Meat Eaters Who Agree With Vegans

>>9224237
No...go die faggot

>>9224237
>I know eating a plant based diet is healthier
maybe if we weren't fucking omnivores

>>9224240
Honestly I really should. What makes me so entitled to torturing animals for trivial conveniences? What makes me so entitled to destroy the environment for future generations? I'm causing so much harm and I do nothing to make up for it.

>>9224243
The scientific consensus is that it is in fact healthier than an omnivorous diet.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

We should be getting at least most of our calories from plant foods. Remember for the majority of our evolution we were herbivores. Animal products cause disease and there's no arguing that.

>>9224237
Oh I probably agree for the most part, thing is I don't fucking care in the slightest.

>>9224237
More like I understand the concept but don't really care.

>>9224237
No...go die faggot

>>9224320
This

This is a false flag. It isn't even a good false flag.

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vegetarian here

>>9224237
I mean you could go vegetarian. Its really not hard. Going vegan doesn't give you super powers though fyi. If you really enjoy meat then you should keep eating it and not guilt trip yourself.

>>9224240
>>9224243
>>9224344
How about you take the autism down a couple notches?


>>9224263
Existing as a human being means that in someway your actively destroying something else
through indirect means. Don't guilt yourself so hard man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y89uNh2nLg

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>>9224385

>>9224395
Was expecting this to suck but it's actually really good.

>>9224237
>I know eating a plant based diet is healthier
You don't know shit.

>>9224274
And you didn't even read the shit that you posted.

>>9224237

You shouldn't necessarily feel pathetic about it. Rather, people who go through all these mental gymnastics to justify their meat eating are the ones who should feel pathetic. It's objective fact at this point that, as you said, a plant based diet is healthiest, animals are treated like shit 99% of the time, etc.

Admitting this and saying, "Yeah, I know it's not the best choice, but I choose to eat meat anyway" is better than being a paleo faggot in denial, like this kid >>9224243. It's like being a smoker who comes out with all this bullshit reasoning and justification in an attempt to convince you that no, smoking really isn't bad for you. Just own up to your shitty habit and people will respect you a lot more.

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>>9224410

>>9224421
Please show conclusive evidence that supports your claim.
Shill doctors writing a book does not count.

>>9224434
Not them but: https://pastebin.com/RYmSEQUW

>>9224421
Dude its less about the fact people eat meat and more the fact that people eat threes squares of it a day. Unless your bodybuilding, that will fuck your body up

>>9224440
>pastebin.com
>first link is to a fucking youtube video
Into the trash

>>9224434
I know from long experience that no one or two studies will ever be enough for you people. You always find some excuse to ignore them. However, if you're actually interested, you're welcome to poke around on this site:

>http://nutritionfacts.org/

The guy who runs it is a doctor who basically reviews clinical trials for you. Every video or article on the site contains links to the studies it references. I have spent many hours reading through hundreds of research papers on the subject of human nutrition before arriving at the conclusion that a plant-based diet is the optimal diet for long-term health and prevention of disease. If you haven't done similar research then no matter what you choose to eat, your perception of it as healthy or not is largely a product of marketing and blind faith.

>>9224237
Nah, I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to eat kale. Animals are delicious. #keto4lyfe

>>9224237
I don't know if I feel pathetic about it, but I do agree that it's better and that I'm just too lazy/weak to do it.

The only arguments really against it is 'but dude lol BACON' and 'but how are you gonna get your protein', which one can do easily while being vegan. There's always the post where they show some crazy people killing their baby because they tried to give them a vegan diet, and obviously babies are the exception, that doesn't mean a full grown adult is going to die.

>>9224237
>DUDE MEAT LMAO
these are just edgelords

I'll never stop eating meat but I get why vegetarians are vegetarians. vegans may be a little crazy sometimes but not worth sperging over.

>>9224461
Show evidence that vegan diet is better than diet with lots of vegetables and small amount of meat.

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>>9224466
Babies aren't the exception though. The ADA approves vegan diets for all stages of life - conception and on. The vegans who kill their babies were retarded fringe dieters who thought it was okay to only feed their babies apple juice. There are countless healthy vegan babies. Smartest 3 year old I ever met was vegan. He had at least 30 books totally memorized and was very mentally engaged in everything. Little genius.

>>9224237
>Any other meat eaters here too weak to go vegan but agree with all the principles of the lifestyle?
yeah, me
everything about it makes sense to me
I have no mental block, though, I just don't care enough about it to change my diet.

the minute lab-grown meat becomes a thing I'm on board, but until then meh

>>9224237
I think OP may just be a vegan.

I don't say an inherent moral issue with eating meat or breeding animals for meat. Animal cruelty is another matter, but the market isn't going to change enough to deal with the problem, tighter legislation is needed.

>>9224237
>I know eating a plant based diet is healthier
>need to supplement with b12
What did he mean by this?

>>9224237
I try to cut down on meat and get more ethical meat. I doubt I'll ever go full vegan

>>9224611
Why the fuck would I eat what elephants eat? I'm a human, I eat what humans eat.

>>9224640
you're really supposed to just eat what that black mean eats. he is smarter than you.

>>9224237
Agree 100%
Veganism is healthier, and morally superior.
Nobody's perfect tho ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>9224237
What's with all the blatant vegan shilling on this board?

I always assumed vegans were just harmless people with an odd personal code of ethics but I can't believe anyone would use these kinds of obviously disingenuous tactics to sell something just cause they thought it was a good product.

It is one of the supplement companies? One of those Jew things /pol/ is always talking about? Somebody that produces B12?

>>9224237
I went vegan like 3months ago after reading alot of independent trials on how vegan diet affects us.

Vegan benefits from these trials:
>no cholesterol(fat in veins)
>16% higher testosteron
>less estrogenes(meat n dairy contains ton of it while soy cant even be absorbed)
>no animal steriods
>no antibiotics
>less overall lack of minerals and vitamins(yeah u need b12 but your more sufficient in most others than meat/dairy eaters)
>harder erections and your gf will turn into a semen god because your semen will taste aloot better.
>80% less chance for stroke and cancer or any related desises.
>prevents acne and makes your skin fking awesome
>cheaper if you dont buy those half fabricates(that are still alot healthier than meat)

Thats pretty much what i found, its why i changed. Im not trying convert anyone but for me it made sense to switch which was fking no biggie

Yes, the modern American is hooked on a diet which is laughably bad, and they actually go nuts at people who go the other way.

I'm not a vegan myself, but I understand the health benefits of vegetarianism at least.

Every serving of vegetables per day increases a person's health. Harvard recommends getting ten servings a day. Ten servings!

Almost every American meal is basically confectionary at this point. Breakfast is sugar coated cereal with full fat milk and some sort of sugary topping. Drinks are coffee with sugar and more milk, or soft drink. Sugary snacks. Lunch is white bread and processed meat (proven to cause cancer). Dinner is at best starchy vegetables and red meat (proven to cause cancer). At worst, it's just more fast food.

Harvard also says we could basically replace all dairy with vegetable intake and get more nutrients for a fraction of the calories.

Literally anything produced by a cow is either (a) cancer-causing, or (b) unnecessarily fattening and always (c) environmentally destructive.

The only real issue with a totally vegan diet is that you'll miss out on the good stuff in poultry, eggs, and especially seafood. A bit of planning can easily replace those things.

Fucking paleo retards actually think our ancestors were eating red meat all day. What are you smoking? How many buffalo can one tribe take down before they just start eating all the roots and shit around their ankles? 80%+ of a healthy diet should be vegetarian. That's a fact.

>>9224385
>existing as a human
You mean existing
Everything that lives takes energy from something else

>>9225250
That's mentally lazy. Most animals live within their ecological means. Humans are the only animal who have consistently broken free of our Malthusian restraints despite our rational capacity to live within them.

>>9224237
I eat meat and agree with vegans (some of them) but disagree on how to fix the problem. A lot of them think by being obnoxious they'll somehow convert everyone to veganism and save all the animals, but I disagree. I think it's more realistic and will end up helping animals more to support lab-grown meat and get people to eat that instead.

There are downsides to vegan diets, they usually have less muscle mass, plant protein isn't absorbed by the body as well, if you're physically active or female it's easy to get low on iron, etc.

I don't think that a vegan diet is healthier. It might be healthier than the average person's diet but that doesn't make it better than someone who eats meat but also eats lots of unprocessed plant foods. Some people have literally evolved to be able to consume lactose, that seems to be a clear indicator that people aren't meant to be entirely vegan 100% of the time.

>>9224679
it's the go-to /ck/ shitposting, along with jack posting and mcchicken

>>9225244
>How many buffalo can one tribe take down
There were some instances of buffalo being so plentiful that Native Americans would kill them just for their hides and tongues, they wouldn't even bother taking the meat.

>>9225266

>didn't eat the meat

Interesting. Kinda aids my point though hey.

>>9224679
>I always assumed vegans were just harmless people with an odd personal code of ethics
I guess most of them probably are but if you go to where shilling is less likely you'll still see a lot of bitter vegans who just sit around talking trash about non-vegans all day. I've seen some vegans literally cheering upon finding out that the lone star tick spreads a disease which has a symptom of making people allergic to red meat. They were happy about fellow humans being diseased. That's sick, they put animals above humans.

I would love to eat mostly plants, but yeah meat is waaaay too fucking delicious. I probably couldn't give up cheese either.

If I could eat meat as a treat and not every day, I'd rather do that, but it's so tasty that I can't resist. Horrible will power.

>>9224274
Ncbi
Jews bought out all regulators and have everyone working under fishy language, modern day bait by lawyers landing all lay folks in a wide open bite

>>9225273
I think they found recently that cheese is as addictive as smoking or some shit.

>>9224237
I eat meat but agree with some vegan arguments. Generally i think the ethical argument is the weakest, and in particular I think that an end to animal model drug tests would be devastating. Much of what I've read does support their ecological arguments, and there is certainly evidence for health benefits from reducing meat consumption.

>>9225277
Most foods with lots of sugar, salt, or fat will taste good because that's what we evolved to seek out. But I don't think someone is going to start going through withdrawals if they stop eating cheese like they would with nicotine, and any comparisons of the sort seem sensationalized to push an agenda.

>>9224237
>what if I pretend to be a omnivore becoming a vegan
>maybe I can convert some retards
take a hike you loony

>>9225266
>native americans killed buffalo w/o taking the meat

Wrong and you have absolutely no source for that. The NA's depended on that meat to sustain them through the winter and were adept at preserving it. It was the white bastards who wiped out the buffalo for hides only. Stop trying to ameliorate your white guilt by projecting white atrocities and slaughter of wildlife onto NA's. It won't work.

>>9225316
http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/nattrans/ntecoindian/essays/buffalob.htm

>At times, Indians used everything. But on occasions they did not, and the observers remarked upon "putrified carcasses," animals left untouched, or Indians who took only "the best parts of the meat." Sometimes Indians were said to kill "whole herds" only for the fat-filled tongues.

>>9224237
>I know animals are tortured for animal products
>tortured

Yeah, no. No one would waste time torturing animals for animal products. Abuse/neglect is one thing, out right tortue doesn't happen when they care about profits.

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>>9224237
Plenty of rodents, rabbits, hares, deer, and other fauna gets killed when it's harvesting time. Those threshers and plows and other implements of the bloodthirsty plant farmer kills animals by the millions. And endless mono-culture fields aren't great for the enviroment either, as is pesticides eradicating bees.

You don't get to feel self-righteous.

>>9225354
Not a vegan but I imagine vegans would say you have all the animals being killed during crop harvest + animals slaughtered for food so veganism still reduces the number of animal deaths. Your other points are valid though, but I'm expecting that if vertical farming gets more popular monocropping and pesticide use will be less of a concern.

>>9224263
Not only thqt, if you keep living there is a serious risk that you will reproduce and your kids will also eat meat
You should kill yourself right now before you fuck up some more

>>9225366
>I imagine vegans would say you have all the animals being killed during crop harvest + animals slaughtered for food so veganism still reduces the number of animal deaths
Which would make no sense, because you have to increase farm lands to pick up the nutrition slack when all those delicious proteins would vanish. And if every animal has equal value, then vegans have more deaths on their hands than meat eaters. One of the by-products of farming cereal grains is tons of grass/stalks/whatever it is called that we humans can't eat but cows can. We feed that shit to livestock instead of letting it rot in the fields. Or maybe USA has a different way of feeding their livestock, or logistical difficulties, or I dunno. And I don't care enough about a retarded OP to find out seven minutes before bedtime.

>>9225354

Not a vegan, but you're ignorant.

Livestock need food. They eat all throughout their life, in fact. What do they eat? That's right, plants. And since they are large, complex organisms, they are not terribly effiecient at converting the plants they eat into body mass. So it takes significantly more energy to produce meat than is contained in the final product. This means that eating meat actually requires *more* plants to be grown and harvested, not less. Growing and consuming plants directly is simply more efficient, there's no way around it.

>>9224395
Because nobody with muscles has ever been unhealthy, clearly a person who looks fine is fine

It's already difficult for me to eat sufficient calories. I'd probably die if I stopped eating meat and dairy.
Also cheese is too good to give up.

>>9225404
I believe the efficiency comes in where you force the cows to live in jam packed, shoulder-to-shoulder conditions where they're wading through their own shit.

In that way, they produce a relatively large amount of body mass "efficiently". It's more efficient than feeding plants directly to you, because you can't legally be forced to live in those conditions.

>>9225404
You are missing one very important detail: livestock are able to convert energy from plants that we humans are not able to digest. Human beings cannot digest cellulose. Herbivorous animals can. Many crops that we grow for animal feed would be totally useless for human consumption. The same is true for the land the animals or crops were raised on. Some land is far too hard or rocky to be plowed into a field. But that land can be used to graze livestock, and so on.

>>9225404
Like he said in the other post though there are parts of the plant that humans can't eat, but cows and pigs can. We aren't feeding them cereal and corn that people can buy in the grocery store. Cows are pretty efficient at converting plant material into energy though, with their multiple stomachs and fermentation process to make food easier to digest.

>>9225277
>casomorphin in cheese binds to the same receptor sites as heroin! Cheese is literally an addictive drug, and all you carnists are hooked!
>phytoestrogens in soy bind to the same receptors as estrogen? Don't worry about it, just because it works the same way doesn't mean our most important protein source will turn you into a woman

>>9224237
>You can't possibly justify wearing shoes
Shoes are comfortable
>Oh comfortable? They are comfortable? So it's ok for you to put shoes in your feet and walk around wearing them all day?
>Yeah, they are good for me
Good for you? Here are some studies on how wearing some types of shoes can cause posture problems, clearly nobody should ever wear shoes
>Have you ever been inside a shoe factory?
>Do you have any idea about the impact shoes have on the environment? I bet you aren't going to wear just that pair of shoes for the rest of your life
Admit you only wear shoes because they aren't as smart as you, if aliens ever came to earth they would wear you on your feet

>>9225413

Cattle aren't raised like that. They need pasture. And their feed efficiency is utterly abysmal. Pigs and chickens are the ones who are placed into high-intensity facilities, but consuming their meat is still less efficient than consuming plants on a per-calorie basis.

>>9225329
And he goes on to explain why this might have OCCASIONALLY happened. He also offers no sources as to the "eyewitness" reports of a few Europeans. We all know Europeans never made up stories about NA's, right?

>>9224679
Here is the difference between veganism and all the other fad diets
Veganism doesn't work unless everyone is vegan
So whenn vegans spend all their time malnourished for lack of meat and have to put up with fake cheese and a mountain of other bullshit just to be told they are still not doing enough because they have been conditioned to see animals as babies and they see you happy eating a burger because you are not dumb enough to add to the already big burden of life for yourself they are going to get a little mad, they are going to feel like everything they do is worthless (it is) because no matter how much meat they don't eat it only takes a barbecue for someone else to neglect that
Vegans can't eat negative meat, they need to control your diet to do that

>>9224237
There's no way to lead a perfectly moral life. At least something you wear, eat or purchase will negatively effect another being. The aim is to try an minimize your suffering first and then everyone else's. So you can't bring your life to a standstill trying to be perfectly moral. If being vegan is too big of a step just reduce your meat consumption. That'll be better than either denying the immorality (like most do) or acknowledging it and doing nothing. I would rather have 50% of the worlds population reduce their meat consumption by 50% than have 10% be perfectly vegan (which I'm not either.)

>>9225417

They ruminate precisely *because* they eat stuff that's indigestible to humans. Fiber isn't easy to break down, that's the whole point, and digesting it requires specialized physiology. Animals with simple stomachs are more effiicient, generally.

>>9225479
How are you going to get 50% of the world's population to reduce their meat intake by half?

>>9225479
Why is it immoral for an animal to eat another animal?

>>9225454

Yea, no sources at all. He probably just made it all up.

http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/nattrans/ntecoindian/ecolinksbuffalo.htm

>>9225454
I know that it's possible they were just lying but pretty much every culture has done something that we would think badly of today, not just Europeans. Europeans have done some heinous stuff but they weren't the only ones, and to act like everyone except Europeans were noble and pure is wrong if you're looking to genuinely make things better in the future.

>>9225492
Same arguments as veganism just without the absolutism.

>>9225509
It isn't. It is to do it needlessly though. If I can survive and be happy without meat or by greatly reducing my meat consumption then it is indeed immoral to continue killing animals because of some sense of dominion or to assert my masculinity. If you think you can't be happy even by reducing your consumption by even a little then it'd be immoral of me to ask you.

>>9224596
Why is it okay to kill animals if it isn't okay to abuse them?

>>9225686
Do you also considered death penalty as abuse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dPvAWHqTG0

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For all the vegetarians and vegans here, what should I do if I literally gag when I try to eat vegetables? The only vegetables I like are corn and potatoes. How do I learn to eat only vegetables when I literally can't swallow with them in my mouth? Pic related

>>9224508
Things that didn't happen

>>9224237
I agree that from an ethical standpoint, a lot of people on earth could be vegans at this point. In developed countries we have supplements, vitamins and and animal product replacements so there's no good, real reason to keep torturing animals the way we do. I typically go about this from an ethical standpoint, so eating things like roadkill would be fine with me, or animals that don't have brains like oysters; in the future this might include lab grown meats.

I think eating meat and animals products is completely natural though and I enjoy it too much to stop.

>>9224237
I sort of understand what you mean. From an agricultural perspective getting all our nutrition out of plants and insects is much more efficient than producing farm animals. Once the human population gets too large I won't be surprised if animal meat products will become hard to obtain and extremely expensive

>>9224410
damn that's a good comic

Vegetarians are retarded pussies

>>9224679
>shilling

That word doesn't mean what you think it means. No one is trying to sell you a product.

More and more people are going vegan so naturally more people will be talking about it and the clear health benefits they experience after cutting out animal products from their diet.

>>9224274
>at least most

kys

>>9225658
>It isn't. It is to do it needlessly though.
Plenty of carnivores still hunt other animals even if full again why is it immoral for humans i.e an animal to eat another animal? Is it the industrialization of it that you dislike?

>>9227970
There clearly is a disproportionate amount of talk about vegan issues for the actual amount of vegans
It's almost like the same couple people are always starting these threads, I mean vegan threads are the closest thing ck has to a general

>>9227914
Have you ever stop to consider that what seems like a petty reason to you may be important to someone else and you are assigning value to subjective things while complaining that other people assign value to subjective things?

>>9228041
Are you not aware of that new documentary on Netflix? It's getting a lot of attention. I wouldn't be surprised of the number of vegans has doubled in the past month.

>>9227829
That's very strange. Did your parents never serve you vegetables as a kid? My tastebuds changed after going vegan. Vegetables are much more delicious to me. I would suggest oily stir fries until you get used to the idea of eating vegetables

>>9224237
>I know the environment is being destroyed by animal agriculture on a level that can't be compared to anything else we use on a daily basis.
Yeah bruh let's not talk about fucking cars and the whole transportation industry

>>9224237
I have no problem with butchering animals and eating meat, but i do feel that i personally consume too much meat.

Every meal is some sort of steak, meat loaf, chicken breast, ham, sausage or the like.

So for me it's not so much agreeing with a vegan lifestyle but more with having to try to get a more diverse diet.

What is health? If meat is intrinsically excluded from your view of health, it’s time to revise your assumptions. The idea that foods like hamburgers are "unhealthy" reflects a naive, narrow-minded view of what constitutes health.
Most people ostensibly define health as a state: involving lack of illness, possession of a certain body image, ability of the body to do work, etc. But when confronted with someone who meets these criteria and eats meat, they amend their definition to include "plant-based diet." They cannot accept eating meat as something a healthy person could engage in, as they have a priori deemed it an unhealthy act. It becomes clear that "health" is not a state one can occupy, but an ongoing series of sociocultural performances. This exclusionary view of health ensures that "health" proper cannot be achieved by certain types of people (lower class). Therefore, if you are not an insensitive, sheltered bigot, you must accept that meat is healthy.

>>9224237
I agree we need a proportionate dose of vegetables as well as meat and most of today's food market emphasizes on meat more because i tastes better besides that being a vegan is for fags

>>9224237
Nice try vegan

>>9224237
Fuck off with that nonsense, you barefoot, pony-tailed, hemp-t-shirt-wearing, pinko-commie, sycophant.

If everyone in the world was a vegan it wouldn't save the planet. It would doom us to a fate of overexploitation, peak phosphorus, and over dependence on super pesticides that would poison our water at an even faster rate than we are right now.

If everyone on earth was a limp-wristed, tofu eating faggot, we'd have to farm more vegetables and more fruit. That means the land loses nutrients faster. That means more fertilizers. What happens when we run out of fertilizer? No problem, we'll just use some cow shit as fertilizer, oh wait, there aren't any more cows because everyone's a god dam vegan so cows are more worthless than your bachelor's degree in women's studies. Congrats, you've doomed us all to the super dustbowl. Enjoy starving to death with your twenty-eight vegan, mullato great-grandchildren.

More dependence on fruits and vegetables means more dependence on pesticides. Eventually the bugs build a tolerance, so we use stronger pesticides, then they build a tolerance to that, so we use stronger pesticides. Each time these poisons go into the ground and into our water supply and who gets to drink it? You do, you silly vegan faggot. That's assuming we don't run out of fresh water to water the plants, which we are running out of, by the way.

So if you want to save the world, being a vegan won't do shit. If you want to pretend that you're saving the environment, I suggest you keep your silly opinions among your peers in places like University of Berkeley, where all the other Che Guevera fanboys hit people in the head with bicycle locks for having different opinions. They might believe your bullshit there.

>>9228261
So all of this ISN'T happening right now while meat is still being reared? I'm not a vegan myself, but come on, man.

Besides, advances in genetics, chemistry and biotech mean that pesticides are going to continue becoming much less toxic and used very sparingly. I challenge you to find a single peer-reviewed study (and no, alarmism from pundits/bloggers doesn't count) that proves glyphosate is linked to disease at normal (i.e. low) exposure levels.

>>9228280
It certainly is happening right now.

But the OP said "the environment is being destroyed by animal agriculture on a level that can't be compared to anything else we use on a daily basis," and that is either an outright lie or ignorance on an unfathomable level. Veganism would accelerate all these problems I mentioned.

Global overpopulation and overexploitation of limited resources can't be fixed with a diet. Pretending that they can is dishonest, and I'm going to call bullshit on that.

>>9224237
If you are trying to challenge the morality of eating meat despite the fact that it is just normal for society to eat meat then you are fighting a political battle. With that said you are suggesting to remove a personal freedom that in which is not illegal to do, yes may be morally wrong. Up to this point it is only a lifestyle benefit and honestly you are missing out on some great tasting food by going vegan.

>>9225969
I wasn't implying that killing is a form of abuse.

My point is that if he acknowledges that animals shouldn't be abused because they are sentient beings that can feel pain, what is preventing him from valuing the sentience of animals enough to also not kill them for no reason.

>>9228305
>With that said you are suggesting to remove a personal freedom that in which is not illegal to do, yes may be morally wrong.
And you are removing the personal freedom of the animal, who experiences pain essentially the same as you, to not get stabbed to death needlessly.

>>9228567
Animals don't have a concept of personal freedom, animals are not close to humans, animals have no issues with eating you just as you a normal human should have no issues with eating them you retarded western cuck.

>>9228567
Animals don't preserve or value their own personal freedom, so why should I?

I agree pain and suffering ought to be minimized when possible. And getting a captive bolt gun to the head is a heck of a lot better way for an animal to go than a natural death from starvation, disease, or predators.

>>9228011
They're following their instincts and don't know when their next meal is coming from. As for what I dislike, industrialization is a part of it but not the main concern. Mostly, it's the fixation on eating meat for every meal that bothers me. That's what drives industrialization.

If we ate meat occasionally and as a luxury I think we could raise animals humanely. It's the demand for meat that's driving industrialization not vice versa. Another knock-on effect would be more good meat-free options on menus which would allow people to further reduce their meat consumption.

I think the pragmatic approach of reducing meat consumption for a wider audience is better for all vegan goals than the dogmatic approach they currently take.

>>9224611
>eating fruits and vegetables is the only way to go
>implying you can get that big without injecting black beans

>>9228631
>I think the pragmatic approach of reducing meat consumption for a wider audience is better for all vegan goals than the dogmatic approach they currently take.

I agree. So why aren't we discussing replacing our current diet with higher quality but smaller amounts of meat and ignoring the idea of silly dogmatic veganism?

>>9228567
Animal cruelty is a different issue from slaughter and meat production. In order to prove that eating meat is a moral issue, you'd have to prove that animal lives have intrinsic value beyond that which we as humans imbue upon ourselves.

Veganism is a delusion. Vegetarianism is justifiable. Eating responsibly raised/caught/hunted meat and less meat overall is always a good idea.

>>9224237
I'll stick to eating meat since almost if not all the studies against it are groups of fatties or skinny fats nothing for people that exercise shitloads.

>>9224237
I don't agree with them necessarily but view their choices as completely respectable.

One of my best friends is vegan and she's cool about it and doesn't proselytize outside of articles and shit she'll share on facebook. She cooks for me when I go visit her and vegan food done right can be quite good.

>>9228593
>animals are not close to humans
Yes, exactly. Non-human animals do not have moral agency, which is why we aren't shocked or appalled when a lion kills an animal for food. It does not have the ability to empathize with the animal that it is killing, nor, in most cases, does it have any other option but to kill the animal in order to survive. You on the other hand neither lack moral agency to recognize the pain you're subjecting animals to, nor require the flesh of animals to not only survive but to be healthy.

>>9228606
You mean because they kill each other? See above, I guess.

Natural deaths result in a decrease of population of that animal whereas in factory farming the animals are continuously bred to be killed.

>>9228660
>Animal cruelty is a different issue from slaughter and meat production.

Okay, I'll play along with hypothetical where your meat didn't come from an animal that was abused.

>you'd have to prove that animal lives have intrinsic value beyond that which we as humans imbue upon ourselves

I'm not sure I understand. What traits would they need to have to meet this requirement of yours?

>>9224410
Wait a minute, vegetarians can eat eggs?

>>9228851
Sure, it doesn't -directly- kill animals nor is it meat.

>>9228786
>blah blah blah muh baby chicks

Animals aren't people. That's why it's okay to kill them. It is perfectly morally right to kill them.

>>9228786
>nor, in most cases, does it have any other option but to kill the animal in order to survive

You clearly have little knowledge of actual animals. It's very common for animals to kill for sport (housecats, lol), or to reduce competition. Chimpanzees, which are supposedly "vegetarian" will often gang up and kill each other--even resorting to cannabalism. For animals which have large litters of young--like rabbits, rats, mice, squirrels, etc--that the males will kill the offspring of other males to avoid genetic competition, etc.

I agree with any type of diet OP. Human beings are complex creatures and it has been scientifically proven that not one diet fits everyone. I would like to go vegan, but I cannot. As an anemic woman, I already don't get enough iron in my blood and have a low hemoglobin level. I could eat beans, kale, and other stuff that has high levels of iron from plants, but there are certain nutrients that I can only get from eating meat.

I know vegans want to save the world with their lifestyle, and I applaud the committed ones for that. But it is impossible to expect the rest of the world to follow, but it is physically impossible for everyone to have a successful vegan diet. The key is moderation. I already eat very little meat (107 lbs) than I should, but I buy animal products that support more humane treatment, although admittedly, it is not very sustainable for the environment.

>>9224237
No, but I enjoy eating "natural" meats and vegetables.

>>9224320
Same, we get one life, why deny some of the best parts of it

>>9224237
No.

>>9228898
Okay, I'll grant you that animals don't always kill for food and engage in other acts that we may find barbaric. The problem to me, though, is that you're using this to justify humans engaging in similar acts.

Clearly humans are far more intelligent and have a greater ability to empathize than any other animal. Why put us on the same level as less intelligent animals when considering issues of morality?

>>9228888
That's not a reason. By that logic, I could justify slavery by saying "black people aren't white people, thats why its okay to kill them". You have to name the trait that animals lack that makes it okay to slaughter them.

>>9229192
>Clearly humans are far more intelligent and have a greater ability to empathize than any other animal
Browse this board a bit more and your opinion might change.

File: Vegetarians for Life.jpg (8KB, 275x183px) Image search: [Google]

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I have been a vegetarian for the 32 years of my life, and now I have colon cancer.

WHY DIDN'T SOMEBODY WARN ME VEGAN DIETS WERE CANCEROUS?!??!?!

> Long term vegetarian diet changes human DNA raising risk of cancer and heart disease

by Sarah Knapton

Long term vegetarianism can lead to genetic mutations which raise the risk of heart disease and cancer, scientists have found.

Populations who have had a primarily vegetarian diet for generations were found to be far more likely to carry DNA which makes them susceptible to inflammation.

Scientists in the US believe that the mutation occured to make it easier for vegetarians to absorb essential fatty acids from plants.

But it has the knock-on effect of boosting the production of arachidonic acid, which is linked to inflammatory disease and cancer. When coupled with a diet high in vegetable oils - such as sunflower oil - the mutated gene quickly turns fatty acids into dangerous arachidonic acid.

The finding may help explain previous research which found vegetarian populations are nearly 40 per cent more likely to suffer colorectal cancer than meat eaters, a finding that has puzzled doctors because eating red meat is known to raise the risk.

>>9229224
>Long term vegetarianism can lead to genetic mutations which raise the risk of heart disease and cancer, scientists have found.

Researchers from Cornell University in the US compared hundreds of genomes from a primarily vegetarian population in Pune, India to traditional meat-eating people in Kansas and found there was a significant genetic difference.

“Those whose ancestry derives from vegetarians are more likely to carry genetics that more rapidly metabolise plant fatty acids,” said Tom Brenna, Professor of Human Nutrition at Cornell.

“In such individuals, vegetable oils will be converted to the more pro-inflammatory arachidonic acid, increasing the risk for chronic inflammation that is implicated in the development of heart disease, and exacerbates cancer.

>>9229192
>Why put us on the same level as less intelligent animals when considering issues of morality?

I think it depends on what you mean exactly. Should we act to minimize suffering in a reasonable manner? Absolutely. Does that mean we should to go a far extreme and completely eliminate all animal products from our diet? No, not at all.

I think the idea of going vegan is absurd. I am, however, also opposed to factory farming. There exists a perfectly reasonable middle ground where we do consume animal products, but less of them. Moderation.

Continued...

>>9229229
>“In such individuals, vegetable oils will be converted to the more pro-inflammatory arachidonic acid, increasing the risk for chronic inflammation that is implicated in the development of heart disease, and exacerbates cancer.

"2005 data shows that India has one of the highest cancer rates in the world!! This article which quotes research funded by WHO shows India's abnormally high cancer rates despite being a mostly vegetarian society."

>>9229224
>I have been vegetarian for 32 years
>vegan diet
Retard.

>>9229224
>The finding may help explain previous research which found vegetarian populations are nearly 40 per cent more likely to suffer colorectal cancer than meat eaters

Hungh... I don't want ass cancer. Maybe I should go back to eating a balanced diet like all healthy humans.

>>9224274
Consensus means jack shit. The Gatorade science institute has a consensus that Gatorade is better for post athletic recovery than water so is that true now that a bunch of shills agreed on it? No it fucking doesn't it's still god damn sugar water.

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>he hasnt taken the pescetarian pill

>>9229224
>The finding may help explain previous research which found vegetarian populations are nearly 40 per cent more likely to suffer colorectal cancer than meat eaters.


Things that MONSANTO doesn't want you to know.

>>9225214
>"alot"
Stopped reading after that

>>9224237
>Any other meat eaters who feel pathetic for not being vegan yet?

lol

Mr Monsanto Shill, nobody believes the BS you're selling here.

>>9229273
>Things that MONSANTO doesn't want you to know.

But.... but.... Monsanto would NEVER sell anything that's cancerous or could cause cancer right?!?!?!

Right?!?!?!

>>9228123
Animal agriculture does more environmental damage than the transportation industry. Also, meat is a luxury, transportation is almost a necessity at this point given the way we've set things up

>>9229285
Right. It's not in their best interest to kill their customer base.

>>9228261
Best way to save the world is to kill off most Africans and Asians.

>>9228851
There's sub categories of vegetarians due to whether they consider eating animal products like eggs and drinking milk is immoral. Also a category for fish as it has been argued if fish can actually feel pain thus not being a problem for vegetarians.

>>9229351
pescetarianism>vegetarianism>average diet>>>>>>>>>>veganism

>>9228659
That is what I'm doing, a functionally vegetarian/vegan (depending on your love for dairy and eggs) diet with occasional indulgence in meat and seafood which has been sustainably and ethically raised is the best in terms of people actually sticking to it but it doesn't quite have the ring vegetarian and vegan diets have.

>>9229242
>"2005 data shows that India has one of the highest cancer rates in the world!!
It absolutely doesn't. Prostate and colon cancer are almost unheard of in India. Oral and lung cancer are the main killers due to tobacco.

>>9229285
>But.... but.... Monsanto would NEVER sell anything that's cancerous or could cause cancer right?!?!?!

lol

Holy shit, you 'mericans are ignorant.

There is a good reason the rest of the world hates monsanto.

>>9229568
Because they're alarmist weirdos who read Mother Earth News?

>>9229224
>vegetarian populations are nearly 40 per cent more likely to suffer colorectal cancer than meat eaters

Why should I believe some "scientific studies" when my yoga nutritionist tells me that vegetarians are 100% disease free?

>>9229574

Holy shit, there really is a Monsanto shill here...

Way to give yourself away.

l

>>9229313
>Right. It's not in their best interest to kill their customer base.

Oh, Monsanto shill... how easily you give yourself away.

> "California lists Roundup ingredient as a chemical linked to cancer; Monsanto vows to fight"

Fun Fact: 74% of ALL american agriculture is exposed directly to Round-Up or are indirectly exposed to the chemical.

>>9229594
>>9229602
>le shill!!!!

Roundup is a pesticide. You're supposed to wash your produce to get rid of whatever pesticide is on it, Roundup or whatever organic poisons they use, you stupid fuck.

>>9229607

You're not fooling anybody, Monsanto shill.

RoundUp has very low water solubility. The FDA already showed washing removes only a fraction of the Glyphosate.

> *The more you know ** ***** *********

>>9224274
>4 of those diets include animal products
>2 allow meat.

Wow anon you sure showed us.

>>9229629
Glyphosate has only been shown to be dangerous in absurdly high levels which you can't ingest from food.
>but you're le shill!!! all scientists are paid for!!!
>>>/pol/
You'll fit right in there.

>>9229646

> Rabid vegan triggered by his own cancerous eating habits, tries to link anti-cancer people with /pol/

lol

It's probably a tumor on your brain, making you so agitated.

>>9224461
>Dr geger.
>let me ignore studies that show benefits of meat consumption
>let me leave out important information contained within studies.

>>9229646
>Glyphosate has only been shown to be dangerous in absurdly high levels which you can't ingest from food.
A lifetime of eating glyphosate will have no adverse effects? Has there been a long term study showing this on humans? If not how can we be sure that something known to be dangerous in high doses can't be dangerous in low doses over a long period of time. And if we can't be sure why would you lobby for it? Is caution in this case really unwarranted.

>>9229656
>> Rabid vegan triggered by his own cancerous eating habits, attempts to link anti-cancer people with /pol/

I really don't get why vegans are so closed minded and militant about their beliefs.

>>9229656
>>9229666
huh? Not that guy but if pesticides cause cancer surely vegans will still be better off than meat-eaters due to bio-accumulation. Monsanto has the animal feed market as well cornered as the human consumption market.

>>9229679
>Monsanto has the animal feed market as well cornered as the human consumption market.

This is where you're wrong.

Agriculture grade feed does not need to be processed and sterilized in the same manner as food for human consumption.

Ag feed only uses a fraction of the chemicals you find in the supermarkets.

Human grade food pesticides & treatments are several times more profitable for Monsanto than Ag feed.

In fact, in many countries, Ag feed is not *additionally* chemically treated at all.

>>9229692
>Agriculture grade feed does not need to be processed and sterilized in the same manner as food for human consumption.
I thought we were talking about pesticides. Not processing and sterilization (is food really sterilized? I've never heard this before)
>Ag feed only uses a fraction of the chemicals you find in the supermarkets.
But due to bioaccumulation the resultant meat, definitely the fat, will have higher percentage of added toxins.
>Human grade food pesticides & treatments are several times more profitable for Monsanto than Ag feed.
What's more important is the farmers growing animal feed not monsanto. They would still want a high yield. And animal feed treatments would be even less researched than human food treatments.

>>9229742
>(is food really sterilized? I've never heard this before)
Before any of you autists jumps at me I mean that I don't think food is chemically sterilized. I think heat treatment is common.

>>9229229
Lol you're a dishonest moron, I'm not a vegan but let's look at the actual study you dumb cuck.

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/03/09/molbev.msw049

If you actually read it you'll learn a couple of things.

1. Humans apparently have genetic factors that cause a predisposition to various diets, most people being predisposed to an diet high in plant foods and low in animal products( honestly the ideal diet for most people is 80-90% plant and 10-20% animal, preferably chicken or fish) and some people are predisposed to veganism.
2. People, especially vegans, should be careful without much vegetable oils they consume.

Stop quoting the telegraph. There are other arguments against pure veganism that don't rely on dishonesty.

>>9229784
With how much*

I hate being a phone poster.

>>9229662
Because it doesn't accumulate like mercury or radiation

>>9229784
Hmm, that's really interesting. India is probably the only country that prefers animal fat (ghee) as a cooking medium for health reasons.

>>9229873
>The limited data currently available on glyphosate pharmacokinetics in vertebrates are insufficient to predict transport and fate of glyphosate in different mammalian tissues, organs and fluids in the body, and to determine whether or where bioaccumulation occurs, although animal metabolism studies point strongly to the kidney and the liver.

>>9229762
Depends on what you consider to be chemical and how autistic you wanna go with that definition. Having worked in the food industry. Almost all foods are (not drinks obviously) are cleaned in a water/cleaner mixture (ammonia sulfate, ethylene oxide, etc.) And/or heat treated. Meats and plant foods are almost always chemically sterilized.

>>9229889
What that says is
>We don't know what happens, but if most likely goes through the liver and kidneys
The clause
>although animal metabolism studies point strongly to the kidney and the liver.
is referring to the overall "transport and fate," not bioaccumulation.

>>9229306
>Animal agriculture does more environmental damage than the transportation industry
yeah nah, especially if you actually count moving food around as transportation and not agriculture

>>9229913
I wasn't corroborating or refuting what you said. Just pointing that there's no understanding yet.

>>9229224
>The finding may help explain previous research which found vegetarian populations are nearly 40 per cent more likely to suffer colorectal cancer than meat eaters, a finding that has puzzled doctors because eating red meat is known to raise the risk.

WTF?!?!?!?

My gf convinced me to go vegan cause it's "healthier." I haven't fought her on it cause, Tits & Ass, but I'm really going to stop with that bullshit now.

Beign a picky eater because of moral standards is retarded.
Lets talk about morals, aite? What about the malnourished and starving people around the world, are you gonna tell 'em that they shouldn't eat meat cuz "it's just wrong xD. animuhls r our brothas lol"?

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>>9230183
>Beign a picky eater because of moral standards is retarded.

Hello Mr. Zero Morals.

Unlike you, we here at Monsanto care about morals.

Like the morals of providing healthy, delicious, bug free, disease curing vegetables for all Americans.

Join the movement! Don't get left behind! Switch to a vegetarian diet today!

>>9229224
>The finding may help explain previous research which found vegetarian populations are nearly 40 per cent more likely to suffer colorectal cancer than meat eaters, a finding that has puzzled doctors because eating red meat is known to raise the risk.

lmao what? I have never heard this in my life. The science points to the exact opposite.

>>9230255
>lmao what? I have never heard this in my life.

Yes, I was very surpsried too.

Apparently, here is the reason why...

> Researchers from Cornell University in the US compared hundreds of genomes from a primarily vegetarian population in Pune, India to traditional meat-eating people in Kansas and found there was a significant genetic difference.

> “Those whose ancestry derives from vegetarians are more likely to carry genetics that more rapidly metabolise plant fatty acids,” said Tom Brenna, Professor of Human Nutrition at Cornell.

> “In such individuals, vegetable oils will be converted to the more pro-inflammatory arachidonic acid, increasing the risk for chronic inflammation that is implicated in the development of heart disease, and exacerbates cancer.

>>9230255
>a finding that has puzzled doctors because eating red meat is known to raise the risk.

>>9230255
>lmao what? I have never heard this in my life.

You're not the only scientist that is "puzzled."

>>9230266
So it's just some abstract correlation in certain populations? This isn't conclusive in any way.

>>9224611
>carnivore
Of course you're going to feel like shit when you only eat meat. Dumb brawn poster

>>9230277
>abstract correlation

No, it's a scientific study that was done over 20 years.

In long term Vegetarians, arachidonic acid is highly elevated after eating.

Arachidonic acid directly triggers inflammation, which leads to cancer.

Hope this helps.

>>9230304
I'm going to choose to ignore it then. This is the first I'm hearing about it so it must not be relevant.