark Waid nearly revolting to keep Dick alive. Johns beat the "Dick is the heart of the DCU" drum pretty loudly in Infinite Crisis. Loeb wrote him as the one guy who gets to talk back to Batman and get away with it.

>>77554406
Chicks of Prey

>>77557562
>tfw we will never get the Mark Waid Nightwing run he wanted to write

>>77554505
God, Black Mirror was so good. Wish Snyder would write a meeting between Dick and Jim Gordon.

>>77557628
Feels bad, man.

>>77557632
>write a meeting between Dick and Jim Gordon.
How would that go?

>>77556278
It was on par with say... Tomasi's Nightwing. Not groundbreaking, but still enjoyable if you were a fan of the character.

>>77557562
>Loeb wrote him as the one guy who gets to talk back to Batman and get away with it.
Wasn't that like 3 or 4 years before Infinite Crisis though

>>77556790
>just constant raping of their husbando.
I would read that book

>>77557760

In the time it was written it was seen better because it was really the best Tim had been in quite sometime... Wasn't Beechan writing the Robin book?

>>77558183
Same

There isn't even that any fic with Dick that's about that

>>77558421
>There isn't even that any fic with Dick that's about that

>tfw you can only find one Dick rape fic.
Why.

>>77558502
Surely there's more

>>77558714
Feel free to post any you find.

>>77558502
Where?

>>77559063
http://archiveofourown.org/works/1022845/chapters/2035088
There's also a TT Robin one.
http://archiveofourown.org/works/1996998

>>77557760

Doesn't this describe everything Tomasi has written? Good but not amazing?

>>77559658
He's BatJurgens.

>>77548456
They forgot about her in Gotham for some reason.

>>77559736
Isn't Jurgens BatJurgens too?

>>77559736
I think Jurgens is more mediocre than "good"

>>77559658
And Gleason's art made his B&R better than his average stuff imo

>>77559736
Jurgens has been shit since this millennium dude.
He's easily the most offensively boring writer employed by the big 2 currently.

>>77559757
Other than Batman Beyond, Jurgens has written some Batman shit in the past?

>>77559786
Paul Levitz though.

>>77559786

JLI was just so fucking boring... And I love Booster but he was taking up so much panel space...

How could they have botched that up so hard... We could have had an amazing comedy Justice League title...

>>77560781
Fucking Jurgens, man. He's the worst at being most boring.

>>77560781
>>77560882
The first arc was boring. Then it took a sudden turn to misery porn where half the cast was benched and no fun was allowed.

>>77559894
Levtiz is close but I feel like he at least had a few good issues scattered over the past few years, maybe a DC Universe presents story or two. Jurgens also KILLED the previous Booster Gold title, which is a double sin because he created the character and doesn't know when to let go.

>>77560781
>>77559786
I liked the Converance issues

>>77561235

That was Ron Marz and it was the original JLI.

We're talking about the New52 reboot version that was a serious straight story.

Only good to come out of it is that Booster and Batman's relationship was allowed to stay generally the same.

Holy shit, I was close to dropping this but this issue was actually somewhat good. Writing much better, art much better, colouring much better. Less "house style" feel about it. I'm impressed, guess I should check out Valentine's Catwoman.

>>77555585
>>77555983
Well they mentioned that Dick and Bats went to the Prague ballet before, so I assumed it was Giselle being performed then. It might be in the next issue.

>>77561144
I kinda like his Dr. Fate although it is slow. It's the best thing he's done in awhile, at least.

>>77558714
I once found a fic where Helena raped Tarantula as payback for Dick. It was odd.

>>77562903
LINK?

>>77546582
Here is where the orchestra goes from playing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSvNjhEPh7I
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3472Q6kvg0
with the conductor on vocals.

>>77562903
That is hilarious

It's not on ao3 is it?

>>77559658
Tomasi does good character work. His plots can be solid or passable but forgettable, but most of his stuff is enjoyable to read. Which makes him a good to write all the B-tier books (B&R, GLC, etc)

>>77562933
>>77562960
ugh, can't find it. might have been on someone's livejournal or something

>>77562903
>>77562933
>>77562960

Wait, this is it, I think. It's weirder than I thought

http://teh-no.livejournal.com/30560.html

File: Adam Beechen04.jpg (302KB, 978x1503px) Image search: [Google]

302KB, 978x1503px

>>77551377
>I still can't fathom why they gave that spinoff to a writer who, by her own admission, knew nothing about the characters.
Tradition.

File: 1441099063233.jpg (50KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 1280x720px

>>77563302

I wanted to forget..

Why did they think this was a good idea... Gail's OYL pitch for Cass wasn't all that amazing but it was better than this...

>>77551377
she did read steph's batgirl run, but she admitted reading little of tim's stuff and nothing of cass' run (the run which CREATED the friendship between cass and steph to begin with)

>>77563227
Oh dear. Oh yeah.

Thanks.

>>77563227
W-what...

>>77556415
>Jesus fuck, I'm never chewing on a pineal glad again!

File: Convergence - Batgirl (2015) 001-023.jpg (2MB, 3975x3056px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3975x3056px

>>77563302

Honestly the thing that pissed me most of Convergence: Batgirl wasn't the rushed art, colors, or romance writing. Nope it was in the profiles for the characters. Stephanie gets a lengthy profile that talks of both her careers as Spoiler and Batgirl, even puts in a paragraph of her relationship with Damian.

Cassandra? One paragraph of No Man's Land. The rest? FREAKING OYL!!! Then instead of using something from her ongoing or even as Black Bat it uses both pictures from Batgirl Vol. 2?! DA HELL!? Why? Why must you bring up the things you shouldn't?!

>>77564528
DC doesn't care about Cass, I think you would know this by now.

>>77564528
The interview that the author did before Convergence made it clear that it was going to be a Steph book, even though Steph retired right after the dome went up.

>>77564624

But why mention the one thing you shouldn't for Cassandra? Heck it doesn't even list her as Black Bat. >>77564560

Someone might. Possibly... Hopefully... Oh who am I kidding?!

File: Batfamily112.png (3MB, 1914x975px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1914x975px

>>77564528
Remember how Cass got completely left out of the abridged history of the Batfamily in Steph's run?

>>77564560

I think that Cass is tricky because they're so worried about fucking up again.

Steph? Steph undermines Barbara. She had just gotten through with an incredibly well received run and now Babs was gonna be Batgirl again and Steph just had to leave.

Cass? Cass they had fucked up and she never really recovered from that plus her character development lost part of what made people love her.

Steph suffered from the reboot, she didn't need be set back to square one... Cass? Cass is going back to what made her so great in the first place before OYL fucked her over.

>>77553613
Supergirl would be good. At least it would be better than the show. None of DC's books right now that are directly related to a show are actually better than the show. It's sad to see how bad The Flash and Green Arrow are comparatively.

Also De Liz has to take over Wonder Woman. I like my Diana being a qt. She's 23. She can be cute and badass.

>>77553885
What is wrong with some of the people of this day and age?

>>77554032
At least they ranked Dick at #3, where he should be.

File: 1445034204800.jpg (113KB, 709x538px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 709x538px

>>77563227
>http://teh-no.livejournal.com/30560.html

>>77556470
I wasn't dissing the art from that issue at all, I was actually one of the ones that loved seeing something so different. I really loved it.

>>77547073
... you sure that's a guy, not a dyke?

>>77565297
Because muh Under the Red Hood.

>>77564682
And nothing of value was lost.

File: He hates Jason so much he lurk tumblr and posted it in co.jpg (312KB, 1090x1712px) Image search: [Google]

312KB, 1090x1712px

>>77548166
>>77548620
Would you hate a character so much you dig through tumblr just to search for a dumb sentence so you can post on /co/?

>>77565297
Green Arrow is much better than the show though.

>>77570453
Sometimes you just stumble across crap like this on tumblr often looking for gay porn
It's not really rare.

>>77570476
Really?
I haven't watched the show since season 2 (I know how bad it got in 3 though) but that seems hard to believe.

>>77570590
I don't mind actually. It's just that copying and quoting each sentence about it was quite a work. He's really dedicated to his hatred.

It amuse me.

>>77546376
>He'd just lost a foot
I'm pretty damn sure it was his fucking arm.

>>77547495
I hope she gets Cass, Harper and Steph in one book book after this series.

Holy shit. This was terrible. And you guys said Valentine would do a good job.

>>77548770
It's one that ran entire comparision between scenes of Jason in classic comics before he died and with what characters now say he was back then. Like:
>Modern Batman: Jason was never skilled enough to be Robin
next to
>Page from old comics with Bruce talking that Jason shows much more skill than Dick at this time of training
Or
>Modern Raven: Even as a Robin Jason always felt full of rage and hatred
Next to
>Scenes from classic Jason meeting Teen Titans and acting like a squeeling fangirl and telling Donna Troy what a honor it is to meet her with a giant grin on his face

>>77551703
Good job no-prizing it; you can do that for nearly everything. DOesn't make the writing any less shit.

>>77563227
underrated post

>>77571937
Have you read the previous issues?
I'd say this was the best one so far, but no writer can save us from Tynion's plotting.

>>77571937
are you kidding, this is one of the best issues so far. it's nothing amazing, but it's a step up for sure and has a decent pacing to set up the next issue

>>77571937
This is great compared to the previous issues.

>>77558239
>Wasn't Beechan writing the Robin book?

Yes. It was awful. Beechen -- and to a lesser extent, Willingham -- were the architects of Tim's decline.

When Yost came around and started RR, it felt like gold only because Tim had been such utter shit for a while. It was pretty much the best that could be done with him at that point.

>>77574549
Didn't Tim's decline start when they killed his parents and making him miserable?

>>77574549
Who wrote the RR in which Tim was The Smartest Detective Ever with ultimate plot powers

>>77574629
You mean the one where he beat Ra's (but in truth Ra's was only testing him so he could send one of his descendants to get his seed. )? Yost.
Trying to rid certain sections of Gotham and also plan for an alibi for his vigilante persona and his regular life when someone put a hit out on his identity? - Fabian

>>77574629
Tim was already an insufferable Mini-Bruce by that point. He retained his plot armor/plot powers, but at least the first half of the run was enjoyable. It also had him get over being a buttblasted twat, which he'd been for some time.

After being shit for so long, anything better seemed great at the time. In hindsight, it's memorable only for being a small upturn after a long downhill roll.

>>77574608
Yes but there was a really obvious decline by OYL. Both TT and his solo got really bad at this point.

>>77574608
It started when Chuck Dixon left

>>77577622
Which time?

File: 1444604357111.jpg (59KB, 400x625px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 400x625px

>>77575562
I thought for the most part. McKeever's TT was great. So much better than Beechen's and what came after. So much focus on Eddie, Jaime, Bombshell, and Rose. Plus Tim chastising Eddie and Jaime while in his underwear still make's me crack up.

>>77575104
Ah yes, Tim Drake fans' favorite moment, when he became the second Robin to be called "detective" by Ras al Ghul.

>>77579608
Ra's al Ghul is such a great villain but everytime he appeared in the last decade or so he's been shat on.

>>77579608
It's hilarious how some latch onto to that moment as proof that Tim is the best but
>second
??

>>77579729
Ras calls Dick "Detective" in Tomasi's Nightwing after Bruce's death.

>>77579878
Really? How does no one bring that up when everyone's always going on about the Tim thing? It was around the same time kinda.

>>77580161

I forget why he even calls him that? Didn't Dick figure out where Ra's was and then showed up at his location to tell him he'd be watching over something?

Bump
>>77580302
Anyone know?

>>77580161
It is brought up, it's just some fans ignore anything that doesn't support their headcanons. And then, if that same conversation took place, but without anyone who would bring up something that would contradict the aforementioned headcanons, then those particular fans wouldn't say anything either. Thus, "ignorance" spreads.

>>77581384
So this is going to make me regret it. But-- I seem to recall Ra's jobbing to Jason in RH&TO during the infamous League of Assassin arc (ex. Jason one-shotting Lady Shiva, and Bronze Kitty). I have the downloads.. but I repressed the storyline for REASONS. I'm almost curious to see if Ra's calls Jason that in the arc now.

>>77581434
RHATO storytime of pain maybe sometime?
I've actually only read the first couple of issues, and a few infamous panels like the "blood swords", but it seems like a fun comic to read with /co/ making fun of it. And alcohol.

>>77581498

I'd be down for this. This way when I bitch about it being shit I can at least be talking from experience and not out of my ass.

>>77581547
>>77581547
>I can at least be talking from experience and not out of my ass.
W-what is tzitzimine was right all along?

>>77581498

I might need a big bottle of booze to make it through the entire story if I do it.

>>77581434
I don't think so. But I'm pretty sure Talia banged Jason. I think that might be the bigger accomplishment.

It'd be kind of funny if it turned out that Ra's couldn't tell the difference between the Bruce,Dick,Tim and Jason. They retcon'd it into him thinking they were all the same person.

>>77581384
This falls back into Tumblr's desire for the Bat characters to all be put into special boxes where they have special talents while sucking in the other categories.

>>77581908
>They retcon'd it into him thinking they were all the same person.
I want this now. They look identical anyway.

>>77581908
>This falls back into Tumblr's desire for the Bat characters to all be put into special boxes
I wish it was just tumblr, but it's the writers too. See Tynion's comments about the Robins all representing a different part of Bruce.

>>77581908

That'd just make Ra's look stupid.

I'm fine with Tim being the best detective-wise.

I don't really need each batkid to fall into a special box and out right sucking but it's nice when they're varied. Cass being the most skilled, Jason being pure brute force, Dick being nimble, Tim being a great detective, Babs being a genius.

But Tumblr takes it too far. They take something that's partially true and blow it out of proportions and get pissy when people disagree.

>>77582148
Yeah, it's when it goes from "Tim is the best detective" to "Tim is the only detective Robin" that it becomes terrible.
Also making Tim boastful and smug about his intelligence just makes him insufferable imo - he's just not one of those characters that can get away with it.

>>77582148
And that's part of what makes a good character.
Being specialized, but not to the point of being retarded in every other thing. It worked for Cass because of character development.

That's not how you write a story, it's how you make a DnD PC.

>>77582287
>it's how you make a DnD PC.
Exactly.
People keep treating the Robins like RPG classes rather than characters.
In actuality, they all have pretty similar skills.

>>77582287
>>77582387

I'd say they're a bit like DnD PC's but not in the same way Tumblr wants them to be.

Tumblr wants them to pour all their resources into one stat when in actuality they're a nice even spread.

Tim can be the best detective, but it doesn't diminish his capabilities as a fighter and a acrobat... But that also doesn't mean Dick can't be better than him at it.

I'd argue together they make a nice well rounded party and alone they make for nice well rounded characters.

Tumblr forces them into this place where they only make a good party and that isn't how you write a character.

>>77582148
>That'd just make Ra's look stupid.

He's been passed around like a peace-pipe to the other Batcharacters, he already looks stupid.

>>77582387
Which is what makes it so hilarious when you run across post on the website where they claim they'd know how to write the characters best.

>>77564528

God fuck, I forgot that part completely. Fcuking unbelievable. DC KNOWS everyone hated that storyline. They know. Why the fuck would they bring it up when it's not even relevant?

>>77563427

Gail's idea was, if possible, even fucking worse than Beechen's and would have ruined the character just as badly if not worse.

It's depressing to think that those were probably the only two ideas anyone in that clown school submitted. I would fucking work for free if I got to write her, and I would surely do a better job than that. Anyone would.

>>77582947
What is it with these noobs who know very little about comics but pretend to be experts?
We were all casuals once, but I don't remember claiming that I knew all about "x" when I'd only read one run of it and watched the movie.

>>77583107

Was it even Beechen's idea? I thought he just got stuck with it and even he didn't like it.

Gail's idea was shit but it feels more like it could have been reversed without any effort. Just never mention Cass found god.

Cass should have been on the boat with Bruce and the Robins...

>>77583276
Tomasi was the editor on Robin (he's always made a point never to mention or bring the character up. In comparison, Didio himself brought up Cass in the final issue of Outsiders) Though the issues give thanks to Eddie Berganza. So pick your editorial poison.

>>77581908
>It'd be kind of funny if it turned out that Ra's couldn't tell the difference between the Bruce,Dick,Tim and Jason.
I want this

File: David Cain05.jpg (331KB, 935x1524px) Image search: [Google]

331KB, 935x1524px

>>77583276
>Cass should have been on the boat with Bruce and the Robins...
Cass was doing work in Gotham while Bruce and the boys decided to leave the shop to Harvey Fucking Dent. Also, she should have at least been a part of the "twice named daughter of Kane" prophesy thing since Cassandra spells her name like the commonly accepted version of the biblical character.

>>77585384

Time to be upset as fuck again that David Cain no longer exists.

>>77585504
>implying Orphan isn't going to be him

File: David Cain06.jpg (351KB, 935x1524px) Image search: [Google]

351KB, 935x1524px

>>77585504
Half of me thinks David Cain is the Orphan, but if he wanted to "talk" to his daughter, he wouldn't try to monologue her to death. He'd just use his fists.

>>77581603
Don't worry, he won't be.

>>77585526

Even if they call him David at some later point, he's clearly not the same character in any way that matters. Not even a similar character.

>>77585652
Alright

>>77585652

It's sad but you're right...

Only way we could save things is if David was pulling Mother's strings all along.

File: Lady Shiva12.jpg (447KB, 944x835px) Image search: [Google]

447KB, 944x835px

>>77585652
A lot of that going around.

>>77585791

I just read that for the first time and a lot of that can be salvaged.

Shiva herself never says she's Dick's age everyone just assumes she is, she kicks the shit out of him so she's still the best, and a quick haircut and costume change fixes the shivasuarus crap.

Unless she appeared somewhere outside of that Nightwing arc... I hope not...

>>77585791

Come to think of it, changing David Cain to a weirdo fear-gas-junkie in a Mortal Kombat costume would be fairly consistent with how DC has been handling Cass's parents so far.

If that's what they're seriously doing, it's a fucking miracle that Cass herself has been just dull, not outrageously offensive.

>>77585927
Yeah and the old Shiva jobbed plenty of times before and others could still use her fine

File: shivasaurus fights need benny hill music.jpg (417KB, 994x753px) Image search: [Google]

417KB, 994x753px

>>77585927
>Unless she appeared somewhere outside of that Nightwing arc... I hope not...

I've got bad news for you anon.

>>77585927
>Unless she appeared somewhere outside of that Nightwing arc... I hope not...
She jobbed to Jason in RHATO

>>77585968
>old Shiva jobbed plenty of times before

Never this badly. In all of her career, pre-FP Shiva never, ever jobbed this badly.

Jason defeated Shivasaurus with one hand chop. She's done for, there's no way to use her again except as comic relief.

File: 1447213465316.gif (2MB, 345x386px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 345x386px

>>77585985

At least the design is better....?

>>77585384

But that was a retcon. Originally, Harvey was alone in his vigilante ways until near the tail end of 52 in the World War III one-shots that then showed Slade talking to Cass to step up the Slade-juice angle for Titans East out that same time.

>>77585652

I want to think Orphan is David Cain. He has the same overall look and hairstyle given the flashback from the previous issue of B&RE. Just that he's A.) a different ethnic background (Egyptian if we take into the finale of #1 of this series). B.) Obviously pulling major strings given the last issue.

Honestly, I've fully accepted David getting Cluemastered in this. This is his "big" story and then killed off.

I'm still pondering if "Mother" is an elder woman who once had the moniker of Lady Shiva, but who knows?

In the end I just want a fist-fight Cass and whomever the end boss that turns into Dick and Cass vs. whomever is the final boss.

>>77586022

The best way is to pull the Prometheus retcon. That the Shiva we've seen in the New 52 is just an heir who is then taken out by the real one because she's tainting the title then honoring it.

I don't think she's so far been called Sandra in the New 52.

File: Lady Shiva18.png (961KB, 604x738px) Image search: [Google]

961KB, 604x738px

>>77585985
And don't forget this classic moment.

>>77586022
Nobody even reads RHATO or Deathstroke, she's fine

>>77586121
But how can Jason be the best assassin if she doesn't job to him in one page??

>>77586094

She could be Cass's big sister... And then whichever writer takes on a Cass book can make her an actual character and threat.

>>77586094
Or they could just ignore it since nobody gives a fuck about any of the books she's appeared in.

>>77586198
Unless Big Sis Shiva Cain was trained wrong as a joke.

>>77586042
>I want to think Orphan is David Cain

He probably has a partially similar role in that he was the one who raised and trained Cass (based on the previous issue, the scene where he was monologuing some very un-Cain-like stupid shit and got his arm chopped off - he said something to the effect of "I made her that way"). He might even still be Cassandra's biological father (in which case he can't be related to the kid in the alley - I'm sure DC isn't suicidal enough to change Cass's race and expect fans not to riot), but that won't matter really. He may be a "David" but he's not David.

David Cain had three major defining traits: he's a ruthless bastard, he's extremely competent, and he loves his daughter. Truly, deeply loves her. Orphan has shown some ruthlessness, little competence, and no love whatsoever. He comes across as an upper tier henchman, nothing more.

The pre-FP character he actually most resembles is Mad Dog, the other survivor of the program that created Cass (before Beechen started throwing dozens more into the mix like it was nothing at all); he's like a lucid, non-animalistic version of him. A big brother type more than a father figure.

>>77586198
>She could be Cass's big sister

No. She's a fucking joke. The way she is, she would just drag Cass down.

And Cass isn't exactly well established in this continuity to begin with. Basically all the writers did was have her beat up Dick, like that's all you need to do to be called a tough gal around here. In the very next issue she was losing a bar fight against Jason.

It looks like there's going to be a big fight scene in the next issue. They had better actually have her do the cool stunts she's known for instead of just putting in a standard cape brawl and calling it a day. Puckett and Scott went to great pains building up her cred, devoted page after page for it, and so far Nu52 has been literally just "welp you beat up this one guy so I guess you're pretty great".

>>77586326
>little competence
To be fair, he's mostly been fighting Cass.

>>77586149
>Nobody even reads RHATO or Deathstroke, she's fine
>>77586210
>Or they could just ignore it since nobody gives a fuck about any of the books she's appeared in.

Ignoring it won't work. There's always some asshole who digs up the buried shame.

>>77586318

She was rejected. She failed as a student as she was never able to learn how speak through movements. Ignored and unwanted she left to train on her own where she was able to build a name for herself by basically building herself up as this great assassin by using her mother's old legacy. In trust she's a pretty shitty one.

She realizes quickly in her attempt to kill her sister for abandoning everything she wanted that she's a failure and soon switches to smarter tactics and alternate ways besides just openly charging towards her.

Big Sis Shiva slowly shifts more into a Penguin-like role as she gives up on being a fighter (Though still trains) and starts working as a bit of a broker and handler of young street rats she begins to train to serve as her assassins.

In the process she creates a low rent League of Assassins that's just filled with cheap mediocre kids and teenagers that really are only useful for performing easy kills. At least at first. Slowly they'd be worked into a bigger threat as things go on.

rate my fanfic /co/!

>>77586466

The thing is, Cass isn't established yet in this story or world. She doesn't have the cred she used to have. We know from pre-Flashpoint universe that if she's anything like her old self, not losing instantly to her already means you're tough as fuck. But this Cass doesn't have that weight. This Cass has done nothing special so far, nothing that couldn't have been done by any upper mid-tier cape, so losing to her twice (and not really doing anything else so far) just makes Orphan look like a chump.

>>77586624

To be fair only Coldsteel The Hedgehog has really been able to get a hit on her.

>>77586754

And Jason. Which kind of drags the whole thing down because Jason is nothing special, no matter how many secret voodoo dimensions he's been in.

>>77586798

>Implying Jason isn't Coldsteel