Ask the Butcher

At the golf course I work at, we make our own beef jerky, and we use top round. What cut do you think works best for jerky?

>>8132081
Not OP but for jerky you wanted the leanest cuts, thus top round. So anything super lean works, don't want fat in your jerky.

Has working as a butcher changed your eating habits as far as cuts of meat you avoid buying or go out of your way to eat?

What cut of beef do I use for a good crock pot pot roast? I've seen several mentioned and used all different types also but what is actually meant to be used? Also pulled pork? What cut is that?

>>8132107
Beef: Chuck roll
Pork: pork butt, sometimes called boston butt

>>8132059
Is there really any difference between dry aged and regular beef?

Is it possible to dry age, say, whole rib eye at home without special equipment?

>>8132081
Top round is a good choice for jerky. As >>8132096 has mentioned, typically jerky is made from lean cuts. Bottom round and top round are typically what I would recommend for jerky. As dumb as it sounds, you should also get select meat rather than choice meat when you're making jerky. Since you're dehydrating the meat and you're looking for little fat, choice does not make a better selection because it has additional marbling and fat associated with its grading.

>>8132106
Since working in the business, I've actually increased the number of meats I'm willing to eat. When I was younger, I only thought that only a few of the cuts were worth any merit. However, since learning more about meat I've realized how many different things each meat can be used for. Once you realize what each cut is good for, it's interesting to know that many of the cuts that we regard as "low" or "shit" can actually be tasteful and delicious when prepared properly (nothing new to /ck/ for sure, but something I never thought about when I was young).

I still don't eat much marrow, nor do I end up eating much offal, tongue, etc. However, I know that they can be delicious under the right circumstances.

>>8132107
As >>8132111 has mentioned, a good traditional crock pot roast would be a chuck roast. Chuck roasts have long and stringy muscles which rip apart nicely. Other good choices are rump roasts, bottom round roasts, and bolar roasts.

As far as the pro is concerned, pork butts/boston butts, picnic shoulders, and boneless shoulders can all be great for pulled pork.

>>8132117
All of the aged beef I've had has been incredible. It is much more tender and the flavor is "fuller" (richer). It's essentially taking the flavor of a 5 inch steak into the area of a 4 inch steak (or slightly smaller). This analogy might not make sense- so if I need to explain it better, let me know (I only get so many characters...)

(I'll continue your dry aging question in my next post)

>>8132138
>>8132111
thank you from cow pig guy

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

>>8132117
>>8132138

If you wanted to age a whole subprimal at home, it would theoretically be possible. I know a lot of people who have tried to do it and have failed miserably. The problem with trying to dry age meat at home is that to do it properly, you need to have constant air flow, a constant humidity, a constant temperature, and as little outside contamination as possible. That means you can't be using the refrigeration unit that you're aging your meat in for anything else. Whenever you open the door, you're allowing outside humidity, outside temperature, and whatever bacteria, spores, etc. that is floating around to layer itself on the meat.

The other problem is that it's often difficult for someone to allow their meat to rest for the full duration of the aging process. Our store allows our meat to rest for *at least* 4 weeks before we prepare the meat for our case. If possible, we allow 5-6 weeks to age our meat. It's not always possible because we sell the meat very quickly once it goes up for sale (even though it ends up being around $30/lb).

If you were going to buy a ribeye to age... I would recommend getting a 2x2 ribeye, lip on w/ chine

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The butcher is in. Any questions today /ck/?

>>8133236
Thanks for your answers about dry aging.
Sounds like need a dedicated refrigerator with digital thermostat and humidistat, similar to tools for dry cured sausages.

>>8132059
What's your opinion on European beef vs US beef.
There seems to be a very large difference.

>>8132059
in a cuckolding situation, do you think you'd be the cuck or the bull?

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>>8133239
Aging meats and charcuterie meats are pretty specialized stuff. The process of aging causes net losses to overall weight, and gives less product a fuller flavor; but it comes at a cost. That's why steakhouses charge ridiculous prices for a steak. I doubt they're usually running 5 weeks (or more) of aging time unless it specifically says so on the menu, but aging in general is a very controlled process that with the right equipment is safe, easy, and very profitable.

>>8133241
Unfortunately, I have never had European beef. I have had Australian lamb and New Zealand lamb- they are definitely a little different from USDA grade meats.

My main experience that I can tell you about is US beef vs. Canadian beef. Canadians hold their beef to higher standards than the US does, and their AAA grade meats can often end up being prime without being certified Canadian Prime. I'll attach a picture to show some of the differences in grading.

I had a better chart for a long time, but for some reason I can't find it.

Overall, the taste of the Canadian beef (often corn fed, grass fed, or given other quality feed) is richer and the meat is often more tender than similarly graded US meats.

Perhaps it's only the farms that I've had my meats from- but I would believe that most of Canada treats their animals with a very similar set of raising and feeding standards/techniques.

I have, however, had friends who have visited Europe return to tell me that the meat in Europe is better than what we serve in the US. The reasons are simple- they (many places, that is) raise their stock with quality product and good living conditions; more than can be said for many US producers of beef... Our products aren't shit, and we do have some great producers in the US too, but Europe and Canada have better overall systems for rearing their cattle.

>>8133239
Last year when I butchered my own deer, after I took out the 2 backstraps and back loin, I just cutoff large chunks for "roasts" and then stripped the bones for stew/sausage meat. Are there easily identifiable lines to know where to cut the primary roasts from?

>>8133256
Thanks Butcher.
It seems Europe might be similar to Canada in the way they raise their cattle.
It's fairly hard to compare since I've never tried US fresh cuts.

>>8133236
plz2answer >>8132167

very important question here ===> >>8133251 mr butcher. please answer.

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>>8133258
Unless you're familiar with the seams of an animal, it won't always be apparent when one subprimal has ended and the next has begun. There is, however, often a seam that can be peeled/pulled away between the muscles when you're at the next section or piece (rib cap pulls off of rib steaks, tenderloin will peel away from the bone, sirloin cap will separate from sirloin, etc.).

Most people who butcher their own deer do exactly what you have done- take the important meat/steaks out of it, and leave the rest for roasts, stewing, sausage, and jerky.

I'll attach a chart of some of the deer cuts so you can get a general idea of where they're located.

If you have more questions about processing, or you want some more ideas for how to section out the animal, let me know. I'll try to help as much as I can with the matter.

>>8133320
Thanks. I quartered it out fine, then looked at the 2 dimensional charts for beef and couldn't relate it to my 3 dimensional leg quarters. I'm probably just really poor at spatial relations.

>>8133331
The 2d charts are often confusing when you're looking at them- especially when bone, other obstructions, and separations are associated with them.

I always say "as long as it tasted good, you did it right". Hopefully you've enjoyed all of that meat by now; after that 1 year mark you really start to lose the characteristic and the quality of the meat.

wtf butcher OP? you're deliberately not answering the most important, hard-hitting questions ITT. are you embarrassed of your answers but don't want to lie or somethung like that?

>>8133343
It doesn't last too long around my house. It's pretty much the only meat we eat until it's gone! Archery season starting 10/1, so (fingers crossed) we might be stocked up before long.

fine, fuck you then you double nigger

>>8133320
I want to buy chicken oysters by the pound
why cant i find them in stores
why

>>8133934

The average person doesn't even know what a chicken oyster is. There's no demand, thus nobody is going to bother to stock it.

>>8133934
What >>8133942 has mentioned is very accurate. Most people don't have any idea what a chicken oyster is. Chefs know what it is, and so do foodies. The other problem with chicken oysters is that they're so small it would take a massive amount of them to be good for cooking for company. A massive amount of those oysters would take a half as massive size of chickens...

Another problem is that most of the machines that cut chickens today do not favor any particular morsels of the bird. They merely hack and slash the birds apart. This leaves the oyster either on the leg, on the breast, or cut between the two (if not destroyed in the process).

If you want chicken oysters, you'd have to get them from somewhere that has actual cutters on staff so that they'd be able to collect them as they're parting out birds. It would be very cost prohibitive though.

I'm a meat cutter and I work in a traditional grocery store, so I get the riff-raff that is slightly better than walmart. There are always overwhelmingly stupid questions, and my favorite is this right now;

>I live in VA, not too hick-ish
>sometimes they come in, though
>Lady asks for pork shoulder or 'something similar'
>"Sorry ma'am, we don't have any shoulders in, but the closest we have is Pork Butt, which isn't really much differ-"
>"I don't want to eat the ass!"
>Elderly couple behind her stare in horror at the combination of ignorance and vulgarity
>I desperately try to explain to her that's just the name of it
>Has nothing to do with digestive tract, or fecal matter
>Elderly couple now try to reason with her
>She still won't buy it, just because it's called a Butt

Fucking hate grocery stores.

Got any good recipes for a brisket OP?

>>8132059
Is it frowned upon for me to come in and ask for cuts that aren't already available?

>>8134040
I have had a lot of similar issues with customers.

"Do you have any tri-tip roasts?"
"I'm afraid we do not carry tri-tip roasts as a regular item, but we do have---"
"No, it's not worth my time. It can't be better than a tri-tip roast. You never have any quality products here at all."

-Didn't even listen to hear that we'd either order in a case special for her to get her roast from or offer her sirloin cap steak for the same price or less.

*Also doesn't stop to consider that our shop offers only choice and higher products, many of which are choice+ or prime for the same money as the choice meats that come in. If we don't order it in as prime, the customer never pays prime price for prime meats that come out of the choice or higher cases; thus we offer exceptional value. We also offer to special order any cut should we not have what the customer needs in stock at the present time. --> Therefore, we have terrible products and customer service (according to ladies like the one above).

>>8134083
Depends on how you're hoping to cook that brisket up anon.

>>8134091
Absolutely not (at my store, at least).

It often depends on three things to determine if they're able to get what you need though: 1) what store you're at, 2) where you're located geographically, and 3) what you're hoping to get. Uncommon cuts are often difficult to find. Some steaks/roasts (tri-tip for example) are often harder to find on the East Coast of the US than it is on the West Coast of the US. It's just a matter of where it is typically popular. It is also hard to find cultural/national cuts from other regions/countries (Argentinian, Mexican, Italian, other European nations, etc.) because most meat cutters in the US are unfamiliar with the other cutting styles that are needed to create these pieces. Additionally, we do not prepare our cattle the same way in the US as they do in other parts of the world- so it may actually be highly unlikely to find the group of muscles together in one piece that it would take to make certain cuts...

What kind of cut were you hoping to find?

>>8134092
I've never cooked a brisket before, and I'm not really familiar with that cut of meat, so I'm wondering what would be the best way to cook it. Also, I'd rather it not taste like a generic "roast"

>>8134040
>Not eating ass

>>8134108
Best way of course is to smoke it Texas style. If you only have the flat though you could always do a corned beef, and if you want smoke that to get pastrami.

Of course you could smoke just the flat to but won't be as good as a whole brisket that has the point also with all that delicious fat.

>>8134108
What options for cooking do you have available to you?

Most of the people I know that love brisket are smoking them. Though braised briskets are good too. Some people do still cook them like a roast though; which is something you said you're hoping to avoid.

Were you hoping to smoke or grill this bad boy? Or did you have different plans for its cooking style?

If I had to take my pick for cooking a brisket, I know I would be smoking it. Smoking a brisket is cash (as >>8134155 has mentioned). I know that not everyone has the ability to smoke their brisket though, so there are other options if you'd like to try those.

>>8133942
>>8133988
i know...
Theres a bar in San Diego that offers Fried Chicken Oysters. its the fucking best. Fuck KFC or Chickfila, i want a 20 piece order of those

>>8132059
Any good stories? Customer stupidity, accidents, interesting occurrances, interns screwing things up, anything?

>>8134157
If I rember right, butchers and meat cutters used to have a strong national union. Do they still? Do you think it detracts or helps ensure quality?

>>8134108
Around Naples Italy, brisket is often stewed/braised (not sure what the English language word is for the technique) in tomato sauce then pulled into shreds.
Thereafter, we stuff small breads with the stuff as well as some cheese or we use it as a filling for our regional variant of lasagne.
In the winter, we make a stock from beef knes aand simmer brisket in it a good, long while. Some spoon-sized pastais cooked in salted water, drained, bowled and topped with the stock. Two schools of though on how to eat the meat here: if no veg were used in making the soup, we pull the brisket into shreds and eat it along with the stock and pasta, but if we cooked veg (like carrots, celery etc), we serve the pasta and soup by themselves then the brisket and veg together as second course.

Those are nice preparations, I think. Try those?

>>8134157
Answer this one: >>8132167

>>8134170
That's some lucky stuff man. I hope you're utilizing that opportunity to the fullest.

If I'm ever out that way I'll have to look for that bar.

>>8134185
I've got plenty of stories. Let me know if there's any situation you're looking for in particular. If not, I'll post a story or two later from my "favorite customer list".

>>8134188
I've actually never been part of any meat cutter or butcher's union. I know that they certainly used to have them, and a major one was dissolved in 1979 (AMC, I think). I am not sure if there is presently an official meat cutter/butcher union in the US... I'd have to look into that. As far as quality is concerned, the clientele typically seem to manipulate the quality expected from the meat cutters and butchers (from my experience, at least).

>>8134222
That sounds like excellent cooking advice. As l pay respects to trips, I will oblige your request to answer the other question in my next post.

>>8132059
You got a higher res version of that pic?
Maybe for pork as well?

Would be easier to go to my local Metzger and point on a pic instead of trying to translate something like "boneless chuck eye".

>>8132059
what cuts are best for slow cooking?

>>8134222
To be clear, if you cooked veg with your soup and eat it as second course with the brisket, the brisket is carved at the table and slices are eaten with the vegetables with knife and fork.

>>8134235
Thanks for saying so. I'm the overseas Italian bitching and moaning last thread about having difficulty finding anyone who sells Italian cuts or is willing to make them for me unless I buy a quarter of beef. I'd do it, too, but I've not enough space for all that beef.
Thanks for the advice back then.

>>8134238
I have a lot of charts. I'll put up a higher resolution example for both beef and pork (beef in this post, pork picture for my next one).

>>8134244
The best cuts I can think of for slow cooking are as follows: chuck roast, bottom round/rump roast, short ribs, neck meat, oxtail, and shin meat.

Oxtail soup is delicious too. Unfortunately, the tail has been getting more expensive lately (as has the neck)...

>>8134253
Glad I could offer help. I hope it's proven useful. If there's anything else I can do for you, please feel free to ask.

By request:
>>8132167
A woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck would chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. But if a woodchuck could chuck woodchucks chucking wood, then a woodchuck could chuck wood-chucking woodchucks...

To make it meat related, a woodchuck weighs approximately 13 pounds- of that, approximately 25% would be considered to be chuck meat. Therefore a woodchuck chucking wood-chucking woodchucks would be throwing approximately 3.25 pounds of chuck.

>>8134106
Well I'm in the UK and I was just curious as to the willingness of butchers to go out of their comfort zone. I have asked for jacobs ladder before which I know youcant get in the US since you quarter your cattle but I've had trouble getting it here.

Things that are hard to get in a supermarket tend to be equally hard to get in butchers though. Good luck trying to find a pork belly that isn't pre-sliced in a supermarket but I seem to have similar troubles in butchers.

Also here a lot of the things in butchers are basically pre-formed burgers and chicken legs with 'chinese' spice or 'bbq spice seem to be popular, is that true in the US?

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>>8134238
>>8134302

Derp- forgot the chart.

>>8132059
Any under appreciated cuts that hipsters havent ruined yet?

>>8134306
>pre-formed burgers and chicken legs with 'chinese' spice or 'bbq spice seem to be popular, is that true in the US?

I'm not OP, but as a US customer I'll throw in my two cents here.

I see a lot of that kind of thing at supermarkets--pre-seasoned chicken wings, legs, etc. Premade burger patties of varying quality. Pre-seasoned steaks or pork chops, fajita meat, and so on. But I've never seen those things at an actual "butcher".

>>8134235
What does "USDA inspected" mean? Not every beef carcass is actually inspected is it? Is it just some guy with a stamp on an assembly line? How would they spot something sinister just by looking at a carcass?

Hanger is the most underrated steak, confirm or deny?

>>8134316
Yeah that's usually what they have on display here. Pretty annoying when you try and browse and they offer you cut price chicken in a shite dry rub

>>8134302
Well, how much chuck would Chuck Wood chuck if Chuck Wood would chuck chuck?

>>8134316
I've seen it at one butcher only, a Jamaican shop. He sells goat chunks and cut-up chicken already dusted in curry spices or jerk spices. They open a bit later in the day, 10am, and they occasionally run late but still open the doors on time in case customers just need a case of eggs or bottle of milk or something (small fridge near the front of the shop). On days they're running late, you can see the guys cutting up the meat and/or putting them in huge vats with the spices and shaking it up. The only issue I have with the place is that they don't seem (though I could be just unobservant) to have separate spice vats, one for chicken and the other fot goat.

>>8134306
Pre-formed burgers is definitely the norm in the US. We often are too lazy to do it ourselves, so pre-formed is the way to do it. In a traditional shop and some grocery stores, the preformed patties are actually patties that are made on site by one of the workers. In many stores, however, they're preformed elsewhere and merely sold in the store.

Many grocery stores also offer "spiced" or "seasoned" chicken legs because it offers a variety to the consumer. BBQ is huge across the pond here in the states, so saving the customer a step or two often helps bring a higher rate of sales. I agree with >>8134316 that MOST butchers don't bother to preseason anything, as the reason to go to them in the US is to assure fresh and honest products.

>>8134311
I can't really weigh in on that, unfortunately. Most of the cuts in the animal are really well known in my area- I'm not sure what it's like elsewhere in the states...

Of the cuts in my area, however, I would say that sirloin cap is the least appreciated cut. Flat iron steaks, flank steaks, neck meat, oxtails, heart, liver, kidneys, all of these things are getting rather popular lately- though it's not all about one group of people. The cheap cuts are getting more expensive because they're still the "cheapest cut" and the stores know people will still pay for them.

>>8134319
It would take a long time to type it all out, but this website gives a good idea about the process: http://www.clovermeadowsbeef.com/meat-inspection/.

>>8134320
I will deny this claim. In my local area, the hangar steak is well known and people pay top dollar for it. It's actually overrated here if anything. I know this is different depending on what area of the world you're from though. It's definitely a good piece of meat though!

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>>8134238
>>8134356
Yet again I dropped the ball. Here's your pork chart.

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>>8134238
Here's another beef chart.

>>8134370
where do silverside, sirloin and chuck get their names from?

>>8134370
>>8134379
and spare rib, ribeye

how can any ribs be spare?

>>8134185
Not him but here's one of mine

>VERY FIRST day of my first internship at a butcher shop
>Goes pretty good for pretty much the entire day
>After the butcher finished breaking down some beef the block has a little pile of trim
>Tells me to clean the block and trim while he goes to the freezer
>scrape up bone dust/other mess
>up until this point in the day he hadn't kept any trimmings so I wad them up and dump them in the trash just as he comes back with a tub
>he wanted me to get the trim together so he could chill them for sausage
>He wasn't mad just disappointed
>I wanted to slit my wrists with the bandsaw
>Didn't get to make sausage that week

>>8134379
I actually haven't ever heard where the term chuck or sirloin came from. Silverside comes from the thick layer of membrane that appears as a white or silver color on the side of the whole piece. Sometimes it's called "silverwall" instead.

Sorry I do not know more about these names.

I was told spare ribs are called "spare ribs" because it came from the old term "spear-ribs" meaning that they were cooked over a fire traditionally with a spear.

Ribeye makes sense. It's a steak from the rib section of the animal and the swirl of fat that passes through a well-marbled steak gives the appearance of an eye in the center.

>>8134351
I'm afraid I cannot answer the riddle of the woodchucks any further than I already have. Sorry anon.

>>8134392
Sad times my friend. The first day in the shop is always an interesting one... except for mine. Pretty simple and bland stuff for my first day. I'll share a story or two of mine later.

The Butcher is headed out for a bit, but I will return later. In the meantime, feel free to leave me a pile of questions- I will answer them all when I get back.

>>8134426
if you wanted to do some butching, what are the minimum tools you need?

is a lamb, or a half lamb a good thing to try first?

>>8134308
>>8134359
>>8134370
Many thanks.

>>8134703

Not OP but small game needs no explanation. Gut, skin, quarter, and cook all 5 pieces.

>>8134426
Have you worked with whole rabbit before or have any material that could help in butchering one?

>>8134703
>>8134788
what are you doing?

What are the translations of steak between places ? Example, britian we call it a sirloin, americans call it a strip. Feather steak and flat irom are the same too.

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>>8132059
Would you be the mad butcher?

Why is hangar steak so hard to find? I go to actual butcher shops and they never have. My restaurant buys it in 5lb bag so it's definitely out there

>>8134444
Nice quads anon.

If you're interested in butchering, you should start with the less expensive cuts of meat. Lamb and veal are usually the last two things you will learn to cut due to their cost, small size (need more knife mastery), and their delicate nature.

I would recommend starting with chickens, varieties of small game, or pork (if you're looking for something a little larger, that is).

Something else to consider would be learning about general meat cutting (like what is done at a mid-level or upper-level grocery store) first. That way you get some knife skills, get used to boning, get used to honing your knives and sharpening them, and you get a good basis of what cuts are called as well as what the general anatomy of the animal is and how the subprimals fit together.

That being said, you should have a variety of knives... but if money is an issue, you can shorten that list of knives to two: 1) a 5 or 6 inch boning knife (probably semi-stiff) and 2) a 10 or 12 inch cimeter. It depends on what you're doing for each knife, so make sure that you're being wise in your selection if you're going to get knives. If you're working somewhere, they might buy you knives. You can also hone your knife on the clock and probably sharpen your knives on the stones before or after you clock out for the night if need be.

For this reason, you shouldn't need any honing steels or sharpening stones at home for personal use. If you're not getting a job at a store with this knowledge, you would be wise to invest in a multi-faced (or multiple individual) sharping stone(s) and a fine steel (if you have enough money, a coarse and medium steel would also be worthwhile; as would a polishing steel- but they are the least useful in comparison to the others...).

If you're really interested in learning about this kind of thing, I can go into more detail in another post for you anon. Just let me know.

>>8134486
You've got it. Glad I could be of assistance.

>>8134788
I've definitely seen my share of small game while cutting meat. Typically when you start learning, it's with chicken and small game- as it's inexpensive if there are errors, and it helps you to get used to working around various bones, techniques associated with skinning, and parting out a carcass.

That being said, rabbits are extremely simple. Typically, you do what >>8134734 has suggested. Gut the rabbit, skin it, break it apart into quarters, and then cook everything. Some people gut it, skin it, and roast the whole rabbit.

I actually might have a book upstairs that deals with butchering of rabbits- but I haven't needed it for quite some time, so I'd have to dig it out. If you are in great need of the material, let me know. If I find it I could email you some pictures from the book.

>>8134907
The switches between steaks are really weird- especially between the UK and the US. Just like the UK's "joints of pork"- we just call them roasts here in the US. You also have some pretty spectacular cuts in the UK that you won't find the US- such as "a roast of spare rib". Shit is amazing, but you'll be darned to find them being sold like that in the US. We might have a different name for such a cut, but I cannot think of it at the present.

I actually don't have a book of the changes, nor any charts for that matter- but if it's important to you I'll try to map something out for you.

>>8134944
Looks like a portly gentleman without much facial hair or hair on his head- he's got the portly part right to be me, but I've got more hair on my face and my head than that. That's a pretty traditional picture too- striped apron, an old school hat... looks like the real deal to me.

I've actually never seen that company name before though- thanks for giving me something to look into. Cheers!

>>8134963
Hanger steak... a rare beast indeed. There's a hanger steak/hanging tenderloin shortage almost everywhere that people want them. The problem is this- when you get in a half beef, often times the hanger is already missing. The guys on the production lines often take them off of the animal for themselves while they're working. I have a friend that worked a boning line for 20 years. He hates hanger steaks because he ate at least one a day for all of those years. He said it was common place to take anything you wanted from the animal while it was going down the line. You see a tenderloin that has incredible marbling? Screw the customer- you could take that bitch right off the beef and pay wholesale costs to take that baby home to your wife and kids (or your girlfriend/escort/friends [or your waifu and your battle station]- whatever floats your boat).

Hangers were always targeted though. Mostly because of the prestige of having hanger steak. If the hanging tender made it the whole way off the line, it's luck of the draw for whether or not the butcher shop will get the right part of the beef that would give them the hanger steak.

If you've got a shop with meat cutters (get all of their meat in boxed rather than getting sides of beef), it's VERY RARE for them to even consider ordering in hangers due to their cost, how quickly they turn, and everything else associated with a hanger steak.

It's definitely possible to get them by ordering them in, but for the average anon, it's a rather serious scarcity to find them...

>>8135027
thanks

I watched a few hunting videos where they field stripped deer, then saw a couple on how to butcher a pig and a cow. looked pretty interesting. I don't think it's something I want to do for a career, but looks like a useful skill to know in a SHTF scenario, or if I take up hunting. or if they succeed in automating my IT stuff or sending it all to india

chickens, why didn't I think of that?!

are the boning knife and cimeter useful in a kitchen, or should just be used for butching?

>>8135233
It's definitely not everyone's choice for a career- but it's definitely a skill that most people should be familiar with incase of a SHTF or survival situation. Knowing how to process some variety of game and food should be an essential life skill that everyone learns when they're young.

The boning knife can be used for a lot of different things- it's largely used for butchering/processing meats, but I've used my boning knife for chopping onions, for carving melons, and all sorts of other kitchen related items. Then again, most knives can be used for multiple purposes. That being said, the best use for the knives would be for processing meat.

I've never used my cimeter when I wasn't breaking down a large piece of meat at home or cutting meat at work. It's a rather unwieldy blade for general household tasks. It also doesn't have a good rocking function like a chef knife- so it's not nearly as versatile.

You don't need to get anything fancy for those knives- a standard Victorinox-Forschner blade will do its job wonderfully for years to come at a price that's very fair.

>>8132059
why is tritip so hard to find on the east coast?

>>8135323
>at a price that's very fair.
what kind of money are we talking?

How do you cope with how shitty of a job being a butcher is?

Long hours, terrible pay, medium to hard labour all day, the worst customers no matter where you are (given, I've never worked in anything but in a retail butcher.) and you get to work with some of the dumbest and shittiest people you'll ever meet.

My biggest life regret is choosing this garbage career.

>>8135386
About $60-65 for the pair. It depends on where you're getting them though. There's a website online called webstaurant that offers some exceptional deals on many culinary-related items. You don't need to be a restaurant to get some good deals.

They also offer to give you credit toward your next purchase if you take pictures of your item, make a video of your item in use, or write a review for that item. If you do all three, you get $16 in store credit.
Not too bad for a few extra moments of your time...

These knives can last you for years (or decades) if you treat them right- so they're definitely worth their weight.

>>8135367
The tri-tip or triangle steak or bottom sirloin steak as it is also called is a piece that is nestled between the top sirloin and the sirloin tip. When stores order top sirloin or sirloin tip, they're getting marginal portions of tri-tip, but not enough to do anything with (if they're getting any of it at all attached to those pieces). It's not as common on the East Coast because it's a Cali and West Coast cut. It's the same as flat irons and flank steaks were about 10 years ago. They just got popular for (almost) no reason. Celeb chefs wanted to use it, so it got popular. For some reason tri-tip never really caught on for East Coasters.

I guess its general lack of availability on our coast doesn't help any either. Since the demand is present on the West Coast, the processors make sure that the steer being butchered are able to offer up the tri-tip so that they can make the most money possible while parting out their beefs.

>>8135425
I'm going to be out for another hour or two, but I'll get back to you when I get home.

>>8133256
Hey butcher buddy. New Zealand chef reporting.

I was wondering if you could elaborate about the differences between NZ raised lamb and US raised lamb, as well as differences in meat in general, and why you would lump Australian meat in with it.

In terms of what I can say, it is that we tend to have very high animal welfare protection regulation, and the majority, if not all, of our meat is grass reared our its entire life simply due to the economics. Loads of land and loads of rainfall makes grain rearing non-existent and grain finishing uncommon.

My question about Aus. meat is that they lack the rainfall that we get here and their meat, especially if it is at the bottom of the market tends to be very different and not to the same standard as we have here. But of course there are people carefully and lovingly rearing Delicious beasts everywhere.

I have cooked professionally in both countries.

When I was working in Europe, I did find the meat to be delicious, though the retail stuff at the bottom end could be terrible too. I would say the quality was the same as in Canada, though we had a pretty exceptional source of beef in the restaurant I was working in there.

>>8133256
Oh and thanks again. Your threads are a continual must read for me.

t.
>>8135447

>>8135425
Actually, after trying to butcher a deer on my own, my respect for pros increased dramatically.

This individual, who spends his free time trying to help people with questions they have about meat and the processing thereof, has increased my respect for not only this individual, but the profession even more.

It sounds to me like if you paid attention to the way he approaches living, you might like your life better.

>>8135432
what's you opinion of halal and kosher slaughter and butchery, and the fact that non-muslims/non-jews are excluded from working there. also it amounts to a religious tax payed by all customers

>>8135454
You can have knowledge and passion about anything. You can shovel shit, be the best at it, but that doesn't take away that its a shit job.

The only rewarding part of the job is the part hes doing now; talking shop. Helping people cook better. Its nice, but it doesnt really make up for the long days, shitty pay, and shitty people.

>>8135425
I agree with you that the pay could be better for the work that we do. Hell, I know I've put in 14 hour days (or longer) during holiday seasons to make sure everyone else's tables were ready for their family feasts. It's not always glamorous, but it has definitely paid my bills over the years.

The labor can definitely be intensive whether you're at a traditional butcher shop or at a grocery store that still offers real meat cutters and fresh meats (gotta love when people package whole bone-in pork loins 4 to a case, right?). I've definitely also had customers that have almost driven me to the point of insanity! But, at the end of the day, if you're able to see the happiness and enjoyment you bring to the faces of many of your customers throughout the day (even if they might ask simple questions or ask you things that aren't even associated with your line of work), the job pays off pretty well.

I haven't had too much trouble with any of the employees I've been surrounded with aside from some of the wrappers and some of the cleaning staff. I appreciate what they do- especially because it means that I don't have to stick around an extra 5 hours to do it myself... So if I can help guide them a little to make their work easier and the store cleaner, I'm always down to put in a little extra time to help get everything going in the right direction.

Is it a rough job sometimes? Hell yes. Is it a rewarding job? Not always... but to those who appreciate what I do, it makes it all the better. Could we be paid better for what we're doing? Absolutely. In the end, however, I can't say that I'm displeased with my line of work. In fact, I'm happy to work with the people I do and serve the community in order to make a living. I know it's a job that will never disappear too (so that's something at least)!

>>8135447
It's nice to see you post again.

I'd be happy to talk about the lamb as far as I've seen it (and heard about it). If I'm wrong about something, please let me know. You're only as good as your sources and your personal experience in this field...

As I understand it: Australian lamb used to be pretty undesirable. In more recent years, they started mating their lamb with American lamb. This has caused a medium sized lamb in comparison to their older, smaller, variety. Since that time, their lamb has been selling relatively well in the states.

American lamb tastes the least gamey between the three because it is raised with a moderate level of grain in its diet. It is believed that the grass-fed lambs from other countries have more "game" to their flavor.

N.Z. Lamb is supposed to be the smallest, and a while ago it was also the cheapest and least desired in the US as a food source. However, the lamb we've been getting for years for N.Z. has been very well received by our clientele and the price has also been pretty fair.

I've been fortune in my field to not have ever had any lamb that wasn't of high quality (a perk and a curse of the line of work), so I am unable to comment further about the quality of the lower levels of US lamb, AUS lamb, or N.Z. lamb.

As far as beef goes: I know bottom end meats in the US are definitely not good either. Select and Standard are just shit grades. Nothing good about them (canning grade is the worst, I guess)- the meat is devoid of marbling and even external fat is low. The coloration can be light red with soft meat texture and firmness... Absolutely horrible. Canadian meat always has to be a firm firmness and a firm texture as well as be darker red in coloration. Interesting stuff, really. I wish the US would step up their grading system and their livestock requirements...

Thanks for stopping by for another thread.

>>8135454
It's definitely not as easy as many assume. "Drag the knife here, drag the knife there..." is what a customer used to tell me about processing deer. I told them that I feared it was a little more complicated than they gave it credit for!

I appreciate that you're drawing on my positive outlook and my interest in helping people- it's definitely one of the most rewarding parts of the job. As >>8135866 has mentioned, it is a tough (and often thankless) job which many companies often try to pay their workers as little as possible to do. Often stores treat butchers and meat cutters as unintelligent work-mules that know how to create product for a store and lug around heavy stuff for other departments when needed. We've gathered a reputation of often being portly, easy to agitate, and drinkers when we get home for the day. An old man I used to work with once said, "You see Butcher, you either live to bleed yourself dry for your family during the day and fall to a drunken stupor before retiring for the night or you find yourself a way out." Dude didn't talk much, but when he did it was either a) incredibly deep and depressing, b) an extremely valuable life lesson, or c) teaching someone how to do their job better.

I enjoy talking to people and making others happy- so for me, the job (even with its faults) is a pretty good thing. The pay could be better, as we've said earlier- but I'm still afloat, living life and spending time with my friends when I can. Life is good.

>>8135462
I think that the general process of slaughter and butchery is one of quality. The animals are (more or less) humanely killed and processed in a rapid fashion. It's efficient, and the quality of product that comes from each of the animals that is certified Halal or Kosher is typically excellent (though I've seen some pretty small loins from them).

I suppose it's like any other club or private event- they'll allow whoever they want to do the work, and everyone else is denied. I can't say that I think it's fair that they can avoid inclusion everyone outside of their own local sect from working there- especially if someone outside of their beliefs is an amazing worker; but in private business, this is not an uncommon act.

I was unfamiliar with the taxation of other customers for the production of Halal and Kosher meats. I suppose I'll have to take a look into that...

>>8135966
>I can't say that I think it's fair that they can avoid inclusion everyone outside of their own local sect from working there- especially if someone outside of their beliefs is an amazing worker; but in private business, this is not an uncommon act.
is a White or Christian owned slaughterhouse or butchers allowed to discriminate in hiring?

>I was unfamiliar with the taxation of other customers for the production of Halal and Kosher meats
a rabbi or imam has to be on hand to bless the cattle. this is paid for by the customer.

I've heard that most food products in america have a kosher symbol, paid for by each consumer in order to make sure it's ok for chosen consumption.

>>8136078
>businesses disadvantage themselves and put a higher price on things becasue jews and muslims.

The simple fact is that companies that sell kosher or halal products do so becasue it improves their bottom line.
There is literally no other reason they would do it.

So they are either specialty providers, who charge a premium to a clientlele who are willing to pay it.

Or they reach a larger market and can absorb whatever cost due to economies of scale and reaching a wider market.


tldr; /Pol/, you have to go back...

>>8136078
Perhaps it is not legal business practice to do so, but people are often discriminated against other ways by other companies during the hiring process.

I'm not saying it's fair, but it's how it presently works. It's also probably due to the fact that a priest wouldn't know the same prayers and blessings to apply to Haram or Kosher meats. Haram and Kosher meats aren't necessary for people outside of their representative faiths; so I suppose that's why the legal discrepancies in hiring are allowed to take place.

The cost of the goods goes up, yes. I do not consider this to be a "tax" that all citizens have to pay though. If you're not buying the good, it doesn't matter. You are right, however, that a staggering amount of goods are now being listed as Kosher friendly (42%, last I heard). However, only people who are buying these products are paying the price.

At any rate, that's just the way things are- there's nothing we can do to change it. That's all I have to say on the matter.

>>8136207
Now I'm curious, what's the primary demographic visiting your shop? It's a whole lotta greeks and greek americans for me

>>8136240
I actually have a lot of variety coming into the shop I work at.

If I had to drop numbers, I'd say that approximately 50% of my clients are caucasians, 20% are Asian, 15% are African American, 10% are Hispanic, and 5% are of Indian descent.

>>8136190
>There is literally no other reason they would do it.
kek, it certainly wouldn't be to force others out of business or territory

>>8136207
>I suppose that's why the legal discrepancies in hiring are allowed to take place
above the law, got it

>I do not consider this to be a "tax" that all citizens have to pay though
there are many taxes you only pay if you buy a particular product. gas, energy, car tax, cigarettes, alcohol, and sales tax in general

>only people who are buying these products are paying the price.
are they even aware that there is an extra tax on these products?

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>>8134157
>>8134155
>>8134222
Thank you for the brisket techniques, I think I'll try braising it like >>8134222
said

what's the deal with country style ribs? they're from the chuck part of the cow so are they not actually ribs?

Hey butcher, what cuts should i look for to make blue rares?

How do i make blue rare?

>>8136350
I've actually never seen/sold beef country style ribs. We sell bone in short ribs and boneless (chuck) short ribs at my location, but when we use the term "country style" we solely use it to refer to pork products. The pork country style rib is typically made from the rib end of the whole pork loin. It is then sawed through the bone and then cut down to fit our packing needs.

If you have a picture of your variant of country style ribs, I wouldn't mind seeing it.

>>8136356
When you say "blue rares" do you mean steaks that are cooked blue rare? Or do you mean something completely different? Blue rare/Pittsburg rare/Black and Blue/etc. is typically done by using an excessively hot torch or surface and is only seared on all sides before being served. The outside of the meat is warm or hot, but the inside of the meat is still cold and raw.

There's some stories that go with how the name was decided, but I don't know the truth to any of them.

Regardless, you can do this with most steaks. Obviously the nicer the grade, the more tender your steak will be. If you'e never done it before and don't know if you'll like it, try getting a half inch sirloin steak (top butt sirloin) and try it out. It's not going to break the bank like a fillet or another high grade steak, but it will give you an idea for how the steak will be when you eat it.

If you're thinking of something completely different, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you out. That's just the only blue rare I can think of right now.

>>8136307
Sales tax is dependent on what area (or state) you're in. That tax is more or less unavoidable aside from certain exemptions (some food products and drinks).

There's taxes on all sorts of shit though- convenience taxes, luxury taxes, etc. It's not like tax on Halal or Kosher meat is really the biggest problem in the world. Since you can't avoid it when buying the product, it doesn't do any good to worry about it.

I think most people understand that when they buy a premium item or a specialty item that they are going to end up paying extra. Whether it's a "tax" that's levied or just uncharging in general, it should be pretty evident and understandable that that's what's going on.

>>8136307
with the exception of kosher meat (20-25% increase of price), most other goods that have be certified are hardly more expensive than not due to scale.
Why would a company not put a little effort in that can expand their customer base?

Question from the chicken fried steak thread. Anon doesn't believe me, maybe he would believe you.
Cube steak is usually a low grade top round, correct? Or something equally bad, stringy, tough. So its rolled through a cubing machine to pierce it a million times and fuck it up.
Does this really improve bad meat? And alternatively, what better quality cut to buy for a good cubed steak? What exactly are the pre-packaged ones made from?
If I want a GOOD chicken fried steak, what do I ask for? And would you roll your eyes if a customer asks for a nice steak to be cubed?
Point is, how to buy beef for a great chicken fried steak? To be breaded with seasoned flour, and fried in oil for just a few minutes per side, often served with gravy. I'm wary at the "cube steak" packages that fail to mention wtf is this beef cut? If this is a ghetto cheap meal by nature, is it okay to use undesirable beef here?

>>8136852

I'm not the butcher, but as a Texan who has eaten a lot of chicken fried steak:

I've never seen the meat be stringy or to contain connective tissue. And the cube steaks I see at the butcher counter are clearly free of those things as well. I don't know the exact cut, but whatever it is is very lean and I never see any hints of silverskin or other "stringy" things in it.

Yeah, the cubing machine pierces it a zillion times. That doesn't fuck anything up though. Jaccarding meat actually reduces loss of juices during cooking. I realize it's counter-intuitive, but it certainly doesn't "fuck anything up". There's a great discussion of this in Modernist Cuisine if you want to learn more.

As for what cut to use: whatever it is needs to be lean because you'll be breading and frying it. If you were to use a well marbled steak cut then the fat would make it soggy & the breading would fall off. The meat certainly needs to be a lean cut.

>>8136872
Ive had cube steak that was pretty gristly before, that's why I'm wary. I know a high priced butcher wouldn't do that, but discount stores certainly will. Why? Because they can sell it as "cube steak" without revealing what it really is. Junk with a big price markup. Just like many sausages, and "stew meat".
By "fucked up" I mean the meat is highly modified, almost one notch shy of grinding. The fibers are mostly severed, leaving behind just enough to keep it whole as a "steak". Not that this is a bad thing, its just different, and I quite like it. But chicken fried steak can indeed be low quality, and that's what I'm looking to avoid, so I am asking for what to buy. If I cant trust whats on the shelf, maybe I need the butcher to put the cut I desire thru the cubing machine in front of me, so I actually know what I'm buying. I'm not a mystery meat kind of person.

>>8137025
Why do you keep saying the meat is "fucked up"? It's fucking cube steak, that's literally what it is meat that has been smashed and pierced to tenderize it. You can't get a non "fucked up" cube steak because then it wouldn't be a fucking cube steak.

Are you autistic or something?

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>>8136748
I think this is what I've seen before. there's no bone in it. some meat diagrams I've seen show it as actually coming from the chuck part, but other things I've seen said they're boneless short ribs.

>>8137050
Its "fucked up" because its unrecognizable. Sorry if my informal term is too unclear for you, but after its smashed and perforated, its really hard to tell what you're actually buying.
My question for the butcher is, "what is this?" and if its crappy mystery meat, then whats a better choice? All I want is a tasty and tender chicken fried steak, and I don't want to get ripped off buying unidentified meat.

>>8134235
Story guy here, had a few problems here and ended up forgetting about the request. I'm mostly interested in funny/amusing stuff instead of gore/shocking/disgusting, but the "favorite customer list" could be a good start.

>>8137070
you're missing the point of fried steak. they use tougher meat like round because it's "unrecognizable" after it's been cubed. turning a ribeye into fried steak would be retarded because it's already tender and fatty.

>>8137070
>its really hard to tell what you're actually buying.

Maybe it's difficult to determine what cut you're buying, but I'm not sure how that is relevant.

What matters is the fat and gristle/silverskin content. And that you can easily see with your eyes: does the meat look uniformly dark red? Then you're good. Does the meat have little spots or streaks of white (fat) or silver/gray (gristle) in it? Then it's shit.

>>8137241
Guy who posted
>>8134392

I once had to explain to a man that chicken fried steak wasn't made from chickens. He wasn't rude or ornery, just incredulous. We had a good chuckle about it

>>8136078
no idea about halal, but the whole Kosher food=blessed by a Rabbi is not how Kosher food works

>>8132059
Have you ever gutted deer?

If so can you give me advice or a video that you think is good so I can gut whatever I hunt while it's still fresh? I don't want a bowel rupturing while I'm driving to the butcher.

>>8138175
>gut rupturing while driving
Unless your shit pierced the stomach or intestines, this seems extremely unlikely. I've never heard any instance of it occurring.

But if you wanna gut it yourself then and there, get a good sharp knife and be careful not to puncture anything you don't want to see the inside of

A lot of people hang the carcass which is especially helpful if you were to immediately start breaking it down (though I recommend allowing a freshly killed animal to sit for at least a night to let the meat firm a little bit. Not critical but it does make the later cutting a bit easier than just a few minutes dead) but you won't be doing your own cutting so yeah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewCVFkkyQC4 I rarely do shooting and gutting myself but I admire this guy's technique, and it coincidentally mentions bits like the bladder

>>8136748

blue rare guy here, thank you, that is exactly what i was looking for :)

I have a question for the tripfag
Why don't you just take your attention whoring to reddit where it belongs?

>>8138394
How cute, the shitposter is back

>>8136852
The Texan is pretty much spot on about cube steaks.

The answer to your question about what kind of meat is generally used is one of the following: bottom round, eye round, or top round. Most frequently I see bottom and eye round used for cube steak.

What really happens to the meat is that it is made thinner (more or less) by going through the rollers/blades of a "tenderizer"/cuber- so the thinner meat is easier to chew and quicker to cook.

I think the best cube steaks probably come from the eye round. It's very lean, and its steaks are a good size for cubing.

I would recommend against using a higher grade meat for a cubed steak (as the Texan also mentioned).

If you have cube steak that had a lot of gristle or issues, my guess would be that they used bottom round and didn't cut out the seam/wall that is on one side of the roast.

Butchers and meat cutters typically loathe customers coming up with specific items to cube them, send them through a tenderizer/cuber, or to be ground individually (in fact, this last point will soon be much more difficult to come by anyway... good old FDA). It takes away from their scheduled tasks and often will not yield you much better of a result (if any better) than what is already on the shelf.

>>8137053
Legit. I'm with you now. Short ribs (boneless) can be taken from a lot of different locations... It's a confusing topic, really.

They can be taken from the chuck, the brisket, the plate, and the rib... crazy shit. It's hard to know what you're getting sometimes.

>>8138175
I actually haven't- crazy, right? I've processed plenty of deer, but they've all been gutted prior to when I get my hands on them. It's not an overly difficult procedure though (as the video >>8138351 posted has shown). It takes some basic knife skills and a steady hand.

Typically it takes a lot for internal organs and pieces to rupture, but what you're doing by field dressing is saving a lot of weight for the return trip.

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>>8138394
>The one good tripfag on this board is attention whoring by answering questions using his expertise on meat and its various cuts
>not the one who's trying to fit in by using buzzwords
wew lad

>>8132059
Is there a certain age or some other criteria that seperates beef from veal?

I got some beef steaks from my local butcher the other day and this time they were exceptionally good. Quite a bit more tender than usual, though it's normally really good but this time it was just better, and it appeared much lighter in colour. Closer to veal than beef.

I'm not complaining but I'm just curious to know why, and the best I can think of is that that particular cow might have been a young one.

Thoughts?

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Do you ever pretend you're Pudge and say things like
>They call me the butcher
>FRESH MEAT
>FILL YOUR LUNGS UP

>>8132059
what cut do you like in a classic beef stew (as in irish stew or beef bourginon)?

>>8138351
If the weather is right (or you're keeping it in cooled storage at home), you can leave that carcass hanging for a few days before processing it. Having that rigor mortis effect leave the deer before processing helps a lot.

>>8138376
I'm glad to have been able to be of assistance.

>>8138688
In theory, the classification of veal is given to young calves between 6 to 7 months of age (some people will fudge these numbers though for a little). However, once it gets to a certain age, the meat will darken to the redness of "mature" animal- at this point, they're classified as beef (typically by the one year mark).

There's also some differences in how they're treated and fed- but that's not an expertise of mine, unfortunately. I've never had the pleasure of raising my own livestock for slaughter. I could ask around if you're interested in that portion of the life of the animal.

It's also possible that you just ended up with a higher grade of beef this time around from your local butcher. Sometimes a choice beef will pop up out of a whole farm of select.

It could also be that the animal was killed in a more comfortable condition than others you've had. The meat is said to darken when the animal is uncomfortable, scared, etc. before its death. When traditional guys kill their meat in the field, it's more tender and the coloration is usually a great red coloration. More of a scarlet than a crimson or carmine.

You are right though- veal is a lighter color; so it's possible that you got a cut that was from a younger animal.

It's hard to say for sure though- especially since I cannot see it!

>>8138714
Some people I know use lamb for their Irish stew; so I'll leave that one out of the equation for now.

I've heard that a lean meat is best for beef bourguignon. Some friends had success with neck meat, bottom round/rump roasts, and with bolar roasts as well.

Since my French cuisine skills are low, I cannot give a personal confirmation for what meat to use.

>>8138763
i was more asking personal preference. when you make meat and potato soup/stew what do you choose?

>>8138394
Lurk moar faggot. There's one reason why tripcodes exist and this is it.

Unlike this /soc/ thread >>8138431, and the 'fml' guy.

Again: lurk moar and lrn the difference.

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>>8138763
you missed my question
>>8138705
is this an accurate portrayal of the average butcher

To be a little more serious, I'm going rabbit hunting once the season starts, do you have any experience with these creatures? I was thinking rabbit stew, never heard of any other rabbit dishes.

>>8134306
Depends where you are in the UK, also.. Supermarket butchers are usually not very good look for an independent, which means usually outside of a city unless you get lucky.

E. G. https://www.thegingerpig.co.uk/ some of the most useful guys, pricey but very good. Have branches in city's and the countryside

You will find farm based butchers and smaller operations way more open to cutting and butchering options, and it will be cheaper outside of major cities.

>>8138779
Got it. Sorry I didn't provide a better answer from the first time you posted.

When I'm making a a meat and potato soup I actually tend to go with with bottom round roast or a rump roast. Bolar roasts are good too, but I grew up with bottom round roasts. They're inexpensive, and they have just enough fat for flavor. They're lean enough to offer a good quantity of meat, and within 8 hours of stewing, it'll shred right apart and mix in well with the potatoes and any other goodies I threw in with it.

>>8138785
Sorry mate. I must've skimmed over it. I never played DotA, so I can't say that I've ever felt like saying anything Pudge did in the game.

In my shop we actually typically try not to draw additional attention to ourselves while we're working; lest the customers try to prattle on with us for a long duration.

Getting to your more thread-related question, I've had experience with rabbits, yes. Typically rabbits are cooked as stew; they don't often provide a large quantity of meat, and their anatomy is such that trying to make special cuts from rabbit is almost pointless. If you really wanted to grill some rabbit leg or rabbit breast, I guess you could- but in general, stew it down. The other dish I often associate with rabbit is cacciatore, which is also an option if you'd prefer.

>>8138806
Thanks for weighing in!

How the hell do i do a simple beef stew OP? without it being too watery? everytime i do a stew it ends up tasting horrid, i don't know what to put in it

>>8138394
>The one undeniably good and useful thread on /ck/ at the moment, even if a lot of the questions are repeats of previous threads
>Calling someone out on a legitimate use of tripcodes
>One of the few good tripfags I've seen in nearly 10 years of wasting my time and sanity on 4chan
>OP isn't even shilling his shop or some brand

-3/10, try a lot harder next time.

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>>8139388
Not OP, but I use this. Holy fuck is it packed with flavor, and it helps to thicken the sauce.

>>8139403
Cheers for the advice, can i use bisto gravy sauce? and know any good recipes for beginners that doesn't take a long while to do?

>>8139405
>bisto gravy sauce
I've never had that, but I looked it up, and it appears to be the same thing under a UK brand.

>know any good recipes for beginners that doesn't take a long while to do
Generously salt a chuck roast, and then sear it in olive oil on all sides. Set it aside, and sweat the onions in the grease. Put the meat back in the pot, add potatoes, water, and rosemary. Bake it in the oven at 325F for 3-4 hours, flipping midway. Remove the meat and potatoes, add the gravy granules, and bring to a boil. Slice the beef, and plate it with the potatoes and onions, and pour the gravy on top.

>>8139425
cheers for the help :) will try and do that in the following week

>>8135892
Im going to disagree with you.
Heres how i base manual labor fees in my work.
Responsability// you can only fuck up a cow carcass, people not getting their stuff on holiday... both aint a biggie
Complexity of the job// no prior skills nor special skills needed to not fuck up a cow carcass
Special tools to do the job// knives, fridges and a clean room

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>>8138763
>You are right though- veal is a lighter color; so it's possible that you got a cut that was from a younger animal.
>It's hard to say for sure though- especially since I cannot see it!
Thanx for your explanation and insights!
I could take a pic of the raw meat but my phone camera doesn't pick up red too well so it wouldn't do much good. Plus, to my untrained eye it was just as red as the usual raw beef.
This is a pic of the cooked meat. It would appear to underdone but the following post will show that was well done. I'd almost describe as pork-like if I'm honest. Though infinitely more tender. Maybe some veal got mixed in with beef and I just got lucky. Dunno.

>There's also some differences in how they're treated and fed- but that's not an expertise of mine, unfortunately. I've never had the pleasure of raising my own livestock for slaughter. I could ask around if you're interested in that portion of the life of the animal.
This something that I'm incredibly interested in, for a wide range of reasons, but I wouldn't ask you to do my research for me. But if you could possibly link to some reliable reading material from people in the know then I would be eternally grateful and name my first born in your honour!
To qualify my interest I'll say that I wholeheartedly believe that 'you are what you eat' (on a molecular level) and the same applies to every animal, and that reflects in the animal's flesh. A cow that eat grains will undoubtedly have different flesh than a cow that eats a natural diet of grass, and I think it's even possible that might have contributed to my latest batch of meat as well. Though it is something that I've thought about for a long time now (before this batch of meat).
Sorry, I know I'm rambling at this point but you've touched on a subject that's close to my heart and I would be extremely appreciative if you could provide some insightful reading material on the subject if you're able to, please...

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>>8139548
..lol character limits! All I wanted to add is that I'm particularly interested in which suppliers feed their stock grains or grass, though I understand this information may be hard to come by. I'd love to simply read about what cows are being fed in general. Anything on the subject really. Though I don't know what I can do to repay you.

Here's my well done steak. I forgot what else I wanted say now. But holy crap this steak was delicious.

>>8138660
>but what you're doing by field dressing is saving a lot of weight for the return trip.

Another key point: when you field-dress an animal you are also letting it cool down much faster. That helps preserve the quality of the meat as much as possible as well as preventing spoilage.

>>8139528
I guess I can see why you'd look at it that way.

Here's my rebuttal:

Responsibilities:
Provide properly cut, trimmed, parted, cut, and tied meats. Know the anatomy of beef, pork, veal, chicken, lamb, turkey, and assorted game animals. Be able to answer landslides of questions from your customers, such as cooking times/preparation, similar cuts/exchangeable cuts, and more. We are also responsible to special orders- which can be quite more difficult than a standard cut. I took an order last night where a customer wants specific dimensions to their product. We'll have to pick through the pool of product that we have in order to get their order right, or we'll have to cut down some of our already finished product to meet his dimensions if it does not already exist. We also have to account for the size of the piece as it is so we can visualize the end size once it is trimmed properly- all without losing extra weight (as weight is money) to the scrap bin. As for your "not getting stuff for holiday" comment, when you miss an order for a holiday, it's likely that you won't be seeing that customer again due to your inadequacies of preparation and follow-through for a customer's needs. When they leave, they could take friends and family as well- so holiday orders are a HUGE importance.

Complexity of the job:
Extensive apprenticeship to teach the basics of knife handing/knife skills, knife grips (generally only boning and cutting; but there are some others that need to be used), learn to properly french bones, learn the anatomy of more than 6 animals and how everything fits together. Learning the intricate details of the bone structure for each of these animals is actually pretty difficult. Boning isn't as easy of a job as it sounds, nor is parting out a side. We also need to learn an extensive number of cuts (even if you're a grocery store meat cutter), and know what other countries call their cuts.
(continued)

>>8139528
(complexity of the job; cont.)

In addition to knowing what other areas call their cuts, you also should be familiar with their specialty cuts and to try to learn as much as you can about how their cuts are produced. Some countries use cuts that cross multiple subprimals- this is not really done in the US, but if you have someone come into your store, you should be able to either replicate that cut OR offer then something that would have the same characteristics, similar taste, etc. It's much more complicated than meets the eye and it takes a long time to gather all of this eclectic knowledge.

You also need to get familiarity with using a variety of machines. Cubers are easy- won't fight you on that. Grinders, however, take a while to get the consistency right and to get your weights figured out. Additionally, you need to learn the proper techniques for grinding: veal, lamb, beef, pork, ham, chicken, etc. For example: when you're making meat for tacos, a different grinder head is typically used (more coarse) than when you'd be grinding some other products. We also need to learn recipes for store-made meatloaves, hamloaves, meatballs, etc; but I digress from the machine aspect. We also need to learn to use the grinder for our sausage stuffing. Making sausage is a lot more difficult than it looks. Any slight change in speed can cause the delicate pork casing to rupture, which obviously leads to negative product appearance or to repurposed goods. The patty machine is also simple, so no worries there. However, the bandsaws (or hydraulic saws at some places) are incredibly difficult to learn to use properly. Since the saw moves so rapidly, it will try to pull product in toward the blade. We call this "letting the saw take the meat"- when it happens, you get uneven chops, ratty looking chops, diagonal cutting lines for some products, and a slew of other issues. The blades must be folded a certain way once removed for cleaning (cont).

>>8139528
(yet more complexity)
The blades must be folded a certain way once removed for cleaning (which is also another responsibility in the shop; and a LARGE one at that) assuming your sink area is too small to accommodate the full length of your cutting blade. The disassembly of the machines for cleaning is also difficult depending on the machines you're using. My first job was more simple, but when you have to strip down most of a machine (and get into the gears for lubrication, etc.) it can get a bit more complicated.

Special tools:
There is actually a rather large number of tools we work with that you might not realize. You are correct that we need knives. However, there are boning knives (5 and 6 inch, task pending), cimeters (10 and 12 inch task pending), butcher's knives (8 and 10 inch task pending), breaking knives (typically 8 inch), cleavers, honing steels (coarse, medium, fine, polishing), sharping stones (coarse, medium, fine), boning hooks, butcher's saws (hand saw), band saws, cubers/tenderizers, grinders (table top and full size), patty makers, etc. Like you said, a refrigerated room is also a necessity. The clean room is probably the hardest thing to maintain though- as sanitation in the US is some serious business. Evening crews/cleaning crews are not always adequate- meaning that the cutters must also know the full in depth cleaning procedures to avoid complications from inspections.

That being said, this is a very brief look into some of the knowledge, skill, and some of the necessary tools for a proper shop. I'm sure I forgot some things along the way, but as you can see, it's a bit more complicated in general than you might have thought it to be.

>>8139548
I'll check a book or two that I have laying around after work to see if I can pinpoint some extended learning for you anon. It won't be until after 10:00 EST though; I get to close the shop down today.

>>8139563
The steak looks good to me.

>>8139576
This is completely accurate.

>>8139794
>I'll check a book or two that I have laying around after work to see if I can pinpoint some extended learning for you anon
Many thanx, if it's no trouble. No need to tell me anything that I can't find on google but if you're privvy to some links or info that's inside the loop then I'd be grateful if you shared.

Have a good day at the office!

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>>8139807
I didn't find a lot in my book, but here's a snippet of information for you anon.

>>8132059
When cooking chicken fillets on a pan, should I use butter or oil? And why.

>>8139772
>>8139794
do you recommend people grind their own meat?

Sorry for the delay in posting, it's been a pretty hectic past couple of days.

>>8142795
When I was younger, i was always told to use an oil when I was cooking chicken. It has to do with the possibility of burning the butter while you're cooking. Since oils have higher smoke points (especially grape seed oil), it is less likely to burn them away while you're cooking.

I'm not a chef, so I'm only going by what I've been told over the years.

>>8144529
If you have the money to purchase a grinder (don't get a cheap electrical one, they often don't function well [if at all] and you tend to regret your purchase), then I would say that it's definitely not a bad thing to have around. If you don't trust your local stores to give you the quality product you're paying for, a grinder lets you buy exactly what you want and grind it down. For beef and pork, make sure to pass it through twice before using it. This gives a better mixing consistency of fat to meat. In general though, the less you process your meat the better.

Short answer: If you have time to learn basics of grinding and money for a grinder, I do recommend having one.

If you have questions about grinding, let me know.

I was wondering what cuts of meat are best for roasts, and what kind of things you can cook with them?

I've only started cooking recently, but I have a lot of free time so I've gotten into roasts.

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>>8132059
I couldnt find larger image of OP's diagram, so I tried to make one.
https://www.uaex.edu/4h-youth/activities-programs/docs/Meat%20Identification.pdf

>>8141283
This is great! Thank you very much for posting that.

It shows, quite conclusively, that smaller independent butchers are a much better option than supermarkets for aquiring meat. Both, from a product quality assessment point of view and also from an ethical point of view.

Thanx again.

Sorry again for the delays here- I was away all day yesterday and I'm just on my lunch now.

>>8145782
Good roasts are as follows: chuck roast (shredding for pulled beef), bottom round/rump (typical crock pot roast- enough fat for good flavor, and economical purchase), bolar roast (similar to rump roast; but from chuck primal), and sirloin tip roasts (for roast beef).

If you want more information about the roasts I will give you some more info later. Sucks typing out on a phone.

>>8146406
Thanks! That's fantastic.

>>8147383
No problem bro. Some small farms and independent guys don't do it right either... but most of us try hard to keep traditional practices of high quality of product and good treatment of animals (when applicable) in place.


Any more questions for me /ck/? I'll answer them as soon as I get home from work.

>all those americucks and eurocucks who don't know anything about meat ITT

>>8145148
>cheap electrical one
Does a grinder attachment on a stand mixer count?

>>8132059
Have you ever had any trouble from people upset that you were selling meat? and not that the meat was bad or anything, just the sheer idea you would sell meat.

How's the demand for offal?

>>8137090
I was trying to figure out which story to tell you and I happened to have a great one from today behind the counter- so here it goes.

>> Working behind the counter finishing up a whole tenderloin to cut for an order.
>> Customer comes to counter to collect their tenderloin. I greet them pleasantly as usual.
>> Customer wants to add some meatloaf mix to her order.
>> Calmly explain that due to new Federal regulations that we are no longer able to produce meatloaf mix (or other mixed-meat items).
>> Met with extreme prejudice- "You'd better just give me what I want, I'm A PAYING CUSTOMER!" (Starts making a huge scene)
>> Ma'am, I'm afraid it cannot be done. Our shop can't break the laws in order to please a customer. You would also have trouble buying this product anywhere else in the area, as the law took effect 10/01/16
>> "You jackasses can't be serious. Give me what I want or I'll call the GM"
>> GM gets called over - "Ma'am, I'm afraid he's right. It is completely illegal for us to produce this item for you. We can sell you the components in small portions for you to make it yourself, but we cannot grind it together for you."
>> "Some GM- sounds like you're just as much of a shithead as the rest of your employees. You'll be hearing from my lawyer!"
>> 5 minutes later customer returns, "I've called it all in and my lawyer will be pressing charges. However, if you give me a discount on my tenderloin, I might be willing to forgive you."
>> Manager (essentially) tells her to fuck off and take her meat with her- as it's the last product we'll ever sell her.
>> Bitch is getting blacklisted...


In all seriousness, it's not the first time we've had customers do this shit either. They all throw temper tantrums when an order cannot be completed (due to a ridiculous request most times. Either that, or we got shorted product that we needed to make their order). I just don't understand why customers get like that. But hey- makes for a good story.

>>8149445
If you've got a Kitchenaid mixer I've heard that they work pretty well. I've never used any grinders aside from table-top grinders or commercial grinders other than a brief use (less than two pounds) with a Kitchenaid during my youth (I can't really remember how it did because I was so young).

I'm sure there are good models that work well, but it's hard for me using what I've used to want to step down from anything that's dedicated or grinding/sausage making. I'd say to check the reviews if you're looking into getting one and your mixer has the possibility to grind meat for you with an attachment.

>>8149467
I have. I've had customers try to shame me for the guilt of killing animals, of slaughtering innocents, of "raping" animals, etc. However, I remind them that it is the volition of their own neighbors, not my own, that keeps me in the business to do the "dirty work" that I do. Without their neighbors, I would be out of business- so the next time they want to try to shake me down, they should talk to their neighbors first. When I tell them that, they usually get really pissed off and walk off.

I had a wanna-be PETA person try to stall me out too one time. That went 'really well' for them. The guy next to me cut (if memory serves) a thin piece of sirloin off of a fat cap and proceeded to eat it raw in front of them- they began to cry and ran away saying something along the lines of "this is a monstrosity!". Good times.

I've had religious issues as well- especially concerning having beef in the case or pork in the case. However, they're usually more willing to listen to the fact that other people have different beliefs, and they're entitled to those beliefs.

>>8149470
Demand for offal in my area is moderate with exception of tripe.

>>8149815
>5 minutes later customer returns, "I've called it all in and my lawyer will be pressing charges..."

>literally threatening a business with legal action because they told you that they can't legally make meatloaf mix

What the fuck is wrong with some people? It would've taken every ounce of patience in my body to not jump over the counter and throttle the bitch.

>>8149835
>I had a wanna-be PETA person try to stall me out too one time. That went 'really well' for them. The guy next to me cut (if memory serves) a thin piece of sirloin off of a fat cap and proceeded to eat it raw in front of them- they began to cry and ran away saying something along the lines of "this is a monstrosity!". Good times.

Kek, reminds me of a fishing guide who was being harassed by a peta-type -- The peta guy asked the fishing guide what he felt when he barbarically rammed a sharp hook through an innocent fish's mouth and the fishing guide simply shrugged and said, "the drag slipping".

>>8149835

Is it any cheaper to buy a shit ton of meat and grind it myself? What cut should I buy? I have to imagine I am being upcharged for the grinding service when I buy ground beef. My theory is that ground beef would be cheaper per lb if I ground it myself.

How do you feel about being replaced by robots and computers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZIv6WtSF9I

How do you make a sweetbread taste good?

>>8132059
Why the fuck are flank steak, skirt steak and brisket so goddamn expensive now? Not ten years ago I can remember skirt steak being ~$3/lb. where I live and you had to go to the Mexican butcher to find it regularly. Now it's fucking $8/lb. and every grocery store has it.

Are there no cheap cuts of beef left?

>>8138763
If it's not beef it's not real Irish stew.

>src: leprechaun faminefag

>>8150143
I can definitely say that I was getting rather pissed off with her dickering over something as ridiculous as us not breaking a FEDERAL LAW for her. However, you've got to keep that straight face and professionalism in play to keep the show going on.

Two of our guys went out back to smoke after she left even though they didn't get any of her fire/impatience/annoyance directed at them. Said something akin to "shit's toxic, man" before heading out their drags.

>>8150154
Nice. I'll have to keep that one in mind for my buddy that is a seafood manager at a local store. He'd love that.

>>8150186
If you don't mind buying a grinder, you could definitely get some savings. A good grinder typically runs you more than $500 though. If you get a top of the line Hobart table top grinder it'll be something closer to $5,400 without shipping/taxes. Shit is raw though. I don't have one for my house, but I've worked with them before.

Theoretically, you'd also want a model with a foot pedal so you can keep your hands working while the grinding is happening to keep the process moving along quicker.

I'll give you a local example for pricing: a shop I know gets their chuck rolls in for approximately $3.00/lb. Their ground beef is regularly around $4.59/lb, but when it's on sale, it's $3.19/lb - you're not saving a whole lot by grinding yourself, but you'd definitely be saving some.

Higher scale places around me definitely make top dollar on their grinds, so it's possible to pad your pockets with grinds... ESPECIALLY if you're buying it when it's not on sale.

The cut to buy depends on what you intend to do with your meat. The old adage "ground chuck, ground round, ground sirloin" referred to the content of meat as well as the fat ratio in the grinds (chuck is 80-84%, round [general bottom round] is typically 85%-88%, and sirloin [requires light trimming] generally yields 90-93%).

I hope this helps!

>>8150193
The programs work pretty well, it is true. However, their process is not perfect. There's often bone in boneless pieces, bone fragments in combos (they have these systems for more than just lamb), and other issues too.

While it'd be foolish to say we're not super worried about automated cutting machines, I can tell you that there's a reason there's still people like myself employed at shops: we get the job done right, and we're also making pieces for individual orders. Machines process to a certain extent, but it requires (as of now) a skilled hand to finish it out.

>>8150213
I have no good recipes for sweetbreads. Unfortunately, my relatives who were chefs and bakers took their recipes to their graves. They had them all memorized and refused to write them down...

I'm sure there are plenty of good recipes online though. I know Gordon Ramsay has shown some sweetbreads on his shows before, but he also mentions they're very tough to cook properly.

>>8150274
Celebrity chefs and people being more interested in smoking their own meats and being foodies in general has increased in the prices of many cuts. The other thing (and the larger factor for most of the cuts aside from flank and flat iron) is that there was a feed price hike about 5-6 years ago. That's when many of the cuts started hiking severely in their prices. We also had a food shortage one of those years, and we've also been having inflation on the USD. Additionally, the minimum wage has gone up in that time as well as the cost of keeping a meat cutter around. When one of the local stores pays to keep a meat cutter around, other local stores often raise their prices of their prepackaged meats to be similar to the cost of the store with meat cutters. It's simple economics- everyone will pay similar prices, even though most of those stores have a lesser product than the other...

There are other factors in play too, but these are probably some of the more important factors.

>>8150274
I can say, at least in my area, there are not many cheap cuts left. The sirloin tip is often left out of the loop for pricing, as most people don't end up using it. Another cut that I can think of that is still moderately cheap is the bottom round. Some people cut them down for steaks... they're about as tender as the price suggests though. Ox neck meat and ox tail are still somewhat inexpensive around me, but unless you're making soup, those are of no consequence.

>>8150536
Thanks for this. As I've said before (and I'll say again) I'm not exactly a chef de cuisine, but I do know a bit- so I appreciate your tid-bit about traditional Irish stews only containing beef. I'll keep that under my hat for the next guy.

Cheers.

>>8150768
>A good grinder typically runs you more than $500 though. If you get a top of the line Hobart table top grinder it'll be something closer to $5,400

If he's only going to be grinding up meat occasionally for home use he might be better off with a hand crank meat grinder. I've processed close to 100 game animals (deer and wild pigs) over the years using an old hand crank grinder that clamps onto the edge of my countertop. You can get a good one for well under $100 and it should do just fine for the average person. It will also take up MUCH less space than an electric meat grinder when not in use.

>>8149835
>If you've got a Kitchenaid mixer I've heard that they work pretty well.

I can weigh in here. I have a Kitchenaid mixer and I've been using the meat grinder attachment for years.

It works very well for small quantities. If you want to grind some meat to make some burgers, a meat loaf, or a small batch of sausage (say, up to 10 lbs) it's great.

The downsides are:
1) It's small. It's tedious to use for larger batches. I've used mine to make 50+ lbs of sausage at a time and frankly that's a lot of effort.

2) It takes proprietary blades and plates. You're quite limited as far as hole sizes go, and if you need replacement parts you must get them from kitchenaid. In contrast, just about every other meat grinder has a "# size" and uses generic parts that you can get from just about anywhere. You can also get finer or coarser plates to suit whatever you may be doing.

3) While it is useful as a single-pass meat grinder, it's horrible for 2nd grinds or as a sausage stuffer. The throat of the grinder is so small that it's difficult to feed the meat into it. That's not so bad when you're feeding unground pieces of meat. But it is problematic when you're feeding sausage mix through it.

>>8151084
This is true if the meat is for occasional processing/grinding. A manual hand-grinder is always an option. I think Weston has some tinned models for less than $50 that would be decent.

I took >>8150186's approach as one of wanting to buy a lot of product at once and then grinding it all down at one time (he said a shit ton, so I made my grinder recommendation taking that thought into account (I figure a 'shit ton' is more than 50 pounds of grinding at a time for a homeowner. However, it wouldn't be the first time I literally ground a ton [a full 2000 pounds] of meat at work in a day).

You definitely do have it right about the space requirement for storage. Those table-top grinders (electric) take up quite a bit of space when they're not being used- especially if you're getting a full-metal model which cannot really be condensed.

>>8151117
Thanks for your testimonial in regards to the Kitchenaid grinder attachment.

Saving this from page 15

Is this even the Food & Cooking board?

>>8132059
what the fuck is a flat iron steak

also what should i be buying for cheap goulash cause i feel like stew beef is a scam

I went to war with the tabletop grinder yesterday.

>Asian woman (of course) with 8.5 lb pork shoulder picnic
>"NO SKIN! NO BONE! YOU GRINE!"
>okay
>"YOU TAKE FAT!" (pointing vigorously)
>yeah, okay

So I slice off the skin and debone it, chunking up the meat, cutting off any excess fat into a separate pile to run through the grinder at the end to push out as much meat as possible.

Throw the meat in the grinder and it's coming out all mushy and wormy. Goddammit, WTF? I know we had issues with our ancient tabletop grinder because of broken parts and such but they replaced it with a brand spanking shiny new one, so I didn't expect to have any problems. (and No Shit, these things cost $4,000 or more) Should've known better. My guess is somebody didn't put it together properly after they used it and the grinding plate wasn't snug up against the blade.

Rule of Thumb: If you didn't put it together? Check It! Take it apart and put it back together again if you have any doubts. I always, ALWAYS do this with the saw even when I put it together myself. Before I use the band saw, I turn it on and listen for any odd noises.

>>8152889

You done good, anon. Threads like this shouldn't be pushed off the board.

>>8152889
I appreciate the interest anon. As a general rule, I don't bump my own threads unless I'm posting in response to new content. On rare occasions I'll give my thread a single 'last call' bump. Aside from that, it's up to anon's interest to dictate whether the thread stays active or gets pushed off the board.

>>8153891
The flat iron steak is a steak that is taken from the shoulder clod (part of the chuck primal of the animal). When the flat iron is cut, it is essentially cut into three pieces. Two thicker exterior cuts and one (useless) thinner cut that is riddled with tough bits.

The flat iron is a griller's steak, though it is often marinated rather than rubbed with herbs. It is a tender piece of meat, though not as tender as new york strips, fillet mignons, delmonicos, etc. When cooked right, however, it is a wonderful steak.

As for your question about stewing meat:
Stewing meat is often the cost that it is because it is made up of a variety of cuts from the animal. As a meat cutter goes throughout his day, he is left with scraps from a variety of roasts and other cuts that he cannot use for his cases. This (often) ends up as stewing meat or tender tips if they're a nice enough cut, otherwise they head to the grind bin. The reservation of "tenderloin tips" should only be used for literal fillet mignon tips- though stores often do not follow this marking procedure and limit "tender tips" to be the only tips you can buy; thus causing people to believe all "tender tips" are fillet mignon. Bad practice, really. However, I digress.

The cost of these cubes come in to play because of the variety of meats that can be used for them in addition to the fact that the cubes will begin to age as soon as they're cut- even though you might not have enough of them cut at that present time to make a tray or package of these cubes.
(continued)

>>8153891
>>8154288


At my store, our price is consistent and we cut all of our cubes from certain cuts (typically pieces from the round primal) all at once so that we can ensure the quality and freshness that the customers demand. That, and it makes sure that our cases fill up quickly instead of having random parts of it blank for hours of the day... Like the old butchers said "you can't sell black" (referring to the color of the interior of the cases and reach in areas in the store that are only visible when there is no 'red product' available for purchase).

As far as your question is concerned for stewing cubes, the easy answer is this: get some variety of roast from the round section of the animal- bottom round, rump roast, eye round, and some even say top round (though I generally avoid this cut). The only exception to this rule would be getting a bolar roast (from the chuck section of the animal) and cutting that down for cubes. Just remember that there will be a section of it that will need to be cut out (you should be able to see where it is from the side of the meat when you buy it- if not, it will become apparent if you cut the meat in half).

Whatever the cheapest roast of that mixture is, go for it. If you have more questions, let me know.

>>8154051
My store no longer does special grinding requests due to a law that is coming into effect. However, I have plenty of similar stories from my time working.

Getting worms from the grinder is a bunch of crap- whoever is cleaning should know how to put machines back together. They should at least take note of how they came apart... if they can't put them back together properly, they might as well leave the parts out beside the grinders on a sanitized towel for someone to put together in the morning. Like you said though, the old adage is definitely to check it if you didn't do it yourself.

The band saw is my biggest fear for errors in cleaning. I've seen a blade jump off the saw before... never again.

>>8132059
Whats your favorite beef cut to throw on the bbq?

As a general rule of thumb, what are some of the best "bang for your buck" grilling steaks? I usually go for NY strip because it seems to be cheaper than some of the really premium cuts but is still tender and tasty. What are some other cuts of meat that I should watch for in the sale section of my grocery store?

>>8132059
Would you say your line of work is desirable
Would you recommend it to someone looking for a career
If so, how would they get started

>>8154308
*place gently

>>8154308
If I'm doing a bbq with a lot of rubs, seasonings, and a long cooking time, I like to cook beef ribs. If I'm just grilling for quick eats with a quick rub or herbal coating, I find myself doing sirloin cap steaks and porterhouses.

>>8154335
New york strip steaks are definitely a premium steak though. Fillet is ranked first, then delmonico, then porterhouse, then t-bone, then new york strip. The order with the porterhouse/t-bone and new york strip are only in this order because the porterhouse has a big fillet mignon attached to a bone with a new york strip on the other side. The t-bone steak has a smaller fillet attached to bone and a new york strip, and the new york strip (obviously) is just by itself.

I'll probably say it in every thread, but dollar for dollar the sirloin cap steak is an amazing bit of meat. It's tender, juicy, has good marbling, and is a very versatile cut. It also makes great tender tips. I know people who are very well to do who use them for their sirloin steak cubes for kabobs as well, if that's your thing. Even the regular sirloin steak is a pretty good piece of meat. I guess another good cut (though not a steak) would be the boneless short ribs. You'll often see these and they can come from a variety of places- but if you're willing to put the time into them, they make amazingly tender beef bbq. If you happen to see beef spare ribs or beef baby back ribs, those are also tender, though I can't guarantee a good price everywhere in the US. I know we sell them pretty cheap because we're taking them off of other sections of the animal...

Most of the steaks are often priced accordingly to their tenderness though, so it usually is safe to say that the more expensive it is, typically the better the steak is.

>>8132059
Hi butcher!

I may be wrong about this, but I think there is some kind of USDA standard numbering scheme for wholesale cuts of meat. Where would I be able to find a reference to that? Or what is it actually called?

I sometimes place orders with my local butcher and there has been confusion because the people who answer the phone are the ladies who work at the front counter rather than the actual butchers themselves. I figure I can avoid confusion if I can look up the exact code for what I want and then call in that order.

Specifically, I am most interested in short ribs. If I understand correctly the standard wholesale pack is 4 slabs?

>>8154336
I enjoy my work, and I find it to be great. As someone else mentioned in one of these threads, talking shop is one of the best parts about this line of work- as it can be physically exhausting and mentally tiring depending on clientele.

If I'm being honest, I'll tell you that most of the meat cutters I know are one of three things: overweight, alcoholic, or grumpy. There are exceptions to these traits, of course. Some of us are very satisfied in life and have things pretty good, but often you'll find that because it is trade labor the characters you work with aren't as predictable as you would find in other fields. Often teachers are very similar from one to the next, and the same with instructors. However, butchers and meat cutters seem to be all over the map- so depending on who you're working with you might have a better time in the trade than others, but you could end up in a hostile work environment (been there, done that- I'm in a better place now in my current position).

Taking all of what I said into account above, I would still say that it's a good career if you don't mind working hard, being pretty independent of other workers, and boning up on your cooking times and skills. My cooking is still my worst area, as I haven't learned all of the ways to cook everything and I don't have all of the times memorized for every piece of meat; but I'm getting there. The other thing you'll need to learn is substitutions for cuts if you don't have what the customer is initially looking for available. It's called "suggestive selling", and can be your best ally if you're actually working in a butcher shop rather than a grocery store. However, the suggestive selling (despite what some believe) isn't our way of trying to pigeonhole people into buying something they don't want/need, it's trying to make sure they're happy and accommodated for in their shopping.
(continued in next post)

>>8154435
Around here it seems like NY strip is in the $9-$10 range, T-bone $11-$12, and fillet $16-$19.

Yes, NY strip is still a premium cut but it is on the cheaper end of the premium cuts and still has close to the same qualities as the more expensive T-bone and porterhouse.

>>8154458
Shit, forgot to mention that those are per pound prices...

>>8154336
>>8154454
If you're looking to get into the field there are two things to consider: 1) Do you want to be a butcher, or 2) do you want to be a meat cutter?

If you want to be a butcher (more difficult in modern times), you have to find a place that still practices traditional butchery with beef halves, quarters, and full beefs. This is uncommon to find, and could be tricky to get into. However, if you're interested, you often have to offer your time to shadow and help around the place you're trying to get into. The other possibility is that they might be looking for a "meat apprentice" or "meat journeyman"- this would be clutch for someone trying to get into the field. It means you're interested in learning, and know that you'll get bitch work, hard work, and work odd/hard hours; all for less pay. It does, however, let you into their world and learn from professionals who have likely been practicing longer than most of the millennial generation has been alive.

If you want to be a meat cutter (grocery store cutting), then you'll have to look for a store that is looking for people in their meat department. You might have to work as a clerk while you're learning all of the skills required on the side from some of the cutters in the back. When a job opening occurs for "internal hires", you can work your way into the meat cutter position. The other possibility is that the store wants a meat apprentice (just like a butcher shop would). This would be ideal for you- as the pay is better than counter workers, and they're typically fairly lenient with you when you do something wrong (as you're still learning).

Whatever route you take, it would probably be long hours, inconvenient hours (until you're ready for regular cutting), and the annoying tasks until you have proven your abilities. If you have access to charts (I have plenty, let me know) start learning the anatomy of the animal as well.

I can go into more detail later if you're interested. Just let me know.

>>8154451
There is a system in place by the USDA- but many shops do not use their ordering system, especially since we can also order meats from Canada and Mexico (amongst other countries). Unfortunately, none of the stores I've worked for have used the numbering system. I've tried to get materials about it to learn it, and I think our corporate library might have some on file... I could check into it if you'd like.

When we order, we actually use the subprimal names "blade roast" (chuck roast) "top butt sirloin" (sirloin) "beef knuckles" (sirloin tip) "beef foreshank" (heel meat) etc.

If your shop actually uses the numbering system, then it would be easier to make the orders go through- but most of the people I know that have run into that ordering system have been from California... I don't know anyone in my home state or neighboring states has used the system at their shops that I am aware of- but I'm sure that some of them do...

Typically the short ribs are made into "value pack" sizes because you wouldn't want a chance for something like that to turn/not sell when the date expires. By having moderate sized packs available (family size or enough for a moderate serving), we're providing adequate amounts for two people to share or to have a little extra leftover. However, when a grocery store gets short ribs in, they're getting them in cryo-vacs that hold multiple short ribs in one bag (typically two short ribs from our supplier). That way you could get quite a few pieces cut from each one- probably leaving you with 10-12 pieces of short rib per pack (depending on how they cut at your shop, it could be more or less). If you're talking about boneless short ribs, that's a bit too complicated to talk about due to the variety of places they come from in the animal...

We sell 4 pieces per package to customers here, but I can't assure that for every store.

>>8154458
Legit. Prices sound about right. >>8154466 I had a feeling it was per pound.

The Butcher will be out until approximately 11:30PM EST. I've got the late shift/cleaning shift today.

If /ck/ has any more questions for me, continue to post them in this thread while I'm gone and I will get to around to answering them when I get home. If the thread expires, please save your questions and post them again in the next thread.

As always, thanks for your questions, stories, and interest in this line of work.

>>8154504
>they're getting them in cryo-vacs that hold multiple short ribs in one bag

Yes, that's what I was referring to. My butcher gives a discount to customers that buy an entire pack like that. I order the whole pack, have the butcher bone them out then grind the meat for hamburger. (IMHO short rib makes by far the tastiest hamburgers, though sometimes it can be a little too fatty). I then use the bones to make stock. Rib bones aren't ideal for stock but why throw them away?

anyway, it sounds like I was not understanding correctly and there is no industry-wide numerical system that all butchers use. Thanks for the insight.

>>8134306

What are you on about, pork belly unsliced is easy to find, all the butchers here sell it and they even have it at morrisons. I am pretty sure tesco has it from time to time as well.

I have a few minutes here at dinner, so I'll get back to the first post I saw.

>>8154602
A lot of people seem to favor the short rib meat lately. It's definitely good though, so we don't complain about boning it out at my store either.

Your butchers might use the codes though, so it might not be a bad idea to figure some of them out. What I would learn if I were a customer would be the subprimal names (for example, boneless beef outside round/flat gives you bottom round roasts and a rump roast). That way when you're working with a meat cutter you're going to get exactly what you want regardless.

Let me know if you need any of the subprimal names with their common names beside them. I'll have to check our office for subprimal codes tomorrow morning if you wanted the numbering system though.

Why are 100% pork hot dogs (IE no other meat in it but pork), rare to impossible to find in the US?

>>8155853
I really don't have a good answer for this. I know there's a local shop that makes all pork burgers (they call them "bacon burgers"- it's all ground pork with bacon slices on top). I can tell you that I was told by an old butcher that pork and anything else that ends up in hotdogs was originally added to cut the beef with something that was less expensive. That way the people making hotdogs could make bank on their product without having to sacrifice extra product that they could use elsewhere for more money.

Hotdogs actually have a pretty serious past though- their predecessors were sold at important events such as Maximilian II's coronation to become to King of the Holy Roman Empire and other such events.

Then again, those were a different variety of sausage, but eventually those same roots bring us today to the hotdogs we have now.

At any rate, you should be able to order some from American Homestead, through Marx foods, from Nicolosi Fine Foods, through Jimmy P's Butcher and Deli shop, from Heritage Berkshire, and from Applegate Natural and Organic Meats. They're all expensive though, so if you're really looking for a quality pork dog, there's definitely a price to pay. I think that all of the above use Berkshire pork (a highly rated pork).

I'm not sure why more people don't make it with regular pork, but I suppose I'll never really find out. I don't intend to start making hotdogs, as sausage already takes enough time- so they won't be coming from me if you're looking for lower-priced 100% pork hotdogs.

Let me know if you find anything else- I'd be interested to know more about the 100% pork hotdog market... It's definitely not a specialty of mine!

>>8156328
I asked because I have moved to USica from ye olde Europe, where pork hot dogs (or pork and veal hot dogs) are alive and well. I can't find pork hot dogs here and beef ones are goddamn terrible. I wanted to know what history there might be for the preference for horrible-ass beef hot dogs when pork and pork-and-veal ones are both better-tasting and cheaper to make.

I've taken to making my own fake-ass hot dogs at home that are pretty good, but I would happily buy ready made if they were even a third as good as mine because making them myself is a pain in the dick. Real cheap to make myself, but ain't nobody got time for all that.

>>8157632
I'm not really sure why the pork and veal hotdogs aren't really a thing in the US. All pork hotdogs should be cheaper, that's for sure- but veal is a moderately costly commodity here most places.

You are right that hotdogs aren't complicated to make, they're just time consuming and somewhat of a pain in the ass. I don't have equipment at my house to make them, so I guess I'll just have to bit the bullet and pay the premium price sometime so I can try out these all-pork hotdogs that you speak so highly of.

I liek beef ribs.

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What's the best way to slow cook a brisket in an oven? What sort of preparation should be done?

>>8159494
I don't often cook briskets in the oven, really. I'd say the best way to make them in an oven would be low and slow. Preparation work would include a light trimming of the brisket (if it hasn't already been done) and to also apply whatever rubs, seasonings, etc. to your brisket shortly before the brisket is put into the oven.

There's definitely plenty of good recipes for slow cooking your brisket in an oven online. Since I'm still at the office and can't write one of my recipes out for you, that's what I would recommend.

>>8132059
My understanding is that beef is female flesh and veal in male flesh, but what about pigs? Are there any cuts that are better depending on the gender of the animal? Like pork chops from females but bacon from males?

What kind of exotic meats do you carry? Animals you can't find at the local grocery store like Bison/Buffalo.

>>8139755
>>8139772
>>8139794
Thank you for the lengthy response.
Im not going to talk about technicians in some field.
Responsabilities: As you put it and as i said, you have NOT to fuck up a carcass.
Complexity: As you put it, there is a lot of learning involved, as many other jobs require, plumbing, electric fgt's, ac technicians all of those have a nice learning curve.
Special tools. just for the sake of argument im going to give this to you.

(cont.)

>>8162981
NOW, i want you to look at this extreme example of what im trying to convey.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-sIdppyaPQ
That is still considered manual labor.
Responsabilities: 1 human life.
Complexity: Several stages in the process AND as a bonus, its required (way) above average hand/eye coordination. That valve must be 2cm in diameter. And a lifetime of learning and practicing.
Special tools, A clean room, string and some tiny knifes.

You know, i dont make the same money as a heart surgeon and im ok with that, because seeing the big picture helps me to put things in perspective.

>>8132059
>The butcher is in- feel free to ask any questions

Last night I bought a boneless NY steak from the local market, broiled it for five minutes a side (thick steak)... it was tough, the meat from that market is always tough... why is that?

Do they buy cheap beef? Do they rely on customers who don't care?

>>8159494
If I'm not going to smoke a brisket for some reason then I'd make corned beef with it. I prefer to use tongue for my corned beef though, so I'd smoke the brisket every time. A smoker is basically an oven, so you can use pretty much any recipe you find online, but you'll have like 50% of the flavor at best.

>>8139528
>>8162981
>>8162994
You're either an eight-year old or have the mental faculties of an average cretin. Which is it? My bet's on cretin.

>>8163707
>cant think of a rebuttal
>better call him a cretin, that'll show him.

Even the butcher, whom one may think is emotianally invested in the subject, gave a much better response.

>>8132059
what's the best/most tasty part of pork?
same question for beef and lamb

>>8132059
which cuts are good for grill parties AKA not too expensive but good enough, and what makes sense to grill if at all? (Beef)

>>8163963
Try beef chuck and short ribs, both have very good fat content and flavors

>>8163987
thanks, /butcher/!
cheers fella, have a good day and may your profession become a bit more popular again.

Just wanted to give this a little bump and let the butcher know that I always enjoy his threads, and I learn a lot even though pretty much all of the knowledge doesn't really apply to my line of work these days as I'm a baker. If we could find a candlestick maker we'd have one a hell of a thread, though.

>>8164677
I made a candle for my mom once.

>>8162722
The gender of the animal does not typically play a role in whether the meat is tastier or better for certain cuts. That comes out of what the life of the animal was like and what types of feed they were given. Typically the meat we eat comes from the males of the species though because the females serve other purposes (milk, eggs, breeding, etc.), and it only takes one or two strong males to create the next generation of whatever animal is being bred.

Veal is merely a young beef (several classifications), and the typical beef we eat is a matured animal (an 'adult' beef).

>>8162764
We have bison in stock right now, and I've heard that we've carried ostrich in the past- but I've never seen it...

>>8162994
I never said that a butcher or meat cutter should be making (on average) anywhere close to $530,000 a year. However the butcher's average pay is $31,000 a year to provide entire communities with the substance that they need to survive. I know that in my area this number is closer to $40,000 You mentioned electricians and plumbers- both of which makes more than 50k on average for a skill set similar to a meat cutter.

I'm not here to argue what jobs are more important, and I'm certainly not here to tell you that medical specialists and meat cutters deserve the same money- because I never once said they did. I merely mentioned that meat cutters and butchers are probably underpaid and deserve a slightly higher pay caption.

>>8163003
It would be my belief that your market is carrying select beef, which has a light amount of marbling and is tougher than choice meats. Local farmer's markets are not always subject to such grading, and as such, lower graded meat can be sold there because it is not regulated.

I will answer more questions when I get home from work today. Sorry for the shoddy response time, I've been rather busy the last few days.

Great info, alwayd love The Butcher's threads

>>8163857
Cretin it is, then.

Tall ma: whet are your responsabilities at the group home you lave an? Or as at ell tooken care of by the nursang steff so long as you don't took your protactave halmit off?

what do you think about fat co tent in sasuages ? i make my own , and i would like to know if you make your own sausuages

>>8163868
It depends on how you're making it. I find that pork shoulders are absolutely delicious (pulled pork). There's enough fat, meat, and bone to really mix well for a good flavor. Pork sirloin chops are pretty good too though!

When considering beef, I would say that rib cap steak is one of the most tender and delicious cuts. However, if you're looking for more common cuts, for its price the sirloin cap steak would probably be my favorite (for a variety of reasons).

I would probably say that the best lamb cut is the traditional lamb chop. There are more expensive cuts and more tender cuts, yes- however, the loin chop is consistent, flavorful, and tender. You also get quite a few chops per loin- which is nice. If you're cooking it slow or for a group, a leg of lamb is a great choice as well.

>>8163963
If you're smoking meat for your grill party, a brisket would be a great option. The cost is low when you buy a whole brisket and the flavor is wonderful.

Another good choice is the short rib. Available in both boneless and bone-in varieties, either offers good quality meat that is delicious and tender when cooked properly.

If you're looking for a steak to grill on the cheap, I'd look for sirloin steaks. It's probably about as cheap as you'll find for a grill-quality steak. Some people may argue top round steak or bottom round steak (sometimes called western griller steaks) are good enough for the grill, but I would advise marinating them first to help break them down before hitting the grill to maximize their tenderness.

>>8164677
Glad to hear you've been enjoying these threads. I have been having fun making them and helping people as I can. It's also a learning experience for me at times too, as there are people who ask questions or terms that I am not familiar with in my local area- so I've learned a few more synonymous cut names and some cooking stuff over the years too.

>>8166604
Much obliged.

>>8167538
There's two ways to think about sausages:
1) Do you want your sausage to be lean?
2) Do you want your sausage to be juicy and flavorful?

While a lean sausage can have good flavor and be juicy, fat is flavor. When you have extra fat in a sausage (to a certain extent, of course), you get more overall flavor and more juice as you're cooking.

I typically consider a good sausage to have ~80% meat and ~20% fat. However, there are certainly exceptions...

Lean meats often use more seasonings to get a good flavor- whereas a well-made pork sausage only needs salt, pepper, and some sugar. However, to each their own- I know people that use closer to a 93/7 ratio for their sausage and people that use closer to 60/40... they can all be good- it just depends on how you make them.

I make sausage every week at work. I don't make them at home though, as I've yet to buy myself a grinder for home use. Since the new federal regulations have effected our grinding schedule and abilities at work, however, I'll probably buy myself a grinder so I can make whatever I want at home.

>>8132059
What would be the best cut to use for an oven baked dish with seasoning and herbs? I've tried pork butt and shoulder but they were not as tender as I thought they would be. Also, any particular beef cuts that would be great when oven baked then seared?

As always these threads are amazing. Thank you.

hey butcher man, second year culinary student here
how much more do you guys get paid than line slaves? I'm starting to enjoy meat fabrication and was thinking about maybe getting into that after school. Feels a lot more chill and I don't mind the paperwork at all its pretty easy. And I do have a pretty healthy salumi obsession that's for sure.
I've got some other really exciting opportunities but I keep thinking about that 11 bucks an hour I'm making.

>>8168377
>I typically consider a good sausage to have ~80% meat and ~20% fat. However, there are certainly exceptions...

I'm not >>8167538 but this is interesting. So what makes a good burger (80/20) also makes a good sausage. Is this the ratio your shop uses for their sausage? I was thinking 70/30 would be a common ratio for sausage. You know how butchers are: throw as much fat in there as you can to increase profit margins.

>>8168432
It depends on whether you're looking for beef, pork, veal, lamb, etc. If you're thinking about doing beef, a top sirloin roasts and top loin roasts are delicious if you've got some coin to burn. If you've loaded, just go with the whole beef tenderloin trimmed and tied as a roast. Shit is cash.

If the expense weighs on what you're buying, a tied top sirloin roast should be applicable for most budgets. I think you can still find them at a decent rate- especially if sirloins are on sale.

>>8169194
The average meat cutter or butcher makes between $12.45 to $14.75 an hour (last I saw national averages). That nets around $31-33k a year. The longer you're in, obviously the more you make. Some of the older guys in the business are making excess of $25/hr; leading to $52k+ a year (plus bonuses, overtime, etc.). It's definitely not one of the best paying jobs, but it is certainly enough to pay the bills. I have some things I do on the side too in order to stack additional income. Such is life though.

>>8169164
Many thanks.

>>8169262
The ratios we use depend on the type of sausage we're using. Our turkey is probably close to 80/20 or 85/15 because we're using boneless skinless thighs for our meat. If they're too fatty they get trimmed down. Our chicken is closer to 93/7 to 95/5 because we use boneless skinless chicken breasts for our grinding meat. If we did beef, we would be doing 80/20. Larger batches made, more fat content, more flavor, and more profit made. It's not all about the profit as the old adage would have you believe- but we obviously do need to make sure that our blend is good for the customer, but also keeps us in our jobs.

Making sausage isn't quite as straight forward as it seems like it should be, but those are the general rules we follow in the sausage making process.

It's quite possible to find 70/30 for sausage; we've got to keep a certain edge though due to the variety of clientele we serve.

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Hello I cooked this for lunch but it's only my second time ever cooking steak, is it too raw?

I liked it

>>8169754
thanks man, I'm looking at all my jobs for the foreseeable future as a part of my education, but man that debt is just not pretty. I've heard people talking about doing little catering gig's for rich folks for big easy $$$, have you ever heard of anything like that on your side?

>>8169975
Yea

>>8169975
No. You can make it as raw as you want m8.

>>8169975
idk it's a pretty shitty pic, did you like it?
That's all that really matters in the end.

Great thread op

>>8169975
It's never too raw if you enjoy it cooked at a lesser preparation. Some people eat pittsburg rare or black and blue- literally using a torch to sear the exterior of the meat and eating it with a cool (or cold) interior temp.

So long as you've enjoyed it, it's cooked well enough.

>>8169989
There's always side jobs to be done (so long as it doesn't go against your employer's policies). Some of the people in the profession make bank on the weekends.

More specifically for the meat market, it's possible for a meat cutter or butcher to buy a case at (x)% over case cost and then they can part it out/trade with neighbors for other goods (or just straight sell it to them). However, with how quickly you accumulate money doing this, you would theoretically need to report the additional income on your tax return or else good ol' Uncle Sam will catch on to your "new income" and it wouldn't be pretty.

I know a few guys that sell cases of meat every month to their neighbors and probably net another $5-10k a year doing so. They also save whatever meat is left from facing all of the steaks and repurpose some of it for their dinners, thus their consumption costs are lower for the year too (yes, his neighbors know that he does this and it is accounted for in the rate they're paying).

Do you only deal with butchering mammals or do you process and sell sea food as well?

>>8172563
I am only a butcher of legged animals (sheep, pigs, goats, cows, chickens, etc.).

Typically butchers are not associated with processing and selling seafood. While I do know a few that are specialists in more than one field, I am not one of those people... I do, however, know quite a few people who work with seafood if you had questions I could bug one of them.

Dear Butcher,

You're pretty cool, thanks for the thread. Thankfully the 'bacon on everything' fad is over with; what do you think the next meat style food trend will be?

Also, if you're breaking out the grill for a little tailgating, which do you prefer, polish sausage, brat, or a beef hotdog?

>>8173386
Bacon on everything is still super popular around where I live. However, artisanal crafts, meats, and cheeses are starting to gain rapid interest in my area- specifically charcuterie. While I am not sure what the general market will be interested in, I can say with some confidence that I believe that foodies will be flocking toward artisanal meats (whether it's organic, free range, hormone free and air cooled, etc. or some variety of charcuterie, local product, grass-fed, etc.) in the future.

I know our farmer's markets around here are selling product without even grading it and making top mint on their items. I've had it from quite a few of the farms- rarely is the grading over standard. However, since it's local, people are eating it like it's the only thing that will keep them alive through a famine. Our local charcuterie shop has hanging beef in it that is cut down and put into cases fresh. They then also take certain cuts and turn them into various smoked and cured meats for their display cases.

As far as a tailgating preference between the meats you've given, I would probably have to go with the bratwurst.

>>8173386
>Thankfully the 'bacon on everything' fad is over
About ten fucking years ago.

This is very very helpful!

Thanks The Butcher!

lol does anyone remember that random anon aging his meat in a mini fridge?
anyone ever remember what happened with that?

>>8175534
My pleasure anon.

>>8175664
I didn't catch that thread... I would have enjoyed watching someone try to do it at home without professional equipment. It would have been neat to see the final product.

Can anyone else weigh in on what happened with the mini-frige aging experiment?

I posted a few threads back about wanting to learn the craft, I work in a meat shop and I'm a clerk who happens to be interested but not really training for it.

I've sort of determined that I don't want to stay in this business long enough to really learn from a butcher, as the money isn't terribly good and I'll be changing jobs within the year. I want to get into hunting one day, would this be a viable way to learn how to break down an animal?

Has being a butcher changed the way you look at your own body, and are you able to self diagnose some personal injuries more accurately as a result of knowing the anatomy of differently shaped mammals?

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Is there another cut of pork chop that's as tender and juicy as the blade end? They are very hard to come by sometimes.

>>8177334
>blade end chops
Is THAT what they're called in English?
We call them what would translate into English as "under shoulder" pork steak because they're cut from a piece of meat found just under the bone of the shoulder.
I've been living in the US for over a decade now and no one anywhere I've gone sell them already cut, I couldn't recognise the primal by sight for me to cut it myself, and the two butchers I've asked about it have told me "there's no meat under the shoulder bone, what are you talking about?!" or something else spoken with similar incredulity.
I've had the /worst/ luck with butchers in this otherwise pretty awesome country.

>>8177419
They're called a bunch of different names and the supermarket labels all just say "pork loin chop" no matter where from the entire loin it was from. Thankfully they're easy to recognize from the multi-coloured meat.

>>8177419
It's the rib end of a boneless pork loin, also known as chef's prime. It's my favorite part of the pig. I typically use it as a roast and to make pulled pork, although it is equally delicious cut down into chops. I like to call them 'breakfast chops' and eat them with eggs and baked beans with toast or a bagel but that's just my own personal nomenclature.

>>8177451
I like to cook them simply and flavour it with salt, brown paprika, rose paprika, freshly powdered dry onion, oil and dill.
Your way sounds good, too, but I couldn't eat something so heavy at breakfast.

>>8177428
I occasionally find them in 10lb packs of mixed pork sold at Save-a-Lot. They range in price from around $9-$15, depending on if there's a sale or not.
When I find a pack with a lot of them in there, I buy it but since SaL doesn't have a butcher on premises, instead cutting everything at the warehouse and shipping it to the stores from there, no one in the store can answer any questions about it for me.

>>8177513
Your way sounds good, too. And I understand your pain re: Save-a-Lot. It shouldn't be like that but that's the nature of the grocery business, these days. I'm sorry to say that a guy from Save-a-Lot has a prominent role in the grocery chain I work for. We have knowledgeable and helpful associates but there is an increased emphasis on part-timers who, while being friendly and engaging, don't know a piece of meat from their asshole.

>>8166714
Im not blue collar, you silly.

>>8150213
crust them with semolina flour, fry/sear them for a few minutes until golden in a good amount of oil, and serve with demi glace

>>8169999
quads of retardation

>>8175664
iirc it turned out great, he researched it well

Maybe you won't know, but I just went hunting and got a deer, processor asked me if I wanted pork fat or beef fat added. Venison )especially where I am) is too lean for me, so what's better? Beef fat or pork added?

>>8177798
Pork fat, unless you have some weird religious restriction. It tastes better than beef fat and is easier to digest. I butcher my own deer and grind my own meat and sausage and I only use pork fat.

>>8178023
Thanks Anon

>>8132059
Thank you for taking the time and being so helpful and kind. You're a good person, OP.

I had the pleasure of growing up on a small farm, and my dad does raise a small herd of cattle still (around 6 to 10 cows at all times, and less than ten calves/feeders/whatever-to-sell or eat). So the family gets a cow butchered every year. The butcher does the whole cow, dry ages appropriately, and will cut everything up to requested specifications. If you could make any requests of the butcher in this situation, what would they be? And is there any process in raising the cattle that you prefer (grass / corn / etc.). Right now, they are mostly angus stock raised with the mother and then weaned with grass or alfalfa hay depending on the time of year, and fattened with corn/milo mix and sometimes apples in the fall.

>>8177798
>>8178023

Herve This (french food chemist) claimed in one of his books that most of the animal's flavor is in the fat. Like if you cook a pork chop in lamb fat, the meat is gonna taste like lamb.

Going off that, I would probably keep the sausages lean or have him harvest as much venison fat as is possible.

>>8178633
>harvest as much venison fat as is possible

Far be it for me to disagree Havre, but I must. Venison fat has a very unpleasant flavor. It also goes rancid very quickly. You want as much fat trimmed from venison as possible.

t. Deer hunter that butchers his own deer and harvests the liver, heart and tongue, so not a prissy eater.

>>8178700
interesting, did not know that. thanks. I'll bet your sausages are great fwiw

>>8139563
you know, Im more of a rare steak myself, but that does look yummy

Great thread butcher. very informative. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

is it more expensive to buy from a butcher. if so by how much and are there any perks or any reason to do this

>>8177059
Typically you learn the anatomy of the animal before you start processing, but it is possible to learn to process deer and their anatomy from harvesting deer over the years. Typically people only look for backstraps and loins for specific cuts, and then there's "steaks", "roasts", "jerky", and "stewing" cuts from a deer. So long as you get the backstraps, you're pretty much in the clear for deer. It's really evident where they are too and a few YouTube videos could probably get you there. Make sure that you're only cutting when you have to for their removal and pulling it away the rest of the time- that saves the most nicks/damage to the backstraps along the way.

>>8177090
In reality, it has. Obviously not all of the parts intertwine and not all of our muscles and bones are given the same strain as those of a moving beef, pig, etc. However, there are certainly similarities that apply. I must also note that I studied anatomy when I was in school, so perhaps my view is biased.

>>8177334
Looks like this has already been fleshed out, but what you're showing there is often called the chef (or chef's) prime. Typically used as a roast or for boneless country style ribs in my area, they are indeed tender, juicy, and delicious. If you like pork chops and don't mind buying a whole piece if need be to get what you're looking for, ask for a whole boneless pork loin- you'll get center cut pork loin chops and the chef prime on the other end of your loin.

>>8177419
'Under shoulder' pork steak? I'll have to keep that in mind. Cheers mate. Sorry to hear that our US butchers have done poorly by you in regards to knowing English names for cuts. There's so many darned names for the cuts even by our own classification that it's hard for us to pick up on other places' cuts as well.

>>8177731
It definitely is possible to do- just difficult for most people. Glad to hear he made out alright.

>>8177798
>>8178633 has a valid point in the matter, as I was also told that the type of fat associated with what you're making also gives its flavor to the mix. It has been the thought process in my area for years.

While>>8178633's point about the fat is correct by my knowledge (which could be marred, I speak only from what I've heard and practice), the reason we add the fat to the mixture is because venison is so dangerously lean that it is difficult to keep the meat together when it goes through the grinder. Pure venison has the possibility to crumble as it comes through the grinder due to (sometimes) it's low fat factor. In grinds fat can also add its properties as (essentially) a binder to keep the meat connected. While it is possible to have pure venison sausage, most people will cut it (add another meat/fat) for the sake of keeping it all together.

For this reason, I typically go with >>8178023's advice. If someone wants beef, I do it. However, most of the time customers will ask for pork (typically a roast, not just the fat) to be added to their venison. Another angle I was given is that you can add bacon to your burger/sausage and that will give it smoke flavoring as well. I've never done it- but I've heard about it...

>>8178700
Some people have a distaste for "game", as it is a protruding flavor in the culinary world. While some get the gamiest meat possible, others will attempt to avoid that flavor by ditching the fat. I've heard that the meat goes rancid quicker when a larger fat content is left on, but I cannot confirm- as I only process the meats for friends and pass them along. My venison never lasts long enough to turn...

Using offal and "variety meats" is also a pretty awesome thing. I believe you and I would get along pretty well. Keep harvesting, and good luck this season!

>>8180127
My pleasure anon.

>>8178341 - I will get to you in my next post.

>>8178341


>>8180243
It depends on where you are, and the quality of meat you're expecting to get from your butcher. Sometimes butcher shops are local boys with meat from their farm(s). Not even graded meat, just animals they're harvesting themselves for purpose of sale and feeding their family. Some butchers pull in their meat in a graded fashion (standard, select, choice, prime, etc.) for sale for their customer basis. Obviously, the higher the grade the higher the cost. The benefit of going to a traditional butcher shop is that they have to use the entire animal in a certain timeframe- so you know you're always getting fresh meat from their location. Any sales of spoiled/worn meat will be a negative blemish for them, and they want to avoid these whenever possible.

Most of the butchers I know are marked pretty fairly in terms of what it costs in a store versus from their small shop. Some of them are cheaper, some of them are more expensive. However, most of them go by current market pricing and a slightly lower percentage of overcharging in comparison to a grocery store.

Like I said though, some of the butchers will charge more for the "mystique" of going to their specialty shop, and also because they needed to buy a whole beef (or a half/quarter, I guess) and that shit is difficult to part out in a few day's time...

>>8178341
That sounds like an awesome childhood. Seriously important agricultural skills were learned. You also learned to deal with death, harvesting of animals, and farm-to-table mindsets. My family history would have had me in a farm, but my grandfather left the farm for "a new life". Alas, I can only imagine your fortunate experiences. However, I digress.

For me to answer your question about requests from the butcher, I just need to know if you're killing your beef before it goes to the butcher or if he kills your animal (some butchers do the slaughter portion too, but it is uncommon).

Let me know and I'll get back to you after work.

Any more questions for The Butcher /ck/? In the mean time, thanks for the questions, stories, and your input in the culinary field. It's been a lot of fun.

If there's no other interest for the thread, this will be the thread's only bump from me. In that event, thanks again for your participation and your interest in my field.

-The Butcher

>>8182282
How often do you make these threads? I see them every few months but these threads are the reason I keep coming back to /ck/!

>>8182282

What is wet aging? I understand dry aging

>>8182364
For a long time I'd only make a thread every couple months. I've had a little more free time than usual lately so I've been trying to do a thread every other week or so (on average). However, some of these threads last a long time, so sometimes there isn't a large gap between the death of one thread and the beginning of another.

I don't want to overpopulate the board with the same material time and time again though, so I try to respect other people's threads by not creating mine too frequently.

Thanks for your high compliment!

>>8182373
Wet aging is essentially aging meat in a bag (vacuum sealed, mind you). Since there is blood in these bags, it gives the meat a 'sour note' or 'serum-like flavor' (if the old terminology still applies). However, it must be noted that an extensive amount of meat that Americans buy is already (by technical merit) wet aged merely due to their shipment and holding procedures. Since so many stores order in vacuum sealed meats, it has given the American people somewhat accustomed to this "different" taste, which is why some people react so severely to farm-to-table meats; the freshness is not something that we are used to tasting anymore... we're used to sealed meats which have stewed in its own blood; rending our palates different than previous generations.

That is also why dry aged meats are often so special to behold- the beefiness of the steak is beheld instead of that of the 'sour note' of wet aged meats. Then again... a lot of dry aged meats were also wet aged first... just something to think about. Unless it's farm-to-table dry aged, you're not getting a truly *pure* dry aged steak. It's definitely something desirable to experience at some point in your life- I assure you.