Fuck Programming

Network admins and ITfaggots don't do any programming.

Maybe some scripting at most.

>>976872
Network admin here, can confirm the job requires no programming.

I script occasionally to make certain parts of my job easier, but 95% of my day is spent in command lines.

>>976872

I have to take Unix/Shell Programming, two C++ courses, and Java. I guess I have to get past the "just do it for the degree" barrier, but I dropped C++ because I hated it.

Also, if you're in Network Security, don't you need to know how to hack? And to understand hacking/counter-hacking measures don't you need to know different programming languages?

>>976874

Is it impossible to find work as a Network Admin with only a two-year degree? What I'm doing now can transition into a BS degree, but desu I'm really over school and just want to work.

Not fresh out of high-school, I'm 24. Worked for a few years and saved money before starting college.

>>976875
>>Also, if you're in Network Security, don't you need to know how to hack?
Not even remotely close to being true.
Network security is more about creating policies+ proceudres and making sure your staff follows them, configuring your devices properly, and making sure you have the correct types of products positioned on your network.

>counter-hacking measures
You're watching too many TV shows.

>>976878
>Is it impossible to find work as a Network Admin with only a two-year degree?
You don't really need a degree to get into IT (maybe to get past HR filtering, depending on where your applying).
IT is mostly a meritocracy - experience and knowledge will get your farther than a piece of paper.

>>976875
>>976878
Ps Network admin/security "degrees" from community college are a fucking meme.

You won't get a job because it's useless as fuck, but it's probably just the right job for you since you don't seem to know anything and want to earn money doing nothing. If you can find one that is tho

>>976881
To add on to that, no company in their right mind is going to let you touch their network if you have zero experience in the field.

Try to get a junior admin position if possible, or if you can't do that get a general helpdesk job at a smallish MSP.

>>976883

I know they're a joke, but I didn't want to go straight to uni and acquire fucking 100k in debt when I can go to CC and get my grants pay for it all.

How else do you break into a field such a Network Admin without any degree? Entry level without any college for that job doesn't exist.

The only guys I know who skipped college in a CS field were self-taught programmers or guys who just did certs and got lucky.

>>976890
>I know they're a joke, but I didn't want to go straight to uni and acquire fucking 100k in debt when I can go to CC and get my grants pay for it all

It's not 100k debt, even if you move out for school it's like 40k debt at most. Which easily pays itself off with grants, working during the summer/while in school or internships.

>How else do you break into a field such a Network Admin without any degree? Entry level without any college for that job doesn't exist

By getting a degree or actually having a knowledge/passion. But network admins don't do jack shit, it's literally being a NEET: the job. And companies started to realize they're hiring NEETs to do nothing all day and started paying a lot less/cutting back on them.

>>976886
I looked into many junior admin positions, they all want bachelors minimum with anywhere for 2-5 years experience in "systems/network admin".

Why would a junior position require that? I did smaller shit jobs before college (obviously) because no degree. So when I finish (even if it is worthless, might as well just wrap it up), am I really going to be stuck doing helpdesk for years to just build some sort of experience?

>>976890
Sorry you're fucked if you don't want to study hard. Go get a 4 year degree.

>>976896
helpdesk won't even count as "experience"

>>976895

Oh boy! Knowledge and passion? Damn, I didn't know that was the secret to getting past the down-syndrome HR screening.

And yeah, I know It's an ezpzy job. I didn't choose it for that reason, it generally interested me. I've always enjoyed learning more about networking, servers, etc.

If you have any other non-programming IT/CS career path recommendations, please by all means tell me.

>>976899
You're getting memed on if you think network admins don't do anything all day. Any company that has a big enough network(s) to require a dedicated network person is always going to have a ton of projects+problems for you to work on.

God help you if you end up as an admin for an IT services provided.

>>976899
If you get a 4 year degree in something lame like MIS you can IT consulting. It's not the worst gig in the world and you can move on from there eventually.

>>976897

I don't mind studying hard, it's just getting boring. It's easy as fuck. As I stated early, I just decided to START in a CC because it's infinitely cheaper and I can xfer to a Uni nearby.

Where/how would you recommend I start to get "experience" in this sort of field so I don't graduate and have just the useless piece of paper. As I said even the entry-level junior positions want years of experience. So just internships then?

>>976899
>>976899
>Oh boy! Knowledge and passion? Damn, I didn't know that was the secret to getting past the down-syndrome HR screening.

It doesn't sound like you're very passionate or knowledgeable in the area. Sounds a lot like you're just looking for some CSI-tier job where you press a bunch of buttons and get paid for it. Without actually having any knowledge of anything. What do you know so far?

>If you have any other non-programming IT/CS career path recommendations, please by all means tell me

Why are you so against programming? How are you suppose to understand how computers and software works if you don't even know anything about how it works on a low level?

>>976901
>You're getting memed on if you think network admins don't do anything all day. Any company that has a big enough network(s) to require a dedicated network person is always going to have a ton of projects+problems for you to work on

More like literally sitting at your computer reading reddit/memechan all day until a server has problems or something. Oh and helping retards with trivial problems all day long.
You people don't do shit... at least half your workday is spent browsing the internet.

>>976903
Internships. Co-ops if your school has that kind of system. I know my old company employed a lot of co-ops over the school year (CS and EE folks) and we gave the good ones jobs after they graduated.

>>976905

I was passionate for awhile about it, but starting to lose steam. Hated school my whole life, but got by getting all B's and C's because it was easy.

I just dislike programming, don't know what to say. Took my first C++ course and couldn't stand it, dropped it to retake next semester since I was taking a lot classes at the time anyways.

>>976911
>>976911
>I just dislike programming, don't know what to say. Took my first C++ course and couldn't stand it

I don't think the technology field is for you.

Programming is incredibly intuitive and necessary to know to be able to understand anything borderline-worthwhile.

An intro C++ course, especially in community college is easy as fuck. What did you have to do - write hello world and learn what an array is?

>>976911
What do you actually want to accomplish with your life?

>>976909
>More like literally sitting at your computer reading reddit/memechan all day until a server has problems or something
I hardly have time to take a lunch break most days. Like every other employee in the world, I have multiple projects with deadlines that need to be worked on. That's in addition to constant monitoring, and remediation if there's an outage or some other network issue.

>Oh and helping retards with trivial problems all day long.
Network Admins don't interact with end-users at all.

>>976921
>I hardly have time to take a lunch break most days. Like every other employee in the world, I have multiple projects with deadlines that need to be worked on. That's in addition to constant monitoring, and remediation if there's an outage or some other network issue

That's bullshit. I interned as a jr network admin before and there was literally nothing to do. You'd do some menial tasks for an hour or two then you just sat at your desk or walked around drinking coffee or something. It was actually incredibly boring, I wished for more stuff to do.

>Network Admins don't interact with end-users at all

I meant other employees. Always having to walk around and fix dumb ass shit that the morons who got somehow hired there couldn't do.


Fuck that, study software engineering so you don't become a codemonkey or subhuman NEET for the rest of your pitiful life(or until they fire you and replace you with someone much cheaper).

I'm thinking of going into CS or something, or doing a minor in it, or even a double major

WHAT DO CS PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO THOUGH?

I want to learn how to protect against hackers, create software, write apps, and make games, as well as hack games and websites and basically 'hack' things.

My parents are rich, i don't need to go to college to get a job, I just need to go to get qualifications, but I want to do something interesting and fun, and I have no prior coding experience, except basic css and html

is coding fun? is making stuff fun? rewarding? etc?

>>976924
I guess that's your experience with whatever company you worked for, then. All we both have is anecdotal evidence. I the sole networking guy for an international company that's constantly acquiring other companies (that often have atrocious networks that need to be completely ripped out and re-designed). Lots to do.

I'll agree that any job that entails working with end-users is shit tier and should be avoided by anyone that isn't a complete moron.

>>976930
Fun and rewarding are entirely subjective.

Literally any career can be "fun" and "rewarding" to one person and not the next.
Sounds like you watched too much Television and have the wrong impression of what that really is like.

>>976934
Ok so what do you personally usually do when servers are running smoothly?

And how often do they have problems? Let's be real here senpai, you don't do much most days.

>>976918

Truthfully? To find a career/job I actually enjoy doing. I'm not looking to be rich, I don't care if it's a 30-40k/year job, just something I won't go insane doing so I can put some change in my pocket and focus on what I actually care about at home which is esports/competitive gaming. Fucked, I know, but very true. I've made decent money from tournaments 5+ years ago and boosting retards accounts in multiple games.

I'm also with someone who is making close to triple figures that doesn't give a shit what I do, as long as I'm working/happy. So yeah, sorry if the passion on this one is 'low'.

>>976960
>focus on what I actually care about at home which is esports/competitive gaming

Ah. Another gaymer that wants to do "something with computers" but doesn't actually have any skills or passion for it.

You could've just added that in the OP so we knew what kind of person we were dealing with here.

>>976967

Thing is, I did actually care. I took every computer-related course my high school had to offer and loved everything outside of the VB programming. I got my A+ and Network+ certification from there and I enjoyed it.

I just think the break between then and starting school again changed me, the passion wore off and I realized I went from disliking programming to hating it. It wasn't a complete "something with computers" case. Trust me, I know people like that. May seem that way now with me, but yeah.

>>976957
>Ok so what do you personally usually do when servers are running smoothly?
I don't touch servers.

We recently resigned our entering switching infrastructure at our data centers (80 or so switches in total). That took up most of my time for the past 2 months.

Next thing on the list is implementing a partial-mesh MPLS between all our offices (31 in total).

Long-term project is researching SDN and seeing if it makes sense to implement into our network. If it does that's the next project.

This is in addition to fielding general complaints about the network (full blown outages are rare, but latency and slowness are a near daily complaint since we have shitty VPNs between our offices).

>>976869
Frankly, as many developers I've worked with that couldn't program to save their lives, I don't think even development jobs require programming aptitude.

>>976942

well i mean like, yeah there aren't many 'realistic' CS shows, lmao

but what do you actually, like give me a story about a day in the life of a CS person, or a network engineer, or w/e

what do they "do"

>>977165
Most programmers just start the day by doing bullshit email, work on their current bullshit project, then test their bullshit project. The important part is liking what ever that "bullshit" part is, or at the very least thinking its kind of cool.

>>977165

Been doin it about 8 years.

In that time I've worked on:

- A web app for companies to manage web site publications.

- A mobile app to replace loyalty punch cards.

- A web app for internal use at a company to make transferring and manipulating huge amounts of data easier for laymen.

- A video game.

- Shit loads of automation and deployment scripts.

Its all fun and rewarding. If you like making things and experience joy when people use things you make you'll love it.

File: brogrammers.jpg (77KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 500x500px

>>977165
>>978611

More on what you actually "do":

20% meetings where you decide how to make things and estimate how long it will take.

70% typing code with tunes on your headphones havin a grand time solving puzzles and coming up with creative solutions to complex problems.

10% staring at a debug console of some sort losing your mind and using every profane word you know because [some bug] just doesn't make sense.

Networking stuff and crypto/security requires a stunningly low amount of practical coding knowledge. If you can at least know/guess what the parts do then you are pretty much as good as you need to be. You should know how to terminal and how to work unix stuff though.

>>976875
>know how to hack?

You're not WRONG but its a little more complex than that. You need to know what kinds of attacks are possible, what potential entry vectors are, and seal them up. Hacking is the inverse of this process. It obviously uses different software which you might not be familiar with but the mindset is similar.

Most of netsec is just crossing the Ts and dotting the Is, smarter people than you figured out how to block xyz attack years ago and your job is just to implement that and make sure your systems are all up to date and nobody is plugging in unauthorized usbs or something.