Serious question to vegans: why do you freakin fake the food

>>8193410
Its primarily marketed for "vegans" that want to enjoy the newest health fad I guess. And to convert nonvegans.

>>8193410
Imitation food eases the sudden transition to a purely vegan diet. Also pretty good for a prank.

>it's yet another transubstantiation autism thread

who gives a shit

>>8193410
its to try and convert others

went to my brothers place on promise of a nice taco spread wed make, so we prep all teh veg and wait for his now ex gf to bring the chicken

fucking brings tofu chicken and we literally look at her like shes the biggest pos, tried to press her new fad of eating vegan diet

shit tasted absolutely awful, and I like tofu but I pair it with meat or just use it in miso

meat imitation products are a fucking blight on this earth in taste and in purpose

>>8193410
because vegans are mentally deficient and need to have fool themselves that they are eating real food.

>>8193410
Maybe they just want to fit in.

Fuck if I know. Want to eat vegan? Buy an Indian cookbook or Vegetarian Chinese cookbook.

File: tofu3.jpg (170KB, 1645x925px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 1645x925px

>>8193410

I didn't become vegan because I didn't like how meat tasted, I became vegan because I didn't like that I was prioritizing my taste preferences over the lives of animals.

So if I can make stuff that tastes like meat, but also sits right with me in terms of ethics, why not?

Pic related, just made a tofu steak

>>8194751
As long as you're aware that nobody is fooled by your loophole but you.

If you have a moral stance against eating meat, I don't see how it makes it better that you try to fork tofu and vegetables into the shape of slaughtered animals.

That's some stalker/ serial killer shit.

But you know what's best.

You and your moral dilemmas.

(You)

>>8193410
Just because you are morally apposed to eating meat doesn't mean you can't miss the taste or texture of it, so imitating it is the best option.

I don't understand why people always ask such a stupid question. I'm not a vegan or vegetarian and I still can comprehend it.

>>8194751
you got any this on how to press tofu at home?

>>8194790
>nobody is fooled by your loophole but you
What loophole is there? It's a simple concept.

>>8194794
>I have a moral objection against murder
>but if I stab this mannequin instead, it reminds me of what I'm missing
>I don't see a problem with this

>>8194801
See
>>8194809

>>8194809
>>8194815
That sounds like some serious 'if you like killing people in video games that means you like killing people in real life' retard logic.

>>8193410

Meat has a nice texture.

Caramelized carbohydrates have a nice flavour.

File: before_press.jpg (126KB, 1645x925px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 1645x925px

>>8194809
> I have a moral objection against murder
> I like to play Grand Theft Auto
> I don't see a problem with this

top kek

>>8194800
I just bought a tofu press, actually, this was my first use of it. I'll dump some pics of the process. This is before pressing:

File: after_press.jpg (115KB, 1645x925px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 1645x925px

>>8194834

I wrapped it in a paper towel to try and keep the shape together (prevent sides from blowing out). This is after pressing, for comparison.

>>8194801
>>8194809
Im not the tofu poster. But I think you guys are missing his point completely. His argument is to do no harm to animals while limiting his taste experiences as little as possible.

I know it is counterproductive to talk down to people, but I really don't get what you don't understand. Are you sure you are not just getting your jimmies rustled because someone has an opinion differing from yours?

>>8194825
Do you try and emulate video games in real life? That would be the closer anology.

File: after_press_unwrap.jpg (108KB, 1645x925px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 1645x925px

>>8194841

Unwrapped, you can see it blew out a bit (I didn't wrap it with paper towel until it already started to crack, unfortunately)

File: first_baste.jpg (195KB, 1645x925px) Image search: [Google]

195KB, 1645x925px

>>8194850

I made a marinade out of sweet chili sauce, sesame oil, tamari, sriracha, garlic and ginger powder, then basted the tofu in it liberally

File: before_bake.jpg (207KB, 1645x925px) Image search: [Google]

207KB, 1645x925px

>>8194856

Next, wrapped tightly in foil and baked in the toaster oven at 350F

>>8194834
Nice try, but a video game is a completely separate world.

In this world, the real world, there are people with a moral objection to eating animals, but they will form their food into the battered corpse of said animal.

This is not a game. This is a real thing people are doing, and they are honestly trying to validate it.

>>8194834

I have no animosity against vegetarians, but that seems a poorly engineered product.

What's with all the springs which are impossible to clean? Especially the ones next to the food. Why require two wing nuts to be tightened? Why use a material with that much flex?

File: second_baste.jpg (457KB, 1645x925px) Image search: [Google]

457KB, 1645x925px

>>8194858

I should mention that I let the marinade sit on the tofu, uncovered, for around ten minutes while the oven preheated, and ended up basting right before wrapping it in foil, too. I also made sure to baste all sides. It ended up puffing back up a bit, but it shrunk again while cooking.

I baked it for about 75 minutes, taking it out to unwrap, baste all sides (flipping the tofu over), and re-wrap in foil at 30 minutes, 60 minutes, and then a final baste at 75 minutes before letting it rest about 5 minutes.

Pic related is at 30 minutes, after basting.

>>8194863
Erm, how is a steak the form of an animal? Even a chicken carcass only resembles the damn live bird with some imagination and if you decide to play with it on the kitchen top. I have no intention of turning veggie, but I've seen peoples faces when they're confronted with a bird that still has it's feet on. The vast majority of people prefer that their meat does not resemble what it came from.

File: third_baste.jpg (413KB, 1645x925px) Image search: [Google]

413KB, 1645x925px

>>8194882

This is at 60 minutes, after basting again.

>>8194863
What do you think does more harm to the animal? Shaping tofu into a steak or killing the animal to make a steak?

>>8194849
What's the difference between shooting a digital person and eating fake meat? It's the same thing; absolutely harmless.

File: bite.jpg (162KB, 1645x925px) Image search: [Google]

162KB, 1645x925px

>>8194894

Here you can see 75 minutes, after the final baste: >>8194751

Pic related is what it looks like after being cut

>>8194876

It was the cheapest one on amazon, there are probably better ones available but I didn't do much research admittedly. As far as cleaning it, it seems to clean fine in the dishwasher.

As far as the wingnuts? You want even pressure over the tofu, and that sounds like the minimum number required without a more complex/expensive design?

>>8194863
I think you should stop posting now. You are embarrasing yourself with every single argument.

>>8194886
BATTERED form of an animal.

As in, forming vegetables and beans into the shape of a well known meat product.

Don't get me wrong, I love tofu, and I love vegetables. But if you can be so nonchalant about eating faux-meat when you have a supposed moral obligation against it, I don't see why you can't just cross that thin, thin line and eat real meat.

You obviously have a taste for it. Just quit stabbing mannequins like a fuckin wackjob and go balls deep.

*I mean "you" in general, not personally.

>>8194900
Did the taste penetrate into the center of the tofu?

>>8194921
> I don't see why you can't just cross that thin, thin line and eat real meat.

Because what it looks like doesn't matter at all, what matters is whether it required killing an animal unecessarily.

>You obviously have a taste for it.

I literally said "I didn't become vegan because I didn't like how meat tasted". I love the taste of meat, I just don't prioritize my taste preferences over my ethical principles.

For the record, if I had a Star Trek-style Replicator and could materialize myself steak and blue cheese, I would in a heart-beat. My being vegan has absolutely nothing to do with liking or not liking meat.

>>8194921
You are missing the entire point of not eating meat. It is to minimize harm to the animal. The thin line you are referring to is the fundamental moral motive behind not vegetarianism/veganism.

>>8194926

Not into the center very much, but it penetrated surprisingly deeply around the edges, and the marinade got all over the plate and onto the cut pieces anyway, so it didn't matter much. The marinade was pretty strongly flavored too.

If I had more time, I would have actually let it sit in liquid marinade for a couple of hours, or at least braised it in marinade at the end, but IMO it tastes well enough as-is that I don't think it'd be worth the time/effort.

I've also got some potatoes in the oven, a big batch of beans I made yesterday, and leftover mochi my gf made, so this was more of an impulse food to test my new tofu press rather than something I necessarily wanted for dinner. Still, I'd give it a 6.5/10 on the scale of "raw medium-firm tofu" to "deep-fried Chinese ice-tofu tossed in cracksauce"

>>8194899
Yeah, eating fake meat is harmless, but your actions are flawed. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you honestly have a moral objection to murdering animals, why is it okay to pretend?

I'm not religious, but one of the commandments says Thou shall not commit adultery.
So instead of commiting adultery, you get a blowup doll that looks just like your neighbors wife and you fuck that instead?

Do you think God would be fooled by your loophole? Do you think he'd look at his big ol' "book of rules" and say "well I'll be, you got me. It's not explicitly forbidden, so you're off the hook"?

No, you weird little faggot. No one is fooled. If you have a real moral objection to eating meat, you wouldn't fake it. You're just showing the rest of the world that even you don't take your cause seriously .

>>8194955
> but your actions are flawed.

No, they're not. If your intention is to not eat animals, and instead you eat plant-based foods that vaguely resemble animals, you still are not eating animals. It's perfectly consistent.

>If you honestly have a moral objection to murdering animals, why is it okay to pretend?

For the same reason it's okay to pretend to kill people in video games but not in real life?

>>8194955
>No one is fooled

What do you mean "fooled"? Who is fooling who about what? I like savory, chewy things that caramelize and can be cut with a fork and knife - what part of that is "fooling" anyone?

> If you have a real moral objection to eating meat, you wouldn't fake it.

Meat in the abstract isn't the problem, it's the fact that an animal had to die to get it. If you remove the animal from the equation, then no, I wouldn't have a moral objection to eating meat.

>>8194942
Then don't eat animals. That's fine. Minimize the harm done to animals. That's fuckin admirable even.

But it's like masterbating to loli. Sure, you're not harming an actual child, but it makes it hard to take you and your cause seriously.

>>8194980

What is the cause in masturbating to loli?

Also, most meat products that people eat do not resemble the animal at all, at least in the US. What part of a pig does a "hot dog" come from? Why is "ground brown protein stuff" more indicative of a cow than TVP? We're not making tofu pig feet here.

>>8194921
I've battered plenty of animals: their fucking head and feet didn't fall off.

File: 1432608506133.jpg (76KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 600x600px

>>8193410
Same reason dykes use dildos.

>>8194995
Don't give me that shit. Look at the OP pic and tell me what they were going for.

There was another thread with a store selling a carton of "vegan eggs" that was anything but.

We all know what it's presented as. That's the whole point of its design. To mimic meat products.

>>8194999
You know goddamn well what I meant.we're arguing semantics here.

>>8195016
Why the fuck did they use a mortar and pestle? Just squeeze the bag, dunce
That whole thing could be one picture of the full grinder next to the bag

>>8194952
Next time poke long diagonal fork holes about 15 degrees from parallel to get the marinade to really penetrate through, its quick and easy but makes a HUGE difference when marinating

>>8195020
>That's the whole point of its design. To mimic meat products.

Yes, exactly, but why is that a problem as long as it doesn't actually require killing animals to do it? That's the whole point - not killing animals. It has nothing to do with the taste or texture or appearance of meat. Like I said, if I had a Star Trek replicator, I'd be eating a steak tonight. But I have self control and the ability to prioritize my ethical beliefs over my tastebuds, so I'm just making the tastiest things I can without it.

>>8195020
No, we're arguing the difference between preparing something in appearance and preparing something for the practicality of cooking and eating it. Your supposition would be that the appearance of something is mainly concerned with making not-meat look like meat, whilst I am pointing out that a great deal of the work done by butchers on meat focuses on appearance. Animals cook just fine with things like feet and heads attached- these are removed because they remind the coddled consumer where it comes from. If it is fine for us meat-eaters through the free market to opt for these features to be removed, what's the deal with vegetarians choosing how their food is presented? The market has determined that people buy more meat the less meat resembles any kind of animal and the more it resembles an abstract shape which you can't create without the training of a butcher.

File: tenderizer_needles.jpg (53KB, 720x960px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 720x960px

>>8195068

Good idea!

I was also considering one of those needle meat tenderizer things like pic related

>>8194955
>Do you think God would be fooled by your loophole? Do you think he'd look at his big ol' "book of rules" and say "well I'll be, you got me. It's not explicitly forbidden, so you're off the hook"?
Yep. If God says "thou shalt not murder" and you shoot a target dummy, you have followed God's command. You have not inflicted the harm God commanded you to avoid.

>>8195179

Also, have you seen the absurd lengths that Orthodox Jews go to "keep the Sabbath holy"? In Israel, they have elevators that are designed to hit every floor over and over again without human interaction, because the push the elevator button would be considered labor while just riding it would not.

>>8195202
You making a point? The bible says "don't work," their scholars say "pushing a button counts as work," so they don't push buttons. Meanwhile, the bible says "don't kill," and not even the craziest people in the world count dummies as people. You might have an argument if they considered boxing to be a violation, but as it is you're just spewing nonsense.

>>8194834
No wonder you don't like eating animals, you live like one.

>>8194809
This makes perfect sense, what are you trying to prove here?
Sublimation is a thing you know.

ITT:
People who are insecure like nine year olds.
"Ewww, vegetables"
"Eww, that tastes strange it's shit"

Let people enjoy their fucking food. Fucksticks.

>>8193410
I've always thought that the "imitation meat" stuff is awful, but off the top of my head:

Other people don't think it sucks?;

The substitutes tend to be healthy with a ton of protein;

What this anon said >>8194794.

What does it matter anyway it's not like it affects you?

>>8194825
Lol summed it up.

Eat what you like, but don't think for a moment that being a vegan or not makes you better than everyone else.

>>8193410
Serious answer: It's not really us. It's the commercial companies who try to market and sell them.

"You don't know what people want until you show them what they want" - Jobs

Personally I became a vegan without any transition. I just stopped eating meat. When I was served imitation meat, I was thinking, "What's wrong with you? If I stopped eating meat, why would you buy imitation meat?" I stopped eating meat because I disliked it.

The reason why some vegans eat imitation meat may be because they want the texture that meat has. Also note that imitation meat is healthier than meat.

File: Autism-Speaks-Logo.jpg (811KB, 1286x1254px) Image search: [Google]

811KB, 1286x1254px

>>8194790
>>8194863
>>8194809
>>8194921
>>8194955
>>8194980
>>8195020

>>8195881
>thinks meat is unhealthy
>cares what a dipshit who vegan'd his way to an early cancer grave has to say

because it tastes good.

>>8193410
Because the last thing veganism is about is food
Do you seriously belive that somebody who enjoys food would refuse to eat half of it?
No veganism is about showing you that you could still have your meat only made from soy and mushrooms and you are a stupid fuck for refusing to change (even tho it tastes nothing like real meat)
Plus globalists are trying to find a way to feed massive amounts of people and that involves reducing the quality and quantity of food and maximizing production and shelf life so you see this shit on tv all the time

>>8194751
Keke
That brick of burned soy looks absolutely disgusting to me
I like how soy being one single ingredient is still 80% of vegan diets, the Chinese got rich selling you morons pig feed

>>8194955
your pretty daft m8

>>8194794
I don't give a shit if you want to draw pictures of a happy family enjoying a barbecue and cry
It's the pushing it in everyone's faces that I hate
No it doesn't taste or feel like meat, you don't even know how meat tastes and feels like because you don't even eat meat

File: (6)maxresdefault.jpg (270KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

270KB, 1920x1080px

>>8194894
And this one is made with real cheese
Nottice how crunchy, oily and full of flavour it is
And it even has real vegetables inside

>>8195937
>I like how soy being one single ingredient is still 80% of vegan diets

All omnivores have cancer. There. I can also pull stats out of my ass.

>>8196000
All you can pull out of your ass is buthurt
Everyone knows vegan diets are 80% soy

>>8196007
I'm vegan and my diet is less than 1% soy. Must've missed a memo. Either way that means not everyone knows that.

>>8194790
Fucking this.

Vegans thought-processes are so twisted.

>>8195807
Where the fuck did anyone say "eww vegetables"? You do realize omnivores eat vegetables and fruits, and tofu (amazing, isn't it?) You're an idiot.

>>8195948
this looks fantastic- you got a recipe?

>>8196359
you need to buy provoletta wich is a type of cheese and the secret is to take it out of the package and leave it exposed in the fridge for a week since it dries the outside wich is key if you want a crunchy exterior and a soft inside
then you just grill it over coal simple as that, if its good cheese and you followed my instuctions you can grill it directly with no foil or anything just like you grill meat

>>8195881
>Also note that imitation meat is healthier than meat.

Ingredients in ground "tofurkey":
>Water, organic soy flour, expeller pressed non-GMO canola oil, vinegar, autolyzed yeast extract, vegan natural flavors, sea salt, granulated garlic, onion powder, spices, xanthan gum, gum arabic, non-GMO caramel coloring, dicalcium phosphate.

Ingredients in the Mary's Heritage Breed Turkey I've been buying for over 5 years:
>Turkey
Also, here's it's FAQS:
> Mary's Heritage Turkey
Pasture Raised
Heritage Breed
No Antibiotics Ever
No Preservatives
Gluten-Free
Raised Without Added Hormones
Step 5 - All Physical Alterations Prohibited
Fed a Non-GMO Vegetarian Diet: 65% Non-GMO Corn, 30% Non-GMO Soybean Meal, 5% Vitamins and Minerals
Fed No Animal By-Products

My food eats your food. And actually eats better food than you.

>>8193410
It's easier on people when I go over to their place- they don't have to change a recipe or accommodate me by making something different, just cook the fake meat the same way.

File: 1476435266579.jpg (46KB, 610x813px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 610x813px

>moral objection to animal products
There's not necessarily anything wrong with this in the current world where you can replace all the nutrients you need with artificial products, even though in the natural wild world it is eat or be eaten.
But in the same way with religions that can't assimilate with normal natural boundaries of social ethics, a vegan can't assimilate with omnivores. If you feel morally obligated to do something than anyone doing the opposite is naturally offending you and there is no way you aren't looking down of them.
This is why everyone who's been exposed to the "wild" hates vegans and muslims.

>>8193410
>why do you freakin fake the food of the common populace in vegan versions
Very simple: Cuisine develops over generations. It's far easier to just make traditional dishes with mock-meat substitutes than it is to reinvent the wheel. And there's a long tradition of doing this. Buddhist monks have been doing it in China for centuries.

I think the mistake many are making in this thread is that vegans are repulsed by the taste of meat. A handful might actually be, but most find it delicious. They're repulsed by the conditions under which that meat is raised and slaughtered. But that repulsion doesn't magically remove the deliciousness from animal foods. Chorizo is still delicious. So a chorizo like product that is in line with a vegan's ethics is something some of them will get excited about. Because now they can have chorizo tacos without crossing their ethical lines.

File: 16b.gif (2MB, 425x481px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 425x481px

>tfw you feed your vegan friends animal products like gelatin

>>8196421
Friend of mine in high school would cook pizzas for their family sometimes so that they could have not vegan shit, and he'd put a little bit of bacon under his vegan sister's toppings.

>>8193438
"we're having tacos... y-you bring the meat!"
low rent af

>>8194882
How big is that? Just wondering if that method is worth anyone's time. Can you marinate tofu?

>>8194921
Is this a joke? In one scenario an animal was slaughtered after a miserable life in filth, and in the other, none of that happened. How is that "a thin line"? I'm not any kind of a self restricted eater but this is ridiculous.

>>8195924
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81xnvgOlHaY

I'm a vegetarian but only because I hate the flavor of meat (except a handful of very specific cuts cooked in a very specific way I only trust myself or select friends and family to know how to make)

Where in the spectrum am I, /ck/?

>>8196760
you can't really think cows and goats and sheep live miserable lives?

Chickens, sure, pigs, arguably yeah, but cows have a sick life

>>8196773
Leaning towards "profoundly"

>>8196773
Damn, if you're that picky about meat, what about eggs? It seems like you'd have to have a degree in organic chemistry to cook eggs like you'd want.

>>8194751
>So if I can make stuff that tastes like meat
Thats just it, tofu will never taste like meat no matter what shape it is in.

>>8196787
It's only with meat, that's why I made the autism joke. Everything else I can tolerate some fuckups but with meat the tiniest nitpick makes it inedible for me.

I'm used to being a "social vegetarian" because it's easier to tell your mother in law that you don't eat meat than her food belongs in the trash.

>>8194955
He's either eating and harming animals or he isn't. There's no gray area here. You're trying too hard. This guy's goal is to not eat animals and he is not doing so. I understand that you may dislike vegetarians, but this guy is perfectly meeting his standard.

>>8196775
How retarded are you? Mass produced dairy products come from cows kept in fucking awful conditions. I'm not even vegan btw

File: b3060016.png (356KB, 606x490px) Image search: [Google]

356KB, 606x490px

http://www.dallasobserver.com/restaurants/vegan-brisket-its-a-thing-at-this-new-dallas-vegan-restaurant-and-its-pretty-good-8816822
>vegan brisket
REEEEEEEEEEEE

>>8198430
breadfruit mock fried chicken sounds pretty good tbqh

i'm not even a vegetarian but if given the choice between a veggie burger or some low quality chicken butt hot dog or fatty beef burger i'll take the veg because it tastes better

>>8198417
cows in most countries that aren't the usa have decent good lives

>>8198417
I think you are the retarded one, they're large sacks of meat. That they live to be milked is a luxury for them

It's so funny when vegans pretend they're real men, worthy of respect or pride. Can't wait to watch them die when society collapses.

>>8193410
3 reasons.

1) It helps ease the transition for new vegans, who are not yet used to a vegan diet

2) It is easy money from people who jump on the newest fad, and want to call themselves vegans but don't have the conviction to change anything about their lives

3) There are plenty of tasty non-vegan dishes... if you can find the *rare* one that can be well imitated, why not enjoy it?

I've been vegan for long enough that my palette has changed and I don't really feel cravings for processed stuff like fake meat / fake cheese / etc. anymore, and mostly live off of dishes made from whole foods.

But my gf occasionally makes a vegan version of mac and cheese that is awesome, and I don't see any reason not to enjoy it.

Why does it bother you so much? You know you can still eat your steaks and burgers and shit, even if we eat fake versions of it, right?
So serious question, why do you make these kinds of stupid threads instead of just eatin your meat and shit in silence?

>>8196752
that's the only to attempt to cover up the play-doh taste.

>>8198819

> Eating your mom's tendies, or taking your food stamps or service-job income to the store to buy meat that someone else cut and packaged, from an animal you neither raised nor killed, makes you a man

If society collapsed then yeah, I'd probably go back to eating meat. I'm a pretty good shot and have skinned animals before, I'm plenty aware of how to survive on game since I come from a rural area originally. But you and I we don't live as hunter-gatherers and society still exists. And so long as society still exists, the different between a vegan and an omnivore isn't survival skills, it's what you exchange fiat currency at the grocery store for.

How does my having the self control to change what I put into my mouth make me less of a man? Would I be more of a man if I lived off of hungry-man meals instead of stockpiling dried beans?

>>8199616
>city faggot pretends he could be a man if he wanted to
>lies about prior experience

kys faggot
you're an aberration

File: beyondburger.png (933KB, 925x775px) Image search: [Google]

933KB, 925x775px

>>8200048
> city faggot

At least if that was the case I could go to whole foods and get some of those crazy bleeding vegan burgers

>>8198924
It's the thought process I don't understand. The steps that lead up to this decision.

It's not just substituting vegan ingredients for a traditionally non-vegan meal. You're shaping your food and advertising it as a meat product, but without actual meat. If I had a strong moral stance against the slaughtering of animals, I would avoid advertising my product in a way that draws parallels between my food and animal slaughter. To me, that's the whole fucking point of going vegan.

I don't see how anyone could take you or your cause seriously if you can be so nonchalant about it. You seem more like a hipster who "cares" enough to protest, but not to make actual changes.

>>8200671
For the record, when I say "you", I mean it generally, not you personally.

>>8194790
...Because making a tofu steak doesn't require animals to die? How are you this retarded.

>>8200343
I just know that bullshit had a successful kickstarter

What does tofu taste like, anon-kun?

>>8201238
Keep clinging to that, princess.

You can't claim to be against animal murder on one hand and then replicate that animals corpse with another. You're deluding yourself.

You know how rape culture is a thing in the Tumblr world?

Well you're contributing to meat culture.

It'd be like an anti rape acrivist claiming they're against rape, yet they constantly make one liners about raping each other on Xbox live.

Then they try to argue "lol, I'm not actually raping someone, why are you so mad?"

>>8201420
>You know how rape culture is a thing in the Tumblr world?
>Well you're contributing to meat culture.
what
>unironically comparing your retarded argument to that of a tumblrite

>>8201420
>You can't claim to be against animal murder on one hand and then replicate that animals corpse with another.
That's an absurd statement. The whole point is that you're against killing/mistreating animals, not against cuisine. Delicious food is really easy when you have animal products. It's a bit more effort without. But the hang up is not deliciousness, it's about what went into creating that deliciousness. Create it without cruelty and there is no harm, which is the crux of the matter.

>>8202717
>Create it without cruelty and there is no harm

That's impossible. What do you think happens to the animals when land is cleared to create a farm field? What do you think happens to small animals when the harvesting machinery drives through? What about the effects of the pesticides and fertilizer runoff?

We humans necessarily have to harm other life in order to eat. Doesn't matter if it's a steak or a plate of greens.

>>8202724
You are correct. But there's a difference between indirect and direct causes of suffering. It's impossible to live without causing indirect suffering, but one can choose to avoid direct causes, and that is a legit ethical stance.

Look at history. There have been various vegetarian groups based around philosophy and/or religion throughout history. But veganism arose specifically in response to industrialization. Industrialization made it easy to live without consuming animal products while it increased the amount of animal suffering involved in their production. Thus it created a new ethical line some did not want to cross.

>>8202794
>Thus it created a new ethical line some did not want to cross.

What always puzzled me about this is the fact that one can still eat meat while avoiding industrialized meat production aka "factory farming". There's no need to avoid meat altogether when one can simply avoid the industrialized process.

I would also argue that veganism is largely a luxury that depends on industrialization. If you turned the clock back to before industrialization it would be nearly impossible to survive as a vegan. But these days--if you're lucky enough to live in a developed country--you can walk into a supermarket any time of year and buy a healthy assortment of foods that make a vegan diet possible. But all that depends on industrialized farming and modern logistic (shipping) technology. A vegan is dependent on the very system they claim to want to avoid, but few of them bother to think about the process that brings them tomatoes in January.

>>8202801
>I would also argue that veganism is largely a luxury that depends on industrialization.
Completely agree. It's a response to industrialized farming. And being in the position to ponder the ramifications of your diet doesn't necessarily mean you're privileged, but the privileged are more likely to do so than the underprivileged.

That doesn't undermine the validity of it, though. I eat meat, eggs and dairy very rarely, and a big part of the reason why is because I don't want to support an industry I think is not just cruel, but fucking disgusting. And it's very easy for me to do without because beans, grains and vegetables are cheap as fuck, and widely available.

For many vegans I'd wager part of the motivation is not wanting to have anything to do with industrialized production of animal products. Not just because of the suffering their production results in. I have an older colleague who has been strictly vegan for almost 40 years. He never proselytizes about it, but once while trying to get an understanding of what makes the guy tick I asked him: "Is it that you don't trust that industrially produced animal products are actually safe to eat?" His response was: "That's a big part of it."

>>8195024
Where's the fun in that?