Capital gains taxes

bump i wanna know too, this confuses me. do we pay taxes on the fiat we pull out, or does the tax get pulled on the entire capital gains we have even if we only pull out a few hundred bucks?

>>2364123
>does the tax get pulled on the entire capital gains
That would suck so much because of fluctuation. It would mean for example paying super high taxes on $20000 gains in one month, no matter if the next months are bad.

Called 2 professional accountants today:
>I'm looking for someone who can assist me with Bitcoin and other crypto currencies
1. "Bitwhat?"
2. "I only read about it in the paper, sorry"

So I will see a lawyer who's well-versed in crypto currencies next week. $300 / hour fee...

>>2364095
>My plan is to cash out the bare minimum to survive to save taxes, like $1500 / month.

good way to get charged with structuring and
have all your financial assets seized

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Hold on your BTC for 10 years dumbass.

By the time you cash if you need too, you will not even be able to report any details because chances all the exchanges you used to trade shitcoins will be defunct.

Example, I traded on Crypsty and Mintpal and I have no fucking data on those trades if they asked.

I will just pay capital gains tax once and that's all.

>>2364332
>Hold on your BTC for 10 years dumbass.
Rent
Utilities
Food
Clothes
Health insurance

>>2364095
no, you gtfo of the US, give up citizenship, and finally be done with this piece of shit country

>>2364289
...what is structuring?

>>2364374
>>2364289
It's only structuring if you attempt to conceal financial crimes.
I want to pay taxes on the $1500 / month

>>2364343
Get a job in the meantime. Is that seriously so difficult? It shouldn't be, especially if you don't need to save.

>>2364374
1500 a month would not be structuring don't listen to him, 9,999 would be structuring. you need to do more research though.

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>>2364386
>Get a job

>>2364384
makes sense.

And if your withdrawal is low enough, you'd be below federal poverty levels so no effective tax anyway, right?

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>>2364405
>And if your withdrawal is low enough, you'd be below federal poverty levels so no effective tax anyway, right?
That's the question.
I don't know if you pay taxes at the time of the altcoin trade, or only for fiat transactions.

Will know more after I see the lawyer next week. They specialize on international tax law and crypto trading.
It will be interesting to visit the fancy skyscraper in the financial district as a neckbeard NEET with turbo-autism

>>2364397
Yep.

Seriously, working part time isn't so bad if you have fuck you money; your employer becomes expendable.

The biggest thing that sucks about working is if you can't quit when you're being mistreated because you need the money. If you don't need the money, working becomes a lot more enjoyable.

>>2364384
Not true. 91% of people who got their money seized for structuring were random small business owners who lawfully paid taxes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/04/05/91-of-irs-seizures-for-structuring-involve-lawful-taxpayers/#403dcb251235

Then the IRS said sorry we'll move on to busting "money launderers". Think they won't be looking at crypto sellers?

http://www.relocation-monaco.com/monaco-residency.html

/ thread

>>2364095
>>2364289
>>2364374
>>2364384

I made a thread about structuring a couple days ago.

>>2329796

>>2364453
>>2364484
Scary. Just reinforces my decision to lawyer up before withdrawing a single dime to my bank account
The few hundred bucks for the lawyer are nothing if they save you from trouble with the law

>>2364352

This. Don't put money you need for daily life into crypto. Crypto is for LONG TERM... which in the accelerated world of crypto is still only like 5 years, 10 maximum.

Once you have your million or whatever, then you relocate somewhere without capital gains and cash in.

Will changing citizenship, etc. be easy? No, it may be hard. Alternative is paying capital gains... but "how do i cash in my 7 figures" is a pretty good problem to have either way.

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>>2364484
>>2364501
well then what is the actual process? this doesn't make any sense to me. It seems like the no cash out meme really is true because it seems like you're fucked up the ass no matter what route you take and you follow the letter to the law. Fuck this gay faggoty earth

>>2364540
Work sucks, tho
I'd rather live the glorious NEET life for 5-10 years
20% of my crypto gains can easily cover that

>>2364501
Structuring is ACTUALLY a "thought crime".

>Sally cashes out $9000 a month from her business = legal.
>Sally cashes out $9000 a month from her business and is SUSPECTED that her INTENTION is so that the bank doesn't tell the IRS = 5 years in prison and asset seizure.

>>2364095
>>2364123

FYI in the land of donald trading alt coins is not currently realising a capital gain. only once you xfer back into a 'currency' which atm only includes USD and BTC. so CGT only relevant when you cash out

>>2364554

yes, that's fair enough, work is fucking hell I agree. the world of work is enough to make one suicidal.

$1500 a month is realistically not enough to draw the ire of the IRS.

Personally I don't want to deplete my holdings, so i wagecuck... for now...

>>2364585
>so CGT only relevant when you cash out
understood, but are we paying taxes on the withdrawn money or does that activate cgt on our entire assets? i can't seem to find that answer on the internet. Because if you just needed 1500 bucks or something but you have 100g in assets, you would be fucked

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>>2364588
I might get a job, but only if something cool comes along, like part-time, with colleagues that I get along with.
Maybe manual labor. I'm tired of office jobs.

>>2364611

if you convert 100k you pay CGT on 100k

if you convert $1.5k and leave $98.5k in coinz you pay CGT on $1.5k

>>2364646
>if you convert $1.5k and leave $98.5k in coinz you pay CGT on $1.5k
i hope that's true, can you spot me a source on that? i read through a few sites and forums but couldn't find definitive answer.

>>2364343
>wasting your BTC paying inane shit
stay poor

>>2364543
It's not guaranteed to happen to you but it's something that COULD happen because the laws are fucked up.

>>2364661

it is true. you haven't realised any gains on the $98.5k yet. imagine having a property portfolio of 10 houses - if you sell one you don't pay CGT on all

>>2364540

honestly this is pretty retarded, depending on what country you live in

in aus if you hold the asset for >12 months you only pay 15%

id happily pay $150k of $1m earned when i literally havent done anything except get in early

even on a $50k initial investment thats $800k tax paid forever cash.. why go to the trouble

>>2364661
I'm an actual financial advisor by day (nothing crazy, just Merrill Edge, so house accounts) but this is true. Cap gains are paid on what you cash out. Also, losses can be written off against gains and carried forward, so if you ever decided to 100k a shitcoin and lose 75%, hodl the records.

From what I've read, since bitcoins are considered property, every purchase is a taxable event, and sales tax must be paid on EVERY purchase as well, but buying and selling other coins with bitcoin is viewed as selling the bitcoins for fair market value and then using that money to buy the alt coins (and the opposite if you're selling alts for BTC), so each of those would also count for sales tax and capital gains. That's my understanding anyway, which is why I've only done like eight trades and am stopping until I account for all of these taxable events, but even just those eight is going to be a cluster fuck.

>>2364661
I know that capital gains are only paid on "realized" income . Only the income you convert to fiat. It would be crazy to pay it on your holdings cus what if that market drops 30% next day? And your still holding a lot. Whatever gains you actually realize in a certain moment in time is what you pay it on

>>2365116
>>2365081
>>2364985
thanks lads

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>>2365081
if I trade into fiat in an exchange like gemini, but leave it there and trade it back and forth between bitcoin and ethereum, do I have to pay capital gains on that? or is it only when I withdraw the fiat to my bank account? because technically any fiat I have in an exchange is owned by the exchange, not me

>>2365030

Ok I mean all of this is pretty theoretical but here's the thing: i fucking hate america and don't want to live here anyway.

I would much rather spend $5-10k on paperwork and bribery to become a citizen of some caribbean beach nation where i can live happily ever after, and use that $140k I didn't give Uncle Sam to buy a beachfront cottage.

but y'know, to each their own. see ya in lamboland

>>2364095
you only end up paying back taxes. why would they lose even more money putting you in prison if you are technically willing to pay what you owe? are you a felon already?

also, literally nobody on this planet knows how to apply current codes to cryptocurrency exchanges. you'll be fine in almost any case if you just estimated based on total income with the help of an adviser/accountant.

>>2365167
IRS would have to prove you went back and forth/ can request records, but anytime you cash out from an asset to fiat, it is a gain or loss event. Not sure how they will treat coin to coin. Exchanges most likely will have to fall into reporting compliance for AML/KYC soon, but for now I'd play the miner card. I have a rig, myself, to give credence to this.

>>2365259
yeah, you won't go jail if you just pay. Pay the man.

>>2365659
miner card ftw... holding onto my 4 s1s from early '14

>>2365680
>4 s1s
noice. I was off from work today as I needed to unwind after the hell that is the CFA last week. Spent all day looking for RX 580s everywhere within 20 miles of me. Found 5, gonna sell one and do a lil 4 GPU rig.

>>2364123
Every time you trade a coin for another is a taxable event anon.

Bitcoin.tax, put your statements in there from whatever exchanges you are on to see the damage.

>>2365659
Coin for coin is taxable in USA anon.

Sales tax on all the useless shit I'll buy is enough taxes now fuck off with this tax bs

>>2366147
Bullshit. Nothing is taxable until you cashout. Stop with this meme.

Gains are taxable in the year they are realized. Realization occurs when you exchange bitcoins for any type of other property; such as cash, merchandise, or services. This includes everything from haircuts to yachts. Essentially, any transaction involving Bitcoin is a realization event and triggers taxable gain. Note: IRS Notice 2014-21 expressly confirms this treatment.

>>2365180
>i fucking hate america

Why?

I mean I can think of some good reasons but it's not that bad

>>2366181
You literally are agreeing with me.

>>2364430
When you find out, please make a thread explaining it

>>2366181
2014-21 says coin to coin is also a taxable event though.

>>2366167
How the fuck are you supposed to value that as a gain. Buys 1 nigger coin, trades it for 2 chink coins. Owe IRS what now? You can't even prove you made a gain. What if someone sold 2 chink coins for 1 million dollars the same time you made the trade, but then a week after it goes to 0? You can't pay that, you don't have the fucking funds.

>>2366196
not going to argue national politics in /biz/. You like this vile shitheap of a country, you can keep it. enjoy paying your taxes.

>>2366281
I also don't understand how you could possibly be taxed on something you didn't cash out l m a o.
>make $15million in crypto one year
>"plz pay us $5million on your unrealized gains anon" - IRS
Top kek

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>>2364442
THIS
I just recently manipulated my boss into firing me. I get NEET Bux equal to my base salary for 6 months and free training for a new career. I only need bare minimum to survive since I paid off my house. I don't take any shit wherever I work because if I wanted to I could just lay around on the couch and watch my crops grow.
> muh secret green industry

>>2366281
they are both assets under the asset class 'cryptocurrency'. They would use historical dollar amounts to calculate.
I.E. own appl @ $119, sell at @126, $7 gain
Buy AMD @10 a share, ~ 12 shares, sell @ 9.75, ~ $3 loss, NET GAIN : $4, long term cap gains over 12 mo, short term under 12 mos. Same applies for cryptos, even if you didnt go to fiat in between, IN THEORY. Im saying this as a financial advisor using my perception of the law to a client. IRS will likely argue what I argue and put burden of proof on you. This will go to court sooner or later, but until then we operate in a grey area.

>>2366770
>none of this constitutes advice, just my perception of my understanding
>this post is meant to be taken as satire on a Ethiopian basket weaving forum for cryto enthusiasts

>>2364397
Meirl

tfw you have 300k in crypto but too lazy and stupid to go to school or get a job.

>>2366333
They would tax the gained part. Just because you jump one to another, doesn't mean shit. You cant claim loss or gain on the second until you exit a positions. If i make 100% on a stock, then move to another and have a 10% loss, it doesnt mean shit until i actually sell the second stocks, so the first gain is still locked and realized.

>>2366785
>this post is meant to be taken as satire on a Ethiopian basket weaving forum for cryto enthusiasts
lol, you sound like a fucking lawyer

>>2366819
lol dude, half the shit I tell my clients is bullshit overly regulated lawyer speak. But nothing I say should be construed as advice, its just experience. Im not a tax advisor, I just know shit about it.