ITT: Irredeemable characters

Irredeemable characters don't exist. Only irredeemable stories.

You know who's really irredeemable? The hired assassin who slept with a underage and mentally unstable girl while using her in his plan to kill teenagers.

>>77427833
In this situation, I agree.

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>>77427672
Ant-Man

>>77428283
>that same panel
Bendis?

>>77428283
And also whoever laid out this page.

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>>77428283
You posted the wrong one.

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>>77428331
No I didn't.

>>77428331
The saddest part isn't that he never lived down slapping Janet that one time, but that it's considered his worst deed when he's building a robot to attack the Avengers ON THE SAME PAGE.

But hitting a woman is the worst thing a man can possibly do, because women are delicate little children.

>>77428491
I was reading something about this the other day, he hits her once when he's in the middle of going gaga and everyone assumes that he's a domestic abuser for the rest of time.

If it had been anyone else there instead of her, he'd have hit them. Didn't matter who it was.

>>77428283
Wait, is he irredeemable or incorrigible?

>>77428524
Yep. Pym is canonically batshit insane. Everything is fine and nice, all of sudden he falls into depression and starts doing weird shit.
Know what's best part? How everyone knows he hit Janet, from Osborn to that cunt reporter from Frontline.

>>77428316
Yes Bendis draws now

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>>77428331
Millar pls

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>>77428283
So close anon but it's the other character on the page that's irredeemable. Because there is no way that Marvel can do a storyline where she isn't shit in it. Even when the fucking book is about her.

>>77428524
It wasn't even in the script, the artist either misunderstood the direction he was given or just decided to add it for whatever reason

>>77427833
exactly. There is no bad characters, only bad writers who can't make them interesting.

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The franchise anyway

>>77431005
she used to be great.

25 years ago...

>>77427672
As much as I love the Judas Contract...

There probably were better ways to make it clear she was "irredeemable" than showing her smoking and fucking Deathstroke.

>>77431315
She also came close to blowing her cover because she couldn't keep her murder boner in her pants during training. And she would have killed the Titans after they were captured just to watch the life drain from their faces. Hell, she made Raven look her over twice, and Raven is Raven.

Terra WANTED to be a hardcore cape-killer, she just bumbled a lot.

>>77431371
I know, those were the more "subtle" tells.
But the scene that seals the deal is the one where she's shown sleeping with Slade.
Despite having read the story about how that was written before, that detail hit me since I heard it straight from Marv Wolfman's mouth recently.
That the scene was designed to make it absolutely clear that she wasn't the kind of villain you could redeem or turn good.

On the other hand it was amusing to see him still honestly entertained about the fact that he spent 3 hours discussing the best way to kill a 15 year old girl in a NY dinner and "nobody even turned their head or bothered when they heard two men arguing about killing a little girl".

>>77428335
Underrated post

>>77428335
I really should finish reading that.
It's done, right? It seemed like it would be a well-contained miniseries but it kept running on a bit too long.
Not particulary original (hell-o Miracleman Junior) but it was still a good read.

>>77431555
Yeah, it endend some time ago.

>>77427672
Wrong Terra, dumdum.

>>77427891
that's not Lin

>>77431667
Good call. Whoops!

>>77431005

Looks like a transgender Captain America with a faggy sash for a belt. How empowering

>>77431667
This is the right one,although I find it hypocritical that she was considered a monster while the writers tried and failed to redeem Deathstroke.

>>77431477
>I know, those were the more "subtle" tells.
>But the scene that seals the deal is the one where she's shown sleeping with Slade.
>Despite having read the story about how that was written before, that detail hit me since I heard it straight from Marv Wolfman's mouth recently.
>That the scene was designed to make it absolutely clear that she wasn't the kind of villain you could redeem or turn good.
Huh. No offense, but that's such a Russo way of doing it; marking a character by swerving away from the direction people would normally expect them to take.

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>>77431764
No, this is the irredeemable one. The one OP posted did nothing wrong.

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All of them. Every single one of them sans Bunker and BB are unlikeable assholes who have committed some form of horrific deed (Bar-torr and Superboy especially)

>>77432291
The Titans are not irredeemable but Lobdell and the people who employ him certainly are.

>>77432520
At least Bart and Superboy are. Jesus christ those characters are fucked

>>77431250
>exactly. There are cursed characters, destined to have only bad writers who can't make them interesting.
FTFY
Case in point >>77431005

>>77432720
To add onto your point, the Titans have been cursed for years now, especially Raven. Has she ever been in something good that wasn't directly tied to the Titans? Is she the only member of the NTT besides Beast Boy to not go on to bigger and better things?

>>77432628
If the next writer has any sense he will ignore all the crap Lobdell wrote and reboot the whole Teen Titans franchise.

>>77432837
Raven's problem is that writers are afraid or unable to try new things with her.It's always Trigon.You could use her on JLD or have her mentor a magical hero(Kid Devil if he were being used).

>>77433040
>Put her on JLD
People who say this haven't actually read JLD. It was a mess that nearly tuin3d magic
>make her mentor a kid hero
I rather if she had a mentor.

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>>77431838
I wouldn't blame Op for not knowing that Wolfman decided to create a character who looked like Terra and had the same powers as Terra bit was somewhere not Terra.

>>77431477
So underage smoking is irredeemable but Having sex with an underage girl is totally fine.

>>77431683
Nice try Su.

>>77431217
No, that's bullshit spin Jim Shooter claimed decades after the issue came out.

>>77428283
This is actually how people demand political correctness.jpg

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>>77428319
>>77428316
It's fine if the repeated panels are actually part of the joke.

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>>77431710
You shut your whore mouth. The stupid looking sash is a sexy and time honored tradition.

>>77431005
Hm. In Ultimates she has that jock vibe going on. Feels actually more Marine than chairforce.
Binary's her spaceship, just to show off to Blue Marvel.
Then proceeds to be a cheeky cunt to Galactus.

>>77431217
If you actually read the issue, it's clear that that explanation doesn't make sense with the script. Shooter was just backtracking later, while at the time of writing it, he was definitely going all-out making Hank a loose cannon.

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>>77427672

>>77434572
That's hilarious. What's this from?

>>77435136
Robinson can try but it'll just be ignored once Bendis writes her in another event.

>>77435136
In Age of Ultron, Whedon managed to make her not a COMPLETE tool, and be a vital part of the team in the end, so maybe there's hope now.

>>77435136
Thanks, Bendis.

>>77435146
Invincible.

>>77433244
Different time and this would've been the same time Kitty was in a relationship with Colossus when she was 14 and he was 19. The entire point of Terra was to act as something of a parody/dark mirror of Kitty after all so if a middle school age girl in a relationship is fine, then a girl around the same age fucking an older guy is beyond the pale.

>>77433210
She's one of the characters I think would work with a non-origin: she may be the original Terra brought to life, she may be a clone, but at the end of the day she has the ability to forge her own path and isn't tied down by the past.

The Palmiotti/Gray origin was stupid.

Kind of an underused character too. Terra II is a qt.

>>77431792
>marking a character by swerving away from the direction people would normally expect them to take
That was exactly their intention, yeah. They wanted to play with the readers' expectations. Likeable villains often turn into heroes a bit too often. So they wanted to play with that.

On the positive side, they had it planned from the get go. She was created just to die. They had to have that clear idea in their head, that they themselves wouldn't fall in love with the character.

And to me they did it pretty well. Terra was a brat, but she was a cute brat. She wasn't Jason Todd.

>>77435291
Colossus is also a hero, while Deathstroke is a villain.

>>77435361
What kinda grosses me out is that they tried to make Deathsttoke an anti-hero after this but kept acting like Terra was somehow 10x more evil than him.

>>77435343
Maybe they should've kept her alove and redeemed her because that would've been more interesting.

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>>77427672
>Picture related is slowly shaping up to become that.

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>>77431710
I would a FtMERRICA.

>>77435519
Perhaps. But that story arc is overdone.

That we wish things would have turned out differently means that they did a good job making her likeable enough.

>>77435227
Is invincible any good? I heard it was good.

>>77436376
For a while.
Imagine Superman being a saiyan instead of a kryptonian

>>77436618
I might give it a go. Any suggestions on where I should start reading?

Sage for being slightly off topic.

>>77436958
The beginning.

>>77428491
Meanwhile Janet basically gets away with taking advantage of his poor mental state and manipulated him into marriage

Fuck yeah double standards

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>>77428283
Not gonna lie, I'd pull that shit.
>>77428491
>>77437028
Janet also became the leader of the Avengers for a pretty long time. She did really good for herself compared to Hank.

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>>77434572
>even has a bendis lookalike

10/10

>>77437188
Hank was a leader too and stood up for himself to both Stark and Reed at the time, while they were suffering from a bad case of Civil War characterization. This run was one of the few good Slott things.

>>77437188
Janet's rich and doesn't have mental problems so it's easier for her to come back to normal. Meanwhile Pym's bipolar (unless someone out of blue decides it's schizophrenia) and, allegedly, poor enough to seek professional work abroad (is this why people constantly steal his suits? Because he has no cash for decent security system?)

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>>77428582
How the fuck did they even GET that info anyway? Did Janet just tell the entire world about the slap and nothing else?

>>77437684
So it seems

Most later runs more or less implied it took Pym ages to talk openly about his own problems

>>77435291
I don't think that's really a fair comparison, since Colossus is still a teen while Deathstroke is clearly past that.

>>77435530
All of the New Avengers are some of the worst characters in Marvel, which is saying a lot considering how low the bar is.

>>77437854
I liked Cassie in Mighty Avengers

>>77435442
He was only doing it for his family

>>77437684
It was treated as a big thing when it happened. The divorce was very public and messy, considering Jan had just launched her clothing company at the time and (I think, I need to go back and read it again) became chairman of the Avengers. Pym was being put through the ringer, having pulled Salvation I and officially taken off of the team while Egghead framed him for murder. Also she started dating Tony while the divorce was going on who took his inside knowledge of being Iron Man and used it to his advantage to date Wasp, kowing full well she openly stated that she doesn't want to date another Avenger so that there isn't any unnecessary tension between her, Hank, or the rest of the team. There's no way it wouldn't have gotten out once the paparazzi got wind of the divorce.

>>77437793
He was 19. That's a legal adult and well into college. And again, that's the point too: Terra/Slade takes the already creepiness of it and ratches it up to its logical conclusion with her fucking a guy who's probably like 4 or 5 times her age.

Why does everybody think that THEIR opinion is right and everyone else is wrong. There are crazy characters like Harley Quinn and Deadpool who are very popular running around. between the two of them there death count would stack miles high and yet some say Terra is irredeemable? Don't think so. Bring Terra back. The one and only true Terra. Why they created Atlee and still publish her I have no idea whatsoever except that her creators have huge egos.

A good writer can easily redeem Terra. Just say that she's possessed by a centuries old horny witch when she lived in the Castle in Markova.

>>77439394
I would not bring Terra back right now because the Teen Titans franchise is an abomination right now and any character introduced will get screwed over.Its a shame because New 52 Terra was pretty cool.

>>77428335
fuck, beat me to it
>>77431555
it's been over for a while, the ending is only slightly clever though, and yes it does drag on for no reason

Incorruptible is such a much better read

>>77439179
You're comparing a 5 year difference with like a 45 year difference like they're the same thing.

>>77436376
it's capeshit, but because it's had the same creative team for more than 115 issues it's passable. If you like the inherent quality brought by having the same core creative team for a very long time (USM comes to mind as an example) then you'll like invincible

>>77438533
A family that he endangered and abandoned.

>>77428491
Reed Richards slapped the shit out of Sue a few times and he gets away scott free. Yet another thing he can do better than Pym.

>>77440865
Reed's slaps are somehow taken out of context more than Hank's.

>>77433410
The start of this book is great

Then the middle happens and everyone starts acting like a fucking retard

Then the ending happens and reminds me why Millar shouldn't be allowed to write his own endings.

>>77440976
>Millar
Nope.

>>77441044
My bad, but the ending for it, and Incorruptible, were so shitty it could have been Millar

That fucker really cant end a story

>>77441075
It's not just the endings with Millar, if you ask me.

>>77427881
well that does kind of fit what a true evil asshole would do, so in that sense he's a badass,. though a piece of shit, it's in character

>>77440958
They're not taken out of context that much.
Now that panel where he slaps Franklin, THAT'S always taken out of context. It was one time, in a What If story.

>>77441144
>badass

Nah, he's just a scumbag. Any given Rogue has more badass moments than Deathstroke and they're fucking small time crooks that only Johns pretends are a big deal.

>>77441144
>quad dubs

>>77441158
The two I'm aware of always involve a villain doing some form of mindfucking.
As opposed to Hank's infamous example which largely came down to jealousy, stress and shame at the fact he can't consider himself a breadwinner.