Ask the Butcher

>>8020328


What's the hardest thing to learn related to the meat?, I mean, is there sn specific cut that you can ruin if you don't cut it properly?.

>>8020328
What state do you live in? I work in a butcher shop about 40 miles outside of Chicago and our tri-tip is very popular. yet most people who have never been to our shop have never heard of it. Is it a more Regional cut of steak? Is it popular out by you?

I work in the seafood department of a regional grocery store, I can accompany OP with seafood related answers

>>8020328
what is the most under rated cut of meat?

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>>8020328
More of a curiosity question: How did you got in the Butcher business? Would you reccomend it, how hard is it to get a license, ups and downs,etc....

Posting the meatiest pic I have.

>>8020342
That being said, I want to get into the meat department/butchery of my store

>>8020328

>If you're a haggler

If you're a haggler stay the fuck home, I get hundreds of customers a day I really don't have to give you a special deal on jack shit you penny pinching fuck

t. also a butcher

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Is it sanitary to buy a long ass ribeye and have it for dinner 3-4 nights the same week?

Follow up question: Do I need that special ass knife to cut through bone if i buy entire ribeye?

>>8020364
it's always fun when people unfamiliar with how grocery stores operate (i.e. europeans) try and haggle the price of my fish down. I can't touch the price.

my coworkers have been known to put a finger on the scale for customers who piss them off though

>>8020374

Right? Thing is, I CAN give discounts in a lot of circumstances. I can cut it up special, tie it with a pretty bow and write your name in chinese on the bottom of the bone and take 2 dollars off the price, but I'll be fucked if I'm gonna do that for some rude European that can hardly even speak English.

>>8020374
> Cause any european would want to buy your shitty meat
Greetings from germany you cunts

>>8020339
There's a lot of things you can ruin by cutting it wrong (in terms of how customers appreciate it or are willing to pay for it). I think the hardest thing to do as a butcher is to keep up with all of the cooking instructions and specialty cuts- such as the denver steak.

Since we live in a modern world where if we need to buy certain items (i.e. striploins) we can get them in instead of having to say "oh, sorry- the steer no longer has a short loin, so we cannot sell you new york strips or fillet mignon".

The flat iron and the hanger steak are two that are particularly interesting to cut, so I suppose that's what I'd answer for a ruinable cut.

>>8020340
I live on the east coast. Tri-tip roasts and steaks are often considered to be a Californian phenomenon. Other states are interested in it, but it's often CA residents visiting my shop that ask for it. It comes from a portion of the top butt sirloin and the sirloin tip.

>>8020342
Legit- thanks.

>>8020350
The most underrated cut of meat has to be the sirloin steak. For its price, it's probably the best cut of meat in the animal. However, its general leanness but lack of prestige on cooking shows makes it sell like shit in my local area. We had full sirloins on sale (with the sirloin cap attached) recently as a buy one get one type deal, and we often had to throw them away after a few days because no one wanted them... bummer. Sirloins are actually pretty good if you're not a complete slouch cooking. They're also versatile. You can cook them almost any way you want and you can also grind it if need be and still get a reliable product.

As an off-cut/request, ox tail and cheek meat are also underrated for what they can be used for.

>>8020380
While I can't give discounts, I CAN do things like weigh/tag the fish after I've skinned it so they only pay for the fillet and not for the skin.

other times I'll put in an extra large tare on the scale but that's only for really, really nice customers.

>>8020401
I don't sell meat ya dingus

>>8020411

I do the same.

>>8020409

>Sirloin

My nigga. Top shelf stuff right there, can be cooked in any dish, a good 3-4 dollars cheaper per pound than a strip steak here.

Had a friend of mine that pretends to be cultured with good taste and only eats ribeyes he inspects himself "For the marbling" he says. He's a fucking idiot and only does this shit to seem like he has taste in public, so when I served him a nicely marinated sirloin with my own spice rub on there it kicked his ass halfway to sunday.

>>8020353
Most times you need to go through an apprenticeship. You often get paid shit (or nothing; if you're forced to shadow) for your backbreaking labor while learning. Most shops employ meat cutters now (people who know all the cuts, but could not break down a full animal if they needed to). You start by learning about the grinder, then you get to learn about chickens, then you learn more and more complex (and expensive) items.

If you're interested in getting into it, there's a few books I could recommend- even if you just want to do some cuts at home.

>>8020364
I more rather meant for bulk buying; there's a lot of people who gouge prices in my area. Perhaps it's not like that everywhere else though. If I have offended your portion of the trade, I apologize. Obviously work costs and other factors go into what things cost; and I understand that too. I just don't want to see people getting reamed or taken advantage of- perhaps haggle was the wrong word.

>>8020368
I am unsure of what you mean by a long ass ribeye, but I'll take a shot at what I think you're asking for. Let me know if I've missed the point.

If you're cooking the entirety at once, I typically don't advise allowing meat in the fridge for more than three days (as I cannot be sure of the environment the product will be in). If you buy a large portion of ribeye that was cut fresh that day and you plan to cut bits off of it to cook every night, you could definitely do that. Just be sure to keep an eye on its condition while it's in your refrigerator. Also, remember that the lovely shade of red it is when you buy it will disappear, but it doesn't necessarily mean that your meat has gone bad.

If you buy a ribeye and need to get through bone, I would recommend a butcher's hacksaw. Knives are not meant to cut through the bone. Often in a shop the cutters will use a bandsaw with a guided cut gauge when cutting bone-in meats to make sure that the thickness is uniform throughout the steak.

>>8020339
>specific cut that you can ruin
I feel this is related somewhat.

One of our most popular fish is salmon. We typically have some variety on sale every week (arctic keta this week.)The problem is, customers /hate/ the tail end for some nebulous reason that escapes me.
So, more often than not they'll ask me to cut the tail end off or give them a center cut fillet.
By the end of the night my salmon tray is 70% tail cuts that weigh from ~.15-.50 lbs that no one wants to buy, and thus I can't sell. I can't really do anything else with them, so they just sit there for a day at which point I have to throw them out.

It's incredibly annoying.

>>8020435

Ay don't worry about my feelings, I'm talking about people who come in and march right back into the department and start yelling at me in arabic that they want 1 package of whatever marked down 50% for no reason.

Haggling with bulk purchases is standard practice and I'd be crazy to not take a bit of the cost away on an order for 300 split chickens.

>>8020443

>The problem is, customers /hate/ the tail end for some nebulous reason

Holy shit I thought that was just where I worked! We usually just wind up packaging the tails separately in group packages for cheap, I buy them all the time. Joke's on them, the tails are just fine and are even a little sweeter. People that know what's up will come in and ask for them specifically.

>>8020444
Yeah... everyone in a meat department definitely has *at least* one of those customers stories. I think my favorite was that I had a woman order six 2 1/4 inch center cut fillet mignon steaks. I presented her with her order, and she complained that they were too thick, "obviously the work of a lesser employee, because these are not 2 1/4 inches". She demanded I take a half inch off of each steak. Now I have 1/2 inch fillet portions sitting beside 1 3/4 inch fillet steaks. This in itself, would have been alright (aside from the fact that no one around here wants 1/2 inch fillets at full price)- but she demanded again that they were too thick. I cut off another 1/4 inch and she decided that they were now correct, but due to us wasting her time she demanded to be compensated with a lower price. My manager told her to get the hell out of our store unless she paid regular price because now we've wasted over a pound of product for HER miscalculation in her order.

Needless to say she didn't back down and the owner came over to "fix" the situation. She got her steaks for free, and was also given the portions of steak (6 1/2 inch fillets and 6 1/4 inch fillets) to go along with her. INDIVIDUALLY WRAPPED, I might mention.

Gotta love that entitlement!

>>8020443
>>8020448

It works the same with fillet tails at my shop. It's delicious meat, excessively tender and takes well to seasoning... they just don't like the appearance or seeing "tail" or "ends" written on the package.

>>8020328
Just today i bought 2.2kgs of Angus rib eye from probably the best butchery in my city? Any recs on what to do with it? I'm not the best cook and have a very limited knowledge about cooking meat
Also how expensive is Angus and Wagyu ribeye in your shop? Shit is expensive af everywhere

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>>8020460
>>8020444
People at my store are illiterate, and thus think we sell our .25lb halibut steaks at $11 a pound, when in actuality they're sold per steak.
Without fail they develop a smug demeanor and put on a shit-eating grin, like they're the Wolf of Grocery Stores

then they throw a fucking fit when I hand them a package of halibut and a tag for $125.

>>8020467
I would think salmon tails would be better because they're much more even and consistent in their sizes and each half is roughly equal in size/weight/thickness, so it'd cook more even and you wouldn't have an extra flap of skin (aka the belly) you'd have to cut off anyway.

>>8020435

Explain what you mean by being unsure about a long ass ribeye. Can't a ribeye steak be as long as the ribs of the animal and you partition it off depending how much i want to buy?

Is there a certain time of the month or whatever that is best to get good prices on meats? or what is the best price:quality ratio as far as cuts go? i've been buying a lot of it lately and would like to know if theres any way to save a bit more money

>>8020488
We actually only stock wagyu new york strips when we get any at all. Wagyu strips are approximately $45/lb. We also do not carry Angus beef as a general rule; instead we go by grading. If it happens to be Angus, all the better- but as a general rule it's grass and corn fed beefs from Canada. Everything is *at least* choice in our store, and we do not generally uncharge for prime meats that end up in the service case. If it's a special order for prime meat, we'll open up a case and pick the finest piece of the lot for your steaks- and if it meets prime grading standards, we will uncharge due to the fact that there are now four or five other pieces of the same meat that will need to be sold in a hurry in our regular cases.

Our ribeye steaks are typically around $16 or $17/lb. For what they are, it's usually a steal of a deal. That, and we will also cut to any thickness you want- whether it's a quarter inch, a six inch roast, or a whole ribeye.

As far as cooking, I would typically say that if you have a 2.2kg (almost a 5 pound) ribeye, that your best bet would be to cook it as a roast. I was always told "low and slow" is the best way to prepare a ribeye roast, however, I'm also do not possess a culinary degree- so it could be up to interpretation. I can say that rib roasts are devilishly good, and are most times purchased around major holidays (namely Christmas).

Other options include: a) bone the roast and make delmonico/boneless ribeye steaks and beef spare ribs, or b) french the rib bones and cut into thick "Texas Style" ribeyes.

>>8020507
That's what I figured you meant. We usually count by the rib or the thickness (measured in inches) rather than the length; I'm not sure that I've ever had a customer say, "I need a long ribeye" (e.g. "I need a six rib ribeye" or "I need a seven inch rib roast"). It's a small difference from what you said, but it's one of those stupid industry lingo deals. I just wanted to be sure I was thinking of the product in the same way that you were.

You can definitely have it be a full ribeye if you wanted or however many ribs you're looking to buy. At least, that's how it works at a full-service shop. Some locations don't have meat cutters in them and only sell pre-portioned sizes of meats/pre-trayed meats from their locations.

>>8020518
There's not really a better time to come into a shop than others unless you know their delivery schedule and it's a tried and true butcher shop like the olden days. Most shops employ older butchers, but almost everyone I've met under 40 has never worked with a real animal, just from the boxes which allow you to have the exact portion of the animal you're looking to cut.

Since the shelf life of shrink-wrapped meats can be up to two months, it's unlikely that you will ever find your local purveyor of beef at a disadvantage during that time that they'd need to do a major purge/sale.

If it is an old school local butcher and you know when his beef came in, you can typically figure out when his meats are starting to turn- that's when you'd want to pounce for an offer. It's better for him to take a slight cut and have a happy customer than for him to waste it all.

I think that the best cost/quality ratio in the animal has got to be the top butt sirloin (sirloin steak). Often you can find sirloin on sale under 8 dollars a pound, or at bogo prices in stores that render similar effects. If you get them, try to make sure they have their cap attached (sometimes called steakhouse sirloin, sometimes called sirloin strip, sometimes called sirloin cap steak). That is one of my favorite bits of the animal. Typically they feature good marbling, are quite tender, and have great flavor.

Sometimes you'll even see that cap piece on sale by itself in a package. If you see them at a similar price to the regular sirloin, jump on it and you won't regret it.

>>8020540
Ty senpai, much appreciated. I happen to live in Chile (south American meat is pretty good from what I've heard) so hopefully it will be good.

>>8020518
Additionally, some stores offer "reduced price" sections where the meat has lost its bloom (the red color that appears directly after cutting the steak and lasts for any odd length of hours). Once the bloom disappears and the steaks turn brownish, a lot of people scoff at them and write them off as spoiled or old. Believe it or not, some steaks can lose their bloom in less than a few hours if they are packaged too tightly or have other meats placed on top of their package (fillet mignon is a prime example of this).

Due to this trend in customer purchasing, some stores now have a small section (often slightly separated from other like product) where they will mark down items from the department that look less than the standard picture-perfect steaks should. This also applies in some stores to packages that are vacuum-sealed from their source (such as bacon). When there's a vacuum seal that isn't perfectly tight, they might make the reduced bin as well.

It's always worth a shot to see if your local shops have them. Especially if you know they were cut recently by someone in the back room. They're often honest if you ask them too- if it was cut a day or two ago, they'll likely tell you so; especially if it's in the bin and they want it sold!

>>8020443
Asian guy here. If there's a significant Asian population in your area, try selling them your salmon tails. If you're not finicky about eating particular parts of the fish, the heads and tails are great grilled or in stews.

>>8020409
do you guys tend to give away things like chicken heads and stuff for free or at least under five bucks. just any super discarded pieces no one wants. I want to ask my local butcher for some but I'm embarrassed to ask

>>8020774
yeah, this too, are there any like...super cheap cuts that might be interesting to eat that are usually just discarded/go unpurchased? I know that i can get beef suet, all the little fat trimmings, for 99c a lb most places but are there any other things like that? i'd love to try some new things

>>8020813

Not him, but the only novelty cuts sold at most supermarkets would probably be feet/gizzards, both of which are not nearly as cheap as you'd think.

Better off getting some pork on discount.

>>8020760

they also make good stocks

>>8020774
Unfortunately my shop deals largely in pork and beef, therefore there aren't many chicken parts to go around. We often discount cuts that aren't up to our standards, but nothing is ever free. We are one of the shops that use a discounted pricing area for anything that doesn't meet our requirements of a quality product for our customer.

That being said, SOME butchers do keep a 'toss bin' near their blocks that they will keep their fat and other 'undesired' bits in. I've been told that they will offer those items at a low rate, but nothing is really free anymore. It used to be that chicken feet, pig trotters, and chicken wings (yes, wings) used to be free because they were plentiful and no-one wanted them. But, since we live in the time of the almighty dollar, it's almost impossible to get freebies.

Marrow bones and knuckle bone are still relatively cheap if you're looking to extract marrow for spreading/eating or if you're looking to make a hearty beef broth. I think they can still be had at less than $3/lb.

>>8020813
The cheapest things I can think of that are available locally (aside from buying from the trim/fat bin), are probably all pork cuts. Almost all beef cuts, offal, etc. manage to get decent money. I think I've seen beef liver on sale for 1.99/lb a few times this year, but that's a rarity.

We regularly have pork for sale in the $2 range, but our premium pork cuts are around $7/lb. I know that's high for pork- but it's worth it. "Assorted" pork chops/variety chops, bone-in country style ribs and boneless country style ribs are decent meats that often show up in sales bins or go on sale. However, since people aren't as familiar with them they are sometimes not sold quickly... I'm not sure what your pricing is, but we drop those into the ~$2/lb range here.

I'll try to think of some other cuts as I'm at work today and get back to you if there are more I'm not thinking of.

what makes for the best pork chop?
ya know, the fried w/breadng kind
ty

also why cant I ever find pork bones for broth?

>>8020460
>the owner came over to "fix" the situation
>an owner undercutting their management staff like that

WEW LAD
E
W

L
A
D

this is the one thing I hate about America. Jesus fuck we need to FORCE our children to work a shitty customer service job for 6 months before they are allowed to graduate from highschool.

>>8021805
Pork chops are similar to beef cuts. The "pork loin" and the "short loin" are the same thing; just one is pork and one is beef.

That being said, the loin chop is the same as the porterhouse steak while the rib chop is the same as the t-bone steak.

Pork "sirloin chops" are the same as top butt sirloin (sirloin steak) from a steer.

The quick definition- loin chops (porterhouse) and rib chops (t-bones) are both tender and are essential the pork deviation of the New York Strip. Rib chops are with less (or no) pork tenderloin, and loin chops have a larger medallion of pork tenderloin (the same as fillet mignon for beef). These chops are what are considered as "white pork" by many.

The pork sirloin chop is considered by some to be "white and dark" because it has darker coloration in the lower center of the chop. They are also tender and are typically an economical purchase (just as the beef sirloin steak is).

If you're going to be flattening/tenderizing, breading, and frying the chops, I'd recommend using bits of the pork sirloin because it's inexpensive and still tasty. If you have money to burn, you could always use a thin-cut boneless pork loin chop and pound it out/tenderize it. A good shop will send anything you want through the tenderizer for free- so try to see if they'll do it for you. (We call these pork cutlets; then you can bread and pan/deep fry them at home).

I too have noticed an absence of pork bones in most stores. We carry them, but they're rare for most stores. As much of the pork bone as possible is left in the chops and roasts for extra weight. The bone also adds extra flavor, so it makes sense to leave them in the chops and roasts. Most times when you see a boneless roast (especially shoulder roasts), it arrived almost exactly like what it appears (without bone but possibly with a little more fat)- so there are no bones to put in the cases. You could always try pricing it at your local shop and placing an order if it's applicable.

>>8020591
This is a tough question to formulate, but what precautions or recommendations can you give about the color of the meat in packaging and if you should buy it?

A local supermarket seems to have recently started offering some meat that I would assume is not worth purchasing because of the outside color.

>>8021926
Thank you incredibly for the incredibly in depth response

I'll try to keep all that info in my noggin as I hit up my butcher next

The butcher will return around 8PM EST. Leave your questions in the thread and I will get to them when I return.

>>8022030
Sorry that I am unable to get back to you in a reasonable timeframe- I'm headed into work now. I'll give you a good answer to your question when I return home for the evening.

>>8022073
I'm glad I could be of service. Let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.

>>8020350
>he answered sirloin

If you don't know top sirloin then you don't know shit to begin with. The correct answer is chuck eye. Loads of flavor and cheap to boot.

I want to Cook Wiener Schnitzel but cant find any veal escalope meat in the Markets. Whats the closest to it that i Can get?

I'm not the butcher but I'm back

The butcher is in. Sorry I'm back a bit later than anticipated, but I'll be around tonight to answer questions again.

>>8022030
The coloration of meat is actually a pretty tricky and in depth topic of conversation. Basically, there are four different stages to meat in a typical grocery store. First, there's the color directly out of the cryo-vac: this color is a dark brown and is the color of the muscle before oxygen comes into contact with it. By the time you're done cutting your steaks, it's likely the meat will begin to enter the second (and most desirable stage). Second, the meat enters what is known as the bloom stage. The bloom is the hearty red coloration that the typical consumer has come to know as "fresh meat". Depending on the steak, its environment, and some other factors, this can last for hours up to a day or so. The third stage that follows is the return to a brownish/redish brown coloration. This does not mean that the meat is bad- in fact it is merely part of the natural cycle of the coloration of the meat. The fourth stage, and the one to watch out for- is the greying and greening of meat. In a store, greening meat or meat that has lost all coloring characteristics are put in a reduced area or are thrown out. Another possibility includes the potential for grinding... which is not done at reputable stores, but can happen at certain locations.

In theory, even into the last stage it is possible that the meat can be cooked- though it would need to be well done toward the last stage and it would be wise to trim the exterior of the meat before cooking. You wouldn't have to, but it would be safer from a food perspective.

The short answer to your question is the following: If the meat is red or reddish brown, you're definitely in the clear. If it's starting to lose all coloration, it could still be safe so long as it's within three days of when the meat was cut and you plan to cook it that day.

>>8022722

I answered sirloin because it often goes on sale in my area (and I assume others as well) for about $6 a pound or for sale as a buy one get one offer for a similar rate when the package prices are scaled out.

The chuck del/chuck eye steak is a steak that you get approximately two of per chuck roll, and it rarely even gets put out in the case at all. That being said, the regular price is also around $7/lb, and it almost never goes on sale. For the rate of sale that the top butt sirloin and sirloin cap steaks go on sale, I say they're the better bargain- especially knowing that they're almost always accessible.

From a pure culinary perspective, chuck meats are extremely flavorful due to their larger percentage of fat to their meat ratio- so it's true that they are very flavorful cuts.

>>8022751
The term escalope really just means that it's a thinly cut (pounded out) and boneless piece of veal. You could take almost any cut of veal you'd like to make Wiener Schnitzel- though I was always told a veal cutlet was what you really wanted. Veal cutlets at most of the local stores around where I live come from the top round, and is typically between 1/4 inch and 1/3 of an inch thick. You can pound it out further if you'd like and then bread it to make your schnitzel.

Let me know if you need another cut of veal to work with.

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I like to use chuck for stew and chili. usually I cut the Y shaped piece of fat out and then cube the rest of the meat, but sometimes instead of being a solid chunk there's just a bunch of slimy connective tissue barely holding the meat together. sometimes there's extremely tough sheets of gray shit stuck in there too. did I just pick out a bad roast when that happens? how do I identify a good one that's easy to cut up?

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>>8024213
Pretty much every steak or roast that you buy in stores is made up of multiple muscles. The chuck chuck roast is one of the roasts that are made of multiple parts. Each part that you are finding that is separated by connective tissue is one of the individual muscles that makes up the whole piece. Depending on the life of the animal, different levels of fat will be present (or not present) in different areas of the chuck roll (the piece that your chuck roast comes from). Another factor to consider, is where from the chuck roll your steak is coming from. Pic related is a late cut chuck roast, and looks different from what you've shown.

There's a lot that goes into selecting your meat at the store depending on how you're looking to cook it or use it.

To answer your question, it's not necessarily a bad roast- it's just likely from a different grade of cattle (or cattle from a different producer) than some of the "better" ones you're getting. The other likely possibility is that you're getting chuck roasts from different areas of the chuck roll.

To answer your last question, I'd like to know where you're getting your meat so I can try identify what grade of meat you're buying. That way I can help you select the best roast for your buck.

>>8024341
usually I get my meat from walmart because I'm in one of those food deserts and it's the only place within walking distance, but the last one I got that didn't seem very good was from a fairly up scale regional grocery store. usually I try to pick out one that has a bigger long part since it seems better for cutting up for stew, but that time the ones on the display were all too big so I asked the person at the counter to bring me a smaller one so I didn't get to choose.

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>>8024382

Interesting. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience at your (more or less) local grocer.

I tend not to trust Wal-Mart's meats due to many reports I've seen that mention the use of carbon dioxide in their packaging (helps prolong the bloom/redness of the meat, even if the steaks are getting old) in addition to their "enhanced with 15% solution" that used to be on their packaging (not sure if it's still there or not). That solution can be more than just water, but I'm not sure if this is still a common practice with their meats or not.

I am also not completely sold on Wal-Mart's "choice" grading- but perhaps that's just me.

All of that being said (and my possible bigotry for their products) if I was going to buy a chuck roast, I would look for one like the picture I've attached. I haven't had any Wal-Mart meats due to my work over the years, as meat has never been far from reach- so I cannot say for sure that their product is truly inferior. I know the price lines up right for many people, so I'm not going to knock it too hard.

If you're looking for stewing cubes, you could always use a bottom round/rump/top round too. The meat will have less marbling/flavor, but it's a lot of meat to eat. It's just another option if you're looking for savings whenever any of the meats are on sale.

The beef cubes/stewing cubes we sell are made from top sirloin, but the price certainly reflects that as well...

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>>8024513
I used to use top round, but I didn't like how sometimes it would have these cracks or something all through it and would fall apart while I was trying to cube it. I like using this circled part since it's firm and usually has some good fat in it.

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>>8024569
Yeah, that's something to watch out for with a top round. It falls apart into 3 sections depending on where it came off the whole piece (marked in picture).

If you decide to use it again sometime, I'd recommend separating the pieces out before you start cubing. That way you can also trim/clean it before the cubes enter their cooking vessel.

The part you have circled is definitely a good tasting bit of chuck though. That section of muscle definitely holds together better than the lower section. I could show you the breakdown of the muscles in the chuck if you're interested.

How much for a whole pig 100% prepared for roasting?

>>8020443
How odd, the tail is the best piece imho.

>>8024668

From what I've seen, the going rate for a whole pig (120lbs or more) prepared for grilling/bbq is about $2.49/lb around where I live. Depending on where you live, I'd assume the price could be anywhere from $2-3/lb. Typically, the smaller the animal, the more it costs per pound- so if you've got a larger gathering you might have a better deal coming your way.

Then again, it also matters if you have the right kind of farmers in your area or how friendly they or the butchers in your area are to work with. Sometimes they don't like to sell to anyone that isn't a wholesaler or a butcher shop... other times you find some farmers or breeders that are looking to sell some animals off the books ("oh, that pig died, it was a terrible loss for the farm"; while they pocket your untaxed dollars). Most farms are honest though, so I wouldn't imagine you'd find a farm that does that around where you live- but I know I've heard some tales around here...

>>8020328
are you the same butcher thats been posting here for years? Seem to remember a butcher when i browsed here like 4 years ago

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>>8024713
Indeed. I come pretty infrequently, and post much more rarely, but I do browse from time to time. Still have my old trip if I needed it- but I don't see many people posting with tripcodes anymore... I figured a general name would be good enough.

Pic related- it's a old picture of a deer in one of my friend's garages ready to be parted out that was a bump for an old thread.

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>>8024617
I didn't mean that the round was breaking into 3 big pieces, I meant that the meat fibers were pulling apart like it was already cooked corned beef. you can kind of see it in this picture.

>>8024705
Thanks. Me and a few friends wanted to put together a feast/potluck and the centerpoint was going to be a whole pig.

I know a place that sells pigs ready to cook, I'll call them tomorrow.

Wait it's acceptable to haggle with your butcher? I never knew butchers were haggleable

>>8024808
I regret posting it the way I did in my first post. It was more for bartering the price for BULK items, such as a full case of boneless ribeyes or for a case of top butt sirloins, etc.

A full-on haggle is *rarely* acceptable at any butcher shop or grocery store. The only people I know that barter/haggle on pricing is for the return of physical work- and then they'll take that money off of your total price.

For example, there's an old butcher shop close to where I live that the old man will pay you $10/hr or meat of equal value if you're willing to scrub down his block, his floors, and apply fresh sawdust after he's done working for the day. Trust me- it's better to just pay him what he wants. It's backbreaking work.

>>8024801
Best of luck.

>>8024765
I completely misunderstood your last post then- I apologize. I know exactly what you're talking about now. It happens sometimes. There's only one way you're meant to cut certain pieces of meat- there's a grain to the meat, and the meat also moves in the way the muscles moved in the body. Therefore, some cuts will tear themselves apart because you're going against the natural movement of the muscle you're cutting.

I'm headed out for the night. If there's more interest in the thread overnight I will return tomorrow to answer your questions.

>>8020353
You sometimes gotta literally go to every shop, large and small that you can find, and ask about starting internships

If they ain't sick of you by the end, there's a chance of getting hired, that's how I started up

Denver butcher of still fair newness

>>8020328
What do you think is the better way of cutting thin bones, a cleaver or a bone saw? I have relatively poor coordination so I don't usually like using cleavers, so I use a saw

But in your experience which make a cleaner cut with less fragments and bone dust to clean off?

>>8024513
Having started off with lamb and chicken, it fucking infuriates me when I see "contains up to 15 percent salt solution* in certain chains' chicken selections *cough*I'm looking at you Kroger and "Heritage"

Whats the solution they put in chicken? Does it cook out?

I want to get like 120 chicken legs and or thighs, is that considered bulk? How much should I expect to pay for that? At the grocery store chicken leg quarters are less expensive would it be the same at a butcher shop?

>>8020460
>I think my favorite was that I had a woman order six 2 1/4 inch center cut fillet mignon steaks.

By God customer interaction :/

From the opposite view, I often get asked something the equivalent of "you know that 2 1/4 is this thick right" and I want to go "I know how big an inch is you dense fucker" but if you're dealing with customers like that, I can understand if you want to make sure I'm not a retard before you start cutting.

>>8024513
>"enhanced with 15% solution"

Locally (not walmart) this is called "Neutral Marinade" and it gets on my tits something fierce. If I buy a pound of chicken, I want a pound of chicken, not 85 percent of a pound of chicken and then 15% of a pound of salt water.

Good morning /ck/- the butcher is in.

>>8025025
Good words on getting into the trade- that's definitely a viable method.

In regards to your question about working with thin bones, the cleaner cut comes from a saw, but the saw also generates additional bone debris that needs to be cleaned up. If your bone is small enough and thin enough that you feel safe cleaving it, I would suggest doing so. If the bone is a quarter inch thick or greater, I find that the saw is a better practice to keep a straight line and an even cut. Unfortunately, that means you have to deal with the bone dust and cleaning them afterward.

A quick note about dusting/keying your meat after sawing- are you familiar with the natural grain of each of your meats? There's only one way to properly clean each muscle as dictated by the fibers of the muscle. When you're working it the right way, it will clean faster and the steak will have a much more pleasant appearance in the case. Each muscle and steak is different though, so it will take some time getting used to.

>>8025037
Starting with lamb is a rarity- awesome stuff. Chicken is definitely where I got my start. Breaking down chickens, boning out breasts, splitting whole breasts, removing keel bones, etc. Then I went to the grinder, then pork, then beef, and only later on did I even get to consider working with Veal and Lamb.

"Solution" is a stupid term anyway that allows an excessively large amount of fluids to be present... I guess it's easier for legal reasons- but it also aggravates me to see it listed on packaging; especially if it's a LARGE percentage of the weight.

>>8025396
The type of solution depends on where your chicken comes from and how the processing and packaging works at their plant. Often the solutions are water-based or partially au jus and water based. Sometimes they also have salt added. Did you ever notice that there is a pad under most pieces of chicken you've ever purchased from packaging? That piece of material is also called a diaper in the profession, and its modern job is essentially to soak up all of that extra weight that is being added to the packing (additionally, it helps keep any fluids from the package from slopping out into the main floor; which was the industry's traditional rationale behind using them).

Therefore, most times when you're cooking your products, you don't even need to worry about it cooking out or any other way of removing it from your chicken, as the fluid has already been absorbed by the padding underneath your product.

120 chicken legs and/or thighs is typically not considered bulk, as bulk pricing is often indicated by "case pricing". This is also where major price breaks tend to happen. The less processing or work the store needs to do to sell you something, the happier they are and the easier they are to work with. Typically a bulk case of chicken at a grocery store or supermarket is approximately 40 pounds of product (fryers and some other pieces may weigh more, but that's not pertinent to your question).

I'm not sure of which region you're in, but I would reckon if you were willing to get 40 pounds worth of legs or thighs, you'd probably be able to get them for around $1.00/lb. I'd call around to a few places and see what kind of deal you can get- I know chicken is pretty cheap right now in my locale, but I cannot guarantee that everywhere.

(cont. in next post)

>>8025700
>>8025396
The reason leg quarters are less expensive is because there is a segment of the back on it that the whole legs do not have; nor is found on the legs or thighs individually. Leg quarters would also be cheaper at the butcher, but most of the butcher shops I know deal largely with pork and beef since chicken is "the meat with the most problems". Just as it takes a lot of pieces to get the weight you need, it too takes a lot of time to cut those pieces for the showcase. For this reason, some of our local butchers have raised their chicken prices so that they do not need to order as much to fill the customer need. However, at the same time they are getting even more money per pound to sell meat that they were already intending on stocking- so they're winning out pretty well. My honest opinion is that a grocery store with a somewhat decent meat department (service counter; not just self-serve) would probably be able to get what you need at a pretty fair rate even compared to a local butcher. However, if you have a local butcher works on a farm or works with local farms, chances are that would be your best bet. You tell him when you want it, he gets it all together for you that morning... doesn't get any more fresh than that.

>>8025627
Indeed. Remember though- "the customer is never wrong" (as said by some picky customer and for some reason it stuck to the industry like flies to shit).

>>8025646
I've never heard of that being called "neutral marinade" before. I'll have to keep that under my hat. Thanks for adding to my terminology anon. It's definitely dog crap though that the final weight is dictated by the amount of fluids in the pad underneath everyone's chicken, but if it's prepackaged there's nothing anyone can do about it. That's why it's so cool to find local shops, stores, or butchers that have pieces on ice ready to go without any additional packaging. Sometimes they even wrap them in parchment instead of bagging them for an old feel.

>>8020328
Is it true that Americans cut the skin off of their pork joints?

>>8025853
Most of our pork cuts are indeed without the skin. Some local charcuterie and butcher shops leave a layer of skin, but most stores that sell to the general public remove skin from all but a few select cuts. Sometimes picnic shoulders still have skin on them though. Pork belly is often sold with some skin on as well. Aside from that, however, it does seem that most of the cuts (at least locally) are sold without skin.

how long can i store porterhouse in the fridge for (<4°C) before i have to cook it?

will i die after the fourth day?

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>>8026011
disregard that. i found out for myself.

>>8026011
Our coolers are set to approximately 1ºC to prolong the life of the meat that we sell. The closer you can keep your refrigerator to that level, the better. However, that being said, if you're keeping it at around 39ºF (4ºC) or less, the general agreement in the culinary world is that larger steaks/roasts (often thicker too) will keep for approximately 3 to 5 days. I almost always recommend that you cook your meat by the end of the third day just as a precaution. You can never know how long that meat has been sitting on the shelf unless you saw the meat cut specifically for you.

The fourth day is a possibility, but I find it to be a little sketchy. Make sure you examine the quality of the meat, check for odors, and make sure that it stays as far from the front of the refrigerator as possible during its refrigeration. The items closer to the front will be exposed to warmer air every time the door opens, so the likelihood of spoiling/aging prematurely increases the closer it is to the front of the fridge (or the further it is away from your cooling unit of the fridge).

Eating meat after the fourth day, in my professional opinion, is taking a risk. You should be sure to cook the meat fully by that time. As unfortunate as it is to cook a steak well done, it's a lot better than getting food poisoning or other sicknesses from trusting a steak that got too old.

>>8026034
Thanx for the response.
>approximately 1ºC
>The closer you can keep your refrigerator to that level, the better.
If kept at that temp, how many extra days are added to the 3-5 default? I mean, like just a few or something more radical like a week or so?

I have a compartment at the top of my fridge where, if I put frozen meat in ther it won't defrost for days so I'm guessing that's about 1°Cish.

>>8026044
>If kept at that temp, how many extra days are added to the 3-5 default? I mean, like just a few or something more radical like a week or so?

I'm not the butcher, but from my studies of this topic the difference in time is HUGE. 3 degrees C is the magic number. Below that temperature the bacteria which cause spoilage pretty much shut down. They grow incredibly slowly.

Modernist cuisine has a great section on this towards the end of the first volume. They compared the bacterial content on raw chicken at different fridge temps. Above 3 C the chicken reached a certain threshold of bacteria within 4 days. Below 3 C it took THIRTY days.

Keep in mind that there are so many variables here that it's impossible to state any sort of hard-and-fast rule. Instead, learn to look for the signs of bad meat. Look at it. Smell it. Touch it and see if it's slimy. You will know instantly if the meat has gone bad--there is no mistaking the smell of spoiled meat.

How did you get the job?

>>8026052
>Above 3 C the chicken reached a certain threshold of bacteria within 4 days. Below 3 C it took THIRTY days.
Wow, that's quite a difference, and handy to know. Thanx!

Yeah, I always smell my meat before cooking it but I've noticed it goes brown in time and that's when I get worried. It still smells ok but I intentially cook it to well done status for peace of mind.
Basically I try to avoid freezing meat so I'll buy four steaks and put them in the super-cold compartment and eat one each day, taking it out of there on onto the bottom shelf on that morning.

Haven't died yet so something must be working.

>>8026044
>>8026052

What this anon said is very true. The closer you get to the freezing line, the longer meat has the POTENTIAL to last. However, due to my training from older butchers, we still say that 5 days is the absolute maximum amount of time we trust the meat for. While not all meats will last 4 or 5 days in a regular refrigerator that is set at higher temperatures (4ºC isn't terrible), ALMOST all meats will last 5 days at 1ºC if the environment is conducive and the temperature remains constant for your meats.

Think about it this way- it's not adding extra time to your product life; it's almost guaranteeing that it WILL survive for that given shelf life.

Definitely think about looking for the signs of bad meat, as suggested by >>8026052. It's important to understand what causes degradation/spoiling of meat for more reasons than one, so it's always something that's useful to learn more about. If not only for yourself, for your guests and visitors when you serve them.

The other benefit to our refrigerators is that our fan systems also pull out additional moisture from our areas- so there is a much lesser chance of additional bacterial growth. There's reason some of those refrigerators are so damn expensive- but it's to make sure that our customers don't get sick from negligence.

>>8026060
I started out at a grocery store under some old cutters. They thought I was a punk at first, and didn't trust me. Over the time I was there I gained their trust and they began to like me. I learned a lot of old school techniques from them until I was able to do the cuts in the store. From there, I learned the anatomy of the animal and began to process game for friends and family. Once you know how to process one legged animal, you know how to process most of them. Chickens were one of the first things I learned though, so it was easy to transfer that to game birds and poultry as well.

I now work at a better location since the old butchers left other location.

>>8026067

Turning brown is meaningless. Meat contains chemicals which interact with oxygen in the air. That's what determines the color--how much air the meat is in contact with. You can take a piece of brown meat, put it outside the fridge (unwrapped, of course) and it will burn red again. This is called "blooming" in the industry. Red meat is only "red" after exposure to oxygen in the air.

>>8026077
>>8026060

I should have said "Chickens were one of the first things I learned though, so it was easier to transfer that knowledge to game birds and turkeys as well."

Sorry for the typo.

I would have probably stayed at that location if the older butchers were all still there- but the store didn't treat them well and they left to either retire or go to a different company. I was never given a raise to be a cutter, so I was just demanded to do the cuts for a lower wage. I got tired of my mistreatment, and took my knives elsewhere. Aside from that, it was a great job and I learned a lot. The store was also a great place to work- I was just miffed about the payment issue and the extra responsibilities I had to take on that really weren't my duty under my pay scale or work classifications.

>>8026082
Ah, so it's the wrapping in a plastic bag that makes it go brown? I might take one out of the bag next time, to get to room temp, and see what happens.

I thought the exposure to oxygen would make it go bad.

>>8026077
Thanx for responding. Haven't read (slow reader) it yet but thanx in advance.

>>8026077
read it now. Many thanx! I learned about moisture management.

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"What do you call a butcher who has all of his fingers?"

"Apprentice."

>>8026034
>>8026052
>>8026077
>>8026082
I just want to say thank you so very much for the detailed and informative responses. You guys have helped me a lot and I'm very grateful for the education.

>>8020328
Who buys london broils anyway? They're tedious to cook and not that great, and are often more expensive or the same price as superior cuts.

>>8026082

This is right more or less, but once the meat has bloomed a few times (it will have already done it once by the time it gets packaged), it enters a state where oxidation takes hold. Once the exterior meat has fully oxidized, it will not return to a red color no matter how much oxygen it is exposed to. However, cutting even a 1/16 of an inch off the top of the steak would allow the lower level to bloom again... meat theory man- crazy shit.

>>8026100
Putting meat in tray packs actually traps oxygen in with the meat for a certain duration- so it helps keep the bloom active until the exterior of the meat oxidizes. Excessive exposure to oxygen will turn it brown and you would need to shave off the exterior of the meat (much like aged beef) in order to see the red color appear again.

>>8026110
Did you hear about the butcher who sat on his grinder?

--> He got a little behind in his work.

>>8026146
Typically the people who buy London broils/top round steaks in my area are using them for other purposes than just steaks/roasts (such as making beef jerky or beef cubes for kabobs). Either that, or they intend to marinade them for a day or two before throwing it on the grill low and slow.

London broils are priced accordingly in my area, and are cheaper than sirloins and other, more tender, steaks and roasts.

Market demands are weird some places though...

Long time lurker, first time poster. (You and Fuck Flour are the only namefags that actually provide legit quality to the board. Thanks for posting.)

Why hasn't the meat industry standardized the names of shit? Like a chuck roast is also known as a chuck eye roast, chuck pot roast, etc. They don't think this won't be confusing to the consumer?

>>8026202

Glad to hear you're enjoying the thread. I know I don't make many, but I try to answer as many questions as possible when I do.

To be perfectly honest with you, I ask myself the same question almost every day I go into work. I can shed a little light onto the subject for you though.

One issue is regional sales. It's the same reason you can ask for a soda some places and they have it listed as pop. Or the same reason you can't ask for bull testicles in a store most places- you have to ask for mountain oysters or Rocky Mountain oysters. Beats the hell out of me why we can't just say what it is and call it a day...

The big ones for me when I first started my newer job were that we used the same naming methodology for pork cuts that we did for beef. Pork new york strips, pork top loin chops... things like that.

In addition to regional sales, naming gets changed because certain parts of the muscles are removed for one cut, so the cut of a same name looks different. Baseball sirloins are never sold in my area, nor are Denver steaks, and even rarely (unfortunately) tri-tip steaks. We use the muscles differently, so the name of the cut is different as well.

We don't sell just regular sirloins at work, instead we have to call them full-cut, fillet, strip, and other names... It's confusing, but it gives an EXACT name to the muscles you're getting for dinner.

The problem that you're probably thinking of is when you go into a store for that sirloin steak and it says "top sirloin butt" or "full cut boneless sirloin" or "Steakhouse sirloin"- while the cut is either completely the same, or it is only slightly varied. I really don't get it either man.

The USDA does have names for everything, but due to old school cutting and "new" cuts being developed over the years, some of those steaks, roasts, and even sub primals can have completely different naming across the board.

Unfortunately, I feel it would just be too hard to get the same labeling across the US.

this thread is extremely interesting

wish i knew how to condense the whole thread in to one image once it 404s

>>8026351
It makes me happy to know that people actually appreciate the thread. I know butchery is certainly not for everyone, and that many people find the process appalling- so it's nice to see people that are interested in the subject.

I have no idea how to condense it all, but you could always save as a web archive to your computer. I have some of my old threads saved that way just in case. I haven't posted here in a long time- but maybe I should start making a thread every other week or something.

I won't bother everyone if they're uninterested though- it's not my goal to take up space on the board if it's not a popular or important topic for at least a moderate portion of the user basis.

>>8026483
nah dude, this kind of stuff is chill.

I have called every butcher shop in my area and fucking cannot get anyone to sell me chicken skin.
what the fuck is up with that.
Do you lucky bastards just take it all home?

>>8026880
That's actually pretty weird- especially if they're traditional butcher shops. Some of the modern retailers (Wal-Mart and the like) have chicken products, but they do not have chicken skin available because their meats come in pre-packed. When I was boning and skinning chickens at my first job, no one wanted the skins and there would probably be 20-30 pounds of it taken off of the whole fryers before the end of the day that was just sitting in a bucket ready to be thrown in the composter at the end of the day. We would have gladly sold that stuff.

Believe it or not, I don't eat any skin myself. I know it's rich, crunchy when cooked right, and flavorful to boot- something about it just gets me though, and I'm unable to eat it. My palate definitely has some texture and sensitivity issues- my loss though..

What kinds of shops have you been looking for your chicken skins at? Maybe I can help you figure something out to get you some chicken skins.

>>8027035
I live in SoCal, so there arent many local butchers. I yelp/googled 5-6 local butcher shops and called them to ask, and have asked a couple of meat sellers at my local farmers markets as well.
They all either said no or treated me like i was asking for something theyve never even heard of.

Im primarily looking to collect schmaltz from it, and was looking to pick up at least 5 pounds.

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>>8027077
Where about in SoCal?
I may be able to help.

$20+/lb for American """Kobe""" flatiron steak. Reasonable or fucking insane?

>>8027094
I live in orange/ work in irvine
so really anywhere in orange county

>>8027131
Hey what's up mission viejo right here. Let's roast a roast. Also checkem

>>8027131
Sorry Dude, I'm a desert-rat much further down South.

>>8027077
You had me at schmaltz. Yiddish and PA German words always catch my attention.

SoCal should have a whole bunch of opportunities for items like chicken skin because you have a bunch of foodies and quite a few good restaurants over there.

Have you tried checking at the bodegas and hispanic markets? I've been told they often have more chicken than beef or pork available.

>>8027116
I'd have to see the marbling. Not all wagyu cattle are created equal... I'd assume that it's "Kobe Style beef"; a typical American title for a general wagyu cattle (often a half breed). I know our mid-tier new york strips sold for more than $40/lb... but I'm not sure what your flat iron should bring. Do you have a picture of it?

>>8027159
It was a little while ago, and haven't seen it since then, so I assume it was a special thing they brought in. I like really like flat iron, but the stuff there is pretty overpriced and didn't know if that was fair or ludicrously overpriced.

Anyone know any good butchers between West Covina and Claremont, CA?

>>8027166
Theoretically (if it's a decent grade) $20/lb isn't a terrible price to pay for a wagyu flat iron.

However, in general the price of the flat iron and flank steak keep rising due to continued use for commercial chefs. They were cheap as dirt about 10-15 years back. Not anymore though... They're flavorful and are pretty tender though- so I guess it was only a matter of time before the prices came up.

>>8027168
My knowledge is pretty much Mid-Atlantic region based. Sorry anon- I won't be able to help you with that.

i work in a meat department and we can't be the only place that uses the same grinds for ground chuck and round, right?

>>8027141
ayyy

>>8027146
ah well, thanks anyways

>>8027159
you'd think so.
Ill check out the mexican markets, i hadn't thought of that. thank you.

>>8027175
What cut should I jump to next when flat iron gets to be as expensive as the tender cuts?

>>8027190

We actually grind out our meats specifically based on the indication of the label. Ground chuck literally means ground chuck. Ground round means round, and ground sirloin is made from top sirloin butts (trimmed down) and sirloin tips mixed together. We also rarely use trim for customer grinds- the grinder has his own boxes of meat to pull from for grinding fresh.

It's pretty crazy though. I don't know anywhere else that actually does it that way nearby.

>>8027193
Damn man, that's a hard sell. Flat irons and flanks seem to be rising in price, but almost all the good steaks are getting close to $10/lb... It's going to be hard to not just take a hit sometime in the near future when you want to get steaks.

Someone earlier in the thread said to get the chuck delmonicos (or chuck eye steaks) because in his area they aren't super expensive. Most places I know they're climbing up toward $7/8 per pound... which is high for a chuck cut (aside from flat iron, of course). The other option is to get boneless short ribs if they're still cheap near you. They cook up real good. Marbling is pretty good too.

My go-to steak (if they're on sale) is always the top sirloin/sirloin steak. They're good for their cost, and guests usually don't complain with that level of tenderness. I still see them for for around $6/lb when they go on sale (or similar pricing once it's call calculated out during the bogo sales). If they have the coulotte steak (sirloin cap steak) on sale for similar pricing, that's probably the one I'd be getting. Marbling is clutch, flavor is wonderful (especially for sirloin), it can be used for stir-fry, tips, or as steaks. Very versatile cut.

Meats, unfortunately, don't seem to be dropping in price any time soon. I haven't seen pricing spikes in the book yet, but I wouldn't doubt with the quality of feed changing we might see higher prices in 2017...

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When an ox is chopped up, does it look like this?

>>8027245
Holy shit, that is hot.

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>>8027245
I haven't seen one look like that.

This is what the middle section of a deer looks like though (unfortunately the head is in a black bag and the legs were kept whole and already made it to the freezer)

>>8027245
I would like to marry this woman

>>8027216
>don't use the trim for grinding

What DO ya use them for?

>>8027408
Our butchers are notoriously clean when cutting. The fat bin is a sea of white and not much trim makes it into the trim bin. The trim that we do have goes into our store-made meatloaf, meatballs, and to the kitchen that prepares food for customers. It's all one day old or from that day; so it's safe. But we do our best to make sure none of that trim ends up in our percent graded ground beef or our burgers (especially the burgers; which age faster anyway).

>>8020328
Hi butcher, I'm trying to get into grilling more. How do I make a perfect medium-rare steak?

>>8027446
That would depend on 1) the thickness of your cut, 2) what kind of grill you have, 3) what type of energy source your grill uses, and 4) what kind of meat you're using (amongst other factors of course).

In general, you want your steaks to be close to room temp before you throw them on the grill. You'll also want to make sure you remove your meat from the grill before it's the doneness you're looking for and let it rest for 5-10 minutes before consuming. During that resting time, your steak will continue to cook as it releases heat.

What's a good cut for cast-iron cooking (combo stove/oven)?

>>8020443
can't you just like grind up the tail bits and sell them as salmon burgers?

>>8027579
I haven't done much cast iron searing on the stove and then placing it into the oven with cast iron. Unfortunately I'm more of a griller and pan frying guy.

However, I was always told that you could sear a middle of the short-loin porterhouse or t-bone with excellent results doing so. The other steaks that would make sense to be would be a bone-in ribeye or a bone in new york strip.

Then again, if I'm using a pan I'd probably be drowning (basting) my steak(s) in their own juice and whatever seasonings and butter is left in the pan through the whole cooking process, but maybe that's just me.

Sorry if I didn't answer your question properly or in the way you wanted it. I'm afraid I haven't tried all of the culinary techniques out yet, so I may fall a little short for you. While I'm working on getting to them, I'm slow at getting to everything.

Why the fuck is bacon more expensive then a rib eyes now

>>8027927
Bacon is more OP (overpriced and over powered) than ever. Everyone is using it excessively in so many dishes that the industry has decided to start marking up pork bellies/pork sides which is driving up the cost of bacon exponentially.

I think most bacon close to where I live is $6.99/lb - no small price to pay for a pound's worth of bacon... Then again, most ribeyes around here are more like $9.99/lb for select when they're not on sale, and $15.99/lb for choice when they're not on sale.

I know the feeling though. Bacon is getting outrageously expensive. You can thank all of those stupid videos on youtube (like the bacon cheddar weave) and the culture we've developed that says that EVERYTHING is better with bacon... The invisible hand dictates that where there is high demand, the price will continue to rise- so until we decide that we don't want to be completely consumed with cooking with bacon, the price will stay the same or continue to rise.

There's not much butchers or department stores can do about it unless we want to invest heavily to get our own smokers and process our own bacon (not an easy task to do right and it also involves HUGE risk for failure and loss of investment capitol).

What are the most overrated and underrated cuts of meat?

how should I go about making my own jerky?

i remember making it once as a child with my father. I'm hazy on the details, but I believe we just took meat, make a little saran wrap blanket, and then belted them between some books and tossed it in the fridge for a day

or i could be making that up, regardless what do you recommend

pork is really cheap here, i remember getting london boil for ~$1.5/lb a week ago, chicken similarly cheap. possible to make pork/chicken jerky or will i die alone and diseased

>>8027956

Hell i saw a butcher friend made some homemade bacon. And lets not forgot the true ramenfags and their Cha Shu also adding to the price hike.

That said he recommended me a butcher store with decent deli and tenderloin for 12 bucks. For reference Pepper lunch charges you 30 dollars for the same thing

Has the price of ox tails gone up? I swear hipsters are ruining all the cheap cuts.

>>8027982
The most overrated cut? I'm going to get hit for this, but the fillet mignon is the most overhyped cut from the animal. Is the the most tender? Yes. Does it take exceptionally well to seasoning? Yes. Is it the most flavorful? Not at all. In fact, the Delmonico on almost every occasion wins hand down in terms of flavor (thanks to its fatty makeup).

There are a few cuts that I consider underrated. The chuck delmonico/chuck eye steak, the short ribs, and of course, the sirloin steak. Everyone writes these off as "alright" or "acceptable" cuts. The chuck del is pretty good, and often the price isn't terrible. The sirloin, however, is always the "eh, it's sirloin". That shit can be served so many different ways it's incredible. Stir-fry, tips, braised meat, grilled meat, pan fried meat... the list goes on.

>>8028061
First remember that if you make jerky, you're going to lose approximately 2/3 of your original weight by the time you have your finished product.

I would recommend you try one of two ways. The first, is leaving your oven on at a low temperature (I'm sure there's a temp on google somewhere) for hours on end while leaving the door slightly cracked. The second, and the more popular, method is to buy a dehydrator and to run a full cycle with it to get your finalized product.

The recipe for the jerky is the real secret though, and I'm not supposed to give out any of our old recipes; so you'll be on your own to find a quality jerky recipe. Often the meat strips you create for your jerky will rest in a marinade for at least one day, sometimes two. Make sure that you don't slice your meats too thin; and remember that the meat WILL SHRINK as it dehydrates.

I do not recommend mixing any meats while you're making jerky. Additionally, while pork jerky and chicken jerky have definitely been becoming more popular for jerky, I do not have any recipes that convince me to make chicken jerky

>>8028061
I know people shit on Alton Brown around here, but he had the right idea for jerky.
>get your meat
>get box fan, square furnace filters, and bungees
>place meat in filters
>bungee filters to fan so air is forced through
>leave somewhere to run

>>8028717

Hipsters are by definitions the ones that were eating ox tail when they were still cheap and hadn't become popular or mainstream. It's retarded to blame hipsters just because everyone else catches on 15 years later.

>>8029000
Alright

Strangest animal you've ever cut, processed, or eaten

For me it's probably mountain lion jerky that I helped make for hunting friends

>>8029188
>Hipsters are by definitions the ones that were eating ox tail when they were still cheap
No
Hipsters sold oxtail (in stews/tacos/etc) to other hipsters for high premium prices as "authentic" food and then the resulting trend increased the price all around

Hipsters don't even really cook for themselves, they go to new trendy places for food

Any suggestions for someone looking to learn how to butcher his own meat? How did you learn?

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>>8028717
The price of almost all meat-related products have been going up for a while. It's only sometimes that we really begin to notice the increase of the prices. I think the real problem is that some of the cheap cuts have now become a popular event because people are becoming more aware of the need to save their money. When this happens, the lower cost items come into demand; and when that happens, the price goes up.

>>8029478
Strangest animal I've ever eaten/processed... Hm. I can't say my list is terribly exciting.

I've eaten a lot of different meats, pheasant, dove, snapper soup, veal, lamb, calf, I think squirrel was on my plate once, quail, duck, rabbit, etc.

I guess I'd have to say the three legged doe I processed for a friend was a pretty interesting animal. (I'm not the one with the wood saw; the person who shot the deer wanted to feel "involved" and said, "what difference does it make what saw is used? We're just removing the leg". At any rate, a wood saw is not preferable for that sort of work. However, I digress. The meat was actually super tender in most of the animal because it only got around to eat, I guess. None of the muscles were really overworked at all.

My coworkers, however, have eaten some strange shit. Rocky mountain oysters, veal tongue, calf tripe, ostrich eggs, gazelle meat, I think one had zebra when he was on vacation... horse meat makes the list as well.

>>8029520
If you're looking to learn to cut your own meat, I would advise looking for a local shop you could shadow/apprentice/etc. for. Sometimes they don't pay you while you're learning from an old butcher- but the knowledge in itself is payment enough. I learned from old heads while I was working at a local store in their meat department. They didn't want me in back at first, then they started to like me and took me under their wings. They left, so I did too. Now I have a better job, but I only work with one *real* butcher. Everyone else is a meat cutter. I specialize in butchering game animals as of now, but I can work with steer/regular legged animals too if I needed to.

When you're working at a grocery store or a local purveyor of meat, it's likely you'll get boxed meat in that has the piece you want in it without having to pull it off of a beef. Need more porterhouses and t-bones? Get that short-loin. Need some more New York Strips? Get that boneless striploin (and so forth). It really saves a lot of time not having hanging beef or hogs in your department, but it loses a little of the magic of processing farm to table.

That being said, almost nowhere does hanging meat anymore- so you'll probably be learning to be a meat cutter rather than a butcher. The titles seem very similar, but to some old butchers, it's offensive if you call yourself a butcher when you only work from boxed meats. Basically, a butcher works from farm to table (slaughter, processing, takes sides and pulls what is needed off of the full anima); whereas a meat cutter is someone who works almost exclusively from boxed meats.

If you want to learn more about the muscles and the intricate details of a beef, I'd recommend Adam Danforth's book "Butchering Beef". It's a pretty comprehensive (and photographic) guide to a humane slaughter and butchering. You'd learn a lot from the book. Some of the cuts might not be what you're used to seeing, but the knowledge is certainly useful.

>>8026351
https://github.com/bibanon/BA-4chan-thread-archiver

>>8029486

>they go to new trendy places for food

Those are foodies, dumshit. Hipsters are rich white kids who venture into ethnic neighborhoods and eat actually authentic food on the cheap.

>>8029966

Weirdest I've had was Iceland shark. Second weirdest was kangaroo.

Do you know how to do mexican butcher cuts? Is it really that difficult to do them? Im surprised when american butchers cant cut the flank steak or even the chuck as thin as i want it.

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>>8031489

I can't say that I'm not familiar with them, but I've never been asked to cut them before- so my product might not look the same as you could get from your local carnicero or bodega, but I could replicate them if I needed to.

Some of the cuts from South America and Mexico are incredibly foreign as far as what American butchers have learned over decades. Some of the cuts I've seen are circular through multiple muscle clods, and therefore would be impossible to do in an American shop unless it's a traditional butcher shop with hanging beef.

Since most of the American butchers spend little to no time thinking about perfecting the craft of Mexican butchering, it doesn't surprise me that you've run into trouble trying to get the meats you've wanted them to produce for you. The concept of beef 1/16 of an inch (or less) thick isn't something that any butcher I know has ever prepared for. Our knives are sharp and our hands are swift and detailed- but it's almost impossible to produce something like that if you haven't spent time dedicating yourself to learning the angles of the blades while cutting and also taking the time to make charts (then practicing those cuts) so that you can either explain it to your co-workers or customers in addition to teaching your staff how to cut it.

How thick of meat are you actually looking for from your butchers though? A quarter inch definitely isn't too thin to do if you're got a sharp knife and a steady hand.

>>8032309
Thanks for the detailed answer. This is a video of how i would like my flank steak cut. https://youtu.be/L0YCZyRpFI8

The reason i dont really want to go to a carniceria is the scarcity in my area as well as the quality of the nearby carniceria our sub par (Ive only seen select). Mexicans seem to really seek out really non marbled beef.

How difficult would it be for an american butcher to try this type of cut if they are unfamiliar with the technique?

>>8033019

I watched the video linked. I can tell you that for a skilled butcher, it should not be a problem- but they would need to know the direction and the technique before they'd be willing to try it (butchers and meat cutters alike tend to value the flesh of their palm). With the extreme thinness of the meat, it would be relatively difficult for someone who is unfamiliar with the butterflying technique and creating long, demanding cuts to make it properly. That being said, if a butcher/cutter would interested in learning, they could probably get it right in a few tries (they'd probably want to be wearing a chainmail glove for it at least while learning though). Poke around and see if you can find an interested butcher anon- you mind find one (especially if you offer repeat sales).

I can agree with you fully when you mention that Mexicans (in reality, many latinos; not just Mexicans) seem to enjoy cuts that appear more red. Red means freshness, marbling takes away from the purity of red meat- therefore signaling a lower quality. Then again, I was told by one family that the level of "quality of beef" is not misunderstood, but the higher grade also costs more. Due to additional cost (and less that can actually be eaten) the meat appears less appealing to a family that eats beef 4-5 times a week rather than the typical American's 2-3 times per week. By the end of the year, the costs of eating select vs choice meats would astronomically different by the end of the fiscal year.

The other thing I noticed is that they were using either flap meat or a skirt steak in the video (I apologize, my attention was a little divided) instead of a flank steak. I know in traditional carne asada (literally "grilled beef") it can be any three of these cuts, and sometimes even other cuts are substituted. That's how they get the really long (albeit thin) cuts to look so large. That, and of course the butterflying technique...

>cook beef chuck shoulder steak or some shit like that and a sirloin both exactly the same in a cast iron pan, after thawing
>withing ~5 days of eachother in terms of age
>chuck steak was as fine as it could be, sirloin tasted gritty
the fuck?

>>8033415

That sounds like some shit to me. Does your store have a satisfaction guaranteed policy? Sirloins shouldn't get into such a terrible state merely from freezing. There wasn't any freezer burn, right?

Was it a sirloin steak or a sirloin tip steak? Sometimes stores get in lower quality sirloin tips than they should because of market demand for the cut (it's also used many places for grinding "ground sirloin").

Top butt sirloin (sirloin steak) shouldn't end up being gritty and tough unless they 1) cut it the wrong direction or 2) didn't trim it properly before cutting.

Where did you get your steaks from?

Either way, sucks anon. I hope your next steak is more pleasing to you. Our store offers huge incentives for customers to bring their products back if there were any problems with them so that we can better prepare our staff to make a better product.

>>8033449
>Top butt sirloin (sirloin steak) shouldn't end up being gritty and tough unless they 1) cut it the wrong direction or 2) didn't trim it properly before cutting.
This is what it said on the package. I got it from Winn-dixie, so i'm pretty sure it wasnt' even cut on site. I don't know if we have a butcher anywhere nearby, here in cancer ass Jacksonville florida.

>>8033484
My only guess at that point would be that either a new person was on the line at the production company, or that the life of the beef was not up to standard. The other possibility would be that the animal was sickly near death; which attributed to a less than stellar end product.
The butcher is out- leave your questions and I'll get back to them when I get home for the day.

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>>8033402
Thanks for the detailed answer. It is flap meat not skirt. I always get those two cuts confused. I have a friend who likes buying butcher knives. So far i know he has 4 forschner cimetars , 10",12" x2, and a 14 inch. A forschner boning knife. F. Dick trimming knife, a couple of steels. And, forchner salmon knife, 12" or 14" granton edge slicer. Is there any type and brand of knife or steel that every butcher or butcher enthusiast should have, his bday is coming up.

Ps. He already has several jap stones used to sharpen.

Thanks.

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I have 2 lbs of lamb eye of shortloin how do I make food from this nigger

>>8020328
You make pigs smoke

>>8027141
Fuck yeah dude im in mv too!

>>8026095

>I too have noticed an absence of pork bones in most stores. We carry them, but they're rare for most stores.

We get cases of Hatfield pork neck bones from our warehouse. The Asians come in and say: "PO(r)K? PO(r)K?" and make chopping motions at their necks. LOL

>I would have probably stayed at that location if the older butchers were all still there- but the store didn't treat them well and they left to either retire or go to a different company. I was never given a raise to be a cutter, so I was just demanded to do the cuts for a lower wage. I got tired of my mistreatment, and took my knives elsewhere. Aside from that, it was a great job and I learned a lot. The store was also a great place to work- I was just miffed about the payment issue and the extra responsibilities I had to take on that really weren't my duty under my pay scale or work classifications.

This story sounds familiar. Did your former employer get bought out by a larger chain of grocery stores that no longer cuts meat? If so, I might work for that company.

I haven't seen you around in a while but I always enjoy your threads. Cheers, Dude!

>>8033702

It sounds like he has pretty much everything he could possibly need. I love Forschner knives because that is what I use for work and it's what I'm familiar with. An 8" breaking knife would be a nice gift. It's a 'tweener' knife but it's versatile and easy to maintain. I have one and get compliments from others. "That's a good knife to have." "I really like your knife, man." Other than that, buy him a couple more 6" boning knives. Those things get used and abused. Maybe an 8" chef's knife? I have one at home and use it for almost everything I need to do in the kitchen. I also have a 10" chef's knife but I rarely use it. Its most useful purpose is when the doorbell rings because of solicitors and I show up with a knife in my hand. "Sorry, I'm busy making dinner." LOL

I'll be in and out tonight. That being said, the butcher is in.

>>8033702
I am in agreement with >>8034654. Your friend has the knives they'd need for a regular basis. If a chef knife isn't on their list, maybe you could get them one of those.

>>8033737
I'm not entirely sure that I'm familiar with the piece you're talking about. A shortloin and an eye are two different pieces. Perhaps you call them something different where you're rom than I call them here? Is there a picture of it you can send me? I can try to help you out if I can align your cut to what I know it by.

>>8034249
I've never smoked a full pig before- but it'd be fun!

>>8034477
I worked for a family run business when I was younger. They weren't bought out, they just didn't want to give raises. It seemed like they were always in a "pay freeze".

What chain do you work for?

Thanks for stopping into the thread- it's always nice to see people coming back either to read, to contribute, or to ask questions. Cheers right back at you.

>>8034654
Hah. I'll have to remember to do that sometime with my 14" cimeter when I've got a hanging animal at the house and someone rings the bell...

>>8035407
Anon with the lamb cut here. I have done some research and I think the cut is called tenderloin, it's in a somehwat flattened cylindrical form, cut in half if that matters.

>>8032309
is the suadero part not normally eaten in america or is it just called something else? I get it on my tacos and it's great.

also is $8.99/lb normal for flank steak? the market sells whole chickens for $2 and chuck roll for $6, which I think are pretty good prices, but that much for flank steak seems expensive.

What meat and cut would you recommend for a really green and novice chef to prepare? Is there even a difference in difficulty?

Sorry for the late responses:

>>8036693
If it's a tenderloin, then it's super tender whether you roast whole, or chop it into thick or thin steaks for pan frying or for the grill. The tenderloin would be the same as a fillet mignon; just from a lamb rather than a steer.

>>8036713
Where the suadero comes from is the naval area of the steer. I haven't cut it myself, nor have I seen it at the local market. Sorry I don't have more information for you.

$8.99/lb is pretty normal for flank steak. Its price has been rising due to additional interest by foodies and chefs.

>>8036756
Depending on what meat costs, anything would be a good choice so long as the price is low. Sirloins are great steaks that are inexpensive when on sale; but if they're not on sale, you could always start learning with round steaks or something similar.

There is definitely a difference in cooking time between fattier meats and leaner meats; but I don't know that I call one more difficult than the other. One merely takes less time.

Then again, I'm not a professional chef- but my guests also don't show distress or distain while eating my food.

>>8036713
>>8038567

Ive done lots of research on this type of meat. Because suadero is one of my favorite tacos. The cut is definately from the navel and have seen it names as rose meat, as well as roast meat. The name is derived from the loght pink color of the meat.

Some recipes call for brisket flat to be used but I would advise against it.

>>8035407

>What chain do you work for?

I work for Giant/Martin's. They have stores in Pennsylvania, Maryland and Virginia. They are under the Ahold USA umbrella with Giant of Landover(MD), Stop & Shop and now, Food Lion.

The Butcher I have a crush on you and want you to chop my meat ;**

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me, again >>8038615

>>8036693

Lambs are tiny. It's probably the loin portion of a lamb saddle/shortloin off the bone. You can roast it slow with whatever seasonings or juicy juices you like or cut it into medallions and do the same in a pan. It shouldn't take long at all. 30 minutes or so.

A while back, going into a holiday, we were distro'd whole lamb loins/saddles and they were at a great sale price. They were meant to be split and cut into lamb loin chops but I bought a whole piece as an experiment. Cooked it at 300 degrees for about two hours, yanked it and let it rest. Took the meat off the bone, sliced it and it was perfectly pink medium.

(pic related is before i put it in the oven)

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>>8020328
A chef I know and don't particularly care for recently argued with a paying customer, who was a butcher himself actually, about "boneless chuck short ribs" that said chef was serving. The customer felt cheated because he felt that the chef shouldn't have been advertising the cuts as short ribs. In my own restaurant I serve bone in short ribs like attached picture. Do you as a butcher feel the same as this disgruntled customer or would you agree with the chef?

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>>8038582
Noted (on both accounts). Thanks anon.

>>8038615
I definitely know those names. I hope you're holding up strong on the front lines.

>>8038713
I am (and my associates are) unused to flattery from our line of business unless it's from someone who wants a discount. There have been stories of women flashing some skin at other stores nearby just for a chance of such a deal.

At the same time- thanks.

>>8038892
That looks wonderful. They're definitely not near as big as cattle, and they cook quick. But it's a delicious treat on occasion...

Do you have the after picture so we can see the chops?

>>8038914
You're asking a pretty legitimate question here. There's two ways to answer. One, the butcher is completely correct (picture related)- traditional short ribs come from muscles that contact the plate area directly. There are, however, other ares that are modernly accepted as being "short ribs". The chuck *is* one of these areas. Boneless chuck short ribs would be considered a small portion that comes off of the chuck roll... but some places do not accept this as a reality. There's also flanken short ribs, regular short ribs, and a whole bunch of other kinds of "short ribs" by modern definition...

If I was forced to pick a side, I would have to stand by my butcher brethren; as he is probably using the term literally (as it would have been done for many years) and is unimpressed with the difference in texture, quality, and flavor that he experienced from the meat being cut from a different area.

I can see why the chef stood his ground, but it is important to explain what is really going on with the meat in restaurants; otherwise someone will always be upset.

The ribs you've posted are lovely. Would eat.

>>8039453
As a chef experienced in pretty much old school traditions, I would side with you and your butcher brethren. Let's face it, the bone in true short ribs like the picture I posted most certainly be better than the chuck "short ribs".
Let's face it, closer to the bone sweeter the meat. I've done the boneless chuck short ribs, and while tender and delicious, just not the same. Texture is different etc.
We frequently use steaks from that area, flat iron, teres major etc.
If we do short ribs we always get them cut to spec just like the three bone in picture I attached. Thanks for responding

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>>8039453
No problem. I believe this is how the meat looks.

>>8036756
soup and stew is good for beginners because it's almost impossible to overcook the meat.

What cut is best for chili?

>>8039510

I've seen it in a few of the local bodegas before, but it's not something I've ever removed myself (or seen removed, for that matter) from the animal to be used in such a manner. Neat stuff.

>>8036756
My original thought went to 'cuts'; i.e. steaks. However, >>8039769 makes an exceptionally good point. Soups and stews also don't break the bank to make. In fact, you could probably learn more about seasoning/flavor pairings while still learning about making a quality stock at the same time. That would probably be a great idea for a young cook.

>>8039989
I might sound like a pleb for saying this, but I've never made chili with any type of cut; only with different varieties of ground beef.

Despite this, however, I believe that the following advice goes across the board. Using a meat with more fat it in allows for more flavor in the chili. Therefore, I typically use chuck meat if I'm going to make a chili.

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>Do you have the after picture so we can see the chops?

Pic related

>I hope you're holding up strong on the front lines.

It sucks that we don't cut meat anymore but we do what we can to keep people happy. We can order whole primals to cut for the service case and special orders. I understand the corporate philosophy of cutting labor and costs in order to maintain a competitive price point in the meat department and throughout the store. Perception of quality took a downturn, obviously, but it is what it is.

It's a job. I've worked night crew, stocking shelves. I've worked frozen foods. I worked the hell out of the dairy department for ten years before I was suggested an opportunity in the meat department. The introduction was a bit volatile. I didn't have a lot of guidance, so I had to figure it out as I went along. I guess that's typical. I was naïve to think it was a more learning and nurturing environment. LOL

>>8041140
took it out too early it seems

still raw inside

>>8024213
Personally when I make chilli out of chuck I'll slow cook the whole piece of chuck in the broth and then shred it after. I find that this leads to the connective tissue all but disappearing.

>>8041157
You better be trolling m80.

>I might sound like a pleb for saying this, but I've never made chili with any type of cut; only with different varieties of ground beef.

Really? You've never made chili with sirloin? That's what I used to do with a combination of ground beef. Also, hind shanks/shins cook up real good in the crock pot.

I've been using boneless lamb for chili because it's cheaper than beef when on sale and it's absolutely delicious. I haven't made chili in a while because, you know, it's summer. And I'm lazy. But I have enough lamb in the freezer for four batches of chili.

>>8041140

Most places don't cut around here anymore either- we're the exception to the rule (for the most part). It's strange that we've had opposite experiences. You thought it would be a friendly environment while I expected to be treated like crap. I'm actually being taken care of pretty well right now; so I can't complain.

When you said your introduction was volatile, it reminded me of one of my first experiences in my first department. I was 16 and had just been taught about dialing out for emergencies. One of my coworkers was working with beef liver (which he hid during this event) and bloodied his hands up really bad with fresh red blood. He had blood in his gloves too, which made it worse; but I digress. All I knew was that there was a loud bang (knife on table) and a scream. I ran back to see what had happened and the guy is bloodied like a fresh slaughter and saying "oh my god- The Butcher- do something!" while he clenches one of his fingers in his palm. I ran to dial for medical aid when I hear "Butcher! Wait! Don't call in- he's really fine!". Buch of jackasses...

>>8041181
I could see doing that. I've done shredded beef before, but I've never thought of chili in the same manner.

>>8041191
When I was young our family didn't have much money. Even having meat on the table was a blessing. I can't do premium steak meat for chili; but that's due to my childhood. I've done ground sirloin before though.

If lamb was ever cheaper than beef here, I'd do the same. But it never is.

>>8042466

>It's strange that we've had opposite experiences. You thought it would be a friendly environment while I expected to be treated like crap.

I was told that Boss is one of the best around and I could learn a lot from him. Little that I knew, he could also be a complete asshole. The other meat cutters didn't do much to help me out or show me things. And I got bitched at for taking too long to do grinds and make patties, mainly because I took too long cleaning the parts properly instead of the half-assed shit that others would do. Even the meat wrappers, fucking bitches, were conspiring against me and hoping to watch me fail.

Yeah, it wasn't an easy road.

>>8043301
I hear you Scooter. The struggle is always real for people in meat departments. Most times it seems the old heads are worried about getting their work done (as they should), but they fail to place any time into their day to help culture the new guy.

Cleaning is such an important task. I'm sure when the inspector was thought to be coming you were always the late guy. It was like that at my first job in a meat department. I too did a thorough job, not a half assed one. Everyone else hated it.

I knew I couldn't be the only one that has had trouble with their wrappers. Where I'm at now they're not too bad- they work with the team pretty well. Other places I've been they've been complete nightmares to deal with. They have complained about the stupidest crap, "Butcher, you can't put those there- I'm trying to clear it off."
--Look here wrapper; I've got 15 boxes of beef to cut before I get a 10 minute break. It doesn't matter what order your incoming highboy gets filled (aside from beef on top, pork in the middle, and chicken at the lower tiers due to health concerns), because you get a special cart to take out everything after the AUTOMATIC wrapper and pricer takes care of everything else for you. Just type in the number for the item, the sell by date (it's mostly filled automatically anyway), and fill the cases.

I understand that wrapping isn't always an easy job- and I appreciate what they do for us so that the butchers and meat cutters can keep moving quickly and efficiently. I just wish they would respect us a little more and go with the flow when we're trying to rip through cases, special orders, and everything else we need to do to keep the day going. Their job is directly related to ours. While we could wrap, it's much more efficient to get someone who doesn't know how to cut to do it. The job does not work in reverse though.

Maybe we just have isolated experiences.... Any other meat departments workers on /ck/ want to throw in their two cents?

what's the difference in strip-cut steaks.
NY, KC, whatever else i haven't heard of yet.

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>>8043511
My friend, these are the same steaks. They're both from the striploin side of the shortloin (the piece that gives you porterhouses/t-bone steaks; they also give fillet mignon/strips because those are the two groups of muscle that are separated by that segment of bone).

In some places they call new york strip steaks kansas city strips steaks. Another possible name for the same cut (depending on where you live; often outside of the US) they will also call this a sirloin steak... it's a bunch of crazy naming procedural junk.

From what I was told when I was younger, there were a lot of stock yards in Kansas City and there was a lot of beef processed there. However, rich and uppity people in New York (many dining at Delmonico's in lower Manhattan; where the name "delmonico" came from for the boneless ribeye steak. Fun fact- Delmonico's main building [there were about 10 total locations throughout Delmonico's existence] in lower Manhattan was 70,000 square feet!) did not want to think of their cuts as "lowly/ uncultured", so the steak was renamed to match their "class".

Another classification of the new york strip steak is actually the "sirloin cut" of the new york strip. It's basically the end that is less desirable in terms of appearance and amount of tendon/gristle that appears in it. The world of butchery and meat cutting is a complicated one...

>>8041184
The meat looks fine, but the fat looks under-done to me

Why do americans not eat lamb?

>>8046344
It's expensive here. Some shitty chops usually cost more than a decent cut of beef.

>>8046344
What >>8046385 said is pretty much the truth. We do eat lamb- but it's often for special occasions. I think Easter is when most of the people I know buy lamb.

To give you an idea of how commonly lamb is sold, I don't even remember how much a boneless leg of lamb costs in my store. I think it was around $13/lb the last time I sold it. Our lamb chops are at least $16 or 17/lb, and they only sell due to the upper class clientele that come in on the weekends. They think nothing of buying a 5 pound rib roast for their family for about $90. Most families, however, turn away from these expensive cuts in modern America unless they're loaded.

In comparison, you can get choice grade fillet mignon steaks (not center cut fillet though) for about $16/lb when it's on sale. Most customers would wonder why they should pay a dollar more per pound lamb chops when they can get the "king of beef" (as some call it locally) for similar money?

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>>8047443

Speaking of Fillet Mingnon. Why do they charge so much for it at a restaurant vs a hot food deli. This one only set me back 12 bux while restaurants charge nearly double

>>8020409
I legit like sirloin steak better than anything if it's cooked right.

>>8020435
Would love to know the books you'd recommend.

Ive wanted to be apart of this industry for a while but sadly most of the butcher shops in my area are really just prepacked display cases in a mega grocery store

>>8047885
Restaurants charge more money for a number of reasons. The first being that they have to pay someone to make your meals for you. Unlike the server/waiter/waitress that gets paid like crap, the cook actually gets paid a regular wage. If it takes them 1/2 an hour to prep your meal, it costs the restaurant about $4.00 on top of the original price of the meat. Additionally, they need to pay someone to wash the dishes at the end of the night, and even to a small extent, pay your server. This price has now risen to a total of about $8.00 for all workers involved to be doing their job.

So instead of the steak being $12.00, it is now $20.00. While this would be fine and dandy, they must now also include water, electricity, taxes, insurance policies for their employees, etc. to the bill. That is what gives the price the last few dollars of risen price. $20 now becomes $26-28 for the same steak you could make (assuming some culinary knowledge) for about $12.

Now the question hits: "but if they're upcharging for all of their services, where does the restaurant's cut come in?" 1) The servers all wait multiple tables. I've known servers who routinely take care of 10 tables every half hour at their local place. Pretty solid earnings based on its clientele... but I digress. 1) Multiple tables per hour, 2) The meat price they pay is MUCH lower than what a consumer pays at the counter. It's likely they pay wholesale pricing, meaning those fillet mignons cost them around $8-9 a piece for a 6 oz fillet. 8 oz fillets are probably about $10 a piece. So already, their profits are gushing. There's a lot more that goes into it to.

Just know that you're paying for the services rendered for your meal to be put together, but you're also paying for the company to make profits.

I can discuss it in more detail if you'd like.

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>>8047899
Heck yeah. Sirloin is a great cut. I made some myself last night. The picture sucks, but the steak didn't by the time everything was done cooking.

The secret was in the rub and in the basting liquid I made to keep the steak juicy. Old-timey stuff.

>>8048301
If you're looking for a pretty serious understanding of the breakdown of the cattle as well as individual cuts, I have found that "Butchering Beef" by Adam Danforth to quite a reliable book to own.

However, I am unsure of whether or not the book is as great as it is merely of its own volition or whether my previous knowledge of processing has given my as much insight as I've received from reading it.

It's a 342 page book with EXTENSIVE pictures and extremely detailed vocabulary. I know meat cutters that don't use half of the vernacular that the author of this book uses. ex. Customer: "I need some rib meat". Butcher: "Ah, yes- the intercostal muscles; great stuff. How much would you like?"

He also talks about the various tools that meat cutters (and butchers) could have access to and use on a somewhat regular basis. However, I have found that some of these tools are not common in grocery chains or even in some middle-level markets. However, the resource is still welcomed.

Are you interested solely in processing animals/breaking down individual cuts? Or are you also interested in charcuterie (smoking/curing of meats) and other aspects?

The truth of the matter, and it is unfortunate, is that butchers and meat cutters are being run out of business by prepackaged meats and by the rapid-production rate of the large processing plants that make those products. In reality, there are even some machines that do a pretty slick job of producing some of the cuts you see in the stores... it's a scary time for skilled labor right now. Real cutters will never be completely out of work, as there are some intricate things that need to be done by hand (at least, presently this is the case).

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>>8048828
I have thought of owning my own shop. I liked breaking down carcasses, ive done beef, lamb, and pork. I like making sausages with my home size counter top grinder.

I took a meat science class in community college and plan to change my major at the 4 year level to animal or meat science.

While i was in France for a while i learned a little about charcuterie and found that other than hams, bacons, and fairly popular sausages no one offers anything truly unique/special. I guess the reason why is no one knows any specific charcuterie recipes(other than salami )or is willing to pay for it or a combo of the 2.

>>8048793
>The meat price they pay is MUCH lower than what a consumer pays at the counter

I'm kind of curious about how this works exactly. I've often heard people state that restauratns get massive bulk discounts on ingredients. Yet, my (limited) experience seems to suggest otherwise. I often get involved with catering projects were we are purchasing meat, poultry, and produce to feed several hundred or even over a thousand people at a time. We call around for bulk pricing. We do get a discount, but it's not all that significant. How much does one have to buy before the real discounts start to kick in?

>>8020328

let's say I wanted to buy scraps like chicken skins in bulk, how hard is that to do for a brick and mortar grocery store chain butcher's department?

>>8049337
I'll have two more books for you when I go on break.

>>8049366
I'll also get back to go on break.

>>8049380
Most grocery stores don't debone/deskin themselves anymore- so that could be a difficult predicament...

Some stores still debone/deskin- is check there first for the highest chances of getting what you want.

>>8049380

I'm not OP, but I have gotten large amounts of chicken skins by the following methods:

1) I contacted a local butcher who breaks down chickens in house for selling the cuts individually and for their built-in deli. I just asked if they had any and they said their normally throw them out but would save them for me. Sometimes they gave them to me, sometimes they'd charge me a pittance (like, say, 50 cents a pound).

2) Contacted a nearly chicken slaughterhouse and asked for skins. The would sell them to me in big boxes. Sorry, I can't remember the price but it wasn't much.

I'd like to find a source for TURKEY skins. Those are big enough to make a really nice ballatine....

Why pay more for different cuts if it all tastes the same? Texture? Juicier?

>>8049848
It doesn't all taste the same. Different cuts have different taste.

They also have different fat contents (which is relevant for many dishes), as well as different textures.

>>8049875
Yeah it does.

>>8020328
What's the best way to cook sirloin without a bbq grill?

Sorry for the delay. Didn't get much of a dinner break at the shop. Late shift (and cleaning) is so tedious...

>>8049337
I always thought it'd be awesome to own my own shop too.

The books I have in mind for you are the following: Charcuterie: The Craft of Salting, Smoking, and Curing (Revised and Updated) by Michael Ruhlman and Sausage Making: The Definitive Guide with Recipes by Ryan Farr. While you have some knowledge in both of these fields, and some of this information will also be review for you, there are some recipes, terminology, and detailed information about each of the crafts.

They're not terribly expensive either- especially if you have Amazon Prime.

The problem with starting your own butcher shop is that it is much less cost effective to have hanging meat. If you mean just to have your own meat purveyor where you sell boxed meat like upscale markets, that'd be much more feasible as a business model. I can tell you that the books are pretty slim for those who process whole steer because they can only sell so many of each item before they have half a carcass left and nothing that anyone wants to buy left on it. It's horrifying to grind half a steer when you know there are choice cuts that have been left behind...

However, we could talk about your ambitions more- perhaps bounce a few ideas back and forth if you'd like.

>>8049366
This is a pretty complex situation, actually. Restaurants buy exponential amounts of ingredients, utensils, and single meal items (pre-shaped burgers, pre-weighed fillet mignons, pre-cut steaks, etc.). Since they have warehouses where they keep their extra frozen items, they can buy by the pallet. When you buy by the pallet, it is considered true bulk.

The way for you to get bulk in your business would be to buy meat by the case that is uncut. A good example I can give is that when bottom rounds were ~$3/lb, I bought a case of bottom flats (outside round flats) for about 2.10/lb because the store didn't have to use any man hours to make the sale happen. They just had to order it in (for around 1.48/lb, at the time) and make ~50% profit for no work, and with no waste.

Something that blows people's minds about restaurants and their profitability is their fountain sodas. It costs them a few cents (if that, depending on the drink) while it costs you more than $2 to get your glass. Some people say to me, "but the free refills, Butcher!" - unless you're drinking more than 60 refills, they've made money off of you. Most people average two to three refills during an average outing. That means you've paid $2 for something that costs ~$0.09. That's some pretty serious markup.

Let me ask you though- did you pay for items that were pre-cut and pre-weighed? Or did your catering service purchase full pieces to trim and portion them out themselves? That's where the difference comes in with bulk pricing items from a butcher or from a grocery store. If their guys are putting in the time, they can't give too much of a discount. Otherwise we'd be barely be breaking even due to labor. Especially if those 500 steaks need to be cut FRESH for that day's event. Sometimes it's more of a hassle than it's worth for the butchers/stores; so they chose to give you only a partial discount. It might be rough, but it's typically how it works.

Let me know if you need to know more.

>>8049422
I only know one person locally that sells turkey skins, but it's because his entire farm output is specifically turkey-based. He sells whole turkeys, live turkeys, turkey parts, and turkey eggs. If you wanted the skin, he'd be glad to sell it to you because most people that get the parts don't care for the skin and ask for it to be removed... But then again, it's only one guy that I know out of all of our local farms- so I guess it's not that common to see.

>>8049848
Most meats have many various differences between them. Based on where the muscle comes from in the animal (and how much it was used during the animal's lifetime) will greatly dictate the quality of the meat. The texture can be based off of its delicateness/underuse or it can also be based upon the types of muscle fibers that made up that muscle. Chuck roasts, for example, are made from a section of the animal's muscle that is long and stringy- this is why it makes for a great pot roast and for pulled beef.

The porterhouses/t-bones come from muscles that line the backbone. Since bones can support a lot of weight and take a brutal beating, these steaks are quite tender (this includes the new york strip and the fillet mignon; which are the two pieces on either side of the bone). The ribeye/delmonico steak comes from the rib section of the animal; which also does little to no work during the natural life of the animal. These steaks have a delicate texture as well due to this nature.

The taste of the cuts of beef also changes based on where it was from in the animal, but that has a lot to do based on the fat content and the type of muscle fibers that make up the muscles. Some steaks will just naturally be juicer and more tender than others- and it's based on the life of the animal.

>>8050035
If you're not using the grill (my preferred method), then I would advise looking for a sirloin that is between 1/2 an inch to 3/4 of an inch and pan frying the steak while basting it in a mixture of its own juices and an olive oil (or grape seed oil due to its higher smoking point) and butter combination (1-2 TBSP of butter in with the oil depending on steak size) throughout the cooking duration. Sear it quickly over high heat, then back down that heat for the rest of the time. Make sure to only flip the steak once before removing it from the pan.

If you have a favorite rub or steak seasoning you like to use, feel free to apply that before the steak hits the pan.

>>8026095

I feel it. I'm at Wegmans and we get the same shit there, constantly have management chasing off the real butchers and the shelf monkeys like myself are just expected to do everything else in the shop for the same wages. Get stuck spending most of the day cutting up chickens/roasts/steaks and service all at the wages of your average shelf monkey.

Wouldn't be so bad except I'm still the shelf monkey so I'm doing 2 jobs in a given day. Wegman's can be a real cunt sometimes.

>>8051087

>Sorry for the delay. Didn't get much of a dinner break at the shop. Late shift (and cleaning) is so tedious...

Atta Boy! Gotta have everything clean and sanitized for the next day. The grinder (and parts), the saw (and parts), the tables bleached (both sides, if necessary) and properly rinsed. Soap and rinse the floor. Sweep up the gunk on top of the drains and give 'em a good spray for good measure. Clean your service case trays and give the three-partition sink a good scrubbing and hose it down.

It really sucks to come in to a half-assed and shoddy cleaning job first thing in the morning.

>>8051290

The struggle is real. Once you know how to use your knives you're in the fast lane. Once you know all the cuts, you're able to move to another job later if you'd like.

I was mainly a counter person (and a stocker, I guess) by my "job title" at my first job. Sucked. However, I definitely learned what I needed to in order to get a better paying job later- so I guess I can't complain about learning through stress.

>>8051327
Straight up man. I was half an hour late finishing (though I stayed a few extra minutes off the clock to face some cases and put out a few extra steaks for tomorrow morning) because other people have been lazy the past few days. I had to clean off solidified blood and crud from all sorts of places on the grinder, the patty machine, the walls around the machines, and I also had to do a really deep cleaning on the bandsaw. The trench that takes all the water and meat residue was due for a cleaning too for a few days now- but no one else did it. Therefore someone else has to do it; this time it was me. It seems like only meat cutters and butchers seem to notice some of the simplest things that need to be cleaned in the department that no one does...

That place was pretty sparkly when I left (though not really... we both know a meat room really never "shines" aside from a few stainless steel tools/machines).

I'll be in first thing in the morning again- so I'll be happy to have a clean space to work in.

>>8051087
No problem. Would love too converse more and share.

I bought the first book u mentioned today and it shipped to me today as well. So, minutes ago i was reading it. Filled with info this book is.

I have been thinking of having my own shop and you could see butchers breaking down a carcass through a window. Make it like an interactive experience.

Also dry age carcasses. The curing can also take place in the same chiller i believe.

Of course this whole thing is dream material...but there is also a niche market that pays for that sort of thing.

>>8051482
We have one shop like that near where I live. But it's one out of the 100 or so locations we have within an hour's drive.

Their prices are high, and the people that shop there don't mind paying it- but their chops are lower quality than other shops locally.

They leave extra fat on the meat, their pork chops have additional sections on it that shouldn't be there... But they're being really smart to market the meat like they are so they're not wasting as much product in the end.

I plan to stop by sometime and see if I can go to the cutting floor- but I doubt they'll let me. It's been a while since I've seen a side of beef.... $16/lb for select (albeit, local) beef is a bit too high for a sirloin or New York strip steak for most of the locality.

The cutting floor is hard to see, in you can easily make out the final preparation area and the kitchen. All of the rooms have 6 or 8 foot glass windows so you can see the workers at all times. It's definitely getting some interest, but they're not super busy all the time.

My shop ages meat in our cooler. It takes approximately 4 or 5 weeks to get it where you want it, and you'll loose 2 pounds (give or take) of wight to your loin or delmonico in that time.

>>8051504
>>8051482

That's the last time I post with a mobile device. The post is riddled with context and spelling errors. Sorry about that anon.

*The cutting floor is hard to see, but you can easily make out the final preparation area and the kitchen.

Our shop ages meat in our cooler, it takes 4 or 5 weeks to get it to the right stage in its aging for sale, but you lose approximately 2 pounds of weight from your whole piece during that time.

>>8051465

Yep I'm not too worried about it, I rationalize it by being thankful for the skills and I've sparked my own interest for the field working here.

My only concern now though is the endless rumors of corporate... apparently, Wegmans HQ wants to get rid of our band saws and grinders, sell nothing but prepackaged things and only have cutters for the display case if necessary. A fucking shame if it goes through, but that'll be my queue to leave.

>>8051504
Of course feel free to answer questions that you want but, what area of the world are you that there are that many shops?

I live in central CA, andthere arent that many. Maybe there are 3 in my largest city and the next best things are small mexican or asian shops that of course have different and select products.

Another shop that i had a difficult time with(worked there as a vacuum packer) had most of their business as custom slaughter and butchering for local farmers.

I dont remember actually selling much meat out of the display cases. We mostly sold sandwiches/burgers and frozen sausages that had their own freezer display.

>>8051512
Im posting from my phone as well, im not offended and you making a few errors is nothig to mine own. These fat thumbs i tell you what!

>>8051516
Hah. Lots of local stores did that, and we're getting all their business now (well, most of it). Butchers around the holidays are incredibly lucrative- you have to keep that possibility of customization available if you want happy clients. Wegmans should know better.

>>8051520
I'm toward the east coast. I live by a very mixed rural and urban area, so there's loads of stores- whether they're farmer's markets, local markets in general, trade/bartering venues, grocery store, or super markets (or anything else I've forgotten to list). We've got a lot of options, that's for sure. Bodegas are in there too.

We have a smaller display case where I am, but all the cuts are at least an inch thick in it or they're a premium item (like our dry aged meats).

Our regular self-serve cases are huge though, and there's plenty to go around from what we cut during the day and wrap to go out.

Have you seen the film Steak (r)Evolution ?

Does your shop provide breed specific choices?

Like for ex. Scottish Highland steaks or Charolais chuck roasts?

>>8051530
I also just added those next 2 books to a woshlist of mine on amazon

>>8020540
I thought wagyu in North America was just Angus cattle cross bread with Japanese stock and raised similarly?

>>8051546
I haven't seen it yet- but it's on my watch list.

We don't do breed specific choices, but most of our beef comes from one company. We do have black angus on occasion, but we never advertise it. We're all about the grading. When we have wagyu we do mark it as such, but wagyu is an industry umbrella for multiple breeds.

>>8051659
We don't even get that specific with raising them most times to the best of my knowledge. Most wagyu in the US is crossbreed with another variety of cattle. Angus is common. There are a few farms that do have full-blooded wagyu though. Wagyu is just a Japanese Coe though, and does not directly correlate with Kobe- though the industry will have you try to believe that it does.

>>8051977
I see!

I know there's different types of wagyuu (I live near where one of the sub-types is raised). Definitely didn't know it existed uncrossed in the states.

Neat!

>>8052152
It's definitely a very rare thing (presently, at least) to find full-blooded/purebred wagyu cattle in the US.

Considering how far you are from some local cattle, I'm interested to know: have you had any of the meat? If so, how did you find it compared to other meats of similar grading?