HODL master race, report in

>>2822713
>quick money

Compared to smart daytraders, no. Still a good investment compared to most stocks, I guess.

>>2822731
>smart
>daytraders

Pick one

>>2822713
>lost 30% of his investment
>somehow claims to have made 10x
wow it really works!


>>2822739
one buy is still as risky as any other. if you react to trends you at least can average out the risks, which may be good if you're smart and bad if you're dumb dumb.

so why do these super successful daytraders never post any proof?

oh right, because you are all a bunch of larping teenagers gambling away your lunchmoney

FWIW I know legit, professional forex daytraders. and they would never touch a market as batshit crazy as cryptos. so keep larping you faggots. meanwhile HODL masterrace gets rich slowly without lifting a finger

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>>2822713
this is a troll post but i will also respond with one myself

>>2822787
the emphasis of your post is that traditional traders wouldn't buy at all. my point is that buying and holding is a retarded strategy in volatile markets compared to buying and having limit sell orders.

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>>2822713
Bought ETH when it was $3 thanks to based biz anons. Still hodling. Waiting for the next financial collapse, may be next month, next year, next decade, but it's coming.

>>2822814

buy and hold is the masterrace strategy in a bull market thats bound to go up anyway you pleb

>>2822713

look you retards im gonna make it real simple for you

cryptos are either gonna go ballistic in the next couple of years or jews are gonna kill it

so all you have to do is buy and hold. literally just do FUCK ALL and if cryptos succeed you will get rich

but no, thats too easy. so you get all these "daytrader" fags who claim they somehow cracked the code and can now time the market... something that even hedge fund managers dont accomplish

you fags are either full of shit or youre degenerate gamblers on a lucky streak who will get wiped out soon enough. either way, you fags are annoying as shit and should all be rounded up in concentration camps.

also Ive yet to see even ONE allgeed "daytrader" posting some proof. weve had tons of proof from hodlfags yet but not one daytrader has come forth. hmm I really wonder why...

>>2822739
Daytraders are dumb guise, not like us high-IQ Warren Buffet HODLers. Super-thin shitcoin markets are extremely efficient, there's NO WAY you can exploit their predictable volotility for consistent profit. JUST HODL GUISE!!!!

>>2822787
bro i'm 19 been killing it daytrading crypto for a year take your bullshit forex trading back to plebbit

>>2822882

larping teenager confirmed
why am I not surprised

lemme guess you made 50 bucks gambling on mommies allowance and now think youre a trading genius lmao

>>2822814
The funny thing is crypto is about 100 times easier to trade than Forex.

>>2822713
How does this strategy sound
Longterm bitcoin
Longterm ETH
MAYBE Longterm Ark
Daytrade shitcoins with bitcoin

>>2822787
You know, I've heard the exact same thing copy pasted about forex traders here yesterday. Are you the same person or is this becoming a meme?

>>2822894
you don't know anything old man crypto trading is the future of all trading enjoy getting raped by hedge funds in forex

>>2822835
no, it's not.

>>2822926

you dumb fuck I dont trade forex and Im heavily invested in cryptos actually. but I couldnt "daytrade" if I wanted to - too busy making money in the real world

now go back to gambling with your paper route money you pimple faced brat

>>2822916
As in less restrictions and hoops to jump around? Or it's easier to time the market and make money?

>>2822713
Yeah OP. I love dumping my extra cast in to bitcoin. Works so much better than letting it rot in the bank. Saved up 1500 last month when normally I cant save 300. Its also exciting watching its value wave.

>>2822967
enjoy being a wageslave

>>2822871
>in a couple of years, my prediction is exactly the same to a larger magnitude as what trader use on a day/week basis
buy and hold is still timing the market you underage faggot.

>real simple
>i have no money

>>2822978

business owner you faggot
good luck with your mighty 50 dollar bets mr "daytrader"

>>2822992
>business owner
>doesn't understand trading
do you "buy and hold" inventory, old man?

>>2822979

are you fucking retarded?
betting on a longterm bullmarket you have to be right ONCE
"daytrading" you have to be right all the time
now whats a better strategy? hm? hm?

>>2822992
mowing lawns around your trailer park doesn't make you a business owner

>>2823002

>implying being a service provider is the same as trading highly volatie digital assets

maybe when you move out of mommies basement and start making some real money we can talk about "daytrading" again

>>2822764
>one buy is still as risky as any other

kek I bought Bitcoin at 70$ and ETH at 4$.

Tell me again how "risky" it is.

>>2823022

build marketing campaings for 9 figure companies
not that it makes any difference
becase youre wrong and a faggot, no matter what my business is

>>2823019
> "daytrading" you have to be right all the time

No. If you're right just 51% of the time daytrading you will make money.

>>2823041
if it wasn't risky then it wouldn't have been 70 and 4. or were you "smart" about when you bought????

>>2823039
>mommies basement
how many mommies does a "business owner" who can't sell anything have?

>>2823080

you still have to be right infinitely more often you mongrel

but why do I even bother with you faggots
the "daytrader" brigade is nothing but a bunch of teneagers pissing away their lunch money

if you had real money in the market and a real income you wouldnt even think about daytrading cryptos.

>>2823080
what are fees

>>2823019
>bullmarket
XD

how many times has there been shifts of 20%+ up AND down? you don't have to be "right" about anything, and you don't need to trade every minute, you just give yourself the option to actually make money instead of hoping you bought low enough at the beginning to come out ahead.

you are literally comparing the same shit on different time scales. if you think day traders lose money, then everybody loses money. i just personally think there is more flexibility with reacting to the market.

>>2823096
About 0.15% on Poloniex.

>>2823091
> you still have to be right infinitely more often you mongrel

No you don't. You can be wrong 49 times and right 51 times, if you repeat this method over and over with proper money management it will be profitable.

I get the impression your idea of daytrading is "Go all in on some random shitcoin and pray"

>>2823112

>who was long term perspective?

oh right youre an ADD-ridden teenager
never mind

>>2823134

dude
you must be seriously dumb

>bet on longterm bull market
>be right once
>get rich

VS

>daytrade
>make 10 trades a month
>have to make the right call at least 51%

now in what scenario do you have to be right more often?
hm?
hm?

>>2823134
don't try to talk reason into this old man

>>2823233
> now in what scenario do you have to be right more often?

Obviously on a micro level you have to make thousands of profitable trades as opposed to one profitable trade for HODLing.

But the point of day-trading is to take the element of chance out of the equation. I know if I keep applying my method my account will keep compounding through bull or bear markets, whereas just buying and hoping 'everything will always go up' is complete gambling.

>>2823080
you don't even have to be right 51% if you get good at seeing if shit goes down. If you see something going down perhaps you lose 1 % or 3% max, however when something go up it usually goes up a lot more. Atleast with how the market has been before "the depression" now.

>>2823278

>i have a method

LMAO
hedge fund managers cant beat the market consistently
but you can
because you totally cracked the code on one of the most volatile markets on planet

ahahaha
that is really cute

I really dont get the bickering

you HODL for the only coin that actually matters: BTC

you "daytrade" these fucking garbage coins that kids think are going to be the Next Big thing they missed out on with BTC. I never had any faith in ETH, i just trade it because I know if i buy a few eth while people are panic selling it i can turn around and sell it two days later and make a handsome profit without having done any real work.

Why bicker about this? You're only retarded if you actually sold bitcoin.

>>2823278
Can you tell me your method pls. I'm just a noob trying to find his way.

>>2823284

thats because EVERYBODY makes money in a bull market you dipshit
and thats why the daytraders always become eerily quiet once cryptos cool down for a minute

you faggots must really have the IQ of a toaster
the only upside is youre all broke ass teenagers so you wont lose much when you inevitably get wiped out

>>2823233
so what's "long term" for you in crypto? 5 years? 500 years?

there are people who bought bitcoin at 3k. they might have to hold for a year or two to make money. i make money every week. eat my ass retard.

>>2823310
>You're only retarded if you actually sold bitcoin.

noone is that retarded
not even "daytraders"
or are they?

>>2823295
>the stock market is the same as crypto
that's a really smart assessment.

>>2823329

>brags about making money every week
>he still doesnt understand some people actually have a real-world income and are not dependent on gambling on shitcoins
>he still doesnt understand hodlers get rich without lifting a finger while he wastes his time "daytrading" for pocket change when he could start a business and funnel the money into cryptos

I really tried, anon

>>2823351

thx for proving my point
yes as a matter of fact cryptos is way more volatile and thus even less likely to beat the market consistently

Profit taking master race here only $15 fee for every 1k its pretty fucking easy to day trade crypto

>>2823352
>implying trading a few times a week means that i can't have a job
>implying that buying bitcoin ever is not a gamble
>implying everyone who holds gets rich "eventually"
the fact that you get so upset makes me think your limit orders fucked you.

again, if you think trading loses money on a week to week basis, then it always loses money. you don't even know what you're trying to say.

>>2823386

no its just that what Im saying is obviously way over your head and Im really starting to get tired of repeating myself and trying to dumb it down for you

>>2823382
Do you cash out to bank/paypal, or to USDT? I'm new to this, wondering what the best way to take profits is.

>>2823402
>guy doesn't understand the basics of trading
>tries to be condescending about jobs and "mommies" and how smart he is
>clearly bought high and didn't cut losses

you were emotional from the start. as if the very concept of selling gives you diarrhea.

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>>2823295
Yes, they can beat the market

>>2822731
>5% profit average for HODL while also being a risk burden
>Most stocks give out GUARANTEED dividend payout of 7-8%

You are literally losing money for no reason if you are a HODL fag. Yes this also includes people that bought bitcoin when it was $500 dollar a pop because it was years before it started to grow. You still lost money due to opportunity cost.

>>2823437
I'd say the winning hodlers are the people who mined like 1000 bitcoins when they were super cheap and then remembered them and sold when the price was $3000.

>>2823437
>Most stocks give out GUARANTEED dividend payout of 7-8%

citation needed

>>2822731
>smart daytrader
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH WOW THEY ACTUALL DON'T LEARN DO THEY HAHAHAH WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!

>>2823417

what gives me diarrhea is larping teenagers who come in here and brag about their "systems" because they managed to turn 50 dollars into 100 and now think they cracked the code to lamboland

Meh, there are some successful daytraders. Maybe. Or maybe they are just more lucky on average in their life.

I don't do it myself since I have terrible luck. I just buy more and HODL, that's all I do. Crypto is going up so you can just HODL and have guaranteed profits rather then fuck around.

>>2823620
i'm not talking about a system. i'm talking about how mad you are that the "sell" button exists and is used to make money.

>>2823637

you dont but if you look up teen-anon did just that
if you decide to gamble your money on shitcoins thats none of my business and I couldnt care less
my gripe is with these delusional faggots who think they have the market figured out... and who keep shitting up this board with their nonsense

>>2823637

>implying I didnt take profits

I know what a sell button is btw, thank you very much

Alright. Let us see some problems with day trading:

1) Crypto cycles don't last in hours, but days. A downcycle can last a week or more. This means that by trying to scalp and trade absolutely short movements you are wasting a lot of time, a lot of money on fees with little to gain.

2) Bigger swings are more predictable. Selloff from Ethereum bloat was predictable, selloff in preparation to Bitcoin HF was predictable. Some might argue that relative stability regarding SegWay implementation and new members joining EEA was also predictable and if you reacted to earliest info you could swing trade and profit.

3) If you have to be right at 51% trades - fees that means you still have to make a shitton of trades.

Now how many big swings like that will you experience? There are plenty of people who got liquidated when thinking ETH will sunk lower or who bought at top for some reason. You will say :"well, durr, just win 51% of trades", well yeah, but when will you be making all of those shitton of trades? When? You will sit at computer all day doing it? What about all the fees you will end up paying?

Tell me again why is not simply buying and hodling with regular rebalancing a better option?

Let us say I have a portfolio of 50% crypto and 50% index funds.

I can rebalance once a year. If crypto is 70% of portfolio and indices only 30% I simply sell 20% of crypto and buy 20% of indices to balance it back to 50/50, effectively buying low and selling high.

Isn't holding with annual or quarterly rebalancing a much better option?

You also have a lot of free time to do anything else. Crypto is 24/7 market, so if you want to take advantage of every swing when will you sleep?

And we know how unrealiable exchanges are, how much chance you have of getting "hacked" or having a fiasco with exchange lag where your stop loss gets liquidated like with Kraken.

>>2823671

>this anon gets it

faith in /biz/ restored

Half of these posts are cancer and op is a fag, but I'm hodling for the next year. succeed or fail I know the risks.

>>2823644
any investment ever is a gamble. we aren't talking numbers or logic ITT, I'm specifically saying that if you have high delta, you have high opportunity. even bitcoin RARELY moves up if you look at averages. other coins are worse to hold because they don't have a reliable history/circulation.

you are just as bad as the teens with a "system" because you think everyone who buys (somehow not a gamble if you never sell) will become rich. that's irony at its finest.

>>2823701

>implying I said bitcoin is a sure thing

I clearly stated its a gamble and might go to zero
not my fault you cant read

>>2823701
>Every investment ever is a gamble

lmao

>>2822713
if you have $1 and make 5%, you'll have $1.05

if you have $1.05 and make 5%, you'll have ~$1.10

if you have ~$1.10 and make 5%, you'll have ~$1.16

if you have ~$1.16 and make 5%, you'll have ~$1.22

.....if you do this for a year, you turn $1 into $54 million

but by all means, keep holding you fucking retard

>>2823701

also
>we aren't talking numbers or logic

yeah no shit

>>2823725

yes of course
what could possibly go wrong in this scenario
you got a SYSTEM over all, right?

>>2823739
in the past two months, after realizing the power of compound interest, the lowest I made was like, 7%

most days are about 12%

>>2823751

lets talk again in a year then

>>2823725
Yeah if that happened you would be on cover of forbes. So if it is so easy then why are you not there yet? How many hundreds of millions do you hold?

>>2823671
1. nobody said that day trading literally meant making big trades every day/hour. the only reason "day trading" is considered stupid in the stock market is because day traders who are known are usually cocky assholes who make most of their money selling advice and books, not actually making good trades.

2. if people can lose money day trading, then they can also make money day trading. the "problem" here is that you think people can't tell the difference between 1% movements and 20% movements. forget about this "predicting" nonsense as a distinction, holders are "predicting" that the price will go up, only after a longer time.

3. fees are very small in these markets.

>>2823717
>I HAVE A SYSTEM!

>>2823712
>"hodlers get rich without lifting a finger"
>"but i meant it was a gamble!"

>>2823762
Alright, so tell me what strategy and ruleset would you do for effective trading such as this?

Because you would basically have to develop a strict ruleset to avoid any emotions.

This means you can actually create a bot which trades for you only based on swing percentages.

Then you tie this bot with exchange API and make infinite money only tweaking your percentages from time to time.

Why aren't you doing this and why does this not work?

Also - why would you simply not hold with rebalancing with another asset? My example was stock index.

Rebalancing ensures you always buy low and sell high

>>2823785
>I have never heard of the bonds market in my life

You are, at most, 20 years old

>>2823320
calm down, jesus christ.
yes, most people make money in a bull market. that's a given. however, if you get good at calling when something will go up and it goes up 10% in 5 minutes like it has innumerable times in the past, you will make a lot more than simply holding.

but really now, let's retrace our steps: there is no dichotomy between holding and daytrading whatsoever, only a limit between how much funds you can allocate to both things. i also hold certain coins for example and i hold them for the duration it makes sense to maximize profits... no mumbojumbo here. it is possible to do both holding and daytrading unless you are a monkey that can't keep your cool like you.

for people like you just hold. that's all youre capable of anyway. and for your contention of me being a teenager, i am not. im a 30 year old man that makes my living daytrading and its going very well thank you. i also program various tools to aid me in this process which makes everything a lot simpler.

bye.

>>2823798
don't expect anons to give you their trading systems and secrets. Those were developed through hours of hard work and dedication with ups and downs

lazy, do your own work

>>2823834
That is a non-answer.

Giving out your stock/crypto trading system does not hurt anyone and this forum is created for such a reason. It is not like your profits would magically vanish.

>>2823798
Most people who build bots fail but i know for a fact that profitable bots exist as i have made them myself. I can't make a bot more profitable than trading myself though. Sometimes one trade the rumour and sometimes one trades the chart or sometimes you buy and hold because you believe in the tech & devs.

>>2823803
>what is supply and demand?
27

>>2823798
the strategy is generally to sell at +/-x% and assessing volume against time. it's just as unlikely that you sell at the bottom as it would be to buy at the bottom.

i'm sure bots can be effective, especially with smaller coins, but my only argument is that you cannot say that trades over one discrete time period in the future are generally losing but somehow trades over another time period are massive gains. your only real point was the fees and i said the fees are minimal if you do "get lucky XD XD."

traditionally it is considered that long term predictions are generally less reliable than short term predictions, but of course with high volatility you can quickly get fucked a few times in a row, which feels worse than ignoring movement altogether until it "moons." i believe that flexibility in the markets and avoiding greed are more effective than putting your money into volatile shit and waiting years.

>>2823905
then there are other various "tricks", but i won't tell you about them because fuck all the assholes on this board.

>>2823019
>betting on a longterm bullmarket you have to be right ONCE
So you need to be right 100% of the time.
>"daytrading" you have to be right all the time
You don't understand how to day trade.
>now whats a better strategy? hm? hm?
Day trading is the better strategy for me simply because I'm not correct 100% of the time and my goal is increasing btc (not usd.)

Day trading is like dual-wielding daggers, holding is like swinging a Zweihänder. I love these threads.

>>2823849
But if everyone found out this hypothetical method, then everyone would use it and it wouldn't work anymore.

>>2823995
will never happen

>>2823233
you're a retard. 90% of these coins will not exist in 10 years.


>now in what scenario do you have to be right >more often?
>hm?
>hm?

You cannot be this stupid. % wise, long term holders need to be correct more often you stupid cunt.

There is no meaning to counting the individual raw numbers. I hope you die, not in your sleep, but while you are awake in an excruciating fashion so that the world never needs to see your pathetic genes repopulate the earth

>>2824044
You're saying that if there was a guaranteed method to become rich off of crypto and someone posted it on a publicly available forum that it wouldn't spread like wildfire?

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I bought $100 worth of ETH at like $250. I've made no money. Wish I had more money to buy when it was at $190 or so.

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>>2823818
Kek. Youve probably lost everything already.

>>2824050

>% wise, long term holders need to be correct more often you stupid cunt.

Im really not sure if you faggots are really that dumb or youre just trolling at this point. im thinking its option #1 and thats a scary thought.

>being right once on a long term mega-trend
>vs
>being right 5.000 times on tiny trades in a volatile market
>"but anon, muh percentage"

you cant be possibly be that retarded. please tell me youre just joking.

>>2823818

>muh system
>muh algorithm
>muh various tools

lmao ok then
I guess ill read about you in forbes magazine soon

also

>30 year old man
>crypto daytrader

lmao this is really too much

>>2824162
Why is it so funny? I'm making more money than i did in my last job and im only making more and more...

>>2824199
>I'm making more money than i did in my last job

I have no doubt you do!

>>2824199
But if that is true you should have no issues leveraging with an automatic bot who follows your algo and then just become a billionaire via compounding. What prevents you from doing that?

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I just took the data from my trading bot and graphed it, the sharp drops are withdraws - I've withdrawn about 1.3 btc. It started with .05 btc. There's some funkiness in various places because it's still in development, it can wind up on the wrong side of a PnD, and this graph represents constant tweaking through 3 major revisions. Newest version went online 3 days ago, I'm happy with it.

>>2823834

fucking lol

nice try, but how this reads to anyone with a brain is "I dont know what I'm doing but dont piss on my fantasy"

trading "systems" LMAO, hoo boy

>>2824244
Dammit, wish I started learning about programming as a kid, I thought making money as a programmer meant working at some soulless company or being extremely lucky like Notch was with Minecraft, but I had no idea about markets or how code could help me make my own money that is fairly auto-pilot.

>>2824239
I could do this but i already told you i make more money buying & selling myself. Don't make me say it 3 times plox.

>>2824329
>I could do this but i already told you i make more money buying & selling myself.
But how is that possible? If you can't quantify your trading in pure math then it means you are being emotional and subjective in regards to your judgements

>>2824321
I'm cautiously optimistic about this latest version, the previous two would often make equal numbers of profitable and unprofitable trades when the market was going down or sideways... I believe I've fixed that. If I hit 10 btc I'll make a bot thread.

>>2824321
for me semi-automation works best. you can make a program that shows you all the relevant data, even picking potential coins so you don't have to browse through reams of coins and make buying into pressing 'b' and selling into pressing 'S' for example, have lots of statistics concerning the orderbook showing, etc. basically taking out 90% of the stress from trading.

>>2824244
although i do wonder which algo this dude uses.

>>2824357
I'm guessing he incorporates rumors into his human trading that the bot cannot pickup on? I'd be very curious to know what he's talking about though.

>>2824387
If your bot works well and everyone starts using it, wouldn't that fuck it up and make it unusable again?

>>2824393
But rumours might not come true.

For example, right now there is a rumour that Jihan will outchink us and back out of SegWit, causing HF.

So theoretically you should short, buying the "rumour" and then close short when he does this.

But what if this rumour does not come true and everything goes smoothly eh?

>>2824418
Well I'm not exactly sure, but I'm sure there's something that the bot can't pick up on, or maybe his code isn't as tuned as he'd like.

>>2824357
There isn't a single human being on the plane that can make something like what i do and quantify it in pure math. You know son, this is not a hollywood movie.

Even gigantic banks with teams of hundreds of programmers can't do something like that.

>>2824418
well, when i say "buy on rumour" i need to be more than reasonably sure, or atleast sure that enough people will believe that rumour driving the price up.

if im not sure, i don't buy. i might keep tabs on it though to see if the chart and orderbooks support the contention and then i might buy.

>>2824484
>There isn't a single human being on the plane that can make something like what i do and quantify it in pure math. You know son, this is not a hollywood movie.

Have you heard of Renaissance Technologies?

>well, when i say "buy on rumour" i need to be more than reasonably sure, or atleast sure that enough people will believe that rumour driving the price up.

But where do you find this rumour information first?

>>2824540
>Renaissance Technologies
Iv'e heard about it. For me it's mostly a question of time vs benefit. I could spend a year coding something super complex that might net me 10% better lazy-income but id rather spend that time trading. I also learn things through trading which i then can implement as automatic processes or semi-automatic processes. this seems a better use of my time than trying to shoot for the holy grail immediately.

>But where do you find this rumour information first?
The internet? dev slacks, github, twitter, sometimes here. i have a shitty aggregator that barely holds together that i made that helps me sometimes, but i have to improve it.

>>2824628
Can you teach me? I will be your apprentice and do manual work for you.

Are you interested?

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>>2824399
>if you let the market know your strategy it will adapt
Yeah, that's why you don't see bots that "just work" for sale - you see these pieces of shit with a hundred settings. Maybe there are working bots in there, if you've got everything set just right, but I doubt it.

I was thinking about writing a decentralized P&D bot for /biz/ since that would actually work better the more people were running it. The problem there is that you don't want to dump on other instances of the bot, since at that point you might as well be a 3rd world telegram group, but I've got a solution in mind.

>>2824667
Like work in my garden? No, lol. I don't have much time anon, and im trying to write a book about something completely unrelated in my spare time.

If you want to learn this stuff, try to stay humble but not pussy-humble. it's a fine line to walk and most people end up on the extreme side and either become arrogant ignoramuses or weak-willed retards.

if you want to learn programming i would learn something like go or python. probably go, if i had to start at scratch but python is generally know to be better for finance stuff(they don't tell you it's useless unless you know the finance stuff though) and get a good book and invest some months being retarded.

>>2825544
oh and if you ever try to implement the orderbook through poloniex websocket wamp api, just realize it is bugged and you WILL miss some updates unless you strongarm it with updates from REST api now and then. Took me two weeks to figure out that. The joys of programming.

>>2825726
*wamp