Vegan thread

>>7150714
I know it's the point, but god damn, this triggers me.

>save the planet
dropped

A vegetarian thread was started less than 5 minutes before this. Why not just keep it all in one thread?

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>>7150714
y-you can't replace eggs with oil

I'm not going to give into a lower quality of life while people continue to pump out too many babies

>>7150737

it's almost as if people treat humans differently than other animals

>>7150714
Do vegans not know how to bake?

Eggs are for binding and stabilization not for fat.

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>>7150770
nice try, fascist

>>7150785
Nah, he wasn't actually a vegetarian. That was just propaganda to make him look gentle and friendly. His favourite meal was rabbit.

>>7150800
A pretty fair observation imo

>on "X" amount of land you can grow "Y" much crops but only "Z" much beef.

Yea well in the world only so much land supports growing crops.

We also dont need more farm land as we dont even consume the crops we already grow.

>Muh animal cruelty

If you REALLY cared about ethical practices regarding livestock you would support farmers with ethical practices by purchasing their product.
By opting out you only increase the percentage of people who dont give a fuck about the animals.

>Muh health benefits

No one with half a brain would argue that the average westerner doesnt need more of a "vegetarian" diet.
That being said you have to be equally deluded to think you cant live a long happy healthy life with meat in your diet.

>>7150808
>Comparing addictions to meat
>Implying meat is an addiction
The autism is real.

We need to get a standardised op thread going, make it a daily vegan thread.

I'm in bed atm, but when I get the free time I need to invest in order to make it feasible content.... I will do it.

Just made some chilli beans with wholegrain rice for work and after gym tomorrow.
I just used 'old El paso' chilli mix red beans, mushrooms, red pepper and red onions (all veg diced and fried). Then beans and a glass of water followed by the spice mix. The whole thing thickens and stews.

Mix cooked rice and chilli beans together then fill tortillas with guac.

I still don't know how to into guac, because I always like improvising

This time it was a whole avocado salt and pepper, lemon juice, coriander and basil. Overdone on the lemon, because the whole thing is sour but it works well with the spiciness of the beans (I actually gave it a good dollop of tabasco)

/blog

>>7150823
Keep telling yourself that

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>>7150840
Posting some other meals of mine because I didn't take a pic of this particular one.

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>>7150840
>>7150850

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>>7150856
My qt likes to eat smoothies for breakfast exclusively.

She says it gives her a lot of energy for the day.

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>>7150859
>>7150840

Took a pic for you guys
Already rolled

>>7150735
Is this a troll ?
By this logic we shouldnt eat any plants we cant eat without processing with out hands (cooking / shelling )

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>>7150870
>Mfw copy pasta tells me to pick out pics of steak

This was a teriyaki style tempeh fry up with sesame seeds soy sauce and wine vinegar and sciroccho (that hot sauce thing)

Fucking tasty.

Doesn't look too good because of the light in my kitchen, apologies.

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>>7150878
Sweet potato and spinach curry.
Friends mom made this and it was a bit bland.

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This is by far THE MOST DELICIOUS VEGAN MEAL OF EVER

pasta
Avocado salsa.

Tomatoes no seeds
Onion diced 2:0.5 tomato to onion ratio
2 avos

FRESH basil
Salt and pepper and lime juice for flavour
Balsamic vinegar can also be used.

Put that shit on top

Fucking a+++++++

guys

serious question

are feces vegan?

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>>7150892
No really. I urge you to try this.

Add some olive oil to make that salsa runny


This is broccoli cream (blended with some cooked potato)

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>>7150898
Same dish

We were in a villa in Spain at the time so I thought I'd play with it and pretend I have a million insta followers.


Should I keep posting?

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>>7150854
You're welcome buddy.
Beans on toast but again having some fun with presentation and all that.

I like adding some Mexican spices and lime to my beans

The bread and beans were grilled together in the cooker too.

>>7150910
Homemade beans?

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If anyone wants any directions with any of these, let me know.

This is rice noodles with a chow mein base stir fry and cashews. Some chilli in there too.

It was nice, she doesn't enjoy the chilli that much though, but because I kept it in little slices, it was easy to get rid off and pass onto me.

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>>7150914
Nah, tinned. Heinz

I'm yet to make my own beans.
I don't really have an excuse that isn't shit for this, I guess it was lazy.

Same dish as >>7150919
But no chilli or spinach

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Vegan sushi.

This was me making sushi for the first time ever. Qt wanted to show me how to do it.

Some are sweet with peach and strawberries and some are avo cucumber and smoked tofu rolls.

I didn't like them.

>>7150910

>Supermarket white bread

Oh god nigger what are you doing????

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>>7150938
Being basic I guess.

Have some banana bread home made from scratch.

I fucking love that shit. This was first time making it, the time after that I added whole hazelnuts into the mix.

Hazelnuts are my heroin

>>7150873
it tackles the people who say "we are meant to eat meat, just take a look at these canines baby they are for MEAT consumption"
>>7150891
more like pick one an argument that you can actually debate: http://www.godfist.com/vegansidekick/guide/

if anything, veganism is full of logic because animal agriculture is literally the number one cause of environmental damage to the planet. that is proven everywhere, and, therefore, logical.

>>7150771
yes, and why is that? you could say the same with negros in the times of slavery and be like "oh well, what can you do"
>>7150776
there are alternatives to eggs...
>>7150823
>if you REALLY cared about animals being treated badly, you would pay people to do so, instead of not eating them so they are never born to suffer
are you fucking retarded? and how is KILLING,in any way, ETHICAL. there are NO humane farms that treat animals nicely. stop buying propaganda.

and almost no vegan pushes the healthy side. nobody gives a shit about that.

>>7150938
what, you always bake your own bread?

I'm vegetarian, I choose to eat some dairy (lactose intolerant) and eggs, but not much. Mainly because I can't eat soy, and I like to eat out sometimes.

>>7151015
>there are alternatives to eggs...

Yes, but baking is never the same without eggs.

>>7151008
The human race never needed claws or fangs to be apex predators.
We create our fangs and claws with our above average intelligence.
Like all of the scavengers and apex predators before us
We were meant to eat everything that sustains us

>>7151032
Yea, maybe, but factory farming is fucked up. We were never meant to consume the mass amounts of meat we eat (hence heart disease etc.)

>>7151018

Yes. Yes I do. Once a week, or twice if I'm really carb binging. Holy shit dude, it's not that hard and it's many times better than that generic store shit.

>>7151029
how is that? are you telling me, somehow, there is NO WAY vegan pastry can ever taste as good as one with milk and eggs? that is so arbitrary. i bet you haven't tried much vegan recipes, if any at all... there is such a bias against this. i keep reading stories about vegan sneaking in their recipes in places that hate the idea of vegans, then people savour and acclaim them, but once they realize they're vegan they say something like "oh... that's why it's so dry" or some trash like that. like they can't fucking accept something vegan might be just as good, if not better, than their stuff.

>>7151058
How do I do it?

>>7151069
I eat vegan all the time, just not many substitute dishes. I try to avoid that type of food no matter what it's made with desu. I've tried vegan baking, yes I'm shit at it, and I'm not saying vegan baking is not good, I'm saying it's not the same.

>>7151073
Unless you're unhappy with the bread you're currently eating, there's no reason to make your own.

>>7151085
I usually eat country harvest whole wheat I buy from the store, I don't like white bread. Does that make a difference?

>>7151081
>it's not the same.
in what way!

>>7151034
Hasn't the heart disease meme been debunked by now? It's obviously a matter of correlation and not causation

I remember now that it's processed meat that increases risk of heart diseases and cancer

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q: What do you call a vegan with a b-12 deficiency?
a: all of them

in other news, fuck you vegans. But i did hear an interesting point of view, cultures that were heavy on veganism due to meat scarcity often evolved pairings of things that formed a more complete protien profile of "grain + seed". Mexicans rice+beans, asia rice and soybeans, greece white beans and barley

was the first time i heard something interesting about vegan shit.

>>7151034
Heart disease is more correlated with flour and other simple carbs than it is with animal products

>>7150771
that's specieism (thats what kickstarted this whole vegan, vegetarian shit)

any vegans want to share their personal favorite recipes.
all ive got is hummus and salads

So do vegans honestly believe cows dislike being milked?

They're fucking cows

The best thing about being an omnivore is that I eat vegan foods with a side of meat, eggs or dairy.

>>7151494
Newsflash, vegans are not a hivemind. Personally I don't give a shit about what cows like or dislike.

>>7151431
>all of them
thats just simply not true at all lol
>fuck you vegans
lmao this kid has problems big time

>>7151489
>all ive got is hummus and salads
and b-12 deficiency

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>>7151526
>>all of them
>thats just simply not true at all lol
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23356638

Vegetarians are at risk for vitamin B(12) (B12) deficiency due to suboptimal intake. The goal of the present literature review was to assess the rate of B12 depletion and deficiency among vegetarians and vegans. Using a PubMed search to identify relevant publications, 18 articles were found that reported B12 deficiency rates from studies that identified deficiency by measuring methylmalonic acid, holo-transcobalamin II, or both. The deficiency rates reported for specific populations were as follows: 62% among pregnant women, between 25% and almost 86% among children, 21-41% among adolescents, and 11-90% among the elderly. Higher rates of deficiency were reported among vegans compared with vegetarians and among individuals who had adhered to a vegetarian diet since birth compared with those who had adopted such a diet later in life. The main finding of this review is that vegetarians develop B12 depletion or deficiency regardless of demographic characteristics, place of residency, age, or type of vegetarian diet. Vegetarians should thus take preventive measures to ensure adequate intake of this vitamin, including regular consumption of supplements containing B12.
Any questions?

>>7151494
>cows enjoys being perpetually impregnated by force, get their kids taken away the very second they're born, and connected to a machine that sucks their tits violently every day (often causing infection), on a hostile environment with abusers that treat them badly because they're the getaway to their shitty lives
Are you retarded by any chance?

>>7151534
>all of them
>the entire population of a group
>100%
Just fucking inform yourself and either buy suplements that cost close no nothing, or eat the proper foods that do supply you b12.
>any questions?
Yes, did you just use this as an excuse, or did you genuinely believe it prevents you from going vegan?

>>7151318
Just different ingredients, that's all.

>>7151410
Uh no, it's directly related and heart disease is still the #1 killer in the U.S.

>>7151462
Source?

>>7151534
But that's why as a vegetarian or vegan you supplement B12... You know cows get b12 shots right? B12 comes from a bacteria, we used to get B12 in our drinking water (from mountain springs etc.) and the soil used to contain B12 too, but now everything is so clean it kills the b12.

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>>7151545
>Yes, did you just use this as an excuse, or did you genuinely believe it prevents you from going vegan?

if your body dies from eating a diet, why would you choose it? You literally will die as a vegan without taking supplements for all the missing nutrients your body evolved and requires. The real question is why do YOU choose to eat so unhealthy a diet that you require medication to live? Is that different than a 400lb walmart patron who requires insulin to maintain thier cheetos and icecream diet?

also its true that you have to rebreed a milk cow every year or so to keep the milk flowing. but they are happiest when they are with child much like most women are.

>>7151034
>We were never meant to consume the mass amounts of meat we eat (hence heart disease etc.)
Funny that it was our most important food source for the vast majority of our existence, i guess we were "meant"(by Jesus i assume) to have a diet mainly composed of things which weren't in our diet at all until a few millenia ago.

>>7151578
Dude, keep eating the way you do and we'll see who needs medication. B12 is not medication.
>muh evolution durr we need to eat animals because... yea.. b12!
see this: >>7151564

>>7151537
le epic hyperbole argument

The cows don't care. Prove that they do

>>7151584
>most important food source for the vast majority of our existence
Not true, we ate some meat, but not that much. Fruit etc. was taken in a lot. But hell, if you want to eat like a neanderthal go for it.

>>7151585
>B12 is not medication.
>vasodillators aren't medication because the soil contains nitrates

>>7151558
http://www.eatrightpro.org/resource/news-center/on-the-pulse-of-public-policy/regulatory-comments/dgac-scientific-report

> Equation 3 demonstrates that carbohydrate intake conveys a greater amount of cardiovascular disease risk than does saturated fat. Combined with the evidence from multiple studies that have estimated the impact of saturated fat to be near zero,(46) it is likely that the impact of carbohydrate on cardiovascular disease risk is positive

>>7151553
You're talking about processed red meat. No link between regular meat and any diseases

>>7151595
>we ate some meat, but not that much.
Far more than we do today, also it is true anyway.
>But hell, if you want to eat like a neanderthal go for it.
Better a neanderthal than an ape.

I eat meat but I feel bad for the animals too. I would like to quit but its soo hard to be vegan. I tried and it wasn't working out. It just wasn't satisfying. I wish being vegan was cheap and satisfying because animals deserve better we all deserve better than this brutish existence we face I mean don't we. wouldn't it be great if everyone could live happy and care free?

>>7151601
Well large scale tests (30,000+ people) from vegetarians vs omnivores suggests otherwise. Most people eat more "real" meat and only some processed red meat anyways, don't you?

Anyways, I'm done arguing. Eat what you want, I'll eat what I want.

>>7151609
I can see it now, in the future when most of the world is vegetarian, you'll be that grump old man talking about "back in my day, we ate meat!" Come on man, get with the times.

>>7151617
At least go vegetarian, yea it's a little hypocritical but it's still a massive reduction in carbon footprint. I grantee you'll be able to do it. Just try not to increase your dairy in place of meat.

>I wish being vegan was cheap and satisfying

It is man, a can of chick peas is only $1. Many cheap cheap recipes.

Going vegan was easy for me because all the foods I love are vegan (with some adjustments) and i was never attached to meat.

The only thing I hate is people thinking I'm stuck up if it's brought up. It's incredibly awkward for me ordering food with friends because I'm scared they're going to judge me and start spewing facts about how it's unhealthy. Tips on dealing with this?

And don't tell me to get new friends. Took me so long to find these.

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>>7151627

>>7151619
And 20 studies consisting of a total of 1,2 million individuals shows no link between red meat but it does show a link between processed red meat and heart disease and cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2885952/

There's another from Europe with 500,000 people and it shows no link regarding unprocessed meats


I'm not going to deny vegetarians are healthier because I think vegetarians overall are more health-conscious. The average fat slob eating junk food is hardly a vegetarian

>>7151619
In my country meat consumption per person has increased since a decade ago so i don't think i will, that there will be proportionally much more curryniggers in the future than there will be my countrymen doesn't really sway me.

>>7151639
>much more
*many

>>7151637
it's not just processed red meat, it's all red meat. Canadian govt. just announced it too (not that anyone doesn't know that alread)

>>7151646
Post this anouncement

>>7151646
I just gave you a summary of 20 studies and a total of 1.2 million people that showed no link between regular red meat and heart disease nor cancer

It's always been processed red meat that is the devil and it will be in whatever study Trudeau might pull out of his ass

It's the same shit every time and whatever food you look at. Mental gymnastics and blaming a food because some retard eats or drinks an absurd amount or something prepared in a shit way

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TAKING OVER THIS SHIT BREAD

What are you /ck/hacks cooking this Christmas that dosen't involve meat or/and animal products?
I'm cooking veggie Christmas dinner for sister this year because she always feels left out considering that the ducks my father gets are always the centre piece to the meals.

Plus my Mum's lactose intolerant in a really bad way so I can make her some desserts without dairy products

At the moment I'm picking stuff out from Jamie Oliver's website

>>7151676
>This is NOT a normal state, and 95% of cows are never going to need it.
oh and fun fact, we used to let our pigs wallow in the cow pen because the cow shit from our supplemented cows had so much b12 in it that the pigs would be fortified from it. You know as little about how the world works as you do about how bad for you a plant based diet is.

http://designerecosystems.com/2014/07/12/is-feeding-animals-with-manure-the-way-to-go/

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>>7151702
>our supplemented cows
our UNsupplemented cows

>>7151698
>What are you /ck/hacks cooking this Christmas that dosen't involve meat or/and animal products?

big trays of eggplant parmigiana stacks

>>7151698
I have vegetarian family members who will be coming over to my house for Christmas too, haven't decided what to make for the alternate-main dish this year. In the past I've made curries that went over very well (carrot and red lentils, or roast cauliflower with chickpeas), I'm considering doing a white bean soup, or some kind of very fancy spanakopita this time around. If you want to go full vegan, how about a veg. green chili?

>vegcücks
not even once desu senpai

>>7151702
>how bad for you a plant based diet is
You can't be serious. I'm sorry man, you are too far gone.

Must admit theres only so many gas chamber pigs i can watch on Facebook before I change my mind on being a meatasaurus.

To the vegans or vegetatians in here. Send me a link or just infodump how to do it. Ive felt horrible for the past year. Ive eaten meat nearly every daynof my life. Im sick of being bound up. Im sick of vegetabkes being a "side".

Where do i get proteins besides beans and eggs? Are egg whites cool or BS? Also how do i make tofu taste good?

Whats the difference between processed red meat and just red meat? Unless you butchered it. Isnt the process of preparing it for the grocery store processig it?

>>7151889
Vegetarian here with a lmao3pl8 diddylift
Protein sources:
>Nuts
>Cottage cheese
>Soy
>Quorn

>>7151918
will soy give men big beautiful breast?

>>7151918
Quark? Or corn, im confused and i also le lift but have been having a rash of injuries and feel like my diet is the cause

>>7151637

A meta-analysis is only as good as the studies that comprise it. There's four studies they used to determine red meat's impact on coronary heart disease. Two showed strong protective effects, one showed a strong harmful effect, and one showed not much effect either way. Here's the study that found the strongest protective effect for red meat, which balanced the analysis towards null.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10656467

People filled out one survey to describe their food intakes, and 9 years later they collected mortality data. Aside from the long period between survey and follow-up, another big problem is the study didn't match people based on social class, which is something they saw strong associations with mortality for. The shoddy methodology made it so that not just red meat, but also biscuits, cakes, and pudding were seen as protective foods associated with better health. Does this seem like a reliable study to include in the meta-analysis?

The other study that found a strong protective effect was this one

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17069878

It was done on Australian Aboriginals, who are notorious for their low life expectancies and high rates of hardcore alcoholism. The study was trying to identify what dietary and lifestyle choices, not individually but as part of a pattern, in this population, were associated with poorer or better health. The main foods associated with poor health were processed meats, takeout foods, and eggs. Takeout foods/fast foods were probably the biggest reason why fresh red meat looked healthful, since in this poorly controlled study they represent the difference between people eating fast food and people who eat home cooked meals. In a group like the Australian Aboriginals, unhealthy diet/lifestyle patterns can be extreme and in this case, very confounding.

The study that found no real effect either way, it looks like the authors of this meta-analysis ignored data from.

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>>7152033
>>7151637

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/89/3/969.full.pdf

It's not measuring red meat itself, but iron intake mostly from red meat. They used the RR of 1.03 for heme iron and coronary heart disease, but not the RR of 1.42 found for heme iron and fatal coronary heart disease or non-fatal heart attack, which was an association that even remained after they adjusted for dietary cholesterol and dietary fat intakes. Even the iron in red meat is associated with heart attacks. " Heme iron intake, largely from red meat, however, was positively associated with risk of myocardial infarction."

The last study of the 4 was about the Mediterranean diet (which is low in meat and has been associated witth good healtth) and found a strong association for red meat and CHD

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12242583

Do you agree with the authors of the meta-analysis that these 4 studies are evidence that red meat has a neutral impact on heart health, even ignoring other forms of study that this analysis doesn't reference?

>>7151933
>>7151889
1. Quorn is a brand of meat substitute products.
2. Injuries have more to do with form than diet.

Regardless, I feel your pain - I'm a cyclist who eats meat sparingly, but the majority of my diet qualifies as vegetarian. Personally, I dislike meat substitutes, and I'm not a big fan of tofu, but I fucking love Indian food - so I get most of the protein in my diet from various daal dishes (lentils cooked in a flavorful, spicy broth, or cooked in with delicious curried vegetables) or other legumes, especially peanuts (toss em in a stir-fry, make a satay sauce, or groundnut soup, and spread peanut butter on fresh homemade bread, plus a dab of PB in your morning OATZ). After that, there's the wonder of cashews, and of course, there are hundreds of delicious recipes with all kinds of beans.

>>7151917
The main difference/issue with "processed" meats (hot dogs, salami, bacon, etc.) is that it contains lots of salt, plus there are concerns over nitrates and the carcinogenic properties of eating anything that has been smoked. Fresh meat is just plain animal tissue with nothing added, though a lot of 'fresh' pork and poultry sold in supermarkets gets a little of salt brine added before sale.

Redpill me on soy, /ck/. My dad's a doctor and he tells me that if I switch to soy I'm going to look flabby hairless and gay with manboobs and less manhood. I've been reading a bit here and there but the sources I used to read in my little spare time seem unreliable or corporate biased like Men's Health. Pls ck pls

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>>7151630
I think it's Murica
>be meat loving redneck but trying to eat healthier
>friends and family offer me oreos and nothing but meat breakfast lunch and dinner
>say no and get my own food
>they angrily bitch and moan about it to this day
>they mimick my exact words in retarded and gay tones
>my body can no longer handle dairy or beef
>i went through severe intestinal damage and am still recovering the embarassing aftermath

>>7152126
Eat soy, just don't switch to it. Everything is bad if you eat too much of it.

>>7152126
Everything in moderation.

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>>7152152
>be me
>avoid shitposts and post pics and delicious food
>get no replies
>go to sleep hoping it's just slow so I can come back to good discussion in the morning
>be morning
>eating porridge
>see this shit storm of Bulls hit

Fuck.
It's like you enjoy this arguing.

Have some buckwheat tomato and bean burgers/patties

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>>7151698
I usually have pierogi

Nd that's pretty much it, I let the women cook for Christmas, not because I'm sexist/fascist.

It's because they get feral and stressed during that period and I don't wanna get stabbed.


This is masala dosa. With peanut sauce and lentil soup.

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>>7151630
I make it into a massive joke and laugh it off.

I'm long done preaching and I'm long done arguing.

The most I ever felt judged is when I was at Pizza express and ordered a pizza with no cheese. The waitress was pretty fucking surprised to hear that.
When ordering and I can't be bothered to argue anything I just tell them I'm allergic.
But really , if someone can order triple cheese, why can't I order zero?

Pic related vrgan cheese pizza

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>>7151933
Injuries are just bad for or overworking too hard.

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler53.htm

There's a bunch of athletes that keep to vegan diets and they perform pretty well. Vegan body builders too etc

Lots of info online.

>>7151034
This meme needs to die already.
It's been scientifically proven that sugar is directly involved in causing heart disease.
Fat has nothing to do with it, animal meat or otherwise.

>>7152343

I'll let the rest of the world know, random crazy guy on the internet

>>7152280
Hey that looks pretty alright. What kind of vegan cheese is it?

>>7152358
Wilmersburger

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>>7152373
Fuck, forgot pic of meal.

>>7151674
Dude youre wrong. Its all red meat. Multiple govs are behind it.

>>7151578
>you literally will die as a vegan without taking supplements for all the missing nutrients your body evolved and requires.
>eat so unhealthy
holy fuck how can people be so dumb
>they are happiest when they are with child much like most women are.
they arent with their fucking child lmao what the fuck is wrong with you
if the cow is born male, it gets killed instantly and tossed away. if its born female, it gets taken away, milked the fuck out like her mother, and killed.

not no mention, the way the milk is gotten out, is harsh as fuck.

nice bond there.
>>7151598
>semantics
what about the rest of the argument he just told you? oh, i know, youll dismiss it. after all, you are just looking for excuses not to face the true.

>>7151593
>hyperbole
literally what happens. what part of it was an hyperbole?
and why wouldnt they care? lol, like them being cows suddenly makes what would cause so much PAIN to a human, immune to cows

how can people be this fucking delusional. like at least acknowledge that they suffer a lot and say they are too retarded and inferior so it doesnt matter. this is just evil.

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Pizza with no cheese

>>7152490
That's not pizza. It's bread with a shitty salad on it.

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>>7152494
Ok autism man. :)

Here's some bread with tomato sauce spinach and pretend cheese.

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>>7152494
>That's not pizza. It's bread with a shitty salad on it.

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Bumping with more food

This is a vegan burger place.

This particular burger is falafel

The place is called Nova Krova

>>7151918
>3pl8 diddly

Kek

you vegans just have it all wrong. you are trying to make delicious food, but can't give an honest answer to why you are avoiding the health benifits of eating meat. cold water fish, organic grass fed beef, grass fed butter, free range chicken and eggs are all meats that literally improve your body because you eat them. I'm not advocating that you have meat at every meal or that you get most of your protien that way, but do not delude yourself by saying that you are eating healthier by not eating those things i mentioned above.

I am in the fitness industry and i spend most of my day trying to convince crossfitter paleo drones to stop eating low quality meat for every meal and step up the veggies to 10-12 servings a day. But every now and then a vegan will cross my path, and over time i have a 90% success rate on getting them converted to a healthy diet, that includes regular amounts of the above mentioned proteins. I've never had someone say "wow, i did this for a month and now i feel like shit, im going back". it doesnt happen, because for better or worse, your body is a system of pipes and pumps, and fat and proteins fuel that engine. There are just too many of them that are not bioavailable from plants.

You want omega 3s? you realize you as a human cannot process the omega 3s in flax seed and chia, right? ALA-18 will just pass right through, its not bioavailible. One of the only ways for you to eat flax seed omegas is to feed them to a chicken, who will then lay eggs with the correctly bioavailible versions. Thats just one example of bullshit you thought you understand, but dont.

Look. its your choice. but if you are serious about being healthy, then do real science research, then have a nice peice of cold water fish sauteed in grass fed butter, and you will feel better for it.

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>>7152779
solid contribution to the thread. thanks for sharing your tangential opinions. it enriched us all.

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>>7152758
It's not that much of health benefits.

I just feel like shit eating any thing non vegan.

Although I don't make that much fuss when eating it and there's a little cheese on something

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Has anyone tried Beyond Meat?

I want to cut my meat consumption by 20-40% and I'm wondering if it could work as a substitute in wraps/pastas/curries/other dishes where chicken flavour isn't that important

>>7152818

>I just feel like shit eating any thing non vegan.

Elaborate

>>7152843
I think about the suffering, the decomposing body... all the shitty treatment really.

I've been brought up in an eastern European country so my diet was heavy on meat.

I worked in a meat factory for 3 years too so that put me off it.

That earthlings movie really isn't far off the truth.

>>7152442
They are behind it because newer science says you can totally eliminate non-locally sourced fertilizer by incorporating large animals heavily into recovering, say, a desertifying area.

The cow and the elephant are the main candidates. People don't usually eat elephants, and the mammoth had not yet been resurrected, so really only the cow is good for almost all climates.

A cow is red meat.

I mean holy shit, if you can't differentiate science from government you are fucked anyway.

>>7152855

Ah, I thought you felt something in your body.

Yeah, it sucks that animals suffer. That's why we need to shift our consumption towards farms that treat animals humanely.

>>7152863
There isn't such a thing as 'humane' slaughter.

You would be okay with your daughter getting humanely raped?

X
>we fed her and let her walk in the garden for a few hours before we raped her it's all good
>sperm release is healthy for you and humane rape is the only way to get that release.

>enjoy your mental illness

It is conclusive that diets with no animals products have humans showing up a doctor's or psychiatrist's office in droves.

>>7152875

Killing quick and painless is as humane as making the animal suffer as much as possible?

If we do the first, animals might, on average, have better deaths than the average human death.

>>7151015
>there are NO humane farms that treat animals nicely. stop buying propaganda.

There are, it's just that 99.9% of meat doesn't come from them and they are thus irrelevant to the discussion.

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Alright, let's steer this discussion in a bit more of an interesting direction than the usual shitposting.

Vegans- how to you feel about alternative meat sources to animals? Would you eat, say...

>In-Vitro meat

>Meat and animal byproducts produced from lab-grown brainless animal bodies (thus no capacity for suffering)

>Material from "less evolved" animals (e.g. cricket burgers)

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>>7152888
>there are NO humane farms that treat animals nicely
please continue to paint a broad brush as if your experience is how the world is. We had cows named hamburger and pigs named bacon and pork chop. we rode them around and played with them like dogs. they were happy and treated like kings. Pic related is one of my chicken coops where i treat them like kings and harvest thier eggs and meat.

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>>7152903
here is me roasting pumpkins for my chickens, even though it will slow down egg production. they love it so much

>>7152903
That was pretty much the opposite of what I said.

>>7151015
said there were no humane farms.

I said that there were, but that the overwhelming majority of meat didn't come from them, so they didn't really matter to the broad discussion.

>>7152896
Perfectly fine if it uses human stem cells.

>>7152912
And, pray tell, why human stem cells?

>>7152914
because humans are a virus, My Anderson.

>>7152921
No, but seriously. You could make hundreds of thousands of tons of pork from the cells you got from swabbing a single pig's cheek once.

>>7152758
Carbs fuel our bodies, protein and fat is a last resource for "fuel". It's biology 101 bro.

>>7152896
Vegetarian here, I'd eat insects if I could.

>>7152758
Actually, as humans we DO process ground flax. Yes, it is ALA, but a small amount of it is converted to DHA/EPA. You need to eat like 2 tablespoons a day of ground flax to make your needs. I'll pass on the toxic fish and oil thank you. All that omega 3 bull shit was based off of ONE study where it showed people who ate fatty fish had lower heart disease etc. They redid the test, you know the results? They had MORE heart disease and mortality. But of course, you never hear about the second test.

Watch this video: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/is-fish-oil-just-snake-oil/ he quotes the studies, I can't remember which ones they were

>>7152896
Well crickets are supposed to be a very efficient way of getting protein, it's almost 1:1 ratio of feed to product. But I still wouldn't eat it, because yea, that's disgusting.

>>7152986
If fat sucks as an energy source, why does our body store extra energy as fat?

>>7153003

Because storing carbs is less weight efficient than fat. Carbs attract water; if we were to store the same energy we normally store with fat as carbs, we would have a fuckton of excess water weight.

>>7152986
What does it mean for them to be a "last resource"? Does using dietary fat and protein as energy put stress on your cells or something?

What are the negative consequences if you completely cut carbs out? AFAIK, carbs are literally ONLY a source of calories, which is fine but fat and protein also provide calories while providing essential things that your body cannot make on its own.

>>7153012
Fat is much more efficient as a dietary energy source.
You're a fucking idiot if you think the carb metabolic process is more efficient than fat metabolism.

>>7153015
There is literally no ill effect cutting out carbs completely (and by carbs I mean sugar/starch, fibre is fine).
In fact cutting out sugar /starch completely is literally a cure for many diseases.

>>7153018

Depends on how you define efficiency.
The weight efficiency is greater with fat.
The speed of energy extraction? Clearly glycolysis. There's a reason why intense, short bursts of exercise uses anaerobic glycolysis (after using up the creatine phosphate reserves); fat oxidation can't simply keep up.

>>7153015
A diet without carbs will basically make you lethargic and could possibly kill you in the end. You see these people who tout low carb diets and no-carb diets say "I Feel so much better!" Well 9 times out of 10 those people were obese, they lost weight and felt better. When they start eating their shit diet again, they will gain all the weight back and probably more, and start feeling bad again.

"Fish consumption has been shown to be associated with a lower risk of heart disease in multiple studies. A recent meta-analysis showed an overall 20% risk reduction for fatal myocardial infarction in those who consume fish versus those who consume little or no fish.9 Patients who eat tuna or baked or broiled fish have up to a 32% lower rate of congestive heart failure. Eating fried fish does not appear to be protective.10 Since 2000, the American Heart Association's dietary guidelines have recommended that healthy adults eat at least two servings of fish per week, particularly fatty fish such as mackerel, lake trout, herring, sardines, albacore tuna and salmon.11 The beneficial health effects of fish consumption are widely believed to be due to the omega-3 fats they contain. A Cochrane Database analysis could not find proof of a link between omega-3 intake and improved cardiovascular health,12 but a more recent meta-analysis of omega-3 studies found evidence of decreased mortality, nonfatal myocardial
infarction, and sudden cardiac death.13 The largest omega-3 trial (GISSI) enrolled over 11,000 patients and showed a statistically significant decrease in mortality within 3 months of therapy, with a relative risk of 0.59; the relative risk of sudden death at 4 months was 0.47. 14"

> What Should We Eat? Evidence from Observational Studies
> Stephen M. Adams, MD, and John B. Standridge, MD
> 2006

>>7152986
>Carbs fuel our bodies, protein and fat is a last resource for "fuel". It's biology 101 bro.

this is true, only to a point. your body will preferentially use carbs (sugar) over fat and protien, but by no means is that gods design. please dont overstate your understanding of literally the most complex biological function in your body. metabolism is difficult to understand, im not mad at you and others for being confused.

Exhibit a) millions of diabetics who eat low to zero carb diets and live a healthy life without a sugar in thier blood. where are all the people falling over dead / tired who are on zero carb diets?
exhibit b) your body evolved to store fat for energy when a surplus exists. Do you believe the cycle of lipolysis and esterification is a last resort? ROFL please shut up. heres a little light wiki reading, Professor SmartyWizard. Its complex man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_metabolism#Fatty_acids_as_an_energy_source

>>7153087

was meant for

>>7152997

There are significantly more than 2 studies on the subject, so a comparison that doesn't include meta-analyses is rather ridiculous.

9. Whelton SP, He J, Whelton PK, et al. Meta-analysis of observational studies on fish intake and coronary heart disease. Am J Cardioi 2004; 93:1119-1123.
10. Mozaffarian D, Bryson CL, Lemaitre RN, et al. Fish intake and risk of incident heart failure. J ^m Goii Gardioi 2005;45:2015-2021.
11. AHA website. Available at: http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3006624. Accessed December 8, 2005.
12. Hooper L, Thompson RL, Harrison RA, et al. Omega 3 fatty acids for prevention and treatment of cardiovascular disease. Gociirane Database Syst Rev 2004;4:CD003I77.
13. Harper CR, Jacobson TA. Usefulness of omega-3 fatty acids and the prevention of coronary heart disease. .4myCorrf(o/2005;96:1521-1529.
14. Marchioli R, Barzi F, Bomba E, et al. Early protection against sudden death by n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids after myocardial infarction: time-course analysis of the results of the Gruppo ltaliano per lo Studio della Sopravvivenza nell'Infarto Miocardico (GlSSI)-Prevenzione. Gircuiation 2002;105:1897-1903.

>>7151528
Nitritional yeast you huge faggot. Shut up with this dumb shit.

>>7153093
The real problem is not our Omega 3, it is our Omega 6. We have TOO much Omega 6, so it throws off the balance. An ideal balance would be 1:1, but with processed foods and meats containing so much omega 6 (chicken, oils etc.) we don't have enough omega 3 to compensate, that's why sometimes supplementing omega 3 helps. With vegans or vegetarians, that ratio can go even higher (because they don't eat any fatty fish). Some say this can increase risk of heart disease. BUT the real culprit is the B12 for vegans. With low B12 and bad ratio of omega 6:3 (talking like 10:1 +) you can be slightly higher risk for heart attacks and brain degenerative diseases. This low B12 and ratio of bad omegas, causes your homocysteine level to rise, this is inflammation. However, when vegans supplement b12 their homocysteine level drops below omnivores and their risk for heart attack and brain degenerative disease lowers.

So long story short, we eat way too much omega 6 and not enough omega 3. Be sure to supplement B12 and you'll be ok ( that goes for veg diets).

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>>7152997
>Actually, as humans we DO process ground flax. Yes, it is ALA, but a small amount of it is converted to DHA/EPA.

Listen, im not here to change your mind, i dont give a fuck. If you beleive that flax seed omega 3s are bioavailable enough for your needs, go nuts. My spouse has rheumatoid arthritis, and her life literally depends on her nutrition being on point. EPA+DHA is a big part of it. I have 9 years of bloodwork every 6 weeks documenting her levels of those. We have tried everything from cod, salmon, fish oil, refined fish oil. hemp, flax, etce tc. Here is the stuff that actually is bioavailible: fish, fish oil, eggs produced by chickens that are fed flax seed.

You can quote as many bull shit studies as you wish to justfy being a vegan, but this just reenforces my point from the original post. Your body is complex, and there is a lot of misinformation out there pushed by people with agendas. If you have a foundational belief, then make sure its correct. You seem to think flax is as good as fish oil, but where is your blood tests to prove it? I have mine that do. Thats why i believe it, the actual data from HER body aligns with the data i believe is trustworthy. You believe that fish doesnt affect the heart, but do you have personal data that it affects you in a direction, or are you trusting a non profit with an agenda for the information

This whole thread is a shitshow of people who have not taken the time to educate themselves about a belief, and are willing to argue about it when someone who actually knows something and has scientific data to back it up shows up.

The only person in the thread i am cool with is the dude who said slaughter was emotionally difficult for him. Fine- eat eggs, then, you will live a long healthy life. But don't be intellectually lazy or dishonest as the expense of your own health.

>>7153126
Read my post here: >>7153124

She could probably improve by greatly reducing her omega 6.

>>7153126
But I do have scientific data to back it up, from a Dr. who runs a non-profit. You think your studies are non-biased? So many are funded by the meat/dairy/egg industry.

>>7153126
>rheumatoid arthritis
Watch this video, maybe it'll have some good information you haven't tried
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/why-do-plant-based-diets-help-rheumatoid-arthritis/

and this one

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/diet-rheumatoid-arthritis/

>>7153124

> We have TOO much Omega 6, so it throws off the balance

That's not completely correct. Dietary intervention studies have shown that reducing saturated fat and replacing it with omega-6 heavy PUFAs lowers heart disease mortality even without any sort of omega-3 increase.

The preference should be omega-3 over omega-6, but trying to avoid natural sources of omega-6 fats like nuts or virgin oils due to a fear of heart disease is not scientifically supported.

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>>7153130
>She could probably improve by greatly reducing her omega 6

yes you are 100% correct about that. we manage the ratios very carefully. We have also not found a 'limit', and for the past 4 years she is on a 'fat dominant' archetype diet. some call it 'fat adapted' or 'pseudo-keto'.

>>7153136
>maybe it'll have some good information
i am thankful for the links. we have literally tried every archetype diet out there over the course of many months and supported with bloodwork. HER body was not responsive to low gluten/vegan diets, and she responds well to high protien, which for many RA folks is very much not the case. most RA folks need to go easy on the meat. I dont know why, RA is a fucking syndrome not a disease. But thank you for the links. The reason i came into this thread is because i have done many many laps on the nutritional hampster wheel, and i have the unique point of view of having boxes of bloodwork supporting my autistic level of experimentation with my ladys nutrition

>>7153133
>You think your studies are non-biased? So many are funded by the meat/dairy/egg industry.

Are you implying that the dairy industry funded his wife's blood tests?

>>7153147
Yes, true. And I'm not saying to whole food omega 6's (like nuts which are mostly omega 6 and monounsatured). They do nothing but good, and shown time and time again to be the best sources of fat.

>>7153154
No problem, I understand different things work for different people. Are those your chickens? They look really healthy.

>>7153154
Combined with lowered calories, I'm talking 1200 tapered down to 700 over 5 days, and do that once a month, and you'd have most of the health benefits of a week long fast.

It's really good for you.

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>>7153158
>. Are those your chickens?
yes. we have them to produce eggs that contain omega 3s in a high bioavailible form. Fish oil mega doses is scary stuff, because you never know whats in those things. I know EXACTLY whats in my chicken eggs. Each one of my eggs has 200-250mg of omega 3s and no heavy metals to speak of. A normal egg has about 60mg. There are commercial versions of the same gimmick, 'eggsland best' is the brand around here and go for $5.50 for 18. I highly recommend it as part of a fish and fish oil supplemented pathway if you want to actually consume bioavailible O3s.

Fun side note, a cow can convert plant omega3s to be bioavailible because it is a rumenant. it chews the food/grass into a paste, then lets it ferment in one of its stomachs for a while. the biosphere in that second stomach breaks down nutrients into bioavailible forms that will sustain mammals. Thats why if you tried to eat wheat grass as your only food you would die, and a cow would flourish.

biology is crazy man. metabolism and nutrition is so friggin complex, there is no doubt that 100,000s of people in the field have different points of views. add in the complexity of each person is a little different, and who the fuck knows. Make a theory. test it with bloodwork, and KNOW that your nutrition is on point FOR YOU.

Since there seem to be a lot of knowledgeable people here I guess I'll ask....

Every time I cut down on calories I end up gaining some weight. Some background: female, 5'6 112 lbs. I don't exercise other than walk my dog. I'm not trying to lose weight, I'm trying to be healthier. I've been eating a lot of pasta and rice etc. I want to eat less of that crap but I'm scared I'll end up gaining weight like all the other times I ate too little.

I guess my question is what am I doing wrong to cause this? Is my body storing fat because it thinks I'm starving?

>>7153189
Well, it's literally impossible to gain weight by eating less calories. You are probably substituting other foods (like eating more nuts) that are more calorie dense. You could try switching to whole wheat pasta and brown rice.

>>7153189
>I guess my question is what am I doing wrong to cause this?

You're not counting calories accurately, or you are simultaneously lowering your activity level drastically. If you maintain the same level of activity then it is physically impossible to gain weight while cutting calories. It can't happen. Period.

How are you checking the calorie content of the food you are eating? Do you have a scale to confirm portion sizes or are you guessing? My guess is that you're actually not cutting calories though you think you are.

>>7153189
Too little information. We don't know what you're actually eating. Calories and macro nutrient wise. It could just be water bloat, or more fiber leading to slower digestion leading to more shit in your gut.

So many variables.

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>>7153189
>Every time I cut down on calories I end up gaining some weight.
calorie restriction on a health weighted person is different than most of the fat fucks who are on this board. Your experience is normal.

If you want to eat healthier, increase the portion of plate you get from vegetables. You should be able to look back and say you ate 10-12 servings of veggies today. If you do that one simple change, you will eat less crap like pasta and rice. The real question is what is healthy mean to you? Aerobic conditioning? Strength/Muscle tone? longevity? "good bloodwork"?

Difficult to solve a problem without knowing the goal. When i train people like you, i usually just give them the 10-12, tell them to buy a dog and walk it a mile three times a day and then run them through some circuit training for strength. Its easy to buy fresh and flash frozen steamer veggie bags, your metabolism isnt damaged, so you just need to move. Buy a jump rope and start using it 3 times a week to work up to 10-15 minutes.

or we can meet at your gym and ill tailor you a nice little goal oriented progression, then motivate you to lift heavy weights a few times a week for a few small fee :)

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>>7153211
>You're not counting calories accurately, or you are simultaneously lowering your activity level drastically. If you maintain the same level of activity then it is physically impossible to gain weight while cutting calories. It can't happen. Period.

stop. you have no experience coaching or giving dietary advice to healthy people. it doesnt work that way for people who arent fat. homeostasis is a motherfucker when you arent fat. pls go back to /fit/ and argue abotu squat depth while you sit in your extra wide fat chair.

>>7153233
>stop. you have no experience coaching or giving dietary advice to healthy peopl

Untrue. I have plenty of experience doing that which is why I am asking how anon knows that he or she is really cutting calories or not.

The simple fact is that most people are horrible at estimating volume and weight. Unless anon works in an industry in which they are constantly weighing things (like a butcher or deli counter, post office, etc.) chances are that his or her estimates are way off. People think they're eating "4 oz of pasta" when in reality it was double that.

>>it doesnt work that way for people who arent fat
It works that way for *everybody*. Conservation of energy (aka calories in / calories out) is a fundamental law of the universe. If you do not realize such a basic and fundamental fact then I suggest retaking basic high school physics and chemistry.

>>7153245
post a full body picture of yourself with a timestamp, and i will leave this thread and never return.

>>7153233
Don't make excuses. You have no idea what you're talking about either.

No really, you don't. Yes it's a bit more complicated, and needs can vary depending on the individual, but if you understand your baseline metabolism, you can modify your diet and activity levels to control your weight.

The short term things that can affect weight quickly are water bloat, and the amount of poop in your intestines. That's why they say to weigh yourself at the same time of day every time you do it. Even then a change in diet takes time to adjust to so you won't know your actual weight until a few weeks of consistent change.

The anon posing the question has not given enough information to determine the problem, if there even is one.

>>7153227
I guess I always assumed I'd have to eat SO much greens to offset giving up the pasta and crap that I wouldn't be able to keep up with it. What I'm looking for is definitely longevity as I'm not an idiot and I know my metabolism will slow down eventually and I'll become an unhealthy chubby slob who doesn't know how to eat right.
I've tried exercising before and doing some lazy free weights and immediately got muscle definition on my arms and I got scared that I'd turn into one of those stuffed sausage muscle women and gave it up.

>>7153256
>The anon posing the question has not given enough information to determine the problem, if there even is one.
i beleive i said exactly that in my post, jackass.
>Difficult to solve a problem without knowing the goal.

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>>7153262
LOL well, a couple things, and let me be honest- the reason i want you to eat all those veggies is because it will fill you up and you wont be able to keep up with it. thats the point. What it coaches you to do in a sustainable way is answering the call of nutrition in a way your body needs. if you arent getting the right amount of calories, you will be tired and lose weight and be hungry. you will eat more food then. You can be rail skinny and healthy and still eat two pounds of food a day.

moving is key. get a jump rope, seriously, its 8$ on amazon, go order it right now. mix it up and do whatever is fun.

i promise you that if you lifted weights every day for the next three years you wont get visible muscles. you will get some curves. The picture attached is what two years of lifting weights does to most women. trust me, thats very sexy.

>>7153288
Thanks man, I'll definitely invest in a jump rope and stuff myself with veggies. My downstairs neighbours might murder me but it's all good.

>>7153265
So you're allowed to bash on other people but oh no someone calls you out and you get all defensive.

That anon gave the standard advice. If you don't know your base metabolic rate then you can't actually work on lowering your intake or raising your activity level.

And the only this you said in that post were muh homeostasis and u dun kno nuthin. Come the fuck on anon.

>>7153155
One improvement in one person's case doesn't mean jack shit. That's not science, that's an anecdote.

>>7153363
1) You're not answering my question anon. What to agencies with an agenda have to do with that guy's wife's blood tests?

2) Regarding "one person's case". Sure, you're right that you can't draw broad conclusions from one set of data. But you most certainly can draw conclusions regarding that one person. Which is what anon is doing.

>>7152758

>cold water fish, organic grass fed beef, grass fed butter, free range chicken and eggs are all meats that literally improve your body because you eat them.

Go ahead and show your science. Just attaching buzzwords to foods isn't enough. Cold water fish you could probably make an alright case for, but butter? Eggs? Beef? How are those healthy?

>>7152903

>they were happy and treated like kings
>and then we chopped their heads off

>>7150827
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/addicted-to-fat-eating/

I'll post this again..
I don't imply that meat directly equals addiction because I don't want to dogmatize this subject.

But It would be very valuable for the world and the likes of yourself to actually take a look out of your closet and learn to understand how this obscure mass in your head called brain, works.

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>>7153390
its been well studied that beef and dairy from pastured livestock has some profound differences, mostly in the omega3s and CLA content. its not life changing amounts, but if you are only having beef once a week, spend the extra 1$ a pound and get the stuff with the higher nutritional content. Not sure why that triggered you about, but thats not buzzword.

organic free range chicken is at least from a farm putting on a pretense of giving the birds a higher quality of diet and life. with less chemicals. None of which can compare to my birds, who truely live the high life and eat more bugs then they should because i spoil them. Commercial grower feed, which i have used, isnt all bad, but dont fool yourself into thinking its night and day difference. Again, its an extra buck for maybe a 15% improvement. why wouldn't you? Eggs on the other hand, show massive changes in nutritional content depending on feed. for me, i was so excited about the possibilities, i raise my own. for you, buy the best omega enriched eggs you can find/afford. thats a no brainer unless you are retarded.

>. Sure, you're right that you can't draw broad conclusions from one set of data. But you most certainly can draw conclusions regarding that one person. Which is what anon is doing.
thats not what im doing. I told you the human body cannot process ala 18 thats in flaxseed, and thats why its not bioavailible. That is a fucking fact. there were handwaving bullshit statements made that your body 'converts it'. This is bullshit, no science, no data. The human is not a cow, you do not have a rumen with a 50 gallon tank of microbes converting your food. I backed that statement up with personal experience and blood work results of experimentation. Thats called using disparate established facts reenforced with personal experience. Thats how i choose to make my case, not by posting 19 pubmed studies explaining what i already know. feel free to keep arguing, the b12 deficiency is affecting you.

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its troubling to me how many armchair vegans there are in this thread who have no idea what they are doing to their body.

I will 100% support someone who is sitting here saying they are a vegan, but then explains how they are solving the problems that come with that. BCAA, Omega3s, B12, concentrated plant protien, complete amino profiled meal plans. etc. Thats what veganism means. you are taking on a huge nutritional burden that is challenging to your health. and most of you have no idea what you are doing. I promise you i am a much better vegan than you and when i was trying it, i was healthier, and actively coaching and competing in the fitness industry. from the dialog in this thread, you guys are trying to make tasty sex with your pants on meat analogs instead of just accepting your choices and and learning how to pair seeds and grains for effective nutrition. Its not healthy otherwise, its killing you as bad as a twinkie based diet.

This bozo up there wants me to explain why using cold water fish in my diet isnt buzzwordly healthy? gfto and let me know when you can make a bar move with your bodyweight on it.

>>7153460

There are some minor differences in nutritional content, but that's not what you said. You said it was good for you, that they had health benefits. If I make a cookie that has 5% more vitamin E than a conventional cookie, does that make it healthy? Where's the data that suggests grassfed versions of these foods that are normally considered unhealthy for other reasons than vitamin/mineral content, are actually healthy? The phrase "grassfed" is marketing buzzword.

>>7153512
This anon is right. Meat isn't considered unhealthy because of lack of nutritional value, it's because it demonstrably, undoubtedly, increases your risk for cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and dementia.

>>7153520
Can you demonstrate that then? Because I am doubting. Where's the evidence?

>>7153536
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnHYHjchn6w

This is a good INTRODUCTORY video that does a good job on TOUCHING on all of the things I mentioned, and providing resources for further research. I'm emphasizing here that this isn't an end-all-be-all, but this is a highly respected doctor that provides compelling evidence for his claims.

Again, there's so much more than this, but this is the easiest way for me to get this information rolling to you without spamming a million links no one will even read.

>>7153536

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/2244512/2

That's the nutrition table for grassfed butter. It looks a lot like regular butter. An ounce has 14 grams of saturated fat, which raises your risk of developing heart disease. Why does it become healthy when you call it grassfed?

Grassfed beef is also recommended you limit just like grainfed beef by the American Institute for Cancer Research, because the main cancer-causing aspect of beef doesn't come from the difference between grain or grass fed

http://preventcancer.aicr.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=14455&news_iv_ctrl=0&abbr=pr_hf_

>However, the report only makes recommendations supported by biological evidence of how a cancer link works. A switch from grain- to grass-fed beef does not resolve concerns about red meat, such as the high amount of heme iron found in red meat.

And what is feeding flax seeds to eggs going to do? It's the most concentrated source of dietary cholesterol in the American diet, again raising your risk of heart disease

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2989358/

You don't make these unhealthy foods healthy by tacking on buzzwords.

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>>7153570
>And what is feeding flax seeds to eggs going to do? It's the most concentrated source of dietary cholesterol in the American diet, again raising your risk of heart disease

well, its funny how i eat on average 4-6 eggs a day, fried in pastured butter, for about 15 years, and yet, when i had my physical, my blood work was "some of the lowest he had seen even among fitness patients". Hmmmmm.

btw, that ncbi link you posted is a blog post, not a research paper. it literally takes two facts: people with heart trouble need to be careful and pre-diabetics shouldnt eat a lot of eggs. Its funny to me that you needed to use a third order derivative, aka an opinionated blog post as "science" to shoot me down.

i literally eat 6 eggs a day, and have for 10 years and my blood is better than yours. Tell me more about what you know? Tell me more about your obscure studies of fat people showing that fat people shouldnt eat a lot of butter and eggs? nonsense. typical vegan nonsense.

can you run two miles without stopping? Can you squat down with your bodyweight on your back and stand back up? Does your doctor complement you on your health efforts at a physical? is your bmi under 20?

Post a full length picture with a timestamp, and ill shutup and leave the thread. you fat fucks who dont know science, nutrition and aren't even good internet researchers. All that bs and you are still missing the point. if you dont eat meat and eggs, you are compromising your health. take measures to avoid that, and impress me with a picture of a meal with a balanced amino profile. you are terrible at your vegan religion. its a religion, because it is faith based, not science.

>>7153554
Not that guy, but you wouldn't happen to have a couple links on hand would you? I can't stand powerpoint presentations.

>>7153593

Yeah, it's funny how you dismiss things and argue entirely through anecdotes.

>btw, that ncbi link you posted is a blog post, not a research paper

More honestly, you mean a review paper. Get more mad and fabricate more anecdotes, why don't you. That'll show me.

>>7152878
>if we do the first, animals might, on average, have better deaths than the average human death
Get this in your head already: it will NEVER happen. Nobody cares about it enough for it to happen. Businessmen in this industry only care about making money. Literally. They do everything they can to pay legislators not to pass laws that will make them spend more money on the animals (for their health), they spread anti-vegan publicity, have shaped the image of farmed animals into cartoons, etc. Even if they wanted, I don't think it's physically possible to have a worldwide trained industry that can kill 100% of the animals 100% of the time.

Not to mention, killing is killing. You remind me of Albert Fish telling the mother of one of his victims that "at least your kid died a virgin". He still kidnapped, beat, and ate the shit out of her.

>>7152877
>systematically and effectively paying someone to severely torture a wide variety of animals in a wide variety of forms just so I can eat some food that is non-vital, perfectly replaceable, and that also kills the planet
>eating plant-based food instead
Which one is more ill?

>>7152896
>in-Vitro meat
Not opposed to ethically, but doesn't appeal to me.
>meat and animal byproducts produced from lab-grown brainless animal bodies (thus no capacity for suffering)
What? This is too much of a reach, and sounds like exploitation as long as they are aware of being alive.
>material from "less evolved" animals (e.g. cricket burgers)
This is like saying there is a size requirement for an animal to be considered part of a vegan diet or not. Suffering is suffering. I don't kill insects.
>>7152993
>>7153000
>ewwww insects
If that's your fucking reason for not eating them, fuck you. Why even be vegetarian at all... picky pricks.
>>7152903
Yeah they sure look happy being there all day. See how you would like that, uh?

And, like it's been stated: 1. you still kill them 2. doesn't matter, because close to no one ONLY eats met from their own "humane" farm (do you? Do you not ever eat a burger on a fast food chain, or buy some product that contains egg on the supermarket?) 3. doesn't matter, because this can't be done on a worldwide scale.

>>7153655
I'm not sure if you need to refute some guy saying things about physical and mental health without any proof, but if you really insist I don't think arguing about animal cruelty is the way to go about it.

>>7153394
>>like kings
>>then we chopped their heads off
and?

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>>7153684

That's some Louis XVI shit

>>7153674
>as long as they are aware of being alive.

How would a brainless "animal' be aware of anything?

>>7153448
and it would be very wise for you fucks to walk out of the closet and learn how your dick and pussies work. litterally no ammount of a single person not eating animals can outweigh the impact of that person not existing in the first place.

Save the world?
stop having so many damn kids like its a right.

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>>7153674
>he doesn't kill spiders

you madman

>>7153701
There's no reason we can't do both.

>>7150896
No, they're an animal product.

>>7153709
If it isn't forcibly taken, why is it a problem?

Like, just suppose, animals regularly shed perfectly good and dead, not alive, meat. What would be the issue with eating it?

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>>7153600
>More honestly, you mean a review paper.

its not peer reviewed in any way, doesnt limit its cited sources to peer reviewed data. its a blog post. its electronic, its some dudes random opinion, and it stands alone. You funny. and yet, you didnt follow up with peer reviewed data, just used the word anecdote a few times and attacked me personally. shocking.

Lets play a game called shit you also dont know

> are bones made of calcium?
> what percentage of babies have clinical osteoporosis?
> Why does the national diabetes center recommend a high GI food like "heart healthy grains" as part of their recommended diet? which by the way turns immediately into the blood sugar they are trying to minimize.
> how long could you live as a vegan without b12 supplementation?
> how does high cholesterol foods cause heart disease?
> why is taking calcium carbonate supplements a terrible idea for vegans?

These sorts of things are more fun to do when you are standing in front of me and we can play 'who knows their shit'. meanwhile, you can google up on that stuff and realize you might not know much about being a vegan or how your body actually works

>>7153593
All that anecdotal evidence is completely fucking worthless. Heart disease is the NUMBER ONE killer in the united states, a country that gets, on average, 3-5 times more protein than necessary from animal products, with a diabetes and obesity epidemic that gets worse and worse and meat consumption continues to increase. The conclusions these trends point to are fucking obvious and you have to jump through hoops to avoid them.

Also google vegan bodybuilders and athletes, you'll find no shortage. Google average weight of vegans vs carnivores, google average rates of diabetes and heart disease in vegans vs carnivores, google cholesterol levels in vegans vs carnivores. The information is readily available, the science is crystal fucking clear.

Just admit that you eat meat for emotional reasons, not for nutrition.

>all these health arguments about veganism
NOBODY GIVES A SHIT. That's the lowest reason to go vegan. It just follows the egoism everyone who eats meat and dairy has. "If I do it, it's gonna be for MY health"... how about you do it for EVERYONE's fucking health because animal agriculture is killing this planet, and second, if, for some reason you can empathize a little with breathing beings, you do it for all the billions of animals that have been bred to live a painful die?

>>7153677
I guess no way is a good way to argue with somebody that deluded...

>>7153690
I didn't even understand the example on the first place. Why would that happen in the first place instead of in-vitro?

So you're basically asking about bivalves, then?

>>7153704
It's really hard because I'm afraid of them and insects in general. I've killed some since going vegan, but I try to do it as quick as possible, and still feel bad about it... nobody can be 100% vegan, but you might as well try to have consideration for all beings instead of just some...

>>7153719
He's trolling.

>>7153719
Ethically, nothing.

>>7153733
See, but the thing is that's what meat eaters give the most shits about. It's pretty obvious that they don't care about the planet, so you have to go to them with things they DO care about, their own personal health. You've got it completely backwards. Most people are so empathetically bankrupt, it's not worth trying to convince them their actions are ethically wrong.

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>>7153732
>. Heart disease is the NUMBER ONE killer in the united states, a country that gets, on average, 3-5 times more protein than necessary from animal products, with a diabetes and obesity epidemic that gets worse and worse and meat consumption continues to increase

and lets take that apart: please name the efficiency of storage in adipose tissue for Fat, Protien and Carbs and GI impact of each. In other words. if you eat 500 calories of each, how much stored fat does each class of macro give you. ill give you a hint, one of them used to moo, and is 40%.

tell us more about how eating meat causes diabetes? rofl

There is a massive shortage of vegans bodybuilders and athletes. Its too fucking expensive for most, because most people in those categories are not sponsored to eat pea powder and hemp protein. you really ruined your credibility with this point. its absolutely retarded position to take.

enjoy this article about how fucking hard and expensive it is to bodybuild as a vegan. written by the mutherfucker who owns veganbuilder.com ffs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/sports/vegans-muscle-their-way-into-bodybuilding.html?_r=0

>>7153725

>its not peer reviewed in any way, doesnt limit its cited sources to peer reviewed data. its a blog post

It's published in the Canadian Journal of Cardiology, which is a peer-reviewed journal, and its references are all peer reviewed. I say again, you're arguing entirely through anecdotes and ignoring actual science.

>Let's play a game

Is the game called "distractions and denial"? You sure sound like you know your shit, implying barley and oatmeal are high GI foods that "turn immediately into blood sugar"

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>>7153701

>>7153757
Body building in general is disgusting because of the gross amount of resources consumed, they are all beyond redemption, but my point is that it's entirely possible to be athletic as a vegan. A normal person can be fit on a vegan diet relatively easily.

Again, literally just google "vegans diabetes," you're being purposefully dense. It should take you a few seconds to find the information you want if you're so scientifically literate.

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ill point out that ever neck bearded redditor in this thread giving me shit has failed to produce a full body shot of themselves. More chins than a chinese phonebook and stretchy pants ruin ones credibility on matters of diet, nutrition and fitness dont it? Almost as much fun as the emaciated waif who couldn't put 135 on the bar and stand back up. there are no vegans in this thread up to this point who arent one of these things. healthy

>>7153768
Nice ad hominem.

>>7153768
because you're going to find SOMETHING to poke fun of at whoever did post, you combative twat. I doubt anyone could live up to whatever your fucked up standards of fitness are

>>7153701
>litterally no ammount of a single person not eating animals can outweigh the impact of that person not existing in the first place.

I agree with that although it is rethorical bullshit, but anyway what the fuck does this have to do with the post you were replying to?

>>7153768

I'll point out that you've failed to offer any scientific support for anything you've said.

>>7153762
>It's published in the Canadian Journal of Cardiology, which is a peer-reviewed journal, and its references are all peer reviewed. I say again, you're arguing entirely through anecdotes and ignoring actual science.

nope. If you actually were an academic, you would have found that is a "viewpoint paper" not a peer reviewed article. try again, genius

http://www.onlinecjc.ca/content/authorinfo

>>7153768
the drunk that eats six eggs a day trying to tell me I'm not healthy, wew lad

>>7153793
>I'll point out that you've failed to offer any scientific support for anything you've said.

im not aware of anything i have said that is controversial or a disputed fact. What statement did you need scientific support for? Not that im going to spend 20 minutes looking through pubmed, im just curious what ive said that you think i couldn't back up with a wall o links to peer reviewed papers?

>>7153794

>Regardless of how you choose to publish your article, the journal will apply the same peer review criteria and acceptance standards.

I don't even know why you're trying to deny this

>>7153803

Let's start with what you skipped over. A valid reason to believe things like grassfed butter, grassfed beef, and pasture raised eggs are healthy foods, despite the conventional versions of these things not being healthy. Why is it healthy when you slap a buzzword on it?

>>7153775

not to mention the fitness of the poster has nothing whatsoever to do with understanding of basic physics

>>7153775
>I doubt anyone could live up to whatever your fucked up standards of fitness are

i posted them already earlier. Its really simple standard. If you can jump rope for 10 minutes or run for 2 miles, you are aerobically fit. If you can do a back squat with your body weight, you are strong. If your doctor has no notes for you to fix in your lifestyle, you are healthy. and if your bmi isnt over 30 and you can do the other two things, then you are good to go in my book.

>can you run two miles without stopping? Can you squat down with your bodyweight on your back and stand back up? Does your doctor complement you on your health efforts at a physical? is your bmi under 20?

>>7153817

It's like arguing that if a non-smoker said cigarettes are bad for you, but he wasn't athletic or health-conscious himself, he's wrong that cigarettes are bad for you.

Fuck, have you ever had a thought that wasn't a blatant fallacy?

>>7153817
wow i can do all of those things, and I also have a much much lower statistical probability of dying from a heart attack. if my webcam app worked, i'd show you a picture of myself, but you're not going to believe any of these things anways, so why bother?

>>7149429
Do vegans breastfeed?

>>7153850

Yeah

>>7153831
>wow i can do all of those things, and I also have a much much lower statistical probability of dying from a heart attack.

then you are good to go, as i said. As far as your statistical probabilities, i havent spent much time learning about long term heart attack probabilities, im not a cardiologist. I can tell you that if you can fit my health standards above, you are probably in the 'very low risk' category. But then again, most of the guys i know who have had heart attacks are runners, who do hundreds of miles a month worth of roadwork. guess running isnt healthy for you either.

>. A valid reason to believe things like grassfed butter, grassfed beef, and pasture raised eggs
butter beef and eggs provide protein your body needs in a complete form as well as a number of micro nutrients and minerals thats are not easily found or bioavailable in plant sources.

go to reddit if you want to have a mile long semantic arguement, im really not going to reply anymore to some asshat who needs peer reviewed cited journals to understand why eating an egg is good for you nutritionally.

One of us makes a full time living helping people lose weight, get healthy and prepare for physical competitions. the other one of us sits in a cube all day wiggling their fingers.

i mean, one last reply. its a goddamn egg. every mammal on the planet starts thier life in an egg using the nutrients in that egg. its hard for you to understand that perhaps, just maybe, that the thing that powered the engine to make things turn into a babies is good for you to eat nutritionally? i think i been trolled.

>>7153857
Aren't humans animals? Isn't human milk an animal product?

>>7153868
Humans can give consent. As far as I know, babies aren't forcibly taking milk from their own mothers.

>>7153862

>butter beef and eggs provide protein your body needs in a complete form as well as a number of micro nutrients and minerals thats are not easily found or bioavailable in plant sources

Again, the presence of vitamins and minerals, and even less-so protein, is not proper evidence to say that these things aren't harmful. Even on the nutrient side, the differences are small to begin with for grassfed versions.

>im really not going to reply anymore to some asshat who needs peer reviewed cited journals to understand why eatting an egg is good for you nutritionally

Pardon me for preferring to base my beliefs on science rather than just accepting whatever sounds nice in my head.

>>7153870
What about wet nurses? I assume they would be ok as they are compensated for their product, correct?

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>>7153867

>i mean, one last reply. its a goddamn egg. every mammal on the planet starts thier life in an egg using the nutrients in that egg

One fallacy after another. Why can't you just argue scientifically with data? "It's an egg, it's just good for you, it has nutrients" doesn't count as an argument

Pic related. Your arteries aren't a fan of eggs.

I'll be leaving too then. I've got some finger wiggling to do elsewhere.

It would really help if people wouldn't consume/produce animal products in such an excessive way.
there is no need to stop eating meat or dairy products entirely, but it got really out of hand nowadays.
For me, meat is special and considered a feast and there is no reason I need to eat it everyday or every week just because it is available all the time in this fucked up economy.
It's not that hard, and if you buy meat buy it from some small regional farm if you can.

>>7153870
>>7153870
Humans can't always give consent you shitlord!
I was drunk and sucked off my boyfriend, so therefore I couldn't consent to his semen. It was vegan rape!

>>7153745
I think it's just as futile. The same amount of shit they throw you at for being emphatic, they have it for claiming that it's more healthy (b12, vegans are skinny little weak pussies, they may not even care about health, etc).

I also prefer to believe most people just haven't made the connection on moral terms instead of thinking they are senseless machines that don't care.

>>7153868
Why are people this stupid? Like I can't make up if you are serious about this, just finding something to be "aha!!! Got you, vegans!!!", or what. It's not about animal products, it's the exploitation part that bothers most vegans. Mothers aren't exploited when they breastfeed their infants, but virtually all animal products contain torture. That's why animal products are not an option for vegans, not because of some arbitrary decision that says "all animal products are off limits".

>>7153944
>virtually all animal products contain torture. That's why animal products are not an option
That includes antivenin
Good luck with that snakebite

>>7153944
>not because of some arbitrary decision

Then why do vegans refuse things that are very low-impact (Honey, for example) yet seem to have no problem with things that are highly damaging to the environment (such as the battery and the chips in your smartphone or computer)? Sure sounds like an arbitrary standard to me. It would make more sense to restrict things based on "Harm" rather than "Animal product".

>>7153985
>>7154006

>aha!!! got you vegans!!

Just say what you want to say. Vegans are hypocrites. It's true.

But guess what? Every single person on this planet is a hypocrite. It's impossible to avoid hypocrisy 100% in this society unless you want to be a total outcast. Unlike most people, however, I'm not going to be a nihilist about it and use that as an excuse to not try an avoid hypocrisy when I can.

>>7153944
Define "torture"
If you refuse animal products because of excessive pain or discomfort in creation of animal products (meat, milk, eggs, hides), then why not hunt ethically yourself to provide the products you refuse otherwise?
Meat? Check
Hide? Check
Eggs you can forage from nature
Milk is harder, but just sub human milk since that is apparently ok due to consent.

>>7154036
Then the problem is murder. I will kill to survive, bottom line, but that's it. Right now, I don't need to kill or rely on other people to kill animals for me to survive.

>>7154052
You need to eat to survive don't you? I'm suggesting you cut out the middleman farmer and/or butcher and do it yourself.
By relying on other people to provide for you, you are closer to a child or slave than an educated adult capable of making rational choices.

>>7154078
You are a child for making this post when you very well recognize how stupid it is.

>>7153985
It's a good thing 1. I don't get bitten by a snake every day 2. Vegans tend to be more healthy and less prone to medicaments than the average person 3. There is a consensous that only in case like these (when it's literally the only choise to survive) that we would consume the product in question
>>7154006
>are very low-impact (Honey, for example)
Honey is a terrible example. Bees are pretty much fucked as much as cows becuase of honey production.
>have no problem with things that are highly damaging to the environment
Like >>7154035 said (though I object the use of the word hypocrite), nobody is 100% vegan, but someone who doesn't consume animal products vs somsone who does, and they both use smartphones... which one do you think is worse? This is a common discussion in vegan communities, and it's agreed that we try not to buy a cellphone every year, we must aim to buy ethically-produced cholocate, etc.

>>7154102
It's stupid to be self sufficient?
Lol you commie

>>7150878
do you have a link to recipe for that pls?

>>7154239
just read the fucking post
yes, of course you are closer to child slavery with every thing you do. and of course its ideal to grow your own crops. every vegan agrees with this, not everyone does it because its a million time harder to do that than just cutting out animal products. some do both cutting out animal products and grow their own shit. whats your point?

>>7153504
But you literally have no idea how any vegans in this thread eat.

>>7153768
Well, I'm vegetarian and squat and bench (for reps with good form) quite well over my body weight. Does that count for anything? Settle down man. There are plenty of strong people who don't eat meat.

>>7150752
Yeah, you need butter...which again is dairy and WHY THE FUCK CAN"T YOU VEGANS APPRECIATE DAIRY?

Why is it that every time veganism is brought up meat extremists always feel the need to butt in? Like literally none of the vegans I know give af, it's always the other side that gets all defensive and shit

Top jej all these people who het their education about their chosen diets from netflix documentaries

what's /ck/'s favorite non-meat flavored meat alternative? Personally mine is seitan and tofu since both are pretty cheap and flexible.

Didn't grow up eating meat so I never grew to like the taste, ended up falling back to vegetarian and later full vegan. Even then, I just don't like the idea of eating something trying to replicate the flavor of animal carcases, it's like vaping instead of smoking, better, but you're still too attached and could relapse.

>>7155493
Well I can't really eat soy, it causes me stomach discomfort. I made seitan once, but it didn't taste that good, I think I need to try cooking it in a better broth. But yea, I'm more into chick peas, lentils, dal etc. I do eat some dairy (lactose intolerant though) and eggs. Going full vegan with no soy is a bit too hard for me.

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>>7150737
>>7150735
>>7150714
>>7150770

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>>7151488
>1488

>>7151634
There is literally nothing wrong with global warming

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>>7152711

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I'm proud at all the vegans on /ck/. There used to be barely any vegans on here, but times are changing. We're taking over.

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>veganism

NOT EVEN ONCE. Mammalian suffering is ephemeral. Ruined earth is forever.

>>7154251
No link made it myself. Give me a few minutes to shower and then I will write it up.

>>7151534
Don't forget they are at greater risk for mental illness. But that one was obvious all along.

>>7156132

That's not true. Now post the pubmed links you didn't actually read and I'll explain what they say to you.

>>7155430
t-they are biased haha am i right guys, th-they just try to make me feel guilty looool haha stupid vegans... f-first world problems am i right ha..ha...

>>7153570

Saturated fat does not raise the risk of cardiovascular disease.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/91/3/535.short

Neither does dietary cholesterol.
http://www.sajcn.co.za/index.php/SAJCN/article/download/939/1256

Your entire argument is invalid.

>>7150800
I don't diss my friends if their vegan. It's just that vegans are known for pushing veganism on everybody they meet and judging them for eating meat. I know the same could be said for cigarettes and hooch, but you can always just tell them to fuck off as well.

most of you retards itt have no idea what you are talking about. why do you think you can read two articles on pubmed and are suddenly nutritionists? in some states, talking out of your ass about diets unless you are a licensed nutritionist

tate laws and/or regulations determine who can practice dietetics in a particular state. State licensure and state certification are entirely separate and distinct from registration or certification by the Commission on Dietetic Registration (CDR), the credentialing agency for the American Dietetic Association (ADA). Neither ADA nor CDR is a regulatory agency. Dietetics practitioners are licensed by states to ensure that only qualified, trained professional provide nutrition services or advice to individuals requiring or seeking nutrition care or information. Only state-licensed dietetics professionals can provide nutrition counseling.

>>7156231
>not overly defensive
Bi-polar much?

>>7157669
>nutritionist
that's something anyone can call themselves here. A registered dietitian on the other hand is another matter.

>>7151698
Same shit I make every day because I'm not a corporate consumer robot. I went out on black friday this year and didn't even know it until I saw all the people.

Curious about the lifestyle, but a lot of vegetarian/vegan meals I've had before tasted pretty bland and boring. I don't have meat every meal, or even every day, but I feel like food loses a lot of variety without it.

>>7157897
Try south asian cuisines. Lots of them are designed around vegetarians. Vegans not so much. Hakka and Thai are two other options where you might find some nice stuff.

Vegetarian here. I'm shopping for a new knife (pretty much anything new weill be an upgrade).

Do I really need a chef's knife/santoku or should I get a quality usuba/nakiri as my primary knife? I'm having trouble remembering what else I use my primary knife for other than chopping veggies, tofu and paneer. I also don't grip my current knife "the right way" as I've come to learn. Will a vegetable knife not be as effective in cutting stuff into smaller pieces like a chef's knife will be?

Of course, in the end I'll decide on what I like best after trying out a bunch of knives at a store; I'm just trying to gain some info.

/ck/ I'm a sick vegan what should I be eating?
I have a cold from stressful finals week.

>>7156950

>Saturated fat does not raise the risk of cardiovascular disease.

Yes it does.

>http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/91/3/535.short

Not that you even know how to interpret this study, but no, that meta-analysis, which was funded by the National Dairy Council, does not make a strong case for saturated fat. Here's two response letters sent in that explain the flaws of the study

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/2/458.long
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/91/3/497.full

>It is well established that saturated fat intake is associated with increased concentration of serum cholesterol (4), and that serum cholesterol concentrations are associated with CHD and CVD (5). Therefore, serum cholesterol concentrations lie on the causal chain between saturated fat intake and CHD and CVD and to adjust for serum cholesterol concentrations in a meta-analysis will obscure the effect of saturated fat intake on these health outcomes. Yet 7 of the 16 studies included in the meta-analysis of CHD events, and 4 of the 8 studies included in the meta-analysis of stroke events, were adjusted for serum cholesterol concentrations. These studies accounted for nearly half of all CHD and CVD events included in the meta-analyses (see Table 1). Adjustment for serum cholesterol concentrations will inevitably bias the estimates of effect of saturated fat intake toward the null hypothesis.

And here's an article where one of the authors of the study explains that his research doesn't mean to say that saturated fat isn't harmful

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/butter-is-not-back-limiting-saturated-fat-still-best-for-heart-health/

>“Our research does not exonerate saturated fat,” said Hu. “In terms of heart disease risk, saturated fat and refined carbohydrates appear to be similarly unhealthful.”

>Neither does dietary cholesterol.

Your link is just a debate paper with some Paleo diet wacko denying the lipid hypothesis

>>7158273

By the way, for anyone curious about that first paper claiming to find no link between saturated fat and heart disease, here's a video going through many of the studies used in the analysis in more detail than those reply letters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Tx9dCbv-g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wi9dzkTiU4

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>>7158154

Minestrone

>>7158145
I'd say a good nakiri will probably do you alright for the most part, but an inexpensive chef's or santoku doesn't hurt to have.

If you can hit up a restaurant supply store or an Asian market, look for knives there, as well as a sharpener. Regular sharpening can keep lower cost knives working well, and since you're not cutting meat, no need to spend a fortune on a knife. Surprisingly Asian grocery store knives have a decent heft to them and don't dull up right away like a cheap knife from Walmart might.

>people eat butter and lard all the time
>sugar companies come along
>hey guys fat causes heart disease :^)
>omfg low fat now!
>eat more sugar than ever
>more heart disease, diabetes, and obesity than ever before in the history of mankind
>hey go... guys, remember fat causes heart disease! :^)

>>7158412
people used to eat actually healthy parts of the animals largely, not lean cuts, not so much fatty cuts, but stuff like innards where the real nutrition was at. It's not just increased sugar but increasingly worse parts of the animals we're eating

>>7158415
What? In most cultures, aside from us Whites, the whole animal was used. Right down to drinking "fat tea."
Gtfo.

>>7158412
>documentary maker comes along
>promotes extremely simplistic view of history
>idiots lap it up because it conforms to their world view

>>7158410
By fortune do you mean above CDN$100 or $200? Because I was looking at the 100-200 (hopefully including tax) mark for my primary, and another 30-40 for a bread knife (don't think I need a third blade). What are some example uses where I might want to use a santoku instead of a nakiri?

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>>7158412

Yes, it's all a big conspiracy by the sugar industry. Grease and lard are totally innocent.

>>7151921
I wish

Is Veganism the biggest abomination to the culinary field?

>>7158273
>>7158294

this is screen cap worthy

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>>7150769
literally fucking this. It's not about being vegan, it's not about eating meat, it's about to many fucking people ruining the planet. In my city alone I see way to many whitetrash moms holding a toddler, pushing a baby, and being pregnant with another one. We really should limit how many kids you can have, at least in the US alone. That is killing the planet faster than anything else.

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>>7151069
>How is that? Are you telling me that recipes using a limitation on their ingredients don't taste as good as those without the specific imitations while attempting to imitate the flavor and texture of those non-limited foods? blah blah blah I'm a fucking retard

That's you. That's what you sound like. Please eat a shotgun.

>>7153448
Uh. How is excessive overeating linked to meat consumption?

I'm farily certain that almost all meat-eaters are not affected by overeating. Perhaps it's more a question of poverty/wealth and development in a nation.

I think it's you who needs to "learn to understand how this obscure mass in your head called [a] brain"

Don't shit a shitter. My job is reading scientific journals in Nature, Cell, Science and the like.

On a cold rainy night two African Americans break into your quaint split ranch. Being a socially conscious liberal vegan, you do not own firearms, so instead you grab your metal softball bat, from when you were in a rec league with the boys, to meet the threat head on.

Unfortunately for you Tyrone flavor blasts your right shoulder with his gat held at a 75 degree angle, commonly referred to as a "gangsta lean." You collapse into a pool of your own blood and can only lay there helplessly as you see Tyrone begin raiding your living room starting with you 50 inch flat screen. Jerome goes upstairs to corral your wife, daughter, and son. The tribesman forcefully shoves your family down the stairs. Your wife looks in horror as she sees the man she loves limp on the polished wood floor of the entryway.

Jerome remarks, “Dis hurr shawty got sum cake,” as he rips your wife’s silk pajama top off revealing her plump breasts. Your wife, Claire, looks at you in horror. Until she catches a glimpse of Jerome’s massive cock protruding from his sagging pants. Her eye’s are filled with lust and she begins salivating, and you can see a wet spot forming between her thighs. The two redguards begin spitroasting your wife in front of you and your kids. You can hear her moaning in pleasure, she's never had a dick that big you think to yourself. She screams in ecstasy as they pump her full of semen and switch places.

After they tire of using your wife as their cum dumpster they execute her, she was already on her knees how convenient, and turn their attention towards your daughter. They stuff her into a bag to be sold as a sex slave on the black market and cold cock your son. Which more than likely would cause brain damage leaving him a vegetable with no future.

Tyrone stands over you, the barrel of his Hi-Point 9mm pressed against your forehead. All you can muster to say is, "Damn n-niggers."

Eat meat, save your livelihood.

>>7158445
>>> >>7156677
I love how these people just come and dismiss years of investigation put into a documentary in one sentence.

>>7159189
>>7150769
You realize if everyone had that point of view, the planet would die in a matter of decades (which is were we're leading to)?
>n-no! i-i want MY ENTIRE pie! i don't want to give nobody no slices of mine!!!
>>7159329
>attempting to imitate the flavor and texture
1. it's not an imitation 2. even if it is, the notion that it can't be better than the real deal is ridiculous

>>7160089
>You realize if everyone had that point of view
They don't. When you get off of your computer that isn't necessary for your survival and is made up of energy expensive and non-renewable components what you say will have some merit, right now you're just condemning something that you don't enjoy for something that is true of nearly everything you do enjoy and permeates every aspect of your existence.

>>7153448
The study this article was written about links obesity causing overeating behaviors and food addictions in lab rats to access to high fat, high sugar foods, speculating a causation to said addictive behaviors being a combination of environment and genetics. The sweet spot addictive combo is fat + sugar. Nothing to do with protein, or animal protein. Did we read the same article?

>>7150785
hitler was high for pretty much the entire last 3 years he was in charge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Morell

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>>7152896
Why would I?
Meat isn't good for health, if it was brainless corpses wouldn't it still be bad for health? Disgusting-ness aside, you aren't removing it that way.

Cricket-burgers, there's still no reason at all to eat it, and I doubt it's healthy for humans.
I'd prefer not to have a ridiculous spike in protein, and also I always hated burgers, so I'm sure cricket-burgers wouldn't be great either.

>>7153000
There's literally no need for humans to worry about protein though.
If you don't eat just one or two fruits all day and you get enough calories, you'll get enough protein. I'll often get 100g/day with balanced aminos every day. All I eat is fruits, vegetables (not as many as I should), copious amounts of bread types depending on the meals, pasta, and potatoes if you don't count that as a vegetable.
Who fucking cares if it's an efficient way to get protein when unless we're starting a cricket-farm in space while still being baboon-tier technology, then it's meaningless.

>>7152842
If you want chicken-flavor, Gardein chicken sliders & seven-grain are similar I guess and taste better than any frozen chicken I've ever had, and I was a shitty child who ate lots of it, all the brands I tried.
The beyond meat chicken tasted like tires and poultry seasoning to me. That being said, gardein ones have a crust, I'll be trying their "grilled" sometime though myself I suppose.

>>7152843
>>7152863
I do feel something in my body, and not some "ewww" feeling, although I may have that now though I can't be sure.
But I feel sluggish and tired afterward, greasy (even if it wasn't fried) at my pores and all around, and just generally "bleh."
I'm not sure what it is, because biologically I can't single it out. It reduced when I moved from grilled chicken from fried chicken, then it's vanished (unless I eat extremely high fat and 2000kcal meal) since I went vegan, even when eating 1200kcal of baked potatoes, 400kcal of corn or vegetable of some sort, and somethin' else.

>>7160118
>They don't.
They do. Did you realize I was talking about people who DO NOT WANT TO BE VEGAN when I said "that point of view"? Did you even fucking read what I wrote or just jump into me with a weak argument that has been refuted 999999 times already in these threads? YES, nobody can be 100% vegan, but the damage done by using a computer, or buying clothes from unknown sources, is way less affecting than the overwhelming effect of animal agriculture (ethical, environment, -arguably- health).
>not necessary for your survival
Don't be retarded. You need one in today's society. To live the comfortable life everyone aspires to, that is. With veganism you don't have to give up any comfort. You are making it out to be like it's a black or white choice, all or nothing, and not a spectrum.

Fucking retard.

>>7161062
By using and purchasing modern electronic devices such as cell phones, tablets, computers and televisions you are complicit in the murder of millions of human beings in Congo who are forced to mine tantalum for capacitor production. How does this scale on your ethical hierarchy? How about the issue of human rights violations in the produce agriculture industry and its disproportionate use of fossil fuels for shipping very long distances to reach market in the Western world? How about the issue of potable water exportation through produce from impoverished countries to wealthy ones? Please tell me how being a vegan makes you a better person with a lesser negative global impact on the environment and other human beings.

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what do you think of my boost?

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>>7161495
You need to try the vegan Tikka Masala from Trader Joe

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>>7161495
Also the tofurky pizza (Italian sausage is the best)