Vegetarianism

>>7969886
>From where does the meme of being vegetarian is expensive come from?

People being stupid and buying pre-made vegetarian meals or "meat subsitutes" instead of buying produce and cooking from scratch.

I recently decided to stop buying meat (except for eggs) and I can confirm that it is cheaper. It's also not as hard as I thought it would be. It's pretty nice.

>>7969913
That's a good point, I never thought of that.

>>7969913
Stupidity surely plays a part but there must be some other reason, or are people that stupid?

>>7969946

Laziness? Inability to cook from scratch? An irrational fear of learning to cook from scratch?

IMHO those all fall under "stupidity".

Vegetarianism and veganism are just weird self-denial things that make no sense to me unless somebody is deathly repulsed by meat and such. The only immoral aspect to meat comes from some factory farms that mistreat animals.

Why wouldn't you eat meat? It's delicious.

I understand that you can monkishly sustain yourself on beans and lentils, but why? Variety is the spice of life.

As to the question of vegetarianism being expensive, I have never heard anybody say that where I'm from, only that veganism is an expensive privilege.

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>>7969925
>I recently decided to stop buying meat (except for eggs)

I certainly eat a lot less meat these days. I eat vegetarian most of the week. On the weekends when I have more time to cook I go carnivore though. I can afford nicer cuts of meat when i do eat it and I appreciate it a lot more.

>>7969966
My wife is basically vegetarian because she's never liked meat all that much and it doesn't sit will with her (she has crohn's as well) so she just doesn't really eat it. It's not a moral thing though.

Because it's just another bs excuse for not eating a vegetarian diet.

>>7969966
Ugh.

>>7969991
What did she mean by this?

>>7969995
Eating meat is a meme.

>>7969966
>beans and lentils

found the flyover

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>>7969886
When I was in the US I could buy quartered chicken for 50 cents a pound (Texas, HEB) whereas a 10oz box of lettuce/greens cost $3. It wasn't the fancy/organic stuff either. Meat can be much cheaper both by weight and caloric value than veggie stuff if done correctly. Omnivores don't eat steak and shrimp every day

>>7970240

I shop at HEB a few times a week. Have been doing so for years. The numbers you are posting are atypical--for current prices anyway.

Chicken quarters are usually $1.77 per pound. Sometimes they're cheaper if there is a sale, but that's rare.

>>box of lettuce
When it comes in a box or a bag it's highly marked up. The loose vegetables that don't come in a box or bag are far less costly than the prepackaged stuff.

Generally speaking the veggies will be cheaper, though there are always exceptions.

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There are many parts of the US where people do not have regular access to fresh food. What are people in food deserts supposed to eat? Because often the answer is gas station food. That's not a healthy diet for anyone. And good luck going vegetarian in a food desert.

>>7969966
People with moral just don't put taste over every fucking horrible thing in the world dumbfuck.

>>7970308
What constitutes a "food desert"?
I am not familiar with this phrase.

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>>7969989
Nope, meat tasting good is the only excuse I need. That and I don't have a vagina.

>>7970320
It's a place where supermarkets and fresh food are hard to come by. A lot of them exist in lower income areas of cities in the US. Grocery stores don't hang around since they just get robbed and nobody shops there. Since many people in those areas don't have cars they end up having to eat at the nearby kfc or gas station.

>>7970320

It's a place where food has limited availability. Usually a combination of a limited number of shops, and those shops only stocking the most basic of ingredients.

Examples:

A rural area where there are no supermarkets for miles around, just a small "general store" with a very limited selection

A run-down inner city area where the only options are convenience stores

>>7969886
Posting a God tier recipe I tried recently. Probably the best thing I've eaten in ages. If you don't have certain ingredients then you can always try your local Pajeet store, you'll get most of them for dirt cheap there. Also decrease the amount of spices a tad bit and add in a bit of ketchup. Not even kidding about the ketchup

http://www.spiceupthecurry.com/restaurant-style-kaju-curry-recipe-cashew-curry/

>>7970354
>>7970368
This happens in the USA?
What States typically have this problem?
I spent time in Imperial Valley (El Centro area) and thought it was pretty isolated but never saw this sort of stuff.

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>>7970378
The other guy's map shows the places where it's most common

It's caused by MUH HOME MUH CASTLE cager culture which discourages people from living in proximity to one another and also discourages sensible land use policies that put people's residences in reasonable proximity to places where they may shop and work

People literally consider it a status symbol that you have to drive 2 hours to buy groceries

>>7970308
The thing is pulse and lentils can be stored for months together if you know what you are doing. You don't have to go to a store every month to refill your stock

>>7970378
I can tell you that in southeast DC the only place to get food is a gas station or a popeyes chicken. It may have changed now because the gub'mnt started building fancy work facilities there but until recently the nearest actual grocery store was across the river.

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>>7970346
40% over 40 in America suffer from erectile disfunction and guess why? Clogged arteries from all the saturated fats. Enjoy watching your wife getting fucked by a potent male with your benus dat u have 8DD

>>7970613

Canned & frozen stuff. Sure, they do have meat but the selection will be very poor.

>>7970378
>This happens in the USA?
Yep.
>What States typically have this problem?
Depends on how the problem comes about.

One type would be to live in a rural area where there simply isn't anything nearby. That could happen in nearly any state. A good friend of mine used to live in St. Amant Louisiana. It's been several years since I've been there, but at the time the closest place you could buy food was a 25-minute drive away. It was a "gas station" that also sold clothes, hunting/fishing gear, farm stuff, and so on. Very basic food selection--milk, processed cheese, a few brands of cereal, some basic canned food, and that's about it really. Finding a big-chain supermarket or a Walmart required driving about 45 minutes.

The other way these pop up is in poor inner-city areas. That could occur in "the bad parts" of nearly any major city, but are mainly in cities whose economy has since collapsed. Detroit would be a good example. Theft and other crime causes the big supermarkets to shut down, and the only places still around are gas stations & convenience stores.

>>7969966
The majority of meat consumed in the US is raised in horrible conditions.

>>7970688

Indeed. So all you have to do is avoid the "majority" of the meat rather than all of it.

>>7969966
>abusing humans, not okay
>killing humans, not okay
>abusing animals, not okay
>killing animals, okay

what a strange world we live in

>>7970717

What's strange about it? You've heard of the food chain, right?

>>7970717
Humans are above subhuman animals

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>>7970719
Food chain is only working with natural enemys. And don't think about getting attacked by a bear because it will be shot right after you go to the police. Same goes for every other animal that could possibly hurt humans.
>muh food chain
>muh proteins
>muh dick

Meatards are fucking pathetic.

>>7970719
We can choose not be a part of it. We don't presently apply morality to, nor do we expect it of animals.

If there were a higher species that we could communicate with, and they decided they wanted to start eating us, would you just accept your fate?

>>7970744
Humans are the apex pretador. Stay mad

>>7970751
>If
Fuck outta here with hypotheticals

>>7970753
So what about the food chain you talked about idiot? The whole system can only work as a chain. Its not a pyramid fool.

>>7970392
I think you are completely off base.

>>7970764
>being this pedantic

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>>7970784

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>>7970792

>>7970792

Why are the vegetarians raising pigs?

Also, keeping sheep/chickens/cows till they die of old age is going to make their produce rather expensive.

>>7969886
it's everything you don't make from scratch that's fuck you expensive. I guess for a neet who doesnt .Ind wasting hours every day on cooking it makes no difference at all

>>7969913
Why even buy in the first place, just get some seeds from rotten discarded fruit and plant everything you need, don't waste electrocution either, walk to the nearest water source with some buckets, and grind the grain with rocks

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37034619

>Parents who restrict their children to a vegan diet could face a jail term if a controversial bill is passed by the Italian parliament.

>>7970312
Hey bro are you enjoying that child slave labour phone and computer?

>>7970827
They are rescued farm animals in sanctuaries.

>>7970396
I don't care about that, I have erectile discfunction anyways for masturbating twice a day plus I don't have a wife and I don't even want a girlfriend. I would rather eat the meat than become a farm animal being killed away for days and worked to death like a mule

>>7970867
Are you? At least I know where my shit comes from. http://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/

>>7970875
#rekt

>>7970717
I'm ok with abusing animals, I don't enjoy abusing animals and see no point on doing so but animals shouldn't have rights when most humans don't have fights in the first place and the few that do keep loosing them

>>7969966
I myself do it because of environmental reasons.

>>7970744
We have natural enemy's that's islam

>>7970875
Nonono I'm perfectly ok with it you are the one bitching, I don't share your sense of perverted morality you don't get to judge me by your rules

>>7970884
This is stupid, you can't affect anything environmentally on an individual level.

>>7970884

Becoming a mass murderer would be far more effective.

>>7970875
you sure about that boyo?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-gibson/how-the-iphone_b_5800262.html

>>7970792
so lions not eat meat? im confused

>>7969966
100% this. Instead of having a hollistic outlook on food getting a full range of nutrients & flavor from veg and meat, autistic contrarian eaters limit what they eat and managed to convince themselves that their slime covered shitballs don't look and taste disgusting.

>>7970695
Right, which makes it expensive. And that's an expense I'm okay doing away with

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>>7970295
I might have misspoke. It was chicken leg quarters (thigh and leg sections) rather than whole quartered chicken, but it was consistently 50c per pound in a 10lb bag. I was back in San Antonio for a few days in July and they still had it

>>7970013
picking food groups that you don't eat for no good reason is a meme like those anti-gluten cunts (not coeliacs, they alright)

>>7971004
There's probably some good reasons why non-celiac-disease people feel better after cutting gluten out.

One of the big ones is eating too much protein in general. Despite the modest protein content of wheat, gluten adds up in the diet due to the sheer volume of wheat products, and it's a methionine-rich protein.

Your body can only do two things with methionine: synthesize proteins containing methionine, or convert it to homocysteine. So any excess goes to homocysteine.

Homocysteine can be converted back to methionine (no good if there's too much methionine to begin with), or to cysteine. From cysteine, the body can do more things with it, but the conversion process has a limited rate (which varies from individual to individual, and can be affected by other dietary considerations), so you can build up an excess of homocysteine in your blood.

High homocysteine is terrible for you. It feels like stress. It attacks your connective tissue, nervous system, and circulatory system. It erodes your self control and enjoyment of life by acting as a dopamine-blocker.

People who go gluten-free or vegetarian and feel much better may have inefficient homocysteine disposal. They can also seem weird and stupid because of minor brain damage from homocysteine, and from having their dopamine blocked much of the time while their brain was growing.

>>7969886
>kilo
So are veggememes like cocaine?

I regret starting the vegan trolling.

Vegans and vegetarians are insufferable and should drink bleach.

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>>7970873
I masturbate twice a day and don't have ED. Can easily go 4 times a day and still remain rock hard.

Makes me wonder if these #nofap fags simply have to eat less cholesterol bumping foods.

Why is there a vegetarian/vegan shitposting thread on this board every day? Do we make you guys that insecure?

>>7970378
>This happens in the USA?
Friend, I say this entirely nonpatronizingly btw, non-Americans don't seem to be able to grasp just how large the US is. There's at least four states that I can think of that I can drive in a straight line in for 10 hours at 75 mph and still be in that state. We are friggen huge. It takes around 24 hours of driving to get from the Canadian border to the Mexican border.

This is part of the reason that American shopping habits are very different from European. In Europe, it's common to not really get groceries for more than a handful of days in advance. In the US it's common to purchase all of your groceries for a month at one time (probably the most common period is 2 weeks) because it's such a hassle to make it to the store and back.

>>7970751
>We can choose not be part of it
No we really can't.

>>7970907
I think the reasoning was less "lions eat meat" and more "lions eat meat therefore it's okay for me, another animal, to also eat meat" but the artist couldn't fit it all on there
>>7970881
>group x doesn't have rights, therefore group y shouldn't have rights either
A+ reasoning
>>7970892
I hate this. Yes, the environmental impact of everything you do is very, very small. But how many people do you think are sitting on their ass right now drinking out of a plastic water bottle, not bothering to recycle, pay attention to how much water they use or the food that they eat? There are a lot of people who do this because "someone else will do it for me" or "I won't make a difference." But collectively, if these people actually decided to do something, it would make a great impact.
>>7972202
I think the idea of giving up meat/dairy/eggs is threatening, even scary to a lot of people, so they need beat down the idea as much as possible. I can understand that, because there was a time when I thought I could never be veg either.

>>7972259
>I think the idea of giving up meat/dairy/eggs is threatening, even scary to a lot of people, so they need beat down the idea as much as possible. I can understand that, because there was a time when I thought I could never be veg either.
You're thinking about it too hard.

A lot of us live pretty shitty lives. Food is one of the few pleasures we have in our lives. Getting rid of some of our favorite foods literally is making our lives worse and all eating "better" gets you is more of your shitty life during the shittiest period of it.

I honestly can't see how people could have a problem eating fish and bugs

>>7972259
I understand not wanting to butcher animals, but I see nothing wrong with eating eggs and drinking milk.

this thread is full of twats and is not worth posting in

i've been back on /ck/ for only 4 days and I'm already tired of the echo chamber on both sides of these veg threads

you people do realize that you're insane right? all of you in here.

>>7969886
Vegetarianism is a fucking meme and you faggots should be deported to Australia or some shit.

>>7969966
It's cheaper to cook from scratch without meat than with meat. I feel bad about the animal conditions in the US, but not enough to stop eating meat. It's a good way to save money.

Being a vegan however is stupid economics wise because it's so limiting that you have trouble finding things to cook without using expensive replacement items.

>>7970891
Just because you call someone's morality perverse, that doesn't make it true. Refraining from killing is literally less perverse than killing

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>be liberal vegan
>desperately fight to import millions of natural born meat eaters from third world shitholes who will never give up their food culture

>>7972280
Butchering of animals happens regularly in the dairy industry.

>>7972524
This.

>>7972280
You can't take the mother's milk without killing the baby it's meant for. Think for half a second ya doofus.

>>7970867
>I can't stop everything so I might as well give up!

you do what you can while accounting for your own needs and desires. just being alive (choosing not to kill self) means you're going to participate in things that cause suffering for others. best thing a moral person can do is set a personal limit and keep pushing it.

it's not hypocritical.

>>7970308
I live in a rural town in the middle of nowhere and don't have a car, yet there's still a grocery store within 15 minutes of walking.

>>7970870
So they're forcing living creatures to stay on their land? Kidnapping and forced imprisonment?

>>7972643
Cows produce more milk than the calf needs. Yes, the big and scary dairy industry removes the calf, but small farms don't do this. Source: I live rurally and have worked on farms like this since toddler age.

>>7972691
They rescued them from Auschwitz 2.0 aka farm factory where pigs only got a cage about their size. They get plenty of room to spend their life until they die naturally.

>>7972699
Standing around and getting liquid sucked out of your nipples will make you weak. There's no endless milk source in cows. Their bones will get weak and they will be missing nutrients. When a cow is around 6 or 7 It will be too weak to stand or even function properly. Than it will get dragged away and killed for the "cheap" meat out of the supermarket.

>>7972282
at least people are discussing veganism -- not just hiding away in denial of animal cruelty like you. boo hoo they hurt my fweelings grow up you moron.

>>7972939
You have never seen a cow in your entire life have you anon

>>7972282
Insane is fun. Join us :D

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>>7969886

Friendly reminder that a vegetarian diet makes you almost 20% more likely to suffer from serious mental illness

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/vegetarianism-leads-mental-health-problems-says-report-1490147

>>7973003
It's more that mentally ill people happen to be vegetarian t b h

>>7973003
Shitty western vegetarian diet maybe.

>>7973118
Anyway posting some GOAT Indian recipes

http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/dal-makhani-restaurant-style-recipe/

http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/veg-handi-recipe-vegetable-handi/

http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/cutting-chai-recipe/

>>7973123
http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/chilli-paneer-dry-recipe/

If you don't have certain spices with you then you can always visit your local Pajeet store

http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/aloo-tikki-frankie-recipe/

You can use tortilla for this one

>>7973129
http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/veg-cheese-toast-sandwich-recipe/

http://www.vegrecipesofindia.com/kulfi-falooda-recipe/

You can find most of the ingredients at your local Pajeet store, replace the kulfi with vanilla ice cream if you don't like kulfi

>>7972663
Oh shit. Everyone else who spoke on the subject must be wrong about food deserts existing because this anon has a grocery store.

>>7972524
>Refraining from killing is literally less perverse than killing
No, it's literally (and literally literally, not emphatic literally) not.

>>7970396
Typical vegetarian logical fallacy. First of all, unlike vegetarians, meat eaters are not absolutists. We eat veggies too. Just because you someone isn't a vegetarian doesn't mean they eat meat in excess.

Secondly, being a vegetarian doesn't make you healthy. Most leading cause for obesity in the west is sugar. Also our diets are way too carb-heavy. Pizza, candy, pastries, chips, soda and so on are all acceptable within vegetarianism. Meat isn't the main cause of obesity in the west. And the lead cause of obesity in the west, is acceptable food for vegans. I know many vegans who are in it for the "ethical" reasons just end up stuffing their faces with fats, bread, chips and candy.

But for deluded vegans it always goes like this:

>meat eaters only eat meat. they also eat too much meat.
>vegans always have perfectly balanced diets with various different plants and fruits.

>>7975298
>First of all, unlike vegetarians, meat eaters are not absolutists.
If you tell me that you're gonna keel over and die of B12 deficiency by giving up meat, you're an absolutist. That's incorrect, and you're wrong.
>We eat veggies too.
2 scraps of iceberg on your Five Guys burger? Please
>Just because you someone isn't a vegetarian doesn't mean they eat meat in excess.
That's true, but 100% of the time when you see someone getting triggered by the idea of cutting back on muh hamboigahs, guaranteed they eat meat to excess. When you hear someone say "I'm an omnivore" what they mean is "I eat like shit but muh B12"

Most "vegetarians" actually aren't, they just say they are so that carnists don't constantly try to shove meat down their throats. It's like going out for drinks with a bunch of out of control binge drinkers, if you have one you'll have to argue your way out of having ten more, if you just say you're a recovering alcoholic, they leave you alone.

>>7975315
>If you tell me that you're gonna keel over and die of B12 deficiency by giving up meat, you're an absolutist. That's incorrect, and you're wrong.
I didn't tell you that. Nice strawman though.
>2 scraps of iceberg on your Five Guys burger? Please
Please refer to my original post. You're doing exactly what i described. Vegetarians believe in an perfect caricature of vegetarians and the most awful caricature of everyone that isn't a vegetarian. Your whole post absolutely reeks of this.

>>7975332
Here's what I had for breakfast/lunch yestreday:
>>7969102
You were saying?

>>7975315
Especially the last part is completely true. For example my parents are like that. They absolutely loved my Falafel though, which really made me think.
I doubt that a lot people actually want to eat that much meat, they often just can't think of a full meal without any meat anymore, that's also why they try to shove it down other peoples throut. They just can't imaging you being happy and sated without eating any meat

>>7975391
>>7975315
>Most "vegetarians" actually aren't, they just say they are so that carnists don't constantly try to shove meat down their throats.
What fucking world do you live in that people are constantly trying to shove meat down your throat?

I mean...I've got to go all white girl here with I can't even...

I have seen banter between meat eating friends and veggies that was just banter. I've seen veggie friends be offered meat containing food because the other party didn't know the veggie friend was a veggie. I've seen serious discussions over the merits of either diet, but I've never seen anyone within my circle of friends actually trying to force their diet on each other because well, we actually respect each other.

The times I've been out and about with my veggie friends, I've never seen them accosted or otherwise having meat foisted upon them, but these are also the kind of people who don't rub everyone's nose in their personal choices, so maybe that might have something to do with it.

>inb4 I don't shove my beliefs in everyone's faces
You use the word "carnist". There's no way you can shut up about your dietary choices, and I have a feeling that what you're calling "forcing" is people who don't fully understand that it is possible to have a healthy veggie diet questioning your choices because they care about you and your health.

>>7975437
>The times I've been out and about with my veggie friends, I've never seen them accosted or otherwise having meat foisted upon them,
Exactly my point. It's like hot girls who say "I have a boyfriend" reflexively when guys come running up to them. Even when they don't.

Those people probably aren't actually vegetarians, they just say they are as a matter of social convenience so you don't stage an intervention because "I care about you and your health", lol

>>7975454
No, my point is that this isn't happening even though they don't tell everyone.

>>7975473
They've obviously told you, and here you are getting triggered by the idea of someone who isn't shoving a huge heap of 80/20 hamburger topped with bacon down his throat 3 meals a day. Evidently that was enough for you to lay off because "I respect that bro"

Obviously, they've got carnist culture figured out pretty well, even though you haven't.

>>7975485
I'm not triggered by anything. I'm just pointing out that if the people in your life are foisting something upon you, you need to either find other people to be around, or evaluate your behavior. I don't care what you do or don't eat. It has next to nothing to do with me.

>Obviously, they've got carnist culture figured out pretty well, even though you haven't.
Yup, the reason you get shit on is you incessantly fling shit.

>>7975485
Who is getting triggered?, OP was talking about prices of veggies but look who end up doing a rant and insulting the other posters who have showed to be be far more sensible than the angry kid who thinks its better than someone else for dietary choices. Get a grip sheltered asshole.

>>7975437
In my experience it's not active harassment, or something like that. They don't tell you to eat some fucking meat right now.
I think it's hard to describe, but many people just do it passively probably without even knowing it.
I never struggled with my buddies about this (oddly, now that I think about it a lot of them are actually vegetarians), but when visiting my grandparents/parents they basically try to always offer meat.
Breakfast some ring bologna and bread, Steak/Schnitzel with X as lunch and some salami with bread for dinner.
They really think they're doing you something good (I'm still a College student with not that much money), but even after telling them that you don't like meat that much, they won't stop.
Simply because they can't think of a nice, especially lunch, meal without meat. Surely the german cuisine is to blame a little, as there's a lot of meat in it, but who doesn't know some for example italien recipes in this day and age.
I'm not even vegetarian, but eating a week long meat for every meal? Fuck man, shit gets disgusting.

>>7975492
Nobody foists anything on me, as you've noted, you can find others to eat around. But I do occasionally eat with carnists like you, and they literally. will. not. consider. anything other than muh hamboigahs.

I like hamburgers don't get me wrong. But I can't eat that kind of thing every day, let alone every week. It just doesn't suit me.

So I dine with such people maybe once a month, at best. Thing is, they tend to be not the most interesting people anyway, so that's just fine. It's workplace diplomacy.

I can perfectly well understand that if there's someone where, for whatever reason, you might eat with them more often, that they would tell someone like you that they are vegetarian. Because, obviously, you feel that there must be something wrong with someone who chooses not to eat meat. Without a label to pigeonhole them and say "oh! well, they're just crazy!" you have to constantly seek validation for your carnism and perhaps express "concern" for their health.

Yeah, I can see why they might have told you they're veg.

>>7975497
That's just your generation being entirely graceless. Accept things in the manner in which they are intended. I'm not saying eat meat that you're offered if you have something against doing so, but don't get offended. Do the "thanks but no thanks" dance, and move on.

It's like some hardcore atheist getting offended if someone says that they'll pray for them when they're sick or something (not the directly judgemental "bless his heart" or other bullshit that's intended to cause offense, but you know what I'm talking about). Yes, it doesn't line up with your beliefs and might be directly against them, but the intent is good. It's an attempt to show caring.

And hell, be thankful you have someone out there who worries about you enough to be willing to face your ire to do something that'll help you. This is a big cold world where that kind of devotion, even if it's not in a form you approve of, is a rare and precious thing.

>>7975500
Holy shit at the projection and strawmanning.

You seriously need therapy friend and it has nothing to do with what you eat. You are legitimately broken.

>>7975506
Where did he say he's getting offended? You're the only one going off on a tangent about "graceless" and respect your elders. Just because someone doesn't want to be constantly horking down heaps of bologna? Get a grip.

>>7975508
>You are legitimately broken.
Don't I know it. I'm not, literally right this second, unable to breathe from the wads of barely chewed 80/20 hamburger meat that I'm inhaling like some kind of jungle snake eating a dead rat. God, I should totally see a psychiatrist or something.

>>7975516
>>7975513
wew lad

>>7975506
I'm not offended at all, really. I'm not angry at them for that either, it's just something I noticed. They want to do something good for you and associate that with meat. Not because you dislike it, but because they are used to it.
As I said, they pretty much absorbed my Falafel because they actually enjoy meatless food as well. Just when they think about vegan/vegetarian food they don't think of some dank ass curry, some falafel, or even pasta with X, they immediately think of that horrible tofu schnitzel and similar shit.
They are just conditioned to think good food needs meat. And that's why they want to offer it to you. Because they really think they're doing you something good.
Partly that's a good thing, since it shows they care for you, but on the other hand it's also an unhealthy habit and I care for them as well. Also some vegetarian/vegan stuff is god tier and I feel like they are missing out. I want to change that and do them something good, that's why I cook from time to time now when I'm at home and show them some nice meatless food.

>>7975315
Nice bait.

>>7975315
>>7975454
>>7975485
>>7975500
Just wow

>>7972699
>small farms don't do this
moot. vast majority of people don't eat from small farms.

>>7976607
>people don't do it a certain way
>therefore it's pointless to argue that people should do things a certain way because people can't change the way they do things
Carnist logic

>>7969886
The $2 per kilo claim being false for anything other than legumes, cereals, or potatoes aside, nobody would recommend eating as much meat as veg, so a 1 to 1 price comparison is dishonest.

>>7972280
Vegans anthropomorphisize animals and see eggs/milk as a form of theft (and rape, considering only cows only produce milk after pregnancy.

>>7969946
Yeah, vegetarians are generally stupider than regular eaters.

If you're a vegetarian I'm sorry, but it's the truth. Think of it this way, at least you're not a vegan.

>>7976665
plus male chicks/calfs are culled too.

>>7969886

I eat vegetarian three nights a week purely because it's cheaper.

So, I don't know where it comes from, anon. Maybe from people who do nothing but eat prepared/frozen food from Whole Foods?

This pretty much steams from the same meme as healthy food are expensive. Which is that people don't know how to cook.

>>7969966
>unless somebody is deathly repulsed by meat
how can someone achieves this condition?
right, by eating too much meat...red meat especially.
the variety you talk of can be found in just vegetables. trust me. and its not expensive but indeed i admit the proper use of it is a process which needs a bit of time and commitment.

So I'm really late to this thread, but damn it's fun seeing the shit-flinging that always takes place in these threads.

>>7976839
i primarily eat a vegitarian diet out of necessity, not coz of any bullshit ethical shit. i love beans and vegitables and its much cheaper to eat like that regularly. i eat meat as much as i can afford it

>>7977382
Then you're not a vegetarian, you just don't eat a lot of meat.

Can't imagine why, though, meat isn't THAT much more expensive. I mean, it is, but you can bring it pretty close by not being too picky while still getting a good meal.

>>7977471
>can't imagine why he'd tell me he likes vegetables, there must be some mistake!
You forgot to express "concern" for anon's health, carnist-kun

>>7977471
>meat isn't THAT much more expensive
It doesn't keep well without a freezer and takes up more space than dry goods.

>>7977478
I wasn't talking about that, anon. He said he eats meat as much as he can afford it, I was just wondering why that's so rarely.

>carnist
What does that even mean? Are you the guy who got laughed out of the carnie thread for thinking that's a guy who eats meat instead of a carnival worker?

>>7977487
Oh, so you probably live way out in the middle of nowhere, far from convenient stores.

That explains it a bit I guess.

>>7977487
Those seem like really minor complaints.

>>meat doesn't keep well
Neither do fresh vegetables and fruits. Luckily there's a zillion ways you can preserve either. Or just not worry about it and buy as you need it.

>>takes up space
Are you living in a coffin or something where space is really that precious?

>>7977488
>What does that even mean?

It's a word that some vegan made up to insult meat-eaters with.

>>7977498
Doesn't really sound insulting though.

>>7977492
No, but i have a tiny freezer and the nearest shop gouges prices because it's the only one in a large residential area

>>7977488
It means you're fixated on the idea that every meal is based on a huge pile of meat, because you have never tried anything different so you assume something must be wrong with anyone who does

>>7977508
I never use a freezer for meat so that's pretty odd to me.

>>7977513
Oh. Well in that case you're wrong, I'm perfectly fine with meals without meat. I'm just not particularly drawn to them either. If it works it works, there's no reason to force either type of meal.

>>7977488
>What does that even mean?
It's their way to make normal people into "thems".

Experiment: If you blindfold yourself and smell some hot fresh food, note how tasty and good it smells, then take the blindfold off and repulse in horror because you realize it's meat, then you're lying to yourself.

Humans are omnivores.

>>7977535
It doesn't matter, veganism is a dumb political fad.

Just goes to show that it doesn't matter what it is, when you mix in politics it gets worse.

>>7977535
Experiment: if you think of a balanced diet and you start to feel faint, panicky, indignant, confused, angry, and self-righteous, you are a carnist

>>7977535
veganism isn't based on taste at all tho?

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>>7977557
>It's impossible to eat a balanced diet if you eat meat!

>>7977559
Vegetables are icky

>>7977557
That's not how you spell vegan.

>>7977572
Did he say that?
Many people just swapped the Bread, Cereal, Rice & Pasta part with meat.
There's nothing wrong with eating meat.

>>7977572
Take a closer look at the graphic, it doesn't mean what you think

>>7977557
If you have sex in anyway but for the purpose of reproduction, or use a contraceptive, it means you're not vegan. Sperms are living creatures, they want to live out their purpose, denying them this is disgusting and in league with carnists denying animals the right to live a happy life. If you swallow your boyfriends cum, or even if you spit it out, you've denied animal life the right to happiness.
You cannot be gay and be a vegan, it's as simple as that.

>>7970857
It's sad that you consider cooking for yourself as some sort of complicated, archaic task

>>7970308
>americans
>complaining about distance
mate, if you live more than 50k's from the supermarket you just buy a few month's worth of food at a time.

>>7977589
So if I fucked your mom in the butt last night after eating a salad without making loud gagging noises, am I a vegan or not? Can't have it both ways, carnist-kun

>>7972194
>I'm a typical 20-something 4chan user
>I don't have ED right now at this present stage of my life
>I will always be able to knock out 4 a day
Wait until you get older mate.

>>7977596
How old are you to where you don't know what "sex for reproduction" means? I thought they taught sex-ed in schools now.

>>7977600
She's only 27, m8
Can't come in her pussy without giving you a half sister

>>7977572
It's a good thing theres a key there which tells me that fat is yellow circles and sugar is white triangles, it would be terrible if i didn't know that

>>7977559
No, vegetarianism is based on taste, but veganism is not.

>>7977596
>Hehehe I said I fucked his mom... I am such an epic vegan panzer
>"Anon, it's time for dinner!"
>FUCK OFF MOM I DONT WANT ANY DINNER YOU MAKE, I'M A VEGAN, AND YOU'RE A MURDERER
>"Okay honey"
>Hmmmm maybe I should tell my mom I fucked her mom, that'd own her carnist ass hardcore...

>>7977616
You were the one to bring up grade school sex "jokes"
Don't complain now that the discussion got childish

>>7972259
Animals attend a fucking population demographic you moron, I find the fact that you demand farm animals have more rights that Indian child slaves making your phones disgusting

>>7977620
You must actually be a underage b&, you perceive any discussion of anything 'sexual' to be a joke.

>>7972524
I'm not an idealist, I'm a realist. I take the world for what it is instead of hating everything that doesn't conform to my world view
What are you even doing in a cooking board as a vegan, you clearly hate food

>>7972655
It's not hipocrytal it's a declaration of hatred to humanity. Those child slaves are allowed meat from time to time that means they deserve it

>>7977626
>I was just pretending to be mature
Sorry but "vegetables are for the gays" is not an adult level of discussion. You're not fooling anyone

>>7977638
I said just the inverse, but I think you might be projecting a bit.

>>7977640
>that wasn't the exact wording of my post so I'm a mature grownup
No. Stop posting, child

>>7977642
I'm sorry you can't handle discussion without resorting to acting like a child refuting everything and saying "No u!"

>>7977630
Not eating meat doesn't mean you hate food. In fact, there's a compelling argument to be made that vegans have more encouragement to learn how to cook properly from their dietary restraints

>>7977644
Anyone resorting to gay jokes in a discussion about food has lost any grounds for complaining about civility or maturity. Just pretend to be someone else and say who are you quoting. It's your most dignified exit at this point

>>7977650
I'm sorry, but being gay isn't a joke.
There are many vegans who are members of the LGBT community, and if you can't handle the fact that people might be gay, then it looks like you've got a bit of growing up to do, kiddo.

>>7977659
>I wasn't really gay bashing though
Yes you were, fuck off

>>7977665
Um, please show me exactly where I "gay bashed"

>>7977665
Well, looks like he got angry and stopped responding. I sure hope he grows out of this vegan phase.

>>7977694
It's called having a life, neckbeard. You should try it some time. Sorry I can't hang out here hitting refresh like you
>>7977674
It was gay bashing, whether you are willing to admit it or not

You know, I had a thought, that maybe the reason that vegans become so irate is some primitive bodily response to a lack of meat in their diets, making them angry constantly so they'd be a more aggressive hunter, and in doing so, hopefully kill and eat an animal to solve their dietary problem.

>>7977721
>It was gay bashing

What was?

He asked you to point out specific instance(s), not just repeat yourself.

Reading comp isn't your strong suit, is it?

>>7977721
Uhmmmm, hey, welcome back to the discussion, now if you can't show me where I "gay bashed", it'd look like you're wrong and a liar, which could be indicative of you being wrong about other things too.

>>7977732
See >>7977589
We good? I get it, you don't hate gays. It's still disrespectful and I'm glad you're contrite

>>7977659

I can handle it, but I prefer if they don't handle my food. Hypersexuality, anal sex, blood and skin transmitted diseases and food preparation are a bad combination.

>>7977739
Um, try again sweetie, giving a blowjob doesn't mean you hate gay people, it means you're either a woman or a gay male.
You have no argument, veganism is bad, and you should feel bad.

>>7977760
Like I said, you weren't thinking you were being disrespectful. It's schoolyard conditioning. No problem. Even gay people do it. Fact is, it was an insult when you said it, and you're trying to spin it as something else, rather ineffectively I might add

Give it up, you have a misplaced sense of trolls remorse, you've indicated so, and we can all move on. This is 4chan, schoolyard insults are par for the course

>>7969966
Is it ever okay to enslave and kill another living creature that feels pain and has emotions?

You know what else is delicious? All the spices, sauces, and flavors added to meat to give it its "delicious" taste. It's the texture everyone wants.

Monkisly sustain yourself? You mean humanly sustain yourself? Unselfishly live on this planet?

Being vegan is cheaper than vegetarianism if you're not an autist who cant cook for themselves from scratch or you rely on fake meat products on a daily basis.

>>7977774
Being gay is against vegan morality, how many sperms need to die for your pleasure?

>>7977572
>using the outdated usda food pyramid as a source
>trusting the USDA
full blown autist deteced

>>7977783
Pyramids are trustworthy structures, they were built by great African kings and queens, you aren't racist, are you?

>>7977782
You're doing it again. You want to force me to accept your premise that gays can't have a valid opinion about eating vegetables. You want me to say "I'm a virtuous hereto and therefore my opinion is more valid"

Not stooping to your level, go fuck yourself

>>7977794
Uhmmmm, that's just what you're taking away from this. As a gay male, I think you may have issues

>>7977724
Vegans are irate because we see everyone as raging hypocrites and murderers. Everyone says how much they love animals and care about their pets and yet sit together at dinner and eat burgers and hotdogs.
You support the innocent slaughter of thousands of animals in your lifetime by eating meat. It is for selfish reasons. No one needs meat to survive. We live in a day and age where you can walk to a store and there are massive varieties of vegetables, fruits, and more available to us. There is no reason to eat meat besides selfish reasons.

We are angry for very justifiable reasons.

>>7977799
>gay people can't be homophobes
Omar Mateen pls go

>>7977805
Blowjobs aren't homophobic, what is wrong with you? Why are vegans so violently mentally ill?

>>7977811
I'm sorry you can't have a conversation about food without bringing your conflicted sexuality into every comment, but this has long since ceased to be about vegetables

If you want validation for your desires, find another board. /soc/ maybe, if you're too insecure to click on /lbgt/

>>7977803
Maybe justifiable in your own mind, but not reality

>>7977824
Are you saying gay people can't have opinions? That's pretty disgusting t b h.
It's like you can't even remember why you originally started arguing, maybe it's that lack of vitamin b12 that's causing memory loss...

>>7977827
>Reality
Youre a fucking retard dude. The reality is that we enslave, abuse, and murder innocent creatures for selfish reasons. THAT is reality.

>>7977848
How come you won't eat animals that die due to natural causes or accidental death then?

>>7977838
You can have whatever opinions you want. Being gay doesn't magically make you immune to homophobic statements, and I'm not going to dignify your homophobia by accepting your premise that only straight people are allowed to eat food that isn't hamboigahs

Now fuck off to a board that isn't about food if you want to argue about what sex acts are compatible with valid opinions

>>7977859
What are you even saying?
That's not an argument.

>>7977863
Go cry to /soc/ about it. Your sexual identity isn't a /ck/ discussion

>>7977864
You can't seem to remember more than a few posts ago, you became upset and told me to fuck off and that you had a life and that I was a neckbeard and that you fucked my mom because you interpreted from one of my posts that I was implying you were gay, so you flipped out, and now you're telling me to go away because you can't handle a discussion.

The whole vegans being mentally ill thing really isn't just an insult, it's really, actually, true.

>>7977854
That is a different story. I, personally, wouldnt. I believe any form of animal protein is bad for the body. If someone else wants to eat them, thats ok I guess by me. Gross, but go for it.

>>7977884
So you wouldn't object to lab grown animal flesh?

>>7977887
Not at all. I wouldn't personally eat it because of health reasons, but if others wish to continue eating meat I have no reason to be upset anymore. The ethical and environmental problems are removed from the equation.

>>7977880
No matter how much you stamp your feet and grumble about drinking semen, nothing you've derailed this thread with is in any way on topic. You seem to have no shortage of mental issues yourself, just because I'm not playing along with your maladjusted games does not mean I'm having trouble following. Unwilling ≠ unable.

Now run along

>>7969886
It's 4 dollars a kilo roughly in america for good chicken breasts. Plus, the amount of protein you are getting for that is way more cost effective

>>7977884
"I believe all animal flesh is bad for you"
Theres a difference between a fact and a belief. The fact that the body has built in mechanisms like ketosis to deal with an all protein diet proves you're wrong.

>>7977896
You're mentally ill and have sexuality issues.

>>7977908
There is quite a lot of evidence proving my claim. Our bodies can handle meat, that is certainly true. Now, is it optimal for our health? The evidence is pretty against that.
And before you decide to say im only looking into youtube videos or pseudo science, remember that the WHO (I believe it was WHO) released a statement claiming that ALL red meat and ALL processed meats (poultry and fish included) are carcinogenic. They are on par with cigarettes.

>>7977919
Eating cooked meat allowed for the development of bigger brains, get ready to devolve herbivore, you're gonna learn why theres a correlation with animals eating meat and intelligence.

>>7977925
That is actually a commonly perpetuated myth; based more on assumptions rather than true research. What actually allowed our brain size to grow is cooked starches, like potatos. It was such a dense energy source previously unavailable to humans before cooking.

>>7977911
Says the self hating gay carnist who starts raving about buckets of cum in a food thread

>>7977933
Early man wasn't vegan, there are no vegan countries, and no vegan cultures, veganism wasn't in public consciousness until super markets started having produce flown in year round. You ever think about eating seasonally as a vegan? I hope you like nothing but root vegetables and maybe winter kale during the winter.

>>7977947
Please cite all of my posts that mention cum.

>>7977951
>>7977589
So much for carnists having a good memory, the gout must be too painful to think clearly

>>7977957
Please cite all cum, thanks in advance

>>7977968
You're being inappropriate

>>7977976
By not having evidence to back up your claim, you have no argument, once again.

>>7977950
I never stated that early man was vegan. They were pretty damn close at times according to dental fossils, but we did what we needed to do to survive at the time. The old "survival of the fittest." We are living in a time where you can walk to the grocery store and buy your food though. There is an abundance of fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes available to eat. Meat is no longer needed like it once was. We arent cavemen. You can buy most food year round. Your argument is invalid.

Veganism is a social construct, it can only exist when there are massive intercontinental agricultural industries and methods of transport like planes to ensure a wide selection of produce can be flown in, and that companies can produce chemical laden nutritionally enhanced preprocessed "veggie" foods and artificial nutritional substances.
It does not exist in the natural state of dietary being. It is a form of conspicuous consumption to compensate for middle class guilt, cemented by a smug zeal of self righteousness.

>>7978004

I couldn't have said it any better myself. A thousand Internets to you, anon.

>>7978002
Oh, are we morally superior to cavemen now? Boo, those backward bigots who battled nature and the elements to survive. Truly we are superior now because we eat kale.

>>7978004
Its the same fucking thing with meat you retard. If we all were to eat the amount of meat in the typical diet there wouldnt be enough animals roaming free to support us.

>>7978018
I never said we are superior to cavemen. Back then it was for survival, completely understandable. Today though, we dont need to hunt to survive. you go to the supermarket and buy your food and willingly choose meat over all the other options.

>>7978021
Are you too stupid to understand that cows are domesticated animals raised on farms and not taken from the wild? We couldn't sustain ourselves either if we had to resort to botany, thats why we have agriculture, you brain-dead twit.

>>7978031
i never said they aren't domesticated, retard. youre the one bringing up how its unsustainable to live vegan without the agricultural industry even though it takes way more resources to produce livestock than it is to grow crops for people to eat. You are shooting yourself in the foot

File: 29state-ingredients-2-superJumbo.jpg (61KB, 576x864px) Image search: [Google]

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I think it's time that us vegans transitioned to a food free diet like soylent. Even though plants don't have a central nervous system, it's been proven that they do react to things eating them, we shouldn't enjoy making *any* life suffer by our direct consumption. The crunch of a carrot may as well be the crunch of a cows bone.

>>7978044
Did you know that it takes half an acre of land to raise enough meat for one person for one year, compared to one acre to grow enough wheat for one person?

Food for thought.

>>7978029
>Today though, we dont need to hunt to survive

That's right. We can eat whatever we want regardless of season or location and just let the big smoke-belching ships/trucks/planes and artificial chemicals take care of the rest.

>> and willingly choose meat over all the other options.

No, I choose meat AND all the other options. I think it's silly to arbitrarily cut out an entire food group from my diet, especially when there are vital nutrients whose most bio-available sources are animal-based products.

>>7977985
>anon expects notarized wireshark logs to prove buckets of cum is inappropriate in a food thread
Grow up

>>7978083
meat is not needed to be healthy. you can be perfectly healthy, if not moreso than a meat eater, by eating a vegan diet. What dont you understand about the cruelty of killing those animals? Do you just not care?

And yes, all the pollution is still an issue. Im not saying its perfect in any way. But meat production produces magnitudes more pollution in the end compared to growing crops for people to eat.

>>7978080

[citation needed]

>>7978080
I dont know where you are getting that information, it takes way more land to raise the animal because you need space for the animal to live and the space for you to grow the food. You need to feed the animal way more food to produce a small portion of meat for one person. All the grains or whatever you choose to feed your cow can be used to feed people. the conversion ratio is so fucked.

it take less than half the space to grow crops for people to eat than to grow enough crops to feed the animals to later be eaten

>>7978093
>What dont you understand about the cruelty of killing those animals? Do you just not care?

I care a lot about that. I think factory farming is horrible. But I don't need to avoid meat to avoid factory farming. I buy locally raised meat from family farms in which the animals live a life of luxury, except for they day they get slaughtered. I don't have a problem with that at all because quite frankly, it's much better than what would happen in the wild when they are torn apart by a predator, die slowly from disease, or die slowly from starvation when all their teeth have fallen out.

I don't understand why some people seem to think that the cruelty associated with factory farming means we need to avoid all meat rather than the problematic kind. Makes no rational sense whatsoever.

>>7978098
>All the grains or whatever you choose to feed your cow can be used to feed people. the conversion ratio is so fucked.

Generally speaking, animals are fed things that human beings cannot eat--either because we cannot digest it, or because the food isn't fit for human consumption for food safety reasons. Animals are able to convert things that would otherwise be literal garbage into something edible--dairy products and meat.

>>7978108
>I don't understand why some people seem to think that the cruelty associated with factory farming means we need to avoid all meat rather than the problematic kind. Makes no rational sense whatsoever.
But that's just carnism in a nutshell. It doesn't have to make sense from an objective point of view. It's an emotional agenda that holds that CAFO trashmeat is necessary for survival and anyone who suggests otherwise is obviously suffering from a b12 deficiency. Antibiotic abuse, human health issues in general, and so on, are intentionally subordinated to specious claims about how if you're able to eat a salad without making loud gagging noises you care more about animals than about yourself, or about people in general

If you've even thought about buying responsibly farmed meat, you're trying to take away muh hamboigahs and are probably killing babies with soy milk

>>7978150

There's no such thing as "carnism" anon. It's some silly propaganda loaded word. You should stop using it because (whether rightly or wrongly) it labels you as a nutjob.

>>If you've even thought about buying responsibly farmed meat, you're trying to take away muh hamboigahs and are probably killing babies with soy milk

I have never seen anyone claim or even imply that....except in the case of Vegans. Vegans seem to be the ones who lump all meat-eaters together under the same label, when there are clearly those who don't give a shit, as well as those who actually do care.

>>7978150
>It's an emotional agenda
You're seriously going to claim that eating meat is an emotional agenda when veganism literally is an ethical position based off of the idea of >muh animal feels?
And while doing basically nothing but arguing from emotion?

Poe's law is definitely in effect here. I honestly can't tell if this is a troll or a butthurt vegan.

>>7978168
>it's not real because I don't like the word
You're welcome to come up with your own term for people who have a panic attack at the idea of going one day without a hamboigah, but I'll continue to use this one because it gets the point across concisely
>>7978172
There we go. Let's ignore the points and start raving about the cute animal feelings. Carnism in a nutshell

>>7978168

I forgot to mention that another issue with you lumping all meat eaters together under the "carnist" label is that you alienate a lot of your potential allies.

Anyone who loves eating meat is a potential ally in your fight against factory farming because factory farmed meat, quite frankly, tastes like crap compared to truly free-ranged animals raised with proper care. I certianly do oppose factory farming on moral grounds, but I hate it just as much, if not more, because of what it has done to the quality of our food supply: flavorless chicken, pork that's so lean you can't even cure it properly, and so on.

You want to end cruel factory farming? You need to get with the foodies, not alienate them.

>>7978092
No proofs, no cum.
Sperm=\=cum.
Why must millions of sperm die everyday because you choose to be a cyber-vegan animal-product-free black hat who mentions "Wireshark" in his posting before depositing millions of still living animal cells into a tissue to die unfulfilled?

>>7978194
>but I'll continue to use this one because it gets the point across concisely

My point is that it *doesn't* get the point across concisely. It's vague at best, and obvious loaded propaganda at worst. The meaning may be very clear in your mind, but that's besides the point. The more important issue is how it makes you appear to others. When I first saw it written I had no idea what it meant. Did it mean someone who ate only meat? Someone who eats "too much" meat? Someone who eats any meat at all? In fact, even now I'm 100% sure that different people use it to mean different things. Frankly, when I see someone use it I usually dismiss them as a nut without paying any attention to what they are actually trying to say. If you don't want us to do that then you ought to word your arguments differently.

>>7978194
>There we go. Let's ignore the points and start raving about the cute animal feelings. Carnism in a nutshell
You're ignoring points and when you cite things like cruelty you are appealing to feelings.

>>7978196
What's the point in worrying about what carnists think? They already shriek MUH B12 MUH CHILD ABUSE at me for liking meat that doesn't taste like shit. It's an emotional response tied to many things, not least of which is cost. There is simply no way for me to make sustainable farming practices cheap enough for the average carnist to continue horking down cheap heaps of trashmeat for three meals a day without a noticeable impact on his food budget

It's not an issue that can be solved though discussion. No point in being diplomatic about it with someone who automatically shuts down as soon as he has to reconsider his addiction to muh hamboigahs

>>7978220
Cruelty to humans is a vegan scam, there will always be more antibiotics :^)

>>7978235
>What's the point in worrying about what carnists think?
You seem to be spending thousands of words and untold hours of your life developing strong emotions and rather retarded theories on how you think "carnists" think.

>>7978245
No U but for vegans?

This entire website is a huge waste of energy, and yet we're both here. Go figure

>>7978250
>implying I give a shit about what vegans think
>implying you have to go out of your way to be told by vegans what vegans think

I'm just here to point out that you're a broken person who needs therapy. This has absolutely nothing to do with what diet you are championing and everything to do with your disturbed emotional read of the word, obvious rage issues, and general lack of social intelligence.

>>7969886
>>>7978196
>What's the point in worrying about what blacks think? They already shriek MUH RACISM MUH DIK at me for liking a racially cohesive country that doesn't look like shit. It's an emotional response tied to many things, not least of which is cost. There is simply no way for me to make sustainable welfare programs cheap enough for the average black to continue horking down cheap heaps of fried chicken for three meals a day without a noticeable impact on his food budget
>
>It's not an issue that can be solved though discussion. No point in being diplomatic about it with someone who automatically shuts down as soon as he has to reconsider his addiction to muh gibsmedat

>>7978257
You're pee-pee caca, my dad works for intendo. This has nothing to do with carnism but doodoo brains!

>>7978108
You actually walk onto the farm and buy the meat directly? you see how the animals are treated in front of your own eyes?

I am having trouble understanding your reasoning. You want to spare the animals the fate of being ripped appart and eaten by others, so you decide to just kill them before that happens? Using that logic I could say that I want to murder children in syria before the gov can bomb them because its a quick death instead.

How can any form of murder be justified and called "human". what if I came and killed your entire family, but I shot you all in the head so it was quick and painless. Do you think thats a humane slaughter? You are not valuing the lives of other living beings and looking for any reason you can to justify murder. You want to murder the animal because it might get killed in the wild? That is retarded quite frankly.

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>>7978220
>You're ignoring points and when you cite things like cruelty you are appealing to feelings.
But surely you accept that reducing suffering for its own sake, even if have it's not your own suffering, is a perfectly justifiably rational ethical stance.

>>7978114
The foods they eat humans cannot digest, you are right. We are still using the land to grow those crops though. We could end up using that space to grow food to directly feed humans, as I stated in my last post.

>>7978277
That isn't fully true btw.

>>7978168
If you eat meat you dont care, because you are stil contributing to the suffering of millions of innocent animals. You are causing the rape, torture, enslavement, and execution of living being. You might as well be running a gulag.

>>7978281
Care to explain?

>>7978114

Chickens and pigs can be fed the scrap to get some additional protein out of the unusable stuff.

Cows not so much though. You could turn it into silage and feed it to them, but conversion rate is going to be too pathetic to do much about your protein per area yield.

>>7978281

The plant scrap after processing represents captured energy. You can use that as an input for the more efficient animals (chickens and pigs) to get some extra protein out of the field.

It costs extra water and fertilizer (because you aren't tilling it back into the ground) but it doesn't cost extra area.

>>7978266
Yes, you can do that and people do that, they do that every day in some places in the first world, and in third world countries you dumb fuck.
I don't don't care about a chicken beyond avoidance of actively inflicting pain on it, it's got a brain the size of an almond, some vegetarian Hindus don't even consider fish or poultry to have souls, meaning it's okay to eat them.

Do you know what goes on in nature everyday you effete limp-wristed beet boy? It's rape and murder all day long, it's a daily fight for survival for wild animals. Domesticated animals reproduce and die, just as they do in nature, the cycle continues, just because an animal didn't live long enough to die of disease or old age or get eaten because it became to old to outrun it's predators, does not mean it was 'murder' because a human needed to eat.
Murder is an entirely human concept, an animal feels no remorse for killing another animal. You cannot apply human morality to the un-human.

I know you feel good thinking "Well, I never hurt an animal because I'm a vegan!" But farmers fields are still cleared, bugs get sprayed by pesticides, mice are still poisoned, feral deer and hogs still shot for eating those crops, and animals are hit by the trucks that carry your food. Blood is still on your hands.

>>7978290
That sounds pretty metal.

>>7978266
>You actually walk onto the farm and buy the meat directly?
>you see how the animals are treated in front of your own eyes?

I raise my own meat annals,so yes. They have a good life free from unneccessary suffering or fear. When their time comes the animals are separated from the rest in a small pen with some corn on the ground. A bullet to the head and it's all over. The lights just go out. No suffering, no fear.

>>7969976
He probably meant animal products

>>7969966
>Why wouldn't you eat meat?

Because of the well documented negative effects it has on your health

>>7978328
Here is another one of the macho guys who thinks that killing helpless animals is just the circle of life. If you really feel that way why dont you go out and build your own house on some land and hunt for all your food? You are such a manly caveman I think you could handle it bro.

Wow im so edgy, I think killing is a moral and A-OK act. Fuck chickens they cant speak english therefore they arent able to feel pain or feel emotions.

you are scum. its 2016. There is absolutely zero need to eat animals. There is no justification for it. People like you are sick in the head.

You think that because bugs, stray animals, etc are killed in the process of farming and transporting the foods it means that we should just magnify that 10 fold and run massive Austwitz for animals? You're a fucking pussy. You cant give up meat because you are a limp dick selfish prick.

>>7978352
How do you feel about vaccines?

>>7978333
I do applaud you for not supporting factory farming, that is a step in the right direction. No debate there.

Still though, what if I took your mother and led her down an alley at night and shot her in the back of the head when she wasnt expecting it? Still humane now?

Speciesism is real. If you apply any of these scenarios to humans you wouldnt agree.

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>>7978357
Yummy. I think steak and chicken tastes 10 times as good when the animal has suffered greatly.

Fuck you, unless animals suddenly learn how to read and write and speak fluent english and contribute to humanity I'll keep eating their delicious flesh.

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>>7978359
Irrelevant

>>7978357
I want to see a show where they dump 12 people, 6 vegan and 6 normal separated into two separate teams in a forest with nothing but the clothes on their backs and tell them to survive a week and film it.

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>>7978381
Are you sure about that mate

>>7978379
>suffered greatly
>tastes better
What about kobe beef?

>>7978381
I agree, fat Asian people are abominations

>>7978381
I don't think it's irrelevant given that OH GOD PRECIOUS STUPID MINDLESS ANIMALS!! have suffered at the hands of humans to test and produce life-saving medicine/antibiotics/etc. to improve our survivability.

>>7978379
>Edge l0rd detected

In all seriousness though, do you own a pet? If you do, i am sure you know that your pet has a personality. It has habits. It knows when you are upset. It can feel pain if you accidentally step on its tail or bump into it. It's a living, breathing creature just like you. The level of disconnect is baffling and disheartening.

>>7978385
Your scenario doesnt prove shit. We arent fighting for suvival in the jungle, we live next to a super market with fresh food available always. Irrelevant

>>7978390
you got me there i just like making faggy vegans pissed off when I show I have no sympathy for stupid animals made to feed humanity

>>7978357
>>7978364
>I'm definitely not focusing on emotion. My arguments are entirely rational and not a sign of a broken person.

Seriously, where do you live? Who are you? I think we need to do an intervention before you harm yourself or others.

>>7978266
>You actually walk onto the farm and buy the meat directly?

Yes. I keep chickens for eggs and meat. I don't raise my own pigs, but I'm looking into it. Currently I buy pigs from small local farmers. I don't visit them every day, but every couple months when I need a pig I drive over there and pick one up. I don't buy beef directly from the ranch but one of my local supermarket stocks it. It's raised about 50 miles away on a small farm (not a factory feedlot, no corn feed). I hunt and fish too, though these days I do very little fishing. About the only thing I buy that comes from a factory farm is chicken feet. I buy them because they make such fantastic stock.

>>you see how the animals are treated in front of your own eyes?
Yep.

>>You want to spare the animals the fate of being ripped appart and eaten by others, so you decide to just kill them before that happens?

Not at all. I decide to kill animals because I want to eat them. That's the logic. I want food so I kill animals to get it. The reason it *doesn't bother me* is because of the reasoning previously stated. Animals raised in good conditions live far better than they would in the wild. They receive food, water, shelter, medical care, protection from predators, and plenty of space to run around and do their thing. I don't see a problem with that.

>>How can any form of murder be justified and called "human"
It can't, and it shouldn't be called human. Murder is the unlawful and deliberate killing of a human being. Killing an animal for food does not constitute murder. It's slaughter.

>>That is retarded quite frankly.
I agree. Perhaps you might work on your reading comprehension a little bit and you'll see that my reasoning is for food. The justification is that there is no appreciable harm done.

>>7978401
Dont you agree that suffering in any form is immoral? Your cognitive dissonance is staggering.

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>>7978394
Yes, you bring up a good point. I have several pets. The difference being they aren't autistic farm animals made to feed me, they're companions. Why would I ever feel sorry for a stupid cow or a stupid chicken? What are you, stupid?

Lovable dogs and silly kittens fit for companionship are not comparable to your stupid farm animals.

I would murder thousands of farm animals with my bare hands if it meant I was saving a human. Want to know why? Humanity is far more valuable in every single conceivable way.

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>>7978393
It's irrelevant because im a vegan for health reasons, i think i made that clear here

>>7978352


Try again you turbo autist

>>7978397
Veganism is irrelevant in the grand scheme, it exists only in first world places where you have nothing better to do than make your lifestyle based around your diet.

>>7978290
>If you eat meat you dont care, because you are stil contributing to the suffering of millions of innocent animals

All forms of agriculture do that, anon. What do you think happens to the animals whose land is bulldozed or burnt to prepare a farm field? What about the ones poisoned by pesticides? Fertilizer runoff? The latter is a huge problem and results in massive fish deaths. It's called the food chain, anon. Everything dies.

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>>7978410
sorry i wasn't paying attention

>>7978406
So your entire reasoning is selfish. With no care for others.

Using your logic "Animals raised in good conditions live far beter than they would in the wild" is pretty absurd. Lets take away all the freedoms animals have and keep them locked up on a farm fattening them up to slaughter eventually.

Animals just want to be left alone.

>>7978364
>Still though, what if I took your mother and led her down an alley at night and shot her in the back of the head when she wasnt expecting it? Still humane now?

Humane? Depends on to whom. To her? Yeah. It would be like flipping a lights out switch. Zero suffering.

To me? Not so much. Then again, we're not talking about me, we're talking about whomever or whatever gets a bullet to the skull. For that person/animal there is no pain or suffering.

>> If you apply any of these scenarios to humans you wouldnt agree.
And why should I be expected to agree? Humans and Animals are not the same thing.

>>7978408
>Dont you agree that suffering in any form is immoral?
No I don't. I also wouldn't say that one should go out of their way to cause suffering, but that doesn't make all suffering immoral.
>Your cognitive dissonance is staggering.
Except I'm not really talking about the arguments for or against eating meat. I'm talking about the histrionic anon who needs a mental health intervention asap.

I love how insecure people are that they would come into a vegetarian thread to say how they eat meat because it tastes good. Literally no one cares, pls. Go to /his/ if you want to troll about how meat is enlightening and so nessesary to life, this isn't the thread or board for that shit.

>>7978394
To add onto this, pigs are smarter than dogs

If you're one of those people that get outraged when they see some SEA people eating dog meat while you eat bacon and ham every month you should kill yourself

>>7978409
A lot of those "autistic farm animals" have been shown to be smarter than your average house pet.

Also, you dont need to kill those farm animals for humanity as you put it. We have plenty of other foods available to eat instead of the flesh of an innocent creature.

>>7978411
most third world countries are almost entirely vegan because its unrealistic to eat animal products unless you have a massive industrial agricultural system in place.

>>7978422
>Lets take away all the freedoms animals have

What freedoms are being taken away, anon? I'm not talking about factory farm cages. I'm talking about the animals having plenty of space (both sheltered with a roof and not) that they can run around in as they please. OK, they can't run for literal miles. But we're talking a density of, maybe 30-40 pigs on 10 acres. Hardly a lack of "freedom".

>>7978434
Most third world countries are too retarded to actually be able to figure out how to feed themselves with anything.

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>>7978414
Of course you werent, you meat fags cant think str8 when you throw a temper tantrum because someone points out that meat isnt good for you

>>7978413
You need more land to raise animals, therefore you kill more getting rid of natural land to make agricultural.

The main cause of oceanic pollution is all the shit run off from factory farms. pesticides and fertilizers for sure mess up the ocean as well, but you need more crops to feed the animals in the end so you still are better off avoiding meat.

you are all looking for any stupid reason to discredit veganism and its failing

>>7978423
And there is speciesism at its finest, gentlemen.

>>7978428
Pigs don't have a shared evolution like dogs do with man. Dogs have been shown to actually receive good feelings when they see the face of a human they know.

>>7978428
Forgot my link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3122303/Move-Lassie-IQ-tests-reveal-pigs-outsmart-dogs-chimpanzees.html

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>>7978441
no i mean i literally wasn't paying attention

i hop on these threads the moment i see them just to post shit to make vegans mad

i don't care about any of this

>>7978424
When is suffering justified?

>>7978448
You've dehumanized yourself mentally to the point that you would choose the life of an animal over a humans.

>>7978448
oh boo hoo excuse me for knowing the fact that humans are more valuable and better than your shitty animals in every conceivable way and should be treated as such.

i'd break 30 monkey necks to save a human

>>7978451
>dailymail.co.uk

come one man, you know better than that

>>7978439
Again, it takes more resources and skill to grow livestock than it does to grow crops.

>>7978394
>i am sure you know that your pet has a personality.
No, it has behaviours that some humans incorrectly identify as a "personality". It's not a person, therefore it cannot have a personality. The parts of the brain involved do not exist (unless we're talking about a pet chimpanzee).

>>It has habits.
It has patterns of behavior; that's not indicitive of anything.

>>It knows when you are upset. It can feel pain if you accidentally step on its tail or bump
It reacts to stimulus, yes. So does a coackroach.

>>It's a living, breathing creature
Yes

>>just like you.
No.

>>The level of disconnect is baffling and disheartening.

I agree anon. Why do you anthropomorphize things so much? Do you think it might have had to do with your being sheltered as a child and not being involved with, say, a farm? You never dig your own vegetables and feed the chickens with grandma? Help grandpa keep the rabbits out of the vegetable patch? Or maybe it was too many Disney movies with talking animals... Animals are not human.

>>7978445
It's never this simple. Being able to raise an animal on a parcel of land does not mean that you can raise crops on that hunk of land.

Additionally, when you include in things like seasons, even if a hunk of land is productive for crops, it can still be more efficient to use the land for animals because year round production is possible with animals where with crops you're limited to the growing season.

>>7978457
What does that even mean? Not having a stupidly human-centric mindsey does not mean I dehumanize anything.

>>7978457
You are the one being dehumanized. If an animal was attacking another human I wouldnt hesitate to kill the animal in SELF DEFENSE. Thats the key word. For self defense its justified, but just because you want your bacon or a burger isnt justification for shit.

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>>7978466
You're just playing stupid now, aren't you?

>>7978458
More valuable and better in what ways exactly? Vague statements like this are pointless.

>>7978460
lol if you believe this.

Try telling those people living in arid countries with little rainfall that they need to grow more plants, tell them to raise up some corn instead of camels.

>>7978455
>When is suffering justified?
Giving a child an injection of medicine that saves his life.
Childbirth
Temporarily restraining an animal while a piece of garbage is untangled from it's muzzle so it can eat again
Disciplining a child

>>7978463
Your disconnect is disgusting. You act like animals are automated machines that just react to impulses. That is a long outdated view that has been proved multiple times to be false. Animals experience emotions. They experience pain. They have free will. You are so selfish you cant see that.

>>7978470
You know, being able to reason, speak, write, think for one's self, create, invent, read, the fact that they're FUCKING HUMAN, etc.

If you seriously think animals are more valuable than humans in any way, you must be mentally deficient. Fishing for replies, surely.

>>7978476
lol you believe you can hit a child, but you can't hit an animal

>>7978464
What the fuck is the animal going to eat in the seasons when, according to you, you cant grow crops anymore?

>>7978470
uh how about the part where they're human period? do you really think a dumb animal can compare to the importance of a human life? autism at it's finest

>>7978460
>Again, it takes more resources and skill to grow livestock than it does to grow crops.
>hey, keep track of where this goat goes and when you get hungry kill it
vs.
>find right kind of ground that's kind of close to water
>clear out all of the plants that'll overgrow what you're trying to grow
>plant the right part of the plant (hope you didn't eat all of that shit before because often your seeds are the edible part of the plant!), ideally with some dead animal/specifically processed fecal matter/other kind of fertilizer
>make sure it gets enough water
>make sure it doesn't get too much water
>wait
>wait longer doing the above
>wai...oh, it's time to beat back the other plants that are trying to choke out your plants
>harvest and eat
>oh fuck it's winter I have basically nothing to eat

>>7978463
You are making statements without backing them up. Unless you are some creationist idiot, then you would realize that humans aren't some godly beings as you make them out to be. What actually differentiates an animal from a human in your mind. If you answer with an insult or an appeal to authority, you concede this point.

>>7978471
>implying people eat camels as a staple

What the fuck will the animals eat if there is no food sources?

>>7978468
>For self defense its justified, but just because you want your bacon or a burger isnt justification for shit.

So where do we draw the line? You seem to suggest that killing a pig to eat it is wrong. What about the alternative: bulldozing and plowing over a plot of land to grow crops there, then spraying them with chemicals (natural or otherwise) to control what lives and dies there? Is that presumably OK? Where do the draw the line?

>>7978491
Because shit like deer, elk, moose all die out every winter.

>>7978497
not him but maybe the fact that we invent and speak and write and read and reason and give our lives meaning beyond fucking and eating? it's shocking how many sociopaths exist on /ck/

>>7978499
There's no food sources for humans, but there's grazing for animals.
I think you should learn about what mongols eat.

>>7978469
>playing

>>7978476
Man you convinced me. Since giving a child a shot to save his life is making him suffer, I think all animals should be put into a gulag type slaughter house and tortured and slaughtered for my enjoyment. Makes sense.

>>7978482
Animals can communicate in otherways than speech. Elephants have been known to paint, gorillas can do sign langauge, and there are a million other examples. If you are getting angry or upset that people are ripping apart your arguments then that means you are experiencing cognative dissonance because the facts do not match up with your feelings.

>>7978508
You're right, I think he actually is stupid!

>>7978509
Haha, a chicken coop is basically a concentration camp.

>>7978494
Have you ever grown crops before? Because it seems evident that you have no idea what you are talking about.

>>7978481
>You act like animals are automated machines that just react to impulses

No, I said those specific examples you gave were not indicative of sentience, etc.

>>Animals experience emotions.
Depends on the animal, but yes.
>> They experience pain.
Irrelevant to whether or not they are sentient so I wonder why you mention it, but yes.


You are so selfish you cant see that.
No, I can see that just fine. You're just bad at picking points to prove your case and you are reading more into my replies than I actually intend.

I realize animals have free will. But sadly, mine is more important. I realize that I have to kill animals in one way or another to live. There's no getting around that fact. Therefore, I don't have a problem killing and eating animals. I have done it with my own hands countless times, and I will do so again. I will, however, make it a point not to waste anything, nor do I eat meat every day.

>>7978509
Look at those emotionally charged words, you're anthropomorphizing animals.

>>7978500
We should be doing as much as we can, as a first world educated society, to reduce suffering as much as possible. There is far less suffering in growing vegetables than there is farming animals.

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>>7978510
They do not reason and do not contribute to humanity. They do not think on our level. They are in zero position to be placed above humanity. Humanity is and should always be put above all, because they are far superior to every animal. We're man, the mightiest creatures on earth, remember? The only "animals" on earth that can reason, invent, debate, etc. I could literally list thousands of things that make humans surpass your shitty animals, but that'd only make you giddy because you're, as I expected, fishing for replies. Nobody can be this stupid unironically, I hope.

>>7978503
>invent
Depends on what you mean by this, but animals use tools, just as humans do.
>read write speak
Animals can communicate. Written language is not innate in humans, it took tens of thousands of years for those things to develop.
>giving meaning to life
Extremely vague point that isn't tangible.

>>7978502
You know there is such a thing as winter crops? As well as foods that can stay well throughout the cold times if its bad enough until the next growing season.

>>7978522
"Sadly, mine is more important."

here we go again with the speciesism bs. What makes you think your life is more valuable than anyone elses?

>>7978532
You know that "winter crops" are only a thing in regions where winters are pretty damn mild?

Food storage implies that during truncated growing seasons you were able to grow enough to not only supply through the year until the next harvest, but also include enough seed for the next season.

>>7978497
>would realize that humans aren't some godly beings as you make them out to be
I agree. And no, I'm not a creationist.

We, human beings, are animals. Just like mice and rats and lizards and cows and chickens and dolphins: we fight and kill each other. we ostracize ones of our own kind who are different from the rest. we eat, we shit, we fuck. And we repeat it all over and over again.

>>What actually differentiates an animal from a human in your mind
The ability to state and spell its own name in its native tongue. Yes, I realize that means that young children don't qualify as "human".

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>>7978530
No matter how many times you reply to me, it doesn't change the fact that humans will always be more important than your stupid animals. Animals will continue to ""SUFFER"" and be slaughtered for food and I couldn't be happier, because that's all they're good for. They're stupid animals and I alone am far more important than thousands of cows and dumb chickens. Stew on that, faggot.

and here he comes with a bunch of psychological lingo to make him seem morally superior even though he's arguing that ANIMALS should be treated the same way as HUMANITY, the most important thing in the world.

>>7978516
My bad, you're right. All you have to do is drop some seed on the ground and then through the magic of nature you'll be able to feed your family for at least a year.

I'm curious, have you ever grown crops on a level larger than a windowbox?

>>7978525
It is an emotional subject to someone who feels equal to all living creatures, while the rest of the world only cares about gettign their bacon on.

>>7978509
>Man you convinced me

I wasn't trying to convince you, anon. You asked a question of when suffering was justified. So I answered it. I didn't see anything about farming animals in my list. Did you? Why did you think that post said anything about justifying the killing of animals?

>>7978529
>they do not think on our level
What do you mean by this? We think to the levels of our enviornment. Do you think some isolated human tribe that lives on some island in the middle of nowhere aren't human because they are only concerned with eating and fucking?