UNPOPULAR OPINIONS: Photographer Edition

without cosplayers there is no cosplay community
there is no cosplay

Photogs throwing a fit about getting paid for their HOBBY has caused every idiot with a point and click to start charging for photos, causing massive price inflation among the untalented.

inb4 I MAKE TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS AN HOUR FOR EVERY WEDDING

go do more of those then

>>9284670
Came here to post literally this same thing.

>>9284605
>photographers are more valuable than cosplayers in the cosplay community
>cosplay community
>????

this has to be bait. no one is this stupid.

>>9284646
>>9284670
>>9284677
>>9284695

Cosplayers who do it for more than just to wear out in the street need photographers.

Our photos last forever. Most times your costumes don't even last the fucking day. Magazines aren't going to publish your fucking selfies. Thirsty weebs ain't gonna buy prints of cellphone pics (then again...). We make you ACTUALLY look like the people you cosplay. We smooth your fat rolls, get rid of your acne, make your eyes and hands glow, and put you in the world of your fandom. How dare you get mad that we wanna be paid for all we do for y'all?

>>9284605
#MakeFelixWongGreatAgain

>>9284670
thank god I don't live in the east coast
then again California/west coast seems to be an anomaly

>>9284737
Because until recently, you didn't get paid. Basically every photoshoot I ever did was a trade deal. I get nice photos, and you get something to add to your portfolio. What do I have to gain by paying you 100 for a photoshoot? I don't plan on being famous. On top of that, what photographer charges models who come equipped with their own makeup, costumes, and props.

>>9284605
Majority of the photographers just need to step the fuck off and chill. I see so many fauxtographers asking and charging for paid shoots while these fucks are still learning how to use their fucking cameras. Then you have the cheap asses charging $5 to $40 for a shoot for shit photos crashing the fucking market. Either charge high or don't charge at all. So many of these photographers suck when you see their before and afters. Oh you found the Saturation button. Good job bro! Just look at the desperation in the fucking Katsucon group by the majority of talentless fucks.

>>9284836
and is fucking everyone doing boudoir shoots now. What the hell!

>>9284828
You want photos, I want money.

For a cosplay photographer who already has a strong portfolio (whatever a fucking cosplay portfolio is worth, probably fuck all), I gain nothing by shooting people I don't want to shoot. But, cosplayers who like the way I take pictures should pay me for my time and experties

>>9284836
THIS.

>>9284837
AND ALSO THIS.

Fuck these shitty photographers, and fuck the people who keep paying them to churn out badly lit, badly composed, boring garbage

>>9284836
There are people offering services for $5-10. What's the fucking point at that price? Just do it free.

>>9284919
Yup! Just look at the fucks desperately commenting on every post for the Katsucon and Magfest groups on Facebook.

https://supload.com/BkCAqnqme

>>9284961

I know some photographers who say they charge a tiny fee to make sure cosplayers don't bail on them.

Doesn't work, but at least some extra cash, eh?

>>9284961
The worst thing about some of those photogs is when they comment on the cosplayer's post saying they're interested in shooting, and then after the cosplayer responds, the photog tries to charge them/shill their prices. They're the one expressing interest in the cosplayer, not the other way around. It's rude as fuck to tell someone "Oh I want to work with you!" and then follow it up with "my rates are $50 an hour." If the cosplayer wanted to pay for the shitty photos (which are inevitably shitty, because all the good photogs don't need to shill their prices by bait and switching), they would've commented on the many posts advertising.

>>9284737
My friends (cosplayers) and I share a camera and we all take our own pics, so, no need for professional photographers. Our pics tend to be shared on Cosmode (magazine) on a regular basis, so, no big deal.

I won't be sharing our pics, of course, but you can check Calssara, that used to do the same for a loong time (and up until today).

There's no need to smooth my fat rolls because I don't have them, neither there's the need to get rid of my acne, since my makeup does it.

Most of us don't want to be placed in the fandom world, we just want to dress up, go to conventions, take some pics with friends to keep as memories and that's it.

Sorry for your miserable life if you need to bring this kind of discussion so as to make your shitty job have a meaning.

I don't understand the ire about photographers and their prices. If shitty photogs are charging $15 for a shitty photo shoot, they'll get business and cosplayers will get crappy photos for cheap. If shitty photogs charge $100 for a shitty photo shoot, they won't get any business. If good photogs charge $100 for a great photo shoot, they'll get fewer customers but the customers will be the serious ones who want a good product. Is that not how the market works?

>>9284670
FUCK YES NIGGA I love you. you have said what I rant about. This is a hobby . I love my hobby but fuck every damn untalented fuck charging. I am not the best by any means but when I go out to the Midwest to hang out with my midwestern bros (my midwest people I love them) I see some fucks charge who have no talent, and while people buy it, its like "you are the cancer killing photography because you promote an arms race, and you... ugh. IT bothers me.

>>9285104
See that is understandable at least. Its more of a "We charge your card to prove you are a human/ 1 dollar minor charge. I don't mind that at all,
and if everyone just did that I wouldn't be as borderline autistic reee for that.

>>9284837
every thot wants them so you have to follow the market. i don't even get it but it can't be helped to use the tired nihonism.

>>9285151
>is that not how the market works?
yes and no. at a very basic level it is, but an influx of photographers charging very low, regardless of skill level, sets up the expectation that ALL photography should be cheap.

there's the same issue with art right now. cheap, casual artist charge $20-40 for a comission where a real artist will charge $500+. then people get pissy when they don't understand the disparity and refuse to pay those prices. what people don't get is that the first artists is doing art as a /hobby/ and is basically charging pocket change per hour for their work because it's mostly for fun and they don't expect to live off of it. professional artists on the other hand devote their life to their art in order to be at that skill level and thus charge real wages for the hours they put in.

it's not a matter of waiting for the magical invisible hand to correct markets, you also have to factor in human stupidity

>>9285165
This is a good explanation, thank you. In that case, what's the best way to correct the price disparity? Asking bad photographers to raise their prices isn't fair, nor is asking good photographers to lower theirs. Or do we just put more effort into letting consumers know "you get what you pay for, don't expect top notch photos from a $15 shoot"?

>>9285181
I tend to lean toward the education route. Just letting people know that a hobbist =/= a professional when you can is really all you can do.

>>9284837
i fucking hate the "cosplay boudoir" shoots that have become trendy.

>>9285165

A real professional artist charges 500 dollars for portraits, sure....

And a real fucking model charges, and a real seamstress providing theater quality ballgowns charge, and makeup artists fucking charge. Good cosplayers show up with all of that done, for free, because they love the hobby, and then photogs bitch and scream they aren't getting market rates.

If you're some normie who's just in it for cash and doesn't give a fuck about the hobby, you should get out of the damn hobby. If you love the shit, deal with the fact that it's a hobby and should be done for love and affection of the subject matter. Nobody's telling you you have to photograph fab fujos from some series you don't care about - which you don't anyway, right now, even if they do pay you.

Everybody agrees patreon lewdz and poser fake geeks are ruining the cosplay side of the convention world but photogs are doing it too.

I can see both sides of the argument. I've always been willing to pay more for photos because I want them to be nice quality/I want to see how my work has progressed. However, the market is definitely oversaturated with 'photographers' that think owning a nice camera makes them the best there is. People should be smarter about it but all they care about is getting the cheapest price. I don't think that the cosplay community would die without photographers because there will ALWAYS be someone willing to do the work for cheap/free. I say just suck it up and realize that's how any artistic field is and either do it because it's fun or start photographing at places where you'll earn money.

>>9285199
Good post.

Charging is fine. If your work is in demand then cool, same with cosplayers doing comissions. But it is a hobby that some people made into a business, not the other way around. It's like people going into youtube for the fame.

>>9284605
We didn't have photographers in the early 00s (in my country at least), but we had cosplayers who took pictures with their own camera, and visitors who made pictures of cosplayers. So technically, the cosplay community can survive without photographers, but not the other way around.

>>9285165
ALSO, the average cosplayer DOESN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE between a good shot and a bad one. They think every shot with them in it is good, so they call these terrible photographers "great" and "amazing", further reinforcing the cycle and the bad photographers' egos.

Take gels for instance. Now cosplayers won't even look at a picture unless all four corners of the image have different colors. It's fucking maddening.

>>9284737
Yeah except we've had a cosplay community all the way back to the 50s. This was before you had a bunch of photographers walking around.

The cosplay photographer is a modern byproduct. We were here before you guys and we will still be here even if you all leave.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the modelling communities, don't photographers often compensate their models if it's something they want to photograph? Be it money, or photos? Models get paid somehow. And I know there's all kind of portfolio trade for the photographer and the model at the very least. Why isn't it the same in the cosplay world?

>>9285194
I love shooting boudoir, and I'm sorry you don't like it.

>>9285199
>And a real fucking model charges, and a real seamstress providing theater quality ballgowns charge, and makeup artists fucking charge.

Ok, let's tear this nonsensical shit apart. First of all, how many cosplayers are model-caliber? Not these fuck-ass Facebook or Instagram models, real agency / magazine / campaign-quality models? DAMN NEAR NONE. Real models can charge because they have a look that can sell product. Fuck out of here with these 5'2", 156 pound acne-faced fucks trying to compare themselves to professional models.

Same thing goes for that "theater quality ballgowns" and makeup shit. The only time I saw that was at Katsucon. The rest of the cons this year, I saw nothing coming close to even that standard. Stop the nonsense.

However, I see lots of really good photographers who put up with way more shit than they'd ever take off a real model, spend hours shooting and stroking cosplayers' egoes, then more hours editing and compositing, produce a superior product, and get shit on. It's not right.

>>9285292
but why are they even doing it? why wouldn't they just go and shoot weddings or corporate events if it's such a pain and they are so good?

>>9285292
Then don't shoot who you don't want to shoot? It's pretty fucking simple. Honestly, most of the better cosplayers don't pay a dime for shoots, even now.

>>9285307

For real, don't cry about how horrible cosplayers are to work with and how much you hate it and how much money you're giving up when you can book a bunch of portrait sessions with people's ugly infants that week and not deal with any of it. The crocodile tears are ridiculous.

>>9285307
>>9285315
>>9285316

That's just the point that anon is making though. They put up with all that shit because they really do like cosplay (or at least want to make friends with half-naked girls). But, to say they don't deserve any money for what they do is super disrespectful. If there was a cosplayer that had an amazing look, I might even pay her for a shoot. I don't think cosplayers shouldn't be paid for their work. Cosplayers are ALREADY not being charged market rates. Now you want photos for free? Most of you don't even bother making friends with the photogs who take your pics. Bottum line, if it's someone I wouldn't normally shoot, that wants my style of photography, then I should be paid.

>>9285326
They don't deserve shit because as cosplayers, we don't "deserve" anything either. I would argue that cosplayers or at least serious ones, spend way more money on costumes then photogs do with equipment. Until 5 years ago, paid photographers were practically non existent.

More like Photoshop is more valuable than cosplayers and photographers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j656_RiO0k

>>9285292
And how many cosplay photographers have actually shot for magazines/big brands/campaigns? I think having a professional portfolio counts for both sides in that regards.

That said, I'm genuinely curious about your portfolio.

>>9285326
That would totally depend on their portfolio and if they are better than my photographer friends who don't charge.

>>9285367
I've shot for regional magazines and model agencies. BY NO MEANS did I mean to say that the majority of cosplay photographers have that much skill (or gear) to produce that caliber of work.

But the ones that do should get that respect.

>>9285256
and now you have shit photographers charging by how many lights they use or how many poses you get

>>9285286
Assuming you're shooting real boudoir instead of sexy/slutty cosplayer nude or in lingerie

>>9285350
It's a fake, and you fell for it. Just go.

>>9285367
Real magazines for those fake ass ones that publish on Magcloud and shit LOL

>>9285384
Fair enough, I can agree on that.

But I think that charging is something that depends on how professional you are in that sense, rather than what you do (photography or cosplay). Or maybe just rather: how much the other person wants to work with you as oppose to you wanting to work with them.

>>9285119
ngl having a subject that doesn't look like ass is 90% of good cosplay photography. cosplay photography is shallow as fuck and i wouldn't have it any other way.

>>9285402
lol yeah I meant real magazines for sure. As in, the ones that get printed and sold for money. I've modeled for real magazines too, so I think that should be a minimum then (at least for them to be on my level).

>>9285272
the cosplay world is more like vanity book publishing, while models are more like the authors who charge publishers (photogs) for their work.

>>9284796
stop self posting, felix

>>9285398
who charges per light? that's fucked up

>>9285384
hi eugene.

>>9284605
>have been doing event photography for years (car shows, sporting, local culture events)
>worked under a person who did portrait photography for 2 years
>cant get into cosplay photography at anime cons because the amount of shit those photographers get

feels bad

>>9285560
#same

the only way to do it bullshit-free is to do it for free.

But photography is my main source of income. I shoulda been a DJ.

I seriously think that shorter guys trying to cosplay taller characters look absolutely ridiculous.

If you're going to cosplay, stick to your height range. Sorry, but you just can't be Alucard, sweetie.

>>9285384
Hi Eugene your photos suck

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>>9285536
older ad but yeah

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>>9285384
Name drop enough Eugene?

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A big thing now is official con photographers and press photographers charging people for photos too

>>9285726
if they are doing it in an area where you don't need a badge i don't see a problem
if they are doing it where you do need one that's a problem for the con to deal with

>>9284605
ok Martin Wong.

>>9284605
I'm coming in off the home page and avoid /cgl/ like the fucking plague, and even I know this is probably the least accurate statement currently existing on 4chan.

People have been cosplaying for decades. Photographers trying to scalp people and paid cosplaying has been a thing for less than 20 years.

>>9284605
People cosplay without photographers around. Hell, some of the best costumes I've ever seen have been 1-man projects that have never ended up in a publication or on a stage.

The reality is that professional photographers are there as a secondary industry, likely in the same tier as 'professional' cosplayers like Jnig and company. The average schmuck at a con does not and will not care about the 'cosplay community,' if they're aware that a greater community even exists in the first place.

>>9285831
Try less then 8

>>9285560

How to you apply for car shows?

>>9285724
I mean, why not name drop? niggaz need ta recognize.

>>9284695
That was also my immediate response.
That and it sounds like this photog I've seen post similar dumb shit on Facebook.

>>9284850
If you use photoshop and it doesn't look like shit then I'll pay, but its so rare to find someone who is ACTUALLY good with photoshop, plans out a nice scene for the shoot and works together with the cosplay for the best pictures.

If you think I'll pay you for a con shoot you are dumb as shit.

>>9284670
I think that when you are planning on selling your prints or make you make money out of cosplaying. You have no right to ask the photographer to work for free.

>>9285875
the easiest way to get into anything is to have something you're shooting for. contact local newspapers, online websites, etc and ask if they'd like coverage in exchange for getting you access. then you can take your letter from the editor or what have you and ask the car show/other event for a badge. alternatively you offer your services to people who are going to be exhibiting at the car show and have them get you into the show. maybe they do a badge merry go round to get you inside or whatever.

>>9285726
I assist on wayy too many con staff. Thank you for this. We do ban people for this because a press pass is not a way to make money. Please report this. Thanks again.

>>9285119
pretty much this. most of us have good makeup and shoops skills, we don't need to shell out a bunch of money just to have someone else supposedly make us look better.

>Most of us don't want to be placed in the fandom world
also this, the people that photographers are getting paid to shoot are those who are specifically seeking a long lasting fanbase for their cosplay. The rest of the cosplay community isn't going to pay for that if it's not their goal to get the extra attention

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Mini photog story time
>at anime expo 2016
>I brought my camera, but I was in full Kaga cosplay so it's impossible for me to actually use
>boyfriend takes pictures for a bit, but then we put it up
>see the area that has the mini stages or whatever you can take pics in
>there's a heart one
>think it'd be cute photo of me and my boyfriend, nothing fancy, were both in cosplay; just something cute
>ask a guy standing there if he could take a picture of us using my iPhone 6 Plus
>he's wearing a black pine stripe vest, burgundy button down and black slacks
>don't remember if he was actually wearing a fedora or not, just remembered he look like he would
>he goes "even better! I'll use my professional camera to take one of you guys!"
>I'm a mini photography buff, he just has a canon rebel ti with a giant flash attached
>>attached a giant flash indoors
Anyways
>I use a nikon Df, that way I can do everything manual and I love it
>you could tell guy probably set it to automatic because he pretty much just snapped the photo
>shows me
>it's literally shit, that type of photo that's super bright and high iso
>say "t-thanks"
>says he'll email it to me, takes my email, literally never emails me the photo.
>upset because I just wanted a cute photo of me and my bf, never got one of us at the convention

I find this happening increasingly often, where a photographer will kiss your ass so hard like "Oh my god!! You have THE BEST LINEUP and ALL MY FAVORITE CHARACTERS. I would literally DIE to shoot with you!! Do you have time for me at __Con??"
And the second you go 'sure I'd love to shoot!', they do a complete 180 like "Oh cool, well PM me for my rates and I send you some time slots, I only have a few left tho"

>>9285726
>>9286123

Salty cunts alert. Get that sand out of your vagina before you post here.

So, because you gave a press pass, we can't charge for photos? What if they sell the photos they take after the con is over (which they do, if they're employed by a newspaper / magazine / website, etc)?

You and your rules are stupid.

>>9286153
Should have booked a photographer. Lol @ your life now.

>>9286219
It's called marketing, my G. Look it up sometime. And also, I don't know if you heard, but not everyone who says things means them all the time. Just a heads up.

>>9286279
Oh my god, you mad? I'm sorry people don't want to pay for your photos bro

Never pay for pics. Seriously does anyone actually do that? How dumb do you have to pay for something that is free?

A photographer has to ask you for permission to photograph you, not the other way round. They don't then try to charge you for the pleasure of getting photographed.

The only time money should enter the discussion is if the cosplayer is making money selling her pics. A photographer can make cash like this too as a team but only as riding the coattails of the cosplayer.

The only time I can think of a cosplayer paying to be photographed at a con is if they have a major ego disorder the photog is trying to exploit. If a photog is going to cons trying to make money off random people they're not really a professional.

>>9286431
Not to mention the fact that anyone with a decent smart phone takes just as good pics as the majority of con photographers these days.

>>9286276

East coast

>>9286431

Versus West Coast.

>>9285724
OK I checked this page, and honestly I'm not that impressed by the quality. Some shots are nice, but it's really inconsistent. I don't think I would pay for this.

Pugoffka on the other hand, I would totally pay.

Unpopular opinion that references photographers:

A cosplay photographer's primary job is to find and or create more fap material. For me.
Everything else is secondary.

>>9286431
HAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
>A photographer has to ask you for permission to photograph you, not the other way round.

If you're in the USA, this is not true if you're in a public area. They may not always be able to sell the photos, but they can definitely take photos and publish them. Read the applicable 1st Amendment photography laws.

>A photographer can make cash like this too as a team but only as riding the coattails of the cosplayer.

Unless you're Jessica Nigri / Yaya Han / that caliber of cosplayer, I don't see the truth in this statement.

>>9286432
>Not to mention the fact that anyone with a decent smart phone takes just as good pics as the majority of con photographers these days.

Fuck "the majority of con photographers". The best of the best is who you should give your money to.

>>9286465
Your white knighting is so obnoxious that I'm genuinely curious to see you photography page. The best of the best? I wouldn't even pay for Dave Yang's garbage, so what do you have to offer?

>>9286451
Pugoffka would cost a LOT more than EMCP. Also, it's two totally different styles of photography. One is mostly staged, with studio lighting, and the other is mostly outdoor convention photography. Kinda hard to compare.

I'm okay with paying for a shoot if the photographers are really good and going to be able to help with posing and such. I wouldn't pay some noob to take washed out photos of me at an unflattering angle.

I've had professionals approach and take pictures of me before, but they never charged for that or could openly solicit because of the con rules here prohibiting photographer solicitation. By the time they gave me their business cards and I check their websites they tend to be sold out.

>>9286467
Dave Yang = Overrated / 10. Or is it, Overrated = Dave Yang / 10?

Lots of static, boring composition, bad editing, and some blown out shots. Why is he so hyped? I guess people think that just cause he's Asian he has to be good. lol.

>>9286467
HAHA wont be outing myself, sorry.

>>9286489
Photographers book up early sometimes. Gotta be on your job, buddy

Unpopular Opinion regarding photographers:

Cosplayers (and their fans) don't know what a good photo is. Also, thirst buckets and cosplay hype-friends will comment "OMG AMAZING" or "SLAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY" after anything a cosplayer posts, once they hit a certain level of e-fame.JNigr could post cosplaying a literal piece of shit, and her sycophants wouldn't miss a beat.

>>9286495
That's fine if you won't be outing yourself, but as long as you can't back up your claims then I'm going to consider you Blueshell tier. You talk like him, too. Continue being the laughing stock of this thread

>>9286465
You just don't get it you're so small time it's like you live in a tiny world where you believe anyone cares about your photo. You definitely don't go and randomly start taking pics of people and harassing them for money. Not even a guy with severe autism can use that excuse.

Selling photo collections is very popular especially in Japan. In a con that matters like Comiket the photographer must bow their head and be behaved like in that OP pic. All the guys gather around and the cosplayer dictates the pace but if they get too rude then the staff comes over and kicks their asses and forces them to disperse.

You're only looking at it from the microscopic perspective of scamming some mentally disabled cosplayers with literally no self esteem like some kind of parasite. A parasite isn't essential to anybody.

>>9286520
> In a con that matters like Comiket the photographer must bow their head and be behaved like in that OP pic.

>All the guys gather around and the cosplayer dictates the pace but if they get too rude then the staff comes over and kicks their asses

>bowing to a cosplayer
>bowing
>to a cosplayer

Nigga wat?

>>9286533
You know because they're not a jerk off that goes on a massive rant about wanting respect for scamming the mentally ill.

>>9285272
I have found after dabbling in both that it would not work the same. Cosplay is essentially "I am dressing up as something fictional and I want proof/to profit off of it' (most the time, not everyone thinks this way) while editorial modeling you are advertising a product, concept, or something of the sort, not just yourself. Actual models (not instathots) do get compensated or paid, but then again when I do a shoot I do not choose my concept, hair, wardrobe, etc. Cosplay you provide the concept.

>>9286568

Theoretically, cosplayers are dressing up as something fictional because they love it and want to represent it well and love making/sewing things; and photographers also enjoy the subject matter and enjoy taking/editing photos, so the motivation behind both of them is a share fandom and creative passion.

In reality, consluts like jnig gave created a gap market for prints cosplaying shit they've never even heard of and photographers whore their artistic integrity taking pics of shit they hate for either cash or the chance to fuck a hot girl, and both sides are contemptuous of each other.

Money ruins everything.

>>9286276
A press pass is you already getting into a con for free and covering the con. It's not a way for you to get into a con for free to book paid shoots. Same with staff. You're already being compensated by your company. Plenty of cons will ban you for abusing this privilege. You want to shoot, but a badge like everyone else.

>>9286451
Pugoffka charges a lot from what I hear, since its studio rentals with props, but she always breaks it up with multiple cosplayers so they shoot a block and have the rest help, then she has her editing team help her after the shoot.

>>9286495
He hangs out with cosfamous and they promote his ass while he covers their bar tabs. Also boobs.

>>9286610
I agree with your theoretical explanation when I first got into cons (2007/2008). It is a business now, which I don't mind if people understand business ethics. People don't have to like or buy your product (book shoots or buy your prints). Also you have to have something that makes you stand out. Why exactly would someone book with you when there are other photogs with similar results but are cheaper? Why would I shoot you when you look like any other white big boobed cosplayers in a bikini and wig?

>>9286670

Yeah I've been going to cons for a long time and watching it turn into a business obsessed with lowest common denominator softcore fakes on all sides of the equation is depressing.

>>9284605
Spoken like a true self-obsessed photographer, way to encourage the stereotype. I'd call bait, but I've known too many photographers. Let me break down reality for you:

To say you're more important that cosplayers is simply laughable. Anything you do, cosplayers can do pretty easily. You don't have to be a photographer to learn photoshop, you don't need a professional photographer to take really nice pictures, but you sure as fuck need a cosplayer for cosplay photography. Photographers are among the lowest tier of artists, if you can even call them that. Now, before people jump down my throat, allow me to elaborate: photographers who don't just take the photo, but also play director and come up with the concept and setting are artists, I'm not talking about them. However, those who point and shoot at cosplayers... I'm sorry, but that doesn't make you an artist. It makes you someone who can point a camera and click a button. It doesn't matter if that camera was $4000+. There is no difference in quality between con photos taken by a "professional" photographer and ones taken by anyone with a $300+ smart phone and basic quality standards. I cannot tell you how many compliments I've gotten for my "photography skills" over cell phone pics it took me 6 seconds to take of random cosplayers I saw in the halls at cons. Including by people who actually made a living off of photography and photography students. It we were to have a "photographer or rando con goer?" thread, I guarantee that without reverse image search, no one would be able to tell the difference. Stop kidding yourselves about what a valuable force you are to this community, your pretension does not equate to talent. Anyone can get a tripod and take photos of themselves completely on their own.

Also, someone said a thing about "you think magazines would publish your selfies?" Have you ever read a cosplay or lolita magazine? There's a lot of selfies.

>>9286651
if they're covering the con they are fulfilling their part of the bargain with the convention. if the convention doesn't give a shit about what they do as long as they provide coverage it no one else should either.

imo if you (as a cosplayer) approach the photographer, you have to pay, but if they approach you, you don't? simple as that

desu i think a good relationship between (actually good, professional) photogs and cosplayers is one where the photog takes pics and gives a digital copy to the cosplayer (with a watermark), or uploads them watermarked to his/her site. and if the cosplayer wants, they can pay to have the mark removed for printing purposes.
that way the photog makes bank on their shots if the cosplayer wants to sell them (through patreon or a stall or smth).

also, paying for pics beforehand would only be reasonable imo if you had to rent out a space or bring in a makeup artist or something... have the cosplayer and photographer go splitsies on it. most cosphotographers are doing it as a hobby, and like artists, should probably have a day job that supports their expenses & travel.

>>9287499

This is my biggest issue in all of this. If there were something given worth value at a convention, it would be worth paying for. What it comes down to most of the time is just some dude with a reasonably nice camera just walking around the con or an area of the con with someone and snapping a few pics. There is no set up, no time put into it (other than a little photoshop magic later SOMETIMES), no real value other than someone giving you tips on stance or angle. I'm suprised there aren't more con hosted photogs that are specifically there with gear like lights and other nessisary equipement for outdoor photography. I see way too many people walking around and taking shots randomly with no real effort put in and later see that the person was someone posting about selling shoots on Facebook or whereever. It really comes down to fun vs money and if you're really trying to make money at a con by doing random shoots with people, you're wasting your time and effort.

I'm a makeup artist that does beauty photo shoots and I really enjoy cosplay but don't cosplay myself often. Would it be weird to offer photo shoots with makeup touch ups or full character makeup application at cons?

Which photographer to avoid at Katsu and why? I'm about to post my lineup this week and wanna weed out the creeps.

>>9284605
A sad state of affairs in this industry

>>9288284
Martin Wong, Mineralblu, Blueshell/Just Cosplay, EMCP

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Can we post good photos vs. bad photos by cosplay photographers?
Here is an extreme example by Travis Photography. I think he's gotten better since then, at least.

>>9288325
Why Mineralblu? Others I can understand

>>9285194

Since when have they become trendy, and why do you even care?

>>9288433
since this year? EMCP, Sweet Sensations, Just Cosplay, After Dark Alliance are just a few

>>9288398
Dude outs everyone's identities in tags and name drops to no end

>>9285724
Name drops more than Lawrence Brenner

>>9288534
>>9288528
he's giving them exposure.

>>9288325
>Reply to Thread No.9284605
I use to like Mineralblu, but he's become the biggest whore in the community and adds everyone including their mom. My friend had a big problem with him when he tagged their personal profile on his pic and then the floodgate of creepers opened with add request. The dude doesn't care about your welfare and safety. He just wants the most attention and will throw his mother under the bus to do it by any means necessary. Being punched in the face by a celebrity to selfies with the cosfamous eating KBBQ. Enough is enough.

>>9288433
I hear this a lot, I personally don't care what people do with their time as long as they are happy. But I do see how it's annoying to some.
(below is true with men also and really any cosplay "Trend" I'm just focusing on sexy girl photoshoots below)
If a girl takes sexy photos in "cosplay" unfortunately she is effecting the whole population of female cosplayers whether she knows it or not. The hot and trendy thing right now (with people not in the cosplay community , aka fuckbois) is "sexy cosplay girls". Since it's now popular with regular people it starts bringing in more and more non-cosplay girls dressing in sexy "cosplays" (some are literally just bikinis) since they know it will get them followers/attention. Which can be annoying for people who actually put effort into a costume but get shown up by T&A of a girl who doesn't even like "nerdy" things. and since more and more normals are now attending conventions also, they assume certain things about the Cosplay community because of what they saw online, ex sexy cosplay girls. They assume all cosplay girls are the same, sexy costume wearing, girls they've seen online. They assume this and often times objectify female cosplayers because of this. As I've seen first hand when a gross neckbeard swooped me up and kissed me on the cheek because I was dressed like slave Leia and "sexy nerdy girls like you love that kind of thing, it's romantic" (literally a quote from him, and yes, he was asked to leave by security after I screamed at him and they witnessed it)

*I know above isn't addressing everyone, since not everyone reacts the same way to sexy cosplays/cosplays, I'm just trying to make sense of why people hate sexy photoshoots of cosplay so much*

>>9288122
at cons it might be hard to do on the fly. you also have the problem of being at the con still.

>>9288551
I'm friends with Long and he's a great guy. beautiful photos. you sound like a jealous rival trying to undermine him.stop spreading factious drama and work on your skills instead.

Cosplay photographers who charge need to actually try shooting something they compare their services to. The "I could be shooting a wedding this weekend and making x amount of money but instead I'm spending it with you nerds" attitude needs to go, since 95% of you cant shoot well enough for that anyways. If photographers all left the cosplay scene, we'd just nerd out in our awesome costumes. If cosplayers left the cosplay scene, photographers would literally have no reason to be there. Who needs who again?

The reality is, if you charge for cosplay photography its because you aren't good enough to be charging for photography in the real world so you need to guilt trip convention goers into thinking you're worth far more than you are.

>>9288568
hahahahaha fuck off
can you be any less fucking obvious

>>9288325
Why Martin? I thought he was the greatest?

>>9288563

That theory makes about as much sense as blaming George Lucas for inspiring horny men, whom, as a result of watching star wars, fantasize about being Jabba the Hut now and want to harass Leia cosplayers at cons. The creators, artists and storywriters who create these characters might as well get just as much flack as girls who do boudoir shoots.

>>9288551
He's a nice guy but has no idea what privacy means and if you're a friend he'll tag your real account because he's hungry for reach. Other than that I have no problems with him other than the privacy issue

>>9288605
You thought wrong

>>9288563
>>9288621
I feel like maybe this person doesn't speak english as their first language because of the wording but I kind of see what they mean. I mean, we kind of blame that one deadpool cosplayer for making other deadpool cosplayers think it's ok to harass people without consent. People are stupid and tend to think and act blindly based on what others do or what they saw on the internet.

>>9288633
>>9288568
>>9288551
it's a shame. his photography is top notch.

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>>9287082
OP here.

I was kinda intentionally using hyperbole to get y'all nigs in here conversing. Of course in the COSPLAY community, cosplayers and photographers have a symbiotic relationship. But, it is true that photographers bring something special to the relationship.

Just like you guys bring characters to life, photographers make you larger than life. The best of us turn you guys INTO the characters. If you really don't consider a photographer an artist, you're crazy. And you can't even compare a selfie to a professionally composed and retouched photograph.

>However, those who point and shoot at cosplayers... I'm sorry, but that doesn't make you an artist. It makes you someone who can point a camera and click a button.

I agree with you here. There are many people who just shoot with no idea what they're doing, who can barely control their white balancing / exposures, but still want money. Those people are not who I'm talking about, and can absolutely gtfo.

>Anyone can get a tripod and take photos of themselves completely on their own.

If you just want pictures of yourself, any kinda pictures, fine. DESU, real photographers don't want to be paid to take shitty "enhanced selfies". I approach every shoot trying to make people go "wow".

>It we were to have a "photographer or rando con goer?" thread, I guarantee that without reverse image search, no one would be able to tell the difference.
Let's do it. Put your money up though. Bet no one would confuse my photos for an iPhone picture, senpai.

>>9287920
What it comes down to most of the time is just some dude with a reasonably nice camera just walking around the con or an area of the con with someone and snapping a few pics. There is no set up, no time put into it (other than a little photoshop magic later SOMETIMES), no real value other than someone giving you tips on stance or angle.

I've taken headshots at cons in minutes that people have said have been the best photos anyone's ever taken of them. But, in addition to those minutes were the days, months ,years I spent practicing, researching and buying gear, and studying. The fact that you can't understand this means you're not really qualified to judge a photographer's profession.

Also, stop judging all photographers by the shittiest ones. It isn't an accurate evaluation.

>>9288122
>I'm a makeup artist that does beauty photo shoots and I really enjoy cosplay but don't cosplay myself often. Would it be weird to offer photo shoots with makeup touch ups or full character makeup application at cons?

I've been looking for someone to do makeup for my cosplay photoshoots since forever. It's a great idea, but you're going to have a terrible time marketing it, because cosplayers see it as a point of pride to do their own makeup, plus they're broke / cheap (just look at the tone of this thread).

>>9288122
Maybe if you have an airbrush machine and can do unnatural skin tones instead of basic makeup. I've seen booths like that at a few local cons and they do pretty well painting people like Hulk and such.

>>9288122
>>9288703
the issue you will have is that of any artist, people don't understand how expensive it is to create art, they won't want to pay enough to even cover the cost of makeup, yet alone application. It's a great idea in retrospect but actually doing it would be hard.
Basic face painting though might be something you can do to make money from the kids/some adults at cons.

>>9285199
If you start bringing in seamstress, makeup artists, hair stylists, etc, then the question really becomes about who is bringing demand and who is bringing supply to the equation.

A photographer hiring a model does so because she wants a specific look and a competent subject that takes direction and doesn't balk at a criticism of her appearance. Probably wants to sell the pictures too, as prints, stock photos, or other. Naturally she would be expected to provide wardrobe/styling.

A cosplayer hiring a photographer does so because she wants a permanent record of her work and a competent person behind the camera. She will have her own ideas about how the character should look, what poses should be made, etc. Naturally she would be expected to do her own costume and makeup. Probably also wants to keep copyright control of the images so her face doesn't end up plastered on the side of a bus for a vagisil ad.

Where the lines get blurred is some situations like a photog approaching a cosplayer to build up her portfolio and the cosplayer looking to shoot a costume the photog isn't looking for. I have a hard time justifying an exchange of money in either direction.

>>9285199
>Everybody agrees patreon lewdz and poser fake geeks are ruining
But youtube told me there's no such thing as a fake geek girl!

>>9288122
My sister has been thinking about doing the same since I cosplay and she thinks it would be fun. I don't know if people would be willing to pay for it though (I know I would love to since doing full body paint is a pain in the ass). I think you should just put it out there and see what kind of interest there is but I also wouldn't expect too much.

>>9285635
As a short guy, I agree. Would you say the same for tall girls cosplaying loli characters?

>>9288654
>Just like you guys bring characters to life, photographers make you larger than life.
Ego pls. Your very first photogs were cosplayers who wanted pics of their fellow cosplayers, back when cosplaying was still a super sekkrit club. Like all things, it's become commercialized, and people go where easy money is.

In other words, by charging money, you are commercializing the cosplay scene to the detriment of everyone already in the scene. But if you get $15 an hour to take 3 photos of an Elsa in a Chinese dress in front of a WalMart trashcan, don't let me stop you.

To go even further, I see freelance cosplay photographers as parasites, leeching money off of the cosplayers they once were, and then now having the audacity to say "Cosplayers, you wouldnt exist without us noble photographers!"

Ohoho, how naive.

>>9288850
It's a free market. If cosplayers are willing I don't see what the deal is.

>>9288654
>If you just want pictures of yourself, any kinda pictures, fine. DESU, real photographers don't want to be paid to take shitty "enhanced selfies".
I'm pretty sure that's what the majority of cosplayers want. A picture to look back on or post on Facebook for their friends, not to sell in a gallery. They are dressing up to have fun at a con.
Of course there will be people willing to put down a lot of money for "artistic skill" but it doesn't make sense to get mad at the people who don't.

>>9288571
But there's plenty of photographers in the scene who do make money outside of cosplay too, and they're cutting their rates to give good photos instead of just hall shots.

You're paying photographers so that there is a guarantee that you'll get photos that are professional quality. Not to mention the insurance that you'll get photos.

>>All the photogs on /cgl/ are talented artists
>>None to be found irl

kek

>>9288932
>>Cutting your rates for no reason

Do you really believe this shit?

>>9284850
>expertise

Nigga do i have to ask for degree from an accredited college??

>>9288551
>>9288398
Agree with the others, he's really nice and generous, but will tag your personal account. If you don't mind that, he's not creepy to shoot with or anything. He'll remove the tag if you ask him to as well; a lot of these anons seem vendetta-y or were too autistic to just confront the issues they had with him.

>>9288654
Consider this: most bigger asian cosplayers don't use "real photographers". They just have a DSLR and shoot their friends (and vice versa). The most important part of cosplay photography is honestly the editing and the framing/feel of the photo, which isn't even something these "pro" western photographers do well. And imo, asian cosplay photography is leagues above its western counterpart in terms of actually emulating the character. So these "pro" photographers could probably all take a hike, because the level of photography needed for cosplay shots is pretty entry level anyways. The main skill is in the editing, which most cosplayers already have.

>>9288956
Where did I say they cut their rates for no reason? There's plenty of reasons for the rate cut.

>>9287082
fucking THANK YOU. You put what I've been thinking about for ages into words. These self-proclaimed "professional cosplay photographers" NEVER come up with ideas for sets and the shooting location, never guide the model (telling them to look "that way" doesn't equal guiding them), they barely do shit except for clicking the button and editing the photo later. Without our costumes the cosplay photogs would have nothing to photograph so how the hell did they get so ridiculously cocky? And why the fuck should they get monetary compensation anyway, I put $400 into my cosplay and I'm not getting shit. Most con organizers don't get paid either. What the hell makes cosplay photographers so special they need to get out their pricing and charge $300 for three shitty pictures that give me the same amount of likes and reblogs as a mirror selfie?

I'm so glad I have cosplaying friends and we share a camera to take photos of each other because I'm so fucking sick of dealing with entitled money-grubbing photographers who, in actuality, have no idea how to take photos of a cosplay. You're not photographing a goddamn wedding portrait, you're supposed to show off my costume I put 500 work hours into!

>>9289034
Plenty of free photographers out there, if you can't shoot with them, don't blame the ones working hard and getting paid or it.

>>9289034
The photographer deserves monetary compensation for doing their job? If a photographer is solicited by a cosplayer to do a shoot, the cosplayer has no right to complain if the photographer demands money. It's also very true a photographer doesn't have the right to complain if they solicit cosplayers, and the cosplayers say, "Nah, that's too expensive." It works both ways.

It was your choice to create a 400$ costume. Photographers make the choice not to create photography for free.

>>9289034
I'm just curious where the fault of the photographers is? Others have said there are shitty and cheaper photographers you can work with? Why are you bitching out the ones that charge higher prices? Where are they twisting your arm to shoot with them?

You just sound salty as fuck that you can't afford to shoot with someone who charges higher.

>>9288972

Any skill set acquired overnight is not one worth having.

>>9288972
Have you seen the before and after of Asian's photoshopping? They "emulating the character" so well is because they get shop to the max, if you are okay with that, then that's fine. But I know most people have an issue with that here in the west.

>>9289902
It's not just the facial shopping, it's the overall feel of the photo they have. The style of cosplay photography over there is more of scene recreation and storytelling shots, vs glamour shots, which are the western standard. Look at Bunnytuan's work for instance. She does some paid shoots, but she's mainly a cosplayer who shoots her friends, and her work is amazing.

>>9289902
>>9289925
You're also talking a full on photo shoot versus a shoot at a convention. Even then, many cons overseas cater to shoots, providing backdrops and props for shoot, while very few cons here in the US do that.

>>9289925
>>9289946

Yea, cosplayers do not do enough location shoots.

>>9289925
I fucking hate the western standard of just boring money shots. The storytelling type is much more captivating and true to the hobby but almost nobody does that in the west because it's ~cringeworthy~ to actually give a fuck about the character you cosplay.

>>9290108
I don't know if it's necessarily cringeworthy. It's just hard to find a photographer that will do a location shoot unless you happen to be friends with one. I would love to do a location shoot and have some more atmospheric photos taken but it's almost impossible to find anyone

>>9287082

Spoken like a true self-obsessed cosplayer. Come complain when you better understand the value of time and money... and what it takes to take a photo.

Cosplayer/model here (just got back from a shoot, actually)
Two of my best friends are photographers, one is a fashion photographer (work used on clothing sites) and the other is a newer, but still amazing portrait photographer. They both have studios.
Neither of them have experience with cosplay photography other than a shoot for me, and their photos were LEAGUES above other shoots I've had with "professional" cosplay photographers and they both did it for free. (I'd drop pics, but I don't want to be off anon)
In my experience, people who only do cosplay photography are shit, and when you get a more artistic photographer to shoot you, the difference is incredibly noticeable. Also, photographers make ugly people look good, or in some cases (like a group shoot I had) good people look ugly. I think that if you're a shitty photographer, you should be able to recognize it and give people free shoots.

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As a photographer/cosplayer, I'd argue that the two are a symbiotic relationship. As far as paying for gigs, it all depends on the situation. If you are going outside of the convention, hauling equipment, etc., than that is time you are not at the convention that you paid to be at... for both parties.

It really depends on who approaches who, as well as if the pictures are for private or profit... such as using the image to sell to fans, or as the banner for your website.

I never charge, because for me dressing up as well as taking pictures are sort of the entire enjoyment of the convention, ya know?

What I hate is when I go to an event to help a friend... you know, set up tables, watch a door, etc., and all of a sudden I become the official photographer. Unpaid because it's a friend, but still sort of rude. Now I have to take single shots of every person there, group shots, etc. when I'd rather be chatting with friends or dancing.

Photo btw: is just someone I took a shoot with this year. I like to advertise that I do free shoots, as that helps me build up my gallery, let's people know I want to take more than maybe two photos, and lets them approach me instead of the other way. Just something I started to do recently.

>>9288352
I can't tell, is that a man or IDK?

I charge for photos, but only if you really want to work with me. Otherwise, I shoot what I want. If someone really wants to work with me, I don't like their costume enough for free work, and they're willing to pay, why not? Some people really don't care about paying and they're more than willing to pay. I really don't understand the whole shamming thing just because there's people out there who don't charge at all.

Would you make a costume for free? Or style a wig for free? I highly doubt it. So why are photographers the only ones who get shit for charging? Ya'll can bitch all you want, but I'm still gonna charge you if you ask me for photos and I'm not totally feeling the costume.

>>9290255
Yeah, I make cosplay for free. I do it for myself and for other fans of the series. If my friend wants to borrow the cosplay i won't charge them. I'll gift cosplay pieces to people, such as handing out small prop pieces (candy, business cards, chocolate coins) when I'm in cosplay.

Of course I will still sell my costumes to people who want them when I no longer have any use for them. I'll take comissions and similar when people ask me, but I am primarily a cosplayer because I like doing it and because it brings other people joy and generates fandom content.

>>9290645
Right, I'm also a photographer who primarily takes photos for my own enjoyment. Trust me, 95% of my portfolio is non-paid work. Again, if someone is willing to pay me and I'm not feeling their costume, that's great. Seriously, there is absolutely no need for the shamming and I don't get it. You commission a photographer for their time and skill just like you would for a costume, prop, wig, .ect. Why does that never sink into people's heads and they still act like photographers a holding a knife to them about paying for photos? Nobody is forcing anyone to pay for photos. Like I said, there's plenty of people who won't charge if you know where to look. I'm one of those people if I like your costume.

If a cosplayer calls your studio and books an appointment or walks into your shop and asks for photos then they should pay like any other customer. If they don't then stop harassing strangers you meet. If you don't have a studio then you're not a professional photographer you're a joke with a camera.

>>9290783
I agreed with you until that last remark. I didn't know having a studio makes one professional. Guess wedding photographers aren't professional by that standard then.

>>9290783
Going by that then, you're not a true cosplayer until you make 100% of your costumes by hand and act like the character.

>>9290783
Most types of "professional" photographers don't have a studio. Beauty photographers normally don't even have them.

>>9290852
This. Most professional photographers also rent a lot of their equipment too.

>>9289068
not in the east coast apparently. I have to beg and pay photographers for 4 shitty pictures, but they run after all the good looking/popular girls and shoot with them for free

>>9291200
Welcome to fucking life.

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>>9284695

>>9284605
another unpopular opinion: cosplay is only popular, cause it is the wet dreams of nerds/geeks/neckbeards/whatever

>>9291200
Simple solution: be good looking

>>9290852
We'll let that exception count for you too when you're doing photography for vogue.
>>9290842
Cos-play. Cos from costume, play from to play with costumes.

>play
>/plā/
>verb
> 1.
> engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose.
> "the children were playing outside"
> synonyms: amuse oneself, entertain oneself, enjoy oneself, have fun;

So you're right a cosplayer is not a professional by definition unless they are a professional in some other way, like a model or an event girl. The crux of the problem here wasn't cosplayers trying to claim their hobby is a professional pursuit that requires payment. I would have thought that much was obvious.

>>9289925
This, think about all those cosplay vs. reality images of Asian cosplayers where one is standing on a box out of shot, or someone is holding hair or props.
Just those simply things already make so much difference.

That said, cosplayers in Asia have a way greater access to stuff like photo studios and special sets they can just rent for a day.

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>>9284605
Unpopular opinion: I don't like people (usually girls) that bitch about how difficult cosplaying is. It's a goddamn hobby, you're not supposed to legitimately stress over it.

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>>9284670
>Photogs throwing a fit about getting paid for their HOBBY has caused every idiot with a point and click to start charging for photos, causing massive price inflation among the untalented.

Have you actually seen what the amateurs charge? Most of them are lucky if they break $15/hr. Even the more established ones who make a decent buck would make way more in any other kind of photography.

>>9291662
this...isn't an unpopular opinion. It's also not true, cosplay didn't get big until normies started getting interested in it

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It feels like a lot of people who complain about cosplay photographers charging are under the impression that the ones who charge just randomly walk up to cosplayers, snap a picture and demand payment. (I've never heard of that happening but feel free to share if you've seen it).

But photographers who take out a block of time to do a photoshoot with you plus do editing afterwards? How fucking entitled do you have to be mad that someone is charging for that? What makes you so amazing that anyone who doesn't want to give you free shit is an asshole? It doesn't matter whether you think it's a hobby or a job, it's still their time and they don't owe you shit.

>>9292886

see

>>9286219

I've definitely had photogs message me, say they want to shoot, so excited, love the costume, etc, then when asked for details start throwing out pricing.

like, bitch, you approached me, what the fuck.

>>9292907
Yeah, that specific kind of scenario I can definitely understand people getting annoyed.

>>9292907
So buy that logic, all the goods and services announced in all forms of advertising should be free, right?

After all, they approached you first, right?

>>9292968
Are you fucking retarded, that comparison's not the same whatsoever. If you're going out of your way to private message someone and ask to shoot with them, then try to tack on a price after, you're a scumbag.

>>9292968
There's nothing wrong with being proactive in getting clients, but the way >>9292907 described is dumb. It's a bait and switch, and besides, most people don't want to be advertised to in their social media inboxes.

>>9292969
>>9292972

No, YOU'RE the idiot, expecting someone to give you their work for free, just because they messaged you first.

That's like saying a door-to-door salesman has to give you a free copy of whatever shit they're selling because you were too stupid to see the company's advertisements.

I've approached many cosplayers, and they would not have known about me if I didn't make the first move.

>>9293760
There's a word for directly messaging/emailing someone who doesn't know who you are to advertise. SPAM.

>>9293760
I'm not the posters from before, but as a cosplayer who does not do paid shoots, it pisses me off when photographers try to get me to pay them.

I'm not here to model. I'm not here to make money off of cosplay. I want some cool pics of the thing I made, and if that means I hand my friend my phone and get some on there, then I'm fine with that. Stop acting like every cosplayer is a patreon ho looking to get rich. I literally do not care, and I don't care about photographers looking for efame or money.

If someone contacts me and says "hey I like your costume, we should shoot" I take that as a compliment. And then the sudden turn to "cool lol here's my rates" is rude as hell. There's always a sudden turn from an attitude of us both being artists to them being the pro and I'm a worthless being in need of them.

And then I see the same photographers doing grody high-contrast "boudoir" shoots with underage-looking Sonico cosplayers. Yeah great photographer.

>>9293760
Yeah, because everybody just LOVES door-to-door salesmen, right?

I'm sure less cosplayers would feel animosity toward photographers approaching them offering paid shoots if they were up-front about it instead of doing the stupid bait and switch.

>Hello there, I'm a photographer and if you're interested in my services, here are my rates

vs.

>Hi! You're so awesome and beautiful! I would really love to do a photoshoot with you. That would be so much fun! Let's be best friends! Oh btw that'll be $75/hr, min 2 hours cash or PayPal only please.

>>9294158
This, I respect photographers so much more when they're upfront. Start off with your rates and I'll look at your work and consider hiring you. Bait and switch, and I will refuse to work with you even if I like your work. If your advertising is shady, your work is probably going to be shady

>>9291774
only coming into this thread to say that the "play" of "cosplay" comes from "role-play." It's the "play" of "to play a part" not "play" as in "to have fun." Why does no one get this right anymore? jesus christ, I will never not be salty about this

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Fatties and chubbies shouldn't be allowed to cosplay

>>9294260
What about if they're going as fatty and chubby characters?

>>9293760
Door-to-door salesmen let you know first that they're salesmen. They don't pretend/let you assume that they're giving out the item, then when you accept it, try to charge you for it. No one wants to shoot with some asshole who does that.

>>9291662

There's levels of cosplay, anon. There's the one-weekenders throwing some shit together for fun to go to the con. There's the project cosplayers who put together something for a particular con or multuple con. Then there's hardcore cosplayers, who consider cosplaying their main interest. A very small amount of the hardcore cosplayers, mostly sexy girls, transcend the hobby status and go pro by whoring out or by becoming cosplay craft people.

For the grand majority of people, project level cosplay is appropriate, and you're right, but on an interest board the value is skewed to the hardcore because theres always lots of armchair warriors who get off by pretending they are the actual hardcore people, plus the actual hardcore people discussing a lot with the project people, plus the fans of cosplay stuff who can get as hardcore as hardcore people.

>>9295152
for >>9291813

clicked the wrong post

>>9293760
It's more like those creeps who hang around the Eiffel Tower, approach couples to shove a rose into the woman's hand and then circle around to the man and demand to be paid for it.

>>9295163
there's a bunch of people in costumes on the las vegas strip who pose in photos with people and expect to get paid

i saw one take a photo with a tourist, stick his hand out waiting for cash, and then the tourist just shook his hand. it was hilarious

>>9288972
>The main skill is in the editing
Well, no. You yourself said that the "framing / feel", as well as emulating the character, is important. And that "feel", or managing to direct the person in front of the camera into having the desired expression and pose in a natural way (+framing and composition) is part of the photographer's skills. Or should be, at least.

You can be amazing at editing and pile on the photoshop effects, but if the model has a forced expression and an awkward pose it won't help. The mood at the photoshoot does actually affect things, and often that mood rests largely on the shoulders of the photog (or their assistant).
Maybe in Asia both the photogs and the models just have more ambition and work harder in order to achieve the correct "feel" and pay attention to the atmosphere. Higher work ethic, in a way.

I haven't actually seen a lot of Asian cosplay photography so I might be talking out of my ass here - but I just want to point out that the special "feel" in photographs that is what sets the good photos apart from mediocre crap, is actually often a result of the photographer putting in effort and skills and directing the shoot and the model (and framing the shot well). It's not as tangible as the technical aspects of a photo so people often overlook it, but imo it's quite crucial. Not just in cosplay photography, but in general.

Sadly many wannabe photogs don't direct well, though.

>>9284796
Felix wong is a fuckboi faggot

Unsure if I'm stirring this out of topic but since we're talking paid photographers at cons..

My cosplay community is quite "small" and everyone knows the majority of our regular photographers, who usually offer their 'services' for free.
At this one con I attended with friends, one of the usual photogs approched us and asked us to spare some of our time to do a small photo session with him. Obviously, we all agreed, he gets photos he wants, we get photos of us all together, no sort of payments were discussed because he never charged, we all kinda know eachother and because it was his request.
However, after the con, we contacted him about getting some of the photos for ourselves and to our surprise, he refused to give us the photos for free and wanted payment per photo.

What do you think of cases like this? Have you been in a situation like this and how did you handle it? Do you think it's fair of him to charge us for a photoshoot he asked us to do?

To note this was an amateur and not a professional but recently I've been getting the feeling that all our usual photograhers (which are all amateurs as well) are getting this "holier than thou" attitude because they're "well known" among the community since they don't have "competition".
Because of this, I notice a lot of the older members of the community, myself and friends included, just keep doing photoshoots with eachother like we've always done and it's mostly the youngers members idolizing these subpar photographers because there's no better options to compare.

I'm all for paying a photographer for their time, of course but it feels unfair in this situation I've mentioned.

>>9295275
I would reply in as calm and friendly (but sort of businesslike) tone I can that oh nooo unfortunately I only agreed for the photoshoot (which the photog wanted and initiated, not me) under the implicit understanding that I'd get the photos for my own use as a "modeling fee", as that had always been standard practice so far, and as it turns out I wouldn't get the photos for myself after all in this case I'd have to ask him for monetary compensation for my time instead for the right to use the images with me in them ":)".
(Unless he has a written release slip with your signature, you have the right to forbid him from publishing / using your images in his self-promotion.)

Then add some friendly regrets about how unfortunate it is that we didn't discuss this clearly at the shoot ha ha so sorry about the misunderstanding, but again unfortunately unless I get the photos OR money as compensation for my modeling, I won't give permission for the publishing of the photos with me in them.
But then sweeten it up by wishing him luck in transitioning to paid photoshoots or whatever as his work is so nice yada yada - but remind that in general if he wants to be paid for the photos, he really has to mention it IN ADVANCE, especially when he's the one suggesting / requesting, as it's the commissioner, in this case him, who pays the people who agree to give their time an effort, and not the other way around.

Just kind of be friendly and understanding, but firmly of the opinion that this shit won't fly, and as he asked other people to model for him he needs to compensate THEM for their time in either photos or money. That's how the world works.

After that I'd think twice about working with him again. I wonder if he's actually a douche or if he just heard too much talk about how photogs should be compensated for their work and it clouded his judgement of the situation?

>>9295292
Thank you so much for your answer! This situation already happened a few months ago so nothing I can do about it (at the time, the one of us who spoke to him got quite upset about us having wasted our time for photos HE requested and was now demanding money for that she just told him she forbid him from posting the photos and then he came talk to the rest of the group behind her back saying it was "oh so unfortunate" that he wouldn't be able to post our photos online because a member of our group had requested him not to and that it was oh such a shame because the photos were so good). If I ever find myself in a situation like this again, I'll be sure to follow your advice, I think it's quite fair to ask for a modeling fee considering it was his request. I regret that we were so taken aback by it that we didn't really think through how we could have handled the situation better. Thank you for your input!

I don't think we'll want to work with him again after this. To be quite honest, I think the fact that he's acquainted with a lot of people in the community and that he's present in most cons to photograph/video, that it makes him entitled to charge, despite his work being mediocre at best. So it'd be the latter. It's been a regular topic among the community regarding photogs, except nobody is a professional and it's a bit ridic.

Uhhh, unless you agree to a service I don't think the provider can harass you for money? I don't think photogs taking your pic and demanding money is legal, not to mention if this is a known problem just ask the person beforehand for a portfolio or pricing. You don't have to agree to it. If they decide to do it without your permission it's up to them but no money. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>>9295292
>Unfortunately unless I get the photos OR money as compensation for my modeling, I won't give permission for the publishing of the photos with me in them.

HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The photographer owns the pictures. And if you were in a public place when he took them, he doesn't need your permission for shit.

>>9295240
I'm inclined to agree.

Anyone who doesn't own an L lens should fuck off and kill themselves. This includes Nikonfags who own whatever the Nikon equivalent of an L lens is.

>>9296007
Uhhh...so just a good quality lens?

>>9295756
that depends on whether or not the con center is public or private property, and is only true if it's not being used commercially. The photog can post the picture, but he can't profit off it.

>>9295275
Anyone, no matter the job is, who does something without discussing money and then comes after you later demanding to get paid is a bullshitter.

But since the photos legally belong to the photographer, he's allowed to withhold them if you don't pay him. They're his. It's a shitty thing to do and it certainly isn't "fair," but there's really nothing you can do about it.

>>9296015
Nah that's bait. L lenses cost in the neighborhood of $1000.. Unless you're at a point in your career where you're netting high five/low six figures then standard lenses that cost a max of around $300 apiece will serve your needs fine. For most photographers, saying you NEED an L lens is like saying pizza delivery drivers need Italian sports cars.

>>9296035
I can never be sure when it's bait because I visit /p/ so much and gearfaggotry is such a big thing.

>>9296035
>saying you NEED an L lens is like saying pizza delivery drivers need Italian sports cars.
You mean your pizza driver doesn't drive an Italian sports car? How do you even live you life?

>>9296007
LOL @ this gearfaggotry

I bet I've ALREADY outshot you with my 65 dollar 70-210 lens .

It has nothing to do with your gear; it has everything to do with whether you can take a good picture.

>>9293770
> Stop acting like every cosplayer is a patreon ho looking to get rich
T H I S. I fucking hate the consensus of all these shitty cosplay photographers who believe that EVERY cosplayer needs professional tier photoshoots because as a cosplayer they of COURSE want to be cosfame and milk patreon for all its worth. I fucking don't, I'm completely fine with shooting with my friends and in return I take pictures of them. I don't need smug ass "cosplay photographers" to bill me $200 for a shoot just because they have an expensive camera.

Most of the cosplay photographers I've met have been rude and full of themselves anyway and I swear to god they have more petty drama than actual cosplayers. And if he's male, there's a 90% chance he's a creeper doing this just to meet cute girls and creep on them.

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Talking about the source material is what dirty secondaries that cosplay something they don't actually read/watch/play call "being quizzed."

>>9296067
>It has nothing to do with your gear
Spoken like a true poorfag. High end gear will objectively take better photos than your shitty rabble and Chinese knockoff lens.

>b-b-but muh composition
Composition is piss easy to learn. You act like this is some sort of accomplishment. I can take a retard and teach him in three simple sentences the sum of everything you know about photography.

>>9295756
Who is letting this fucking photo cuck still post? Go back to attempting to snipe shots of Nigri instead of shitting up this thread

>>9293770
You say that it pisses you off when photographers try to get you to pay them, but what pisses me off is when I offer to do a shoot for free and the cosplayers demand that *I* pay *them*

WTF do you want?

>>9296131
What do you think photography is all about? Seriously, there's no coincidence that a good portion of models (amateur and professional alike) end up dating/sleeping with/marrying their photographers.

Being a photographer is not all about getting laid with models, but it is definitely a benefit.

>>9296345
>getting laid with models
You do know that most cosplayers are nowhere near model status, right? You wanna sleep with models then go photograph models.

>>9296030
If it's in public area, I think they can profit from it, that's actually how paparazzi photographers make a living.

>>9296398
But models won't call me onii-chan

>>9296131
Every person with something to sell is going to try to convince you that you need what they're selling.

>>9296414
>>9296131

Correct, but also means not EVERY photographer is trying to be cosfamous, not every one of them want to shoot nigri. But you can't blame the ones that do, and they are definitely allow to sell you a service if they want to.

As everyone has already mentioned, you can always say no or decline politely. If they won't take no for an answer then I do see a problem. No means no.

"I'm completely fine with shooting with my friends", then shoot with your friends, you don't have any issue at all already, so chill.

So let's say cosplay is art and photography is art.

The problem is one artist wants to charge another artist who isn't getting paid for their art while the artist trying to charge couldn't make their art without the other artist's art.

>>9296446
It's the same with non-cosplay modeling/photography. It's all about what each party wants and what they're willing to do to get it.

>>9296410
Paparazzi photographers aren't charging $5-35 for a shoot

>>9296131
MOTHERFUCKER
> I fucking hate the consensus of all these shitty cosplay photographers who believe that EVERY cosplayer needs professional tier photoshoots because as a cosplayer they of COURSE want to be cosfame and milk patreon for all its worth.

IF YOU DON'T, SHUT YOUR COCKHOLSTER, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO REASON TO BE IN THIS THREAD. All you have to do is say no when photographers approach you. Period.

>Most of the cosplay photographers I've met have been rude and full of themselves anyway and I swear to god they have more petty drama than actual cosplayers.

I'm not rude (most of the time), but I will admit to having drama. Just don't involve yourself in it. Period. Stop making yourself out to be some kind of fucking victim when you're inserting yourselves into a conversation where you don't belong.

>>9296587
It's not about if they are charging or not, it's about if they are allowed to profit from a photo that is taken from a public place, and the laws say yes.

>>9296167
>It has nothing to do with your gear
>Spoken like a true poorfag. High end gear will objectively take better photos than your shitty rabble and Chinese knockoff lens.

OBJECTIVELY FALSE, senpai. Case in point, all the absolutely terrible photographers that have 3 camera bodies, 3 70-200 VRIIs, all the speedlights and monolights in the world, and upload 500+ picture albums of pure digital shit.

If you really want to put your money up, I'll be at both MagFest and Katsucon. Your photos vs mine. Winner takes all the loser's gear. What's up, pussy?

>>9296640
they changed "f a m" to "senpai". I cri.

I'd never call this faggot senpai. Wtf, 4chan?

>>9296167
I mean, it has a bit to do with gear. As long as you aren't sporting a shitty kit lens and have something decent in the $200-500 range that fits what you're photographing you're fine.

>>9296446
For the last time... THE LAST TIME...

Photographers get paid because COSPLAYERS WANT PHOTOS. Regardless of the reasons why, because cosplayers want photos, they pay.

No one cares that you spent 6 jillion dollars on your cosplay. No one cares that you aren't making any money from your cosplay. No one cares if you are or aren't trying to be cosfamous. If you don't want to pay a photographer, buy a camera, buy lenses, buy a remote trigger, buy some lights, learn how to use all that shit, study for months if not years to take striking, artistic photographs, and then do it yourself. Or, book those fucking terrible 10 dollar photographers at cons, and then complain about how terrible the photos you got are.

>>9296640
I will take you on....

>>9284919
>>9284961
How would I justify charging more than 20 bucks an hour? I wouldn't feel right charging more than I would be willing to pay personally.

>>9296167
i will fight you on this. any rebel, a nifty fifty and a competent photog will produce amazing work. hell a used 5D mark II and a 300 USD 85 1.8 which is like literally sub 1000 USD with anyone who has talent will produce gold, and thats what, 8 years old? Fuck man, the fuji XT-1 and the god that is the 56 1.4 is like 700 and that produces literal magic.

fuck for literally 60 years the nifty fity and basic 35mm FILM was the vast majority of photography and that combo produced art. fuck you you gearfaging fuck, you literally made me so autistic and angry, you are why /p/ and dpreview and every photography forum hate gearfags. you are the cancer.

>>9296676
Let's just assume you spend half the time shooting and half the time editing, then 20 dollars an hour is only 10 dollars an hour, and that is lower than minimum wage in some states.

>>9296342
This has literally never happened.

>>9296644
All this time I thought senpai was changed to desu.

>>9296904
What changes to desu?

>>9296628
hit too close to home?

>>9296921
t b h

>>9296676
If being a photographer is your job, like your JOB job, then $20/hr is chump change. First of all you probably won't have 40 hrs a week of paid work booked every single week, so you need extra money to make up for that downtime. Then you have to factor in the time you spend doing prep and transportation. And the time you spend editing doesn't bother count toward your hourly rate, si you have to account for that time too. Now you have to add in the costs of equipment and books/courses to grow your skill set.

But you'd have to know what you're doing ping to buy or worth a decent rate. You can't just be a GWC photographing on full auto zooming in and out all Willy nilly on the kit lens with a super high ISO and shitty white balance.

>>9296855
Trust me, that gearfaggot doesn't know anything about what he's talking about.

>>9296934
Yes. I hate cosplayers who whine all the fucking time, especially about shit that has nothing to do with them.

>>9296676
You are cancer. 10 dollar 20 dollar photographers are the cancer of photography, and I hope your cameras break.

>>9296628
>YOU HAVE NO REASON TO BE IN THIS THREAD
this is an unpopular opinion thread, not a photog thread you retard

>>9297005
>shit that has nothing to do with them
>cosplay community
hmmmm

>>9297007
>>9297021

>Cosplayer bitches about paying photographers
>Cosplayer doesn't have to pay photographers
>Cosplayer admits that they don't ever pay photographers

In other words, the cosplayer is whining over nothing. Why are you even chiming in? And I'm guessing that since you don't have a bunch of people flocking to shoot you, that you're a salty fatty or uggo. So, I'm glad you know that you're going to need to pay every time you want to see some photos of yourself that aren't iPhone selfies.

>>9297044
your reading comprehension seems to be at an all time low, or maybe you're just stupid all the time.

>>9296855
If film cameras were still the standard, there'd be no photographers at cons. No chimping on LCD screens for you!

>>9297110
If hand sewing were still the standard, wouldnt be any cosplayers either.

>>9297110
I shot my first cons on film way back when. I should scan them some day.

>>9297140
Oh, same here! It was all disposable cameras though so quality was barely feature phone camera level lol.

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UNPOPULAR OPINION 2: If photographers and cosplayers worked together, they could start BOTH getting paid from prop and costume makers, and the people who own the intellectual property they're using illegally.

>>9297647
>using illegally
I bet you think you're cute. You're not.

>>9297653
When they're selling prints of them dressed up as the characters or doing videos while in those outfits, yeah they are.

>>9297647
Isn't that already what the elite cosplayers and photographers are doing?

>>9297653
Ask Disney's lawyers if your shitty Belle cosplay is kosher. Prepare your anus for a C&D order first.

>>9296855
>>9296970
I dont feel like i'm not assertive enough to feel ok charging any more despite me relying on the prices for rent and bills.I studied photography in school but idk if I'm comfortable talking to people about money

>>9297005
Is free better? Whats wrong with 10-20 to you?

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>>9297766
>Is free better? Whats wrong with 10-20 to you?

A lot of people charging that spreads the perception that the prices for creative services should be so low that professionals are expected to work for way below minimum wage. If you want to charge that low then whatever, that's your choice. But at least know how it affects others.

https://twitter.com/forexposure_txt

>>9297766
Free is WORSE. If you studied photography in school, charge what you're fucking worth. The flip side of that is, don't charge an arm and a leg, and then give back shit pictures. That makes everyone look bad.

I also charge for photography, and kinda rely on it at times. It burns my ass when cosplayers say they can get it for 20 dollars from one of you assholes. But then one of two things happens. The pictures are invariably horrible. But they either whine about it, or they try to save face by hyping the pictures up as the Best Thing Ever. I laugh either way.

If you're not confident in your ability to give a product worth a good price, don't charge.

>>9297868
Fuck this person. But if you roll the dice with cheap photographers, you're going to get burned 95% of the time, because the ones that are good will eventually wake up and start charging decent rates.

>>9297877
I agree, either don't charge or charge something that make sense for yourself.

You get what you paid for, but I think the main issue is that people/fans don't care about the quality of the product, they don't know gold from shit, so of course they are not going to pay money.

I think that's why all the big cosplay photographers don't charge, cause they know they can't charge how much they want, might as well do it for free.

>>9297082
I think it's the latter

>>9297890
Or they start charging higher rates to weed out the unappreciative shits that think all photogs should happy to get enough for a McDonald's value meal.

When are photographers going to start charging for video?

>>9298234
When they produce video that doesn't look like pure ass.

>>9298234
They can't unless it's a cosplayer that thinks they are the shit and wants to bless thier followers with behind the scenes shit.

No one asks for Cosplay Music Videos, but watch them because they're there and free. If videographers started charging people to appear in their shit videos, they'd have no footage.

>>9298592
You're right, but it's probably because the cosplayer has no rights over the video. At least if they buy photos, they can do things with it. The video belongs to the videographer. Even Hollywood doesn't charge people to be in movies.

I think cosplay videos have a long way to go before being "cool". They're really cutesy and cringey, so nobody takes them seriously.

Unpopular opinion 3: "Cosplay boudoir" is boring as shit. Cosplay photographers think slapping a girl in lingerie on a bed with a pop-up flash is praise-worthy. I guess it's just to show their friends that they actually were around a girl with lingerie on.

Extra lulz go to the cosplay whores that think anybody's actually going to buy that garbage. After a few months of selling no prints, there's gonna be a lot of broads filling out applications at wal-mart

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Nothing personal against this cosplayer or photographer (it was just one of the first images that came up when I searched for "cosplay boudoir" on Facebook), but this is what I'm talking about.

Straight shitshow.

>>9296901
It has happened to me, many times

>>9298966
I've come across one cosplayer so far who asked for payment, before you took a photo. Just one. I laughed in their face and walked away.

I have no problems hiring a model/cosplayer if I'm looking to do an actual shoot, outside a convention, but not for a fucking hallshot or a quick photo.

>>9298912
I've shot cosplay boudoir sets. That said, I hate them, because cosplayers have no idea what boudoir is, aside from posing in lingerie or implied nudity. I've directed them, and the cosplayers dislike the poses I put them in. In the end the photos become slutty-ish and posed, instead of natural, but the cosplayers pay the bill when they hire me, so I shoot what they want.

>>9297868
It doesn't affect anyone because if someone is getting a professional photoshoot done the photographer might as well come from a different planet to amateur cosplay photographers. It's like comparing cheap girl scout cookies to a multiple course menu at a 3 michelin star restaurant.

>>9298912
Agreed. Also, I don't consider a wig and victoria's secret lingerie in a similar color to a costume to be cosplay. At least put some fucking effort in.

>>9299036
No, when you offer cut-rate services, people expect it to always be that price. Especially when they aren't educated on the value of that service.

If I don't know the difference between a bad photo and a great photo, if you offer me a shoot at 20 dollars, I'm going to expect all shoots to be 20 dollars. People instinctively know there's different levels to everything, but it amazes me that they can't figure out what makes a good photo good and a bad one bad.

>>9299138
It's the hype machine in works. People are friends with photographers and they praise their shit work because they always get photos from those people, even if the photos suck.

>>9299138
No, it's the same as now trying to compare deviant art commissions to fine art. There is no comparison.

The people that are going to choose the deviant art are NOT in the market of looking for a great work of art, they just want a picture. The people in the market of looking for paid or free pics are not in the market for looking for a pro photographer. They do not see you as a pro photographer, so you are not doing pro photography work.

Get real clients or find a new hobby,

>>9299186
Agree, get real clients, cosplayers are not your real clients

>>9299186
There's tons of professionals on DA that make quality work. Probably nothing that'll ever make it to the Louvre, but top quality work still for the industries they're in

>>9297110
brownies and the point and shoots. Are you fucking new? literally fujifilm ate Kodac alive because they made cheap good film and basic cameras. my autism is maximum. fuck man are you like 18 and do you not remember the point and shoot or fuck even the polaroid instant? this shit still existed reeeeeee

Why are all the nationally well-known or regionally successful photographers lonely, ugly non-Japanese Asian Men? Why can't a photographer be a person other than this race, life-choice configuration?

>>9299281
If you ask them to do a commission portrait of your furry fanfic character with your rp friends furry character for $5 will they do it? There's your market mismatch.

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>>9299759
Emotionally stunted losers objectively create the best art.

If you complain about photographers charging whatever they want then you are against free market capitalism and you're probably literally a filthy communist. If a shitty photographer charges way more than they're worth, then he will eventually not get any work. If people continue to hire him despite his shitty photos, then the public has spoken and deemed that his shitty photos are indeed worth his ridiculously high prices. It might suck to hear, but that's just how capitalism works. At that point you just have to accept the fact that cosplay photography is a luxury and you aren't entitled to it if you can't afford it. Your demand for a photographer is simply much higher than a photographer's demand for a cosplayer. If you want to leverage things in your favor then you'll learn to be a much better, much more attractive, much more popular cosplayer to make photographers want to work with you.

>>9299765
Depends on what you're asking to do, but some might, maybe a $5 favicon?

Your point was no professional uses DA, which isn't true.

>>9299902
Yeah because I really care so much about DA in this thread about DA rather than use it as a similar analogy? That's a big leap to resolve your cognitive dissonance.

Let me break it down for you. You're the photography equivalent of the 13 year old girl selling cheap commissions of poorly drawn gay furry pics on DA, and the photography world equivalent of her place in the art world.

Get real clients

>>9299780
The average price of cosplay photography hovers around $0 do the math.

>>9299759
Interesting point.

But there are lots of talented White, Latino and Black photographers. It's just that a lot of photographers in general are crap.

>>9299759
>>9299766

What does attractiveness have to do with taking a good picture? Also do yall cosplayers think youre Victorias Secret models or something?

The average cosplayer is like 5'5" and 160 lbs, a solid 4/10, but yall have the highest standards i ever heard of. Heres a unpopular opinion for yo ass: the reason so many cosplay photos look like shit is because the cosplayers look like shit. can only polish a turd so far

>>9300094
Most photos look fine but they cost nothing. OP pic was free, everyone in OP pic did it for free, are you mad? Don't be a douche bag pickup artist at a con for a niche hobby and expect to be treated as a fashion photographer.

>>9299968
Please stop looking up big words if you're not going to use them correctly.

>>9300182
The cosplayer in the op looks pretty cute though. Most cosplayers don't look pretty cute. Uggos need to pay up.

>>9299979
The average cosplay photo is a snapshit taken from a phone. You want cheap, then don't bitch about quality. You want quality, then don't bitch about price.

>>9300192
What big words? Are you mentally a baby?

>>9299759
asians are naturally gearwhores and therefore more likely to have a camera to begin with and know how to use it

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>>9300272
Now you're just being a shit-slinging monkey, just because you're ignorant about the words you misused.

>>9299186
You'd be surprised how many individuals and companies that make a lot of money will go "What do you mean you can't do this for $5? Screw you, my nephew can do this for free!"

Unpopular Opinion: Cosplayers should get paid by photographers.

>>9301510
Some photographer do pay cosplayers for shoots. Just not at cons.

>>9293760
Actually in modeling in general if someone approaches you it's usually because they like your look and will work with you for free or tfp. They don't message you or book you and ask you to pay them. Idk why the fuck cosplay photogs do this because literally as soon as they do it I am turned off forever unless their work is that fucking good but even then because you approached me I'm gonna be like "well I'm sorry you approached me and at the time I'm unable to afford those prices if you'd like to shoot all can do trade other than that at this time I will have to say no". If I message a photographer and also their prices then that's another thing entirely and I don't mind paying someone for their work.

>>9284737
Whoa whoa whoa......
Are you actually so delusional that you think photographers are more important than costumers at a nerd con????

If you really are, imagine a con without photographers. Then imagine a con without costumers. Unless you're talking about a "camera convention", if they exist, cons would look pretty stupid with nothing to take pictures of, eh?

>>9302472
Nobody said you have to say yes

If I approach someone and they say no, it's all good I don't take it personally. But why be turned off from them forever?

>>9302524
because it's shady and rude af to message someone and book them without mentioning prices, then try to tack on the prices in the end.

>>9302531
you sound like you would be mad about anything

i wanna make money so i ask to be paid. thats not shady its just business. you cant really be mad at me for that

i dont get mad that you dont wanna pay me.

>>9302533
no one will get mad if you mention upfront your prices. people will be mad if you act like the shoot is free, book them without mentioning any prices and allowing them to assume it's free, then at the very end try to tack on a price. do you understand the difference?

>>9302539
well of course youd be mad at that

ill message someone id like to shoot with, but bring up prices in the first convo. im not gonna string you along

like if theyre talking about prices at the time of the shoot, then it's a problem. lol

>>9302514
>thinking cosplayers are important to a con at all
People like you are the reason why conventions have gotten progressively worse over the years. Katsucon and Otakon are the biggest cons in my area. Each year they get away with having a shittier and shittier line up of guests and panels because they know they can line their pockets with cosplayer money for their reputation or being 'the' cosplay conventions to be at. On the other side of things is Awesome Con. Fairly new, fucking nobody really talks about it. No one is driving in cross country to go there. The cosplayers aren't on the same level as the ones who show up to Katsucon and Otakon, and honestly I wouldn't care if there wasn't a single cosplayer there. Because their guest list for the past three years have been absolutely phenomenal and blows Katsu and Otakon out of the water in an absolutely brutal one sided beating. Cosplayers aren't the be all end all of the convention scene, and if you think they are then maybe you should reevaluate why you go to conventions in the first place.

>>9302579
Dis.

/thread

>>9302579
>People like me....

You're degrading a fan base on the decisions of a company. If people are enjoying the guests however, that's indicative of what the fans want. Costumer/non costumer alike. You're also trying to judge a con for being filled with lousy costumers in what you say is trying to be the "cosplay convention". A little silly when you point that out. I wouldn't go to a Ford car show, and say, "hey. These are just shitty fords. I wanna see some Chevy's, and other brands".

Costumers are also a major part, if not the spine of nerd cons. Without them you lose a significant portion of con goers. You also lose the merchandise made specifically for costuming, and all those persons related. As well as your precious photographers.
Though not necessarily, these sub groups generally get started as a result of the larger groups existence.

In a simpler way-
Fans>costumers
Fans>>>photographers

>>9302604
>spine of nerd cons
You are seriously overestimating the importance of cosplayers to the convention scene. Conventions have been a thing for years before cosplaying and nerd culture in general became mainstream. If a sizable chunk of cosplayers disappear, conventions would still roll right on like it did back in the day. All it would mean is that there would be more vacant hotel rooms to book and I would be totally up for that.

>>9302623
Actually no, no they wouldn't. Where the hell do you think they get the money to pay all these guests? A drop in attendees means less revenue and that means goodbye con. Cosplayers make up a HUGE chunk of con-goers and you might not like that but the money they spend on tickets is what is keeping cons afloat.

You can't compare the convention scene now to the scene when it was first starting out. It was a small, niche type of event back then. Not so much anymore.

File: la-et-hc-comic-con-through-the-years-20150701-116.jpg (1MB, 1364x2048px) Image search: [Google]

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>>9302623

Actually, nerd cons have in fact, not, been around before cosplay. They just didn't have the term.Pic related. I simply googled "first comic Con"

Costuming still existed before it was mainstream. Just like cons. Kinda like they go hand in hand

>>9302514
Camera Conventions exist. Costumers were going to cons before cosplay photography was even thing.

>>9302604
Costumers are also a major part, if not the spine of nerd cons.

NO. NO. Nonononononononononononononononononononononono NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

No.

The spine of nerd cons is nerd shit. Comic book and anime content first, creators second, and fans of them third. If you think cosplay is more important than anything I listed, you're part of the problem.

>>9302579
Awesome Con is a pop culture con, so of course they'll get bigger guests. Otakon and Katsucon or geared towards the anime/manga crowd. Majority of these cosplayers are posers and wouldn't know shit if these cons brought in the Japanese voice actors and shit, unless they were die hard fans of the series or the guests were icons like Masamune Shirow & Hayao Miyazaki.

>>9302745
You didn't read the whole post, did you

>>9302704
>>9302732

Your both idiots. Both anon >>9302623 >>9302745 are right, pop culture cons existed for a long time before costuming was such a big thing at cons, and they still do. Check out the smaller cons like Philadelphia Comic Con and you'll see more people in regular clothes than costumes. Cons were around in the 70's and 80's. Don't pull some bullshit photo out as proof, when it's a single photo of a couple of people in costumes that help sell a story. Look at the overall photos. If I look up photos of the media covering SDCC, NYCC, or whatever other cons, I can easily see tons of people in regular clothes shopping the aisles or in line for exclusives or at panels compared to people in costumes. Meanwhile I can look up any cosplay photographer's photos of a con and it'll just be cosplayers, because they have a biased priority.

Lack of cosplayers just means more available hotel rooms, and a drop of attendees. There will still be plenty of fans going to cons to meet celebs and buy stuff from vendors. Cons also collect money from vendors, not just attendees.

At this point the big cons can get rid of cosplayers and still sell out as you have all these normals trying to get in to meet so and so celebs!

I think in a lot of modern cons cosplay has replaced other things as the main activity, but a lot of that is market forces more than anything. I was going to cons in the early 2000s and they were one of the best, if not only, places to get weird/rare merch, meet other fans, discover new series, watch premiers, learn about the industry, and party with fellow nerds. Now, all of those things happen on the internet, and it's faster and cheaper and all year round. So what's left to do at cons? everything that panels and the dealer's room and programming offers can be found online. Guests, if you're into that and the con has a good line up. Concerts. And cosplay. So that's what cons are focusing on

>>9302760
*You're both idiots

This is completely ignoratio elechi, but I'll bite.
Costuming has been around ever since the beginning. Like, the first Trekkie meets had people dressed as red shirts, and James T.
I did Google SDCC, and NYCC, and got the same result from both.
First few pictures were their logo, second few was the large photos showing the size of the crowd, costumers and non costumers mixes in yes, and third was costumes.

I do chuckle at the irony of using photos, but the first argument here was what's more important, costumers, or photographers. Of courses con can survive without costumers. But without costumers, photographers have little to work with.

>>9285307
I can only speak for myself, but even if I was a professional level photographer(I'm definitely not),things like weddings and corporate events would be insufferable for me. I do cosplay photography because I enjoy photographing cosplayers, showing their love for their favorite characters by portraying them as best they can.

File: topkek.png (64KB, 513x626px) Image search: [Google]

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Every cosplay photographer secretly do this. Next up. Felix

>>9302472
>>9302524
>>9302531
>>9302533
>>9302539
>>9302568

I think the main difference between cosplaying and modeling is that models don't sell prints.

>>9297701
You have no idea how fashion/3D copyright works, do you. Utilizing the trademarked name of the show or character for profit is not allowed, yes. However if I sell a print of a cosplay without mentioning these names, that is in the clear unless my outfit incorporates some sort of copyrighted symbol. Go read a book.

>>9303567
Neither do you apparently. You think just because you don't mention the name of the character you're cosplaying, you're suddenly clear? Try again. The only reason these companies don't go after cosplayers selling prints is because they don't know about the sales and/or the returns are pathetic to pursue. It's bad business sense to spend $10K in legal fees to recoup $50-100 from print sales.

A symbol, like Superman's S, is trademarked and copyrighted by itself, as well as part of the Superman copyright and trademark, BTW. So total of 4 intellectual property licenses.

Cosplay is consent don't dress like a slut.

I thought the whole point of photo shoots at con was to find new models, get connects and build your potfolio so that way people would start paying you for shoots.

>>9291662

Literally did you even read what you typed?

"Photographers" are cancer. Once had a "professional" takes some pics of me. Found out after he was selling them to other attendees. I asked him to show me the release form I signed to allow him to do that. He took it down. Good times.

You want to give my image away, sure no problem. You want to turn a profit of my work, where's my cut?

>>9303503
When a Cosplayer sells prints then they should contact the photographer and they get a cut of revenue from those prints. I don't sell prints but if I did you have to ask photographers permission first and they must ask a price for the percentage of funds made off those. But if you aren't selling anything I don't see the issue.

>>9305007
Most cosplayers are good with that, talking to photographers to figure out the cost of prints. Some photogs go by a percentage, others go by a flat fee. The same is true with the good photographers. They talk to the cosplayers and figure out how much a cosplayer gets of the cut, and in return the cosplayers can help promote the print sales.

A few times though you've had cosplayers/photographers selling prints without the other's consent and it'd blow up, like body pillow guy or Jessica Nigri

>>9305477
What did JNig do?

Body Pillow guy had release forms that the models signed without reading, proving that what's legal isn't always what's moral, and being legally in the right won't prevent you from getting publicly backlisted for pissing off too many people.

>>9305574
Body pillow guy had release forms that had printed names on them, but were never signed by cosplayers, at least the ones I knew. Big difference. The photographer claimed he had scanned copies of the forms cosplayers signed, but when he showed the staffers at AnimeNEXT, all the forms were printed/typed on his iPad. No actual signatures, which would be there if he really did scan any signed forms.

JNig removed a photographer's watermark and started selling prints without the photographer's permission. I forget who it was and what cosplay she was wearing, but the photographer called her out on removing his watermark and selling prints without his permission. She went on a rant about he should be happy to have suddenly gained a few hundred new followers and without her it wouldn't have been possible, and her followers started attacking his page leaving negative reviews and comments. Then a day later or so, she deleted her comment and removed the photo for sale, and posted some BS vanilla apology.

>>9306381
damn