What are some arguments AGAINST vegetarianism?

>i like to eat meat

>>8769445
That shit is gay and queer

You don't need to eat as MUCH meat, but people would be healthier if they ate meat less frequently and focused on the sustainability of animal agriculture.

There aren't really any, other than that.

>>8769445
Humans are omnivores.

>>8769445
it has no meat in it

Valid arguments? Not many. Unless they drink almond milk. Per gallon almond milk takes more water to produce then a gallon of cow milk. Add in the fact that the majority of almonds are grown in water scarce California and the environmental impact is greater than the impact of cows.

Since vegetarians can eat eggs and dairy, not many.

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>>8769445
it's pharmacologic virus marketing
assorted kids, for free, are fighting with you every day to make you live off pills till your death

>>8769463
Incredibly wrong.

>>8769483
Data to back that up?

>>8769445
meat good

>>8769445
Eating the food that was intended for animals. How cruel !

It's wasteful of resources. I'm sure some will excuse it but you have to eat like 10 pounds of vegetables every day vs only one or two ponds of meat. So that 8 extra pounds has to be shipped around the world consuming many gallons of fossil fuels. It's no coincidence that global warming started at the same time (early 70s) as veganism. Also, Hitler was a vegan

>>8769505
You absolutely do not need to eat one to two pounds of meat a day

>>8769445
>vegetarianism seriously limits your diet, meaning you won't get to experience many great dishes
>getting proper nutrition can take a bit of work, especially if you're a vegan
>some foods vegetarians eat are still extremely detrimental towards the environment, i.e. soi
>it's possible to buy meat from animals grown in decent conditions
>most (but not all) vegetarians are self-rightous cunts noone in their right mind would want to be associated with
>basing your entire lifestyle around human morality (an evolutionary trait that makes us cooperate instead of killing eachother all the time) is strange and pointless when all other animals on earth don't give a fuck and almost all life is based on consumption of other beings

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>>8769445
Vegetarians are okay.

Vegans are the spawn of satan.

>>8769445
It's a Pajeet thing.

>>8769919
Pakistanis aren't particularly known to be vegetarians, anon.

>>8769505
And it took 40 pounds of vegetables/grains to make those 2 pounds of meat, retard.
> Also, Hitler was a vegan
Hitler was a good man.

>>8770014
Hitler wasn't a vegan, wasn't even a full vegetarian. He ate a lot of ham.
It's a common myth.

>>8770032
Still a good man.

>>8770042
Personally, never met him.
I'll take your word for it, Uncle Heydreich.

>>8770049
:)

>>8769445
In terms of health? Can't really think of any major ones. The healthiest populations often had/have a little bit of meat in their diet (still like 85% carbohydrates).

>>8769445
>Harder to obtain certain nutrients found in meats. Most of the diet will need to be hoisting up those missing parts
>Limited dishes depending on how strict your vegetarianism is
>Eating out is difficult
>Will be reading labels a lot now
>Will have to cook more
>Lower cholesterol levels could increase chance of depression
>you'll be eating larger portions in order to keep your caloric intake up and not lose weight

>>8769505
Did you know there are meat alternatives? I bought some vegetarian corn dogs the other day because my local store only sells either those or gigantic $20 boxes which don't fit in my freezer. They taste good so it all works out.

>>8770079
Most of those really aren't a big deal though, at least in my opinion as someone who is by no means vegetarian but virtually never buys meat himself.

>>8770090
Those are the worst kinds of things you can buy if you're vegetarian and don't want to harm the environment.

Just buy free-range beef instead of industrial shit like this.

>>8770104
I'm not saying they're a big deal. Just bringing up the disadvantages.

Like, a large portion of your time is going to be figuring out if you're getting a healthy of nutrients. There's a reason why people often use supplements.

>>8770090

>vegetarian corn dogs
Over processed shit.
You take the most unhealthy and gross food in existence and make it even worse.

I was raised vegetarian. Veggie father, meat eating mother. Started eating chicken and turkey from ages 7-12. Rebelled and became vegetarian until age 21 at which point I began eating sardines and chicken. I now eat lamb as well as fish and poultry.

Optimizing one's health is not simple. There are a lot of conflicting ideals in the health world. Ultimately, I was raised to respect animals as a vegetarian, and I have even more respect for them now that they sustain me.

>>8770120
In my experience vegetarians don't really think about their diet that much either. They just avoid all meat and usually buy whatever they feel like eating instead. Almost nobody actually plans every meal and the amount of nutrients they eat every day,

that's for people with related diseases or some professional athletes. There are many unhealthy vegetarians too, white bread, cheese and coke is a vegetarian "diet" too.

>>8769483
your sources are?

>>8769445
Protein is harder to get.

>>8770152
>>8769484
The burden of proof is on you, brainlet. Youre the one making the claim hes just disagreeing.
>"(you)i believe lions sprout wings and fly to the north pole every morning". "(Him):ok prove it" "(you) WELL YOU CANT PROVE THAT THEY DONT"

>>8770147
I personally can't go vegetarian without supplements or constantly looking my diet without my body feeling like an old man.

Fuck, I'm omnivorous and I still have to take eldery multivitamins to not die.

>>8769445
If only the objective, barebone facts matter, it's somewhat more inconvenient in today's world. That's pretty much it.

>>8770164
Your endocrine system is probably shot. Get more sunlight during peak UVB aka astronomical noon.

>>8769445
I wouldn't have a problem with vegans or vegetarians if they didn't obsess about it so much.

>omfg, did that ladle just touch beef stock? Throw it away!

I honestly think any possible health benefits that one might get from fad diets are obviated by the amount of stress involved in making sure one doesn't eat a molecule of a proscribed food item.

>>8770130
They make it better usually though? I don't know about corndogs, but the vegetarian hotdogs are much higher in protein and much lower in fat, usually have some fibre thrown in too.

>>8770164
Well I'm in my early twenties so I hope that's pretty far away for me. I don't like the idea of supplements, you can easily get your vitamins through a bit of variety in your diet. Like sweet potatoes for A, fruits for C, dairy for K etc.

I'd only consider supplementing vitamin D and B12 since they can be hard to obtain in decent doses (still absolutely doable).

>>8770178
>le vitamin D meme
I already get enough

>>8770195
You're fine, I'm pretty sure it's just bad genes.

Veganism makes passive-agressive assholes.

How do you know when a vegetable is no longer safe to eat?

I bought a tomato about six months ago and it still hasn't rotted, just got a little wrinkly/pruney.

Is it always safe to eat a vegetable as long as it hasn't rotted, or do they expire in other ways?

>>8769445
Disbalance of testosterone, and you're eating a shit ton of food with xenoestrogen making you even bigger faggot that you are now. Now fuck off.

>>8769445
Lack of knowledge leads to errors which leads to deficiencies which ultimately leads to health problems.

There's nothing wrong about vegetarianism if you know your business. 90 % of people don't.

>>8770296
>disbalance
*imbalance

>>8770291
If there isn't any visible mould and it doesn't smell bad it should be fine to eat.

>6 months
What kind of mutant tomato is that? You might be able to make a fortune, go get that analysed. But seriously throw it away, after at most a couple of weeks I wouldn't trust most things anymore. Except onions, garlic and lemons that shit lasts so long.

>>8770312
It's a yellow tomato, not sure what variety.
I'd plant the seeds but I don't want to cut into it, lest I shorten its lifespan.

At this point I'm just seeing how long it lasts.

>>8770282
Maybe, if you haven't already do a blood analysis, it might be a psychological thing. Also exercise if you aren't already.

>>8769505
>Wasteful on resources
>Meanwhile you aren't factoring in all the food you have to FEED the ANIMALS throughout their life that you could have directly fed humans

I'd never be a vegan, but lets not bullshit about cost and efficiency. We eat animals because they taste good.

>>8770324
>implying I have money to get a fucking blood analysis
lol

>>8769445
See
>>8769447
>>8769454
>>8770156

Meat is calorie-dense, high in protein, and has vitamins concentrated in it.
Vegetarians are likely to be weak due to lack of protein, stupid from lack of vitamin B12, and probably mentally unstable to boot.

When we colonise space, pigs and cows will not be far behind.

>>8769445
Apart from Falaffel there really isnt any good foods.

Meat tastes good, its simple.

>>8769445
Basic biology?

>>8770162
Fine. Check out the ucla study from June 2, 2016 titled "almond milk vs cow milk life cycle assessment"
Almond milk takes 17 times more water per liter than cow milk.

>>8769505
I don't think I've ever eaten 10 pounds of vegetables over 3 meals.

>>8769505
I'm pretty sure that overall, per-calorie, vegetables cost less to produce.

>>8770768
Humans are perfectly capable of a healthy vegetarian diet, which contains a lot of dairy and eggs in any case. Only reason not to be "vegetarian" is it's dumb to turn your diet into an ideology. People should eat less meat, but there's no reason to make that into a rigid system.

>>8770014
>it took 40 pounds of stringy bullshit that humans can't eat, grown where human crops can't grow anyway to make those 2 pounds of meat

Context, son.

>>8770649
are there any studies that say vegans/vegetarians have B12 deficiencies?

>>8770888
If only. I eat more vegetables than meat, but fuck all giving it up entirely. That's just a stupid attempt at tribal confirmation. We have enough tribal associations shoved down our throats everyday, why would I willingly add another layer?

Ironically, instead of congratulating me on eating more vegetables, I still get shit from vegetarians and vegans because I haven't eliminated all meat. Fucking faggot tribal clones.

>>8770888
you can cut out dairy and eggs too, desu

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>>8770649
Piiiiiiiiiiiiiigsssss innnnnnnnnn spaaaaaaaaace!

>>8770959
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23356638

the only way to obtain the proper amount is to eat fortified foods

>>8770989
Not if you want to obtain vitamin b12 naturally

>>8771030
Guess what nignog
omnies can also be b12 deficient and anyone in their right mind will supplement with b12

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>>8770296
How come vegans have more test than omnies then?

Also, you are the one drinking and eating shit with mammalian estrogen in it. "Xenoestrogens" arent estrogen to humans, they just attach to the same receptors and possibly block mammalian estrogen from attaching to the receptors, which is why vegan men probably have more test.

>>8771063
>omnies can also be b12 deficient
when did I say this is not true?

>anyone in their right mind will supplement with b12
Because they understand that their diet is lacking what they need naturally because a no animal products diet is unnatural and will cause severe problems.

HAKKSITMS 44919174 THE KING COME DOWN

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pescatarian master race

>>8771095
>muh natural
Guess what homo
typing on a computer ain't natural so you shouldn't be here
gtfo

>>8771095
>because a no animal products diet will cause severe problems.
You couldn't be more wrong.

Here's the position of the American dietetic association
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864
>It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.

>>8771125
Enjoy your mercury poisoning.

>>8771146
Again, those foods are most likely fortified with b12 or they're using supplements. You could not naturally obtain b12 from just plant sources.

>>8771169
Fun fact: shit is the primary source of B12 for beasts.

>>8771169
So? You could not obtain a computer from any natural sources yet you use one. I don't give a fuck about what's natural, I do what's right and good.

>>8771178
And? I don't see how that changes anything.

>>8771182
Okay, well you do you. Just don't use the whole "veganism is natural" spiel that people tend to use.

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>>8771169
Also the next time you try to come up with an argument, look up some basic logical fallacies. If you imply x is natural therefore x is good you are literally justifying anything that is deemed natural. Rape and murder are natural too.

>>8771191
>Okay, well you do you. Just don't use the whole "veganism is natural" spiel that people tend to use.
Had I used it? No. Get the fuck out with your assumptions.

>>8771193
This image is triggering me.

>>8771211
It fucking should be, meattard. Literally every bullshit argument you guys come up with defending the animal holocaust relies on logical fallacies.

>>8771193
When did I say it was good? I simply stated that you can't live off of a diet that has no animal products without adding supplements and thus the idea that is it natural is wrong.

>Rape and murder are natural too
Yes and various species live due to these things. I don't see your point tbqh. Are you trying to say that nature itself is bad?

>>8771202
Not saying you had. Just saying to not use that in future arguments.

>>8771216
I'm vegan tho.

>>8771233
>Just saying to not use that in future arguments.
Well way to go you retard, refuting shit nobody has claimed. Do you want a medal?

>Yes and various species live due to these things. I don't see your point tbqh. Are you trying to say that nature itself is bad?
So are you saying that raping people and murdering animals are good things because they are natural? How can you be this dense?

>>8771245
I don't get where you keep thinking I'm saying that those things are good. Where have I stated this so I can correct it?

>>8771233
Also, its A supplement, not supplements (plural).
B12 is literally the only thing needed on a diet with no animal products, because in modern societies we treat our water and we don't eat unwashed vegetables. B12 is a vitamin produced by bacteria and bacteria only, which reside in soil and in the large intestine.

>>8771255
You were the one to come up with the whole appeal to nature bullshit, obviously trying to justify killing animals when there's no reason for it but you failed.

>>8771191
>Just don't use the whole "veganism is natural" spiel that people tend to use.
but you're the one doing it right now

>>8771273
this one gets it

>>8771268
How did I fail? Not trying to be sassy but I would truly love to know.

>>8771302
You failed to give an argument against vegetarianism.

>>8771314
Sorry, I don't know how to word this properly but how exactly?

>>8769445
Veganism is a step up in every single way

>>8769454
Habitually, not biologically

>>8771320
What was your argument again then? I refuted your claims pretty through and through.

>>8770761
t. god awful cook

>>8771327
I believe it was simply "you cannot live on a no animal products diet with no b12 supplement or fortified foods"

>>8771057
As opposed to naturally obtaining your food by driving to a supermarket to buy your food which has gone through numerous preserving processes?

>>8771337
>I believe it was simply "you cannot live on a no animal products diet with no b12 supplement or fortified foods"
How is that an argument against vegetarianism? Just the the fucking pill or eat the fortified foods.

>>8771351
I'm assuming this should only be done in areas that people can obtain these things, right? So people in poorer areas or food deserts or simply lack the resources shouldn't be doing this?

>>8771359
>I'm assuming this should only be done in areas that people can obtain these things, right?
Yeah, like most of the world can. You definitely can, posting on an unnatural computer and all, *wink*
>So people in poorer areas or food deserts or simply lack the resources shouldn't be doing this?
Yeah, if they have no other option.

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Here's the cool thing, vegetarians who would impose their choices onto others: If you want me to stop eating meat, YOU have to make arguments which compel those in authority to outlaw eating meat. If I want to keep eating meat, I don't have to do anything. Least of all do I have to waste my time arguing against NOT eating meat.

>do as you must, I have already won

>>8769911
I think you'll find we're the spawn of seitan.

>>8771383
Yeah, you can keep being an asshole despite all the evidence suggesting that everyone would be better off if you just could come off the meat, you son of a whore meat addict.

>>8770979
They aren't giving you shit because you are in the wrong tribe they are doing it because you are still acting unethically

For example if You go from raping 10 people a day to 2 people that's better than nothing but if you understand that rape is bad you should be aiming for 0 rapes a day

That life is life and your arbitrary conditions of what you consider to be life is entirely your opinion. Studies have shown plants to communicate, react to pain, and be communal.

Life is entirely about subsisting on death, choosing plants over meat doesn't make you any better.

I don't want to hear about your cruelty or eco foot print either.

>>8771405
Forgotten your little Logical Fallacies infographic already, guy? That sounded pretty ad hominem to me.

>>8771419
>I don't want to hear about your cruelty or eco foot print either.

Lalalalalal im doing nothing wrong lalalalala I am right lalala stop talking to me!

>>8769448
This is actually a half reasonable argument. When you get past the health and ethics issues the point still stands that most vegetarian males are small and effeminate. Maybe its something best left for older men with heart issues and high cholesterol.

>>8771419
>plants react to stimuli

Stunning

>>8769445
Most vegetarians are stuck up pretentious asshats

>>8771484
All

>>8771484
I don't think I've ever seen a vegetarian/vegan be an ass when it comes to this debate.

This shit reminds me of tumblr debates expect you replace oppressor with curse words

>>8771484
>sorry little cow, I need to torture and murder you because all the vegetarians I know are stuck up

Eat food because it tastes good. Food shouldn't have some sort of fake morality.

>>8771545
What if children tasted good?
And if a giant industry popped up where women were enslaved to just have babies that were kept in prisons until they were big enough to eat?

>>8771562
Last time I looked, children and cannabalism wasn't really considered 'food'.

>>8771562
A Modest Proposal for reducing the poor population

>>8771575
Plus, there's that weird brain virus thing.

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>>8771535
You've never seen the veggie guy be an asshat in those debates? Really? Here you go:

>>8771063
>>8771076
>>8771193
>>8771202
>>8771216
>>8771245
>>8771268
>>8771351
>>8771375
>>8771405
>>8771417
>>8771445
>>8771544
>>8771562

But then again, irritability IS a symptom of malnutrition, so I suppose I can forgive the little guy.

>>8771684
shit, sorry I missed a word because I'm terrible at prereading my stuff

I meant:
I don't think I've ever seen a vegetarian/vegan NOT be an ass when it comes to this debate.

vegan food tastes gross and their baked goods suck

>>8771711
>shit, sorry I missed a word because I'm terrible at prereading my stuff

All that meat is clogging the arteries in your brain

>>8771727
Actually, if I didn't have meat, my mental health would probably be worse due to lower cholesterol levels and I'm barely skidding by as it is.

Plus my arteries are fine. I do need to put more cardio into my life though.

>>8771715
>all plants taste gross

oh cool

>>8771749
so you agree that vegan baked goods are bad? I mean, bread is fine because it's bread. But when it starts getting into the "eggs and milk" department, it falls short most of the time.

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Diversity is key to a healthy diet!

>>8771727
>still acting like an ornery cunt and pretending you didn't get called out on it

>>8769445
The same arguments about most pleasures that aren't really necessary

>what are the arguments against not drinking/smoking weed/watching tv/playing video games/etc?

>>8770832
He's not gonna reply cause you actually gave proof lol

>>8771562
Human morality is for humans. If you want to extend it to animals, have fun with that, but it's not an obligation.

>>8771562
False equivalence.
Eating children is wrong because they are sapient or potentially sapient.

The only animals that come close to that line are great apes, dolphins, and corvids, none of which are common foods in first world countries.

>>8770921
Only applies if you're talking about grass fed cows.

>>8772042
Why are omnivores such passive aggressive cunts? I think you are just fiber deficient

>>8769544
>basing your entire lifestyle around human morality (an evolutionary trait that makes us cooperate instead of killing eachother all the time) is strange and pointless when all other animals on earth don't give a fuck and almost all life is based on consumption of other beings
I wonder what it must be like to be this much of a burden to society that you can think this
Morality is the most important facet of humanity

>>8769445
Meat is a great source for protein and fat. Also a great source for vitamin A, B and E. Also magnesium, zinc and iron can be primarily sourced from meat. Fish is a good source for omega3 unsaturated fat.

>>8770921
>because the meat you eat comes from roaming cows eating wild grass
Most cows are fed processed corn, and most grass-fed cows eat from plots of grass that have to be grown in specific conditions using tonnes of water

>>8772426
Ooh, good one. Except for the part where you just copied the crack he made at you despite it not making any sense the other way around.

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>>8772477
>processed corn
>plots of grass that have to be grown in specific conditions using tonnes of water

I grew up on a cattle farm, and uhh, this is impressive.

>>8772477
>humans use tonnes of water
>destroy all humans

>>8772434
>Morality is the most important facet of humanity

You're thinking of anime.

What that guy is saying is that projecting a human trait onto a world that blatantly lacks it is silly. He left out that it's also species-supremacist and is a colonization of animal culture :^)

>>8772477
>Using water

Who the fuck cares? What else are you going to do, waste it?

>>8772434
>morality is the most important facet
>morality makes us not kill each other

EL OH FUCKING EL

The only reason we're not all killing our species is because we're pack animals and live in herds. The only morals you are seeing is, in basic terms, hive mind mentality that keeps the herd together and cohesive.

>>8769445
I'm a butcher

So if people stopped eating meat I'd be out of a job

>>8771441
Nope, that was just an insult

>>8772502
ThatIsthejoke.jpg

>>8769445
GAINS

>>8772548
So you basically admit that you are a savage nigger who has no regard for well being?

>>8773440
lol no I'm saying that what they're saying is the most important facet is false. It's the fact that we're tool making pack animals that make what we are now. Oh, and that we can throw things real good.

>>8773712
So you think we can't evolve from being savage nigger pack animals to civilized people?

>>8769445
Some areas can't be efficiently plantfarmed as only grass or unpalatable/indigestables vegetables(often corn variations) can be grown theres. To use all soil efficiently and feed more people, meat is important

>>8773949
You know that meat production uses 50% of the worlds grains, right? The worls could sustain more people if we didn't eat so much meat. You are wrong.

>>8772434
morality and empathy have no inherent value. they're there to detract you from killing the rest of your hunter-gatherer tribe. this is why i.e. you don't give a fuck when a stranger dies while the death of someone you knew personally can be traumatising, even if they were never all that important to you.
this doesn't mean that adhering to morals in human interaction is stupid, on the contrary - you need morals and empathy to interact with society. but claiming they're absolute and projecting them on the world around you as if the world cared is silly and arrogant, and indicative of a bad case of what we call moralfaggotry
what I'm saying is don't spend your life tiptoeing around those moral problems that exist only in your head and don't force other people to do the same

>>8769445
There is not argument against vegetarianism except the fact we developed canines to eat meat. But biologically speaking if you consume the correct amount of proteins and vitamins you should be fine.

>>8773985
Yes and no. I agree we should not produce AS MUCH meat. But the corns fed to pigs are not the same corns we as humans eat

>>8774029
>canines
You mean those almost blunt incisors?

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>>8771402
Seitan is legit the only good meat substitute tho.
>Actually absorbs the flavors of spices and vegetables you cook it with
>Has a meaty texture unlike rubbery tofu or gritty tempeh
>Some vegetarians actually won't eat it because it reminds them of meat too much

>>8771216
Calling it "the animal holocaust" and associating eating meat with human genocide is itself a fallacy.

>>8771322
Say that to the canines in our mouths

>>8774727
>Although most of us conduct our lives as omnivores, in that we eat flesh as well as vegetables and fruits, human beings have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores (2). The appendages of carnivores are claws; those of herbivores are hands or hooves. The teeth of carnivores are sharp; those of herbivores are mainly flat (for grinding). The intestinal tract of carnivores is short (3 times body length); that of herbivores, long (12 times body length). Body cooling of carnivores is done by panting; herbivores, by sweating. Carnivores drink fluids by lapping; herbivores, by sipping. Carnivores produce their own vitamin C, whereas herbivores obtain it from their diet. Thus, humans have characteristics of herbivores, not carnivores.

>>8774738
>The appendages of carnivores are claws
except when they're not, which is very often the case
>those of herbivores are hands
??????
>The teeth of carnivores are sharp
just like human fangs, huh? isn't that interesting...

this is some of the worst goal-orientated pseudoscientific cheery picking I've ever seen, pretty much on the level of creationists, flat-earthers and the fat acceptance movement
vegetarianism really is a cult at this point, holy shit

>>8772405
POW.

SOMEONE GET THIS MAN A MEDAL HE HAS FIRED SHOTS SO WELL

>>8773941
Biological imperative. We cannot without being nonhumans. That is who we are.

If you happen to find an enclave of elves please let me know. I want to fuck their women.

>>8774766
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/
> worst goal-orientated pseudoscientific cheery picking

xD

Not to mention that the human metobolism is optimised for plant based foods. Shitpost elsewhere.

>>8774738
Almost like we have the aspects of both herbivores and carnivores. Might even call us omnivores. Might wanna check pigs out Skippy.

>>8772405

>The only animals that come close to that line are great apes, dolphins, and corvids, none of which are common foods in first world countries.

Maybe not 'first world', however they are dietary staples in the rest of the world...

So, ipso facto, false equivalence...

>>8772405
>sapient

if we pretend that's a real thing, and it's not, how would you measure it?

Vitamin B12 cannot be naturally be acquired through eating only plant-based products.

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>>8774964
>what is tofu?
>what is soy milk?
You're a fucking idiot son.

>>8774930
>however they are dietary staples in the rest of the world
The savagery that takes place outside proper civilization should not be a large factor in the formation of a moral system.
It's irrelevant.

>>8774980
He did say naturally.

>>8774980

Those are things that have artificially produced Vitamin B12 supplements added to them. Neither tofu nor soy milk contain naturally-occurring B12.

>>8774963
Turing test.

>>8774963
By the being's capacity for metacognition.

>>8769445
Meat tastes good. End of story.

>>8775018
There are some natural things like algae or mushrooms that have B12. However even if that wasn't the case I don't see it as an argument against veganism, B12 deficiency is actually a general problem even among people who do eat meat. It's something everybody should be aware of.

>>8775037
>how would you measure X in a beige
>by the being's capacity for X

great

>>8775053
I suppose the answer you're looking for would be behavioral studies, then.

AYO HOLD UP
SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS
*scratches ear tunnel*
YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT
*sips on soy milk frappucino*
THAT WE WERE
*reads huffington post*
LIKE, LITERALLY
*complains about white privilege online*
TOTALLY
*decreases testosterone level*
HERBIVORES AND SHIET???

If we stop eating meat, then they'll just sell it to other countries. You're not going to save the environment by eating less meat. That's a huge myth. There is a gigantic market in China that would love to get their hands on the safe, inexpensive meat that we are extremely fortunate to have.

The weather is starting to get nice where I live. If you're in a similar situation, then get out of the house this weekend. Go get a burger and enjoy the luxury that many don't get to have. If your politics/beliefs are destroying your life, then you need to turn off the computers, televisions, magazines/newspapers, etc. See if your insurance will let you see a therapist. Start eating meat a few times a week and enjoying life again.

>>8769445
>What are some arguments AGAINST vegetarianism?

It's basically a spoiled, rich white boy faggot disease...

that's also why nobody respects those vegetarians, vegans, n shit.

>>8774782
>Dr. William C. Roberts as a source
>a guy that enjoys eating tuna and chicken.

if human metabolism is optimised for plant-based foods then why do bbody builders eat so much meat?

>>8775079
Everyone knows if we don't eat meat Chinese are going to ramp up their meat consumption a few million tons in order to eat all that meat we were eating. They'll just start eating 99% meat.

>>8775055
no I mean specifically.

>>8775096
I see what you did there. Cute.

There's other places than just China to send the meat. But I'm sure that a population that is 4.29 times larger than ours can make room for the meat we don't eat.

>>8775095
That attack doesn't even make sense. Like it's just plain retarded.

We are omnivore but we have more characteristics of hebivores. We can eat plants and meat but our body is more suited for a higher plant intake because we evolved eating plants. Dr. Roberts probably eats chicken and tuna because he likes it. Nowhere does he say eating meat is unnatural for humans.

>>8775096
They could also send it as foreign aid. They're not going to start making less meat because Americans stop eating it.

>>8775106
Oh, well why was the first answer not satisfactory then?
If a being possesses metacognition then it can be said to be sapient. Simple as that.

As for how you would determine whether the being does, see the second answer.

>>8775095
Just because people do something doesn't mean it's necessary. If body building culture thinks that's the only way to get big they'll do it whether or not that's true. AFAIK there hasn't been any studies of people taking plant/animal protein/placebo so there's no science either way.
Also, humans aren't meat to handle all the steroids body builders take, but clearly steroids still make them big.. So really it could depend on the result you want.

>>8775079
>meh doesn't make a difference, might as well behave unethical
If the demand in America dropped drastically the suppy would too, I am pretty sure China wouldn't pay the same prices. Plus they'd have to import and pay taxes so it probably wouldn't even sell that well there. It's like with many things, if everybody did it it would make a big difference. And even if the suppy would stay the same it doesn't change the ethical point of view.

>>8775113
I don't think it would be economically viable to raise meat in the U.S./Europe and sell it to Chinese peasants.

>>8775118
Yeah they'll keep making it to give it away to everyone as foreign aid

>>8775120
the behavioural studies. what are they specifically.

>>8775182
Are you asking me how to conduct a study which measures metacognition?

>>8775223
yes.

>>8775243
Here's an example of one conducted on rhesus monkeys: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2853638/

I don't see how it's relevant to the argument anyway, unless you are proposing that such a study is not possible.

>>8775096
You know that china is halving their meat production because they have fucking issues with health and environment that amerifats are too obese to tackle on?

>>8769448
not an argument

>>8771471
no, it really isn't. you're as retarded as the vegetarians you hate

>>8769445
I'm B12 deficient and my body does a piss-poor job of absorbing the nutrients from vitamin supplements

The only argument I really need

>>8775415
I was being sarcastic, autist. Also I'll be impressed when Chinese stop eating endangered animals because they think it will make their little pee pees hard and when breathing in their cities isn't comparable to sucking on an exhaust pipe

>>8775440
B12 is better absorbed from supplements than food. B12 in food requires what is known as "intrinsic factor" and adequate stomach acidity in order to become available for absorption later in the intestine. B12 in supplements is always absorbed because the first step is no longer necessary. B12 deficiency is medically treated with B12 supplementation and/or B12 injections (in severe cases), not food.

>>8775415
>china
>cows causing problems with the environment

Yeah, there are so many cows farting in Beijing you have to wear an oxygen tank to breath. Damn cows! That's why our air is poisonous! That sounds like the kind of rationality the current US administration would use.

>>8775440
I think there's a disease that causes your body to be unable to absorb B12, might want to see a doctor.

>>8769445
Americans do it.

>>8769445
Annoying whities do it

>>8775543
>implying the worst vegans aren't also black
apparently it's racist to eat meat too

>>8775559
look there's an annoying whitey now

>>8775568
gonna hijack another pride parade and whine about it?

>>8775582
nah, I only do that on the weekends. Today is the day where I tapdance for Massa