/keto/

>>8888476
>exclude everything good

No thanks.

>>8888476
I went keto just because eating carbs and refined sugars makes me feel shitty.

tryna gain weight and put on muscle

>>8888476

It's not a meme because it's a diet, you mong. It's a meme because all you have to fucking do is eat a smaller amount of food in a day than you were previously.

If it's for some other reason like >>8888500
then sure, go for it. But if you're picking Keto just to lose weight, it is absolutely a meme.

>oh you're doing something about it
High-fat diets exacerbate insulin resistance.
>by going on a healthy diet?
Atkins is not a healthy diet. It's literally an inversal of what every health and nutrition expert on the planet recommends to eat for optimal health.

>>8888476
>includes diary
>excludes milk
Keto science, everyone! These guys really are on top of things.

>>8888519
No.
>>8888520
Yes.

>>8888520
Most dairy products besides milk have had the natural sugars, like lactose removed or converted to other compounds. Have you ever heard of cheese? How about butter? That's a pretty cool new technology.

>>8888476
>no bread
>no pasta
>no milk
What a miserable existence.

Pretty sure they consider Oatmeal unhealthy because it's got large potion of carbohydrates. Fuck those guys.

>>8888476

>a healthy diet?

That's a bit of a reach considering how strong the connection between saturated fat intake and insulin resistance and heart disease is, as well as how carcinogenic fried red meat is considered.

>>8888511
>But if you're picking Keto just to lose weight, it is absolutely a meme.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022347602402065

>>8888520
There's barely any sugar in cheese compared to milk, you imbecile.

>>8888611
>>8888683
Milk is still 49% calories from fats. Still pretty high. If the criteria for excluding a food is their relative carb balance with regard to other macros weighted against how energy dense the food is by weight, excluding milk but including broccoli does not make much sense, since broccoli has more carbs per 100g than milk, while milk has more fats than broccoli.

keto is helping my acid reflux

t.former vegan

>>8888694
>If the criteria for excluding a food is their relative carb balance with regard to other macros weighted against how energy dense the food is by weight
It isn't.

>>8888757
Then what is the criteria?

>>8888774
Limiting your daily carb intake enough to enter and stay in ketosis, which is around 20g

That's why something that has 4.8g net carbs per 100ml is usually excluded from the advised foods.

>>8888476

Aren't berries made of mostly fructose?

>>8888838
Then there is no reason to exclude milk, many of the foods on that pyramid can kick you out of ketosis if you eat enough of it, which is pretty easy if you don't carefully monitor quantities, I see no reason why that shouldn't apply to milk, and hence, why it is excluded.

>>8888854
There's a reason why they're at the top of the pyramid

>>8888878
>if you eat enough of it
Yeah no shit, buddy. Pointing out the obvious isn't an argument. You can eat pure sugar and stay in ketosis too if you just eat little enough of it.
You get why sugar is excluded from a recommended food list in a carb limiting diet though, do you?

ah, the "don't eat anything filling" diet

>>8888896
Well, my point then is, why is milk excluded and not at the top of the pyramid?

>>8888906
>why is milk excluded and not at the top of the pyramid?
Because there's no good reason to include something that doesn't provide you with anything you won't be getting more efficiently from the cheese and butter that's included, same why there's no sugar cubes on the top of the pyramid either.

>>8888906
you can have small doses of milk on keto
that chart is stupid

>>8888913
Milk has a better micronutrient profile than other dairy. That's a reason.

>>8888921
>Milk has a better micronutrient profile than other dairy.
But that's wrong.

>>8888901

fatty meat and fish are extremely filling desu

>>8888500
Stop eating shitty carbs. Putting on weight with keto is way harder. It's much better for cutting or mantience. Also eat lean meats or you will clog your arteries.

>>8888935
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/69/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/8/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/18/2

I haven't looked at every kind of cheese, but these are very common cheeses so I'm using them. Milk has a better balance than either of them, but when you adjust for how much of each micronutrient you are getting per calorie, as those values are by weight, milk far outstrips these two cheeses.

I'm not saying cheese doesn't have other benefits due to being fermented, but overall, milk has a better micronutrient profile.

milk is recommended for exclusion because it spikes your BG

same thing for most beans, not including black beans and chick peas

atkins nutritionals--the company that does food science research and produces the branded food products--sells frozen meals with pasta. it isn't meant for people who need to be in ketosis to burn excess body fat.

all of these exclusions and limits are gradually reduced as patient approaches goal weight.

if patient is on ketogenic diet for non-weight health reasons like seizures, diabetes, skin conditions, or as part of a differential diagnosis, the limits would start more severe and not be lifted unless directed by a physician.

in short: milk much sugar. you not much brain.

>>8888955
>244g milk
>still loses against every cheese when talking about nutrients despite those being measured with less weight

Come on now.

Like I said, you're not getting anything from milk that you can't get more efficiently from the dairy that's recommended, without the risk of getting thrown out of ketosis.

>>8888476
>keto
>healthy

Lmfao

>>8888960
You can eat black and chickpea beans on keto?!

>>8888960
Berries will spice BG too, yet they are included. As an example, if you take the same amount of strawberries and milk, by calorie, milk only has a 10% higher glycemic load. Not much of a difference. Blueberries on the other high, for the same calories, has a much higher impact on your blood glucose levels than milk.

>>8888973
I don't think you understand how adjusting micronutrient to total calories works, or why that is important.

>>8888500
Doing keto to gain weight is retarded

>>8888511
>It's not a meme because it's a diet, you mong. It's a meme because all you have to fucking do is eat a smaller amount of food in a day than you were previously.

Not quite. While I do mostly agree that the advantages of a keto diet mostly stem from the fact that you're just paying attention to what you are eating, I do find that a diet completely void of carbohydrates makes it easier to manage hunger. If I were to consume a more balanced diet with carbohydrates, I would have a more difficult time dieting. This is mainly a practical argument.

On paper, it makes no difference

>>8889012
>I don't think you understand how adjusting micronutrient to total calories works, or why that is important.
Why is it important?

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Why do people have such animus for arguing about nutrition memes? What do you think you're defending?

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>>8888476
This chart is retarded. There's a reason real clinical ketogenic diets moderate protein: pairing high fat and high protein will kill you, unless you're an olympic swimmer who drinks gallons of water and eats pounds of greens.
You're already in a state of pre-acidosis, and you're piling on goddamn red meat and bacon, likely cooked to the point of being indigestible.

You can absolutely lose weight and control a handful of diseases by replacing sugars and carbs with fat.
That has nothing to do with fad diets that recommend stuffing your face with meat every four hours.

>>8889012
and if you can tolerate the spike you can drink it above the recommended serving sizes. berries are a convenience food and honestly a serious relief from eating heavy rich foods all the time: you eat a quarter cup of berries with some frozen cream as a dessert and you just ate nearly 30% of an induction phase daily net carb limit.

when you're past induction phase (normalizing the BG, cementing the lifestyle change to a healthier diet, going into/staying in a fat-fed ketogenic state) the atkins researchers will recommend having a 4oz cup of whole milk, or yogurt, or soft cheese like ricotta. beyond that it's about your ability to tolerate BG increases without coming out of ketosis until your needs are met.

most people can't tolerate the glycemic load of a glass of milk and the ones who can probably shouldn't be indulging it anyway. that's why it's _recommended_ for exclusion and berries aren't. you can get that fat and those nutrients with less risk to your progress; as the phase we're discussing is relatively brief there would never be a risk of micronutrient depletion.

perhaps more important to point out: nobody reading this board is at risk of micronutrient depletion for not drinking milk.

>>8889073
>pairing high fat and high protein will kill you

do you have a link to a paper showing this? the research i've read shows pairing high fat and high carb will cause atherosclerosis; nothing about high fat high protein by themselves

>>8889054
Your total food intake is determined by calories, not weight. Hence, the micronutrient payload per calorie is very important.

For the same weight, not only does cheese seem to have less micros than milk, it gets more calorie dense, so the micros per calorie gets much worse when you ferment milk in to cheese.

Now, cheese is a low risk for tipping you out of ketosis, but some of the foods on the pyramid are worse for your ketosis than milk.

>>8889059
Autism. Nothing is gained, humanity loses. Dance along or sit down and keep quiet.

>>8889083
>an actual informed answer
Well, I have nothing to more to add. The reason milk is excluded is because people are stupid, I agree with that.

Keto is still dumb in general though, regardless of having the intelligence to do it properly.

>>8889167
>Keto is still dumb in general though, regardless of having the intelligence to do it properly.
what else am i going to eat with my acid reflux genius?

>>8889167
Why do you ignore the part where you have to limit carbs and thus choosing certain foods makes more sense than others?

Of course cheese is more calorie dense than fucking milk, but you won't eat as much of it as you'd drink milk and thanks to it having more nutrients than milk you'll get what you need without the high carb intake.

>but some of the foods on the pyramid are worse for your ketosis than milk.
Then your issue should be with those items, not milk.

>>8889095
It increases your blood acidity (which is kind of the point of the diet). That's known to be dangerous for people with existing kidney disease or a predisposition for gout, some of which is hard to diagnose until you hit it with such a diet.
The jury is still out on whether ordinary people will develop kidney stones and bone loss from eating a diet high in protein, but research is ongoing:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1169452/

I should say that high protein in theory isn't all that bad for you, if paired with leafy greens and sufficient hydration at all times.
The problem is that a lot of diets, such as the one in OP's pic don't distinguish between types of meat, and recommend red meat to maximize fat and protein intake. Red meat is bad for you, a fact that I could easily source but I figure you already know.
I can't say I know of anything wrong with eating a shitload of chicken and olive oil every day, as long as you supplement it with adequate leafy greens and stay hydrated constantly.

>>8889170
Acid reflux can have many causes most of them unrelated to diet, so I would recommend you see a doctor if you haven't already.

If keto does help your acid reflux and there is nothing else you can do about it aside from reduce the symptoms through diet, then you clearly are in the exceptional case of being not in the "general", normal, healthy population, who don't need a keto diet to be healthy and thriving.

Still doesn't mean that keto won't fuck you up. You have my condolences.

>>8889180
>Why do you ignore the part where you have to limit carbs and thus choosing certain foods makes more sense than others?
Yes, but just like berries are fine in small amounts, so too with milk.

>thanks to it having more nutrients
More macronutrients, but way, way less micronutrients. I tend to emphasize micros in diet since macros are very easy to get, but getting your micros right can be tricky, especially with diets like keto where some of the best foods for micros are excluded or limited.

>Then your issue should be with those items, not milk.
I know those items are at the top since they are meant to be taken in small amounts, and won't kick out of ketosis. I'm just saying milk is more or less the same in that regard. But as >>8889083 pointed it, it is excluded because people tend to overconsume. I can understand that, people are stupid and explaining the details as to when and how much milk is fine, as you can judge from the rants so far, is a bit more info than you can fit on a nice simple colourful picture, so I'd probably do the same.

Still doesn't mean milk can't be part of a "balanced" ketogenic diet.

Keto "works", but it is not a sustainable diet. Once you reach your desired weight, one of three things will happen:

1. You start eating like you used to again, and gain all the weight back plus some

2. You stay on keto, and end up having a medical emergency as your body cannibalizes itself for energy.

3. You start on a normal balanced diet like you should have done in the first place.

Sadly #3 is pretty unlikely because you clearly didn't have the willpower to eat fats, meats and dairy in moderation.

>>8889226
>Acid reflux can have many causes most of them unrelated to diet, so I would recommend you see a doctor if you haven't already.
yeah waiting for the next month process of them putting shit up my butt and mouth.

tried going vegan for a month but it just made my symptoms worse
tho eggs still fuck me up. but grilled chicken breasts and veggies are fine so far

>Still doesn't mean that keto won't fuck you up. You have my condolences.
yeah probably but i just want to eat without my heart and stomach burning and hurting :(

>>8889167
What are you even arguing? Milk has carbs, cheese doesn't.

>hey bruv Im on a diet
>hey brah wanna here about my new diet?
>hey boi so there is this new diet
>hey nigguh dis the real shit man
vegan style

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>>8889226
>Still doesn't mean milk can't be part of a "balanced" ketogenic diet.
Although, now that I think about it, if I had to follow that diet with a very small carb quota, I'd stick to certain veggies, nuts, seeds and berries, since there are many of them that puts milk to shame, so you might as well pack in the best for what little you can fit in.

In that regard excluding milk makes sense. But is like saying: "hey, this diet is so shit, you better avoid this because you can only eat so much healthy food without interrupting ketosis".

>>8889248
>What are you even arguing?
I have no idea. I'm just nitpicking things because I'm bored.

>Milk has carbs, cheese doesn't.
Berries have carbs in them, and they aren't excluded.

>>8889243
Honestly, instead of trying this diet or that diet, just try different foods and see how you react. At least until you know what's up. It seems your condition is unrelated to keto/vegan/whatever dietary groups, and could be caused by some others factors that follow a different pattern. Could help your doctors too if you have a list of foods that give you AR.

>>8889241
>tfw I lost 17lbs in a month on a high carb diet because I had enough discipline to put down the fork
Yes I know this isn't a safe amount to lose in such a short time, but hey, I still did it and I'm fine. It all comes down to calorie counting. I counted a bit less than I should have, but I still counted it.

>>8889322
>Honestly, instead of trying this diet or that diet, just try different foods and see how you react.
yeah good idea. im just a pussy and don't want the heart attack pain again

>>8889241
>2. You stay on keto, and end up having a medical emergency as your body cannibalizes itself for energy.
Why would it do that?

>>8889226
>but way, way less micronutrients.
But that's wrong even according to your own sources here >>8888955 where the cheeses tend to have at least equal to up to twice as many micronutrients per 100g
I could maybe understand your """"argument"""" if there were no other way to get that shit but with milk, but that's not the case.

>>8889322
>Although, now that I think about it, if I had to follow that diet with a very small carb quota, I'd stick to certain veggies, nuts, seeds and berries, since there are many of them that puts milk to shame, so you might as well pack in the best for what little you can fit in.
>In that regard excluding milk makes sense.
Fuck you for wasting the time of several anons in this thread.

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>>8888476
The correct answer is to stop giving a shit about what other people think.
That goes for both being fat and doing something about it.

Ketoniggers are the new vegans

>look at my cool and edgy diet guys! All the celebrities do it!
>i cant eat bread!!! Im on keto ya know!!
>woah woah woah didnt you know that 6 BILLION years ago we didn't have agriculture you evil wheat-gendered scum!!! Im doing it all natural!
>Duuuuuude look at my instagran of my five eggs and bacon lol!!! #healthyasfuck

Insufferable

>>8889216
interesting abstract. thanks! i can't get my hands on their methodology but a couple things could be pointed out here:

1) ketogenic diets should never, ever, be "high in protein". they are by definition high in fat, moderate protein, low carbohydrate (of which most should be green leafy vegetables).

2) this matters a great deal when looking at portion size for "proteins" in low carb diet recommendations: because ketogenic macros tend to look like 70/30/10 fat/protein/carb, meat choices tend to be very fatty. of our 4-6oz of "protein" perhaps 50-60% by weight would be actual protein with the rest being fat.

using standard protein consumption recommendations of 0.36 * patient weight in pounds, and comparing it against a recommendation of 12-18oz of "protein" per day, meaning perhaps 7-10oz, we get a daily average protein intake of perhaps 75-90g.

this works out to somewhere around 25% of calories from protein for a person eating a 2000 calorie diet. while it's true that ketogenic diets tend to discount caloric excess as relevant--because fat is catabolized and ends up as ketones, which are breathed/sweated/pissed out rather than being stored--a significant protein excess can cause overproduction of glucose in the liver and knock the patient out of ketosis.

this is why seizure patients receiving ketogenic therapy tend to be fed coconut oils for 80-95% of their calories. i clicked seventeen recaptchas to post this. i hope someone finds it useful.

>>8889860
I'll be using cheddar as a reference since I just learned feta is made from goat and/or sheep's milk, so a direct comparison isn't fair when comparing it to cow's milk.

>But that's wrong even according to your own sources
I am using the "Completeness Score" value as a quick shorthand, and milk's is 45, higher than cheddar's 33. It takes all the micros into account, not just the ones that go up or down with fermentation. But, for completeness I looked at each micro and...

>cheeses tend to have at least equal to up to twice as many micronutrients per 100g
...this is why you measure micronutrient density per calorie, and not weight. 100g of cow's milk clocks in 60 calories, but 100g of cheddar cheese clocks in at 403 calories. Assuming you are consuming 2000 calories, that is ~3333g of milk, or ~500g of cheese. The only micro that exceeds the 7x(rounded up) adjustment of micros you would expect in cheddar is vitamin A. Some are roughly 7x as you would expect, many are less than that. Sometimes much less. I'm not counting sodium since that is added as salt as part of the process to make cheddar.

So the facts still stands, ignoring changes in relative micro balance differences, to get roughly the same amount of micros from cheese as you could get from milk, you would have to consume proportionally more calories of cheese than you would from milk.

Hence, after adjusting for calories, milk is in all but one instance equal to or significantly superior to cheddar when it comes to micros.

>I could maybe understand your """"argument"""" if there were no other way to get that shit but with milk, but that's not the case.
My argument uses basic arithmetic, maybe that is why you don't understand it.

>>8889865
Not really. I'm sure many learned that keto is shit, and I learned over more about why it is more shit than I initially thought.

>>8889882
>posting this
>calling others insufferable

Go eat your plain oatmeal

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>>8888901

>fibrous veggies
>fat
>meat
>not filling

>>8888500
>tryna gain weight and put on muscle
/fit/ here, you need carbs to trigger hypertrophy. That said I too am in keto right now. Eat "normally" during the colder months.

>>8888664
Who cares about this shit you can replace it with vegetables. Potatoes = radish pasta = zucchini , also you can make almond bread easily

>>8890496
>/fit/ here, you need carbs to trigger hypertrophy.
This is incorrect, as evidenced by the countless people who have gained weight and gotten diabetic following Atkins and "Keto" (which is a brand name for Atkins)

>>8890568
hmm, proof? I thought diabetes was triggered by sugar intake - people actually use keto diets to treat type 2 diabetes

also this study from 2013 seems to indicate that carbs are not necessary for hypertrophy
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3850644/
>Is carbohydrate needed to further stimulate muscle protein synthesis/hypertrophy following resistance exercise?

>There is a growing body of literature analysing the impact that co-ingestion of protein-carbohydrate versus carbohydrate alone has on protein synthesis. However, there are far fewer studies examining the actions of co-ingested carbohydrate-protein compared to protein alone. More importantly, no chronic study has addressed the effects of adding carbohydrate to protein compared to protein alone on muscle hypertrophy.

>In conclusion, whilst it cannot be excluded that carbohydrate addition may provide benefits for recovering athletes, on the basis of available data, no further beneficial actions of carbohydrates, irrespective of GI, are evident concerning muscle hypertrophy when a protein supplement that maximally stimulate muscle protein synthesis is ingested. Further studies are required before conclusions and recommendations can be made.

if anyone could point out where the study goes wrong i would appreciate it

>>8890203
>waaaaaaaaah it's shit because there's not this high carb liquid in the recommeded pyramid waaah
sure thing buddy

>>8890360
Sick insult, ketonigger

>>8890568
obviously you will gain weight if you eat in excess of your caloric needs regardless of diet. Also the difference between "keto" and "atkins" is enough to warrant separation. You get to eat more carbs in atkins. "Keto" is just the shorthand of ketogenic, which is the state you enter into in "keto." Atkins is not strictly keto because of higher carb allowance.

>>8889848
That's the whole point of the diet. That's what ketogenesis does. With no carbs incoming, keto burns the body's fat reserves for energy. It's literally a mechanism to survive when you're starving. Why do you think it would suddenly stop once you're at X weight?

>>8890958
stop eating at a caloric deficit, duh

>>8890696
> I thought diabetes was triggered by sugar intake
No

>if anyone could point out where the study goes wrong i would appreciate it
The study is correct in that you can build muscle and/or get fat without carbohydrates. Dietary protein itself is insulinogenic and anabolic, some more than others (animal protein is more anabolic than plant protein, which is just one more reason why a diet high in animal protein is ineffective long-term for weight loss). Contrary to low-carb dogma, the human body is perfectly capable of storing endless amount of excess fat in body fat and muscles without insulin action

>>8890958
No, it's a metabolic process that uses fats as the primary source of energy. Yes, it is useful for survival during times of food scarcity, but it is also useful for when fats are the primarily available source of food. The body won't metabolize its fat reserves unless it is in a caloric deficit. The bottom line is we are very adaptive organisms. We are biological machines that can run on different fuel sources.

This cheese vs. milk debate is fucking ridiculous.

1. Micronutrients are hugely overrated in the nutrition world. If you're reading this, you're not deficient in anything. If you even vaguely attempt to include nutrient-rich foods (beef, offal, seafood, green vegetables), you're extra fine.

Milk is not keto-friendly. The extra little bit of, like, phosphorous or whatever compared to cheese is irrelevant. Calcium is a meme micro propped up by the dairy industry.

>>8891523
This was going to be a numbered list before I realized how dumb that argument really was.

>>8888476
>excludes beans as a whole
>excludes rice (yeah because all those asians who live on rice are so fucking fat amirite)

>>8891534
The bulk of this thread is just people playing devil's advocate anyway.

>>8891550
Yeah and food like pumpkin and sweet potatoes are SO BAD FOR YOU MUST AVOID

>>8891550
What is in beans and rice that is necessary for health and can't be found in low-carb green vegetables?

>>8891580
I think the "all carbs are inherently bad" meme is based on an incomplete understanding of food science and more research is needed, because I lost a ton of weight when I was making mostly curries and eating a lot of rice (then I got on the bread again, press F to pay respects to my bathroom scale)
I don't think I've ever heard of anybody on the planet getting fat off of a diet of beans, either.

>tfw making keto chicken parm
I hope it turns out good

>>8889012
Why are you so obsessed with milk? It's pathetic. The flavor is for plebs, the nutrients are more easily obtained elsewhere, and it isn't even nutrient dense to begin with, the producers have to add that shit in

>>8892218
please tell me what to put in my coffee

I tried it for 3 weeks. I lost 30 pounds in water weight. I couldnt stand the food and just went bsck to my 60% deficit

>>8892246
>30lbs in water weight
excuse me?

do you weigh 700lbs?

>>8892246
I started at 290ish pounds and only lost about 3 lb of water weight

>tfw want to keto but rice is like 50% of my diet

This thread leads me to believe 90% of you have no idea what keto actually is, but you insist on posting anyway. Please at least Google ketosis for 5 minutes

>>8892258
Welcome to /fit/ enjoy your stay

>>8892251
380 was the weight I was at when I started Keto. Original weight before deficit was 425. I drink LOTS of water tho like 5 liters easily.

>>8892267
You're a big guy

>diabetes (t1) runs in family
>chance that one day I'll just develop it out of nowhere and enjoy a much shittier life and reduced lifespan
nice

>>8892277
*was a bigguy4u* I am down to 330. We all can make it lads.

>>8892235
butta

>>8892235
Legit question? In keto or low-carb, use cream. It only has a small amount of sugar. 1-2 tablespoons in a cup will be more than enough for most people (who like it), giving 50-100 kcals, mostly from fat and 1g of sugar. Whole milk in coffee sucks.

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>>8892277

>>8892320
Don't do this. It's stupid. It won't stay emulsified unless you frappe it, and even then not very long. Cream is fine on keto.

>>8892287
Type 1 here. If you don't get it by 30, you probably won't. Were still not sure if there is a genetic component to type 1, but most people who do have it, get it before 20.

I know a pair of identical twins who grew up in the same household. One of them got type 1 as a child, the other didn't. I think the leading hypothesis is that it's an autoimmune response to some kind of virus.

There are some anecdotes out there of people slowing or halting the onset of the disease by switching to a very strict ketogenic diet when caught early enough. There's also the possibility of a vaccine in the future.

>>8888476
Keto is good. But these thread will always be cancer because 4chan is hopefully normie when it comes to things that are on the fringe of the fringe like keto or flat earth.

I came here to lurk, but you're all shit when it comes to dieting advice

>>8892351
>identical twins
If one twin gets it the other will only get it 50% of the time. There's a study on this.

on my second week now. feels like forever. also see too many carbs now.

>>8892218
>Why are you so obsessed with milk? It's pathetic.
>implying I'm obsessed with milk
If anything I'm obsessed with nutrition in general, I'm just talking about keto logic regarding milk and dairy in this thread.

I agree with everything you said about milk though, especially the part about flavour. Don't forget about all the puss in milk! Yum yum!

>>8892235
You put coffee in your coffee, faggot.

>>8892377
I'm a staunch advocate of a whole food plant based diet, am I fringe enough?

>>8892235
this was my problem too, was still using regular creamer. switched to heavy cream and sugar substitute. and sugar free creamer is also used sometimes.
did the switch to diet cola a while back, so the taste didn't take long to get accustomed to. can do black coffee fine, but been too broke to swing for fresh beans, so i just use instant.

>>8888476
Might work might not work. However calling it healthy is a stretch, if you do it wrong it's probably one of the worst possible diets. If you do it right it's fine but still incredibly restrictive, why the fuck would you do that. Even as a type 2 you don't need to avoid carbs, just eat plants and low GI/GL foods.

>Hey anon you want some of this pasta I made?
>No thanks
>Why not!?
>Im on a low carb diet
>LOL FAGGOT I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR DIET. KETONIGGERS ARE THE NEW VEGANS. MEMESMEMESMEMES

>>8892780
>I'm just talking about keto logic regarding milk and dairy in this thread.
The logic is simple, one has a fuckton of sugar while the other doesn't. It's been a complete non-issue throughout this thread

>>8892377
>keto
>fringe
>2017

nigga I see you retards talking about your paleofaggotry outside of restaurants in public these days whining over even a hint of carb on their plate. you atkins retards have become mainstream and even more disgusting as a result because now the rest of us have to cater to your lifestyle like the other special snowflakes who scream like babbies whenever your widdle bubble that says [[no toxins in muh safespace]] gets violated.

>>8888901
holy christ you are one dumb motherfucker.

please NEVER have kids.

>>8888944
>Also eat lean meats or you will clog your arteries.

The best research data that 1955 has to offer!

>>8888938
>>8890436
>protein
>filling

Enjoy monitoring your fat intake every single day to ward off rabbit starvation before the CVD from prolonged ketosis does you in. Doctors must love ah, """people""" like you and the rest of the monkeys ITT pretending their armchair nutritional science is worth a damn because they shat it out on 4chan hard enough.

>>8894195
>>protein
>>filling

It is though

and I don't keto, so keep your ad hominems to yourself.

>>8894213
>I don't keto

Then you're just an armchair trying to convince other people to throw away their lives. Protein by itself isn't good enough to sustain a human being, this is basic nutrition.

>>8894195
>>8894217
I think keto is retarded but so are you, protein is filling and keto is not about protein, it's about replacing carbs with fat. You actually can't eat too much protein because it would throw you out of ketosis. You're fuckign stupid.

>>8894225
>Nobody on /ck/ knows basic human nutrition
>Still tries to strut anyway

It has been observed that the human liver cannot safely metabolise much more than 221–301 g of protein per day (for an 80 kg/176 pound person),[3] and human kidneys are similarly limited in their capability to remove urea (a byproduct of protein catabolism) from the bloodstream. Exceeding that amount results in excess levels of amino acids, ammonia (hyperammonemia), and/or urea in the bloodstream, with potentially fatal consequences,[4] especially if the person switches to a high-protein diet without giving time for the levels of his or her hepatic enzymes to upregulate. Since protein only contains 4 kcal/gram, and a typical adult human requires in excess of 1900 kcal to maintain the energy balance, it is possible to exceed the safe intake of protein if one is subjected to a high-protein diet with little or no fat or carbohydrates.

Enjoy monitoring your fat intake every single day for your fad diet so you don't die, armchair. Enjoy your CVD from prolonged ketosis. Enjoy dying young, in other words. Enjoy being an organ donor. You'll make a great one, I'm sure - just skip the brain.

>>8894240
Ok you are literally retarded and not in the 4chan meaning. Like actually unable to comprehend words.

>>8894251
Nice no argument as always from the armchair nutritionalist I KNOW MORE THAN EVERY111 CUZ IT ME AND MY FOOD board.

Enjoy monitoring your fat intake every single day ketofag. Enjoy your CVD, enjoy becoming a young organ donor. It's your future. You choose it, not me. I choose to listen to sanity rather than blogspots. You chose this fate, and you have to live in it now.

>>8894295
What part about >>8894225
>keto is not about protein, it's about replacing carbs with fat.
didn't you understand? It's just a few words, anon.

>>8894300
Enjoy monitoring your fat intake every single day ketofag. Enjoy your CVD, enjoy becoming a young organ donor. It's your future. You choose it, not me. I choose to listen to sanity rather than blogspots. You chose this fate, and you have to live in it now.

>>8894319
Not an argument

>>8894329
>I-I wanted to die young anyway! YEAH I HOPE I DIE BEFORE I GET OLD SO KEWL

Enjoy monitoring your fat intake every single day ketofag. Enjoy your CVD, enjoy becoming a young organ donor. It's your future. You choose it, not me. I choose to listen to sanity rather than blogspots. You chose this fate, and you have to live in it now, 60's reject.

>>8894329
He's just coninuously spouting his stupid bullshit, ignore him. Probably just shitposting. I hope.

>>8894342
>t. i can't even spell continuously right

This is the long-term effect of ketosis on brain functioning right here. None of you can even debate because all of your neurons have atrophied. Sad!

>>8894340
Why do you repeat something that's not relevant to keto, something that's been pointed out to you several times now?

>>8894352
>literally needing fat in order to survive and not succumb to protein starvation
>not relevant to keto

Enjoy monitoring your fat intake every single day ketofag. Enjoy your CVD, enjoy becoming a young organ donor. It's your future. You choose it, not me. I choose to listen to sanity rather than blogspots. You chose this fate, and you have to live in it now.

>>8894355
>>8894340
>>8894319
>>8894295
>>8894240
>>8894195
(You)
Now fuck off.

>>8894355
>literally needing fat
Yes, that's the point of keto. Now what has your pasta or this >>8894240 to do with keto?

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>yes good continue to stuff your face with trans fats.
>>8894189

>>8888476
Are there any Keto-friendly wines?

>>8894877
>believing big sugar's lies

>>8888476
keto is for fatties

The only reason i'm following this shitty meme diet is because i have IBS and severe lactose intolerance (and not an imaginary one, the six blood tests i had to do on a period of two hours after ingesting condensed lactose was a definite proof) and not eating sugar or milk helps me considerably.

If it wasn't the case i would drop it in a heartbeat.

>>8888476
>Cancer the diet
It only """works""" because people go on diet make a conscious effort to avoid junk food and processed garbage along with limiting their calorie intake

If you want to lose weight simply reduce your calorie consumption in the way that is most convenient for you even if that means that you'll eat chocolate bars every meal

If you want to be healthy eat a whole plant diet

>>8896417
Well yeah. I don't see why a fit person would bother going into ketosis. Keto can make fatties less fat. Well spotted.

>>8896357
The sugar vs fat shilling on /ck/ is hilarious people get so emotional about it

>>8896456
and why should we care what fat people do....?

> no beans
Fucking kill me now.

How is cheese is allowed but not milk?

This diet is memes, nothing makes any fucking sense.

>>8896485
hang urself

>>8888955
>>8889012
>>8889167
First time commenting, but you are so full of shit it is obscene. You got BTFO by the source that YOU linked when everything is set to 100g. Now you're trying to further contradict it.

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>>8888476

> healthy diet

>>8896456
>keto
>for fatasses, diabetics, and epileptics
>relevant to well-adjusted people

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>>8896587
>You got BTFO by the source that YOU linked when everything is set to 100g
see >>8890203

Comparing the foods by weight is useless since you consume according to how many calories you need, not by how much it weighs.

The reason as far as I can tell that milk is excluded is that for the minuscule amount of carbs you can eat on keto, nuts, berries and veggies fill your micro deficiencies better than milk for the same carb payload. There is a lot of irony in this.

Being BTFO by an argument like that is like punching yourself in the face and declaring victory.

>>8888476
You make existing harder

>>8896964
>Comparing the foods by weight is useless since you consume according to how many calories you need
Again, on keto you have a limited amount of carb intake, so that's simply wrong and that's why drinking milk is a fucking retarded idea as you yourself admitted here >>8889322

You can stop now

>>8888476
except keto doesn't exclude any of those

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>>8888476
i think until mcdonalds invents keto-approved burgers, america will never be ready for keto

>>8898057
you can easily ask for a keto friendly burger, since low carb diets are big enough to have many people asking for them.
or just toss the buns and ask for no catsup inside.

It's literally impossible to stop eating bread

>>8899204
Depends on your lifestyle and how much time you allocate to cooking
Bread isn't all that bad, it's empty calories at most and doesn't harm you in any meaningful way unlike all the saturated fats a keto diet promotes

>>8899363
It's super easy to overeat bread

I'm just now switching off keto after reaching my "goal" and I can down like 500kcal of bread in two or three bites, it's hard to do that with eggs and broccoli.

>>8899554
so what? nobody has ever gotten fat from eating bread, plus it is one of the most nutritious things you could eat

>>8900261
>nobody has ever gotten fat from eating bread

Eating bread is literally like eating plain spoonfuls of sugar

>>8901169
>>8901167
no carbs and sugar are different, one is stores as fat other is not

>>8888476
>trending diet
>literally at least a thread a day over here
>/fit/ guys irl don't stop talking about it since a couple months
It is a meme, retard.
Now, it can be good or bad regardless of meme status.

>>8888520
>>8888694
>>8888774
>>8888878
>>8888906
>>8888921
>doesn't know shit about the keto diet but keeps talking shit about it based on his ignorance.

>>8902143
This is bait, right? Eating too much of anything will make you fat, dingleberry.

>>8888476
>avoid milk
>consume dairy

>avoid sugar
>consume berries

McFucking what?

meat and oils should never be the core of a diet

also why the fuck are beans excluded?

>>8888888

keto is dum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzHLAqyO7PQ

>>8902680
Berries such as raspberries, blackberries and strawberries have a very low carbohydrate content, yet they are relatively high in dietary fiber and essential vitamins.

Milk is relatively high in lactose, but cream and all the products made from cream, when separated from those sugars is not. In fermented dairy products, such as cheese, the lactose in milk is converted to lactic acid by bacteria.

Actual keto dieters: 60% meat, 30% cheese, 5% artificially sweetened desserts, 5% Halo Top.

And then they wonder why they suffer from the "keto flu".

>>8902769
You can do keto as a vegan eating cruciferous vegetables, fermented bean curd, and unsaturated vegetable fats like olive oil. That guy is a retard.

>>8902699
Meat is not the core of the diet. You cannot eat much more than maintenance levels of protein and stay in a ketogenic metabolic state. If you choose to , you can get adequate amounts of protein from fish or tofu. Beans are excluded because they have a large amount of complex carbohydrates which require glycogenesis to metabolize.

>>8888476
i lost wieght by eating less

>>8902827
vegan keto is still dum because it's still keto

>>8888511
>It's a meme because all you have to fucking do is eat a smaller amount of food in a day than you were previously.
Or... Or... You eat the same amount that you did yesterday, except you don't eat grains or sugar.

>>8902804
If someone actually ate like that, which is not a ketogenic diet, they would be feeling lethargic from the glycemic load as the high amount of protein is breaking down into sugars. Real "keto flu" is an electrolytic imbalance during the onset of ketosis because people forgot to drink water and eat a little extra salt than usual for a couple days. The sensations of dehydration and salt deficiency are confusing to people who have never gone a couple days without eating or run 10 miles.

>>8902856
I'll have you know that I'm on a strict raw paleo-vegan diet.

>>8902699
>beans excluded

Yep. That's what crumbles the ketofag diet to dust. It's almost like the shillers of the books had to come up with something completely outrageous to get the attention of diet whores.

>>8902871
I really can't wait until those people start showing up. Or ketovegans. A beautiful combination of the most obnoxious diets.

>>8902881
I don't understand. If the metabolic process requires a person to not consume many carbohydrates, and beans have a high carbohydrate content, therefore beans are not an appropriate food to eat in ketosis, then that crumbles the ketofag diet to dust? It must be a conspiracy?

>>8902871
"Paleo" if for narcisists, Look at their forums. Full of asshats who believe most of the world's population should be exterminated so a select few (which automatically includes them) can live their caveman fantasy. My mother, who is narcissistic (but I repeat myself. all parents are) is "paleo" but still eats beans and grains and just calls it "paleo"

That shit is actually pretty far from what real paleolithic humans ate.

Don't go on a diet, just live healthy. Eat right everyday. I know the bad stuff tastes good, but break free. Brussel sprouts taste good too. Cook for yourself, eat right. Eat shit on occasion

>>8902864
but we need to eat grains and beans

how else will ConAgra and FritoLay stay in business?

>Include nuts
>Exclude beans
They're the same fucking thing.

>>8888476
use the ketogenic diet if you want to forget your past
or where you put your car keys this morning

>>8903795
you could probably eat chips on keto, thats like 90% oil

>>8888476
>can have cheese
>can't have milk

Explain yourself.

>>8904777
>I don't know how cheese is made

>>8903808
Beans have 10-15g net carb per serving, nuts only have 1-2g carb.

That being said, with the right vegetable choices someone can squeeze in a serving of beans and still be within their carb budget.

>>8902969
>Full of asshats who believe most of the world's population should be exterminated so a select few (which automatically includes them) can live their caveman fantasy.
Care to link to these based people?

>>8904847
>cheese and milk are totally different things

>>8904864
Looking at how one had its lactose fermented by bacteria and has less carbs and therefore is ok on a keto diet, yes.

>>8904760
No, dried starch is retarded carb-dense. Every single potato chip has like 4g of carbs.

>>8888611
This

I did keto for a couple of months and felt amazing, turns out I'm lactose intolerant..

>>8904853
vhemt.org

They're mostly veganfags, though, contrary to what that stupid dick keeps blathering.

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>>8904875
>Cheese doesn't have lactose
>Cheese has lower carbs compared to milk

loool @ the vegan anti dairy faggots. lemme guess, you fell for the calcium leeching meme? kek

I like how all forms of dieting on here are a no win situation. If you listened to /ck/ for advice on what to eat apparently anything that tastes good will kill you, but its also apparently required to survive and thus were doomed to a terrible lifestyle.

>>8891550
Asians aren't fat because they practice portion control, not because their food is amazing for them.

>>8888734
Same here. I was taking 2 rantidine a day. Haven;t needed one since starting keto a month ago.

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>but Dr. Now that's just a meme diet

if you want to lose weight take in less calories
if you want to live a long time and be healthy eat mostly plants

this is actually all you need to know