Tax thread - not avoiding, but minimizing crypto withdrawal tax

>>3427571
jesus fucking christ, in the UK capital gains is like 0 on the first £11,000, and 10% up to £44,500

How about buying stuff directly with BTC.

>>3427584
Yeh 0 on the first $10k, but thats not even near a lot of people's profit

>>3427589
That is an option, but i think soon the government will insist on knowing how much BTC you have... even though they wont be able to prove it, the ATO are some crafty fuckers and they will find out.

Ive heard people fud that tax needs to be paid on every transaction from one crypto to another. Also something about holding for 12 months. Can someone explain?

>>3427571

Amerifag here. Long term capital gains (>1 yr) are taxed at 0% on up to 35k single 75k married. After that the next 325k is at 15% and after that 20%. So if you build a passive income that will likely net you 35k a year, you could theoretically pay no income tax as a NEET.

Ausfag here, They can fuck right off, If my gains are substantial enough, move to NZ cash out come back. INNOVATION NATION.

>>3427749

I would like someone to explain that too. These things jump relative values so damn much it is entirely impractical to examine each transaction.

experienced accountant here. the treat of cryptocurrency by the ato is different depending on the use/sale/purchase and intent on it. I have worked with numerous clients in the blockchain industry and there are a wide range of issues. almost every year some new ruling is done currently in may of 2017 a ruling regarding of gst was made. so its a on-going process.

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Tax-treatment-of-crypto-currencies-in-Australia---specifically-bitcoin/

that should give u as much info quickly however if you tell me you're exact position and what you are doing then i can give me a much better advice including yes the 50% capital gains discount.

my btc address

1F4bydSP55siTqUnCwn7h3PtHX2JVzkPSJ

if anyone wants specific advice send a small donation, tell me the donation amount so i know its you and i'll tell you the advice.

>>3427571
how will they know whats profit? they cant.

>>3427857
You have to withdraw one day... when they see you withdraw 100k, they'll look at how much you sent to the exchange initially and consider the difference profit.

>>3427857
>>3427884
Unless you HODL until the world changes

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>>3427571
Isn't Ausfag CGT bracketed?

You only have to pay that amount if you're earning a shitton that year and you don't hold the asset for more then 12mo so no 50% CGT discount

If you're a poor NEET you'll pay shit all.

>>3427571
Buy some shit in another country, McShip it to your home, resell it, no big deal :v)

Im scared to cashout I have 0 records kept and have made 100s of transactions and hold 1mil in crypto...how far up my ass will the government crawl If I cash out?

>>3427925
What's the definition of "asset" though. Do you have to hold each individual shitcoin for more than 12months? Or is it enough to stay in cryptos as a class for 12 months, before converting to Fiat.

>>3427571
In New Zealand we have 0% capital gains tax.

Why not just come to New Zealand considering you will automatically be granted residency.

>>3427959
Doesn't the exchange keep transaction records?

>>3427963
Ask an actual accountant, but they probably work like shares, so individual coins

Why couldn't you tumble it through Monero and then claim it was a gift from a nigerian prince? Or why don't we all start another Plutus payroll scheme. Took them a while to catch onto that

>>3427971
That's what I said

>>3427989
Then id be worried about not being able to prove that the money was gained legally

Dear fellow leafs,
Move to another country and declare non-residency. Aim for a country where English is minimal.
Nobody will care what you earn where because it's too hard to track down.

>>3427571
>when tax evasion threads appear is the time you realize most people cashed out already.

FUG

>>3427571
>paying taxes
What are you, a fucking socialist?

>>3427925
This is correct, I don't know where OP is getting the 48% figure from.

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Spend it, don't cash it.

>>3427852

>the treat of cryptocurrency
>if you tell me you're exact position
>i'll tell you the advice

Are you really an accountant or a pajeet? Is English your native language?

so wrong. unless you are paying 48% on your normal income, you wont pay that much for crypto gains

>>3428101
If you earn more than $180.000/year in Austalia tax is $54,232 + 45c for each $1

>>3428088
Indian piece of shit obviously

>>3427749
Holding for 12 months is only for Europeans (or at least some Europeans).

Your capital gains are realized after every single trade in America, and every time you make a trade, you get taxed.

>>3427884
I'll be withdrawing to an offshore account. Eat a dick, ATO.

>>3428415
$54.232*

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>>3427749
In Austria that is the case
>https://www.bmf.gv.at/steuern/kryptowaehrung_Besteuerung.html#heading_Kryptowaehrungen_im_Privatvermoegen
It says that if you hold something for less than 12 months you have to pay speculation taxes on it, even if you just trade BTC for a shitcoin or back. It really sucks, that there is no € market for most coins, that means, if you want to invest tax free into DGB for example, you have to:
Buy BTC, hold 1 year, then buy DGB, hold one year, sell for BTC, hold one year.
Otherwise each step will be taxed.
Also miners have to pay company taxes on their mined coins, lol

>>3427571
Wait 1 year. If your like 80% of America making less than 35k/year it's all tax free.

>>3428518
They start taxing well below the poverty line in this shithole.

>>3427852
Here's some FREE advice, hodl for more than 12 months since your last trade and pay fuck all tax not that hard

>>3427971
I will be doing that :)

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>>3428527
Same here in Austria, they start taxing you after the first cent you make

>>3428543
It's not that bad here. The threshold is 20k or something but there's nowhere near as much free shit from the govt here compared to western Europe.

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>>3428569
People dont get much free shit here in Austria? Are you insane? Outside of Vienna probably only the farmers who aren't able to work profitable and thus need heavy EU gibsmedats.
But in Vienna it is absolutely insane how much our welfare leeches get. Free apartment + free healthcare + Mindestsicherung (800€ + a few hundred for every niglet, right?).
Just look at how much more debt the city Vienna had to take on within the last few years, it is absolutely insane.

>>3428601
I meant here in Australia, dude.

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>>3428611
Ah my bad
Yeah Australia has much more liberty than Austria, sadly

>>3427584
>>3427766
Basically the best tax minimisation method is to keep it as Bitcoin.

Only withdraw when you need it.

Diversify into other cryptos rather than traditional methods (although gains may theoretically be taxable at that conversion point...)

>>3427971
Im a kiwi now fuck australia

Say all your gains were from bitcoin gambling. No gambling taxes in aus.

I have no idea if this would even close to work just an idea.

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ausfag here absolutely fucking lmao at paying crypto gains to fund abo and single mom programs

>implying i wont just convert all my gains to BTC and say i mined it or won it gambling
>implying im going to pay taxes on the gains that are the very things that are perfect for dodging taxes

>>3428923
> auditing
u fukd

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It's always funny, when hamburgers and kangaroos starts talking about their taxes.

I invest: $10,000
I withdraw: $20,000
Profit is: $10,000
15% tax from profit: $1,500

--------------------------------
I invest 10k, cash out 20k, tax is 1.5k

>>3427925
That's income tax, I think crypto is treated differently, specifically capital gains tax, which is higher.

>>3427571

>Be kiwi
>0 taxes on crypto
>Dont declare any crypto
>Gov pays me weekly social allowance (benefit) because "poor"
>Richer than most people around me

Feels pretty good man, wish I had a GF tho.

>>3429019
>a progressive tax system is complex

>>3427971
>considering you will automatically be granted residency.
Does this apply to europoors aswell?

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>>3429147
to be this retarded is truly a gem of the universe. you think NZ just let's in any Eurotrash ? we have Aus / NZ trade partnership you dumb cunt

>>3427971
>>3429081
But is bitcoin not treated as foreign exchange for tax purposes in NZ?

Meaning you would have to pay tax

so i bought 50 dollars of bitcoin on coinbase and transferred it to bittrex

will IRS fuck my asshole ?

>>3429053
Unless you're a business or trust you pay income tax on your realized capital gains that year + your wage and other shit

You do get a 50% discount on your CGT portion if you've held the asset for more then 12 months though.

Capital gains literally gets taxed less then income from working a job, that's why so many people do the negative geared housing meme

>>3429230
yes, and so will I and my Muslim brothers . we will highly jig anything
.we don't even care what gender. shakbaar akheuer

>>3429488
so 36k worth cashed out before you'd need to declare tax assuming no income other than crypto?

>>3429549
Probably. If you make that much cryptodosh you can afford a session with a tax accountant who can figure out exactly what you need to do.

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>>3427571
>Avoiding tax is wrong and you will get caught. Pay the taxes until crypto takes over the world and you wont have to any more ;)

taxes are fucking inmoral you aussie bootlicker cunt
STATISTS GTFO /biz/ REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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48% of your hodld btc is ours now

Fuck u neets

>>3427571
Why would you pay taxes (which is extorsion) when you can not pay them?

Simply spend your BTC on stuff. That's it.

Since you do not withdraw, no taxes.

So what if I negative geared an investment property or 3 so that I could pull out some crypto at close to 0% tax every financial year because of tax write offs?
Rinse and repeat with multiple houses

>Where you use bitcoin to purchase goods or services for personal use or consumption, any capital gain or loss from disposal of the bitcoin will be disregarded (as a personal use asset) provided the cost of the bitcoin is $10,000 or less.

So can I just buy a whole shitload of pre-paid $9,999 VISA cards?

>>3429745
Could also just live off bitcoin for daily expenses forever true?
Make the money back in what you don't spend off your salary.
Obviously this involves having a job which is difficult for a lot of tards on this board

>>3429696
I was thinking this exact thing at work today

If an online store accepted crypto you could hypothetically but visa gift cards to buy groceries with and stuff right?

What about bitcoin atms? Never used one before but do they keep track of your identity when you withdraw?

Haven't actually looked at it, but have heard you can use the satoshisloungeroom website to pay credit card bills...... would be easy for ATO to track you though I guess

>>3429803
Sorry, living room of satoshi

>>3429783
They would track your wallet but if you kept reciepts for personal use stuff like food, games, whatever as long as each withdrawl is below 10k i think its fine

>>3429818
Does purchasing a gift card with crypto count as a withdrawal though?

You need this. Erik Voorhees' (shapeshift.io founder) https://saltlending.com. Avoids 30% capital gains tax completely. Tokens should be out on exchanges in a few weeks.

>>3429854
Nice.

>>3429775
Hmmm, maybe it means less than $10,000 per annum.

Aus capital gains tax for crypto reduces to 25% if you hold for over 12 months I think...

You can also avoid tax by buying directly with crypto. One option is to get a Coinjar card which is basically an Eftpos card for buying/selling shit. Has a small conversion fee though. Bitpay is an option for international purchases.

>>3427971
I'm from NZ too, won't you have to pay income tax though if you make frequent trades?

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T USA brainlet

Bitcoin is an asset of a specific variety and has been luckily hedged in this year via previously ambiguous laws. And thought I would shed a little more light, as the posts on this thread seem to be more aimed at the Longer than annum investment.

There is no "Wash Loss" protocol on within year investments - what this means is that if you have an investment shorter than annum, you can declare a loss on investments larger than 600 USD, meaning that per annum you can post up to 3,000 dollars in losses to be counted against your "Gains".

Any trade or purchase under 600 dollars is tax exempt. [Seeing that it would cost the IRS a massive amount of money to track down a few bucks in trades].

As far as margin trading goes, it can be case sensitive - and you may want to actually get advice as per margin trading for ICO, "non coins" and Bitcoin.

All in all spending 100 bucks on an actual tax consultant to save you a couple of grand and hours of figuring this stuff out will work in your favor and will ultimately save you the problem of getting audited, also~ Most tax consultants have Audit insurance, so if you do get audited, they'll continue coverage through the Audit.

(ie ipso, if you spend 100 bucks on a tax consultant, it will save you thousands in the long run from hiring an audit lawyer/consultant)

>>3428511
That's disgusting.
They are literally stealing from people.

>>3427571
48%! Fuck me, that's high. Is the Aistralian government that hard up for money they need to fuck you that hard? Fuck that.

>>3427957
Lol if i resell it here ill still have to declare it as earnings... you have to declare even an ebay business

>>3427959
man thats some scary shit. Im just getting started, dream is to be on the level that you are! wish i had even 1 bitcoin...

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I have an Excel crypto portfolio template, if anyone wants it to start keeping track of your records.

It's not too late.