Vegan?

life is based on death, anon
you can't change this

>>9091801

>not being an immortal noncorporeal transhuman intelligence

fucking plebs over here

You're doing your part to not fuck the environment up further. No individual can really change anything (unless you invent some groundbreaking shit).

>>9091813
this board is entirely dedicated to death and how to make it taste better

>>9091782
Literally being vegan does not matter. It will matter but not until we get rid of these disgusting oil plants. So much emission and fucking China like half the country's electricity is free and people just set up crypto miners there and earn heaps and destroy the environment in the process. If we removed China the world would be a happier place.

>>9091826
>doing my part
>nobody else does there
>planet turns to shit
Hey guys I'm vegan

>>9091849
It's called morals and integrity.

>>9091849
There is no way to stop it. If everyone were vegan the world would still be destroyed pretty quickly. There would be famine. Shortage of food, vitamins and big corporations would still exploit us

>>9091856
>famine
>food shortage
>when like 60% of plants are used for animal feeding or fuel
You retarded?

>>9091782
Similar situation for me. I started craving red meat a couple weeks ago. Haven't had meat yet but everything I've eaten since then hasn't felt satiating. I'll be full from what I'm eating, but not satisfied. I don't know if denying myself something that my body might need really helps animals if I'm not operating as well as I could be. I'm also kind of tired of self-righteous vegetarians lording over others. I read some vegetarians are happy that a tick is spreading a disease which has a side effect of making people allergic to meat. I think they just hate anyone who eats meat more than they care about animals. They use it as an excuse to look down on someone else and feel better about themselves, not because they care about the animals.

If you're going to eat meat, try to get it from better sources that treat animals better. And make sure you never waste anything, always eat your leftovers. Support the development of lab-grown meat, I think that will help animals more in the future than the current self-righteous vegetarians claim to.

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>>9091782
>I don't feel better. I don't eat better.
I can guarantee that your arterial thickness, blood pressure, cholesterol levels, C-reactive Protein levels (inflammation marker), fiber intake, stomach microbiome, etc are all vastly better than non-vegan diets unless you are still using a lot of veggie oil to cook with and eating lots of processed vegan food like oreos/vegenaise. If you don't already you should be taking a vitamin D & B12 supplement, vegan or not.
https://nutritionfacts.org/2011/09/12/dr-gregers-2011-optimum-nutrition-recommendations/
>It's not cheaper.
You're doing it wrong in that case, maybe buying lots of processed vegan meat/dairy substitutes like MorningStar or Daiya. There is no way that per oz fresh whole produce like onions/carrots/celery/cabbage is as or more expensive than good grade cuts of meat, and that's without considering flash frozen vegetables and dry beans/rice or potatoes/whole grain pasta.
>Animals still suffer.
You are part of the solution in reducing demand. At least when you think about slaughterhouses and their ecological and ethical issues you can sleep knowing blood isn't on your hands
>Might aswell eat a steak now and then.
I'd rather splurge on a tin of saffron instead.

>>9091782
>Might aswell eat a steak now and then.
Well, yeah, but that doesn't change that you're obviously a retard or a troll.

>I don't feel better. I don't eat better. It's not cheaper.
Slit your wrists you liar.

>>9091920
>nutritionfacts.org
I'm honestly surprised dr. Geger still has a license with all the lies and half truths he spouts.

>>9091968
Can you list 3 actual lies? So far everything he said was based on science, though that science is sometimes biased or faulty. He's right about most things.

>>9091920
Some vegetables might be cheaper per ounce but not per calorie.

>>9092005
Pretty sure rice and potatoes beat everything in terms of price. You can get a 10kg sack for a couple of bucks.

>>9092005
Vegetables aren't cheap. Unless you buy them from Alzadr's food market. To make a pasta taste something you need to buy a shit load of things. I miss carbonara

>>9091977
>one egg is equivalent to 25000 cigarettes
It's the yolk that's bad, the people who conducted the study even say so. and even then that's eating 1 egg a day for nearly everyday of your life. Not really the same.
>a vegan diet is good for alzheimers
He cites a study that has two sample sizes, one sample size has 262 people and shows a difference between alzheimers occurrence in vegans and non vegans. But ignored the second sample that contains over 2000 people and showed no difference.
He also bases his claim on another study that tests saffron extract as a means to treat Alzheimer's. Not a vegan diet, but a plant extract. This is a pretty blatant lie.
He also ignores studies that show foods like fish actually lower the rate of amnesia, and that fish is a better source of omega 3 than any of the plant based alternatives (olive oil is an exception but its severely processed).
>75% of cancer can be prevented on a plant based diet.
A plant based diet is not necessarily a vegan one. The Mediterranean diet contains meat, but is still plant based as meat consumption is incredibly low (5-10%) in that diet and shows similar benefits that veganism does.
But anyways the study he sources that claim on only states that a diet low in fat and high in plants possibly reduces cancer by 20-42% not 75.

I'm not against veganism, i just feel some vegans either over exaggerate the benefits, outright lie about meat , ignore contrary evidence (lacto-ovo vegetarians are healthier than vegans and live on average ten years longer than most humans, despite still eating animal products) and lastly they only look at it from a western perspective. Ignoring the fact that Asian causes of heart disease are mainly from smoking, while western occurrences are mainly from diet. The Asian diet contains meat, but they eat much less meat than we do.

>>9091977
>Can you list 3 actual lies? So far everything he said was based on science

Something being a lie and something being """""based""""" on science are not mutually exclusive.

You could claim, based on some faulty observations and biased experiments that gravity is actually the force of the surrounding stars pushing us towards the planet, and you could still count it as a form of "science", because there was experimentation,observation and testing. Sure it could be easily debunked, but even faulty science counts as science.

>>9092088
>>one egg is equivalent to 25000 cigarettes
Wat I'm sure nobody ever said that, you must have misread that one.
>>75% of cancer can be prevented on a plant based diet.
Plant-based is often used as a synonym for "vegan" without the whole ideology. Like how basically every documentary calls it a plant-based diet instead of a vegan one.

Don't care enough about the middle stuff, I'd need to look at that and I'm not a fanboy. I do remember something about him saying that flax seeds are the best source of omega-3s. Just saying you exaggerated with that insult.

>>9092096
Now that's a retarded analogy.

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>>9092088
>>9092096
>>9092114

>>9092114
Flax seed only contains ALA and not EPA or DHA, and your body has to convert ALA to dha and epa. Which is a 5% yield. Pretty fucking sad.

You're right its consuming 1 egg a day for 48 years is the equivalent of smoking 25000 cigarettes or 15 years worth of smoking. He leaves out the fact that the median age was 52.5 with the youngest group being 42.9 years of age. Seems like eggs aren't that unhealthy when you have that information.

>>9092148

>Which is a 5% yield. Pretty fucking sad.

It's not consumed at a very high rate. Blood concentrations of EPA/DHA are fine in Vegans.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20861171

PS. link not found on a vegan site, was from a black bodybuilder discussing Omega 3 sources and the silliness of the early human fish source hypothesis (he assumes it's from consuming brains and vegetable sources).

http://www.naturallyintense.net/blog/diet/nutrition/fish-is-not-necessarily-the-best-source-of-long-chain-omega-3-fatty-acids/

>>9091826
>You're doing your part to not fuck the environment up further.
>No individual can really change anything
So which one is it?

>>9092096
>>9092088
>i dont like the way he phrases certain things so he's obviously lying

Lmao

>>9091782
i hunt for my food when i can.

reminder that if you are against hunting but have no problem buying meat at the supermarket, you are a hypocrite. at least i let my meat roam free before it dies instantaneously

>>9092535

Hunting is a spectrum, trophy hunting is also hunting and there's also pure blood sport.

>>9092608
your faggotry is a spectrum

>>9092608
I have a feeling that anon is not a scumbag trophy hunter, but like me, hunts for meat only.

>>9091782
You're doing exactly as much as can be expected from a single person out of 7 billion.

It's not much, but it's not nothing either.

Don't give up. If you have to eat meat now and then, just try to make sure it's not factory farmed.

Eating a steak now and then is still better than eating a pound of meat every single day.

>>9092010
I can get a pound of cheap cheddar cheese for about the same price as 5 pounds of potatoes, and they both have around the same amount of calories. Rice is cheaper, but high in carbs with little protein. You shouldn't be replacing a protein source with carbs though. You still need protein, especially if you're active, and some studies show that vegans/vegetarians have more fat and less muscle than similar sized meat eaters.

>>9091826
>You're doing your part to not fuck the environment up further

By going vegan?

Unless you do a cost analysis of fuel+energy consumption going into what you eat (and transporting it, and keeping it edible, and preparing it) you most certainly do not know whether your diet is actually 'beneficial' to the environment.

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>>9091782
You didn't dig deep enough...

>Nutritional density, high water content, raw living foods giving you energy, detoxification of your body..... The benifits go on forever.

What you failed to address is the deeper and most sinister abuse of human trust ever witnessed in history.

Those pesticides that the USA sprays on conventionally grown crops are made up with 50% of the ingredients used to make agent orange. ***80%*** of food grown in the USA comes from factory farms that are conventional farmers.

The environmental pollution is going to be on par with China from the conventional pesticide runoff from farming alone.

The side effects from agent orange are real and utterly horrifying. By purchasing the conventionally grown crops you are killing yourself and your fellow humans.

>>9093656
BTW I have been on a strict organic vegan diet for six years. I have lost friends sooner than I would have but they won't survive the fluoride and pesticides anyway so consider your choices.

It really is life or death.

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>>9091782

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>>9091782
Watch these movies then tell me just how fucking sweet that salty meat tastes sliding down your throat.

Agenda 21 is implemented differently depending on country. In the USA the Zionists use fluoride, glyphosate, and prescription drugs.

>>9091782
The more people become vegan the more big corporations and the meat and livestock business loses customers. The only way to do that is be vegan and encourage others to be vegan. That begins small, with your choice to be that way. You may not see the difference in your lifetime, but every person is important.

It's straight capitalism.

>>9091826
If everyone went vegan overnight. Billions of animals would die.

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>>9093704

>>9091905
>If you're going to eat meat, try to get it from better sources that treat animals better. And make sure you never waste anything, always eat your leftovers.

Kinda this is my philosophy. Seek out the higher quality (not just more expensive) sources, places where future food is treated humanely and ecological impacts are kept low. Decrease the amount of meat you eat (well, the higher price will 'help' do that) and enjoy it for it's qualities, not just for being something brown covered in gravy.

>>9093717
If only a few billion die that is much lower than the current number per year
>150,000,000,000 animals killed each year for food

>>9093736
https://animalcharityevaluators.org/advocacy-interventions/prioritizing-causes/wild-animal-suffering/

>The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive; others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear; others are being slowly devoured from within by rasping parasites; thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst and disease.
If I had to choose between being an animal in the wild and living on a farm, I think I would choose a farm. As long as it was a farm that didn't mistreat or abuse animals, of course. Animals slaughtered for food are usually given quicker deaths than those in the wild. This is why groups like PETA who want to get rid of all animals under human control and let them fend for themselves in the wild really aren't doing anything to help animals. Yes, people mistreat animals, but you can't blame everyone for that.

Domesticating wild animals was a kindness to them. Factory farming took that kindness away though. Better to support the development of lab-grown meat than try to convince everyone to be vegan, which will never happen. It'll put animal welfare on a higher priority if it's easy to get everyone their meat with better production from lab-grown methods, returning to smaller farms and wanting animals to be kept happier and healthier for other purposes.

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>>9093727

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>>9093787
You are brainwashed. I used to be brainwashed too. You are shit posting so you have no excuse, you have time to learn.

>>9093809
>disagree with me?
>brainwashed shitposter!!!
Every time you post something like this you're potentially driving people away from doing things to help animals because they don't want to be like you. They associate people who care about animal welfare with extreme and hateful vegans, and you're not helping anyone by doing that.

>>9091862
>thinking that would be enough food for other animals
>not taking in the fact that there would be one less gigantic food source
>thinking there would be enough pills for everyone to get the correct nutrients and probiotics
There's a lot that goes into if. Though this is just theory and I think its pretty accurate. So much food would not be used and it'd only be vegetarian food being eaten.

i used to be vegan. till i developed ibs
turns out im allergic to beans and whole grains :(
so i just eggs and rice now.

>>9093817
FUck you cotton ball bitch. I earned my knowledge spending years of my life reading. You just fucking suck. This isn't grade school. I don't have to be nice to you.

If you eat Oreos and fries everyday you're going to feel like shit. Veganism isn't a diet. You should have gone WFPB.

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>>9093833
>literally autistic screeching

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Veganism is a mosanto false flag.
>everyone stops eating animal produce
>all the farms go bankrupt
>only the rich can afford meat
>everyone is slurping on mosanto corn porridge and drinking carrot juice

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>>9093844
The livestock eat more corn than they could ever get humans to eat. How could you not know that?

>>9093844
More like factory farms are buying up all the farm land because the goal of the 1% is to enslave the remaining humans. The humans who survive the pesticides, wars, chemical bombardment, drugs, stds, car crashes, ect..

>>9093833
I've also spent years of my life reading. I am quite ill and have been stuck inside for about half of my life, and spent a lot of that time reading. The difference is that you just seem to hate people, and you justify your hatred under the guise of helping the animals. Attacking people isn't going to make anyone want to help the animals, they're just going to take your position and views less seriously. Maybe you started out actually wanting to help animals, but somewhere along the way you just wanted to fight people like so many others. It's not healthy and it's not helping animals. Many people have said the same thing, that extreme vegans turn them off from considering other viewpoints because they don't like the way they treat people. You don't have to be nice, but if you think ad hominem attacks and refusal to discuss anything because you believe your position is 100% correct and you know everything there is to know is helping the animals, you're just lying to yourself.

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>>9093849
That keeps prices too low and introduces competition for monsanto.

>>9093855
My apologies. I wasn't aware we were playing spoony knifey

>>9093853
Nobody is perfect, I know I am flawed.

After six years of being 100% organic vegan in the USA I have noticed the hive mind is so fucking magnetizing that I should just be myself. I really don't care to convert you. I would rather sicken you, smack you in the face with the facts, and shit on you. Nothing makes me angrier than the slugish, bipolar, zombies I am surrounded by. You all say the same things over and over and over just like the radio, just like the T.V., Just like a bunch of stupid parrots.

You don't know shit about this topic. Your opinion is average. AVERAGE. It is worthles

>>9093903
I've probably read about this stuff at least as much as you have. You aren't even really contemplating what I'm saying, as I'm agreeing with you on the current issues but differing on how to fix them. You think making everyone go vegan will solve everything, I disagree and think that's an entirely unreasonable goal. But having lab-grown meat available will make people not want to have meat from a slaughtered animal, especially for the next generation who grows up with it available and it not being a new development coming out in their lifetime. To be honest, you're more of a parrot since I see more people saying going vegan will solve everything than talking about lab-grown meat. You can keep thinking you're above everyone, but you're not. Every time you think you're doing good by shitting on people, you're just making someone close their mind off to new ideas.

>>9093903
This is why people hate vegans. I have never met a vegan who isn't just a hateful person looking for a way to vomit his contempt for himself and others in a more socially acceptable way

Animals still suffer, OP, but at least you're not contributing to that. That's enough for me.

>>9093941
Lab grown GMO meat is not the healthy alternative.

>>9093961
Yeah it's quite a shame because they probably started out just wanting to help animals. Maybe they start to get frustrated since it seems like what they're doing isn't working, and that's why a lot of them end up that way. I wish more of them would just support lab-grown meat.

>>9093969
"Lab-grown" and "GMO" are not inherently bad things. Most of what you eat has already been modified by selective breeding. This is just more advanced. You should be wary and cautious of developments like these, but don't treat them as inherently bad.

>>9093961
>I hate vegans. I never ever met a vegan who is as hateful and retarded as me. I am the person looking for a way to vomit his contempt for himself.

Hive mind shill mode delux-a-tron. Probably hasn't ever had enough self control to be 100% vegan for an entire month. Probably still drinks breast milk and swallows salty meat.

You are handbag basic. Like a fucking cookie cutter. People agree with you about this(the majority) because you are all hearing it from TV.

KYS pussy. You obviously haven't got the info.

>>9093986
>"think of all the animals that are being killed!"
>kill yourself pussy
Troll or unreachable at this point. Recommended course of action: state viewpoint and move on, hope subject reconsiders in the future. Wish best of luck.

>>9093976
Soy, Corn, Wheat, and what else? Any other GMO crop being employed here to GROW this meat out of thin air? Oh shit wait you didn't think about that did you?

>>9093975
>being a vegan is kind of like not believing in jeebus, you have to be shrill and loud about it

Nah, I live in the south and when the inevitable biweekly group of smarmy evangelicals come parading up to my door worn bibles in hand, I open it while holding my hounds from hell by the collars, smile and say you've got 30 seconds to get off my property or I release them. Not shrill or hard, but they sure do move on out right smartly.

>>9093995
I have no idea what you're asking or what your point is. I think you're too angry to have a discussion because I can't understand you, your anger is making you belligerent.

>>9093993
How can you argue with a grow your own, be organic as possible, or go fuck yourself mentality.

Are you really that attached to the nipple? Is being entirely self sufficient or at least sustainable such a challenge?

Meat fags are the biggest babies. Cry babies, complainers, picky, selfish, ect... You literally TAKE life to sustain yourself instead of growing your own plants to eat. THAT IS LAZY AND DEGENERATE BEYOND REPAIR.

>>9094000
Pesticide residue and mono crops destroying the environment. The allowable limit for pesticide residue was doubled under Obama and is now entirely unregulated under Trump.

The pesticides are the toxic agent orange chems. The shit that causes long term irreparable damage to your DNA.

The lab grown meat is made from GMOs covered in the shit. We would be better off banning synthetic pesticides, GMOs, and pink slime like shit outright.

In fact if it is not done in a timely manner the USA is going to be the hub of the sickly. Just take for example the BOOMING medical industry in factory farm like cities. Compare that to the China Study and tell me you are some how right.

>>9094045
>Ban sinthetic pesticides
>Everyone switches to organic pesticides
>The enviroment is fucked even more, because guess what, organic pesticides are even worse than sythetic ones.

And if you ban all kinds of pesticides, well, enjoy starvation.

>>9094091
Tell me more about how lavender fermented plant extract, ghost pepper extract, and spraying aphids with ice cold water in the morning hours is worse than genetic damage. Go on.... Tell me how my use of aerated compost teas, local plants, and rock dust is bad. Come on then....

>>9094091
BTW I have been a master organic gardener for the past ten years. You are going to feel like a fucking idiot I assure you.

>>9094002
>are property rights not well enforced in the south

I don't understand what you mean. As the owner of my house and land I can demand anyone leave my house and land and if they refuse they are in violation of the law. I can even demand law enforcement leave if they do not have a court issued search warrant and they must comply or be in violation of the law.

>>9094091
I also live and farm in San Diego, California. San Diego has the most certified organic farms of any county in the country. I have volunteered on a few farms. I purchase my food from the farmers within ten miles of me when I need to. I KNOW what I am talking about, I live the life.

>>9092531
> purposely using misleading language and leaving out important information
>lol you're just butthurt

I know the lack of b12 is rotting your brain, but just apply yourself for a minute.

>>9092005
It's stunning how few people understand this.

Yes, onions are cheaper per pound than beef. They're also literally 97% water by mass. Fucking idiots.

>>9091782
No point to being vegan. Farm animals don't have a sense of identity they lose on death, nothing built over time like humans. So, killing them in a humane way costs them nothing. However, they can still suffer, so you should eat free range meat.

>>9094091
>organic pesticides

You're aware that small and medium sized organic growers do not use pyrethrins and rotenone. Those were rammed into the USDA organic certification by big agri so they could play the organic game with the same scorched earth monoculture techniques they use conventionally. Small and medium sized growers would be happy to see those forbidden.

>>9093717
At least they wouldn't suffer the conditions of a factory farm. Your argument only makes sense if people eat free range. I'd rather die than be a factory farm animal.

>>9094117
Now try to scale that practice to a 100.000 acre field.

Yeah, not such a good plan is it?

>>9094198
I guess it's just a matter of saying "go away" sounds less forceful and more informal than saying "get off my property" which sounds like you really are serious and willing to back it up. Maybe just one of those linguistic nuances?

>>9094162
And how much do "small and medium size growers" actually grow?
Gotta feed an entire country. Small and medium just wont do the trick.

>>9094222
Nobody should have a 100,000 acre field in the first place. 40 acres and 1.5 million USD is the maximum a responsible human should own.

Why are you still supporting the idea that mass consumerism is acceptable? Mono crops destroy diversity and lend to pest infestations anyway.

>>9094276
Hahahahahahahahahaha
Mass consumerism is the reason you have a computer to shitpost with.

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>>9091782
Morality don't work like that buddy boy. The only thing you need to worry about saving the world from is yourself.

>>9093809
>Apple filename

You're still brainwashed.

>>9091782
Since you're posting on 4chan, you likely have autism. Study Temple Grandin's ideas to make slaughtering as humane as possible and expand upon it...if you can.

>>9095006
Yes that is correct. Great contribution. Would you agree the children in school should be taught to garden and become independent instead of fucking genociding them because that's my fucking point fuck wald.

>>9095116
I'm on a PC. You can't even run Trisquel on a Mac from what I can tell.

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good thread, going to eat some burgers today

veganism is too radical of a practice to ever save the environment, it requires all this technology and globalism to really be a viable practice that isn't basically just starving yourself to death, vegetarianism or just simply limiting your intake of meat is far more grounded in reality

>>9095588
Some vegans will say what you're saying, that anything people try to do should be welcomed even if it's just limiting how much meat they eat. They don't get as much attention as the more hardcore and hateful ones though. And there are some vegans who say they would eat meat when lab-grown meat is available in stores, but some will say they no longer see meat as food and it's gross and other reasons for not wanting it.

>>9091782
The only difference you can make is very small yes.

But that's true of every person and every endeavour in this small rock.

>>9091856
this sounds stupid and is sourceless

>>9093656
>>9093675
That's not a vegan issue though, that concerns all food vegan and non-vegan. Raw food is great, I eat plenty of raw vegan food, I also eat plenty of raw meat and raw animal products.

>>9093710
What you dont get is that veganism is part of agenda 21, eat grass fed raw unsalted beef.

>>9095649
The majority of grain grown in the USA is GMO and conventionally farmed. The key player in the NWO food industry is Monsanto. They make a killing off of the grain that is consumed in massive quantities by the animals.

The pesticides and other toxins then accumulate in the animals and eventually make it on to a meat eaters plate.

It's a vegan issue and It's a world issue now that the USA is exporting GMOs to Europe.

>>9095654
Explain yourself.

If you are worried about firearms rights being infringed because, ''everyone went vegan and now there is no hunting allowed'' then sure....

Otherwise IDK what you are talking about and until you give a clear and legitimate answer everybody should consider you a shill.

>>9091782
Anyone got some good tofu recipes?
Veganism is for fags but tofu is tasty as fuck
Lentil recipes as well if you have them

>>9093620
nah unfortunately all studies on fitness show vegetarians/vegans have substantially lower bf% and more muscle mass

>>9095881
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5133111/

>Lean Body Mass

>LBM was significantly lower for the vegetarian athletes compared to their omnivore counterparts, a difference which was most prominent among the female participants with female vegetarian athletes possessing 7% less LBM as compared to the female omnivore athletes. In spite of this, there were no significant differences in body fat percentage or BMI between groups.

>>9093727
udderly disgusting

>>9095761
Lol every grain you eat that's not spelt or wild grass is a gmo.

>>9095896
>Results from this study indicate that vegetarian endurance athletes’ cardiorespiratory fitness was greater than that for their omnivorous counterparts, but that peak torque did not differ between diet groups. These data suggest that vegetarian diets do not compromise performance outcomes and may facilitate aerobic capacity in athletes.

So they have better muscles and a healthier body? Interesting.

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>>9095908
That's not what it says. It's about endurance athletes, and endurance athletes benefit from having less muscle and being smaller. Look at marathon runners, the top ones are always really thin. Less muscle = less mass to move = can move for longer. But it still shows that vegetarians have less muscle. Is that a good thing outside of being an endurance athlete?

>>9095915
I mean yeah it is better for their purposes. Nothing more and nothing, vegetarianism is better for endurance athletes. Nothing about vegans either. When comparing the people there's a more "objective" benefit but then again the average person if overweight and unhealthy.

>>9095915
>Is that a good thing outside of being an endurance athlete?
Yes
Heroin chic > being an ugly meathead

>>9095923
Yeah my point was just that vegetarians seem to have less muscle mass and outside of an endurance athlete, it's probably not a good thing. So if you're going to be a vegetarian or vegan at least don't think you can eat rice and cabbage instead of meat and be fine. Endurance athletes might be healthier than the average person but the amount of physical activity they do also comes with its own problems.

>Interestingly, an advantage for health was seen at the first quintile of running time per week (<51min) compared with non-runners, with further small increases in the second to fourth quintiles. The fifth quintile (≥176min⋅week−1) showed a relative increase in risk, suggesting that overtraining might, in the long run, exert deleterious effects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4933620/

>>9091905
>not needing animals at all and thus them never ever getting to live will help them

?

>>9095941
>Yeah my point was just that vegetarians seem to have less muscle mass and outside of an endurance athlete
But that science IS about athletes. As the study says there hasn't really been a lean body mass comparison between vegetarians/vegans/normal-eaters before so we do not know. You'd have to do that with normal people and maybe weight lifters for a more accurate picture. I'd guess there is a small difference but if someone is 50 lbs heavier some of it has to be muscle to compensate for the higher mass.

>>9095949
Are you talking about the lab-grown meat? If so, people won't get rid of all livestock animals because it's available. They'll still keep them for stocks of cells in case they're needed, or anything else they can provide. Kept for petting zoos, as pets, nature conservation, etc. But they won't be crammed into factory farms, in conditions that promote the rapid spread of disease, they'll probably live until they die of old age/disease instead of being slaughtered, they'll just have better lives. They won't disappear.

>>9095954
It's a specific kind of athlete that most people shouldn't try to emulate. Their sport seems damaging long-term and it's not done for longevity and health, and benefits from them being underweight which is also unhealthy. Not as bad as being obese, but still worse than being at a normal weight. I don't think there would be a big difference in testing non-athletes since they would still be using their muscles in similar ways to each other, I would expect the vegetarians to still have less muscle mass due to their diet but I could be wrong. Since a "normal" person is overweight and sedentary it might not matter what the diet is in that case, but it's probably more important to know what the best diet would be for someone who is more active and healthy.

>>9095968
True, data from bodybuilders would be rather useless too since they're on the opposite side of the extremes. If what we assume is correct for normal active people a little difference in lean body mass doesn't really matter, just that they won't be able to perform as good (but since it's not competitive who cares). I don't know what the optimal diet is, probably not vegetarian/vegan but certainly not the standard diet either. I cut basically all dairy out of my diet but I still eat lean meat/fish on occasion and I'm doing very good on the health side.

OP here. Can just confirm that this is a troll thread. I would never eat meat.

If you really care to improve the environment, all you can really do is kill yourself because humankind is an invasive species and we're wasteful by design.

>>9091846
t.drumpf

>>9096028
You sound fat and edgy.

*does a stupid fad diet which makes me feel morally superior instead of just eating things in moderation*
Do American's really do this?

>>9096159
>Do American's really do this?

Yes, I've noticed a lot of Americans incorrectly use apostrophes. For some reason they stick them on the end of words ending with an "s" even when those words aren't contractions or possessive.

>>9091782
Being vegan is such a pointless waste of time, humans are meant to eat meat, so why deny yourself the pleasure? Just eat good quality food from responsible sources, it will benefit both yourself and the environment. For example, eating organic means no chemical run-off into our water supply, free range ensures the animals have at least basic standards of welfare, buy local from a butcher who can tell you where the meat came from and even what it was fed and most importantly make sure it was not kosher or halal slaughtered. This wouldn't have been a problem in Europe even 10 years ago, but now you have to make sure.

For example, my butcher is also the farmer, part of a cooperative, it's his beautiful daughter that does the stunning then he and his employees do the slaughtering. All his beef graze in the fields during summer and kept in barns on winter nights and fed silage. The cooperative does mixed crop rotation, so it's not all plain grass for the cows either. My chicken products are all free range as well, at least whenever there is no bird flu, and all my veggies are organic, especially the ones I grow myself in my small garden.

>>9096149
Can't hide from the truth that almost all the problems we currently have in society is corellated to an inflated population. Up until last century, the entire planet never exceeded a global population of a billion. We had 2 billion by 1940, over 6 in the 2000s, and we're creeping closer to 8 billion as we speak. Our existence alone is detrimental to the planet because of our need to create and survive.

>>9096028

With suicide you only reduce it by one, a mass murderer can make far more impact.

>>9096261
See that'a the thing: it has to be a natural disaster. Any mass decline in population caused by humans directly ends up either evening out or bolstering in the end, like how the world wars caused everyone to fuck like rabbits to fix the numbers lost overseas. It has to be unexpected and catastrophic, like eqrthquakes, storms, and volcano eruptions.

>>9096291
You misunderstand.

During the world wars (or any other major calamity in history) people didn't actively think "you know, we lost a bunch of people so let's have a bunch of babies to even out the loss". Rather, when you're unable to travel, have limited access to luxuries or entertainment, etc, people tend to fuck like rabbits because that's the one source of entertainment that they can still do.

It doesn't matter if it's caused by humans (a war) or caused by nature (natural disaster)--human beings fuck during bad situations. Simple as that.

>>9096305
I won't argue with that poor people fuck just to pass the time, but we're not capable of population control because of that. Any effort to curb the numbers by government enforcement is negligible at best while millions of people suffer under it and the environmental damage goes unchanged.

>>9096305
You misundetstand.

Babybooms after wars are caused by horny soldiers returning from the front and people having a positive outlook again and wanting to start families

>>9096328

That's only part of it. There are plenty of babies born during a war that had nothing whatsoever to do with soldiers returning home.

My grandparents on my father's side, for example: They lived near London and were affected first-hand by "the blitz". Neither my grandfather nor grandmother were soldiers or worked for the war effort. They had several children during the war, as did many others in a similar situation. My father was born during the 2nd year of WWII. And they went on to have 3 more children during the later years of the war.

>>9091782
Steak gives me heartburn. Why should I force myself to eat it just because muh steak meme? Veggie shit tastes good and doesn't hurt me

>>9096502
>Why should I force myself to eat it just because muh steak meme?
you shouldn't.

But regardless if you like steak or not you ought to go to the doctor and figure out why your body is having problems with something that 99% of the population can eat without issue.

>>9095903
You group hybridization and selective breeding to a lab made DNA/genetic modification as if it is exactly the same thing. You are the worst kind of idiot.

>>9095941
http://thefruitarian.com

>>9096232
Go eat a carniverous diet for six years and check back with us. I have been vegan for six years and i know your body will be sickly and in disrepair. My body however is fine.

>>9091856
Actually, the opposite, we'd have a surplus of vegetables grown due to livestock no longer existing (if we're doing hypotheticals) and there would hundreds of thousands of acres of land essentially covered with different plants according to their proper agricultural environment. Also, as a result, we could solve even more of the worlds hunger problem, not that you're reply back in any sensible way I guess.

>>9096232
Humans are not meant to eat meat, we are able to digest it, there's a difference. Our body composition, starting with our teeth, is a very herbivorous build, and "muh canines". Look at our teeth and compare it to a lions, a true carnivore. Also, another thing, we can get atherosclerosis and a plethora of other diseases from just eating meat, genetically genuine carnivores don't get these diseases when they consume their diet, except us. Weird huh? And another besides the whole "meat is made for muh body" most meats fall in the category of a type 2 carcinogen, that's always why when you see a person who heavily consumes meat usually has a generally "unhealthy" look, or atleast one of them.

>>9096676
>is a very herbivorous build,

Not really. We have a relatively short intestine. We don't have a rumen. We don't chew our cut, and (well, most of us anyway) we don't eat or own fecal matter. In fact, human beings are completely incapable of digesting cellulose.

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>>9096660
>there would hundreds of thousands of acres of land essentially covered with different plants according to their proper agricultural environment
>mfw livestock forage scrub turns out to be all that land is good for

>as a result, we could solve even more of the worlds hunger problem

We already have a colossal food surplus. Hunger is a distribution problem, not a supply problem.

>>9096676
>>9096682
This whole "lol we're supposed to eat x" argument is retarded on both sides. Point is plants are pretty universally healthy for us while meat has some inherent dangerous properties.

>>9096691
This. It's only been a recent trend forbidding super markets and food shops from throwing out food every day just to keep the stock "fresh". There are many areas that have no reliable source for food while others make it a point to waste it.

>>9096694
>plants are pretty universally healthy for us

>eat wrong kind of mushroom
>die

>touch wrong kind of plant
>be in pain for years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrocnide_moroides

>>9097116
I obviously meant edible plants, come on. You don't see people coming up with rotten and mouldy meat either.

>>9097122
>I obviously meant edible plants
>The fruit is edible if the stinging hairs that cover it are removed

>>9097133
>the meat is edible if we kill the animal and cook/fry it

>>9097139
>vegetables are always good for you as long as you ignore all the ways they can be bad for you, if not outright kill you

I'm not the one who went down this garden path, guy.

>>9091782
Might as well go out in the woods and die if you're going to be such a sad sack. At least the omnivores and opportunistic omnivores with way your flesh.

>>9097167
I mean you're being retardedly nitpicky here, it's more than obvious what I meant. Unless you're autistic and can't understand not-literally things in which case I apologize.

>>9097139
>Not knowing what sushi is

>Not knowing cyanide in almonds that were bitter in the past resulting in FDA making regulations.


God you vegans have aids in the fucking brains. Legit off yourself dipshit.

>>9097191
That's one tiny small aspect that wasn't even known in the west until like a few decades ago. Go try biting into a raw fish and see if it's good for you.

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>>9092528
No individual can really change anything.

>>9096676
>Humans are not meant to eat meat
stopped reading

>>9095761
Nonsensical reply, you can eat grass-fed beef or even better wild game

>>9095793
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRFsoRQYpFM

>>9096694
>plants are pretty universally healthy for us
even plants have some inherent dangers to us

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>>9096676
Atherosclerosis are only caused by cooked meat, raw meat cures it. We have no enzymes to digest raw plant cellulose unlike herbivores. If we were truly herbivores we would be able to live off of exclusively raw vegetables and grass but we can't. We have to process it (cook it) to be able to digest it. All cooked food is carcinogenic.

>>9097122
Raw meat can be eaten rotten and mouldy.

>>9096502
Eat it raw.

>>9095588
>eating hormone, antibiotic, carcinogen, saturated fat and cholesterol-ridden meat is normal
>eating plants is radical

ebin

>>9096516
> figure out why your body is having problems with something that 99% of the population can eat without issue.

Uhhhh

Except for the host of chronic illnesses Americans have. Are we living on the same planet?

>>9092535
ya i'm vegetarian and pansy liberal but i have more respect for my SO's backwoods, racist-ass hunter of a father than i do for most suburban dems who get their meat for cheap at the supermarket. it's disgusting how these massive operations work and anyone who buys from them is complicit.

weird way of thinking.


nature is cruel.

every living organism eats one another. not like we're eating the animals while they're still alive...which you know happens in nature. eating another living organism is like the most cruelest.

but nature is cruel. and believe it or not we're creatures of nature.

>>9098064
hell is other people.

factory farms... if I had to live in a apartment with certain individuals I'd probably shoot myself in the head. let the gates of hell swing open

vegans hate hedonism. misery loves company.

>>9098064
You can be an overweight and unhealthy vegan. Overconsumption and sedentariness aren't limited to one type of diet.

>>9098196
as my mind matures I'm discovering new pleasures I haven't dreamed of. I believe in moderation and quality of life. point I was making is an uncivilized man never knows a pleasure and that's what we're up against. many can't think for themselves. it's horrifying.

>>9096636
They are the same thing.

>>9093833
>Getting this mad.

Good job, >>9093833 point proven.

I'm emotionally drawn to veganism to prevent suffering but I don't understand it intellectually. If you believe that your pleasure cannot come at the cost of other creatures suffering, aren't you obligated to commit suicide? If you live as a vegan do you believe that your life justifies the suffering and environmental damage you cause simply by existing?

>>9098180
But we are at the top.
The top doesnt mean you are completely inmune to everything. It means most creatures in your enviroment are part of your diet.

>>9091782
Good, Im glad you vegans suffer

>>9098734
>I can't stop all suffering so why bother stopping any.
Shit tier argument. I want to limit suffering as far as it's still convenient for me to do so. I still kill mosquitos that try to bite me, I step on bugs by accident, I hit birds and animals that run in front of my car, this is unavoidable, but I still strive to reduce the suffering I cause. It's a life long effort and I know I'm doing what I can within reason

how can you justify reduce suffering when world one earth suffering builds accretion disk like suffering energy form beacon like quasar broadcast earth to universe invaders see beacon suffering see power of humanity which in turn inspire fear of earth so will not stage invasion

>>9100829
According to vegan cosmologists, we need to avoid catching alien attention at all costs. They are guaranteed to consider us livestock, and when they ranch us for our meat, the irony level of the universe will collapse the stars.

>>9098011
>you can't eat plants if you eat meat
>eating meat like your ancestors have for millions of years is a radical practice
>muh i'm scared that someday im going to die so im extremely afraid of eating anything other than plants
>muh eggs and dairy oppress animals
>muh i want to be as healthy as a starving african child
lol

>humans evolve as omnivores
>let's all stop eating half our diet
yes this is brilliant

>>9101212
Only that humans evolved mainly eating plants. Omni doesn't imply any ratio.

Vegans are typically liberal atheists, who reproduce at far lower rates than conservative Christian meat eaters.

I wonder how veganism will be doing a generation from now...

>>9101232
Veganism is actually on the rise breh

>>9101259
Yes, there are a lot of low-T nu-males in Silicon Valley

>>9094276

1.5 million usd is a small retirement. If you had a job or a plan for your life you would never think such a moronic thought.

That cow has fruits, thus not vegan.

>>9101124
wrong aliens see earth no suffering see weakness invade but quasar accretion disk formed suffering of beings see warning that earth is place of danger see they too die painfully should land on earth

>>9091920
You don't live in Canada do you.

>>9101219
omni implies that the ratio is at least 99-1, and veganism is 100-0. I know you can do better than that

>>9091830
pretty sure it's about food m8

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This whole thread is just further evidence that "stop liking what I don't like" is universal across all boards. 4chan really was a mistake after all

>>9102092
You said half our diet, that's a lot further from 100-0 than 90-10 which is more accurate. If you say retarded shit to begin with at least don't lash out at others afterwards.

>>9094163
But then you wouldn't be able to white knight shitpost for animals here.
And we need you faggots, to shitpost on.

>>9102884
i didn't say that, someone else did. I hadn't even opened the thread when that was posted, but I can understand why you'd think that.


point still stands, dude

>>9103034
Actually not really, omnivore as a classification means you can get nutrients from animal and plant sources not that you specifically need both. Heh the sex analogy fits pretty well actually, we're bi but that doesn't mean we'll ever fuck a guy in our life.

>>9103046
good point. In the end, It don't make much a difference to me, as long as you can respect my personal choices, and I can respect your personal choices. After all, I was the one who also posted
>>9102108

>>9101232
There is no typical vegan. Being vigilant is part of being vegan. Vegans often eat organic and fresh thus they are more fertile and likely to impregnate females.

The majority v of vegans are not stupid enough to bang handbag basic dependapotomuses though so its more of a selective breeding.

>>9091782
it's worth it youre just doing it wrong op. are you eating highly processed foods still like cookies, chips, non dairy frozen treats, along with mock meats? because those things will still make you feel like shit even if you aren't consuming animal products. as for it not being cheap you can literally fucking google and youtube cheap vegan meal plans and shopping lists to get an idea of what to buy, when to buy, and what to splurge on. i've been vegan/plant based for almost two years now and i never spend more than $50 USD on food (as long as i stick to my list. if i dont then i end up buy shit i dont need like snack foods). anyways, youre a loser and are giving up easily.

>>9091782
>I don't feel better. I don't eat better. It's not cheaper. Animals still suffer. I can't save this world. Might aswell eat a steak now and then.
this
the best thing to do is buy less meat and more veggies

>>9091855
Fuck your morals bihh

>>9104801
More of a selective breeding rather than an impulsive one. Lol.

***BREAKING NEWS***
BTFO! Meat maggots on suicide watch! Now for the weather, ''Is gone rain''.

>>9093717

but they would no longer be bred in the first place. were talking 1 generation vs EVERY generation.

i eat vegan because its not very hard for me and its way better on my stomach, and i eat way healthier now