Evidence Supporting A Vegan Diet

>>7620271
Take your time.

>>7620271
I'm not autistic

>>7620271
>Evidence

Peer reviewed medical journals are published on Pastebin now?

>>7620271
I enjoy the taste of meat and am fine that animals need to be farmed and killed for me to eat them.

File: ezgif.com-gif-maker.gif (698KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

698KB, 480x360px

>>7620321
IDK spamming "I'm not autistic" in unrelated threads seems kinda like something an autistic kid would do.

>>7620323
Are you seriously trying to insult this because it's too long of a list so I had to use pastebin?

>>7620326
Gardein tastes better and you're a mongoloid who didn't fucking look at any of the information.

God damn it I'm starting to lose my patience here.

Drinking cow milk in unnatural for humans but veganism is an eating disorder that is also unnatural for humans.
"The finding helps build the case that meat-eating helped the human lineage evolve large brains, scientists added."
http://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html

I am a vegan and my stomach hurts all the time. I cannot work. I am a 25 year old man and I live the NEET life with my 72 year old retired father. I wish I were dead so I would not have to eat and would not get hungry. If there were an easy way to kill myself I would do it but I am afraid of what would happen if I attempted suicide and failed.

>>7620327
>Are you seriously trying to insult this because it's too long of a list so I had to use pastebin?

No I'm insulting it because you used the word "evidence" when what you meant was "opinion".

Pastebin isn't a peer reviewed journal. YouTube is not a primary source. There is no "evidence" of anything here.

For future reference the word you were looking for was "opinion".

>>7620327
But it is related. I'm not a vegan because I'm not autistic.

>>7620336
Please don't get me started on that article. It's 2 in the morning and I don't feel like writing an essay for someone who refuses to look at the information that shows their link to be irrelevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVxBBuz7TUI

>>7620271

None of the moral arguments hold weight. This isn't the place to go through them but anyone with the capacity to think critically can work this out.

The environmental arguments largely rely on falsely assuming the rest of the world is as retarded as the USA in raising an inefficient animal on fucking desert or on prime farmland. Sheep on, say, the Scottish or Welsh highlands are nowhere near as wasteful as the land is worthless for much else and the animal more efficient than beef cattle. That doesn't even begin to touch on seafood, fish and chicken either (eggs are top tier and produced properly, rather than in batter, chicken will provide you with shit like capons).

Even if they did if we're going for maximum efficiency in land usage most vegan diets are actually pretty wasteful since they go for taste and variety as much as anything else (not to mention the need for mass production of certain supplements). Anything shipped in from abroad will be an environmental issue too and you better believe it's more difficult to provide a fully vegan diet in some countries.

Now assuming you mean health benefits then yes there are some but comparing a sane diet including meat to a sane vegan diet rather than to the average fatfuck diet will show you it isn't huge. Most value enjoyment in life over a few years at the shit-end of it anyway, assuming you are lucky enough not to die of any other random chance (disease, accident, violence etc). Same reason people binge drink.

Basically most arguments come down to mild benefits or smugness.

I like dairy. Sure, there's better things to eat but it's not that bad for you.

>>7620338
Are you having computer issues where you see something completely different from what everyone else sees? All the peer reviewed studies are linked on that pastebin because the list is too long to post here you fucking moron.

>>7620360
I just linked the evidence showing it is extremely fucking bad for you......

Holy shit...... I'm going to bed.

>>7620355

Meat eating as a catalyst for evolution of the human brain is pretty well known anon. One /fit/fag in the modern day hardly disproves that.

As for whether or not it's necessary now for a functioning brain probably not but it was originally.

Of course what is natural is not always what is good. Drinking cow milk is 'unnatural' means shit all when humans do many, many things that are 'unnatural' of which veganism is but one.

>>7620362

You type like someone from tumblr. This is not a surprise.

>>7620362
I don't care. I drink liquor and smoke the occasional cigar. I like it, I'm going to do it. Life is fucking short and not worth being a faggot over. I don't consume a ton of dairy. I'm sorry I don't conform to your vegan religion.

>>7620361
Which you've mixed in with a bunch of YouTube videos.

Like I said, Pastebin isn't a peer reviewed journal. My criticism is valid: peer review tends to notice and correct things like cherry picking your sources, as you have.

Like I said, your opinion "backed up" by a bunch of articles (and YouTube videos) that you've cherry picked to support your pre-supposed position isn't "evidence". It's "opinion".

>>7620361

>All the peer reviewed studies are linked on that pastebin because the list is too long to post here you fucking moron.

Anon you can cherrypick a study to prove almost everything is carcinogenic in excess or if produced in a poor way or is simply 'linked' to poor health. Lies, damn lies and statistics and all that.

Hell half of those links focus only on the extremes of battery farming or similar. And a good number of the health studies are sticking vegans against the average diet which merely proves those who carefully watch what they eat and avoid overly processed foods (which are largely meat-based) are healthier.

Again comparing two reasonable diets, one vegan and one not, will show you the benefits are fairly minimal. They're there but again most people are not giving up drink for minimal benefits, why do it with meat?

There's no such things as a "vegan diet" so all of the studies are bullshit to begin with. If I eat rice, sugar and oil exclusively every day, that's a vegan diet and yet it will be tremendously unhealthy compared to a balanced omnivorous diet. The whole premise of "veganism" as a completely separate category of diet is retarded since the difference between a 95% vegan diet and a 100% vegan diet is actually no more than 5%. My diet is 90 - 95% vegan by calories and yet veganfags will call me an omnivore and unhealthy and immoral because I eat some fish and cheese a couple times a week.

>the doctor told me I need to eat more carrots.

>I had to remind him I was human

Also the vegan who made that is letting her child get nutritional deficiencies just to feed her ego.

>Why aren't you vegan?

beause i like meat and i like eggs and i like milk

so go fuck yourself because your twiggy vegan gf will snap in half before you have the opportunity

>>7620416

hey you're pretty retarded anon idc if you're vegan or not u should still be eating vegetables you pretentious motherfucker

File: 1460872718813.jpg (22KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 300x300px

>>7620329
no your just fucking self-righteous. your nose so high in the air at us meat-eating plebs because you think you found some "credible" info to justify your strange eating habits. stop fishing for admission of guilt from us, because you wont get it, hippie fuck.

>>7620443
I was making fun of the OP image you stupid fuck.

>>7620450

>implying i read the text on an image posted by a vegan OP
>especially when i'm drunk

u expect too much of me

>>7620456
s'alright m8

just started drinking an hour ago myself desu

File: 1460817899657.webm (3MB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 640x360px

need sum meat in here lads

>>7620271
Careful OP.

There are big pharma endorsors and trolls in this very thread so you won't get far.

Your post looks so jaaring amongst all these fast food posts don't you think?

File: 1461367396798.jpg (270KB, 1351x1013px) Image search: [Google]

270KB, 1351x1013px

>>7620466

lol veganfag always gets the newfags

File: nutella-buttercream-DSC_5275.jpg (118KB, 640x964px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 640x964px

>>7620271
I'M WORKING ON IT.
Getting the right substitute of salt-free butter in my baking (icings, custards) is difficult.

Although it doesn't have hormones, coconut oil has a worse fat profile than butter. They don't sale aquafaba in the store either so it's not on-hand often for the egg white replacement in meringues.

I want to be vegan but I can't seem to give up eggs and cheeses for selfish reasons

>>7620468
would be gorgous if it wasn`t for that baguette. So many Sandwiches are ruined by the bread to me.

I'm not vegan in the same way I'm not gay or black. I just had the rotten luck of being born normal.

>>7620271
I'm not a vegan because I'm not a faggot. Like you are op.

Evidence that people can live a healthy life with a vegan diet without supplements can be found at blank.org

>>7620374
There are plenty of links to peer reviewed sources you double nigger

I'm not a vegan because it's a weird white supremacist moralistic ideology. Eating a mostly plant based diet is good for the body and good on the environment. assuming you have a moral superiority due to the arbitrary and impossible for a lot of people restrictions on your diet is ignorant at best and maliciously culturally imperialistic.
I hunt because in my country deer are an introduced pest and it feeds me and helps the environment. how could this possibly be morally wrong?

Because I'm not retarded

>>7620329
Good, maybe you'll leave. Nothing you post will convince anyone of anything. Other than your own self righteousness.

I am vegan because I want to reduce suffering on this god forsaken planet.
Nothing should be murdered because I'm hungry.
Meat eaters get mondo offended by anyone threatening their views, but I have converted a few people now and it feelsgood.

File: nattsun.png (162KB, 780x720px) Image search: [Google]

162KB, 780x720px

>vegans who have to take pills if they don't want to die think their eating disorder is healthy

File: 1457808090464.png (2MB, 1175x941px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1175x941px

>>7620359
Copypasta saved.

>>7620271
Because I'm not a fag

>>7620271
I'll continue eating meat just like the longest lived populations in the world.

>>7620271
Because I can eat anything I want and so can other people. I don't give a shit about what others eat and you shouldn't either. You won't be changing their minds by antagonizing them like a Muslim in Germany.

>>7620456

>especially when i'm drunk

That's no excuse on /ck/ faggot. Everyone here is either drunk, a Scottish shitposter (i.e. a drunk), a tumblr-vegan or a housewise.

Or, I suppose, a Filipino housewife with poor kitchen hygiene.

I fear for the day some mod finally tried to enforce 'post quality' on this most holy of boards.

File: patheticbait.png (23KB, 625x626px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 625x626px

>>7620271
fuck off

>>7620722

>Nothing should be murdered because I'm hungry.

Do you know how many animals die as a direct result of industrial farming techniques?

Do you know how many die indirectly?

Hell depending how you want to define murder a significant number of vegas is going to reduce the number of animals that even get a chance at life. Properly farmed animals have shit pretty good all considered.

Out of interest also what's your position on abortion? This might seem irrelevant but if we're asserting the right of fucking fish and poultry to survive it's a relevant question along with the standard 'where do you cut the line?'. Do we go down to the insect level? If so why stop there. If not then what's your minimum definition for something to have a life to be ended (i.e. 'murdered').

>>7620699

>how could this possibly be morally wrong?

Many modern vegan theories rely on treating animals as moral equals. The famous 'speciesism' bullshit goes along these lines.

Do note that they are given SOME of the same moral rights as us without any of the same moral duties. Of course even the moral rights they're given are arbitrary and only extend as far as not being eaten instead of, say, a moral right to housing, voting, protection and so on.

A lot of this half-baked ideology rests on comparisons with the mentally disabled or children but the former actually get the right to vote in most countries and both are given certain rights in terms of housing, access to land and so on.

And as that other anon says ask a vegan to explain their ideologie's compatibility with abortion. You wouldn't believe the meltdowns it causes.

>>7620722
>Nothing should be murdered because I'm hungry.
Why do all the other animals get to have all the fun?

>>7620390
>Hell half of those links focus only on the extremes of battery farming or similar. And a good number of the health studies are sticking vegans against the average diet which merely proves those who carefully watch what they eat and avoid overly processed foods (which are largely meat-based) are healthier.

This. I'd love to see a comparison of a vegan diet against an actual balanced, healthy omnivorous diet, because when it's just against 'average' you're lumping us in with all the drooling, McDonalds-twice-a-day retards.

>>7621105

Spot on anon.

Basically it comes down to this:

A tiger is my moral 'equal' despite not having the moral or intellectual capabilities I posses. Any argument claiming we give certain rights to the mentally disabled but not to, say, tigers fails to note that even the mentally disabled are smarter than they are AND that we don't give full rights to those so affected (seriously we don't give them full rights in terms of possession of dangerous substances/weapons, legal rights/duties, CC licenses etc).

And that doesn't even begin to touch on the practical issues of favouring one's own species or the utilitarian consequences of treating retarded kids like cattle. Even if you can prove we're favouring our own species unfairly there's any number of arguments for such a bias that form part of a legitimate philosophy.

Again: vegan moral/ethical theories are basically the kiddie-tier shit of shallow philosophy. Play the thought experiment of you being trapped in a cave with a human and a cow. The only solution is starvation or eating one of your two companions. Moral vegans must choose between them equally (or indeed have a 1/3rd chance to be eaten themselves). If they say 'veganism doesn't count in extreme circumstances' then clearly animals are not morally equal.

>>7621114

>This. I'd love to see a comparison of a vegan diet against an actual balanced, healthy omnivorous diet, because when it's just against 'average' you're lumping us in with all the drooling, McDonalds-twice-a-day retards.

Generally a fair comparison comes out (very) mildly in favour of veganism. We're talking a few years if you're lucky and super hardcore with your vegan shit and exersise. Even then you're granting them fancy supplements and ingredients that are massively more expensive in environmental terms particularly if the entire world wants to go vegan. Guinea pigs, rabbits, shellfish, fish, goats and chicken are kept (or eaten) by third-world communities for a reason and that reason isn't fucking tasty meat.

Africans also don't hunt monkeys for fun.

pleb

the Mt Athos diet is quite clearly the peak of foodkino and it isnt vegan

>>7621130

Or for the tl;dr version

Humans are by dint of their very ability to consider moral vegetarianism not required to adhere to it. We are not moral equals with any animal on earth as no animal on earth has a comparable moral system (or, indeed, anything we'd recognise as a moral system at all).

The only POSSIBLE exceptions are elephants and perhaps dogs though the latter is because of a shared history of co-evolution. Even in these cases we have to push the definition of moral system to extremes.

Note also vegans shut up quickly when faced with actual criticism. Much though they'd like to think otherwise they are not some sort of super-moral humans they're just smug little hipster faggots with no ability to think for themselves. When faces with arguments outside of the standard responses their copy-pastas cannot apply and they are left helpless.

>>7621088
Not that bloke, but I'm a Vietnamese college student and what is this?

File: because fuck you.jpg (54KB, 625x416px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 625x416px

>>7620271

>>7620336
Your issues probably come more from being sired by rotten old man sperm than your diet.

>>7620271
I couldn't live without ice cream or frozen yogurt

>in b4 lol fatty
mock me if you will, I am at peace

Too bad I'm a morally gray opportunist that happens to enjoy the taste of meat.

Hey guys, it's the OP. Sorry I haven't been able to respond to your comments. I'm juggling school and work right now so I don't have much time for this and honestly wasn't expecting so many passionate responses. I'll try to address everything by the end of the day. I apologize for the wait time.

>>7620652
Yes. That is called "cherry picking"

File: double nigger.jpg (343KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

343KB, 1920x1080px

>>7621386

>>7621404
>Moving the goal posts.

I complained of this right in my first post in >>7620338 and my second post in >>7620374

Pastebin is not a peer reviewed journal. Nobody has checked the literature to ensure the OP hasn't simply cherry picked studies which fit his already decided view. Nobody has reviewed his "evidence" to ensure the sources he use have not been superseded, criticised or retracted.

I can't say I'm surprised that vegans are so scientifically illiterate but it still depresses me.

>>7620271
If you need to prove that something is good t probably isn't very good

>>7621441

Yeah man I agree. Modern medicine is all bullshit!

Never go to a hospital, especially if your life is depending on it. Their treatments suck because they all had to be proven. Idiots.

>>7621088
Mods already try to enforce post quality. I've had many posts and threads deleted because they weren't 'quality' enough

vegans are ridiculous and pathetic and I have zero respect for them

>>7620271
Someone post a link to that article that says plants can form memories and stuff. There's other stuff out there that shows plants can feel pain too.

>>7620271
Because I like eating meat.

>>7620323
>>7620338
>>7620390
>>7621386
>>7621418

To everyone claiming it's cherry picking (even though it includes meta-analyses), please feel free to find studies proving them wrong. :)

>>7621418
>Moving the goalposts this hard

Double nigger

>>7620699
Humans are an invasive species in a lot of the world. Should we go hunting and killing humans? I may be efficient to protect the planet, but pretty much everyone thinks it's unethical. Vegans feel the same way about hunting. Personally, I don't mind subsistence hunters who live off of what they kill. You do what you got to do to survive. But most people don't NEED to hunt.

>>7620726
>b12 deficiency is proof that veganism is unhealthy
>elevated rates of obesity, heart disease, and cancer doesn't mean omnivore diets are unhealthy
Which is it?

>>7620370
>pretty well known

It actually isnt considering it isnt true

>getting mad at vegans and not the meat/dairy industries
I've eaten meat my whole life, but if you think the modern meat industry and the meat it sells are natural or healthy in anyway, you're objectively retarded.

>>7621130
Your idea of being trapped in a cave has absolutely nothing to do with modern day society

You are a fucking moronic nihilist fedora tipper

>>7621130
My opinion is that animals do have rights, but like the disabled, they don't have all the rights that an able bodied human has. As such, in your (in modern times pretty absurd) example, I would eat the cow before the human, because otherwise we're all going to die anyway. But you're missing the point. Veganism is a rejection of UNNECESSARY suffering, obviously in a situation like yours, suffering is unavoidable.

>>7620271
Because I'm not a fucking faggot who needs to justify his lifestyle to everyone and tell everyone that I am a fucking vegan just to get Socially Responsible And Ethical Person points.

Meat is the reward for being the dominant species of this planet.

Cows would do the same thing if it were up to them. Fuck them.

>>7621997
No youre just strong manly man trying to look manly in front of all the people that care

>>7621997
Just because most vegans are autistic faggots doesn't mean their ideology is flawed.

agriculture is a system that depends on raising plants and animals together

i spend a bit more and consume a bit less and get animal products from farming organizations that focus on sustainable agriculture and humane animal husbandy

it's better than both vegan and tortured food

>>7622023
No it doesn't. You're just some retard that read some Buzzfeed-tier article linked by Joe Rogan and thinks he knows the world

>>7622034
really? have you ever been to a farm?

>>7622039

>Vegans
>Actually visit a farm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

We're talking about the same hipsters who think cycling everywhere is a valid concept anon. They've never lived anywhere but the centre of a massive city.

>>7622022
Their ideology IS flawed, if you don't eat meat because you just don't like it, that's perfectly fine. If you don't eat meat as some form of retarded protest then you need a reality check - you're not putting a tiniest dent on meat industry.

>>7621990
>Veganism is a rejection of UNNECESSARY suffering

Then why don't vegans eat shellfish, particularly bivalves? There's no suffering there.

>>7620271
i'm not taking someone seriously who says "cow's milk is only for calves"

why are you eating nuts, beans, or seeds since they're made to grow new plants? lol!!!

>>7622053
hmm good point

plant food is most certainly NOT vegan

>>7621978
>>7621990

You've both admitted a cow has less rights than a human. Therefore discrimination against them is not speciesist. Clearly you rate them as morally inferior to humans on some level.

Why, then, deny a cow a happy life on a farm before a short and humane execution?

I am, of course, not advocating amercian style mass 'industrial' farming but you must explain to me why we can't have ethical food production and a sane diet.

Now you can claim ethical farming is unnecessary suffering but that marks you as someone who has never been on a 'proper' farm. Your average '''free range''' chicken, for example, leads a pampered lifestyle in which they do whatever they want, lay eggs and maybe are culled before old age takes them. How is that worse than never living at all? Remember that a world-wide vegan movement means all farm animals no longer have the luxury of domestication.

Do you seriously think domestication is a one-way street? In purely evolutionary terms domesticated animals (cows, chicken, sheep) are massively successful while horses have lost out due to industrial advances.

Hell you work for a pitiful wage until old age while the rich benefit. You're basically a 'free range' human who is happily ignorant of his true condition.

Finally you've dodged the harder questions.

Is it fair to keep animals as pets? What about keeping them out of 'your' land? Surely this is, to a degree, unnecessary suffering. It might be less than the 'suffering' of death and consumption but you are still enforcing it. Once you open up your house and garden to all animals maybe we can talk about unnecessary suffering.

>>7622064

Plants 'takes' land from animals and hurts a great many smaller animals during the harvesting process not to mention preventing them from eating the crops.

It's only degrees of 'harm' or 'suffering'. If we're going to start treating animals as moral equals why is it fine to force them off their lands to grow your shitty beans or build your massive apartments? This is still 'suffering' just not 'murder'.

>>7622059

Vegans have never lived with the reality of farming. Nobody who has thinks animals are even mildly comparable to humans.

Anyone who has been near shellfish or poultry will tell you they are fucking dumb and will happily love the 'farmed' life.

Again lets compare, say, dogs to humans. You'd surely give a human the right to choose to live or not if in extreme pain (lets say due to cancer).

Would you allow a dog to choose? A dog would ALWAYS choose life no matter how short and painful.

Animals are fucking dumb in comparison to humans. Treated ethically (this is key) they actually benefit from being farmed or kept as pets. In the UK, for example, there is a significant argument for eating horses to keep them treated well in later life rather than the current situation in which they are abandoned.

>>7622079
>you've both admitted a cow has less rights than a human

No, I didn't. You're just a dumb fucking retadr mincing words

>humane execution

>your average free range chicken leads a pampered lifestyle

That's a case by case example

You're a fucking moron that can't read

>>7622119
*retard

inb4 you sperg out over absolutely nothing

>>7622089
It still takes far less than animal agriculture as you are not just taking land for that but also land to feed them with the food they are provided

How fucking dense are you that you can't understand such a simple concept? Is pretending to be as oblivious as possible some form of intellectual argument?

>>7622119
So you believe a cow has the same rights as a human?

Should cows vote?

>>7621990

>Veganism is a rejection of UNNECESSARY suffering, obviously in a situation like yours, suffering is unavoidable.

So why is milking a cow or eating the eggs of a chicken 'unnecessary suffering'? By all accounts cows and chicken kept for such purposes lead a (comparatively) luxurious life and, as any farmer will tell you, don't care shit about their milk/eggs. Now you can, of course, claim eggs are 'potential chickens' or milk is 'baby cow food' but I'll easily point to abortion and ask you to explain that inconsistency.

Compare this to cows and chicken left to run free without human intervention. Unless you intend to keep sanctuaries with cows and chicken at the same population levels as now you've surely caused unnecessary suffering.

>>7622141
Saying whether or not a cow should vote which would be completely dependent on their capacity to even understand such a concept has absolutely no relativity to whether or not they should be farmed

Is there any other mind numbing retarded questions that you would like to ask?

Should I eat you since you have the intelligence of a fucking coconut?

>>7622146
>Saying whether or not a cow should vote which would be completely dependent on their capacity to even understand such a concept

So you want us to accept that:

1. Cows have the same rights as humans
2. Except they can't understand the same concepts as humans
3. So you don't think they should have the same rights as humans.

That's confusing.

>has absolutely no relativity to whether or not they should be farmed

The entire question is whether we should farm animals, or extend them the same rights as humans. You're claiming they should have the same rights, although also at the same time admitting that they shouldn't. Which is it, please?

>>7622145
Many cows and chickens are treated poorly and kept in horrible conditions to extract eggs and dairy products

>by all accounts

No, it's not by all accounts. You keep giving this absolute bullshit narrative you're some educated farmboy.

>I'll easily point to abortion

Well we're not talking about abortion and no one has brought up any abortion stances

>without human intervention

Human intervention doesn't have to mean raping cows and chickens for food

The mass slaughter and abuse of countless animals for centuries does not justify it to be a permanent thing

>>7622145
If you think being crammed into a closet is and pipe fed rubbish is luxury, I'll be happy to provide you a luxurious life.

>>7622151
I want you to accept that they should not be slaughtered

You intentionally and continuously being retarded is completely irrelevant to anything we're discussing

>or extend the same rights as humans

No, it's been almost all about moral rights.

>you're claiming they should have the same rights

Like I've said a dozen times already. They should not be slaughtered

You are a literal fucking retard. Do you have any idea how absolutely absurd your slippery slope strawman argument is?

Probably not since you're literally autistic

>>7622132

>It still takes far less than animal agriculture as you are not just taking land for that but also land to feed them with the food they are provided

If you're talking about farming cows in deserts in the USA i'd agree but that's an extreme case. Once you can easily grow AND harvest fucking beans on the side of, say, a Scottish mountain during winter feel free to come back to me on the 'land to feed' meat. And again you still have to account for the costs of shipping vegan foods around the world in massive amounts. This is not easy.

>How fucking dense are you that you can't understand such a simple concept? Is pretending to be as oblivious as possible some form of intellectual argument?

You clearly understand little-nothing about farming (common with vegans). Organic farms, for example, rely heavily on animal products as fertiliser. If we are to go for vegan food production only the investment in chemical fertilisers and pesticides will be massive.

Look into, say, crop rotation. Growing fodder is important every now and then and fodder is fucking worthless if not fed to animals. Do you expect humans to eat grass? If we're going to replace it with artificial fertilisers we'll need massive investment in the relevant industries or we'll need to accept farmland being worthless 1/4 of the time etc. Certainly 'organic' farming is heavily reliant on animals.

Comparing the truly idiotic practices of American ranches with vegan food is a bullshit argument. Compare sustainable farming with it and you'll see the inferiority of vegan-only methods. It is simply impractical.

>>7622153
>Many cows and chickens are treated poorly

But not all. Yet vegans lump the ones that are treated well and live comfortably into the same basket and then act as though they're all at the extreme end of the scale, when that's patently false.

>>7622160
>I want you to accept that they should not be slaughtered

Why? On what basis should I accept that?

>No, it's been almost all about moral rights.

So a cow should have the same moral rights as a human?

Can you define these moral rights? Should cows have the right to own property, for example?

>>7622162
>once you can easily grow and harvest fucking beans

Luckily most people unlike yourself have actually evolved to make sure things like this are not an issue. Things including not being entirely reliant upon beans

>and again you still have to account the costs for shipping vegan foods

It is no different than the costs of pollution, environmental damage, and shipping meat and dairy around the world as a result of animal agriculture. This is a stupid discussion and you are a very stupid person

>you clearly understand little nothing about farming

Obviously not since you seem to be under the impression that most forms of farming are completely cheery and luxurious.

Vegan does not mean organic, you're still entirely ignoring all the feed provided to animals like cows which includes plants

>if not fed to animals

That's not the only thing being fed to them you absolute fucking retard

Go fucking kill yourself

>>7622153

>Many cows and chickens are treated poorly and kept in horrible conditions to extract eggs and dairy products

Many vegans have poor nutrition and end up with unhealthy kids. You can't use extremes as examples faggot.

>No, it's not by all accounts. You keep giving this absolute bullshit narrative you're some educated farmboy.

Nigger chickens can function fine without their head (i.e. brains). They are not comparable to humans in any way, shape or form. Cows are also fucking stupid and frankly herbivores being inferior to omnivores is established fact in evolution.

>Well we're not talking about abortion and no one has brought up any abortion stances

That doesn't let you weasel out of it. You must give an account of abortion consistent with your vegan ideology. If you cannot you are merely basing shit on 'muh cute lambs' rather than consistent ideology.

>Human intervention doesn't have to mean raping cows and chickens for food

In what way is it rape? Correctly farmed cows and chickens lead luxurious lives and have a quick death in the prime of their life. That's better than many humans get.

>The mass slaughter and abuse of countless animals for centuries does not justify it to be a permanent thing

Slaughter of animals =/= slaugher of sapient (note not merely sentient but sapient) beings. 'Abuse' needs justification.

If push comes to shove you'll value a human life over that of a cow. Clearly you accept that sapience > sentience. Rhetorical bullshit (i.e. baseless assertions of 'abuse' or 'rape') doesn't count for shit.

>>7622163
>but not all

No. Just most, the rest are still viciously slaughtered, but it's okay. The fact we basically harvest them to begin with and rob them of any natural form of life makes this okay!!

>>7622170
>on what basis should I accept that

Because killing is wrong you absolute fucking retard

>so a cow should have the same moral rights as a human

Again, a cow should not be slaughtered

Is all that cow fat you've been slobbering in your fat fucking face clogging your brain

Why do you continue to think that strawman is an effective argument? It makes you appear more mentally deficient than you already are.

>>7622156

>If you think being crammed into a closet is and pipe fed rubbish is luxury, I'll be happy to provide you a luxurious life.

Factory farms do not provide an argument against ethical farming. Certainly they don't explain why milk, eggs, cheese etc are not acceptable.

If I were to argue nationalism was bad using only nazism, fascism and Jucheism as my examples I'd be accused of only using extreme examples. This is the same concept.

>>7622189
>Because killing is wrong

Killing other species is wrong? Okay. Do you use bleach, or anti-bacterial cleaners? Have you ever taken antibiotics?

>Again, a cow should not be slaughtered

Why not? You can't just say "It's wrong" without a justification. Or can you?

I say it's okay. I'll say it without justification. I guess I win.

>>7622189
>Because killing is wrong
So you're saying mass murderers should be instead pampered, fed, clothed and kept warm for a lifetime?

Animals kill eachother to eat, are they evil?

No one here made the world like it is, we just play by its rules.

>>7622186
Humans are very sophisticated (so far as we can tell) animals with complex habits who exist in a universe. All things that take place in said universe are therefore 'natural'. Just because you perceive deliberation and choice regarding the consumption of animal products does not make anything about it 'unnatural'. A chicken or a cow on a farm is as natural as an asteroid whirling through space.

You dumb kids

>>7622184
>many vegans have poor noturtion and end up with unhealthy kids

The thing is here, that's actually not true, it is pretty clear many cows and chickens are treated horribly. It's not using an extreme as an example when it's the fucking norm you retard

This is coming from the same person siding with someone equivocating not slaughtering something as giving them voting rights

>durrr chickens and cows are dumb

So are you. So go slaughter yourself

>that doesn't let you weasel out of it

Yes it does. You brought it up as an "inconsistency" when no one mentioned it and began bringing up points no one was talking about

>in what way is it rape

What do you mean in what way? Are you even remotely aware of any farming practices?

>correctly

Too bad this is not a norm

>have a quick death in the prime of their life

How humane

>abuse needs justification

There is no justificaiton

>if push comes to shove

Well there is no push comes to shove, so that issue is completely irrelevant and has noting to do with farming practices

Your stupid rhetorical bullshit is completely irrelevant

>>7622200
Go ahead and compare bacteria to a chimp.

>Why not

Because killing sentient life is wrong? Do you literally have an anti-social disorder?

If I need to answer this question for you then there is seriously something wrong with you.

>>7622208
We are completely capable of not eating meat

>>7622212
>The thing is here, that's actually not true
I am baffled at how much reliable evidence you have brought up to refute this point. Truly, I am stumped.

>>7622210
Yes it's natural in that it's an action of life

It's unnatural in a moral context

>>7622215
>Go ahead and compare bacteria to a chimp.

I'm just trying to work out where the line is here.

>Because killing sentient life is wrong?

So you do eat bivalves and nematodes, then? A nice pan seared scallop is just fine to eat, as a vegan?

>>7622221
Great, we are also completely capable of living in the wilds instead of building concrete behemots. We're completely capable of shitting in holes and living in shithuts instead of conquering the stars.

I reserve my right to rape the shit out of a cow for its tasty, tasty fat and muscles. It should have evolved opposable thumbs to stop me from doing that.

>>7622221
we're also capable of lots of other things
doesn't mean we should

>>7622227
>morals
completely subjective
you're not better than anyone for not eating meat
volunteer at a shelter you fucking hypocrite

>>7622237
>volunteer at a shelter you fucking hypocrite
This.
If you want to actually allievate some animal suffering, volunteer for an animal shelter and give the animals there some love, instead of thinking you not buying that steak at a mall will somehow prevent other guy from doing it.

>>7622237
>morality is subjective
Nobody except 11 year old retards actually believes this. I have no idea what this thread is about, and I don't care. Your post just caught my eye.

>>7622237
>completely subjective

Sure. But I think you can agree killing is wrong if you're mentally sound

>>7622230
So you're just mentally damaged

>>7622231
My point exactly

>>7622230
You could argue with efficiency. Growing meat consumes way more resources than for example vegetables. As a matter of fact it is impossible for every living human to eat as much meat as an US citizen right now could.

Artificial meat will probably solve this. It cannot come fast enough even if only to stop these shitposting threads like this one.

File: tbh mayo.png (168KB, 403x430px) Image search: [Google]

168KB, 403x430px

>>7622244
Executing murderers is objectively right thing to do.

Torturing torturers is objectively right thing to do.

A man who steals bread because his family is starving should be put into prison for theft, objectively.

>>7622245
>killing is wrong
Said the gazella as a lion is chewing on its throat.

>>7622245
>killing

Well you need to define "killing" here. As I asked in >>7622200, do you use bleach or antibiotics? Is it okay to kill certain things, like bacteria, but not others? Draw us a moral line here.

>>7622244
it is absolutely subjective, you dense fuck
it's immoral to certain christians to eat shellfish

>>7622245
m8 it's not like people go out and murder animals for the fun of it (except for hunters but that's another issue entirely)

>>7622251
except it completely fucks over the migrant workers and places that are forced to grow shitty stupid quinoa

>>7622226
Your right, your evidence has completely stumped me

>>7622228
You know the line. You just somehow think being completely oblivious as possible somehow makes your argument appear stronger

Bivalves have preganglia, they are also animals, there is no point in bothering to eat animals, especially something that is possibly sentient life

>>7622178

>Luckily most people unlike yourself have actually evolved to make sure things like this are not an issue. Things including not being entirely reliant upon beans

Come back to me once you can grow vegan food on the side of a mountain which is as often as not covered in snow. Even when it isn't the shitty plants are useful only for feeding sheep.

While we're at it lets look at places like St Kilda. I'm sure they could replace their sheep and bird-eggs with fucking legumes on a rock in the middle of nowhere.

You cannot compare the extremes of inefficient US farming to the world as a whole.

>It is no different than the costs of pollution, environmental damage, and shipping meat and dairy around the world as a result of animal agriculture. This is a stupid discussion and you are a very stupid person

You can farm some form of animal almost anywhere. You cannot grow sufficient vegan food in most of the world. You clearly do not understand things like crop rotation or fertilisation either. Baseless claims of me being a 'stupid person' have no relevance.

>Obviously not since you seem to be under the impression that most forms of farming are completely cheery and luxurious.

Never said that.

>Vegan does not mean organic, you're still entirely ignoring all the feed provided to animals like cows which includes plants

Cows are the least efficient animals so using them as an example is unfair. Again sheep or goats can be reared on land that is otherwise unusable. Chicken can live off fucking nothing. Pigs can be fed on leftovers alone. Rabbits, guinea pigs etc cam be bread in tiny areas.

You cannot extend inefficient American farming practices to the entire world.

And again non-organic farming requires mass production of fertilisers. Look up crop rotation.

>That's not the only thing being fed to them you absolute fucking retard

Again cherry-picking shitty american practices of mass producing beef for a shitty diet.

>>7622263
>You know the line
No I don't, we're apparently retarded and you're so much smarter and morally superior vegan so please explain.

>>7622227
'Unnatural' does not really make sense in the context of morality.

>>7622244
>>7622245
I would argue that killing has no positive or negative value and is just something that can happen. As sentient beings in a community we have applied a negative value to killing because we want to live. That doesn't mean it's inherently negative. You can arbitrarily feel good or bad about anything in the universe. Hence that one native tribe in Papua New Guinea that forces little boys to suck off their elders. As a collective we find that abhorrent in the western world but the universe doesn't have much to say about it.

>>7622258
Evolutionary biologists would disagree with you
>christianity has a belief I find silly therefore murder is acceptable
This is what I mean by 11 year old retards

>>7622258
>its not like people go out and murder animals for fun

So I guess it's still alright to kill animals because we completely detach ourselves from the moral side of it, for the sake of our own selfishness

Makes sense

For a dumbass

>>7622257
I answered. You also answered back or that might've been someone else

>>7622263
>you know the line
no, we don't, actually. i personally draw the line at taking human life and killing animals for a reason that isn't food
where do you draw it

>>7622244
>morality is not subjective
It was totally normal to stone women who were found to be guilty of cheating a few hundred years ago. That was considered moral. If morality is static, then it would still be acceptable today (ignoring crazy Muslims in the Middle East).

>>7622186

>No. Just most, the rest are still viciously slaughtered, but it's okay.

Rhetorical bullshit unless you can prove all farming of animals is wrong.

>he fact we basically harvest them to begin with and rob them of any natural form of life makes this okay!!

What is 'natural' has no bearing on what is 'right'. Even IF it did you can see very basic herd management practices among species other than humans.

>>7622271
where did i say or even imply murder was acceptable?

morality IS subjective. there's things that everyone agrees on, like murder and rape and whatnot, but even then, some people don't give a shit or believe it

morality IS subjective whether you like it or not; to think that means 'LOL I GUESS ANYTHING GOES' makes you more of the 11 year old than i

>>7622263
>You know the line

Well apparently the line I know (it's okay to kill & eat other animals, as long as they're well treated and cared for) isn't the line you know (it isn't).

So if I "know the line" what are you arguing with me about? It's okay to eat meat. You just told me it is.

>Bivalves have preganglia

Which in absolutely no way, at all, makes them the slightest bit sentient. So like I said, is it okay to chow down in a nice pan-seared scallop? Maybe with a bit of black pudding, if the blood was given willingly and with full consent?

I mean if you're going to argue from a point of moral superiority it's usually sensible to know where your high ground it. You seem to be stood in a watery ditch and shouting at everyone else about how damp your ankles are.

>>7622278
You're confusing morality with community values breh. An evil act doesn't become more or less wrong over time.

File: ON PURPOSE.gif (2MB, 768x432px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 768x432px

I'll just invalidate the vegans' retarded viewpoint with an old saying:
Might makes right.

>Be Vegan
>Lack animal protein and fatty acids
>Become malnourished
>Die

>>7622189

>Because killing is wrong you absolute fucking retard

Why? Even if you can prove killing another sapient being is inherently wrong (good luck) that hardly applies to species that are merely sentient.

>Again, a cow should not be slaughtered

A cow shouldn't be killed because a cow shouldn't be killed? Nice argument.

>Why do you continue to think that strawman is an effective argument? It makes you appear more mentally deficient than you already are.

It is not a strawman. You must explain why we extend certain rights to cows (not being eaten) but not other rights (housing, welfare, voting). Stopping it at eating them is arbitrary.

Fucking corpse eaters, man!

>>7622281
>morality is objectively subjective
why can't I hold all these wews, lad

>>7622178
basically all i got from this was 'i don't care about migrant workers or developing countries that are forced either into certain diets based on resources around them, or forced to grow vegan shit which they can't use themselves and end up dying from hunger and malnutrition'

>>7622289
Community values determine a culture's morals nigga. Plato pointed this out ages ago.

>>7620271
>Evidence Supporting A Vegan Diet [...]
You didn't even explain your sources, anon. F double minus. See me after class.

>>7622256
We're not lions.

>>7622267
Come back to me when you can live on animals solely

This is a stupid argument. We as a society today are completely capable of living a vegan lifestyle

Your dissatisfaction with these areas go far beyond just living a vegan lifestyle and have vast economic implications

>you cannot grow sufficient vegan food in the most of the world

Completely false and irrelevant to our modern day situation

>never said that

You basically did

>cows are the least efficient animals

And they still get fed a lot of crops

>you cannot extend farming practices to the entire world

You can extend veganism though. You seem to be under the impression every single place sticks to their single place and would only eat fucking beans

No hunter or gatherer ever stayed in one place for their food, that's stupid, and no one does that today

>cherry picking

Cherrypicking a prominent percentage? Okay

>>7622298
it's unbelievable how dense you are
objectively subjective = this is subjective and it's proven by fact
subjectively subjective = it's my opinion this is subjective

holy shit i hate you

File: Stock%20Index%20Up[1].png (20KB, 256x256px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 256x256px

>>7622292
>>7622293

>>7622279
Killing animals is wrong. That's pretty simple enough. Animal agriculture is environmentally harmful.

You can't disprove the claim either. Your bullshit is just as rhetorical

You're focusing on the semantics of natural, rhetorical bullshit

>>7622305
>We're not lions.
then why do you rank us as equals
animals are not human beings

>>7622272
>I answered

No, you entirely failed to answer.

>>7622310
>Killing animals is wrong
for no reason or sport? yeah
for food? not at all, no

>>7622310
>Animal agriculture is environmentally harmful.
you keep bringing this up but ignoring the issues of 3rd worlders and migrant workers being affected harmfully
why is that

>>7622284
What makes killing them okay? Because you're a fat fuck with no self-control?

>you just told me it is

No I didn't. Why do you continue to believe verifying the fact you're on the spectrum makes you right in any way? To any sane human being you look like an absolute fucking retard

This is not an argument. This is you reverting to the logical standards of a 10 year old

>>7622272
>So I guess it's still alright to kill animals because we completely detach ourselves from the moral side of it, for the sake of our own selfishness
uh, yeah, i need to eat. there ain't nothing selfish about that famalam
all you're screaming is 'KILLING ANIMALS IS WRONG' with nothing to back it up besides 'MUH FEELINGS THO'

>>7622284
>which in absolutely no way at all makes them the slightest bit sentient

Therein lies the issue, they possibly could

>>7622301
No, community values determine a culture's beliefs about morals. Whether an act is moral or not is independent of what the community happens to believe.

>>7622320
>What makes killing them okay?
WHAT MAKES KILLING THEM *NOT* OKAY BESIDES IT HURTING YOUR FEELINGS

>>7622212

>The thing is here, that's actually not true, it is pretty clear many cows and chickens are treated horribly. It's not using an extreme as an example when it's the fucking norm you retard

It's the norm nowadays in certain countries perhaps. Still gives you no basis for a moral judgement. If we're going to go down the route of moral consequences you're also fucked as vegan (utilitarianism benefits farming believe me).

>This is coming from the same person siding with someone equivocating not slaughtering something as giving them voting rights

Explain why you cut the rights of cows off at not being eaten without being arbitrary.

>So are you. So go slaughter yourself

Sapient =/= sentient. Feel free to prove me wrong on that point.

>Yes it does. You brought it up as an "inconsistency" when no one mentioned it and began bringing up points no one was talking about

You must explain the arbitrary judgement not me.

>What do you mean in what way? Are you even remotely aware of any farming practices?

Are you? Rape hardly applies to non-sapient species either. Unless you wish to start trying male cats or dogs for 'rape' in court you've got no basis for a judgement. And again why give them the right not to be killed but not the right not to be 'raped'?

>How humane

A free-range chicken leads a great life in comparison to an unfarmed one.

>There is no justificaiton

Pre-supposes your conclusion faggot. 'There is no justification because there is no justification' is not an argument.

>>7622308
Morals are objectively objective. You're wrong about this, objectively, just accept it.

>>7622320
>To any sane human being you look like an absolute fucking retard
holy shit talk about projecting
you're the one kicking and screaming about 'immorality' like some bible thumper crying about gays

>>7622305
Look sunshine, we don't owe animals shit.

All those animal rights we made up: they're there because some people feel uncomfortable with treating animals like shit, so we accepted that we raise and butcher animals painlessly after a relatively good life.

We don't owe animals shit. We were just nice enough to give them painless deaths.

>>7622294
What proof do you need? It's called being a human being with a healthy mental state?

>nice argument

Because it is sentient life

Should you be killed simply because I want to eat you and I'm a fat fuck with zero control?

>it is not a strawman

Yes it is, you are entirely misinterpreting the argument, and bringing up completely irrelevant points. Whether or not cows should be killed has nothing to do with whether or not they should vote. You literally have to be 3 years old to not understand this concept

You are a fucking retard

>>7622320
>What makes killing them okay?

Because humans are capable of digesting the fats and proteins and their meat happens to be calorie dense. Humans also tend to like the taste. Finally, as other animals are not the same species, there's no moral justification not too: animals higher up the food chain kill and consume animals lower on the food chain regularly, and humans are at the top of the food chain.

>No I didn't

You told me I "know where the line is". Well, I know it's okay to kill and eat animals. So apparently, according to you (I "know where the line is", remember) it's just fine. Thanks for the validation.

>>7622320
>What makes killing them okay?
Because I say so and I will do so if I'm hungry.
Feel free to stop me, skeleton.

>>7622335
>It's called being a human being with a healthy mental state?
says the one desperately trying to make everyone that eats meat (aka over 2/3rds of the planet) is a fucking moral-less asshole who would rape their neighbour

you have no chill and it's really annoying how you have no self awareness and act like you're calm or have any right to take the moral high ground

>>7622337
Corpse eater

>>7622316
I did answer. You're just a blind fucking retard that can't read

>>7622317
>for food, not at all

Why? We are entirely capable of not slaughtering them needlessly, we are entirely capable of not destroying our environment

>ignoring the issues of 3rd worlders and migrant workers being affected harmfully

That's an issue that has nothing to do with veganism, that's an issue of human treatment

>>7622322
No you don't, fatso

>nothing to back it other than morals and environmental protection

How silly, right?

>>7622341
That's right, I eat cut up fucking corpses, that's metal as fuck.

>>7622215

>Go ahead and compare bacteria to a chimp.

Compare a chimp to a chicken.

>Because killing sentient life is wrong? Do you literally have an anti-social disorder?

Sentient =/= sapient for a start. And from where do you pull such an absolute rule out of your ass?

Is it wrong to kill a rabid dog to save a child? That is ending a sentient life to save a sapient one. Feel free to extend that to killing a rabid dog to save another dog etc etc. Hell is it wrong to kill a human in self-defence? That's killing a sapient never mind a sentient.

I seriously doubt you can prove ending a sapient life is inherently wrong.

>>7620271
>So why aren't you vegan?
Honestly, it's because I don't really know how to be. Where can I find good vegan recipes that aren't too complicated and time consuming?

>why not

the small proportion of articles that are peer reviewed here speak of the benefit of eating healthy vegan foods

they do not speak of excluding meat

this is essentially a list of reasons why one should eat healthy

which i agree with, including meat

>>7622341
migrant worker-hater
3rd world oppressor

we gonna keep stating facts? here's some speculation at least: you're voting for trump because you apparently fucking hate mexicans

>>7622344
>That's an issue that has nothing to do with veganism
so you refuse to accept the fact that your diet affects other people, but insist that eating meat is oppressive and harmful to the world? fuck off mate

>>7622344
>morals
MUH
FEELINGS
I also think CO2 that China shits out from its unregulated industry is also more destructive to enviroment than fucking farts caused by meat.

>>7622344
>I did answer.

I asked "Do you use bleach, or anti-bacterial cleaners? Have you ever taken antibiotics?"

Your reply was "Go ahead and compare bacteria to a chimp."

I don't see any answer to the two original questions. Those are yes or no questions: Do you use bleach, or anti-bacterial cleaners? Have you ever taken antibiotics?

>>7622344
>morals
MUH FEELINGS
>and environmental protection
says the one who refuses to acknowledge the consequences of the vegan craze on 3rd world countries

you're a hypocrite, nothing more

>>7622350
Illegal border hoppers =/= legal mexicans senpai.

>>7622328
>no basis for a moral judgment

It's killing you fucking absolute retard

>you're also fucked

Sure.

>without being arbitrary

That's not arbitrary, you're just a fucking braindead retard who should kill himself since his sentience doesn't extend outside being a psychopathic obese retard

>rape hardly applies to non-sapient species either

Seek help or better yet go fucking kill yourself

>a free range chicken leads a great life

Subjective

You have no justification, you have no argument. Just the fact you're a dumb obese sack of shit

>>7622357
all mexicans = likely to migrant workers
the hell's your point

>>7622358
it's not killing people so what's the issue

File: YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE THIS SHIT UP.png (522KB, 720x279px) Image search: [Google]

522KB, 720x279px

>>7622358
>who should kill himself
But anon, that's killing.

And killing is wrong.

>>7622245

Killing a sapient =/= killing a sentient.

Killing a sentient =/= killing a fucking plant (though you'll need to explain the line here for veganism to be fine).

>>7622333
And you're a fat fuck like a bible thumper screaming about how you're in the right to such cruel nature

>>7622358
>i care about animals
>BUT NOT PEOPLE. FUCK PEOPLE, THEY'RE FAT AND DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES
we otherkin now?

>>7622358
>It's killing you fucking absolute retard
>who should kill himself since his sentience doesn't extend outside being a psychopathic obese retard

So just to be clear: killing sentient life is bad *unless* its sentience is limited to being "a psychopathic obese retard", and then it's okay?

I notice we've reached the "vegan gets angry and calls people psychopaths because they don't agree with them" stage of the "argument".

>>7622340
Trying to stop slaughter and environmental degradation which also affects humans is moral-less?

I have no chill for a fucking literal retard such as yourself

File: CRUEL NATURE.jpg (131KB, 950x633px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 950x633px

>>7622367
>cruel nature

>>7622251

>You could argue with efficiency. Growing meat consumes way more resources than for example vegetables. As a matter of fact it is impossible for every living human to eat as much meat as an US citizen right now could.

So again we are extending the excesses of American production to the entire world. Cherry-picking at its finest.

We cannot take the underfed vegan child and extend that over all vegan diets, why do the same for poor farming practices in the USA?

>Artificial meat will probably solve this. It cannot come fast enough even if only to stop these shitposting threads like this one.

Artificial meat is hardly free and has no bearing on moral arguments. Ethically farmed animals will still live superior lives to unfarmed ones.

File: dogg.png (7KB, 580x517px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 580x517px

>>7622367
oh man, i'm fat. nice comeback from a fucking skeleton. EVERYONE'S fat when you're that malnourished, mate

>i'm in the right to such cruel nature
yeah, i am. they're not human beings.

>>7622373
and AGAIN you ignore the fact that the vegan craze affects 3rd world countries just as badly, if not worse

fuck off, Sparklerain Thunderpaw, we know you hate filthy hyoomans

>>7622346
>go compare a chimp to a chicken

Both sentient

Your retarded schpiel about this is absolutely irrelevant

Your scenarios have absolutely nothing to do with veganism. It's just you being a fedora tipping retard

Of course self-defense is fine you fucking retard. Jesus christ how fucking oblivious are you?

File: CRUEL NATURE.png (335KB, 450x300px) Image search: [Google]

335KB, 450x300px

>>7622381
>Of course self-defense is fine you fucking retard.
No, killing is wrong.

Just because Jamal breaks into your house with intent to kill you doesn't mean you should kill him for that.

>>7622350
The diet is not the issue, how fucking dumb are you?

That's a governmental issue

>>7622352
Oh that's right, I forgot that I'm 4chan with socially and mentally stunted children

>everyone in the world can and should go vegan!
what an american-centric viewpoint, holy shit

>>7622386
you're excusing yourself and pretending you and your diet play no part in their suffering, which is far from the truth

>>7622355
Bacteria is not the same form of life as a chimp or a cow

This is easy to understand for someone that isn't a complete fucking retard like you

>>7622356
Saying "muh feelings" just shows you're a psychopathic friendless shithead

>of the vegan craze on 3rd world countries

That's a governmental issue you fucking braindead retard. Even then you are harming far less lives through that than carnist practices

You're a fucking clueless retard

File: frustrated-man.jpg (264KB, 847x567px) Image search: [Google]

264KB, 847x567px

>>7620271
biochemist here, been owlseying since the late 70's

Most people in the field realize nutritional science is essentially just getting paid to arrive at a conclusion X lobby or Y agra corp

It's been memescience since the late 80's

humans are OK at processing meat, and veg that isn't grain or legumes/certain seeds

Humans also much more readily absorb vital nutrients from meat

If you haven't researched it for yourself and can show me a peer reviewed study that didn't cherry pick populations etc then you have no idea what you're talking about

JSTOR access and an understanding of biochem and stat helps

but we're talking vegans here folks

File: CRUEL NATURE.jpg (23KB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 400x300px

>>7622386
>Oh that's right, I forgot that I'm 4chan with socially and mentally stunted children
I'm sorry to disappoint you, Morally Superior Rape-Free Diet Greater Being.
We only hope to retain your patronage to our unworthy board.

>>7622388
Vegetales are cheaper you dumbass, people in third world countries could just eat veggies easily

>>7622375
I didn't realize humans were hyenas

>>7622394
>Saying "muh feelings" just shows you're a psychopathic friendless shithead
i'm engaged to the man i love and you have no girlfriend, step the fuck back, skeleton

>Even then you are harming far less lives through that than carnist practices

objective not true, but you really just need to stop pretending about the welfare of other human beings

>>7622394
>Bacteria is not the same form of life as a chimp or a cow
>This is easy to understand for someone that isn't a complete fucking retard like you

So *draw the line* for us. You use the term "sentient" but then claim that it's wrong to eat bivalves such as scallops, which are clearly in absolutely no way sentient. Where is the line? Why is it placed where it is?

>>7622394
>Bacteria is not the same form of life as a chimp or a cow
So why is killing bacteria okay, but not cows?
Cows want to breed, bacteria want to breed.
Cows want to live, bacteria want to live.
You gain something from killing a cow, you gain something from killing bacteria.
But you insist killing cows is bad, why?

>>7622380
I have literally addressed the issue multiple times

You're still just a braindead retard that can't think straight because you're a fat fuck with fat clogging your mind

>>7622384
Oh, so now we're back to the state where you just be as oblivious as possible and utilize strawman

Go fucking kill yourself

>>7622398
>Vegetales are cheaper you dumbass, people in third world countries could just eat veggies easily
t. Billybob Smith from Texas
do some research about how other countries eat and how food production works you incredibly selfish prick
some people have literally nothing to eat and you're whining about 'animal lives matterrrrrr'
people > animals; too bad

File: asuka is not amused.png (2MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1080px

>>7620329
Why the fuck did you come to 4chan then? Get the fuck out to reddit double nigger.

>>7622396
physical chem phd here, this basically

>>7622402
>objective not true

Evidently not

>>7622404
>which are clearly in absolutely no way sentient

This is not proven

You know the line but continue to be as retarded as possible, this does not make your argument look smarter. It makes you look dumber

File: CRUEL NATURE.jpg (209KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 1280x720px

>>7622400
Humans are animals. We're the planet's apex predators, there's nothing unnatural about us, we were born on this planet, other animals had exact same amount of time to beat us.

>>7622407
You're a fucking idiot

File: the least jestful.png (937KB, 1416x9000px) Image search: [Google]

937KB, 1416x9000px

>>7622415
are you pic related??

>>7622407
Please compare a cow and bacteria and tell me that they are exactly the same

That's right, your failures of parents obviously didn't raise you right so you have a twisted moral compass

>>7622408
>Go fucking kill yourself
But that would be killing, and killing is wrong.
>>7622419
I am really sorry about that, not everyone is born a 200 IQ genius like you.

>>7622408
>I have literally addressed the issue multiple times
no you haven't, you've deflected and gone 'not my problem'

>FATTTTTTTTTT
again, everyone is fat when you're a fucking skeleton. eat a ham sandwich nigger

>strawman
not him but WEW LAD
HAVE SOME SELF AWARENESS :')

ps, address >>7622396 with your literal memescience please

>>7622417
do some fucking research if you claim to care so much about the people who grow your precious quinoa

they are objectively worse off in the majority of cases

>>7622421
yeah actually.
shit why did people cap that

Because I enjoy eating things that Vegans don't.

Shaming it only makes you look like a dick.

>>7622422
>Please compare a cow and bacteria and tell me that they are exactly the same
I just did.
>so you have a twisted moral compass
I guess.
That doesn't make my argument any less valid.
Sometimes in the real world, you'll run into people who have clashing worldviews.

>>7622418
We have digestive systems that are synonymous with a herbivore

We are entirely and sufficiently capable of being vegan

What's so hard to understand? Am I triggering you for revealing you as the fat shithead you are?

>>7622417
>This is not proven

Sorry, can I just check: you want proof that bivalves *are sentient*? Yet you offer no proof of your own that they are? And you realise that declaring bivalves sentient would place plants worryingly close to an incredibly thin line of what is and isn't "sentient"?

Once again, I am both not surprised and astonished at the complete and utter lack of scientific literacy amongst vegans.

>>7622427
Yes I have.

Bacteria is not a chimp

Bacteria is not life in the same way a chimp or cow is

THINKING IS HARD DURRRRRRRRRRR

Please fucking end your obviously worthless life. You have the mental capacity of a fucking blade of grass

>>7622422
>kill yourself
>you're fat
>fuck you retard
>your parents didn't raise you right
vegans, everyone
such better, nicer people for not eating meat

>>7622432
>We are entirely and sufficiently capable of being vegan
again, so selfish. some people would literally die by doing so

>>7622433
>virgin
nice projecting. i can show you my engagement ring if you'd like, you lonely, bitter, girlfriendless fuck

>>7622432
>We are entirely and sufficiently capable of being vegan
And why should we?
I enjoy the taste of meat, if you feel strongly about it, again, try to stop me.

>>7622431
>I just did

No you didn't. You simply said they were the same and ignored basic biological and observable differences

>>7622437
>can't even keep track of the different people he's talking to
wew lad
i'm not him
you haven't addressed the issue of 3rd world countries or american migrant workers, and have only gone 'NOT MY PROBLEM, LOL GVMNT'

>>7622439
Because it's wrong

>>7622445
>observable differences
A platypus looks like a mammal, yet it lays eggs.
And biologically, all life is the same, it strives to breed and spread.

>>7622453
you say it's wrong
literal billions of other people say otherwise

>>7622453
>Because it's wrong
Then stop me, do you think bolshevik revolution could have happened if someone cried about it loud enough on newspapers?

Nothing in the world is done without physical force.

>>7622446
I'm a female working and going to school full time and am not a virgin.

>>7622446
Yeah What's wrong with 3rd world countries?

PLEASE ADDRESS PHD ANON

>>7622396
>>7622396
>>7622396
>>7622396
>>7622396

PLEASE ADDRESS PHD ANON

>>7622305

>Come back to me when you can live on animals solely

>Strawman

Nobody claimed that.

>This is a stupid argument. We as a society today are completely capable of living a vegan lifestyle

Maybe in the USA if you ship in food and mass produce certain supplements. Believe it or not USA =/= the world.

>Your dissatisfaction with these areas go far beyond just living a vegan lifestyle and have vast economic implications

Non vegan-friendly climates are going to need a lot of cash to pay for importing food anon. We're taking butter, eggs and milk out of the equation not to mention leather, wool and suchlike.

>Completely false

Grow vegan food in the Scottish highlands. You can't even run tractors up the smaller hills.

>and irrelevant to our modern day situation

Only if we inefficiently ship food around the world.

>You basically did

Nope. Strawman pure and simple.

>And they still get fed a lot of crops

Still cherry-picking. Cows farmed in fucking desert are an extreme example and again USA =/= the world.

>You can extend veganism though. You seem to be under the impression every single place sticks to their single place and would only eat fucking beans

Shipping food around the world costs and properly farmed meat is efficient. Pigs eat useless left-overs, sheep and chicken turn useless farmland or crop-rotation fodder into food etc.

And again a varied vegan diet is inefficient. Just because you can buy shit from dickfuckistan in your posh little urban market doesn't mean shit all.

>No hunter or gatherer ever stayed in one place for their food, that's stupid, and no one does that today

Moving a few miles within the same climate isn't comparable to shipping food halfway across the world. And hunter-gathering was abandoned for a reason. Feel free to return to that lifestyle but good luck shitposting on 4chan.

>Cherrypicking

You're talking about a pie in the sky ideal vegan world. Why can we not discuss a 'perfect' omnivore situation?

File: Saitama ok.jpg (42KB, 630x630px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 630x630px

>>7622459

>>7622421
haha this aspie BTFOs the most common study that vegans try to use to say meat is bad for you in that thread

>>7622415
biochem masters here again. I appreciate what u do phys chem man, I don't have the stomach for it. you're doin gods work tho

memescience and social "science" is ruining the 1st world. cant get mad at vegans though, they're a symptom not a cause

>>7622465
>And hunter-gathering was abandoned for a reason
Yes it was abandoned in favor of animal husbandry and agriculture, permament settlements and trade. What is your point exactly?

>>7622379
The issue is not US centric. It applies to every developed country. It is impossible for every human to consume as much meat as those countries do. It only works now because the others just don't or can't.

The moral argument with artificial meat goes as follows:
If you can eat meat without killing then there is no reason to kill.

File: grad.jpg (56KB, 638x960px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 638x960px

>>7622461
with the agriculture that goes in on many 3rd world countries that produce crops for 1st world countries, they're left fairly poor but still able to sustain themselves with what they've grown and also generally make ~enough money

being forced to shift into growing shit like quinoa, the people growing eat gain no real nutrition from what they're growing and generally receive even less than what they were making before

thus, they end up starving

but vegans don't care, it's not their problem, it's the government's :')

>>7622438
>again, so selfish. some people would literally die by doing so

lol. "Some people in third world countries would die if they tried going vegan so you're selfish for suggesting people who aren't in those situations stop torturing animals for no reason at fucking all."
And I'm a female, working and going to school full time, and am not a virgin.

>>7622310

>Killing animals is wrong. That's pretty simple enough. Animal agriculture is environmentally harmful.

Killing animals is wrong because killing animals is wrong. It's the circular vegan game! Hell even killing humans (sapients) being inherently wrong cannot be proven but good luck with mere sentients.

>You can't disprove the claim either. Your bullshit is just as rhetorical

Shall we bring up the human and cow in the cave again? Regardless the burden of proof is on the vegans here.

>You're focusing on the semantics of natural, rhetorical bullshit

Empty words without an actual argument. Natural = good was brought up by the vegan.

>>7622468
thanks. you read fat of the land? its what got me looking into the nutritional science field. I'm sure you're more familiar with the shit methodology standards they keep, being in biochem and all. I really wish things like JSTOR were publicly available so there would be no reason for threads like this. if u try though they'll drive you to suicide for inventing reddit lol

>>7622477
>And I'm a female
It shows, you choose to ignore points because MUH FEELINGS instead of coldly present your arguments and refute countearguments.

>>7622473
>If you can eat meat without killing then there is no reason to kill.
well sure but artificial meat is a long way's off
and then there's fishing

>>7622477
they would
>I'M A GRILL
well yeah i kind of figured that out by the crazy bitch sjw vegan nonsense

and if you're a girl then you'd give a shit about other woman with iron deficiencies but apparently you don't care about that either so long as you get your precious kale and quinoa salad

but you're certainly a virgin, most people wouldn't be able to stand your screaming at them about how awful they are

>>7622483
Sexist

>>7622489
You bet, now doubletime it to the kitchen and make me a sandwich.

>>7622483
No I actually literally don't have time. Finals are coming up, I just moved out of an abusive situation, I'm currently working RIGHT NOW and shouldn't even be responding at all. It would take a year to address all the bullshit in this thread. And seriously, I haven't even read it because I don't want to have an aneurysm trying to wrap my head around why we don't currently have a eugenics program with all the retards on the internet.

>>7622479
yeah, and I can't believe you're the one defending muh owlsey. luv u

These retards are all arguing on moral predicates too. its just goofy

>killing animals is wrong
>no its not
>yes it is
>all meat is bad for you (false evidence cited)
>no its not (no evidence cited)

ad nauseum

>>7622494
>No I actually literally don't have time.
You spent fucking hours in this thread, time is the one thing you have plenty. Good luck with your women's studies/Liberal Arts.

>>7622489
homophobe

>>7622496
haha now its devolved into

>uhm excuse me UR sexist (with no evidence)
>baits out intentionally sexist response
>cycle continues

>>7622503
If you look closely, you can see a tattoo with numbers on their forearm, that means they're not actually vegans, but auschwitz prisoners.
It's hard to tell the difference even to a keen eye.

>>7622335

>What proof do you need? It's called being a human being with a healthy mental state?

Mentally healthy human beings do not value sentient life. Even if they did that is no moral argument.

>Because it is sentient life
>Should you be killed simply because I want to eat you and I'm a fat fuck with zero control?

Sentient =/= sapient. And again explain to me where the line is drawn for sentient. Insects?

>Yes it is, you are entirely misinterpreting the argument, and bringing up completely irrelevant points. Whether or not cows should be killed has nothing to do with whether or not they should vote.

Why arbitrarily grant sentient creatures one moral right but not another? You must explain why we stop at the right to life not the right to welfare, voting etc.

>You literally have to be 3 years old to not understand this concept
>You are a fucking retard

Baseless ad hominem and rhetoric do not an argument make.

>>7622499
Um I've actually spent about ten minutes total in this thread, including the time spent reading it... I do plan on responding to the arguments that might actually be worth responding to though. Some people might actually have legitimate concerns I can help clarify for them.

And with that, goodbye. See ya later.

>>7622494
so you're ableist AND homophobic. nice one you rude cunt. if you're gonna throw that shit around then you don't get to bitch about sexism.

if all that shit is going on and you're SOOOOOO busy, get the fuck off the internet already

everyone thinks you're a rude delusional cunt and wants you to leave

File: Ackchually.png (35KB, 700x700px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 700x700px

>>7622496
>moral predicates
I argued on might makes right principle.

>>7622341

Unless you can prove eating 'corpses' of merely sentient creatures is wrong that point has no value.

You fucking carrot eater.

>>7622511
bye cunt don't let the door hit your prejudiced, homophobic, ableist, oppressive ass on the way out

unfuckingbelievable how you legitimately cried 'sexism' while being such a vapid cunt. unbelievable

>>7620362
So is a vegan diet.
Otherwise why aren't very many athletes let alone successful.ones follow this eating disorder? Oh right, because it hinders muscle gain and is fucking horrible for you.

>>7622496

thanks. I don't expect thanks for it but it just sucks some days, even tho its a hobby more than anything

mad respect for finding your own answers instead of regurgitating memes from the soft sciences

if anyone has health/drug questions feel free to ask me while you're here, dont expect better than an abstract unless you give me your uni email so I can send you JSTOR shit or pdf rips im making of older literature

>>7622514
>different moral philosophy isn't a moral predicate
nigga u know that aint science

>>7622344

>Why? We are entirely capable of not slaughtering them needlessly

Debatable. Widespread adoption of a vegan diet has costs. Doubly so for countries that lack suitable land to produce such food. Again, cows aside, animals turn shit land and leftover resources into effective food.

>we are entirely capable of not destroying our environment

Correctly done animal farming isn't massively harmful to the environment. If we intend to remove everything that is unnecessary to 'save' the environment no matter how small the cost things like tv, shitposting on 4chan and shipping the foods for a varied vegan diet will need to go too as will breeding without regulation. Enjoy living with only what you need.

>>7622524
biochem fag here too. will contribute what I can too if people calm the cancer down enough

>>7622529
>moral philosophy
It's as philosophical as defend yourself or I'll steal your shit.

>>7622534
good form friend. sad people here r too busy memeposting to learn

>>7622535
I think his point was its an amoral subject and the memesters here are just shitposting their blogpinions

>>7622524
>>7622534
what can you tell me about loperamide?

also is alcohol oestrogenic?

>>7622358

>It's killing you fucking absolute retard

Killing is bad because killing is bad. We're still playing the circular vegan game.

>Sure.

Utilitarianism/consequentialism favours omnivores. If you want to argue for veganism from consequences rather than moral absolutism you must deal with this.

>That's not arbitrary, you're just a fucking braindead retard who should kill himself since his sentience doesn't extend outside being a psychopathic obese retard

Ad hominem doesn't change how arbitrary your judgement is.

>Seek help or better yet go fucking kill yourself

Have you seen how non-human species breed? Hell what about humans pre-'civilisation'? We do not apply civilised human moral duties to animals so why give them moral rights?

>Subjective

From both an evolutionary and emotional standpoint it's pretty objective. Unless you apply human morality to their situation shit is fine.

>You have no justification, you have no argument. Just the fact you're a dumb obese sack of shit

You are the one arbitrarily giving animals some, but not all, human 'rights' because the of the cute fluffy animals.

>>7622546
>also is alcohol oestrogenic?
not significantly. much moreso things like hops in beer and various sugars in agave from tequila

if you're really that concerned stick to moonshine, unflavored vodka and juniper beer

>>7622517
Hahahahaha U MAD BRUH?

>>7622546
loperamide is an opioid agonist, fucks your intestinal motility right up essentially.

I'm assuming you want to know its off label use as a taper for methadone. mytraginine is cheaper, better, and won't make your poop laquered stone. it may not be legal in your country tho. early case studies are showing it may actually be more effective than methodone for stemming opiate addictions

>>7622561
phys chem guy here, efficacy trials in vivo confirm this

>>7622381

>Both sentient

Differing degrees. Are ants and chimps both sentient in the same manner? Hell chimps might even qualify as lightly sapient.

>Of course self-defense is fine you fucking retard. Jesus christ how fucking oblivious are you?

So justified killing is fine sometimes but not others? What if the assailant only wishes to seriously injure you (e.g. reduce you to a paraplegic)? Why is killing ok to maintain one lifestyle but not another?

>>7622565
>Why is killing ok to maintain one lifestyle but not another?
Because he wants to self-validate himself about his life choices being correct on top of being militant about them.

>>7622394

>Even then you are harming far less lives through that than carnist practices

>Carnist

Bullshit terminology since we're talking balanced diets rather than purely meat-based ones. Omnivore is the correct term.

>>7622400

Well we're granting hyenas human rights...

>>7622564
cool. whats the deal with ibogaine?

>>7622417

>You know the line but continue to be as retarded as possible, this does not make your argument look smarter. It makes you look dumber

So where's this line all humans magically know? Additionally how do they know it? Am I born with knowledge that bacteria are fine to kill?

>>7622574
CARNIST
A
R
N
I
S
T

>>7622592
I think we already agreed that corpse-eater is metal as fuck name.

>>7622584
>>7622584
your basic psychedelic, only it violates the lipid BBB rule like coke does. a lot of the up/downregulation of the receptors trends away from dopaminergic behavioral reinforcement, so it can aid in recovery from severe addiction

can't patent a plant tho.

too bad it's illegal because it makes you see pretty lights when this is goin on.

>the only argument carnists have is playing dumb

lmao

File: ok bye mom.jpg (1MB, 1500x3000px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1500x3000px

>>7622607
Present an argument if you want a counterargument.

>>7622605
biochem fag here, this basically.

early trials were BTFO because they made it illegal as soon as they saw people were having fun with it too, in vitro stuff still supports all of it tho so we'll never know exactly how effective it is, esp because a catch all for the strongest mechanism of chemical addiction would be a huge pain for a lot of pharma firms

>>7622422

>Please compare a cow and bacteria and tell me that they are exactly the same

You're the one arbitrarily drawing a line for 'can kill' and 'can't kill'. You must explain why bacteria is fine and cows are not.

>>7622609
the arguments were presented

the only retort was

"im going to pretend i dont understand anything"

hahahahah lmfao

>>7622618
Bacteria isn't sentient life. You have to be seriously lacking in an elementary school education to not recognize such profound differences, immediately.

>>7622605

>your basic psychedelic

I suggest you do more research. It has a shitload more going on than the typical 5-HT2A activity of the classic psychedelics.

>>7622619
>the arguments were presented
I must be blind then, because I don't see any.
>Bacteria isn't sentient life.
Got scientific studies backing that up?
We struggle to define what sentient is, are plants sentient? What if something has its own language we cannot understand, is it sentient or not?

>>7622471

>Yes it was abandoned in favor of animal husbandry and agriculture, permament settlements and trade. What is your point exactly?

That the nomadic lifestyles of hunter-gatherers have no relevance to modern farming practices.

>>7622473

>The issue is not US centric. It applies to every developed country. It is impossible for every human to consume as much meat as those countries do. It only works now because the others just don't or can't.

Depending how you define developed country this is not always the case. And again insane excessive diets =/= sane omnivores. If you wish to advocate sane diets (i.e. less meat) and ethical meat production rather than veganism I'll back you all the fucking way

>>7622633
>because I don't see any

your problem

>got scientific studies backing that up

science agrees

sorry you didnt graduate high school bruv

>we struggle

no you struggle because youre stupid

>>7622635
Modern farming practice is a direct effect of abandoning hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Humans chose to settle down and build farms to grow their own crops instead scavenging berries and nuts and raise animals.

>>7622473

>If you can eat meat without killing then there is no reason to kill.

Unless the artificial meat is inferior or massively more expensive.

And if we're going for economic arguments and need over all else you can forget quality products entirely. Industrially produced crap is more environmentally friendly in the long run that high quality or 'handmade' products (or at least could be).

File: PROOF.png (18KB, 210x99px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 210x99px

>>7622647
>science agrees
Science says you're wrong, along with the 97% American scientists.

Your writing style is that of a redditard.

>>7622632
I'm aware, I was presenting the relevant info in a digestible manner

like how HS textbooks say chemical energy is stored in bonds

but on the level your average 4chan poster would understand

u rite doe

>>7622658
>u rite doe
bix nood muhfugga muh dik kill witey oogabooga lemme finna holla gurl

>>7622654
>science says you're wrong along with the 97% of american scientists

hahahahahaha

>your writing style is that or a redditard

and youre just a fat fucking faggot

cry more you little bitch

>>7622654
Thats not even remotely true. You wre fucking stupid.

>>7622627

So where does the line for sentience come in?

Ants? Spiders? Kelp?

You can say 'common sense' all you want but you've got an arbitrary distinction somewhere.

>>7622650

The tendency of hunter-gatherers to travel a few miles for food doesn't mean shit all in terms of shipping masses of vegan food to countries that cannot produce such food. This was the original point.

>>7622669
>>7622666
I know autistic people have trouble with sarcasm and irony, but this is getting ridiculous.

Unless you think "NO SCIENCE SAYS YOU'RE WRONG DUMB RETARD" is a valid argument, then let me just get my rope.

>>7622671
Ants and spiders are sentient you fucking retard. Kelp is seaweed, not sentient

What's so hard to comprehend? Why is basic biology so fucking difficult for you? Too much fat clogging your dumb fucking brain?

>>7622677
>This was the original point.
ok m80, I was just saying abandoning hunter-gatherer lifestyle shaped modern agriculture and animal husbandry.

>>7622679
>im only pretending to be retarded!!!

Sure thing

It is literal verifiable fact that bacteria isnt sentient life. You being an ignorant dumb fuck doesnt change that

>>7622665

>person presents rational clarification in a polite and straightforward manner

>call him a nigger for using a colloquialism

not that guy but it got me a little bit buttfrustrated I gotta say buddy