Yet ANOTHER Knife General

Have you looked into what steel you want under the carbon steel umbrella?

what are the benefits of a carbon steel knife over stainless?

you ----> www.kitchenknifeforums.com

>>8381052

I haven't, and I know there's a wide variety. If it's anything like pocket knife carbon steel, I'm fairly partial to 1095. Harder than 1045 but still waaaay more malleable to sharpen than any stainless.

>>8381059

Sharpening carbon steel is stupid easy. What would take an hour on a block with stainless takes minutes with carbon. The edge retention isn't as good, and it's a little more high maintenance (requires oiling often), but it's give and take. The quick sharpening time is what I'm interested in.

Sabatier k or 4 elephant authentic.

these are the original pattern for the gyuto stolen by the japanese anyway and the quality maintains

Stainless steel is a much better steel for kitchen cutlery.

In addition to being more rust resistant (not rust proof) It is also harder and retains a better edge for longer because the chromium in stainless steel is an extremely hard element.

Stainless is brittle though, so "carbon steel" is more suitable for impact tools like axes and hammers. Don't be an idiot and get a "carbon steel knife".

>>8381076
in fact, why not just direct everyone who posts on this board to an alternate cooking-related forum because god forbid anyone ever discuss topics related to food and cooking on the food and cooking board

>>8381043
Vg10 is an excellent kitchen steel

>>8381119
To be honest, as a cook, I don't know those steels. Most gyutos are made from white #1, white#2, blue #1 and blue #2. Here are the pros and cons of carbon vs stainless steel.

1. Carbon steel is harder on the Rockwell scale. This means they'll hold their edge longer than stainless.

2. Carbon steel will catch a good edge with fewer passes on a stone than stainless.

3. Carbon steel is highly reactive and will rust faster than stainless.

4. Carbon steel will chip easier than stainless.

That's about it.

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Why shouldn't I get this knife? I'm coming from a stamped stainless steel wusthof (german profile, no finger guard) and when I slice green onions I get the accordion effect. I was recommended to go with a french profile like pic related, but I was getting some saying the bolster/fingerguard will fuck me as I sharpen it. I rarely sharpen my knife now, I just use a steel about 4x's a week. I'm a homecook but I cook about over 15 meals a week. Should I listen and look for a jap version of a 10" french knife?

>>8381341

>Carbon steel is harder on the Rockwell scale. This means they'll hold their edge longer than stainless.

Are you sure that's entirely true?? My understanding of having worked with carbon steel is that it's softer than stainless steel. Perhaps carbon steel for cooking differs than carbon steel for other utility uses, but carbon being harder than stainless just doesn't sound right to me.

Fact check?

>>8381271
/ck/ is entertaining for sure, but but for actual competence a specialized forum is still hard to beat.
Some of the world's best knifemakers and several owners of the leading high-end knife shops in the US are regulars on that site.

>>8381361

no, this is a good choice. your cutting issues are technique, not blade, this won't fix the problem, maybe just make it easier for you to fix your issues

>>8381405
>Some of the world's best knifemakers and several owners of the leading high-end knife shops
>some of the world's best shills and bullshit artists

yep

I have the choice of a chef's knife or a santoku, what do?

>>8381451

Chef for all-purpose.
Santoku for cutting dem veggies.

Ok so here's my question. A knife from wallmart costs 1$. They only.last about a month. But there sharp enough to cut my meat and veggies. So for 12$ a year I can have sharp knifes year round. My question is why should I buy a 50$ knife? Is it can stay good for 4 years if I take care of it? And if all its doing is cutting shit what's the real difference? Or is the knife more like a status symbol thats better at cradling an ego then it is cutting a roast?

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has anyone used a knife from north arm before? they are a relatively unknown small company in british columbia and I tested their chef's knife, it cut beautifully but I bet many knives can with proper sharpening, I suspect I may get one as a christmas gift so I wanna know

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Rate my patina.

>>8381361
get the wustoff version

you aren't getting full contact with the blade, cut more toward the tip

>>8381451
Chef's. I've been a professional cook for 7 years and have been cooking all my life, and Ive never needed a santoku over a chef's. I've honestly never understood why they exist, and always assumed there was some obscure japanese use for them.

>>8381923
they are good for chopping green onions

>>8381923
Because kitchens are full of aspies who want SPECIAL JAPANESE KNIFE

Santoku style can suck my dick

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>>8381932

>anything you can do i can do better

Seriously though, there's nothing about the design of a santoku that makes them particularly well suited for chopping green onions or vegetables in general compared to a Western chef's knife. Some people just prefer the shape/style (and yes, Rachel Ray played a large part in popularizing them in the US, which by itself makes them kind of faggy in my opinion).

>>8381945
>taking advice from a country that eats with sticks

SANTOKU A SHIT

RACHEL RAY A SHIT

>>8381949

>reading comprehension

>>8381955
I WAS AGREEING WITH YOU PIG DOG

>>8381965

Okay. It sure didn't come off that.

>>8381587
A decent knife can last you much longer then four years if you keep it sharp. Like most things in life, if you invest into something that takes some upkeep it'll have a longer useful life.

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>>8381977

>>8381587

Going from a cheap Walmart knife (even if you take care of it) to a decent $100+ knife is like going to the doctor and being told that one leg is 6 inches longer than the other, being given a special shoe to correct the problem, and then realizing that you've been living for years with all sorts of back pain and soreness, but were so used to it that you didn't even realize that life could be much much better. You'll be like, "holy shit! why have I been wasting all those years of my life struggling in pain!" All of a sudden you will look forward to doing prep work and take special care of your new knife like it's your baby.

A chef's knife is the most important tool you have in the kitchen, and three figures really isn't that much money for a decade plus investment if you plan on cooking somewhat regularly. It's not a status symbol; I'd have a nice knife even if I lived alone and never had anyone over to my place.

>>8381403
It is factually correct. At least with carbon steels that I know of. A high carbon steel is harder, holds a better edge and, according to some, takes a better edge.

I use carbon steel because I think they look cool. If you are willing to do the upkeep and like the ~°*AESTHETIC*°~ , I highly recommend them. Nothing wrong with stainless at all, but know what you're buying and know that, unlike with carbon steel where price can vary widely on many factors, price usually dictates quality.

I have a serious problem, /ck/. I keep going to second hand stores to buy old and abused knives and then I spend 2 hours sharpening each one until they're sharp as a razor (and they tend to stay sharp as a razor for a long time). At this rate I'll eventually be proficient enough to start making money off of it.

>>8381271
Because they actually know what they're talking about when it comes to knives unlike this weeaboo circle jerk.

Just ordered victorinox chefs knife. Did I fuck up?

>>8382252
You did fine.

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What are /ck/'s thoughts on these sort of sharpeners? Do they work? How do you even use them? I bought one on a whim from some Chinese shop (a red one which I now realize is far more coarse)

>>8382411
Spyderco sharp maker. It sharpens the 420hc, 1095, s30v, s35vn knives that I own and it's easy as fuck to use.

>>8382802
In addition, I use 3M 3000 and 5000 grit trizact paper as a strop.

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>>8381043
Good for beginners.

>>8381043
Budget? Location?

y u give us nothing

>>8381076
am member on here, holla

>>8383884
>Budget? Location?

~$150
West Coast

>not a good cook
>buy cheap 15$ knife kit for kitchen
>dishwasher

had them for under 2 months and they're already getting rust spots. what gives?

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Reposting this here because I'm dumb:

I moved in with my girlfriend about 4 months ago and she only has really bad knives.

For Christmas I want to buy her a decent knife to make her life cooking for us a lot easier.

What's a good knife to buy her on a budget?

I read that this Mercer is the best for the money, but I know nothing about these things. (https://www.amazon.com/Mercer-Cutlery-Genesis-Forged-Chefs/dp/B000OOQZMY)

Anything you guys could do to help me would me a HUGE help. Thanks you.

>>8384017
>>8383967

that thing is meme tier but the normal Mercer knives are just fine

>>8383995
those are ok but so are the premium Chicago knives and they're cheaper but the same quality.

you don't need to spend more than $20-30 for a really very good chef's knife these days, although you can spend more anytime you want. at Wal Mart the secret is to skip the bottom tiers and buy the most expensive non-celebrity branded knife on a line.

this
https://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Cutlery-Ashland-7-75-Inch-Protector/dp/B009GV0PG8/
or
https://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Cutlery-Walnut-Tradition-8-Inch/dp/B0000BYEJ8/
or this

>>8381997
That's why you buy the expensive wal*mart knife, n00b.

after you get over about $40-50 for a knife, everything about it is simply a style or preference chioce, performance is a given. You're buying sizzle at that point, which is fine, just don't be confused about that fact

>>8384017
Budget, desired shape and steel?
I guess you want a regular chefs knife, nothing special like a nakiri?
Are you planning to sharpen the knife in the future?
How long do you want it to be?

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>>8381043
This came in the mail a few weeks ago. Love it.Sharp as fuck out of the box and looks kinda cool.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toshna161.html

>>8381043
What is the proper way to hold a knife, in /ck/s opinion?

>>8384112
How's the handle? I'm thinking about getting a Nakiri myself, most likely carbon steel. But I've never had a handle like this and coming from my current knives, the Tojiro HQ handle looks like it'd be perfect for me.
Sadly there's no carbon steel version of that knife and I'm not sure whether I'd be happy with these pretty unergonomic looking japanese handles...

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>>8384112
How much did you dish out for that Nakiri?

>>8384131
I thought the same thing, being used to western handles on my other knives, but this was surprisingly very comfortable. I find no issues with it whatsoever.

I only use it for veggies, so it's not an all purpose knife, but I've had no ergonomic/handling issue at all.

Like I said, surprisingly comfortable. I've read that they should be oiled regularly, in addition to (obviously) not letting water sit on them, so there is a little more "work" involved in owning one, but the sharpness and feel of them (in my opinion) makes it worth the extra work.

>>8384149
I'm in Canada, and I ordered some oil with it as well, so it came to almost $100 CDN,including shipping.

Well worth it, IMO.

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>>8384149
This is the oil I got.

>>8384155
Well they're supposedly much easier to sharpen, so you'll probably get some of the time back later.
Thanks for your opinion, I guess I'll just have to try it out.
Hope you'll have fun with your new knife

>>8384175
From what I hear yea. I'll find out once it seems a little dull (still a laser, at this point).

Thanks!

>>8384017
Everyone has Mercer at the fine dinning restaurant I work at.

I just got the Amazon knife set for $20

>>8384319
most common at my property is korin, followed by wusthof. shoutout to the bistro cs with the tojiros.
i'm the guy with the takedas.

>>8383907
>West Coast

As in US? Check out Gesshin Uraku at JKI. A good budget option western handle/style but carbon blade is Fujiwara FKH. There are really a ton of other options if you search around.

>>8384112
Tojiro Shirogami? The quality on these aren't very good. And you can get them on ebay direct from Japan for around $60 CAD. Also fuck CKTG.
>>8384131
It is fully carbon.

>>8384478
The ones with a handle from the HQ series are stainless, that's why I asked about the handle on this one, as I just can't believe that they are comfortable.

Any recommendations for a carbon steel nakiri with either a western, or at least a black handle for around 100€?

I inherited an old as fuck chef's knife made in West Germany. I tried getting it professionally sharpened but it dulled within a few weeks. Not sure if I should try to rehabilitate it or get a new knife

>>8384696
Post pic.

I am in Taiwan and going to Japan soon. Should I buy something here?

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My company gave me pic related for Christmas. Apparently it's a "tomato knife"? Is this a thing people use? Or are the Japs just crafty merchants?

Why not just use a sharp fucking knife to cut tomatoes?

>>8386000
>Why not just use a sharp fucking knife to cut tomatoes?
the same reason you use a serrated knife for bread. It's easier.

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I wonder if Mr. Itou's knives are any good

http://japanesechefsknife.com/Page3.html

>>8384553
Ah now I get what you mean, the DP series is called the HQ series in Europe.

So you're looking for a western or black J-handled Nakiri? It's kind of a tough find because there aren't many Western handled nakiris out there and the budget ones are most often light ho-wood handles. I don't think I can even find a black handled all carbon one, just dark brown. I know Tanaka has very cheap Nakiris with black western handles, but they aren't carbon.

Check out:
-Takeo Murata (Buho), cuttingedge had them but they're out of stock
-Moritaka (you can order direct from Japan and it's very cheap)
-Zakuri (only if you're really on a budget, I can't find the Nakiri on my sources though)

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>>8386355
Might as well do some pics then

>>8384017

I'd get the stamped Mercer Millennia instead and save some money.

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>>8386361

>>8384553
>>8386355
Oh also check out http://www.cleancut.se/butik/knivmodeller/gronsaksknivar

They have some nice Shiro Kamo nakiris for a good price and other options to look at.

>>8386355
Thanks a lot m8, just looked through the ones you posted.
Regarding budget, I'm currently a student, so I'd like to keep it as cheap as possible, but as expensive as necessary.

The Moritaka looks really dope, but isn't a hardness of 64-65 rockwell a little high? It'd be my first carbon steel knife, pretty much my first good knife alltogether, so sharpening and taking care of the knife will be new for me anyway. Don't that hard steels tend to chip really easy? Or is it an okay choice for a newby?

I stumbled over Zakuri as well and their pricing is pretty lowkey. Their Bunka looks dope as fuck as well...
What's wrong with them that you only recommend them, if I'm on a really tight budget?

The Murata looks really, really cool, but I'm not sure whether I'll be able to afford that. This is the same one, isn't it?
http://moritakahamonoen.ocnk.net/product/35
I still got 1200 yen on zenmarket (an import service), so this might be reasonable priced I guess?

>>8386513
Oh god I'm a retard. I completely confused Murata and moritaka in the last part. Got me a link to a japanese site that sells the Murata stuff?

Should I buy knives online, or find a store? In the UK (London).

I'm thinking of buying a Wusthof Classic; the one my family has doesn't have the Trident branding. Is this an off brand type version?

Also, what length should I get? 20cm?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/W%C3%BCsthof-CLASSIC-Cook-s-knife-4582/dp/B00009ZK08/ref=sr_1_1/254-3494788-4020522?ie=UTF8&qid=1482193172&sr=8-1&keywords=wusthof+20cm

>>8386355
Woah, Murata looks pretty promising. These look pretty dank, but I'm not sure whether they are the same knife, as the name "takeo" is missing in some of the offerings and the embossed writing is different.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/buwena16.html (2 Kanji)
http://www.finejapanesekitchenknives.com/murata-san.php (4 Kanji)
http://www.feineklinge.at/produkte/kuechenmesser/hocho_im_westlichen_design/85-murata_hocho (3 Kanji)

Especially the price of the latter is pretty great, but I never heard from the shop and I'm kind of hesitant, since I don't know whether it's the same knife... Can you help me out here? Because that's pretty much exactly what I've been looking for

>>8386513
>>8386816
No worries I was pretty bored. So, why a Nakiri as the first one if I may ask? A Gyuto is way more versatile and many prefer the longer sizes they come in. I actually do have a Bunka and even that it more versatile than a Nakiri.

I haven't used a much harder knife so I can only answer theoretically, people prefer the performance and edge retention of high rockwell ones.

The Zakuris are a good deal but the fit and finish is reported to be not that good. Actually, people have also had problems with the Moritaka knives. I was more thinking the cheaper Moritaka which is only 60 HRC: http://moritakahamonoen.ocnk.net/product/17

I'm not sure on Japanese Murata sellers, and I'm not sure if those differ (because I can't read Kanji). I'd head over to kitchenknifeforums.com and shoot all the questions you asked me to them, they're way more experienced than me and they have a form you can fill out for suggesting a knife. They're also super helpful.

>>8387019
Ran out of room, my guess is that it's cheaper because it was made by a different blacksmith than Takeo himself? The actual blacksmith that made the knife affects the pricing significantly sometimes.

>>8387019
I already got a regular kitchen knife and after christmas probably another one (a zwilling Pro most likely). I don't want a carbon knife for that for now though. I got no issue with taking care of carbon steel after actually cooking, but if I only cut up a lemon for some ice tea, I don't want to oil that shit up or something.
I always liked these chinese cleavers (for veggies), but I don't want a 700g-1kg knife. A Nakiri seems like a good alternative to me. Also I really like the way they look, although Bunkas look pretty rad as well.
I'm using a lot of veggies (I eat really, really few meat) for the stuff I cook and want to cook in the future, so I guess a Nakiri will come in handy at times.

I just wrote a mail to the cheap seller from austria and the guys from zenmarket, maybe they can tell me some more. If that doesn't work out, I'll probably look into the forum and ask there I guess.
Thanks for your help so far, really helped me out a lot!

>>8386741
That trident "branding" wears off after a while.

That said, knives are like shoes, never order online unless you already know you like the brand.

>>8381587
All you care for is how sharp the knife is? What about balance? What about handle conform? Grip?

>>8381451

It's just a matter of preference

A lot of Japanese homes only use a santoku

A lot of Chinese homes only use a meat cleaver

I almost exclusively use a santoku (and a paring knife)

>>8381043
>General

>>8381257
>Stainless steel is a much better steel for kitchen cutlery.
>Stainless steel is a much better steel
>Stainless steel is

People who literally don't know a single fucking thing about the subject should keep their nonsense to themselves.

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>>8387488
>A lot of Chinese homes only use a meat cleaver

You seem to be confusing a chinese cook's knife with a meat cleaver.

Chinese knives might look like a cleaver at a casual glance, but they're very thin and light like most chef's knives, santokus, etc. Pic related. this is nowhere near as thick as a meat cleaver.

>>8388636

that's you, because almost without exception stainless cutlery steels have MORE carbon in them than carbon steels.

>pwned

>>8381341
>>8381403

Relatively pure carbon steels are neither intrinsically harder or softer than highly alloyed stainless steels.

Rather, pure carbon steels can be heat treated to a higher hardness range than most (but not all) stainless cutlery steels, and tend to resist microscopic apex chipping better at those higher hardness ranges.

Since wear resistance is largely irrelevant to a kitchen knife (since almost 100% of the wear will be from cutting board contacts), and not much toughness is needed on a kitchen knife that won't be used on bones, it is then sensible to optimize the blade for minimizing it's propensity to microscopically chip or roll at the apex from cutting board contacts.

This is achieved by having a very high hardness and by minimizing the (non iron) carbide content, thus relatively pure carbon steels are nearly ideal.

There also happen to be a couple of stainless steels that behave very similarly to pure carbon steels and can be made almost as hard: AEB-L is the best known amongst them, and was designed specifically to essentially be a stainless version of a carbon steel.

To really see this, look at Japanese kitchen knife forums and see how people complain about their Tojiro DPs micro-chipping more than their pure carbon steel blades because VG-10 has less apex stability than the White and Blue paper steels.

>>8388648

Please stop trying to talk about subjects you know absolutely nothing about.

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>>8388661
>BOOM HEADSHOT

sucks to be stupid, but you'll get over it

>>8388750

Why do you think those more highly alloyed steels have more carbon in them? What do you think the effect of that higher carbon content is? What do you believe the relevance of those effects to kitchen cutlery is?

Hint: You may want to start by Googling carbide formation and the carbon saturation line...

>>8381921
Good job

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I have a $50 budget to buy my GF a knife for Christmas, what should I get?

>>8390123
>>8390123

Go on amazon and look for high grade steel, go to a knife store and pay for them to sharpen it, should stay sharp for a long time.

Fiddy bucks is a bit slim though, i'd say garage sale but this time of year most people arent going to do it because of the cold.

>>8390149
>i'd say garage sale
fuck man, what a disgusting suggestion
to give a Christmas gift of a kitchen knife to a girlfriend bought at the garage sale,
very fucking romantic,
are you insane or plain stupid?

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>>8390123
>my GF
anon, is she on the left ?. cute

>>8390123
>I have a $50 budget to buy my GF a knife for Christmas, what should I get?
With this little info hard to tell anon.
What size, what blade length of knife you are thinking of getting her.

Are her existing knifes are of the same brand (set) or mix of various brands qualities.
Are any of them good/decent or all are crappy knifes?

You see it's not so easy to just say get this knife and you are good to go.

I'm not knife expert, but I really like my 4" blade length
ZWILLING J.A. Henckels Professional "S" 4" Paring Knife.
I use a lot.
Maybe this will be good choice.
If you give more info maybe some pro-cooks or chefs or owners of better brand knifes owners will help you out.

But if all her knifes are crappy and not near quality of this brand I'm sure will enjoy working with it.

Post back what you got her.

P.S. or is she on the right ? (in the picture)

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>>8390149
>>8390175
>>8390317
Nah, pic related. She only has these incredibly shitty knives her mom bought her when she moved to college 5 years ago, they can't even cut meat.

>>8390516
I could spend a bit more if I really can't get anything good for $50.

>>8390175
>search for something perfect instead of just buying whatever the top seller on Amazon is
>make the effort to get it cleaned up and sharpened
>present something unique instead of a fucking Fibrox that every starting cook has
I'd say you're the one that's just plain stupid.

Boys, I'm getting her a vintage pearl necklace too, relax.

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Anons, I like to share something with you that might for some of you be of great help, (as it is for me).

Besides this knife >>8390317, I also use a lot scissors in my kitchen for food prep.
Yes, scissors, but not those typical kitchen/food scissors that are thick and heavy, I found them to be good only to cut up chicken,etc, I have a pair but I don't use them.

The scissors I use are exactly as in the picture, 8" long (blades are 4" long). Great German steel German made scissors.
That 8" length is just perfect. I use them exclusively for food to cut green onions,dill,other veggies,even pizza slices,etc,.
I used other brand before,some cheap chinese crap, but the blades were very thin and flimsy, so I got this brand.
They are light and blades are also on thin site but they are sturdy and the steel is very solid.

They work great replacing knife and no need to set up cutting board.
You just cut straight into the pot or salad bowl or frying pan.
Of course I'm not suggesting scissors as a Christmas gift, but for your own use.

TRY IT.

>>8390533
you are so stupid that I'm not even going respond to you anymore.
your IQ level is really very low for me to engage with sub human like you.

>>8390566
Just like to add that the angle of the blades on those scissors are great (at least for me), some scissors have more straight blades and handles, you can try it out what feels best for you.

>>8390573
Eat shit, fuckhead. If you'd turn up your nose at something someone bought for you because it didn't come gift-wrapped from Sears then you're a fucking piece of trash.

>>8390603
butthurt homo leaf detected

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Out of these ones which is the best? Or is their a better one for a similar price point? Just looking for an alright entryish level knife. (Sorry for the big picture not sure how else to show them)

>>8390759
i would look at the garage sales instead

>>8390123
Tojiro DP 180mm Gyuto or Santoku

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Just ordered the 8" Vic. Rosewood (Not OP) I have no clue why they would sell a non full-tanged chefs knife, fuck that fibrox shit. Got free shipping on it should be here on the 24th.

>>8391859

Because the "full tang" is old marketing garbage from decades ago and doesn't mean shit these days.

In a professional kitchen the fibrox handles actually last longer than the wood ones because the plastic stands up to moisture and washing better than the wood does, and there are no rivets to possibly come loose. The wood certainly looks better though, I'll give you that.

>>8391865
How is a full/partial tang marketing garbage? If that handle breaks it's more easily replaceable and should be more balanced than a knife made with a polymer handle.

>>8384319
because its probably full of dumb former culinary students who don't know anything else

I bet they're all dull as shit too

>>8390775
How can I identify a good knife at garage sales? Are there certain brands I should look for?

>>8382230
Not if you take two hours for each one, you won't (make money off it). I have recently gotten a belt sander and a cotton cloth buffing wheel and that baby can bring a knife from saddle like bluntness to shaving edge in literally less than a minute. I have also successfully thinned several of my kitchen knives with it and that works beautifully, too.

>>8392335

Enjoy your de-tempered edges!

File: IMG_20160725_161052.jpg (2MB, 2432x3286px)

2MB, 2432x3286px

>>8392422
Definitely my favourite knife.

>>8392426
Virgin detected

>>8392433
what?

>>8392422
What keyboard is that? I like it

>>8392452
First day on the 'chon kiddo?

>>8392422
>>8392426
Masakage Shimo Gyuto? Definitely it's own completely unique pattern. You like the f&f on it?

>>8392791
I'm very happy with the f&f, everything is as it should be. Though I have heard another anon say his had piss poor edge retention. Not a problem I have though.

>>8392485
keyboard is a filco magitouch, but the keys are custom after-market.

>>8392901
My Yuki's f&f isn't that great (I'll probably work on it a bit) and it lost it's out of the box edge much sooner than I expected. With that said it is a cheaper model.

I'm going to work on the geometry with some slight sanding, but not having stones yet means I can't sharpen it :(

>>8393139
>Buys $200+ gyuto
>Doesn't own a single sharpening stone

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

>>8393335
but has smooth concrete slab by his patio