REMINDER: Q3 ESTIMATED TAXES

>>3275973
>invest 100% of net worth into crypto
>make enormous gains
>get hacked
>IRS wants assload of taxes and you have no cash

>>3275995
if you truly lost the coins, you could claim the massive loss if you wanted to. you'd probably be audited though.

>>3275973
"While it is crystal clear, the IRS excludes assets treated as inventory or stock in trade from Section 1031 treatment, as would be the case where a 1031 is attempted by a bitcoin dealer or professional trader, making 1031 effectively unavailable, no explicit guidance has been issued to clarify whether one digital currency is “like kind” with another. That being said, it remains a question whether Bitcoin is like kind with Ethereum, for example, and thus would qualify for a 1031 exchange. Additionally, the receipt of “boot” or other non-like kind property, I.E. cash, gold or silver can cause a portion of the gain potentially qualifying for 1031 deferral to be disallowed. While it would seem at present logical that Section 1031 would apply to cryptocurrencies as they are deemed capital assets, this treatment cannot be confirmed without specific Federal and State guidance on the question of whether one cryptocurrency is like kind with another."

fuck right off

>>3276010
How can the IRS tell if you shapeshifted everything into monero or if a hacker did it?

>>3275973
This only applies if you cash out any crypto into fiat. As long as you're still trading stuff based in BTC, normal capital gains tax rules apply

>>3276019
they can't, really. it's your responsibility to report everything you need to be taxed on. so either report everything, or risk not reporting everything, it's your choice. I recommend reporting everything.

>>3276024
all I'm talking about is "normal capital gain tax rules," and every trade is taxable. technically, it's still a gray zone until the IRS provides more guidance, as described in the link I provided, but there's a 99.999% chance that every trade will be taxable, so you should report everything if you don't want to be audited.

>>3276019
they know, they watch

>>3276010
>capital losses capped at $3k
>capital gains capped at infinity

>>3275973
If you were making serious money in crypto, it may be worth hiring an accountant to help with this but for anyone with less than like $10k in crypto this is a massive waste of time and you should just pay capital gains tax when and if you cash out to fiat.

Keeping track of every bitcoin/shitcoin exchange is autism incarnate.

>>3276161
>https://klasing-associates.com/possible-1031-exchange-bitcoin-ethereum-electroniccrypto-currencies/

yeah, this is so fucked up

you won money doing this? good. pay us.
you lost money? fuck off.

>>3276175
I've made a lot of money, so I have no choice but to do it all properly. but I still think it's a good idea for small timers to do it properly as well, for the same reason I started to do it in the first place.

I was losing money the first couple of years, then BOOM, 2017 hit and that all changed. so now, I'm selling coins that were purchased 3 years ago. if my records aren't complete over the past 3 years, then well - that will be difficult for me to file without either fudging the numbers or just paying tax on 100% of the net proceeds outright.

so if you start off doing it correctly, then you won't run into problems when you do get rich.

>>3276236
how do you handle putting up a sell order only for the exchange to turn your order into like a dozen or more separate transactions in different amoutns and possibly at different prices?

i was planning to just copy and paste from binance, gemini, and bittre when doing my taxes in april 2017. didnt know i have to pay estimated quarterly taxes on $5k of gains. fuck.

AFAIK, you just report your holdings when you do your taxes in april, not every quarter.

>>3276268
I am a developer by trade, so I've created databases to do most of the heavy lifting for me, but in general I report every one of the transactions.

the important thing is you report the correct cost basis per lot, because that's how the gains will be tracked. I did get a little looser this year in a couple of situations and just recorded exactly what I put on the sell order as 1 trade instead of the 40 it created, but the actual net proceeds calculation difference there if I was audited would be only pennies, or less. I have been doing it right for a few years, so I'm comfortable with that, but most people should probably should just record everything.

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Hey fuck faces , any of you have student loans? You do? Well good news, the interest is tax deductible. But not interest accrued, only tax paid. So pay your fucking student loan interest off (principle payments not deductible) first you fuck faces.

If you have held bitcoin or Ethereum for less than one year, the gains are taxed as ordinary income. So good news, if you just got in this year, and made less than $10,900.00 than you don't have to pay taxes on it either. Fuckers. If you did make more, fucking declare it, fuck faces.

If you've held more than one year, then guess what fuckers, it's capital gains tax. And for most of you that's 15%. But if you're a broke ass bitch with no ordinary income then you only have to pay the tax if your gains are over $10,900.00 a year.

On another note. Am I wrong for thinking that capital gains tax isn't due until you convert to USD ?? I am pretty sure that if you hold bitcoin forever, you only have to pay tax once you take it out of your portfolio and into your wallet.

>>3276391
>On another note. Am I wrong for thinking that capital gains tax isn't due until you convert to USD ??
yes, but it's not 100% yet. the safe, and highly recommended approach is to pay tax on every trade. if you want to explore claiming altcoin transactions as 1031 like-kind exchanges to carry over the cost basis from the first transaction and delay the taxation until you cash out, then you should consult with a tax attorney.

>>3276391
It's 6 months for cgt not a year fuck face. And yes after converting to fiat you fuck.

>>3276437
Why not just pay 15% of how much you've made?

>>3276480
because the 15% is only for lots that you've held for over a year. if they IRS can tax you 25-30% on a trade because it's a short term gain, then they are going to.

>>3276505
But that's only if you cash out.

Normally you are just going to pay the 15% in april of whatever you made for that year.

>>3276437
How do you pay taxes in fiat on every trade if you aren't cashing out any fiat?

If I traded 2 apples for 3 oranges 1 day and then the next day I trade 3 oranges for 4 apples do I owe the IRS an apple?

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>>3276505
So I just hold all my coins for over a year? What if I hold a certain amount but cash out a little bit. Say I'm holding like 1 Eth, but cash out like 10 Arks.

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>Having to pay taxes on unrealized gains on monopoly money
Ahahaha, Jesus Christ
Feels good living in a country too advanced to be inconvenient to live in, but too behind with the times to have shitty laws like the US

>>3276538
this

>>3276523
I cannot condone the method of "only paying when you cash out." I can give you advice on the safest way to do it (ie: paying tax on every trade), because I don't believe the IRS is going to let speculators off the hook after the year we've had. you can do whatever you want to do, it's up to you. in my opinion though I think if you don't want to be audited, you should report every trade, long term and short term.

>>3276538
>>3276573
you need to record the fiat value of each coin at the time of the transactions. so use the BTC/ETH fiat value converted to the altcoin price. there's no defined method for this given by the IRS, only that it has to be consistent. this is to avoid cherry picking exchange price disparities to minimize or maximize tax gain/loss and game the system.

>>3276548
use software like quicken to trade your trades. if you buy 10 ETH @ $100, that's your starting lot. if you sell 2 ETH for $200, then those 2 are deducted from your first lot and become a new lot, and you have 8 left to sell that still have a cost basis of $100 each in the first lot. then you can trade the ETH to ARK (taxable), trade the ARK to BTC (taxable), and cash out (taxable). this is why it's a good idea to plan out your moves and avoid unnecessary transactions.

>>3276538
> If I traded 2 apples for 3 oranges 1 day and then the next day I trade 3 oranges for 4 apples do I owe the IRS an apple?

If each apple is worth $15 and each orange is worth $10, then you didn't make any profit when you went 2 apples to 3 oranges: the starting 2 apples = $30, and the three oranges = $30.

but then you trade the 3 oranges for 4 apples. there are two ways to look at this:

possibility 1:
since you traded the 3 oranges for 4 apples, and apples are worth $15 each, your oranges were clearly worth $60 at the time you got rid of your apples. your cost basis for those oranges was $30. so you have realized a gain of $30. since you only held for a day, this is a short term capital gain, so it gets taxed at the same rate as ordinary income. by the feds, the state (depending on state), and by the city (depending on city). in my case, nyc, it apparently gets taxed by all three for a total effective tax rate of between 40 and 42%.

this is why i cringe at the thought of chasing pumps or daytrading. buying and holding lets me keep and earn appreciation on that extra 40%

>>3276643
>paying tax on every trade

Plus, where would the money from "every trade" come from if its still crypto?

>>3276659
you have to convert the prices to fiat. coinmarketcap has no problem with that, as you may have noticed. make sure you do it in a consistent manner.

>>3276658
my text box fucking died.

but there seem to be different ways to interpret this and i am not an accountant so they all make equal sense to me, basically. so ASK AN ACCOUNTANT.

the worst case is probably the correct one.

and the IRS doesn't care if you only have 4 apples and no money. the extra apples are income so you either take money out of your bank account to pay them or you sell enough apples to pay the taxes and then pay them or you take out a loan or beg your mom for money. they dont care, they just want their cut of the amount they think you made.

>>3276548
If you've held whatever you've cashed out for less than a year, regardless of the amount, it is taxed as ordinary income.

if you keep the eth for more than a year, it's capital gains tax.

Depending on your deductions, such as student loans, moving expenses, tuition, being disabled, it may be better to declare as ordinary income. Depends on how much you make at your job.


But if that is honestly all you have than forget declaring you $500 the IRS doesnt care about your broke ass

>>3276673
But if you are never converting to fiat, then where does the money come from?

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>Cashing out

I'm not paying a damn fucking penny because I never cashed out, and theoretically all my coins could go to zero at any point.

>>3276688
1) cryptos = property
2) property has value
3) you've made gains on exchanging property
4) you now need to pay tax on those property gains
5) pay the tax with your checking account, or sell your property so you have money in your checking account to pay them.

>>3276708
that's not how it fucking works. kys

>>3276719
feel free to explain it to us then.

>>3276727
I have made no gains whatsoever unless I realize them by cashing out. Period. You think people who make money on stocks pay taxes on that if they don't cash out?

roll
Also ODN is king

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>>3276761
we gon make it Obsidibro

>>3276759
it was actually my stock trading friend who reminded me to pay estimated taxes this year.

and this is a unique problem with cryptos. the big difference between stocks is that with stocks, you don't trade stock to stock. I can't trade apple shares directly to microsoft shares. you are always going to or from fiat with every transaction. that's not the case with cryptos, most transactions are coin to coin, so people still owe the tax, but they may not have the proceeds in fiat, it might be in another coin. so they need to have the cash to cover the tax, or they need to cash out so they have the cash. you might need to change around what coin markets you use to avoid getting taxed multiple times on the same lot.

>>3276813
So for every fucking trade I do on bittrex I'm supposed to have cash on hand to cover the tax?? it's not happening.

>>3275973
I don't know the first thing about taxes but OP is nuts, this is some kind of taxation FUD. Paying taxes on unrealized gains on extremely volatile assets doesn't is fundamentally nonsensical.

>>3276848
you're probably thinking you owe more than you actually do. that's probably not the case.

say I buy 1 BTC for $1000 on coinbase, transfer it to bittrex, and then buy $1005 worth of OMG because the BTC price went up while I was waiting. yes, I'm getting taxed on every trade, but I'm only paying 25-30% on a $5 gain. not that much.

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TAXATION IS THEFT

Tax thread # 473,838 made by butt hurt nocoiner or altcoiner

Do your duty and sage

>>3276688
>>3276708
Along these sorts of lines, and to make it easy for myself as well, couldn't I just put down my original cuckbase eth purchase of about 50 Eth (of which I cucked myself out of much of the profits through trading into other coins but w/e) and say that I am still holding that, simply without reporting all the other bullshit I did with it on other exchanges that lost me some of the profits?

In this way, if I manage to make back my potential profits some other way after about a year, I can just pay taxes on that semi fictitious Ethereum I've been 'holding' for a year (which I think is just 15% at that point).

>>3276876
any time you trade or make a purchase with crypto, it's a realized gain. realized gains are taxed.

>>3276879
It's not happening. If you think I'm going through my entire trade history to calculate what pennies I owe for each fucking transaction. It's NOT happening.

>t. all gains long term and total income < 40k. federal capital gains = $0

>>3276888
>>3276896
you guys can do it however you want. you just need to keep in mind that if you get audited, they are going to find out what really happened.

follow my advice and you'll be safe in an audit. that's all I'm saying.

>>3275973

Oh damn, to bad I exchanged BTC to Mono and left the country with my dual citizenshit. Oh fuck, just renounced my citizenshit.

Woops.

does this apply if i didnt cash out? all of my shit is still in wallets and on the exchanges and i plan to have it there for a year or two

>>3276929
you only get taxed when you make trades or purchases

>>3276896
It's not that fucking hard. There are a couple websites that will do this for you bitcoin.tax and cointracking are among them. You download a transaction log from your exchange and import it onto them. It then calculates your profits and losses on all trades and creates a file that you can import into turbotax or quicken. This takes like 15 minutes and if you've been making pajeet tier trades you won't owe much anyway. You can choose not to do this, but if you ever do get rich and decide to cash out, prepare to get audited and raped by the IRS when they find out you have been evading taxes for years.

>>3276950
fuck i hate this country

what if i go to europe or mexico to cash out? do i have to report shit?

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>>3276912
Well ok but so you're saying I could deduct capital losses incurred from following the /biz/ strat?

And if it's about 25% or whatever per trade for cg taxes, what can you deduct for capital loss? The entire lost amount?


Also is there anywhere I can get a definitive answer on this such shit rather than just a Loatian cardboard cutout theater meeting place?

>>3276986
You can only deduct $3000.00 USD in capital losses as an individual. Corporations can't deduct shit.

>>3276985
YOU MUST REPORT INTERNATIONAL INCOME. That being said, fly to mexico and lose the USB stick containing Bitcoin. But you may never use another exchange with your social security number again.

>>3276986
you can claim up to $3k in losses per year, but you can carry over losses in future years. if you lost more than $3k, that sucks but you can still carry it over.

for professional advice hire a professional. a CPA or tax attorney. I know most /biz/tards won't be doing that though, so I'm throwing them a bone here.

>>3276912
Dude you're fucking autistic.

>>3276912
Won't I arrive at exactly the same dollar amount if I take my total crypto assets minus my initial buy in times whatever tax rate?

Why does the IRS want me to go through this ballache to give them the same amount of money?

>>3276923
Damn that's a long way to go to cash out,
Where's your dual citizenship from?
I have American-Swiss, but frankly I wouldn't want to renounce my American one ever since everything's expensive af in Switzerland

How many audits have happened because of crypto?

I heard last year only like 800 people reported crypto earnings.

I'm fine with paying taxes but obviously the IRS is still working on the details.

>>3276923
i got dual citizenship too, how can i take advantage from this? mexico btw

>>3277038
I'm not. I'm just someone who wires tens of thousands of dollars into my bank account from gemini, so I need a paper trail to prove where that money comes from.

>>3277041
only if 100% of the trades were executed in under a year, and that's still a big maybe. you can do what you want, just know the risks you are taking. the reason the IRS won't allow "only pay tax when you cash out" is because people will use (abuse) it to claim that all of their gains are at the 15% tax rate, when in reality a lot of it might be at the ordinary income tax rate.

>>3277075
I'm one of those 800, but it's going to change this year given the market growth and ICO fiascos.

>>3276912
come and audit my $1000 dollar "investment" in shitcoins then. track all five thousand of my tiny ass trades back and forth between coins while calculating what the profit/loss would be in USD.

yeah. not happening.

I thought OP was an autist but he may be on to something. This article by a CPA seems to align more or less with what he is saying. The IRS rules just don't seem very clear yet, and like many anons are saying complying with the maximalist interpretation of the requirements is completely impractical.

>>3277101
Ah so the real mess comes next year when i have trades being taxed at two different rates. I'd better be rich enough to hire an accountant by then.

Thanks for answering stupid questions anon.

>>3277158
Forgot the link.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/08/15/cryptocurrency-traders-risk-irs-trouble-with-like-kind-exchanges/#41382da626a8

>>3276556
Feels good to understand economics and not be a shitty leech on society.

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TAXATION IS THEFT
REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>3277158
thanks for hearing me out. I've been filing like this since 2013 with no trouble at all. as long as you keep track of USD price every time you make a trade, and then you enter it all into software like quicken to track the tax portion, it's not actually that bad unless you are a day trader making hundreds of trades a week, or more.

Thanks anon. This is good intel. I will follow your advice while wanting to burn the establishment to the ground. Fuck the system.

>>3277200
On the other hand anon, it looks like almost no one is even declaring taxes on this shit. So what are they gonna do, audit all the hundreds upon thousands of coiners?

http://fortune.com/2017/03/19/irs-bitcoin-lawsuit/

>>3276658
Pay tax on every trade? That is literally the most retarded thing I've ever heard. Many people would end up owing money even if they had been profitable.

Let's say you start with $1000 dollars

You make a bunch of trades and wind up with $10k.

Then you shit coin loses 90% of it's value and you're back to $1k. Yet, if you had to pay tax on every trade you profited from, you'd owe let's say $5k.

So now you have $1k, and you owe the IRS $5k. Does that sound fucking right to you? Idiot.

>>3277180
We know

Yea... How about no... My gainz go into Monero when I "cash out". The IRS is getting 0 for all I care.

If they ask any questions I " forgot" my key. Which is a constitutional right. They can't do shit.

>>3277221
I think that 800-900 number is bogus, and is just the result of a poorly trained DBA. there's a lot of ways to "describe bitcoin" in the tax forms. they've already started trying to get data out of coinbase, and are probably hitting all the other big exchanges privately too.

but yes, it might be a few years until they get a handle on it. if you plan on getting rich though (and we all do), then everything needs to be in order when that happens, or else it's going to be very difficult to cash out.

>>3275973
>taxes
>on unrealized gains
nice try tax man

You can't pay taxes when the IRS themselves has yet to define shit.
Yes, I know trades are going to be reported in the future, but until then, why the fuck would anyone?
That's just opening a can of worms for yourself and they'll be monitoring your ever move.
Wait until they actually pass laws and figure everything out. It's their job, not ours.

>>3277228
no, it doesn't sound right. you'd never owe $5k if that happened to you. you'd know that if you've ever made money in cryptos.

>>3277290
no idea what you're talking about man. you only pay taxes when you make a trade or purchase.

>>3277302
a valid strategy. I just want people to know the risks.

Are they really gonna mind that much if I just give them their 15% cut?

>>3277253
But how will you ultimately get it into USD?
Especially if you have a large amount?
Unless you want to wait for Bitcoin or smthg to become the 'dominant currency'

what would happen if you never rpeorted the crypto earnings from each individual trade, then just started some shitty subscription comic website where you drew bad rule 34 porn and claimed to be getting paid through bitcoin donations by mega perverts when you were really sending coins from other wallets to your main wallet, so it all looked like ordinary income

i think you'd get arrested and then everybody would know about your reboot fetish but its a fun thought experiment

>>3277319
this, i'm fine with giving them their cut

>>3277302
so not even reporting like blockfolio to give them this cut?

>>3276084
>so you should report everything if you don't want to be audited
how would they know its me though. you can make a basic account on bittrex with a name and address with a 3 BTC per day withdraw limit.
>>3277308
unrealized gains means you haven't cashed out to USD yet, therefore you cant be taxed and as long as my trades are crypto to crypto trades no taxes for me

>>3277302
Let's say this is the case,
But until the rules are created, what do you do?
Do you pay any taxes at all on the mysterious meme money coming into your bank account?
That seems kinda sketchy to me and something they'd bone you for.

>>3277308
Why would you "never owe 5k"? I'm literally using your own set of rules to explain that scenario to you.

-Start with $1000 BTC
-It rises to $2000 BTC
-Use all your BTC to buy DGB
>you owe taxes on $1000
-DGB moons 10x and now you have $20k worth of DGB
-Trade all of that for ANS
>you now owe taxes on $18k gains
-ANS moons 10x and now you have $200k worth of ANS
-Trade all your ANS for SIA coin
>you now owe tax on $180k gains
-Sia crashes 95% and you sell it back to fiat for 8k.

You have gone from $1000 dollars to $8000 dollars, yet you OWE TAXES on $199k "gains" which is like 40%.

So now you owe the IRS $80k but you've only made $7k in gains?

fucking idiot.

>>3277375
this is what i'm stuck on as I started this year
I wanna give them their cut cause I don't wanna get chased after
i mean as long as I report my gain and only cash out enough to pay the %

>>3277357
>unrealized gains means you haven't cashed out to USD yet

you should hire a professional before you go this route.

>>3277375
Just pay taxes on your total earnings.

>>3277403
>-Sia crashes 95% and you sell it back to fiat for 8k.
you just realized almost 200k in capital losses. congrats, you owe almost no taxes now. fucking idiot.

heres a scenario. I buy 1 BCH at $300 and sell it for BTC when it hits $600. I do not pay tax on this trade
I hold on to that $600 of BTC and over years it goes 100X to $60,000. If the IRS were to audit me, would they make me pay 25% or whatever of that original $300 gain, and then 15% or whatever when I cash out my BTC? Or are there additional penalties for not reporting? basically if I get audited how fucked am I in this scenario

>paying taxes
>on cryptos

Nice meme had a good chuckle

>>3277403
>DGB moons 10x and now you have $20k worth of DGB

nice try pajeet

OK EVERYONE

THE TRUTH IS, its too early to see how serious this shit is


we will be fine for now,

but who knows in 4-5 years if they get anal about this shit

>>3277407
If you literally hand over cold hard USD to the IRS on crypto gains that could disappear any moment, you're cucked beyond belief.
Think for yourself. Don't pay real money for hypothetical gains.

>>3277423
There is a limit to capital loses. If you could offset capital gains with capital losses then there would be no need to calculate the profit from every single transaction because it would all balance out at the end by paying the tax on the amount of profit you made... since infinite capital loses and capital gains are both realized... but that's not the case, is it? fucking idiot.

>>3277467
but what if being a cuck keeps me safe?
just paying the % due and holding the rest

>>3277526
If morons like you keep doing this retard shit you're going to make it the precedent. Just stop it. Pay when you actually want to cash out like any normal person until they tell you otherwise.

>>3277403
This DGB shilling is getting out of hand

>>3277565
With you on this it is insane. They need to establish the rules of the playing field and this isn't helping.

I'm going to perform a data dump of my bot trading. Maybe sending them 40,000 pages of trades will help them decide.

>>3275973
How bad are the penalties? If I take out money now I could stand to have way less by tax season than whatever the penalty is.

>>3277565
>>3277609
>>3277593


Yes, it's just like a piece of land. Let's say you buy 5 acres for $100k. The value goes up 10x like DGB will and it's now worth a $1M.... you don't fucking pay taxes until you sell, otherwise the IRS law would force you to sell just to pay off theoretical gains. If you sell 1 of your 5 acres for 200k, then you pay tax on that 200k. SIMPLE.

>>3277565
I mean I understand, but what wrong with selling some of your position for total gains over the whole year? Like going from 1k to 10k, just paying a % on that.

Also where is OP? Did he get BTFO by me?

>>3277486
you're a retard dude. it doesn't matter what tax year any of that shit happens. if your 200k portfolio drops down to 5k you aren't going to be paying tens of thousands of dollars worth of taxes. you'd know that if you were actually making money. you don't get taxed on unrealized gains.

>>3277649
you're not even worth my time to be completely honest with you.

>>3277637
That has been the expectation to date. I don't mind paying my fair share. The IRS would end up net negative going through all of the crypto accounts due to the cost of the investigations unless they plan to deploy Palantir to find everyone with full exchange compliance.

>>3277669
Actually, that's how it works in day trading stocks. It's actually pretty common for people to owe more money in taxes then they made in profits. This is because rules are put in place to DISCOURAGE day trading since it is bad for the economy.

If you knew shit about anything you'd know that. I'm simply explaining to you how your own explanation is retarded, no need to get upset at me.

Also look at this post by me, it is the correct way to treat crypto
>>3277637

fucking idiot.

>>3276876

This. 99% of my neteorth is in crypto. No way in hell I can pay taxes on it. The IRS will be fine with the long term capital gains tax whenever I cash out. If not they're going to have to chase down tens of thousands of people for all these unreported gains

>>3275973

FROM MY COLD DEAD WALLETS

>>3277755
>bad for the economy.
Its actually not. Any trading facilitates more trading and can be done without affecting price much. The SEC is a Jewish organization that put rules in place to stop small individuals that could out-compete them. Its about keeping the fucking banks in power. Daytrading makes BTC great.

>>3277755
>When bitcoin is held for investment, gains are typically taxable and losses can offset gains.
>But there’s an exception: If the bitcoin is for personal use—say to buy a meal or a boat—then gains on it are taxable but losses aren’t deductible, says tax strategist Bob Gordon of Twenty-First Securities Corp. This longstanding rule also applies to houses, he notes.

Tldr; buy more $IOTA

>>3276912
>get audited
>uh oh you owe an extra $200 you bad boy!
whoopdy fucking doo

>not cashing out and moving to another country

LMAO look at all these paranoid faggots

>>3276161
It's not really as bad as it sounds though. Capital losses still can take away from capital gains for any amount. So you can have 100,000 in capital gains and 25,000 in losses, and it'll equal 75,000. Otherwise, everyone would just write off a shitton of their income from shitty stocks every year

>>3277860
>But there’s an exception: If the bitcoin is for personal use—say to buy a meal or a boat—then gains on it are taxable but losses aren’t deductible, says tax strategist Bob Gordon of Twenty-First Securities Corp. This longstanding rule also applies to houses, he notes.
They really know how to fuck the little guy over.

>>3277423
>you just realized almost 200k in capital losses. congrats, you owe almost no taxes now. fucking idiot.

what? I thought that you could only claim $3k worth of capital losses per year.

i heard you can carry over the unclaimed capital losses very year, though. so you'd get to claim $3k of losses per year for the next $200k / $3k = 66 years. but in that first year, you are paying taxes on $199k - $3k = $196k worth of "gains".

and that is why if i ever moon, i will set aside a portion for taxes as soon as i sell. the remainder can go back into crypto to chase the next pump but if i put all of it into the next coin then to the IRS i am gambling with their money and i better have enough to pay them regardless of the outcome.

>>3278075
Capital losses can offset any capital gains that year. It just means you can't go more than negative 3000 overall in a year

>>3278075
only a complete retard like the guy who posted it would let that happen in different tax years

>>3276437
>>3276505
>>3277669
Go away IRS

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>>3275973
I could use a little bit of guidance here because I haven't kept track of USD values for every trade.

I bought BTC, LTC, and ETH on Coinbase with transactions between $100 and $5000. In all, I put about $10k in.

I transferred it to Bittrex and traded various coins around, also transferring and receiving from desktop wallets on a few.

I also transferred some small amounts to other exchanges to make trades in coins not available on Bittrex.

I also mined less than $50 of Gridcoin.

Eventually I cashed out my full initial investment of ~10k on Coinbase in several different transactions. I have about $20k of crypto assets currently (all gains). I cashed it out to the exact total amount (down to the cent) I transferred from my bank account.

In all, on Bittrex alone, I've made about 1800 trades since I started in May of this year. I just downloaded the spreadsheet and I'm going a little pale at the thought of assigning USD values to each trade at the exact date and time it was made.

What's the best way to proceed with this? I thought I'd have to pay a % rate to the IRS on what I cashed out when I cashed it out, but that only Crypto -> USD was taxable. I don't think retroactively assigning USD values to every trade is going to reasonably work out for me.

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>The capital gains tax is triggered only when an asset is sold, not while the asset is held by an investor.


I feel like this is a a very simple concept. You pay the capital gains tax when you cash out. End of story.

Since the only time that any federally issued currency is transferred from one party to another is when you purchase your initial crypto through an exchange or when an exchange gives you usd/euro for your crypto, there is never any actual sales made, hence TRADING.

This is the biggest difference between the stock market and the crypto market. As another anon mentioned earlier, you have to sell a stock for fiat and then you can use that fiat to buy a different stock.

The entire crypto trading market is based off of crypto, not fiat currency. Yes, on some of them there is dollar/euro equivalencies listed for reference, but there is no transference of the actual government issued funds. Not until you cash out through an exchange.

Pic related.

>>3278579
learn to write scripts. or just do like 50 a night. by the time 2018 rolls around you should be good, and plan better next year. there's no such thing as free money. we're in this situation because we were successful.

>>3278602
I wish you the best of luck in your tax filings.

>>3278602
You're saying that If i could sell my stock for BTC it wouldn't be taxable.

I don't think that is logical, BTC has an easily quoted USD value, as with the rest of crypto. There seem to be two clear tax methods here regarding crypto. The SEC/IRS is going to have to decide for us.

>>3278579
>I don't think retroactively assigning USD values to every trade is going to reasonably work out for me.

People that trade stock have to list out every single trade, compute every cost basis, proceed, and dissallowed loss, with each company's identification #. Does that sound reasonable for someone who has traded ~3,000 is a year? Absolutely not. That's why, before computers, people that could afford to invest could also afford to pay accountants to do their taxes.

Now, all I have to do is press the "import" button, and all of my work is done.

IF crypto is going to be officially taxed like stock, that's what you may have to do.

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>>3275973
>Not using localbitcoins

>>3278663
>>3278691

How do I report my 1800+ trades to the IRS? Is there a set format? The data is so disjointed.

>>3278703
yeah, except you can't buy a house with duffle bags full of cash.

>>3278720
buy quicken premier and then start entering in your trades one buy one. the software will sort everything out as long as you have USD values for everything. then export a tax file from quicken or run a capital gains report. it's not that bad.

>>3278720
or use one of the crypto tax websites where you can import your trades. I've never used them because I can do it myself, but it sounds like it might be the best bet for you.

>>3278720
>>3278755
I was about to say that it may just be easier to compute your total tax with excel, and just pay that. Rather than entering each trade. And let them audit if you if they want. Just have that spreadsheet ready and stuff, it's not like you'd be doing anything fraudulent.
What the other anon said sounds promising.

>>3278720
Why would you have to assign USD values to each trade?

15% capital gains tax on each profitable trade would be the same as 15% of the entire lump sum of profits.

I for one appreciate the OP looking out for his fellow anons.

I would also appreciate guidance if one could offer it. > t. NEET brainlet who never learned the first thing about finance or taxes

In march I transferred 3k from my bank account to coinbase. I bought ethereum. Sold at 370$. Had roughly 26k fiat sitting in my GDAX account for sometime.

Then I got involved with other coins. That 26k was converted into alt coins which I have manically traded for the last 2 months. I have accounts on over 7 exchanges. Literally hundreds if not thousands of trades, the majority were break even or at a loss all together (t. shit tier emotional trader). As it stands, my crypto portfolio is probably worth 35k, but it is spread thin across many assets held on questionable exchanges.

The only time I have withdrawn any fiat to my bank account was in June. I withdrew 10k.

I was in school last semester and hardly working any hours at my regular job. I made no more than 5k.

How fucked am I?

>>3278779
Well that's what I was hoping for, but these guys are saying if I cashed everything out today, I still have to report every single fucking trade, which sounds like a complete nightmare.

>>3278795
I mean I'd provide my order log, but I can't see why you would need to convert everything into USD, trade by trade. If somebody bought all your crypto for 1million, regardless of what the trades were worth at the time, youd be taxed for 1million.

>>3278791
Sounds like you know how to do math, addition and substraction is the worst you'll have to do for ur taxes

Ur good nigs, just fill it out

>>3277337

absolutely fucking nothing would happen. do it.

>>3277934
yeah I hope you didn't fuck up on the other parts of your taxes cause they're going to be looking for a lot more than that.

>>3276391
Anon so let me get this straight, I have no actual income, and I made <$10,000 on zrx/eth trading in the past month

I don't have to pay taxes? If so, is there a guide to doing it something

so I have to calculate taxes on each individual trade?

if I just send them a flat percentage of my total earnings then they may be prompted to investigate further

seems like I have to do it perfect or not at all

>>3278691
IF you could sell your stock for Btc. IF. IF. IF.


If you did want to do that, how would you do it? You would probably sell your stock for fiat and then you would turn around and use that fiat to buy the btc.

>>3278767
This is pretty much where I have landed. I will go the CGT route, but I will always be open about what I am doing and I will have the logs to back it up.

>>3278779
it won't be the same, but you probably aren't a huge risk for audit until you start moving 50-100k around. if you plan on getting rich off cryptos through, you should probably get your records in order.

>>3278791
you probably won't actually owe anything because your income will be too low, but you'd still need to file everything, technically. again, this is so you aren't fucked down the road when you do make real money. you should look into one of the websites where you can import your trades and they do all the calculations for you.

>>3278805
no. there's not only risk of underpaying with this, there's risk of overpaying. you may only owe 700k if you actually did the math, but you were lazy and decided to pay 1 million. and you didn't provide the transactions so the IRS is going to keep that extra 300k, because you told them you owe 1 million. also, 60% of that 700k in gains you owe might need to be taxed at 30% and 40% of it taxed at 15%, but you have no way of knowing which is which unless you look at all the transactions. and if you're moving a million dollars in crypto, and record it as 3 transactions, they are going to come down on you like a ton of fucking bricks because they know it's complete bullshit

>>3278850
No this is bullshit. Do the math yourself. If you made $200 on one trade, and $500 on another, and took 15% of each of those trades, you'd end up with the same value as if you took 15% of 700.

If you calculate taxes on TOTAL PROFIT then it is effectively the SAME as calculating taxes on EACH INDIVIDUAL PROFIT.

>>3278850
I mean I highly doubt the government has any means to audit crypto earnings right now, the infrastructure simply can't be there

Most people here make hundreds of trades most at small gains or losses, swapping crypto around to different exchanges, sometimes decentralized, random fucking ICOs

There's just no way they can do shit about it

Thankfully my trades are straightforward

>>3278883
Yes, if some of your holdings were over a year, and some were not, you have to calculate them differently. But otherwise, total profit will always be equal to each individual profit added together.

That has always been my logic and thus I never understood all this FUD. Thought I was missing something.

Honestly though I'm a basement dweller and this is the first time I've ever of mid-year taxes. What exactly am I paying taxes on? My income up to this point for the year?

>>3278891
>>3278912
this is the last time I'm saying it, but the reason you can't lump it together is because short and long term gains are taxed at different rates. there's no way to "know your total profit" and how much you owe on it unless you calculate all the trades individually. but go ahead and try it though, then tell us how it works out for you.

>>3278901
they have hired startups doing blockchain analysis. they will be able to start tracking some people eventually. they'll never be able to track everyone though.

>>3278914
it's like if you had a day job and your employer wasn't taking any tax out of your paycheck. all the IRS wants is that you pay that per quarter. normally it happens to us every paycheck.

>>3275973
So let me get this straight, I've made only $9,000 this year.. all of it crypto earnings. If I don't pay 15% taxes on it I will go to prison where other tax payers will pay for me to be there

>>3278956
honestly you're probably too low of income to owe any tax at all. you still need to report all your trades though.

>>3278949
Yes, I just acknowledged that. You're making it sound like you have to parse trades that are in the same fiscal period. If, for instance, all of your holdings were a year old, then you could calculate it in one lump sum.

Very simple, calculate total profit for <1year holdings, and calculate total profit for >1year holdings. Don't calculate profit trade by trade, thats unnecessary work.

>>3278983
To add to this, I'm pretty sure the only way to have a longterm hold is with Btc, Ltc or Eth, since all altcoins must be converted to one of those three to be exchanged for fiat.

>>3278956
You just need to report it. You won't have to pay anything assuming that was your only income.

>>3278983
you're not seeing the forest through the trees. this is something you're going to have to do every year, for as long as you trade cryptos. if you start lumping together all your trades because "it's all the same," how exactly are you going to label them on form 8949? lump trade 1? lump trade 2? say you still have some coins left over next year, then decide to sell them, how are you going to label those? leftovers from lump trade 2? lump trade 3? it will be completely absurd and you're an absolute mad man if you actually plan on doing that. the only sane solution is to track each trade, because it's the only way to have continuity.

>>3278112
lol? What do you mean? The situation I described is very possible. You can't control when a coin crashes, and crashing 90% is possible. What a dumbass. Nice non-response faggot.

>>3278914
I had to look it up too. I've always had taxes withheld but just assumed investors etc. paid a lump sum at year's end.
Investors don't have to actually estimate their yearly income, right? They can just tax their profits for the quarterly period in question?

>>3279036
Listen man, I understand the utility of what you're saying. I only have tens of trades so its no barrier for me. Those people out there day trading 100 trades a day though, it would be absurd to track all of that, and frankly I don't think the IRS would be too keen on parsing all of that. Basically what I'm saying is, if you, say, bought and sold OMG 1000x before you finally cashed into fiat, I think it would be more than reasonable to just calculate total profit on your OMG history.

>>3279070
In other words, you track total purchased and total sold, so there would be no discrepancy as to any extra holdings etc.

>>3278956
Kek'd so hard.

>>3279070
this is why the SEC is cracking down on cryptos. normal people are now dealing with tax law that previously only investors and accountants had to deal with. it is absurd for normal people, there's no denying that. I'm just trying to help people be prepared for when the shit hits the fan. because it will after the market boom this year.

you file it however you want. lump everything together, try to make the numbers match, hope there's no discrepancy next year. I just hope you know the risks you're taking when you do it.

>>3278975
At first I was appreciative of your insight and advice, now I am just annoyed with your faggot fucking attitude. We get it Uncle Sam, we'll keep track of all our fucking trades jesus fucking christ your family probably can't stand you at the dinner table.

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>>3279120

Pay your taxes, goy, or the state will send this man after you

>>3278602
You can't trade stocks for stocks to avoid tax either. You're still responsible for acquiring the USD to pay even if the trades you chose to make didn't land you with any.
Like kind exchanges are extremely specific in what they apply to, and exclude securities and currencies.

>>3279120
Fair enough. I just think people need to keep in mind that if their total earnings are under 100k and they pay their fair share they likely wont be audited. If you're making more than 100k you should probably be hiring a tax attorney to help you anyways.

>>3279120
This is literally fucking retarded. If you made 500k from 50k, which is possible, and you filed for every transaction you made, you'd owe like $200k even if you haven't cashed out into fiat.

By your logic, you'd have to sell 200k worth of coins to pay the taxes you made on trading coins, then sell 40% of 200k more coins into fiat to pay for the taxes you made on selling 200k coins into fiat, then keep fucking doing that until you owe nothing. Are you fucking stupid?

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Quit your fearmongering, op

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/07/10/what-you-need-to-know-about-cryptocurrencies-and-taxes/

If I were a crypto whale, could I use a charitable remainder trust to live off my bags for the rest of my life and never pay taxes on any of it?

>>3276161
You can become a mark to market filer if you're truly a NEET getting all your income from trading crypto.
There's no cap on capital losses if you file that way.

>>3279308
""they"" use every possible way to destroy crypto, fucking investors over with taxes is one way.

>>3279308
Your tax liability will be the same either way, you're fudging the math. The issue of recording transactions is to show how you reached the end result and aren't bullshitting everything. And yes you have to sell coins to pay taxes, the IRS doesn't give a fuck if you're not handling USD. You think they'd let you dodge by paying for everything in Bitcoin?

>>3275973
And this is why we need trustless exchanges.

I've only ever traded crypto on exchanges that do not take my information.

When I want to cash out to fiat and pay my taxes I only send from the wallet that I store my Coinbase bought coins with.

>>3277565
They did establish the rule. Crypto is a commodity. You trade commodity for a different commodity it's not a like kind exchange. You owe taxes on the trade.

>>3277755
That's a wash sale when you're day trading. None of what you described is day trading. It's fucking simple when you aren't doing wash sales.
You offset your capital gains by your capital losses for the year.
You lost almost 200k and then sold it into fiat. Congratulations, you wiped out your capital gains for the year. You don't pay any taxes.
Hire an accountant, you don't understand tax.

>>3279905
So if I traded an ounce of gold for 100 ounces of silver, if the comparative exchange rate made my silver more valuable than the gold I traded it for, I would have to pay taxes?

>>3279818
How am I "fudging the math"?

Let's say you bought 50k of some shitcoin and it went up 10x and you sold back into bitcoin. You're saying you'd owe tax on 450k? Ok. In California you'd pay around 180k in taxes.

So 50k to 500k
Sell back to BTC, you made 450k in profit
Pay 180k tax on that
Have to sell 180k of BTC to pay tax
Are taxed on 180k profit which is another 60k
Have to sell another 60k to pay tax
That 60k is taxed 15k
Have to sell another 15k to pay the 15k tax
That 15k is taxed 2k.

Nigger please.

Bittrex only keeps the last 200 or so transactions on their site and the json quiery doesn't seem to return more either.
Does anybody know if they have them all backed up?

>>3278016
>>3277860

well calculating losses, following GAAP rules, cash is always the strongest assessment of value in exchanges

but when you purchases an item with bitcoin, the fair value may be more subjevve and unfair

TAXES ARE ONLY PAID ON TOTAL PROFITS ONCE CASHED INTO FIAT
NOT EACH AND EVERY SINGLE LITTLE TRANSACTION
HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU PEOPLE SO STUPID

>>3280000 #
That's not true. But I don't want to get into a fight with angry people.

In any case, here't the officials for Austria (and Germany too)

https://www.bmf.gv.at/steuern/kryptowaehrung_Besteuerung.html

PPS on Kraken and Bittrex your data

>>3280038
You read this >>3279955

>>3279942
You bought $100 of gold.
It increases to $120 in value.
You trade the gold for silver.
You check the price of your gold when you sold it, and know you owe capital gains on $20.
In your scenario you traded $120 of gold for $150 of silver.
Your cost basis in the silver is now $120 because you bought it with $120 of gold.
When you sell the silver for $150, you owe taxes on $30 of capital gains.

On the other hand, if you bought $100 of gold stamped Goldberg and when it's worth $120 trade it for $120 of gold stamped Shekelstein, you don't pay taxes on $20 of gains. Your Shekelstein gold is still cost basis $100. Like in kind exchange.

>>3279968
GAAP isn't tax accounting.

It irks me, ah well not really, let's say it amazes me that there are people who just can't wait to pay taxes and be a good little cuckadillo. Would they have lost 100k on crypto, gov would not even offer tax reduction for their losses. But now they win 100k, and they're just itching to give away that 33k or some such. Why tho.

>>3280135
Because the IRS is no fucking joke.

>>3280119
Right, when you sell the silver you pay the gains tax. So wouldn't it follow that I do not pay taxes until I cash out my crypto?

>>3280060
Is this a request to help with the math or what do you mean?
After it's being translated to btc you pay 180k taxes. Then, if you change the btc to another currency there's probably only one day passed and the gain on that second trade are a few cents.
You pay taxes on the gains of the trade, not on the trade volume as such

>>3280143
.gov has shown themselves to be absolute retards when it comes to tech over and over through history, yeah they can strongarm someone when they find out he has a pot of gold hiding somewhere, but they absolutely positively suck at anything computer related as a rule of thumb.

>>3280177
You realize the government invented Tor, right?

>>3280153
Only as long as you aren't trading it for other crypto.

>>3280185
A small pocket of techies in the gigantic sea of retards created something somewhat useful but also known to be a honeypot to anyone doing a bit of research.. wow.
I never said there weren't capable people @ gov, most just suck though. Most capable people end up in business not gov. But yeah.

>>3280153
You have to pay taxes on the first $20 but you do not pay taxes on the next $30 until you sell it. That's how it would work in crypto.
By the way, the retardo saying you could only offset your next year's gains by 3k, that's wrong. You can only reduce your ordinary taxable income by 3k of capital losses per year, but you can still offset your capital gains by the full 200k.
Also I believe you can carry back capital gains losses a number of prior years.
So no if you do your taxes right you're unlikely to get fucked an unfair amount unless you lose and cease all investing completely.

I think the shittiest thing is keeping track of eth gains if you're using it to buy shitcoins and the price keeps fluctuating. you have to keep track of the initial price of each eth, so the gains are completely desynced when you eventually trade them for another coin. How do people keep track of this shit?

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>>3280135
Nobody wants to pay taxes. It's risk assesment.

Wasley Snipes didn't make movie for 4 years because he was in prison for tax evasion.

It's about whether the money is worth the risk. If you clarified that for yourself or if you're sure enough that the gov won't be able to communicate with your exchange, then good for you.
As OP pointed out, there was a total market cap raise in the billions and so it will not go unnotice as it did ip until now

Taxes on crypto are such a huge fucking headache.
I wanna pay the right amount (hate being such a cuck, but don't want to get brutally raped), and only plan to when cashing out to fiat (I simply don't have the capital to cover taxes for each trade when I'm holding everything in crypto), and even then it's confusing as fuck.

I may have to use bitcoin.tax or a similar service, or perhaps Excel, but trying to compile all the data from every exchange, including ICOs, stake rewards, etc, sounds like a trip to hell. Still don't know how I'll manage that.

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>>3280207
I'm not sure about the timely resolution, but on exchanges like kraken you can download some price data

>>3280205
So in this example, the only way I could continue to hold my commodity is if I used USD from another source to pay taxes on the gains I had upon trading for silver?

>>3280237
I thought about doing people's crypto taxes but I don't want to fuck with anons dumping thousands of transactions on me for $300 and putting my license at risk.
Best of luck dudes.

>>3275973
In the US you don't pay taxes on crypto until you cash out. Crypto has no value as far as the law is concerned.

Unless you're talking ICOs, which aren't crypto.

>>3276391
jesus christ that picture

>>3280254
IF you had enough gains to owe taxes at all. You'd need something like 10k in income to owe tax.
If you don't have enough cash on hand to pay the taxes on $20, then you need to sell enough silver to pay that tax plus the tax you owe on the sold silver.
So you'd sell something like $8.12 of silver to free up cash to pay your gold tax.

>>3280291
I see. Thanks for the help.

>>3276912
better to pay the taxes now than deal with the bullshit later
>sage advice comes across this board
>the autists fling shit at you rather than listen
i <3 the internet

>>3280304
And if you end up taking losses overall file to get your quarterly tax deposits back in your refund. The quarterly tax deposits might end up being a hedge against losses. You'd have some cash to show for it at least.

>>3280260
I was about to call you an idiot but actually.. according to forbes the irs treats crypto as property... there exists something called a 1031 exchange which states “No gain or loss shall be recognized on the exchange of property held for productive use in a trade or business or for investment, if such property is exchanged solely for property of like-kind which is to be held either for productive use in a trade or business or for investment.” ... does this mean you can trade crypto for crypto and not pay taxes until you cash out??

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/07/10/what-you-need-to-know-about-cryptocurrencies-and-taxes/#631a1e951a95

https://apiexchange.com/what-is-a-1031-exchange/

>>3280291
So in reality, you can't just hold and forget about anything you buy...? What if an anon invested in BTC 5 years ago, forgot about it and just now manages to find their wallet and access the funds -- what do they do about the past years in which they paid no taxes?

What if im literally too retarded to do taxes like this.

Can I claim that in court when IRS comes after me? Retardation?

Theyll see that i put 1 btc on McGregor to back my claim up.

>>3280348
If I'm understanding all this correctly, they wouldn't be paying taxes on it because they weren't making trades. They wouldn't have to pay taxes on that 5 year hold until they cashed it out or traded it for another coin.

>>3280348
Taxes are paid on gains. Gains are made by selling lower than you bought. You don't nake gains while holding, it's just the price going up.

>>3280369
>>3280383
Okay, yeah that sounds right. I realized after posting how retarded that question sounds.

What if someone just traded crypto-to-crypto for 5 years without ever cashing out to fiat or paying taxes, though? What would they have to do?

>>3275973
>trump's a good president I swear!
>still hadn't abolished taxes

>>3280348
Amend your prior tax return for the year when you bought BTC to establish the cost basis so you don't pay taxes on 100% of its value later. You don't owe taxes until you sell or trade taxes.
>>3280345
This is a good way to get audited and considering how much shilling people here do for altcoins it's hard to argue ETH fulfills the same purpose as BTC so good luck if the IRS audits you. Maybe you'll get the retarded auditor in their office.

>>3280394
Sounds like they're overdue on their taxes and better pay them ASAP - if they've been making profitable trades.

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>people talking about making $100k in crypto earnings
>too cheap to pay $200 for a tax professional to handle it for you

Trust me guys, it's worth it. My dad went to a cpa (certified public accountant) to get his taxes done "for real" and she saved him tens of thousands of dollars on taxes he had accidentally overpaid the year before.

>>3280397
What kind of penalties are we talking for overdue taxes?

>>3280394
Amend prior year tax returns and pay the owed taxes, possibly with interest and penalties. But it'll keep you clear of tax evasion criminal charges and there's no statute of limitations for tax evasion so your penalty interest will compound until paid if they can prove it was evasion.

>>3277141
You think they cant? Bureaucracy is fucking scary man.

>>3280427
Wait does that mean if I get audited, they'll do the coin-to-coin trade value work for me and just let me know how much I really owe in the end?

If I just take a "best guess" at how much I should pay and it comes out to what the audit results are, how bad would that be?

>>3280419
Thanks anon.

But I feel like such a cuck now. I really can't stand this shit. Why should I be forced to put in all this work AND end up paying for it? You are throwing away time and money all at once when you do this. I don't philosophically agree with this approach.

And by work, I mean figuring out how much I owe.

>>3280397
Well dumbass, since cryptocurrency is considered property by the IRS, as in it is treated the same as land, then BTC and ETH are both the same fucking thing. You aren't 1031ing BTC for gold.

>>3280454
No, it means they will meticulously go through every data point relating to how much money you owe them.

>If i just take a best guess at how much i should pay and it comes out to what the audit results are, how bad would that be?

Guess high, and they wont say shit

Guess low, and you will be in shit

This is all assuming you are working with numbers high enough for them to care though. A few thousand in one year isnt going to rustle anyones feathers, its practically under the table income. But a few thousand a year for a decade will get you rammed so hard by the IRS that you will forever be a spokesman for them, warning literally everyone you meet to pay their fucking taxes.

>>3280524
Dot dot dot

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>>3280409
Again, Wesley Snipes hid his mills of income and went to prison for a few years lately.
We ware spared more Blades sequels.
Shit can hit the fan for anyone

>>3280532
>Guess high and they won't say shit

I already pulled out my 10k initial investment.

So if I cashed out all 20k of my gains and paid 20% capital gains on it (4k) I shouldn't realistically expect any trouble for not reporting each individual trade?

>>3280652
I'm no expert but it seems to me that if the taxman gets his dues then he won't bother you. Especially for anything under 100k.

Is there any way I can get my hands on minute-to-minute historical Bitcoin data? Raw data in CSV format.