Ask the Butcher

What is the cheapest cut of meat to buy at a grocery store?

>>8067302
Why are pork shoulder and port butt the same thing?

Why can't I find chicken necks and backs anymore? Or veal bones.

>>8067302
what's the new short rib?

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>>8067320
The cheapest cut of meat I've ever seen at a grocery store was shank meat. It's tough, but when used for stew you'll get meat and marrow from the bone to boot.

A close second was "assorted pork chops" which really means they're cutting them from one of the roast ends of the loin. Definitely edible though, albeit they typically have more bone than a standard chop.

>>8067322
The pork butt and the pork shoulder are essentially the same thing. The naming of cuts and pieces differs between stores, and is often confusing. Locally, the pork butt is a Boston butt while the pork shoulder is typically the whole picnic shoulder. Unless, of course, it is a boneless shoulder- at which point it could really be either...

The rear of the animal is actually used for hams- the butt, shoulder, and shoulder butt are all pretty much the same muscles.

>>8067336
We still have them locally. The veal bones are a bit more difficult though. My guess would be that you're living in an area where prepackaged meats are much more prevalent than having actual meat cutters or butchers around. This often causes a difficulty of procuring such items. Most stores won't order in necks, backs, or other bones because they don't think they'll sell well enough; that, or their meat providers don't stock them.

>>8067343
I've been seeing Flanken Style short ribs for sale lately- essentially it's the bone-in short ribs cut thinly so that meat is between each bone in a long strip (pic related).

If you were wondering instead about what some of the new hot ticket items are, let me know and I'll get back to you.

>>8067320

Last post I left out chicken- sorry about that.

The cheapest chicken cut I see on a regular basis are the leg quarters. This is largely due to the fact that they have a piece of the back bone on them. That fact is also what makes leg quarters and whole legs different and is what causes the difference in price between them.

I've seen leg quarters drop as low as ~$.60/lb for 5 or 10 pound bags in recent months for certain sales. At the price point, even getting it by the case wouldn't really be any cheaper.

>>8067302
What's the most annoying common request you get from customers?

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>>8067302
What's your favorite steak? Thickness? Weight? Bone-in? Fat trimmed or not?

>>8067370
That would be between two different requests, but I will tell you both of them.
1) When at the butcher service case "Can you cut these more thinly?". This question on its own is harmless, and we would be glad to help them. However, we have regular cuts (and thin cuts) already out in a case where customers can serve themselves. Our service case is specifically there for the fact that customers that like the thick steaks can get their fresh cuts straight from the whole piece (or on days that we have extras in there, they are ready for quick sale to make the customer's day go quicker).

2) When customers pick their meats thinking they know better than we do for what they should be and ask us to grind up whatever is in their hands in order to "save money" or get a "more quality ground meat".

Again, we are happy to do this to help put the customer's mind at ease. We really are. However, when you bring me a chuck roast and ask for it to be ground they aren't helping themselves in any way. Ground meats are cheaper than cuts in the case. Add to this fact that we already grind our meats EXACTLY as listed. Ground chuck is literally whole chuck rolls ground up into chuck burger. Ground round is literally outside (bottom) round flats. Ground sirloin is a combination of sirloin tip and top butt sirloin. We aren't trying to cheat anyone, and we definitely make sure that our percentages line up before they hit the cases.

That being said, when a customer comes back with a "special grind request", we then lose a perfectly good steak or roast that was put out their for the ease of a customer who needed that cut- not so we can grind the exact same thing that's in the case while using up product that was cut at the same time the case meat was ground...

It can be frustrating- but we'll do just about anything the customers ask us to do happily... especially knowing that we're making even more money by grinding that roast or steak for them.

>>8067361
Flaken style is more for Korean food. Galbi.

Is Ribeye cap worth the money and has the taste of chicken and pig actually changed

>>8067370

Just for your knowledge (and the rest of the board)- when you have a butcher or meat cutter grind your burger special and on the spot, they aren't going to put anything in behind it in order to push all of your meat out the end of the grinder. When this happens, your 2.5 pound roast has now turned into 2.25-2.33 pounds of ground meat because the grinder "eats" some of your product. Without putting something behind that last bit of ground meat, there's not enough pressure to assure that the last of the product will make it out into the tub or tray that we're grinding into.

We're not trying to screw anyone, it's just a fact of the grinding process. It's really often best to just buy the ground meats that are already out there (for everyone's sake). Unless, of course, you have an extreme specialty you're making.

>>8067400
Indeed. I just figured I'd mention it as a "newer" short rib cut because we didn't really have many requests for it at our shop until probably the last three years or so.

I figured since more foodies are starting to saturate the cooking market, it might have more purposes than just some of the Korean dishes. Thanks for the input- I'll keep it under my hat.

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>>8067302
In the near future I am going to start raising animals to butcher for myself. Do you know an resources for a noobie to start reading/watching to start? Mostly pigs and chickens if that matters.

>>8067302
Do you ever encounter worms in meat you have to butcher. I know it's super common in fish but I'm not sure how common it is in domesticated farm animals.

Do you think it would be profitable to buy a BUNCH of cut fat, render it down into tallow, and then sell the results, jarred up, at like...a farmers market or something? It's a hobby me and a friend have been bouncing back and forth recently

>>8067385
I could say some of the cliché steaks, such as hanger steak, fillet mignon, or strips/dels- but I'm not going to.

I think my favorite steak for its incredible variety of uses (pan frying, broiling, grilling, marinating for kabobs, etc.) would be the sirloin steak. The full sirloin though- it has to include the sirloin cap steak, or else it's not the same. I guess if I could be really picky, I'd just buy sirloin caps all the time. They have excellent marbling, they're tender, and just like the regular sirloin, it can be cooked in a plethora of ways and styles.

In general though, my ideal steaks are approximately 1 1/4 inches thick (1 1/2 if I'm cooking it to achieve rare in terms of preparedness), the weight is circumstantial depending on the type of cut, I typically cook boneless; as you cannot eat the bone and I rarely have time to make anything useful with my stockpiled bones from eating bone-in steaks. I also make sure to trim of the heavy fats, but I leave a lining of fat on everything I prepare.

>>8067410
Ribeye cap steaks are incredible pieces of meat. Think about the fat swirl you see on the delmonico. The meat above it is what gets chopped off as a ribeye cap steak. It's often done on the small end of the delmonico because the steaks start looking worse on that end. That small end is also where the ribeye fillet steaks are cut from as well... the remainder is put into the grinder.

It depends on what your local pricing is for them though for me to decide if they're worth their (typically high) price. It also matters if you're getting select, choice, or prime meat.

As much as I'd like to say that the flavor of meat has not changed, it has. Chicken that I used to eat when I was younger (yeah, I know "old people and their bs claims") that was raised on local farms tastes a lot different than the chicken does today, and same with the pork. I don't know how to describe the differences, but I can tell you that the meat was better then. Some of the newer (smaller) farms that are producing high quality meats remind me of the meat I ate when I was young though- so the meat can still be delicious. You just have to buy from a reputable source.

>>8067424
Unfortunately, I've never reared my own animals- so I would be useless for you in that particular area. However, I can tell you that an EXCELLENT author to read to learn more about slaughter and processing animals would be Adam Danforth. He has a series of books on the subject and they are incredibly detailed and also include photographs to give you an idea of what you're supposed to be doing. The only problem is that it's incredibly dry, and that I do not know if the knowledge works for people who are green to the profession... I only know that when I read them they were very useful. However, I was already accustomed to most of the ideas in the book when I read it; so I may be partially biased.

(cont. in next post)

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>>8067444
checked

thanks anon heres a burger I want to fuck

>>8067424
>>8067444


In my opinion, chickens are the easiest animals to learn how to take apart. I would advise starting to learn how to break down whole fryers (they're cheap enough that a few mistakes shouldn't break the bank while you're learning). That's what I stared with, and it's what I think every inexperienced individual that wants to learn how to break down animals should start with.

>>8067425
I have never once encountered worms in any of my products. I know people that have, but our supplier is known for their incredible QA and QC staff. However, due to work-related reasons/interests, I cannot speak much about our suppliers in public. We have an edge on our competition in that area, and I'd hate to lose it.

We have, however, had a few broken vacuum seals.

>>8067433
If you have an area that has a very poor supply of tallow or other rendered fats/greases, and you know for a fact that there are people interested in such a product, it would certainly be a viable area to work at. I know people around here want bacon fat/grease but are too lazy to do it themselves. My buddy used to sell mason jars of it for $20 a piece. I think they were 350-400 mL a piece. Since it only took 3 pounds of bacon to get it, and bacon was only $4 a pound at the time... he was able to eat bacon while still making profits.

Knowing that many butchers and cutters in my area (if it's a full-service shop) will almost GIVE away their fat trimmings so that they don't have to throw them away at the end of the night, there would be a great likelihood that if your market is right for selling tallow that you would be able to make some serious profit with your friend. The most I've seen fat sell for is $.50/lb locally- but I can't guarantee that you'll find the same results where you live...

>>8067450
Where is that burger from?

I work in a meat department as a clerk because I've always been interested in meat, I'm not learning much, but I have two questions. How is a meat cutter separate from a butcher and how do I learn how to split an entire animal? Slaughterhouse work?

>>8067392
>we definitely make sure that our percentages line up before they hit the cases.
How do you know what percentage of fat is in the meat? Is there a special way to measure or weigh it?

What's the most common work related injury you encounter?

What's the worst work related injury you've seen?

Don't really have anything to say or questions to ask but just saying that I'm lurking this thread and the answers are interesting.

>>8067468
Glad to see another person interested in the field. Perhaps someday you'll get a chance to delve into it a little further.

To answer your questions:
1) The difference between a butcher and a meat cutter is simple. The butcher is someone who is able to properly break down entire animals into their respective parts, while then proceeding to turn those parts into steaks, roasts, and other specialty items.

A meat cutter is someone who is able to take sub primal pieces (such as whole fillets) and turn them into the proper steaks and roasts. Most meat cutters are taught how to cut at a store from another meat cutter (much as butchers are taught by other butchers; though typically not in a chain store or grocery store), and only know how to cut pieces from the boxes their store gets in.

It's sort of like the mathematical rule of "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares". All butchers are meat cutters, but not all meat cutters are butchers.

2) If you're interested in learning whole animal butchery, I would advise looking for a local shop to see if you're able to shadow their butcher. Make sure it is a traditional butcher shop. You might have to offer to do menial tasks for free in order for him to want to help you. The trade isn't as popular as it used to be, and it's certainly as important as ever... make sure they know you're serious, and that you are willing to put in the time. They might give it to you.

Your other option would be a slaughterhouse- though most people don't have the stomach for it for too long... most will try to get onto the boning line or the processing line as quickly as possible.

>>8067473

In the olden days, beef percentages were *literally* decided by the butcher as he cut his meat. Whether or not the percentages were at all accurate, however, was another thing entirely.

In the modern world of boxed meats and prepackaged meats, most stores put out their product based on what the machines have told them their product should be labeled as. That's why you see so many of those 3 pound "tubes" of 81/19 or 75/25, etc.

It's also why almost every pack at Giant, Wal-Mart, and other large chains have almost the exact same measurement and appearance. I can all but guarantee that they're shipped in to their location prepackaged autonomously; all but completely by machine for their ground meats.

In my present shop, we have meats that are SPECIFICALLY for grinding. That way there's never any confusion as to what percentage you're dealing with. The box of meat shows up as "88% or higher" (or whatever the meat is supposed to be). At that point, we trim anything that appears unnatural, and we throw the meat into the grinder. This way we're sure that they're getting at least the percentage they're paying for.

There's still some guesswork, unfortunately, but it's almost completely cut out.

>>8067485
Thanks for your interest. If you think of something, feel free to post. I'll answer whatever I can honestly and as thoroughly as you'd like.

>>8067478
I knew someone would ask these questions eventually, so here we are.

Common work related injuries: Hand, wrist, knuckle, finger, and arm punctures/cuts from our knives. The other possibly common (though much worse) injuries that could be encountered are cuts from the bandsaw.

Of these, I only see light slices on a somewhat regular basis- though I've actually seen three hands go into the bandsaw during my time cutting meat. Only one was lucky enough to be married and have his wedding band save him from *serious* injury. Another individual lost function of part of his hand because he managed to nick part of the tendon that allows for bending the finger...

The worst injury I've actually seen... that's a tough one. I'll start by saying that some of the training videos I've endured were absolutely mind-bogglingly horrid. I saw a human being fall into an industrial grinder when either the support rail failed or he slipped on uncleaned blood (I forget which). They managed to stop the grinder before he died, but he had numerous broken bones, and either one of his hands or his feet was starting to pass through the blades- I remember seeing his limb peeled and some of it was missing down to the bone... Luckily I never saw it live-action with anyone I knew. That kind of shit is mortifying.

(cont. in next post)

>>8067462
>Where is that burger from?
I have no idea, but I would assume heaven

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Is pork a meme?

>>8067478
>>8067546 (You)

The worst accident I saw in person while on the clock was one of the following: when someone dropped his knife and tried to catch it while he was turning- he caught the knife, but bumped into the table beside him; thus running probably a third of the blade into his stomach (he weakly stated "hah, I caught it" upon doing so). He had to get emergency treatment and was sent to the hospital. He made a full recovery, but started wearing a metal vest after that.

Situation two was when someone cut off an entire portion of one of their digits on the saw. The blade was probably old, the bone was thicker than normal on the piece he was working with, and he was also tired from working part of someone else's shift the night before to help out the department. Triple setup for disaster, let me tell you. He was about half way through cutting the piece and he started to scream a blood curdling sound. We looked over to see him thrusting his hip and his free hand toward the emergency cut off switch. None of us were close enough to save him from what happened next, and it haunted one person into leaving.

We knew what was going to happen, because his hand became caught underneath the piece of meat that he was working with and it was only a matter of moments before the saw would pull him in (it's hard to understand how quickly this happens unless you've been there before). Since the meat was being pinned to the cutting table and the bade won't stop until about 2-3 seconds after the kill switch is pressed, we knew it was going to be a medical emergency from the git-go. In the end, he cut through one and a half fingers. He was rushed out, but not before he passed out and collapsed onto the floor. Shit gives you nightmares my friends. Every now and again I still see it when I go to bed at night...

Here's hoping none of you end up having that dream now that I've told the tale.

>>8067561
Pork can be delicious. It really can. Most of the people I know that make great pork are making pulled pork or pork BBQ. However, the best pork I've ever had was made using a technique called larding. Basically, the person preparing the meat cuts off the fat as per normal. However, once it's trimmed off, they keep it off to the side so they can render it down and later inject that same fat back into the meat they've cut it off of. It helps make for an incredibly juicy and delicious cut.

Bacon is probably one of America's favorite meats. More rather, pork-based bacon is probably one of America's favorite meats. Then again, most any piece of charcuterie that's properly made is delicious...

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>>8067574
What meat do I want for good beef jerky on dehydrator?

>>8067596
It can indeed be delicious but I feel it is inferior to beef in almost any application. In your experience would you say that most pork is bought by coloreds?

My mom used to buy something called Porterhouse steaks... apparently they're some kind of highly expensive novelty? What are they?

What is your opinion of meat glue?

What is your favorite non-meat dish?

>>8067627
Never heard of meat glue until now.

How can I make sure I don't buy any... glued meat? I'm in Canada.

>>8067600
I also would like to know the answer to this.

>>8067336
What do you use chicken necks and backs for... i just use them for stock i was wondering what other uses i could get from them..thx

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>>8067574
Good grief anon...that is brutal. Trapped under the piece of meat he was working on? How does that happen? Just from the pure weight?

Not OP, but I used to work as a meat cutter.

>>8067600
>>8067670
You can use any lean cut for jerky/biltong, but the best options are eye of round and top round. Flank steak is interesting as jerky too but more expensive. Most commonly in your local grocery store you'll find eye of round roasts and thick slices of top round (aka "London Broil") - buy the eye of round if you want to easily slice the meat with the grain, the top round if you want to cut it across the grain.

>>8067624
Technically a "porterhouse" is a thick T-bone steak cut from the round end of the loin, where the tenderloin portion of the steak is biggest, but sometimes you'll see "porterhouse" used as generic name for any t-bone.

>>8067719
Primals are bulky and have odd shapes, and you have to manhandle them into position on the bandsaw table, then slide them through the saw blade. I would assume the guy had his hand under the meat while getting it into position, and in his tired state automatically pushed the meat forward into the saw without thinking...

>>8067600
>>8067670

The answer to your question is going to be bottom round or top round cuts. When I used to make jerky when I was younger, I'd buy a whole bottom flat (or outside flat; whichever it is called locally for you). I'd make sure to trim off all of the exterior fat, and then I'd cut my meats into long jerky strips. Typically 1 1/2 inches wide and 6 inches long. The thickness depends on what you're looking for out of your jerky, but typically isn't more than 1/4-1/3 of an inch.

>>8067621
I think that beef (like its cost suggests) is almost always the superior cut as well. However, certain things are better with pork depending on what you're making for dinner. The association with any race and purchasing rates would be debunked at my store, as I'd assume at least 60% of our customers are caucasian; and many of them frequently purchase pork.

>>8067624
Porterhouse (and t-bone) steaks are delicious steaks that come off of the shortloin of the animal. The reason these steaks are so incredible is because it is made up of fillet mignon steak (the more circular-shaped side) and new york strip steak separated by a bone. I call porterhouses beef surf and turf. I wouldn't say they're a novelty, as they're frequently a showpiece in our cases and are frequently purchased by customers for their dinners.

>>8067627
I've never had any experience with meat glue personally. I'll ask around with a few friends to see if I can get you a little more information on the subject. Sorry I'm not more help as of present anon.

My favorite non-meat dish would probably be macaroni and cheese because it was a comfort food for me when I was a child and our family didn't have any money. During those times, it was a luxury item for us...

>>8067665
I'm not sure how I can help you with this; but I'll look into it anon.

>>8067695
I have only used chicken backs for stock- but I know people that use chicken necks and backs as bait in their crab pots. People who line fish for crabs also use necks for their bait for their hooks. From what I've been told, they work quite well.

>>8067719
What >>8067778 says is true. Manhandling is a daily requirement, and if you're too tired to think properly, it's not uncommon to run into concerns. It was an unusually large shortloin that he was working with, and the bone was also larger than usual. He had taken the chine bone off and had just faced the meat so he could get his square cuts. I'm not 100% sure how he managed to pin himself under it, but since shortloins are in a sort of rounded triangle shape, my guess is that he tried to put it through the saw backward and ended up having it roll back onto him. There's more than one way to cut everything, but there's typically one way that most people use for a good reason... The weight makes it difficult to get out from under a piece quickly, but the pinching action of the saw is what makes it dangerous.

>>8067778
Thanks for the assist bro. Legit information.

I know flanks are used for jerky some places, but I can't see using such an expensive piece for most people's usage. I'd never used an eye of round for jerky- but it's lean, so it makes sense.


-
I'm headed out for the night, but I'll be back tomorrow morning to answer more questions that you have /ck/.

>>8067811
>>8067778
Thank you to you both--this has been a high quality thread.

Can i make a special request for ground beef at different lean/fat percentages than what is found in the tubes?

Terrific thread, thank you The Butcher!

Aldi sell bacon offcuts for super cheap here.

What the fuck are they?

What do you call the cut of the front legs of the lamb in English?

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>>8067444
First and foremost, thank you for your service.

a few things.

Nice trips.

When speaking in Terms of Ribeyes and ribeye caps, Where does the delmonico come into play? I have always been told that the Delmonico is a thick cut boneless Ribeye, but correct me if I am wrong.

Do you have any thoughts about a Denver steak or the cut in its self?

I also completely understand what you mean about things not tasting the same anymore, The lack of flavor in things and quality of texture is something that I have noticed over time. In terms of steak, I try to buy Prime/Choice because I feel like select doesn't necessarily have the flavor I want. I notice when I don't buy Chicken and pork from High quality producers it literally tastes of nothing.

>>8068131
This is me.

I've also gotten into arguments with guests when we feature a 30 Oz shared Porterhouse in regards to the non tenderloin side, the argument always presents its self with people saying that the Striploin side is actually a Sirloin. I've always insisted that it is indeed a Striploin/Filet. Am I wrong?

>>8067302
gulash and chicken aside, I've never made a soup with meat.
What's the best meat I can make a soup with?

Is leaf lard popular enough that a butcher would just have it out for sale or is it something I should call ahead about?

>>8068324
leaf fat*
I'd like to render it into lard, duh

why do they cut out the meat between ribs in a 'V'? the grocery store sells 'beef ribs' missing a bunch of the most delicious meat.

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The butcher is in.

>>8067836
My pleasure. I'm glad I could be of assistance.

>>8067840
Depending on whether or not your shop is a full-service location or if you only have prepackaged meats, the answer would vary. Some meat departments (believe it or not) do not own grinders or meat cutters; only shelf stockers.

So long as your request is made somewhere where grinding is a possibility and a meat cutter is on duty (not the cleaners/stockers/etc.), you should be able to ask for a certain mixture. Typically it's easy to figure out 75/25, 80/20, 85/15, 90/10, and 93/7. 96/4 is possible, but most people have never ground it; which adds to the level of difficulty procuring it.

I'm also not sure how your pricing would vary at your local stores. I know we have PLUs for 80, 85, 90, 93, and 96 at my store- but I don't know many stores that have so many options.

>>8067891
My pleasure anon.

>>8067907
Bacon offcuts are essentially non-perfectly formed bacon pieces that also have a varying level of quality associated with them. You'd need to pick through the lot to find the best bacon; but for its price, it's typically not a bad deal. Typically bacon offcuts/cooking bacon/bacon scrap is the leftover bits from after the whole side of bacon has been cut down. I've never seen it or used it, but I have heard of it before. Hope that helps.

>>8068118
If I'm understanding your question correctly, it's the foreshank. I'll attach a picture so we're on the same page.

>>8068131
Ah, sorry. I should have specified more earlier. Delmonico and ribeye are more or less interchangeable terms. Typically ribeye delineates that the bone is still attached/included and delmonico often refers to the boneless variety of steak. Thickness does not matter for these cuts though.

The Denver steak/underblade steak is a pretty decent piece of meat. When it was first 'discovered' it took the culinary world by storm (in a few areas, at least). It is a well marbled cut, and it has good flavor. I've been told the most applicable thickness for the Denver steak to be cooked properly is between 3/4 of an inch to an inch thick. The secret to the piece (that most people don't talk about) is that it comes from the chuck roll. The chuck section is relatively inexpensive, but every Denver steak I've seen sold was pretty expensive considering... However, the market will always dictate the price- especially if it's a trendy steak.

If you haven't had one, give it a shot sometime. It's always worth a taste. If you like it, you could always get more. If not, at least you've had it.

>>8068137
The piece that comprises your porterhouses and t-bone steaks is called the shortloin. The shortloin is fillet meat (beef tenderloin) and new york strip meat (beef striploin) separated by bone. You are correct in this matter.

However, there is a divide in the meat where the steak is no longer called a porterhouse, and is considered to be a t-bone steak. If you cut the entire shortloin into 30oz steaks, there are going to also be some 30oz t-bones; which sometimes causes a ruckus with customers. A steak aficionado will know quickly when they have a t-bone vs. a porterhouse. It all has to do with the size of the fillet medallion on the other side of the bone. I don't have a chart on my computer to show where the divide is, but it's kind of up to the person preparing the meat for sale. Just make sure there's enough fillet for the customer to not complain.

>>8068181
If you're in the mood for ham and green beans, a ham hock (ham shank) is a great piece of meat to add in. It's a smoked piece of pork that will add some meat to the pot, but will also add a large portion of flavor to your soup.

The meat added to a soup is typically an economically priced item so that you're not "wasting steaks" for something that is traditionally an inexpensive meal. I guess if you're doing a beef vegetable soup you could use some bottom round or chuck meat. Chuck roast would be stringy and pull apart when it's cooked right; whereas the bottom round will break apart, but it will often break into more of chunks than stringy bits.

My friend's Italian/Greek grandmother used to make lamb and veal soups. You'd have to watch the seasoning on that though or it will overpower the delicate (though savory) flavors of these meats.

Basically anything you want as a meat can go into your soup so long as it's meeting the requirement of what you're trying to make for your soup.

Sorry it's not worded better or answered more concise- I'm just not sure of a better way to answer your question anon.

>>8068324
Leaf lard is a baker's dream. However, most meat shops you go into (unless it's a real butcher shop) would not have leaf fat available. It's the fat that comes from the "flare" (as it is sometimes called) of fat located around the kidneys (and some by the loin) of the pig. If your shop works with carcasses, call ahead and ask them to save some for you. They'll often be glad to do so, because most times the fat gets tossed out or some gets put into ground pork. Lard in general doesn't sell as well as it used to where I'm from- so the butchers haven't been as keen to try to save fat to render it...

If you call a regular store, they'll tell you "Sure thing! We'll get some of that fat for you"- but it is likely they'll give you typical pork fat trim rather than the leaf fat you're looking for... Most meat depts. honestly don't know the difference.

>>8068331
My store doesn't do that. We rarely end up with beef ribs, but when we do, we're separating the baby back ribs from the rib section of the animal- so we'll try to cut as close as we can to the bone, but there's no point in cutting between ribs to try to take additional meat off the bottom.

I only have two guesses as to why you are seeing what you are: 1) inexperienced cutters/apprentice learner; or 2) the store is maximizing their profits by collecting as much meat as they can in order to grind it for meat later. Some stores offer prime rib burger meat as a specialty. If your store is one that does this, that is probably why they're cutting out extra meat from your ribs.

Those are really my only guesses for you though. We don't try to take meat off the ribs at my shop- we just cut them as is. Sometimes the cutters get yelled at by management because there's "too much del meat" on the ribs. We want customers to be happy though, so we're not screwing with their products. They pay a fair price for the goods- so in return, we need to provide fair service.

>>8068633
> I'm just not sure of a better way to answer your question anon
you answered it just right, thanks man, cheers

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Hello Mr. Butcher. I have a question. Is this a fucked up thing to do? Or am I sticking it to the man?

>be me, poorfag, who works a LOT
>go to King Soopers
>get like 10 lbs of steak and 10 lbs of ribs
>go to self checkout
>hit the veggie button and click potato
>it asks me to weigh the potatoes
>put steaks on instead
>now click banana
>weigh ribs instead
>total bill like 5.00$
>leave with my potato steaks and banana ribs
>tell coworkers and bosses let's have a BBQ at the park
>I'll bring steak and ribs
>you guys bring beer and cooler and charcoal grill
>winning?
>or total douchebag?

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>>8068767
What's the best way to ask an American butcher for a specialty cut that's not generally available in the US? You guys either use it for mince or separate the cut among several primals. Do I have to buy a quarter for you to be willing to cut it out for me?
See pic related. I want number 7. It's an "inside" muscle, beneath 5 and 6.
I don't mind buying a shank and splitting 8 and 9 out myself (8 makes the best fucking potroast you'll ever have, ever), but 7 seems like it would be a hassle to ask a butcher here for because you don't have nearly as many primals as we do.

What's the difference between Choice, Prime and Angus.
Also is there a different rating system for grass fed beef?
I went to this organic market and they had all grass fed beef. I asked if it was choice or prime and they just said how it was "grass fed" and better than normal beef.

I hunt and and my dad and I butcher our own deer. basically we just go at it, and it seems to be a fairly self-evident process. we can usually strip a deer down and have all the cuts out in like 2 hours. are there any general tips you can give? it honestly seems almost too easy and we get almost as much meat as if we sent it to a professional

>>8068786
Cheers.

>>8069070
Essentially it's a shit move because it's what forces up prices on every item in stores across the country. The technical loophole you've used is one of the areas studied under the "loss prevention" caption. The person near the self checkout should have caught it, but they didn't (likely due to many younger employees not really caring about anything aside from their paycheck).

While legal recourse for such an action at this point is unlikely, know that in doing what you did (and many other people attempt to do or manage to do as well) the store will eventually charge more money per pound for the items they've "leaked". In the end, all the prices in the store will start to rise due to people doing exactly what you have done even though the price to obtain the item hasn't really gone up.

>>8069109
Some American butchers would be able to help you out if you give them specifics- especially if they own their own shop or it's a traditional butcher shop. The problem is that most shops that employ meat cutters and butchers do not have hanging meat... this cuts down on their ability to assist you in such a specialized cut.

I am accustomed to seeing charts similar to this; but I cannot say that I've ever actually needed to create any of the cuts from the South American charts or the European charts I've read (looks like an Italian chart that you've provided).

I think the main problem in the US would not be finding a butcher that would be willing to help you, but it would actually be finding a butcher that would understand how to deviate from his traditional cutting methods in order to procure the muscle groups you're looking for.

>>8069070
what the fuck answer are you expecting from this. you dont have to be a professional butcher to be able to tell you that you're a thieving fuck.

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>>8069158
In your first question two of the three terms you've used are grading specific. It also depends on what country your meat has come from. I'll attach a very simple grading chart for Canada vs the US grading system for a brief example.

Basically- the higher the grade of the steak, the more fat it has inside of the muscle clods. This is called marbling. The grading from highest to lowest is as follows (for US meats). Prime +, Prime, Choice, Select, Standard, Canning.

Prime has an abundant amount of fat inside of it and it allows for extremely tender, flavorful, and juicy meats.

Choice has a good bit of marbling, and allows for very tender and fairly flavorful meat.

Grading on the whole, however, is extremely complicated to explain- so if you have more questions, ask and I'll see what I can do.

As for your second question, I am unaware of any special grading system that applies specifically to grass-fed beefs. While it may exist, I am unaware of it based on the lack of demand for grass-fed beef where I am located. Sorry I am not of further assistance in this matter.

The reasoning behind organic markets saying "it's grass-fed" is because it's a very specific diet for the animal and it changes some of the growth aspects of the meat and its flavor. Typically, grass-fed meats are *very lean* meats- so I'm sure they didn't want to scare you away by saying "it's select grade!". While the meat is less marbled, it is often still tender (so long as you don't overcook it). The current market for grass-fed and organic beef is the lack of hormones and chemicals- so the price will be higher regardless of their grading.

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>>8069162
It's great that you and your father process your own meats. The general concept of removing meat from bone and cutting into roasts/steaks is a pretty simple task, it's true. However, deer processing is much less complicated than processing a beef, pig, etc.

With deer, you are only worried about extracting your venison. There are backstraps, steaks, and roasts. For beef, there are certain ways that each muscle clod interacts with each other to allow for certain cuts to be made. If you wanted to get super critical about it, you could make venison t-bone steaks, venison porterhouses, venison delmonico steaks, etc. However, that's typically not what people end up doing when they're processing game.

The amount of meat is likely to be similar to what you'd get when you take it to a professional, but the way the meat is cut and the type of steaks/roasts you get may differ. It's possible that you and your father have been experienced in the art for so long that it could yield similar results to going to a butcher to process your animal- which would be wonderful.

Were there any areas in particular with the processing that you would like some tips on? The picture related is a terrible representation of what I do; but I was trying to teach a friend more about processing his game. He wanted to do the bone cuts, so he brought out a traditional wood saw... the cuts might be a little haggard as well due to me directing him on how to cut without doing much of the work myself. That being said, his garage was also not the best place to be working on processing an animal.

Anywho- let me know if there's anything in particular about processing your deer you're interested in and I'll do what I can to help you out.

>>8067302
yo butch, best threads on ck.
What kind of cut do you use for burgers, i always add extra fat to chuck, which seems to be more fat than most people do.
Also whats an alright price for oxtails? My butcher quadrupled the price in the last 3 years and i feel sad and kinda ripped of, to the point that i dont buy it anymore.

>>8069232
I cant think of anything in particular. we just hang it by the leg and go at it with filet knives. I guess any suggestions about what to do with the meat afterwards or what to do with the body itself at any stage to help the meat taste good would be nice. usually we do it outside in late fall in a garage so its pretty fucking cold the whole 4-5 hours it takes from shooting it to having everything cut up.
any suggestion on fat in the cuts? venison is lean as fuck and my dad usually cuts excess fat off because he loves lean cuts

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>>8069319
Thanks anon. I try to help when I can.

As far as your burgers go, I tend to think chuck burgers and brisket burgers are two of the better choices as far as fat to meat and flavor are concerned. Whole briskets can get pretty fatty; but if you like that extra fat, leave it in.

Most people like 80-88% for their burgers. Some people like 73-75% for theirs. It's all how you like them to taste and if you don't mind paying for that fat.

The oxtails are an interesting predicament. Even book pricing for a regular grocery store has gone up in the past few years. I used to see tails for $1.99/lb years ago, now they're closer to $5.00/lb. The pricing book guidelines say to sell them at $6.00-6.50/lb; but some areas are higher and some are lower based on the demands for oxtail. Real butcher shops often are similarly priced, though some are lower due to actually having the tails in stock at their shop.

What's your local asking price lately?

>>8069320
One tip I can give you is that you should let your deer hang for a day or two before you butcher it. Leave the skin on, but make sure it's dressed before hanging it. If it's not cold outside and you don't have a cool area to store it during that time, then you are forced to cut it up the same day. The principle behind letting it sit out is that the deer tenses up when it gets killed. The muscles will relax due to natural enzymes in the meat within a day or two after it has expired. The rigor mortis effect will definitely leave you with less tender steaks, so if it's possible (cold enough or cooler to leave it in), let it hang for a bit before working on it.

For ground venison (if you do any), throw in some beef fat while you're grinding it out. That will help keep the burger together while cooking and will give just a little more juice and flavor to it.

(continued in next post)

>>8069348
>>8069320

I would leave fat on the cuts if you can. Think about how the beef steaks keep an outside trim of fat. That's ideal for cooking- if you can do it with your cuts, it would benefit your dining experience. Venison is already hard enough to come by, it might as well be cooked right and prepped right (right?).

Lean cuts do seem to be something that almost everyone seems to be interested in right now. I've had people turn down our prime meats because they think they're "too fatty". I think my favorite was "look at how fatty that is- there's even fat inside the steak. You can't expect someone to want to buy THAT!". Fat is flavor, friends.

I usually cut off to head right before I start working on the carcass. It's no fun to take a boney-ass head to the balls (depending on your hanging height). I then like to section out my animals. However, if you haven't been trained traditionally, I recommend starting with your tenderest cuts- the backstrap. Make sure you stay right with the bone and pull the meat with your opposing hand while you're cutting it. Some of the meat should pull itself away from the bone while you're working. Don't pull too hard though, or you can shear your meat...

Ok guys I have to leave now. Talk to you soon!

>>8069411
nice exit dubs. thanks mang. people like you are why /ck/ is one of the least shitty boards out here

>>8069425
Haha fuck you.

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>>8069411
>>8069429

Yeah... that's not even how I sign off. I guess I'm just going to have to use my old tripcode. Thanks for ruining the fun.

>>8069425
Sorry for the imposter anon.

>>8069164
ItaliAnon again.
There are many butcher shops in my area that break down sides themselves. The nicer ones do it in the back but the ones I go to with reasonable prices have the bonesaws and shit right behind the counter and can cut things to order, but only US and Chinese cuts. They grab a quarter from the back, put it up on the block and go to town.

The ones which cut to order either balk at the question or tell me to buy the whole quarter for them to cut the meat for me as I'd like. The one fancy shmancy place I've asked won't do it at all because they 'cut all their meat before store opening' and only go in the back to run things through the mincer. You can see the carcasses hanging in the back from the counter, so I know they technically /can/ cut one for me, but I don't want to press them if they already gave me a lolnope response.

The cheaper butchers are great for shanks, though, IIRC $3.19/lb whole or $4.49/lb deboned, last I went. They cost nearly double at the supermarket and over double at the fancy butcher.

>>8069348
my butcher is asking around 23$/kg, though i live in germany and beef tends to be more expensive than in the us. Its still a ridiculous price for a cut thats half bone. It seems to be the only "cheap" cut that got hyped to a point where its unaffordable.
Butcher is mid-high range but not as expensive as biological/pretentious butchers and generally has alright prices

>>8069444
That's almost $11 per pound; rough rate. Sorry to hear the price is getting too darn high. I'm not sure why the prices have risen so much. I would love to travel to Germany someday. I guess I'll have to make sure I have enough money sitting around before I try to get fresh meats and produce...

(Your trips have also been checked, friend)

>>8069440
We do largely US cuts and a few Chinese/Korean cuts at my store. I know we'd have trouble doing the Italian cuts justice, so I can understand why your butchers might not be willing to do it. Sucks that it works that way though. It would almost be a waste to get an entire quarter so that you could get a few cuts you wanted and then the rest would have to be used for other purposes.

Then again, if you use enough meat to do so and have a chest freezer and a food saver, you might be able to make out alright doing that (of course, funds would have to also be willing).

That's not too bad for shank meat! Ours is a little more expensive than that at our place. Good stuff.


That being said- the butcher is out as I do have a few errands to run. I'll answer any additional questions when I return.

Thanks for your patience, your questions, your stories, and your conversations /ck/. I look forward to answer more questions later.

>>8067361
Is flanken ribs supposed to have bone fragments in it? Is that the fault of the saw or are you supposed to wash it after buying.?

>>8069458
desu it gives the wrong impression, meat and fish is generally very affordable in germany, i think we have the lowest foodcosts in central/western europe. I also get very nice quality stuff for cheap at my turkish butcher (t-bone steak thats seen some dry storage for ~18$ /kg) which makes the price for oxtails even more ridiculous. but yeah, dont worry too much about the prices for food in germany, its def on the cheap side for europe and much cheaper than the us besides for beef/mexican ingredients/and certain types of seafood.
The city i live in has particulary harsh differences in prices, oktoberfest is starting soon where you pay ~13$ for a 1l glass of beer, while you get a case of 20 0.5l bottles in the supermarket for the same price...such is life in munich.

>>8067364
>I've seen leg quarters drop as low as ~$.60/lb f

I'm in flyover, TN; we get thighs/leg quarters for 50-75cents/lb all yearl........yeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwwwwwww!

>>8067302
it's true that mobsters force you to smuggle human corpses for beef?

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>>8069165
Idk... The professional butcher gave me a much more thorough and detailed answer than you did... I will sleep well at night now knowing that you are paying more for your chicken whilst I feast on banana ribs and white onion King crab :) sticking it to the mother fucking man.

>>8067600
this comprehensive guide should answer all your questions anon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDESuffIWxQ

>>8069530
>the man
>capitalism is a singular targetable identity.
god damn I hope you get caught and arrested for being an idiot.

>>8069458
This might be a question that you can't really answer, but I was wondering why I can't get any tritip in Texas? It's extremely easy to find in commiefornia, but it's difficult to find here unless you special order it. Is it just a matter of supply/demand?

>>8069566
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-tip

It's a native cut. Guess it's not popular elsewhere for some reason.

Butcher noob, here.

Do you supply natural casing for sausages? What do I ask for? ...Intestine?

And can you give me bones with a little meat on it for making stock? What do I ask for?

What the hell is a delmonico?

>>8069468
Hmm.. That sounds like an unfortunate situation. I haven't seen any bone fragments in my flanken-style ribs before. Perhaps I've overlooked them? I'll take a look at our service case tomorrow just to double check that we're not experiencing the same instances.

To the best of my knowledge, that can happen when the short ribs aren't handled properly; but it can also happen if the blade isn't the correct blade or if the blade on the bandsaw isn't sharp enough. Instead of cutting it, it's more-rather tearing it apart; which would shower your meat with bone debris/dust. The other possibility is that they didn't dust their ribs before they sent them out to the case. We have bone keys (dusters, etc.) that we use that help us to clear off excess bone material from a piece before we send it out. If the flanken-style rib had bone dust on it, we'd definitely key it before we sent it out.

If you don't hear anything more from me on the matter, it's something your butcher might be forgetting or looking over before sales.

>>8069478
I'm glad to hear that. Essentially all of my relatives immigrated over from Germany generations ago. I'd love to see each of the places where my bloodline came from sometime.

I'll be enjoying my Oktoberfest here- but I know it isn't the same as you'll be experiencing. I have a few steins sitting around, and my father has some of the old-fashioned hand-painted/carved flip-top ones. They're absolutely gorgeous. Too bad he doesn't let them out of the house for drinking events!

>>8069491
Lucky. That's pretty awesome! Like I've said before- it's incredible how much the prices can change around the US... I bet beef in North and South Dakota is cheap as dirt too!

>>8069507
Hah. If that happens, it's not in my precinct/locality- so I couldn't tell you anyway. Though, I guess that's what I'd have to say too if I was being forced by the mob to keep it all on the down low...

>>8069566
You can get tri-tip at HEB, I get it all the time, you might have to ask at the counter. If you're near New Braunfels they sell it at Granziens for next to nothing.

>>8067574
>(he weakly stated "hah, I caught it" upon doing so)
Picturing this scene is hilarious to me.
I am glad to hear he made a full recovery, though.

>>8069532
Brisket is definitely good for jerky. It's hard to accept having to spend $7.00/lb for jerky though. Some people like to use flank steak for it too- but again, it's expensive around here; so I can't imagine spending $9.00/lb for jerky.

Some people use their ovens on a low temp for hours with the door cracked, some people use different tools like the Nu-Wave, and some people use traditional dehydrators. In my opinion, jerky should be DRY; I'm not much into the 'wet/moist jerky' scene.

>>8069566
As >>8069573 has mentioned, the cut isn't popular everywhere in the US. It's typically a California, New York, and high-tier restaurant cut. Some meat cutters on the East Coast wouldn't even know where it is located to remove it from the animal. Most new-age cutters know though because people special order it. I also know that some stores will sell you sirloin cap steak and call it ti-tip because they don't have any on hand to sell you... It's layered in an area close to the top butt sirloin and the sirloin tip.

It's not necessarily supply and demand, but the demand is low in quite a few states- so they don't often pull in that cut specifically in meat departments for meat cutters to work with. I'd guess that's why it's expensive/hard to find in quite a few locations in the US.

>>8069597
Some shops will sell you casings for sausage. Depending on what kind of sausage you're making (or if you're making grillers instead of traditional rope), you might need a different type of casing. For rope sausage, especially for pork, I recommend getting natural hog casing. For grillers, I recommend getting collagen casing if you can.

They're often expensive though if the shop doesn't normally sell them. I think my old shop used to sell the natural hog casings for $20/lb- people definitely paid it though. I guess that supply and demand struggle is real.

(continued in next post)

>>8069597
>>8069642
If you're looking for bones with meat on them for making your stock, I would recommend getting shank meat. It comes from the foreshank section of the animal (essentially it's front leg just about where it connects to the shoulder) and has a good piece of bone in the center and a bunch of muscle surrounding it. The meat is often used for stewing meat because it is generally tough (think of the general labor those muscles had to do every day), and the bone has a some marrow in it for your stock. The best bone for stock, in my opinion, is the marrow bone (femur). The knuckle bone works well too, but the marrow bone oozes with that delicious marrow- especially if you want to use marrow as a spread for your toast or other bread (it's a thing, trust me). However, if you're looking for that extra bit of meat, get shank meat. You can combine marrow bones and shank meat too if you need to.

>>8069599
The name delmonico is interchangeable with ribeye. Typically the bone-in steak is called a ribeye steak, and the boneless variation is called a del/delmonio/boneless del/delmonico.

So if you love your ribeye steaks, you'll love delmonico steaks too.

>>8069637
Yeah- it's funny looking back on it.

The floor head thought he said "huh... I ate it"- but they asked him at the hospital and he said "I figured the day was ruined, so I should at least try to make everyone laugh"; he confirmed "hah, I caught it" was what he said (or at least tried to say- it was hard to understand him with his shocked breathing and stuttering).

We did have to shut down the shop for part of the day though to have a professional sanitation crew come through the room to remove the "biologically hazardous material(s)" from the room. Sucked. When they came in the said something about "I don't even know why we do this- they deal with blood all day and the inspectors are never upset with them, they might as well have cleaned it themselves and saved the money". Such is life though.

>>8067302
Scraps on dry age.., can you render it down?

>>8069664
Would you know where to find a good butcher in the North Dallas area? I usually go to mexican markets to get cuts that I want.

>>8069781
Theoretically, yes. You can definitely render down fat from dry aged meat- though I've never done it myself. I've also heard from some that you need to make sure that you've got the exterior layer of it trimmed off incase there is bacterial growth that remains on your fat. However, if you're cooking it down and completely rendering it... I don't see why that wouldn't kill those bacteria.

We get POUNDS of dry aged fat trimmings every 5 weeks; though we don't ever sell any, render any down, or do anything else with it other than let it hit the bin.

I've been told the dry aged fat tastes a lot different than regular beef fat though once it's rendered down for cooking purposes. I can't say it from experience though.

>>8069792
Unfortunately, I don't have any sort of connections out in the Dallas area. I have a relative in Texas, but one of his neighbors has a cattle farm- so he just gets his beef from about a mile down the road from his buddy.

Sorry anon.

I'm totally ignorant when it comes to cuts of the more-expensive meats. My family only ever had deli meats (sliced ham, turkey, hotdogs) when I was growing up. As an adult, I buy and cook chicken ($2/lb) and cheap fish ($3/lb) for myself. I've never had a steak, not even in a restaurant (I'm frugal and unadventurous).

Here's my question (imagine I'm like an alien visiting earth, because when it comes to this subject, I'm not far off): what is it about these cuts of meats that results in them selling for $10-30+ per pound? Why do people buy them over cheaper options? Is it taste? Texture? Status? What am I missing out on as a poor/cheap-ass eater?

>>8069856
I would say there's a lot of things that drive people to spend large sums of money per pound to get their steaks.

First, a good steak tastes absolutely delicious. Adding some light herbal combinations and some citrus can really bring out the best in some of them too. A salty rub could also bring forth some incredible flavors with a good steak as well.

The tender texture of a higher grade steak is also appetizing to many consumers. Being able to bite down and have the meat fall into your mouth before your teeth have even touched is a remarkable sensation.

The status symbol of serving steaks to guests is also a crowd pleaser. It shows people that you're not afraid to spend money on their enjoyment as well as your own. For this reason, high grade steaks around here are often used as a social meal. You invite your book club, golf club, friends you want to impress, etc. over for a night of delicious steaks and impressive sides. Pairing with wine or a fine craft beer will often draw favor your way as well.

All of this being said, families still buy steaks for just themselves- it's not solely an upper-class schmoozie type item. Just the other night I had a customer come in and say they needed five 2-inch center cut fillet mignons because their son was turning 8. The kid probably won't even remember the meal, nor is it likely to be a turning point in his life- even though the father spent over $100 for those steaks for the special occasion.

The important thing to remember is that whether it's for a special occasion, for celebration, for a social gathering, or just because you feel like eating steak, you're spending a lot of money (typically) to treat yourself and enjoy your dinner beyond what you can often do with lesser cuts.

Of course, as a butcher I'll be the first one to tell you that as long as you know how to cook, you can make just about any cut of meat delicious...

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I have a question.
How would you go about breaking down a human carcass for consumption, if you had to do it? Step by step, and how would you grade the ccuts, what would you use them for?
Hypothetical of course. ;^)

>>8070026
this is too interesting to pass up.

>>8070026
Thanks for confirming that I'm still on 4chan.

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>>8070026
Oh and follow up if you are so inclined, would there be a difference in quality of meat between a obese person and a normal weighted one? Fat is flavor, that's the saying, right? would a fat person be tastier?

>>8067302
This may be a bit more general question for /ck/ than you, but

I grew up in a family from an Islamic country (though none of them are muslim), so we often ate pork going out, and I love pork, but nobody in my family knows how to cook pork.

What cuts of pork should I start with if I want to get into cooking it? Any advice for pork in particular relative to other meats?

>>8070102
I don't know if I would go for the obese person, they wouldn't necessarily have more intramuscular fat, but I guess if you wanted to eat the organs then it might be more fatty. The average american has 34% BF so I think the average regular BMI person would have more than enough fat anyways. Even if you're not American pretty much every country is catching up in how fat they are. Though most east asian countries have lower thresholds for obesity due to generally having a higher bf% (e.g. 25 BMI is overweight in the US but obese in Japan, I think 27 is the cutoff in mainland China)

>>8070026
>>8070102

The atrocity of doing so would render even those of strong will numb and devoid of mental stability and all emotion; assuming, of course, that the psychoactive concepts or "the gene" of cannibalism was not active in their mind and body.

The grading of meat would be done as it is with beef, via the space between the 12th and 13th rib. This helps us determine the age and gives a good indicator of the marbling aspects of the rest of the carcass.

Breaking down the carcass, however, would be a somewhat different occurrence than that of a standard beef or other four-legged animal.

As far as the use of the cuts, they would mimic those of the cuts of similar nature from other animals.

Additionally, what >>8070131 has said is also true. The fat % of the average human can be rather different than what you're expecting from the average yield of a beef.

As I have never graded (and never intend to) a human carcass, it would be hard for me to determine whether the quality of meat would be better between someone that had used their body (and muscles) more frequently and the quality of meat from a body that had been lazier and accumulated a larger percentage of body fat.

The other item that is completely being ignored here is the dietary choices that either had made. The diet of the animal is a large factor as to the growth and development of the product in question. As humans are much like carp and bottom-feeders that eat the most unimaginable crap foods and others eat great diets, it would be incredibly difficult for me to just give a greater rating to one body rather than another based solely on their fat content.

I am not sure how I feel about the discussion of the direction of human anatomy for this purpose, so I fear that this is where I will end this topic for the time being. Sorry to be a poor sport anon.

>>8070131

I will be back to answer your question soon. I need to finish making dinner.

Another butcher-anon here. Been butchering for 7 years now.

Keep up the good fight of educating the public.

>>8070266
>>8070131
To answer your question about which pork cuts to buy/start cooking, I would recommend the pork sirloin chop. It's typically cheaper than other cuts of pork (at least, locally it is) and it has good flavor to it. It's sort of like a sirloin steak, but from a pig instead of a steer. The other thing you can do is to try cooking with the 'assorted' pork chops or 'end chops' depending on where you are. They're cuts from where we'd normally make roasts out of the pork loin, but instead they cut them down into chops. There can be more bone than usual or it can be at weird places, but the meat is still good. The price is usually pretty good too.

When cooking pork- instead of cooking up to 160º (well done; as was demanded for safety in previous years), the USDA approved cooking it to 145º (medium rare or so) a few years back. Just make sure the pork has a full 3 minutes of rest time.

If you're worried about getting sick with it, make sure it gets up to 160º (aka well done).

>>8070282
Glad to see there's more than one of us. Keep the knifes sharp, but the eyes and mind sharper anon.

I figured I'm just doing what I can for my fellow anons.

Grass-fed vs Grass finished? Also have you ever eaten an older cow? I hear that a Spanish steakhouse uses dry aged cuts from former work cows that are like 15 year old. They retire them and fatten them for a couple years before slaughtering.

>>8070413
Great, thank you so much for all your advice!

>>8067302
How do I obtain GOOD demi-glace without having to order bulk restaurant amounts?

I don't really have an entire day to dedicate to roasting veal bones and reducing down to distilled heaven.

i'm gonna be smoking a pork butt this weekend

is it best to leave it on the smoker the entire time (until IT is around 200-205 since i'm gonna be pulling it) or should i take it off around 165 and wrap it in foil? everyone's telling me different things, people say unwrapped makes amazing bark and wrapped makes it juicier. if i just put the drip pan catchings over the pulled pork afterwards would it be good unwrapped the entire time?

>>8070457
>>8070624
>>8070652

I will answer these questions (and more) when I return from work today. It'll be about 10 hours- so leave any other questions you have for me /ck/ and I'll answer them to the best of my ability.

>>8067302
welcome again butcher.

i enjoy your threads and learn a lot.

What do you think about the super dry aged beef meme, like 100+ days

>>8067392

I know that feel, I had customer become borderline furious when I told her that we used chuck for our mince.

>"Well, then it's not steak mince, is it? That's false advertising."

Do people really think we're going to mince sirloin or fillet?

>>8067302
professional chef from New Zealand reporting.

While a lot of the localized knowledge surrounding the naming and choice of cuts can get a bit a bit obscure (for me), I do have some experience in North American professional cookery, and the information is solid gold.

Easily one of the most informative threads I have seen on /ck/.

Thanks bro. I respect what you are doing here.

>>8067574
I used to work with wood and I can sympathize, a while ago some anon shared a story about an industrial lathe. Shit fucking haunts me.

>>8067302
Hey butcher-man, I'm the anon that lives in Japan.

Just saw your question in the archive regarding a comparison of Japanese and American stock.

Japanese beef is rich; but since there isn't much of an aging tradition here, I find the flavors to be somewhat one-note.

Consequently, Japanese wagyuu plays really nice with other flavors and sauces that help bring out it's muted beefy character and cut through some of the fat.

Disclaimer:

I've had beef from Hida-Takayama and Himi; some of the southern varieties might show more complex characters.

Beef here also tends to be sold as thin slices rather than steak-cuts; so preparation is also impacting that taste experience.

Aside: Beef tongue is hilarious expensive in this country, and it is worth every yen.

How often do you come across abscesses in meat?

How willing are butchers to offer bulk prices for regular customers who make large orders? What size of order would you consider "bulk"?

>>8067302
Where can I find dry hung meat that's never been refrigerated or frozen?

>>8072105
right here
>:: motions crotchward ::

>>8069530
Poor poorfag. If stealing food is something you are proud of, then I pity your future children, as they will amount to nothing but thieves, just like you.

Im looking to buy 2 choice tri tips. The price for untrimmed is 3.99/lb, while the trimmed is 4.99/lb.

Which is cheaper once you consider the trimming?

>>8067302
Have you seen Scott Rea's videos?
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheScottReaproject
I find his butchery really skillful but recipes a bit hit and miss.

How the hell do I make salted beef and shit without much preparation, /ck/? Is it even possible?

The butcher is in. I'll start taking care of your questions in the order I've received them. There's quite a few, so please be patient.

>>8070457
To most, these are the same thing. Most cattle start their life eating grass in pastures and "foraging" for their food. From this point, however, most cattle move into feeding areas to fatten them up and make them grow quicker for slaughtering purposes. Those that are grass fed or "grass finished" are cattle that maintain eating grass/foraging for their entire dietary need until slaughter.

At least, this is what I was taught years ago. The rules may have changed...

I have not eaten any older cows- but I know that there are some European steakhouses that marvel over their old, matured cattle. From what I understand, these mature cattle get old enough that their muscles begin to soften and weaken to the point of extreme tenderness throughout most of the (if not the entire) carcass. Their fat is a different color too, if you've ever looked for pictures of it. Neat stuff.

Sorry I don't know more about the older cattle for your knowledge basis.

>>8070624
I'm afraid that the only way I know how to make a legitimately satisfying demi-glace is to reduce everything down over a long period of time. There was a professional chef that replied to this thread somewhere though- perhaps you can coax additional ideas or techniques out of him?

My friends say that you can make a quality demi-glace in an hour and a half. However, my uncle (who cooks frequently) tells me that he likes to reduce it further, which makes it closer to three or four hours for the entire process to occur. Sucks, but the stuff is delicious.

The other way, of course, is to buy it from a professional cook/chef or a restaurant (which also sucks and is expensive).

>>8070652
Here's a good rule of thumb to follow for tender, well-smoked, and moist smoked pork butts.

The meat should be smoked at about 225 (maybe 250) degrees and this process then requires between 1.5 and 2 hours per pound of meat you're smoking. That means that 5 pound butt you're using (for example) could take up to 10 hours to reach its ideal cook. Remember that the amount of fat, size and amount of bone, and other factors all take part in deciding how long to smoke your preferred meat. Another item to consider: the better you maintain your heat, the quicker your product will be done.

I would say keep it on the grill the whole time, and keep your grill temp low. It'll take forever, but it will be worth the effort. High heat (and a quicker cook) would give you some hearty and crunch exterior portions, but if you're looking to pull it all you shouldn't be too worried about that anyway. If you want to use your drip pan to catch extra juice and moisture and essential baste that thing while it's on there, more power to you. Shit should be delicious.

>>8071542
Thanks anon. I enjoy making them. Glad to hear people are getting something out of them.

>>8071614
It's not really a meme. It's something that super luxurious steakhouses do to try to pull in even more people than they already do. Why sell 10 steaks from a loin for $300 dollars when you can sell 6 smaller portioned steaks for $500-600? It's basic mathematical principles of making mad money in your restaurant.

The basic concepts behind dry aging are to 1) dry out the external meat and fat so that the internal muscle gets that much more juice; and 2) to allow for natural enzymes to break down the interior meat to the point that you could *literally* rip the steak apart if you're not careful.

(continued in next post)

>>8071614
>>8072632

Even our 5 week aged meats are ridiculously tender- but that's only 35 days. I've only ever had one steak that was aged further than 5 weeks, and I can't say I was too much more impressed than the 5 week steak. However, I am comparing our 5 week choice+/prime ribeye steak to someone else's 8 week select New York Strip... so the test may be slightly biased for this reason. I can't imagine letting my meat dry age for such a long duration- but you can't argue with the results. Even at 5 weeks the meat is EXTREMELY tender. Matching steak for steak, I'm sure that a steak aged for 15 weeks would be absolutely lovely and beyond measure to a regular steak. However, your portion would also be much smaller due to the amount of moisture and that the meat would lose and the mass that would need to be shaved off.

On average, our loins lose around 2-3 pounds in 5 weeks. Pretty serious losses; but the price it sells for allows for this loss.

>>8072105
Please say this in another way. Are you looking for dry aged meat that was without refrigeration? Or are you looking for meat that has been hung up for its aging process that never went into a cooler? I'm not quite sure what you're looking for with your question.

(sorry)

>>8072171
Your best bet would be to look at the tri-tips that are available to you from both perspectives. If you find that the meat has been adequately maintained before it has been put into the cryo-vac, I would definitely say go with the untrimmed. If, however, the meat is completely riddled with exterior fat, I would say that the trimmed price is fair.

Typically, you will find that most times you'll get more for your money without having the butchers or meat cutters work on the meat. A few minutes of their time to trim it adds up quickly for your wallet. But, as I said, it really depends on what pieces of meat you're looking at to know which is the better deal. I apologize that my answer is not more definitive.

>>8072214
I checked out your link. Incidentally, I have seen some of his videos in the past, but I never really stopped to watch them in detail. Bloke is pretty good though and his blade hand is steady.

>>8072222
The preparation to make salted beef is required in order to make it properly. You could always buy some and just do the cooking portion. If there is a way to do so that I am unfamiliar with, I hope that someone else points it out.

>>8072702
>Bloke is pretty good though and his blade hand is steady

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okv6N7KfR6A
So is this the way to take care of your knives?

>>8072064
Per the last thread, bulk orders are usually by the case.

>>8072850
I've never pushed my blade straight with the stone before- I was always taught that it wasn't good for your blade. Then again, some butchers are superstitious where they don't want to do anything other than what they were taught by their teacher and so forth.

The talk of the angles and showing the movement of the knife across while sharpening the whole blade is what I do.

I find it strange that he's only using one level of sharpening stone before taking it over to the honing steel. I was taught to use a three stone approach. Start with the coarse, then move to the medium, then the fine- your steel should be a very fine (sometimes called a polishing steel) to finalize the sharpening process. However, that's not how everyone does it- just the superstitious teachings of the butchers and meat cutters I learned from early on.

Surely his method works, and if it's how you'd like to do your sharpening, I don't think you'd be too bad off for doing it that way.

>>8071627
Our 93/7 is labeled as ground sirloin because we actually do use top butt sirloin and sirloin tips for the grinds. It's a bit bonkers, really- but the customers love it.

It's impossible to please everyone though...

>>8071658
I'm glad that you're enjoying the thread. Please feel free to comment on anything cooking related if you'd like. I'm not a novice cook, but I'm also in no way a pro. I have immense respect for those who can master any craft- culinary skills are hard earned, and your compliments are much appreciated.

>>8072004
Beef tongue can be delicious- that's for sure. It's a delicacy to some. Where I live, very few people would even pay $4/lb for it though.

I'd love to travel to Japan sometime. The culture, history, and the lifestyle is absolutely entrancing to me.

How do you feel about lab grown meat?

>>8072024
Very rarely. Our providers are incredibly meticulous with the product that we receive. When I worked at my meat department job, I think I saw four assesses the entire time. Since I've been at my most recent employer I haven't seen any blemishes in the product aside from a few fatty pieces and some bloodshot pieces (which is a pretty common thing to find if you're going through a lot of product every week)

>>8072064
>>8072915
This is accurate. Typically meat departments go by the case. If you go to a real butcher, he might offer you deals by the 1/8 cattle if you're lucky. Most times the real discounts come if you're looking to by a 1/4 beef, a side of beef, or a whole beef. Last guy I talked to said he'd sell me a side of beef for 2.50/lb for dressed weight. But that was a few years ago... I would have also needed to do the cutting myself- he just would have brought his refrigerated truck over and let me have at it.

>>8073309
I know that the product is supposed to taste extremely similar to what real meat tastes like, and that it would reduce the amount of land required for farm animals, materials for feeding (etc.), and animal waste by large margins (I believe I heard 90% last time I read an article).

That being said, it's still cost-prohibitively expensive. $12-20 for a burger? With upsale at stores and restaurants, that's $25-40 for a burger that doesn't taste much better than what you're already getting for $8.

Then again, since they're fabricating the meat, it is possible for them to enhance the health proponents inside of each bit that comes out of their tubes... so theoretically the 'test tube meat' or 'clean meat' (as they once tried to call it) would be better for humanity to consume.

Of course, everything above this line of text is going from a moral and a logical perspective. As a butcher, I think that it's not where everything should be going because it is less natural than consuming a real animal. We don't know any of the side effects from consuming these products (if there are any), nor do we know about the true sustainability or shelf life of the product. For now, I think that we're wise to continue doing what we've always done. Perhaps lab grown meats will be the future someday- but for now, your meat cutters and your butchers are your best line of defense (and offense) to get a delicious cut; typically at a fair price.

>>8070457
Did u watch Steak (R)Evolution? Its on netflix and the doc showed the audience a spanish steakhouse and beef producer with his intension of raise very old cattle.

>>8073333
Loved your last thread, I bought the books you suggested and started going through the beef book.

I wanted to get into the business eventually, if you wanted to construct your own shop, how would you set it up? Where would u put this and that, sort of thing.

Any particular quirks youd want rethought or layout placements that make you think you shouldve put this case over here rather than right here by the door, etc.?

>>8073971
Yep. That's where I found out about it lol. A local farmer in my area told me the best is old cows he fattens up. But he only keeps it for his family.

>>8067302
Is there a legal definition of what is a porterhouse steak vs a t-bone? I am forever seeing steaks at the grocery store marked as porterhouse when the tenderloin part is barely as thick as my thumb.

Could they get into any trouble and who could I call?

0GHMMVMJHMKU

>>8073333
Thanks for the response. Another question I have is how "good" are you at determining a cut of meat? If I just gave you an 8 oz cut of a mystery meat, would you be able to give me the animal name, area of the animal the meat is from, and if this is a quality cut or a shit cut? If so, how will you be able to determine these things?

What are the different types of rib cuts for pork? I always see like 3 different names at the store and I wanted to know which ones I should grab when I make slow-cooker ribs...

>>8074004
I hope you're enjoying the reading. There's some pretty great stuff in those books.

I'll have to think about my optimal shop setup. All the shops I've been in have had pros and cons; though after a short while you get used to it and it's not a big deal either way. I guess it depends on whether you intend to do traditional butchery or if you'll go the route of boxed beef. Boxed beef allows for lest waste, less headaches, quicker access to product, and allows you to have more of each item on hand. Traditional butchery gives you every possibility of the animal and also brings in a great local crowd (especially if your beef is local). Let me know which setup (or both) you think you'd be looking for and I'll do what I can to talk through it.

>>8074067
If you're going by the book (USDA and MPA): porterhouse steaks must maintain at least 1 1/4 inches of fillet mignon across the center whereas t-bone steaks must maintain at least 1/2 an inch of fillet across the center. Despite what many claim, the thickness of the steak has nothing to do with it. Merely the amount of presence of the fillet mignon.

>>8074143
I'm typically very good at determining what steak and/or sub-primal I'm looking at. Especially given that it's cut in the way that I typically cut it. There are many pieces in a beef that could easily be confused with others if it isn't cut the proper way.

Some signs for helping determine what cut it is or what kind of meat it is are: color, grain, marbling, shape, overall diameter of meat (if the meat was cut straight down as intended), and the texture of the meat.

Based on these aspects, it would be possible to determine what you have on hand, and from there I could decide if you've got a good cut or not.

Some people cut their meat weirdly though, and that makes it difficult to determine what they've actually got on hand. If it was cut in a circle instead of a steak, it would be harder to tell as well.

>>8074262

There's quite a few different types of rib-related items you can get when you're thinking about pork.

Related to the term "rib" are: rib chops/loin chops (essentially t-bone/porterhouse in beef terms), then there's baby back ribs, St. Louis style ribs, and there's also spare ribs.

What is important to know is that the baby backs are smaller, more tender, and also leaner than spare ribs. St. Louis style ribs are slightly nicer than spare ribs because they're essentially cut down spare ribs to make them more rectangular, easier to cook, and it removes a little more bone that can't be eaten. Spare ribs are typically the cheapest type of rib, but for now obvious reasons after the above information has been given.

If you're going to smoke the crap out of (or slow cook) your ribs, I recommend the baby back ribs. You'll be delighted with the results.

The butcher out, but I will return in about 10 hours to answer more questions. I'll be looking forward to it /ck/.

>>8073303
>beef tongue for 4/lb
give please

How is eating animals different then eating humans?

The Butcher = Best /ck/ thread

From your perspective, if one had the freezer space, would it be a big $$$ advantage to buy half of a dead cow, cut, wrapped and frozen, ready for the freezer?
I realize there are tons of variables, like if you live in Fiji or the heart of Texas etc. so let's just go with your area for example.
I did a net search for "side of beef" and first site the came up "in Chesapeake, VA, not my state" is offering 320lbs. dressed weight @ 75% yield, cut, packaged, frozen for $1200 USD plus tax.
So that would work out to around $5.50 per pound USD average.
It would be a pick it up deal so shipping not a factor.
I found it odd they do not mention the grade of the meat at all, just "premium meats" on their home page, which really means nothing I think.
I've heard peeps in the past (no experts) say you end up with like 70% ground/stew meat when buying it like that.
Also I think it would depend on how fast you could realistically use it all, I don't think you would want it sitting in your freezer for like 5 years as I think the quality would be reduced over time.
Your thoughts, Meat Sensei?

I got a couple of minutes during my break today, so I'll respond to two of the questions I've received so far.

>>8075048
I'll take a picture of the current price in our store when I head home for you.

I was told pricing went up recently though.

>>8075061
Animals don't eat grossly over processed foods and other materials that decay ther body excessively and make their meat less desirable to eat- but humans do.

There's also other risks/complications that could present themselves with human consumption.

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>>8075048
Fucking hipsters.

>tfw I used to buy mine narrow from grass-finished cows for 1.99 a pound.

>it went up to almost 3.99.

>>8075657
>complaining about almost 3.99
I live in socal dude, i pay 9-11/lb for tongue at the supermarket, and have seen grass fed/finished for 15/lb

>>8075667
I live in central cal.
>farms everywhere

I feel bad for you man.

On a side note: Used to date a girl who's family owned a dairy farm. Fresh cream and milk for homemade butter

>>8075691
Btw if y'all are ever in the Visalia area... Buy rosa bros. milk. It's the greatest milk on the planet.

>cheaper than strauss at 3.99 a bottle
>local

>>8075691
fuggg jelly

I have a friend whose family grows almonds and owns a ton of land up there.
mad jelly of her.

I was looking into buying a couple of acres, probably central cause its unaffordable or just desert down here...

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>>8075621
Is flatiron a decent cut? What do with it?

One time I made it in the broiler and it was outstanding. I tried it two other times and it was sub par.

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>>8075712
It's cheap as fuck here. Be warned tho, whenever the light rail train is built, property value is going to explode.

>house is 5500 sq feet not including backyard
>bought it during the recession at 650k
>now worth 1.5 mil.

>>8075719
fuck thats real nice.
sadly i dont have house kind of money, i was looking mostly for 1-2 empty acres that I could plop something cheapish on, like a warehouse type building that i could go to on weekends because my small ass condo doesnt have room for a workshop. have some plants growing or something too.

>>8075788
Land is cheap. Food is as fresh as can be. Move here.

>conservative as fuck too
>ccw is easy to get

>>8075794
work is here (orange county) though.
Have the opportunity to grow at my job, and not really qualified for much else.
Maybe in a couple years when I can find a job somewhere else at a decent pay level

>>8075691
559?

>>8075704
That root beer milk is phenomenal. However a shake from Superior Dairy in Hanford will always get my money.

>>8075794
Its cheap for those who makes enough to consider it cheap. Its only getting much cheaper if you're running out of water and then why would I buy dry land with no water?

>>8075905
Muh nigga... Tulare, Visalia, or Hanford?

>Orange creme milk
>strawberry
>rosa bros. ice cream

>the new coffee shop on Hanford sometimes does affogatos and cold brew floats with superior dairy.

Just don't drink the water.

>>8075912
Fresno actually. Family live just north of Hanford. When we visit its just to Superior.

>>8075920
Nice. Some Visalia locals just opened a burger joint there. It's called Char-Burger. Have you been there?

>>8075929
No I haven't. My most recent burger hunting exp was in Caruthers. A place called Dos Okies. Good food for the price

>>8074753
I'm hoping for traditional butchering. I also want there to be on display, behind plexiglass or whatever, a a butcher breaking down a carcass and primals as the day goes. Or even seeing them do tons of poultry.

That display can be the whole operation on display along the side of the shop or one guy on display for everyone to see and everyone else breaking down a carcass is in the back behind walls/doors.

>>8075621
I just signed up for a Butchery Workshop: Whole Pig.
Its a 6 hour class, on breaking down a pig, turning some of it into charcuterie and shit.
Im pretty excited, wouldnt have thought to look without your threads.

>>807606
Where's it at? Like a community college or a local trade annex or something?

>>8076079
Some workshop kitchen that runs classes all the time.
its not until february but im pumped.
http://thegourmandiseschool.com/#
probably going to take a cheese class next month as well

Do you have any experience working with organ meat? I attempted to prep cow heart recently and struggled filleting the silver skin all around the heart even after cutting it into quarters.

And do you have any book suggestions that can help teach the skills?

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What does the grocery store mean by labeling cubed meat as "beef for stew"? Every time I use it in stew it comes out rubbery and hard to chew. Did I not cook it long enough? Did I cook it too long? What cubed meat should I actually use for crockpot stew?

Hey butcher got a question for you if you're still floating around.

I managed to luck into a 15lb Prime Brisket slab. It appears to be untrimmed, as I'm seeing some massive fat caps on several sides of the meat.

I'm planning to smoke it and make pastrami, but I've been getting different sets of advice with regards to prepping the brisket for the smoking. Should I trim off the majority of the fat or leave it own during the smoking? Ideally this brisket is going to be smoked to the point that it can be fork shredded and turned into sammiches for a maassive potluck so I'd want to make sure the pastrami is good for that. This is the first time in a long while I've been using such a large brisket before so any help is appreciated.

>>8076147
Beef for stew in my experience ususally refers to cuts of meat like chuck or round that have been simply cubed. If your chunks are coming out too tough that means they haven't been cooked long enough. You typically want to first brown the chunks on a pan with some oil so they get a nice sear on all sides, then toss them in the stew at very low temperature usually for several hours. At that point, the collagen and tendons in the muscles break down and your meat becomes fork tender and falls apart, but that typically won't happen until they've been cooking/braising in the liquid for several hours.

In my crockpot for example, the quickest beef stew recipe usually needs 4 hours minimum on high heat in order for the beef to become fork tender like that.

>>8067424
Malort? Where the fuck are you raising these animals in Chicago?

>>8075788
Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.
>>8075794
Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.
>>8075815
Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.
>>8075903
Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.
>>8075905
Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.
>>8075910
Fuck off.
No one cares about your Cali dehydrated fruit roll up children.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.
>>8075912
Fuck off, nigga
This is Meat Sensei's thread.
>>8075920
Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.
>>8075929
Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.
>>8075936
Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.
>>8076147
Finally back on track.

That means it will require a long cooking time to make it tender, which also means if done correctly it will be very succulent = fucking aWesome good, and tender.

Another way to think of it, if you put those cubes on a skewer and grill them as in kabobs, it will be like chewing on a fucking car tire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVkZnUf1RuM

Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.

Meat Sensei, please continue.

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>>8076349

The butcher is in.

>>8075171
Right now for pretty serious half beef near me it is $6.55/lb. That's some all-natural and grass-fed beef. Really premium stuff.

Another place I could buy my beef is about $4.00/lb for a half (adjusted for market inflation, [their website is old- but their farm is still selling beef] last price was $2.75/lb). That's for typical beef- including the slaughter and processing fees of them to make steaks. That would be a pretty legitimate deal to get.

Depending on what your agreements are with the processor or the farm that is selling you the meat, you can end up with a great deal for the money (steaks that can't be used and roasts that can't be used turn into grinds [aka, savings]). However, you can find out very quickly that when they process your meats and make the roasts boneless, trim fat, etc. you will end up paying similar rates to what you'd pay at a store- however, your meats will be extremely fresh and will taste better than most local stores.

Grading of beef theoretically needs to be done by the USDA, so it's not often that farms advertise their beef at any particular grading. They will often say their crop of beef is "premium" "local" "fresh" "of great quality" etc. because they're allowed to do so without breaking the laws of grading. It's a really complicated issue.

You would also be advised to use all of the meat within a 6 month to 12 month period. After that, your beef will start to suffer adverse effects (more than the typical damage of freezing on its own, that is).

>>8075657
>>8075048
I checked my case today- I was surprised to see that the price had risen for FROZEN beef tongue up to about $6.50/lb. Sorry for the price shock of $4 earlier. I hadn't realized the market had shifted so abruptly in the last year or so.

>>8076582
>Fuck off.

I am not Meat Sensei.

I am grasshopper;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z08zZ1xW9Yw

The butcher trimmed his own foreskin, skilllzzz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzBIGv9atPo

Meat Sensei, please continue.

>>8076683
Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.

>>8076147

Is the sense answering the question? I'm buying this meat. I have a buddy that told me to buy sirloin steak and cube it myself.

>>8075715
Flat iron steak is an interesting cut. In earlier years butchers just threw it into the grinder with the rest of the chuck meat. However, since chefs "found it" and have brought it to the celebrity light, it has become a 'sensational cut'. The price rose from about $3/lb to $6.50 almost overnight. Now it's just getting more and more expensive every year...

The steak itself can be great or really crappy depending on how it was cut. There's a bunch of crap in the center of it which, if not removed, leaves an area that is very tough.

In the end, it's a piece from the chuck primal- therefore, it is flavorful. It's good, but in honesty I don't think it's worth its current market price.

Most people either grill it or cook it in a skillet.

>>8075953 I'll get yours in my next post- it will be lengthy.

>>8076062
Charcuterie is making a huge comeback right now- definitely the right time to be learning. Take notes, and take videos if you're able. What you see from the butcher will be worth much more (probably) than what you're paying for the class.

>>8076693
>Fuck off.
>This is Meat Sensei's thread.

No, actually, fuck ewe.
The Butcher Sensei will learn you.

>>8075953
Let's do this thing.

If you want to have the most sanitary working environments and you're not worried about having the most time effective of working structures, you should have three separate areas in your workshop. The pork, the beef, and the chicken floor areas. If you want to separate them by counter space, you could certainly do that as well. This way you don't have to worry about any sort of cross-contamination. The cases have partitions in them anyway (or you can have them made to fit together to keep the doors from allowing any product from one meat classification to enter the others). If you want to sell veal, lamb, etc. you can technically keep them with the pork. I'd make sure to have some sort of partition (kale, greens, plastic divider, whatever) between them so that customers know which section is which.

For ease of the customer, you could also include charts for each cut over top of the area that you're selling each bit in, as well as some basic recipe cards for each cut that you're selling. That way when they say, "uh, how do I cook this?" you can immediately say, "my friend, here are a few different things you can do with that wonderful product you're holding". Or, you can memorize them all- whatever works for you...

Separating the cutting floors/areas would be expensive, and you should be sure to have saws in the pork room and also for the beef room. You should have two or three tables with either wood tops (traditional, but often frowned upon by FDA and other safety administrations) or modern plastic table tops. The legs and frames of these tables are typically steel, and should be moveable for cleaning in the evening. Each room, then, should also have its own hose and cleaning supplies. Make sure you have a three-tubbed sink in EACH of the three cutting rooms.

At the back of each of the rooms you should have your refrigeration chambers. Make sure to leave plenty of space for your partially used sides to move around. (cont.)

>>8076716
Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZIv6WtSF9I

Will this take yer jerb?

>>8076704
>Is the sense answering the question? I'm buying this meat. I have a buddy that told me to buy sirloin steak and cube it myself

"Is the sense answering the question?"

Oh, my response may seemed Akwad I know.

You asked question
I answered
gave opinion, and possible solutions that may help
You choose to cry and eat the crunchy tenndie's out of the cat's littler box because your mum doesn't love you and will OD before she make's it home, if your lucky
1st world langostinos,

>>8075953
>>8076732

Having enough room in those refrigeration rooms is difficult- especially when you're planning to work with full sides of beef or entire livestock. Being able to move them around is HUGE in terms of making sure everything is accessible.

Chickens are easy, pigs are relatively simple, but beef is a whole other issue. You might also need to team lift- because a side of beef can weigh over 500 pounds depending on the breed of cattle and the size of the beef before slaughter.

If you need to slaughter your own in your shop, we'll need to change the diagram around some too- as it's important to make sure that customers don't see it. They'll act like they want to, but then you'll have customers that break down, lose it, or cause trouble due to cruelty. Seriously- it will happen. Make sure if you have a kill floor that they CANNOT see what is going on.

About the cases: You will want to have glass or plexiglass fronts to your cases, and you will want your cases to have double-door setups that can slide behind/in front of each other so that you can open one half at a time. Sometimes this sucks for the product in the absolute center of that portion of the case, but this is the tradeoff we accept for the ease of working with the general public. It is also helpful if your cases can open from the front (lifting upward) for the sake of cleaning the cases at the end of the night and for making those windows sparkle. Kids will suck and ruin the exterior of the glass- it happens every time; sorry.

Depending on the feel you're looking for, you could go with a black mat for the bottom of your beef and pork/veal/lamb case and have black trays on top of it to display your goods.

Your chicken case should also be able to support a full load of ice, as it is important to keep your chicken cold all day long while on display.

(cont.)

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>>8076754

>being butthurt over not having credentials
>not knowing mom's been dead for 9 years

>>8076755
>>8075953

Make sure to have price tags near your product, but not puncturing your product as traditional tined/pronged price makers do. Most people don't want the one the sticker is in if you do this- which means a chance of not selling a premium item.

I would also advise (and this may not fit your logic- so you would be able to do as you please) not showing one of EVERYTHING you are able to produce in the cases. This leads to the possibility of massive losses due to the losses of your product in the case. You would need to rotate your case stock every day or two to keep it all looking fresh and quality. If you put everything in, you face the chances of none of that selling, and you lose a portion of a sub primal (or an entire sub primal). Shit is rough as a traditional butcher.

Your counter area should have at least enough space for 15 customers and their possible offspring. If your money allowed, I would have some light seating (perhaps at the wall with a mounted bench or something similar) and some general seating with some tables. That way people who are waiting for a special cut would be able to do so if they requested it at the counter instead of calling ahead. Trust me, this will also happen. The general consumer gives less than a quarter shit about what it takes to get their product ready- they just want it.

For this reason, if you want to be an upscale looking butcher shop, you might want to offer wi-fi for your customers. If you're going traditional, fuck that. They're not getting luxury- they're getting quality meats and will have to wait patiently.

The lighting in the room is also important. You need to decide if you want your meat under high attention with quality lighting (natural light if you go this way- make sure there are windows at the walls leading up to your cases) or if you'd rather have a medium light setting. Of course, your cutting floors will need premium lighting- less you want to cutting yourself.
(cont.)

>>8075953
>>8076777

I guess the last part I'll be able to tell you about (for the time being) would be the knives and additional supplies you would need for your shop.

I would recommend procuring at least the following for traditional butchering:
*3 meat hook(s) - you never know when you will need extra help or when you will accidentally drop one and ruin the tip (temporarily, of course). There's no time to fix a hook during the day shift, so make sure you have at least one spare.
*2 cimeter knives- your choice of 10, 12, or 14 inch blade. Know what you're comfortable with and use it. If you plan to do much splitting of poultry, you could consider a third- unless you intend to use a butcher's hacksaw or a cleaver.
*6 boning knives- you will use these more than you realize... I typically recommend a semi-stiff blade for most situations.
*3 cleavers (one for each room)
*1 multi-stone sharpening stone (coarse, medium, fine)
*3 extra fine or ultra fine (polishing steel) steels (one for each room)
*2 skinning knives (pork and beef rooms)
*2 traditional butcher knives (larger head; provides extra weight for the knife to carry and drop through product)
*2 butcher's hacksaws (beef and pork rooms)

I may have forgotten a few things, and if I did I apologize. Certainly a good list to start with.

Other things you'd need, of course, include: butcher's parchment paper (peach treated, typically- though sometimes freezer paper is desired by certain customers), tape, netting, twine, medical supplies (Radnor makes great kits), butcher's smocks, aprons (keeping blood/debris off coats for when you want to see customers or need to take the floor- you take off the apron and are presentable), scales, label printers (or a calculator with a 'bill tabulation' sheet, if you're old school enough), and freezer bags, product bags, and a plethora of other important items.

I hope I have answered your question in enough detail anon. Let me know if you need anything else.

>>8076755
>kill floor
Meat Sensei's thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzBIGv9atPo

Yes, Meat Sensei

>>8076125
I have plenty of experience taking it from the animal, but I am embarrassed to say that my time cooking these meats are extremely limited. Harvesting organs is difficult work, as is deveining livers, working hearts, etc.

Adam Danforth's book about beef butchering is super legit.

Here's what I would suggest for the heart: Start by separating the chambers of the heart based on thickness. This lets you work with flat pieces and ensures the final product will cook evening. Lay a piece on your table with the fat up and trim that surface. Use shallow strokes so you only take off the top material and begin to expose the lean muscle underneath. If you render your fat, save your heart fat. Flip it over and do the same with the chamber walls and vessels. The interior will be uneven, so you will need to manipulate the heart to allow better trimming access. Then repeat for the other remaining pieces.

(It's pretty much what Adam writes in his book.)

>>8076147
What >>8076160 said is actually really good information. It is typically a cut from a roast or a less tender piece of meat that takes a longer cooking time to become fully tender. If it was a bit tough, the cook time was probably too short. The meat is intended to be cooked for a good while (multiple hours) before it reaches its potential for tenderness.

If I had to chose, I would say you want chuck roast or bottom round/rump roast for your chunks. If you use a more expensive meat, it would be more tender, but it also sort of defeats the purpose of stew meat.

>>8067302
Are you nice to the guy who cleans up the cutting room in your store? Because that's my job right now. I hate it but the people I work with are nice.

>>8076149
15 pound brisket? Sounds like a full brisket to me- nice.

I'll be honest with you, I've heard a lot of different opinions even in my realm of the proper making of pastrami. In the end, I've come to the conclusion that you don't want it to be *excessively* fatty on the exterior, so you should trim it some before it hits the smoker. Make sure there's still some on the exterior though, or it's possible you'll lose some tenderness.

Sorry that I don't have any better advice for you, friend. Pastrami is something I certainly am not extremely experienced in making.

>>8076704
Answered. Again, I don't think sirloin steak is a good cut for it unless you've got cash to blow and you don't really care that your meat is essentially "too good" for your stew. It would be good, but unless you're using sirloin tip, I think it's too good for what the stew is supposed to be.

>>8076748
That's a good question. In honesty, it has taken quite a few jobs over the past years. The problem is that while the machine performs relatively exacted tasks, it does not calculate for carcasses that fit outside of the typical norms. They also often allow bones to end up in "boneless" pieces, and sometimes maim cuts and allow them to look less than pristine.

It's a lot cheaper than having butchers in the long run, but your quality of product will end up having some issues over the various runs it takes.

Overall, those machines are impressive though. No human could keep up with it for the duration that it's working. Keep in mind, this is what many retail stores buy. Think about what their product looks like in comparison to what a shop with a real cutter working at it looks like... You can often tell the difference.

>>8076775
>>>8076754 (You)
>>being butthurt over not having credentials
>>not knowing mom's been dead for 9 years

Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.

Ummm, you assed and don't know, nuffs said

Butt hurt? is that a desert? will it hurt? should I eat yogurt?

Just because your mom's dead doesn't mean she stopped tweakin, why do you think Meat Sensei recommends hanging the carcass? fuckin newb

>>8076840
In the olden days, the guy who cleaned the floors was typically the next one to learn to cut chicken. It's a vital role that needs to be treated with respect. Honestly, if the cleaner doesn't do their job right, we're screwed in the morning. We don't have time to do it ourselves, so quality help is often extremely important to us because it is also very hard to find. I've had good cleaners and bad cleaners work for me- but I remember what it was like cleaning the floors when I was younger, so I appreciate what they're doing now. The better the clean, the nicer the butchers and meat cutters typically are.

Again, cleaners were often trying to get into the trade early on. Once they cleaned for long enough and watched the butcher work for long enough, the butcher would give them easy tasks. Early cleaning included: "sand down the blocks", "throw new sawdust- there's too much blood on the floor", "scrub the floor, the blood is getting saturated in the wood", etc. Easy tasks included working with poultry (cleaning, pulling feathers, pulling pin feathers, etc.), learning to use the grinder, starting to learn poultry cuts, and learning to use a steel to hone your knife. After a while, you would progress further into other aspects... but this is all ancient history. It doesn't always work like that anymore.

At any rate- yes, I'm definitely nice to our cleaners. We appreciate them more than they know.

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>>8076147
>>8076704
>>8076754
>>8076775

>>8076855
I would so suck your cock, but i'm not a chick sorry 8/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBNxGZP49ls

>shitposting fags in the most quality thread on /ck/ for months
Just go back to your McDonalds and Jack threads so we can get back on topic.

>>8076873
>The Butcher Sensei will learn you

Oar, you could plausibly consider, plausibly.

Goain to = burningman, again ~ Blahhh
Asking the Dali ~ Lama if he has any good smoke (He never does, say's he preferbs to smoke your stash, cheap fukker)

The Butcher Sensei
So what's the "new" butchers cut?
I'm was just sm0king a thought and realized that as what used to be considered scraps (wings, ribs, pterodactyls) now is in demand, what's the "new" butchers cut?
~ I dont mean then next trend, I mean something a real butcher these days may take home for dinner because -
A: Fuck that fuckin fuck cocksucker boss asshole, if he even tried then I wouldn't have 9 Delmonicos marinating in my frumunda, until I can quit this fucking job
B: A cut that has fell out of favor, if there even is one, I assume it would be ground into mince

Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.

>>8076847

are you a negro? because you are getting it wrong.

i axed you a question.

>>8076968
Hm.. most steaks now are known and purchased (even if it does suck).

I think the cuts that resonate the most with me are the rib cap steak and sirloin cap steak. If I'm on a budget and I need steaks, the sirloin cap steak is always a go-to. If I've got some coin to burn and it's a special occasion, that rib cap steak will definitely lend to an absolutely golden dish.

Another noteworthy cut is the ribeye fillet.

>>8067574
>thus running probably a third of the blade into his stomach (he weakly stated "hah, I caught it" upon doing so)

Hah, dude sounds like a funny guy. Good he was able to recover.

So. I am very familiar with deconstructing a whole chicken. I've done it several times before. But, is it tantamount to deconstructing a turkey?

Turkeys are bigger, nearly the same price but, I've never done it before. Do all the same principles apply? Dislocate the sockets in the thighs...find the butter line between drumstick and thigh...you know, all that shit I've been doing with chickens.

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>>8076732
>>8076755
>>8076777
>>8076801
pic related
Thank you very much Mr. Butcher. I saved it all that so I could have it for posterity. I appreciate your willingness to share so much.

I will take all of your information into account when designing my dream shop. I will have a plaque dedicated to the most badass trip on /ck/.

What do you drink when you cook/eat your Sirloin?

>>8076993

most steaks now are known and purchased

Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.

Errr ... 8)

I posted that as I did because I had a feeling
that you were honest.

>>8076665
Ya the beef tongue prices are getting ridiculous. Thank god I live in farm country for beef. Tho it went from 1.99 to 3.99.

I mean it's great that people are using offal more, but I wish the prices stayed the same.

>>8077001
Dude was a class act, he really was. We were actually really worried that he would have ruptured something more serious. He missed the important vitals by a good margin though.

He claims the doctor said, "If you don't call them now to tell them you need bedrest for the next few days, I'm going to write a note that says you need a walking catheter with a bag for the next week." - we received a call letting us know shortly after he awoke from surgery that he needed some time off to recover. It always seems to be the comedians that suffer the most...

>>8077002
They're pretty much the same thing. Think about it being a really big chicken. In theory, it is actually easier to work on the turkey because the joints are larger. The main difference is that some turkeys have thick enough bones/cartilage that it's hard to work with some of them. I was taught it's better to remove the keel bone than it is to try to cut through it. If you have a cleaver on hand, this doesn't really matter though. Just make sure you're comfortable enough with your knives (and that they're sharp enough) before you try to do anything like that.

>>8077007
You've got it anon. If you need anything else, let me know. I'll keep that information aside incase I need to reference it for further additions.

I'm a simpleton at times. I often drink water with my steaks to savor the flavor. If I'm drinking alcohol, it's typically a beer. Often a bitter beer to offset the flavors that I get from my meats. If it's a holiday, I am likely to pair my meat with a moderately dry red wine or a shallow pour of Scotch.

>>8076992
Yes you did.
~and iz diz 2u's, u no listen Ke-mo sah-bee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHqjGl0Z_w

>>8077038
The cost of raising the livestock is going up too, so it's been a double edged issue for many places. It's even worse when there's not a rural area surrounding you. Our beef prices have stayed moderately low for this reason- but more people keep moving into our locality and the farms cannot keep up with the demand... therefore prices are shifting upward.

>>8077101
No worries

Fuck off.
This is Meat Sensei's thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ND_fwX2fM

Meat is the word

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>>8076844
Thank you very much I'll trim the fat then. Some of the caps are in excess of 3-4" thick so I figured I could safely trim a bunch. Appreciate all your work here!

And thanks for the kudos >>8076825
for >>8076160 Beef Stew is one of my favorite dishes to prepare so I had good experiences with that. :D

Have some homemade bacon I made last month!

>>8077101
Very true... You have to admit tho the best tongue is from a calf.

Where are you from butcher bro?

>>8077209
That looks very nice!
I hope you'll share your brisket with /ck/, because now I'm looking forward to your results.

The butcher is out, but I'll answer answer your question (>>8077234) and anyone else's when I get back from work today.

OP, you've said in this thread that you've never worked/carved South American cuts, and Mexican cuts in the last one. But, have you ever tried any of those? Brazilian barbecue/grilled meat/carne asada/churrasco seems to be pretty popular, as do its Mexican/Texmex equivalent, and I was wondering what was a professional meatmonger's opinion on them.

>>8078170
Also, thanks for these threads, they're great, and a breath of fresh air amidst all the bullshit around here.

>>8067302
How do you like your steak?

>>8077444
for sure. It's brining as we speak after doing some major fat cap trimming. Turns out that slab had a metric shit-ton of fat cap. i probably trimmed a good 3-4lbs of fat off that slab easy.

The butcher is in.

>>8077234
I'm from the east coast.

The calf tongue is definitely the most tender tongue. Probably the most flavorful too. Though I've had people argue that the veal tongue is more flavorful...

>>8078170
I have only had a small handful of the various cuts from around the world. If you're using it for a traditional dish, the cut works out pretty well. If you're trying to use a foreign cut for some other purpose, it often doesn't seem to work quite right (braising/broiling carne asada, for example).

That being said, traditional dishes are often incredible; but it's hard for me to weigh in on if they're cooked properly, as it is not my area of expertise. I can tell you that they often taste good though.

>>8078185
Glad to be of service.

>>8078282
If I trust the restaurant, I will have my steak cooked medium rare. If I do not trust the restaurant, I will have my steak cooked medium. I've only had food poisoning a few times, and one of them was from a middle/high class restaurant that messed up my medium rare steak (probably unclean surfaces in the back, in all likelihood). I was messed up for a day or two, so I haven't tried ordering medium rare meat from any place that I haven't been to before or that I don't know the chef.

A slightly more tender and juicy steak is rarely (if ever) worth the possibility for food poisoning...

>>8078688
Briskets are known for that. Especially high grade ones. The point end is often full of junk, but the end result makes it all worth it.

>>8078912
Both are bro. On the DL, I'm friends with my local butcher, and the calf tongue I get, is free sometimes. Just because they don't want that going to waste lol

>>8069530
You're not sticking it to the man, you're sticking it to the workers and customers

>>8067302
My family and I get together to make sausage, liver pudding, and hash every year. Simple shit with caveman cuts of meat. like ~300 lb of boston butts. Either way I enjoy breaking down the meat more than eating it. What does it take to become a butcher? TIme? Training? Licenses?

>>8078990
Lucky stuff man. I would have loved to have gotten some hookups myself; sometimes the venders are good, but most of them don't really bring anything in for us to sample.

>>8079155
Time, training, and some knife skills. That, and some money to get everything together. Some places will give you knives while you're learning, but some places expect you to come in with your own knives. In processing plants, you're supposed to wear a chainmail apron, chainmail sleeves, and chainmail gloves to help keep yourself from accidental cuts. Shit is nuts (and kind of heavy after a long day).

There are some books you can read if you're interested in learning more about butchery. I'm not sure if there are additional licenses that you would need in order to run your own shop, as I've always only been an employee at a location rather than owning it myself.

I do know, that you should be food safety certified and have a few other safety certs. First aid and CPR are also highly desired traits in the field- if you have them, good.

Knowing how to sharpen and hone knives properly is also really important- if you've got that in your pocket already, that would be helpful.

>>8079155
>>8079203
Nice, Thanks man.

>>8079203
Have you ever considered running your own shop or would all that management bullshit ruin the magic?

>>8079534
I've thought about it plenty of times. However, the startup costs are monumental. Especially if you intend to have an actual storefront instead of just selling out of a freezer truck or having a "store" in your attached garage/part of your house.

The last time I priced out a relatively simple operation, I think the outright purchasing costs were around $200,000 for the space I would need, the equipment I would need, my certification testing, etc. and finally to buy my first inventory.

Granted, a good department in a grocery store can make approximately $10,000 in a day, so if I was open every single day I would theoretically break even by the time the year was over considering my salary and whoever else would work with me. But the chances of me matching a grocery store (on my own in a smaller shop) is incredibly unlikely...

If that is the case, it would take me three to four years to match my initial investment- but after that, it would have the chance to be rather profitable.

I'd rather let someone else run the shop, order the inventory, make selections for sales, etc. than have all of the pressure of the finances, sales, taxation, marketing, advertisement, etc. fall solely on myself.

tl;dr version:
The management aspects and the excessive pressures of running a business would probably take its toll on me- I'm better off doing what I'm doing for the time being.

I can always do some side dealing if I wanted to out of my house anyway. I'd just need to report income at the end of the year on my sales/transactions (bummer).

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Maybe you can help me, Butcher. I'm cutting down some fat to render and came across this weird squishy light brown thing. It came out of the spot where I'm pointing to with the knife. It squishy and when i dug it out it came open and the inside is really gelatinous/jelly, but...I've never encountered anything like this before, any idea what it could be?

>>8079965
CHOOSE LIFE

>>8080081
uhh what, now?

>>8079965

It was probably a lump/growth of some variety. The other possibility I can think of is a lymph node... But it would need to have been infected or swollen with blood to look like that.

Weirder shit has happened. Sorry I can't provide you a better answer at the present time.

>>8079965
stab it with a knife, does it ooze pus?

Do you ever cut steaks from pork shoulders for people? People here in St. Louis bbq these religiously. Blows pork chops away.

>>8067302
Can I just walk into my butcher shop and buy a subprimal for myself? I've been wanting to experiment with dry aging my own steak.

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>>8081383
Not the official The Butcher, but that should be no problem if you ask a few days before you want it.

>>8081443
Well I was asking him, not you.

>>8081451
fuck off you bitch ass bitch. Don't waste his precious time on stupid ass questions when you can just dial the number to your butcher shop and ask them, besides asking someone who has no idea exactly what your butcher shop does. God some people are fucking twats.

>>8081468
Most of the questions in this thread could have been answered by people calling their butcher shops, so nice logic there Patricia.

>>8081487
most of them still aren't butcher shop specific, and you're the only one being a prick to people trying to help you, fuck off wanker.

>>8081499
You're buttmad as fuck. I like it.

>>8080904
Nope, it was just gelatinous inside, almost looked like gravy but not runny at all

>>8080575
I didn't think it was anything, I had just never seen something like it before

>>8080933
Definitely. However, we only do it when a customer asks for them. Shit is cash if it's cooked right.

>>8081383
>>8081443 Is right. So long as you give your local shop a few days (or sometimes two weeks, if it's a hard item to order), we typically don't mind ordering in a subprimal for you.

Know that dry aging is a very specific situation, and you need to make sure that you follow everything to the T if you expect your steaks to turn out like they would in a steakhouse/butcher shop.

Climate control and humidity control are huge in this aspect.

Do you know Scot Rea?

>>8082545
the kosher market had chicken skin this time.
gonna make some gribenes and schmaltz

If you have jews in your area you should make schmaltz and sell it. easy money

>>8082552
I've seen some of his videos, but I don't know him.

>>8082565
Glad to hear you got your hands on some skins. I'll see if my shop is interested in carrying it. I know they haven't really taken much of a strong market toward those of Jewish faith. I've also been tempted to tell them to start marking anything kosher-friendly to be marked. We've had some halal meat come too- but we never market it as such. It just goes out with the regular meats... crazy.

>>8082653
an 8 oz jar typically sells for 12-15 nowadays, which you can get from ~2 pounds of chicken skin.
If you aren't doing anything else with the skins might as well.

Marking things as kosher friendly would probably be significantly harder on the store as well due to all the regulations regarding kosher meat.

There are up and coming/ popular restaurants that are going back to using animal fats, you have Ivan Ramen and Mission Chinese to name two that use schmaltz. Im starting to see more places offer duck fat roasted potatoes.
I think between that trend and things like paleo and keto (high protein high fat) animal fats are going to regain some popularity in the next couple of years

>>8082565
>If you have jews in your area you
https://soundcloud.com/shittyasshari/hot-jews-in-your-area

>>8082719
pretty into that.
thanks for the link

What should I do with all these fish dicks?

>>8082781
put them in your mouth

>>8079965
CANCER GTFO

Me and a friend have tried to dry age beef using a spare fridge, with decent results. I want to try to increase the time to 4 weeks, but my friend claims that even 7 pounds of meat will lose too much at that point to be useful. Is he right?

>>8083008
Restaurants have done experiments with extremely long aging and apparently it has gone very well. It's a very specialist thing, though.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/mar/11/extreme-aged-steak-meat-with-mould-on-gourmet

>>8076755
>It is also helpful if your cases can open from the front (lifting upward) for the sake of cleaning the cases at the end of the night and for making those windows sparkle. Kids will suck and ruin the exterior of the glass- it happens every time; sorry.

Actually, it's the adults who smear up the glass. They like to point and they touch the glass, even if they're just looking and considering a purchase. "Look at this, look at that." Can I help you? "I want that one." <pointing at the glass> I have no idea what they're pointing at but you learn to read their minds over time.

The kids like to poke their fingers into the meat out on the shelves. It's some kind of strange fascination.

Funny story: there's an ice bin in front of the seafood department to merchandise bags of mussels, clams, containers of crab meat or whatever. When the parents aren't paying attention, some of the kids grab a handful of ice and eat it. Their parents are absolutely horrified when they catch them in the act. LOL

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>>8077444
As promised here is the brisket after about a 13 hour smoke. Fork shredded and ready for sammiches

>>8082666
Duck fat is pretty popular around here right now- but only in upscale restaurants.

I'm hoping you're right about fats being popular again. Not only from a profit perspective- but also from a flavor perspective. My friends who cook always say that the reason nothing tastes as good as it used to is because we're using all modern ingredients instead of keeping recipes traditional.

Our halal/kosher meats come in labeled, stamped, and signed. However, we don't typically originally order it as such. We end up with it when the supply company we use run out of regular beef. They need to provide us with something in the end, so it's their loss anyway.

>>8083008
I am not sure of the conditions that the meat will face in your refrigerator, so it is hard for me to guarantee how well it would fare at 4 weeks. Assuming it is at the back of the fridge (staying pretty cold and not getting much heat from the outside when the door is opened), I would guess that the meat would fare pretty well at 4 weeks. I know that all of our meat is at least 5 weeks old before it hits our retail case.

We put entire subprimals in our coolers when we're doing our dry aged meats, and we lose about 2-4 pounds of the total weight by the end of the aging process. However, those are pieces that originally weighed anywhere between 17-21 pounds.

If your overall beef climate (humidity, refrigeration control, etc.) are good enough, I would suspect a loss of 2 pounds total weight. Remember that you only need to shave off the meat that is discolored and some of the pure white fat from the meat before serving. Don't cut any deeper than you need to.

>>8083256
This is absolutely true. It's not easy to keep the conditions prime for a long aged bit of meat like that unless you actually have an aging refrigerator/unit. They're specially made to ensure that the conditions are always perfect.

>>8083644
I do have some customers that have excessively pointy fingers that seem to love smearing up my glass. You definitely have a point there. However, I also have kids coming through the store that do the same as the adults in addition to putting their hand on the glass and walking from end to end of the case. I don't know if it's because the cases are cold and it's warm outside or if it's because they're kids doing whatever they do for whatever reason. I guess I notice the kids more because when they want to be reckless and ruin the glass they're really good at it. The adults also mostly seem to mark the glass in the middle and higher region of the glass which is easier to clean- whereas the kids mark it lower or almost at the base of the glass, which stinks to clean. I essentially need to get on my knees to get those low spots because the reach is just too far out of my standing reach.

>>8083681
Looks great. Thanks for sharing anon.

>>8067302
In my restaurant we mostly serve ribeye and NY strip, we've recently tried some different steaks with much success. First we've been doing a prime top sirloin baseball cut. Beautiful presentation and just a damned yummy steak period. We've also tried teres major and as well it's been real popular but I've tried them a couple of different times and while tender just have little to no flavor. I know it's cut from the same area as the flat iron and we've had similar results with flat iron. Do you get a lot of people asking for these cuts from the chuck? If so any suggestions on preparation to maybe impart some more flavor without just marinating the crap out of them so they just taste like something else? It's odd how much people are more interested in tender to the point they don't realize the steak doesn't have a whole lot of beefy flavor.

>>8084082
We sell flat iron steaks all the time. Teres major is a pectoral muscle- so think about the labor that it endures in the life of the animal. It produces a pretty lean piece of meat. Lean meats often don't have as much flavor as their fatty brethren. Tender meats, however, take other seasonings well- and therefore are versatile cuts.

We typically use pectoral muscle for stewing beef where I work because it's going to be soaking up a lot of other flavors during the course of cooking anyway. It'll get decently tender, and taste good too.

Instead of marinating, have you considered doing an herbal rub? Use some basil, parsley (for color), rosemary, and thyme while cooking those steaks in a grapeseed oil and butter mixture? If you haven't tried Finlandia (salted) butter yet, try some at home before taking it to your restaurant. It's more expensive butter- but that shit is cash.

*My store doesn't sell baseball sirloin, though I've tried to convince them it's worth the effort a few times... We'll see if they ever decide to cut some. I bet they'd sell.

>>8082666
>an 8 oz jar typically sells for 12-15 nowadays, which you can get from ~2 pounds of chicken skin.

Yikes! That's crazy expensive. I can buy a whole duck for pretty close to that price and end up with over 8oz of fat, plus the meat and carcass for stock.

The butcher will be out for about 10 hours. I'll be happy to answer any more questions you have for me at that time.

any advice for freezing meat? for 3-9 month usage. Basically I want to buy bulk packages of meat from costco and the like, but I don't want it to get shitted up in the freezer since I won't be going through it very quickly.

>>8083946
I definitely agree with your friend, though the way we raise our animals is definitely also part. we have also bred our veggies for hardiness and quantity over flavor. ie, most tomatoes are fucking gross and Red Delicious apples are vile.


>actually get kosher certified meat
>dont sell it as such

fuckkkk
i understand if they gotta meat order fulfilments but like on average kosher beef is sold at a 20% price increase.

>>8084268
consider investing in a vacuum sealer. no better way to ensure the quality of your frozen meat,

>>8084132
yeah its pretty bad, but considering how hard of a time i was having getting chicken skin i was considering it

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Is there any difference between rooster and hen meat?

On the farms there's just one or few roosters and a lot of hens. What happens to all the other roosters? Do we eat them? Is most of chicken we eat roosters?

>>8084383
most male chickens are killed early on because when grown up they fight.
the meat os supposed to be tougher and stringier but ive never tried it

>bone on, skin on chicken
>boneless, skinless chicken
>no boneless, skin on chicken
Why is this allowed?

>>8084401
>the meat os supposed to be tougher and stringier but ive never tried it

That's not really due to the difference in gender, rather it's how the chickens were kept on a farm. Meat chickens would be slaughtered at a fairly young age. Roosters and egg-producing chickens are kept around for other reasons and only get cooked when they're old. The old age is what makes them tougher.

The most flavorful chickens are castrated males, aka "capons".

>>8084417
>>no boneless, skin on chicken

Never heard of a ballatine before?

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>>8084442
Addendum. You can purchase stewing hens cheap, WHICH NEVER GET TENDER NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU BRAISE/SIMMER THE FUCKERS. Great for making broth though.

>>8084401
American-style intensive farming practises were adopted in my country in the early 90s, but many poultries were still running the old way, being females were raised for mother and/or egg-laying and males were castrated and raised for meat.
Castrated males have three benefits over regular roosters.

1) they're not aggressive/prone to fighting at all
2) they get huge pretty quickish, going from hatchling to slaughter-weight in about two months (USican breeds of chicken go from hatch to slaughter in about half the time)
3) tastier than (and also nearly as tender as) hens

The downside today is that castrated roosters have grown hugely pricey in comparison to other meat chickens which are raised using the American method.

>>8084442
>>8084627
huh
learning new shit every day
thanks

>>8084627
those are called "capons" if you're trying to look for them.

>>8084735
>because english is spoken in all butcher shops in all the world!!!

>>8084742
"capon" is french, dipshit

>>8084903
>he honestly believes that it's french!!!
There aren't enough lols in the world to express my reaction to your immense stupidity, my fat, American friend.

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>>8082565
Forgot to measure it, but got a decent amount of schmaltz. Some crispy gribenes to munch on as well.

>>8084268
I would also say (as >>8084329 did) consider getting a vacuum sealer. If you're going to freeze in a sealed bag, the product is better protected from contaminants and also has a better chance to resist freezer burn.

If you're vacuum sealing, you could also make break down the larger pieces so you can unfreeze just what you need instead of trying to figure out when you're going to use an entire piece... Trust me, vacuum sealers will be your best friend for trying to save product for as long as possible.

>>8084298
I know we could get more money (your 20% is pretty close- I've heard 25% for our area is the accepted mark-up for kosher certified), but our head of marketing doesn't want people to think that we will always have kosher items; therefore we sell them as regular steaks. It doesn't hurt us any, only the supplier takes the hit because he didn't have what he was supposed to have on hand for us. We're one of his largest clients, so he has to make sure that we're satisfied. The cost to him is barely any different... the beefs that are being prepared in a kosher style are all done at the same time in a series to make sure that everything is as efficient (and cheap) as possible.

>>8084383
What the other anons (>>8084442, >>8084472, >>8084627) have said is true. Old chickens are old chickens. Testosterone is said to have some effect on the meat, but I haven't had an old rooster before; so unfortunately I cannot weigh in on this professionally. The meat flavor/tenderness depends on how it was raised.

I do know that capons are delicious, and that old hens are pretty much "stewing birds" and sometimes "roasters" (as they call them locally). They're often large birds that don't sell for much.

>>8084417
There is such a thing as boneless, skin on. It's not very common in my area, but I've seen it. Most places don't carry it, and often if you get it- you have to buy a boned part and have it boned.

>>8084903
No, it's from Latin.
Capon is called "chapon" in French.

>>8067302
What is the most underrated cut of meat?

>>8086034
I guess it really depends on what your application for the meat will be. I could say something like cheek/jaw meat, neck meat, oxtails, etc. Because if you use them properly, you can have an amazing dish. However, I'm going to focus specifically on a specific cut of meat that deserves praise for its utilitarianism as well as its flavor.

That being said, I find that the most underrated cut of meat has to be the sirloin steak. I think it's the tipping point in the animal for price vs. flavor/tenderness; therefore it's probably one of the best cuts of meat in the animal. Its general leanness and lack of prestige on cooking shows makes it sell like a lesser cut in my local area. We had full sirloins on sale (with the sirloin cap attached) recently as a buy one get one type deal, and we had to throw quite a few of them away after a few days because no one wanted them... top butt sirloin (sirloin steak) is very versatile. You can cook them almost any way you want and you can also grind it if need be and still get a reliable product.

I know steakhouses and restaurants often have them- but it's the "I want steak, but don't want to pay top dollar... hmm, what do I get?" copout steak It should really get a little more credit than it does- especially if you've got some of the sirloin cap meat attached to your steak. That stuff is the bomb.

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The 'groid supermarket near here sells the cut on the far right of this scan of their circular as butter steak. Searching for 'butter steak' online to find out just where on the animal it comes from just turns up pictures of steaks with butter on them.
wtf is butter steak?

>>8086162
That must be some regional lingo. I can honestly say I've never head of it before. Can you give me more information about said cut? Is the price listed?

I'm trying to look at the grain, shape, etc. of the cut to figure it out- but pricing would be super helpful. The picture is sort of wonky (as almost all ads are due to the cost of printing them without pixilation); so I'm second guessing myself.

Also, does this shop typically sell select beef or choice?

>>8067302
What's your opinion in extensive dry aging?

>>8086231
It depends on what you consider to be excessive. I find that places that age their beef more than 100 days are often stuck-up as well as brazen in their speech about their product. Of course, properly aging any meat is a craft- however, you don't neat to beat your customer over the head with it...

The meat does get progressively more tender, but I find that 4-5 weeks is ample time for a good aging to take hold on the meat for a tender and flavorful product. 4-5 weeks also means that you're not waiting around for too much longer than a month in order to experience what you've created. Some steak shops take a year or so to get theirs completely aged. The losses, by that point, are substantial- but the steak is an extremely tender morsel... so I guess you get what you pay for.

Again, I think 4-5 weeks is sufficient- but if you want to try to age it further, be my guest.

>>8086198
This shop and others like it cater almost exclusively to 'groids IE ghetto-ass blacks so it sells the lowest quality beef permissible. I've only ever seen "butter steak" in 'groid stores, never at regular supermarkets or butcher shops.

Its price varies from $3.99 to $5.99/lb, but that's not helpful because 'groid stores are overpriced as fuck since 'groids don't have cars and are too lazy to shop outside of their immediate area. For example, lots of these sorts of stores buy dollar store items and sell them marked up to $1.50 or $2 each because the 'groids won't shop anywhere else and they don't care about wasting their foodstamp money.

Anyway, about the meat: I've tried it when a I went with a black friend of mine to a get together her family was having and I had it there. It's lean, little-to-no intramuscular fat, but has a large piece of jelly-like gristle in the middle, as you can see in the pic.

The 'groids buy it for 4th of July and other grilling holidays and eat their tough as fuck """""""""""""steaks""""""""""""" with their bare hands or just a fork because a knife won't cut the fuck through it. The shit's tougher than a woodpecker's lips. I think it'd be pretty much only good for stewing or braising, but I've never bought it so I can't be sure.

I'm just curious where on a side of beef the shit comes from.

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>>8086279
I've had a conflicting view from a friend of mine about this, but I'm pretty certain that the cut shown in the picture is a chuck tender steak. There is light marbling (or almost devoid in select meats and lower), and the center of each steak has a bit of tendon going through it which should be cut around when serving (just like the tendon in a chicken tenderloin).

My friend claims to have seen a similar steak (butler steak, often misspelled at butter by stores) which would be the flat iron steak. The flat iron, when improperly cut, has an extremely dense and inedible middle portion to it. The muscle clod should have room for three steaks, but only two are edible due to the center being a total turd of a steak (all of that fibrous crap on top/bottom).

I'll attach a chuck tender steak to my picture for reference, since you've had these cuts before. I'm pretty sure that this is what you've eaten though.

>>8082653
Kiwi chef reporting again. Sorry for not responding to the demi question, couple of back to back doubles has kept me well busy.

>>8070624
Some instant or powdered preparations aren't terrible, but in my experience, which is not exhaustive, there is no substitute for time and skill.

Anyway, fucnfact about halal meat.

All the lamb slaughtered for export in NZ is accredited halal as the Middle East is a major market and this is just easier.

However, we also have strict animal welfare laws, and everything slaughtered here must be stunned (usually captive bolt).

This seriously winds up the fanatics who see it as killing the animal before you draw the blood off, and as such totally haram.

tldr; all the lamb from NZ is technically halal according to some Islamic accreditation body, but other Muslims see this as a major betrayal of their faith.

>>8086260
Nice, thanks.

>>8086410
Interesting. I had no idea that the stunning of an animal was considered "death" by some... I'll have to check into how our halal beef is procured/slaughtered. I guess it's a good thing we don't advertise it when we have it for fear that it might not be led to slaughter the right way for all to believe it a sufficiently certifiable death for their beliefs.

Most of our lamb comes from the western states of the US or from New Zealand. Evidently your crops of lamb/veal are top notch. Lucky kiwis... (good place to be a chef, I'd reckon)

>>8086423
Glad to help mate.

>>8086552
Now I have absolutely nothing against religious types in general, but some of the more extreme ones can get pretty crazy.

And it is not the ones here who have a problem, I imagine there would be even less of a problem there...

And f*ck the ones who have a problem with humane killing. If you don't respect what you slaughter and eat you are of no concern to me. whatever your 'reason'.

This is the only bump I will give the thread if there are no further questions.

In that event, thanks for your interest and for your questions /ck/. It's been great hearing your stories and your culinary ambitions thus far, and I hope to hear more again in another thread.

-The Butcher

>>8083946
Wait, you don't get rid of the dry parts on the outside?

>>8067302
Whilst I'm happy that lamb hearts cost jack shit due to low demand, thus leaving more for me to buy up and roast for delicious lamb goodness, I have to wonder what your opinion is on why demand is so low?

My personal theory is that people are so used to being able to just buy anything and everything these days that the idea of eating hearts, liver, kidneys etc is just weird to them.

Great thread btw

>>8087615
primarily that. People have been conditioned by cultural trends for the last ~50 to 60 years that organ meats are gross and icky
People are childish and dont like eating outside of their comfort zones.
these are the same people who dont like seeing meat that looks like its part of an animal

>>8087635

Yep, 100%.

>>8086365
>I've had a conflicting view from a friend of mine about this, but I'm pretty certain that the cut shown in the picture is a chuck tender steak.

I'm pretty sure you are correct. That would have been my answer. The price and demographics fit the bill.

Also, here's an underrated cut of meat for you: bottom sirloin/ball tips/sizzle steaks. A little tough but full of flavor. We don't have them anymore and I miss them.

>>8087585
I do (that would be the "shave off the meat that is discolored and some of the pure white fat" portion of >>8083946). I just mentioned that you don't want to shave off more than you have to. The dried up meat on the exterior is a different color than the meat on the interior. You just need to cut off the dried/off-colored meat in order to enjoy the tender steaks.

>>8087615
The demand is low for essentially the exact reasons you've mentioned. Most people under 40 don't have any interest in eating offal/organ meats. My oldest living relatives hate organ meat, chicken wings, and other 'spare cuts' (as they call them) because it's what they had to eat during the depression when there wasn't anything else to be had. So there's essentially many people in their mid-40's through their 70's that love offal, and there's many people in their 80's/90's that won't eat it, and there's many people under 40 that won't eat it.

Your market for purchasing these pieces is pretty solid right now, though I can tell you I've seen a trend of raising prices of offal in recent months... I don't know if it will make it to the counter or not- but enjoy what you're getting for the cheap rate while you can. Who knows- the price might level out in our books and the price could stay the same...

>>8088176
That's the truth. Those steaks aren't the most tender, but they've got some flavor to em. That's why most people grind that cut up for ground sirloin. Cheaper, yet flavorful and moderately lean.

Hi. >>8069109 again.
Went shopping for brisket the past two days and was very disappointed when I couldn't find one up to my standards. So my question is this: does a side of beef arrive to the butcher shop completely intact IE with the skin and fat all attached or does the abattoir remove the skin and trim the fat before shipping it out to the butcher?
I want some fatty brisket but yanks are fatphobic or something and shave several centimetres of fat from it which makes me very, very sad.
I ask because if better butcher shops get sides in intact, I can put in an order for brisket asking them to leave as much fat on it as they can.
Alternately, if the skin and fat gets removed at the abattoir, is there a fatty cut you'd recommend for beef soup with pasta/noodles?

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>>8089208
I'm afraid that it depends on two factors: If your local butcher is an actual butcher (has halves, quarters, etc.) or if your local butcher is serving the role of a meat cutter (gets boxed meat in from plants [i.e. a box of briskets] and then takes these subprimals and cuts them into roasts and steaks).

If the local butcher is a traditional butcher, it is likely that the hanging half will come in like pic related. The fat would be present, and there would likely be a bit of it to go around if need be.

If your butcher is serving the role of a meat cutter at his location, ask him for a full cut brisket or a whole brisket. You could ask for it to remain in the cryo-vac too if this is the case. Then they won't have a chance to take any of that delicious fat off of it.

>>8068767
I think it's just kind of a lazy pre-frenching kind of a deal.

>>8089226
The butcher shops I go to definitely have meat on hooks hanging in the back. You can see it through the double doors from the counter. The thing is, the pork is up front and I can only barely make out the beef further back and I can't tell if they're intact or not. I guess I'll ask, which is a pity because Chinese butchers are dickholes.

Guess I can ask at the hipster boutique butcher, too. But you're saying I can ask the supermarket butcher to just gimme a whole cryovac'ed brisket? Think they'll gimme a discount for buying the whole thing so they don't have to cut it (among my friends, I'm notoriously frugal)? Also, how much would an average whole brisket weigh? Thanks for answering!

>>8089208
If you have a Costco in your area, they're currently selling whole Prime Grade briskets with the plate and end cuts together at about 2.99 a pound with TONS of fat both on the out and inside of the brisket. Seriously I had to trim a good solid 3lbs of solid fat chunks off the brisket for the pastrami >>8083681
I made this weekend.

>>8089244
It's always a possibility. Typically when someone is trying to show a frenched spare rib/ribs in general, they'll take the knife the whole way across the ribs an inch or so from the bottom. Then again, perhaps you're right- it's an amateur style of frenching to try to draw attention to the ribs... I really am not sure why they would be doing that though.

>>8089248
If you have a half decent local store, yes. Sometimes they're not willing to sell full pieces- often the evening staff would be unable to help you with such a purchase. You would need to go in while a manager or someone who knows how to sell on an individual "wholesale"/"bulk" price level.

>>8089265 also makes a great point about Costco- they often have some good whole pieces on sale.

Typically you can save at least a dollar per pound by buying a full in-bag piece of meat. This happens because they don't have to pay anyone to process it.

>>8089248
>>8089271

Derp. Forgot to tell you how much they can weigh.

I've seen full briskets weigh anywhere from 8 to 13 pounds. I'm sure there are smaller, and have been larger briskets though.

>>8089265
I don't think there is one, but there's a BJ's here and a Sam's Club on the complete opposite end of town (22 miles away). Those are both basically the same thing as Costco, right? So even if it's not on sale there, I can get some fatty brisket, yeah?

>>8089275
>>8089271
Thanks for the info! A median weight of 11lbs would be fine. I could always cut the thing into quarters myself and freeze three of them.

>>8089348
They'll have big briskets, don't know how much they're trimmed.