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Trading stocks for a living

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Thread replies: 51
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All right /biz/, first time poster here.

I'll try to keep this short since I don't wanna waste too much of your time. How viable is it to earn serious money through stock trading if you're a decently smart guy? I'd like to think I've got good quantitative skills as I've got a Master's in applied physics with a bunch of advanced graduate mathematics and mathematical modeling courses. I've also got some good experience with programming and algorithms.

So yeah essentially my questions are, how hard is it to earn a good living from trading stocks? (I'm assuming extremely fucking hard but any input would be nice). Anyone here make good money from trading stocks?

>inb4 if you're so smart why don't you google it
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>>959223
How much starting principal do you have?
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>>959228
as I recently graduated... not a lot. I'd say I've got $2000 at the most that I could stand to lose.
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>>959233
If you're going to trade big boards, you're going to lose money on $2000. As soon as you enter a trade, assuming you go all in, you're already down 1% due to commission.

Big boards don't move enough for you to make more than $50 on a 3-5 day swing trade.

You need, say, $100,000. Then you can make some real money.

That said, I started with 3k in 2013. My gross account contribution over the life of my account is 5k. In 2.2 years, I grossed $90k, netting $47k. So, it's possible. Just not likely.
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>>959223
Sauce on the cum dumpster?
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>>959237
>My gross account contribution over the life of my account is 5k. In 2.2 years, I grossed $90k, netting $47k
Damn, those are some solid numbers. Where/how did you start trading if not the big boards?
>>
On a semi-related note, I'd like to get into aggressive quant trading with some of my cash...like quantopia..but I don't want to develop my own algo. I've been to Quantopia's site but I can't figure out how to invest in it.....or find any algo trading to invest in that isn't a scam.

Any advice?
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Potentially relevant, I have been learning about trading derivatives rather than the underlying security outright..

They obviously carry more leverage, and thus risk, but it looked like a viable swing trading avenue.. Any input on this?

I'd like to trade micro/mini futures and non-binary options when I have the appropriate margin.
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>>959242
I started with penny stocks. Specifically sub penny stocks, mostly under $0.002. I do not recommend this, but that's how I did it.
My risk tolerance isn't the same anymore, so I don't trade them. I can say with confidence, that I couldn't do it again.
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>>959246
This would work for you OP. There are a lot of x3 ETFs that move decent enough for you to come out with $100 on a decent swing.

I know nothing about futures though.
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>>959223
So no sauce? I've given you two free bumps op
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>>959250
Bro it's just some random slut
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>>959240
>>959250
My apologies. Her name is Lia Marie Johnson. Have another picture.
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>>959240
I think that's Miley dude

>>959223
If you're remotely good at math Learn Options and other derivative trading. Pure equities are only viable relative to these, when liquidity is an issue, when you're slamming Millions of dollars per trade down.


With options:
You can limit the capital you risk, but you'll need about 6k in order to get started and get permissioned. and if you're day trading the law says you need 25k to do more than 5 a week.

https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/shows/the-skinny-on-options-math/episodes/probability-of-profit-08-06-2015
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>>959247
where would you start instead? I apologize for asking what you probably consider to be stupid questions but I really want to get as much out of this thread as possible.
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>>959255
Thanks OP. Here's a third bump for you with my gratitude
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>>959258
Awesome post, thanks.

>If you're remotely good at math
I would consider myself to be very competent in math, took calc 1-4, linear algebra classes, diff equation classes and statistics as an undergraduate, took more advanced mathematical modelling courses as a graduate. Anything in particular I should study up on that's not on this list?
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>>959260
much appreciated.
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>>959264
I thought that would tickle your pickle.

nah you're ready dude. Money's generally simpler than physics.
But you could do some really advanced modeling, and if that leads to trade decisions, you'd need to be able to code it.

https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/shows/market-measures/episodes/position-sizing-defined-risk-09-10-2015

beyond that, learn the mechanics of all the tools at your disposal. Gain some market awareness, before you make the big plays.
A raw stock goes up or it goes down its a 50/50 shot.
Even simple options strategies highly improve your probability to 70% or higher.
A key strategy to every investor. B/c of loss ordering.
https://www.tastytrade.com/tt/shows/from-theory-to-practice/episodes/sequence-of-returns-11-12-2015

This guys a phd in math. explaining ratio order of operations.
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>>959223

Dude just get a job at a prop firm if you have those kind of credentials. You can probably find a place that'll do a small base salary + no capital contribution. Try Jane Street or Trillium in NYC. There are a bunch of good ones in Chicago, I think Optiver pays a salary.

What ever you do, don't waste time with the memesters here when you can easily get capitalized
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Not to mention. Both Risk and Capital requirements are lower.

http://dropcanvas.com/zpf5p

The bible of Options trading is in this canvas. its a few years old but not much has changed.
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>>959313
This would be a great plan.
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>ITT faggots who think there's a correlation between intelligence and picking winning trades
All. my. keks.
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>>959347
There is a correlation between intelligence, and Picking a losing trade and still winning.
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Just read some books and then realize that you probably won't be able to make money being a trader.
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>>959352
are you chinese bro?
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>>959237
>you're going to lose money on $2k
wat
>1% commission
WAT
>$100k
What is this, the 80's?

>>959242
He's a faggot. He probably knows what he's doing, but look into margin account. You can start with $1k just fine (or better yet, demo until you get the hang of it).

>>959248
>leveraged ETFs
Stay the fuck away from "leveraged"-anything. It's a bunch of bullshit.

>>959259
Any forex, index and so on, broker. They give you 100-500x leverage (account margin) on most heavily traded products. Stocks as well depending on broker, but not as much leverage (still a few times). The only fees you should pay are built into the spread already, so EURUSD might have a 1.5 pip spread or whatever (I don't even pay attention), and that's the only "fee" you pay. There are some with commissions, but still, they should only represent about 0.7 pips (less than 1/50 of your average trade) or so, in exchange for a super tight spread.

>>959352
Intelligence isn't involved much, no. Intelligence might make you over-think things, even. It generally helps, but what you mostly need, and what makes or breaks a trader, is having the balls to go through with your plan.

That's the most important step to trading: making plans on how to handle situations, and then executing them without hesitation. That's why it's so difficult, because people get nervous with money.

>>959363
>He hasn't actually tried it
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>>959352
You Engrish bery bad.
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>>959316
>http://dropcanvas.com/zpf5p

Where is it in there? They all have funny names
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>>959410
its the .djvu file

lawrence mcmillan options as strategic investments
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>>959414

Thanks bruh
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>>959243
>or find any algo trading to invest in that isn't a scam.


Umm. They are out there, but they're not letting you (or anyone else) invest. For obvious reasons.

Since you got the skills, develop your own algo. It's way better than bitching and whining in scam-forums how you don't get your money back.
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>>959414

1000 pages, daayyyyyyyyuuuuum lets do it
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>>959243

Buy stock in Virtu I guess
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>>959319

if you have a PhD sure. if not good fucking luck.
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>>959386
>have 2k
>enter a position with 2k
>incur $20 in commission fees in total
>percent gain instantly reduced by 1%

Having around 100k would afford him the ability to be a lot more nimble with his trades.

Leveraged ETFs are fine if you can determine the direction of the market on an intra-day basis. They're not for investing.
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>>959500
If you enter a trade with 100% of your capital, you are doing it completely wrong. Trade small, trade often.
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>>959500
With only 2k, he would have no other choice.

>trade small
>enter position with $500
>instantly lose fucking 4% to commission

Good joke dude

I'm not implying that he should go all in with the 100k either.
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bruh theres a commission free firms out there , and im in the same boat im trying to make a living off trading but i learned to aquire the knowledge you need first, and you can never predict the market , you can try and it might work, but theres no way to especially if youre a small guy on the markets, you have to be some insider or have a huge following to pump stocks up but it aint worth going to prison for that shit, but im with u on this one, does any here day trade for a living and knows of any strategy?
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>>959386
If he wants to be able to live off of at least $2000 a month and live off his trading then he needs to make a 100% return a month and use all of the capital gains that he makes to support himself. 100k is not an unrealistic minimum amount of money that you need to have in order to support yourself daytrading. Also when you consider that most brokerages charge $7-$10 round trip and that,in order to make an extremely high rate of return like 100% a month he will not only have to be the greatest trader who ever lived but he'll also have to be trading constantly which will incur lots of commissions.
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>>959527
those commission free firms like robinhood aren't the ideal brokerages for daytraders, which is what he'd have to be in order to make a high enough rate of return to live off of. Did you know that robinhood charges 5% for market orders. He'd have to use limit orders and robinhood isn't as fast as other brokerages when it comes to entering and exiting the market.
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>>959386
>>He hasn't actually tried it
I've lost $8000 trading Israeli penny stocks
>inb4 good goy
>>
You are not in a position to leverage your technical skills. Oh, and you have no money.

If you want to make money at this point (while using your technical skills...which aren't that much), your best bet is to start your career in finance. Otherwise, you're probably going to have an easier life in a corporate engineering division...which also will be decently rewarded salary-wise.
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>>959604
>make money
Does anyone here actually want to make money?
I personally just want some pussy and then to be left alone to play some Fallout 4 and Halo 5.
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>>959593
You are keeping it real but its not actually that hard to make huge trades.

I mean... when you break it right down there is probably a double out there once per month. Like, Weight Watchers, that was the easiest money ever.

If he makes then loses then makes he might average 5% if hes lucky per every 3 trades. You get about 10 trades a month. That is 50%+ if you can find that double then can be 150%. I guess it sounds crazy but its possible.

Yeah, I know its just true that you'll get hugely fucked on a stock trade once per month too.

75% a month is still okay - 30% for taxes, its about 850 after commissions.

Not good so what I would say is... get 4000, invest 2000, live on 2000 see if you can live with parents, offer to buy them food and share rent then you buy yourself 4 months, go all in every trade.

If he is talented should be growing his 2k slowly could be at 7k by third month.

7k a trade = 2000 if you get a 30% play. So every big play = month of rent.

If he can do that well per month, then can move on his own.

I would say 100k is nice but being smart enough to properly day trade 100k is fucking insane and would take a lot of work and knowledge about risk management. I would still just go with small blocks of 20k in this case but just trade debt free every day.
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>>959610

Then go get some. Alternatively, if that doesn't work, ask your mom, sister or brother. Asking your dad is gay.
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>>959610
Fuck yeah I want to make money, I have bills to pay and the more money I make the less bills I pay.

>Pay off mortgage, no more principle/interest payments
>Own 100k of dividend paying stock, effectively no more real estate tax
>Own enough land for proper industrial grade solar panels, no more electricity bill
>Own enough land for farming, with profits high enough to pay for workers and managers, no more grocery bill
>Own 3-4 business partnerships, use low-maintenance revenue stream to quit day job

My life goals are all about finally being self sufficient so I can take a risk-free nap.
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>>959629
I usually just lurk but I feel obligated to tell you that you're absolutely retarded
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>>959629
If you could average 5% a week then you would be the most successful trader who has ever lived beating the returns of the worlds greatest traders like Seykota and Livermore by many multiples. The chances of someone being able to do what you just described are unimaginably tiny.
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dam why are all u guys over complicating it.
> Buy relatively cheap stocks.
> Sell them when they start booming.
> Have a job just incase shit doesnt go to plan.
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>>959223
get a job
Thread posts: 51
Thread images: 7


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