Lolita: Too petty? Or not petty enough?

Oldfag here

my issue with the lolita community is the twofaced-ness of it.
some comms could have some party city wigged girl show up, and shower her in compliments, tell her she's kawaii, loved her dress, then make secrets about her being ita the same night..

the fake-bubbly "your so lovely" to peoples faces freaked me out when i first joined. Honestly, when I first started myself, if someone told me concrit (not just criticism) (nicely) to my face rather than making secrets about me, I would have improved a lot quicker. But the fact everyone was fake nice to my face made me feel like the lolitas online were just "mean bullies!1!" and I can definitely see that in a lot of other itas. however, feel free to roast any bitch who laughs and ignores your nice and positive concrit, that's fair game.

of course, not every comm is the same, some comms are full of sandy chans, other comms full of itas.. so this just approaches this fake-nice thing I've been seeing in a few comms.

>>9529891
I get this.

I personally think that public meets/meets for the whole comm aren't ever the place for unsolicited concrit. But I wish people wouldn't be so shitty about private meets. I know my comm would flip shit if I had a private birthday party for me and only invited my lolita friends, who all happen to be above average dressers.

My newest comm is small and I'm fairly glad for it. There's less chance for drama. We're pretty close knit and usually avoid sensitive topics just because that's more comfortable for all of us, no matter our opinions.

My comm may not be the biggest or own the most burando but we aren't catty towards each other and I'm happy about that. The last comm I was in was full of burando bitches or ita bitches with some nice girls in brand and taobao strewn in between.

But I feel like over all, the general lolita culture has become very petty. Also, the refusal to let go of things and realize that people make mistakes is kind of horrifying. No lolita has gone their entire life without fucking up. It just happens.

Regarding specifically /cgl/, It's annoyingly petty and salty. I love drama as much as the rest of us, but the thread derailing is nauseating. The fatty, ageplay, and replica comments keep derailing decent threads with good information or comments. They're usually just baseless and thrown around to the point of being cringe memes now.

Also, I hate the stupid meme in your picture. It's so newfag to me. Every new /cgl/ girl loves wanting to be the bad bitch and just shitting up threads with stupid comments like "uwu I'm cute you fatty" and it shows how bad summer is. You shouldn't have to "be nice" because we're in the same fashion, but I do expect you to not be an infant and able to carry on a conversation without the oldest baits and vendettas.

I loathed the whole drama between Girlyhoot and Chokelate here and wish that'd been moderated better, but it seems like it purposefully wasn't, despite the "singling out" rule. I just loathed having to hear Chokelate's tribe pit themselves against Kate's every fucking CoF thread. I'm glad both of them are washed up.

I really enjoy scamming related drama which absolutely needs to be called out. The Leigh's was fun because it was so close to brands and celebs, but also about scamming and crossover into their local anime cons. I love "brolita" sissies that get shown to be the pedophiles they are. Maybe my favorite is anything relating to direct Brand drama in general and/or Chinese drama because we're so untouched by it so we can just observe. Baby, the end of Sana, and the showdown with Chinese lolitas was amazing.

>>9529862
In regard to the online comm (and maybe comms in general), I think that things are being ruined by new lolitas who try to overcompensate for their newness by being overly salty. I've noticed that all of the lolitas I've talked to who've seriously been in the game for 5+ years are considerably more mature and less drama hungry, at least publicly. Part of it definitely has to do with age, but I also attribute it to the know-it-all attitude that plagues new lolitas.

I've had the (dis)pleasure of talking to new lolitas from their late teens to their mid twenties and most of them share the "YAAAAAS SALT QUEEN SLAY IT GIRL!!" attitude. It's grating and is an obvious attempt to make up for their mediocre coordinates and lack of standing in the community. The people who talk the most shit in this community seem to be the worst dressers.

I'm tired of people screaming about how bad a lolita is based on something so pointless and arbitrary. I think actual bad people should be called out like scammers and irl bullies. Just because you don't like fat people or people who you think are attention whores doesn't mean that those said people are the scum of the earth. If some lolita is more public about their lives on the internet and it triggers you, don't fucking come on /cgl/ and bitch about them like they killed your whole family. Especially in CoF threads where people are there to make concrit. Stop derailing threads because some lolita said something special snowflaky and expect other users to be just as disgusted. If you want to be a sandy vagina, go to lolcow with all the other salty chans.

Honestly I wish we could be nicer online and a bit meaner irl. My comm gets some of the worst itas I've ever seen but Mana forbid you ever attempt to tell them that they could improve. We had a girl show up in a slip dress for ild and to be honest I felt almost personally insulted. I don't want my comm to be super shady but I wish we could collectively agree to tell it like it is in as nice a way as possible. I think, as a whole, if lolitas felt more comfortable with irl concrit, the online community wouldn't feel the need to release all that pent up negativity.

>>9529862
>How do you feel about your local comm?
At first I hated them but we have new mods now and they try
>Is polite but honest concrit given to itas at meets or is it considered bullying to tell someone their cosplay wig doesn't work with lolita?
That's never a polite thing to do. Don't comment on how people look unless it's positive or your friends or family or something.
How does your comm deal with itas and newbies, and how do you wish it would?
They give concrit on facebook.

>>9530105
In that case you just say it's a lolita meet and she's not wearing lolita

>>9530003
I've noticed that with commenters on rufflechat. I imagine gulls dress even worse.

>>9529891
>>9530105
This! My comm is all sugary sweet uwu lovlies IRL and on Facebook and then people turn around and bitch about the itas and annoying people here and on BtB. The mods especially are super passive IRL and don't do shit but then come here to vent, or in at least one case talk shit about members quietly amongst themselves (I have good hearing bitch I heard you) less than a minute after complimenting the girl like some scene out of Mean Girls. That's not how you get anyone to improve either their dress sense or their behaviour. Of course there are people who cry like babies if you tell them their Miku wig isn't appropriate for lolita but if you don't tell them they don't learn, and if they're so thin skinned they take that as a personal attack and leave, good riddance. Comments on your coord aren't comments on how you are as a person. If you can't take even polite crit on your outfit in a fashion hobby, you might want to find another hobby.

>>9530003
My comm is full of these self-appointed seagull memelords, too. They'll make a big fuss about how they're not lovlies and they swear and drink and scratch their ass in public and are full of salt, but when confronted with a clueless ita they'll still gush over how kawaii she is only to turn around to talk shit about how gross she is to each other and online. One girl in particular has a really recognisable writing style so it's easy to pick out the nasty secrets and anon comments she makes and compare them to how she acts in person. They all complain about the two-facedness too, but don't seem to realise that for all their bad bitch posturing they're just as bad. They're all SLAYY BITCH until someone doesn't like an aspect of their latest coord and then they sulk on FB about jelly haters exactly like the people they mock on here.

>>9529862
ot but what differentiates a lolita wig from a cosplay wig besides quality? I have been buying wigs for my cosplays for years and then I bought a couple lolita wigs expecting them to be something amazing but quality is "okay" at most and I have better quality cosplay wigs honestly...

>>9530247
Nothing it's just that a lot of lolitas who started to wear it because of con's /cosplay wear the shittiest wigs. They probably weren't good at cosplay and bought their wig at a con.

>>9530247
It's not necessarily the quality but more about the style and color. A pink pigtail wig can be cute for lolita, but an obvious Madoka wig isn't. Most offenders for this usually just take the wig out of the bag and put it on. If styled well a wig made for cosplay could easily become a lolita wig.

In my comm you regularly have admins policing people's language if it isn't gender neutral enough. Some girl was trying to sell her shoes and posted "any ladies interested in buying some heels?" and an admin immediately jumped in with "NOT EVERYONE WHO WEARS HEELS IS A WOMAN PLEASE CHANGE YOUR POST"

What the actual factual fuck.

>>9530390
Do you have screencaps?

Honestly I think it's more about not having the guts to tell someone they aren't wearing lolita in person rather than it being a taboo. On FB it'd be nice if there could be more honesty about bad coords.

My comm is pretty awesome and I feel really lucky that my area has such a great one. I'm not best friends with everyone, but I'm in good rapport with most if not everyone I've met at meets and I have a solid group of good friends from it. Most people in the comm are pretty well-dressed; rarely do we ever have anyone who is screamingly ita, although we've had a few. Doesn't seem like there's any dramamongers either though I know a few of us browse cgl.

At meets people often don't give honest concrit and IMO I think it's for the better - I'm in an american comm and like...being that honest to someone's face about how they look just is a social faux pas in general in this country; most people are too scared to do it and most people wouldn't take it well and to most people it's just really rude. I'm under the impression that, unless someone asks, just let people have a good time at the meet. However, some itas and n00bs do ask for help in the FB group and people are generally very honest if something doesn't work or look good. In my comm the general attitude is "don't give concrit unless asked or good friends", which is reasonable I think. Since people *are* pretty well dressed I think any noobs/itas learn quickly or don't attend meets as much anyways.

>>9529989
I agree with all of this post.
You bitches need to chill

>>9530247
I think what really makes the difference for me is the styles and colors. A lot of lolita specific wigs have color blends that are a little more natural whereas to me, certain cosplay wigs like Arda have colors that look super vibrant like an anime character's hair. On top of that, just the style - a lot of cosplay wigs are either pre-styled to look like a specific character, or they aren't and are made to be cut and styled to how the person needs it. Cosplay wigs have gotten a bad rep because noobs and itas will try to use like, a Madoka wig for their sweet coord or will get an unstyled wavy wig and just push the bangs out of the way and wear it right out of the bag. Although the bangs usually need to be styled most of the lolita wigs I've purchased have ready to wear, appropriately feminine hair styles for lolita.

You need to be catty sometimes to raise the level of quality
Fat cows that can't put together a decent outfit absolutely need to be shamed into being better, otherwise the bring the perception of all of us down

>>9529989
There were so many annoying petty, retarded, pointless posts here a few months ago I had to take a break and stopped coming onto cgl. It was like summer came early or something. The crowd has definitely changed over the past few years, I think recently it seems like there's been an influx of perhaps newbies really trying to prove their worth to themselves by engaging in some of the bullshit. I love getting salty on here but some people are just fuckwits about it.

I think what hasn't helped is it seems like there's a lot of cosplayers and non-lolitas participating in the lolita threads, either trying to get in on stuff because they think they know whats going on, or purposely stirring shit up for fun. I remember in a coord help thread a while back someone tried to give coord help but admitted they weren't a lolita, and when I called them out (saying they shouldn't be giving advice) they got in a hissy fit.

>>9531064
Midwest? I'm curious if this is my comm, it sounds spot on.

>>9531187
East coast, but glad to know there are other chill comms out there! Before I started attending meets regularly I only knew what I read on cgl so I always worried about having a really bitchy, ita, or drama-filled comm.

>>9530247
Aside from the other posts made, a lot of Chinese cosplay wigs will have this flat color, say, all yellow-blonde and it will have a sort of dull plastic sheen to it. This happens a lot with ebay wigs and it bugs the shit out of me as both a lolita who wears wigs and someone who takes great pride in styling cosplay wigs.

It's not that you can't buy a wig from a cosplay shop or ebay. But you do have to take time to, a) trim the bangs b) basic upkeep c) store it properly d) de-sheen it if that's a problem. A generic cosplay wig can be used well in lolita but it might take some clever work to make it look right and more natural. Personally, I prefer ones that have a blend of fibers rather than just one color. Granted, most of my lolita wigs come from lolita-specific sources and few of them are from places like Arda.

I'll color the shit out of my cosplay wigs to give them a lot of color variation as well. But I feel less bad when copics touch a costume than on my brand.

>>9529989
Been on this board since it's been around, but more often since I got into lolita 5 years ago. I feel like while /cgl/ can be great for discussion, news, chit chat, tutorials, sources for cool shit, haul sharing, etc. I feel like in the last few years everyone is so damn tryhard edgy-desu. You can instantly tell a newbie from a seasoned veteran just by their commentary.

I think a huge reason why we just don't see as much daily coordinate sharing and more ott/costumey coordinates (which I have no problem with, but there is a time in place for everything) is because of the constant incessant nit-picking.

For me, I never share coords because sometimes I just feel like wearing my stuff and having a good time. I don't need or want to be nitpicked into improving. I kind of know by now what items I could use to improve something or if something just isn't fitting right. I don't care about concrit anymore. It's not even just looking to improve and be the very best lolita I can possibly be. I just don't care anymore. I'm out hanging with some friends doing some shopping and getting some boozy shakes or some shit afterward. Who cares if my shoes are slightly the wrong shade of pink compared to the pink little bow on my wristcuff.

Like, it's a dress that you can coordinate any number of ways and constantly improve upon it. A little feedback or concrit is fine and dandy. Who wouldn't at least get some ideas for wearing it differently next time? But I've never liked seeing post after post ripped from cof just to add more (usually stupid) commentary because they are too chicken-shit to say it off anon on facebook. Grow a pair or don't say it, cause chances are, you are not better or you're an armchair lolita with some Amazon/etsy hybrid in your closet that you wear to cons.

Not to mention the gratuitous ass-patting and ego stroking that likes/Facebook gives someone. Just kinda makes the online aspect of the community something I haven't wanted to partake much in.

>>9531238
>constant incessant nit-picking
this. some of it can be warranted but I HATE how people act so dramatic like a coord is just ~r u i n e d~ because some bitch wore gold shoes instead of navy. some gulls seem to believe that people have access to every item in every color and style. it's a street fashion, we're all real people, I can give certain things a pass, I'm not gonna be buttblasted that someone isn't photoshoot-ready and they wore plain tights instead of trying to find perfectly matching patterned OTK's.

Based off my own personal experience as someone who has been a lolita for a few years now, I feel like the newer you are, the more inclined you are to be nitpicky like that. From the older lolitas I know I feel like most of them are pretty chill, whereas I know when I was new I worried a lot about being perfectly matching and would feel like my coord was just awful if it wasn't. Obviously I still try to coordinate as well as possible and stay conscious of color family, etc but I'm not as bound up these days over not having perfectly matching everything.

1. People pretend to be your friend to post you on cgl.
2. Too many men!!!!! Of course the kinda look better. They have no fat and more money! Plus they get so catty. Im tried of jeffree star!
3. Some people who give concrit shouldnt.

Sometimes too much sometimes not enough given the amount of SJWs still present.