Day Trading

>>1837324

You can't beat the market without algorithms,

>>1837324
stick to your day job kiddo

>>1837325
Your statement is only half right.

You can't beat the market.

You will never have a day off

You cant sleep at night fearing you'll be broke the next morning

Keep your job, invest 1/3 of your monthly pay, quit job after 20 years and enjoy your golden years, day trading sucks everything out of you

>>1837325
>mad that he lost all his money trading shitcoins

>>1837324
Takes a special type of person to trade anon. Most people fail miserably at trading

>>1837324
Ok. I swing trade in options so it's a little different.

It's not about being right it's about risk management and understanding how people use products to make markets move.

For example, a stock goes on a new trend for three bars on your daily chart. Why?

1. New information has entered the field and inveators are adjusting their positions in the market.

2. People are trading off the price movements. For example, someone hits their price target and sells and it, assuming thin volume, it hits my stop order then I sell all my stock. Then someone else's stop order is hit and they sell and it goes down. Then someone's limit order is hit and it goes up. You have automatic price fluctuations.


Number 1 becomes more important the further out you are trading. What seems easier? Analyzing the effect of new information or predicting price fluctuations? This is why good investors rebalance annually.

Former wagecuck here. Spent all my free time on trading and even spent a good amount on work when I could for 10 years

I think I just started to git gud

*at work

>>1837325
Which algorithms do Warren Buffett and Carl Icahn use?

>>1837380

Quit after 20 years and enjoy being an incel cuck for the rest of your life because you were too exhausted wageslaving for the first 20 years and you're a disgusting old man for the rest.

Maybe you can get hookers, they only cost 10 times per hour what you make as a wagecuck.

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>>1837324

Start small and learn. Don't put 100k in right away.

I have been using a trade sim for a while, gives you 20k of pretend money to play with.

Plus500.com

>>1837490
Buy high sell low

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Deposit 26 k. But only use 1 k to trade worth for now so you can practice riding 1 min dips.

If you can work up to making 500 dollars a day, which is very possible, you will have a 100 k salary.

If you want a hard, stressful, boring, work intensive way to make small amounts of money go ahead.

You would make most of your money in morning, then you can clock out

>>1837359
You can't beat the market unless you're one of the 80% of hedge funds that consistently beat the market before fees.

>>1837324
Why would you quit? Just throw some in crypto, some in index funds, maybe some gold/silver, and a few NRAs and keep working.

>>1837615
>$500 a day
>$100k salary
Wait nevermind, it works because the market is only open 5 days a week.

>>1837324
If you make 20%, that would put you in the top tier of all traders but with income of only $20k.
You are also guaranteed to lose money when you are starting out.

Unless you have a million dollars to play with, day trading is a hobby, not a job.

>>1837781
Do you not understand the concept of leverage?

>>1837324
You're not psychic. You are going to be wrong a lot.

If i had 100k I'd use it to buy index funds over the course of months or years and hold for the rest of my life for a comfy retirement.

>>1837798
It's almost like he should use a stop-loss or something.

>>1837796
Isn't equity leverage limited to 2x?
I suppose it depends on what you're trading, but forex and options are both a good deal more random than equities and I don't think I'd trade either without an algorithm.

>>1837834
Yes equities are 2x
Futures and options my dude

>>1837867
Like I said, I wouldn't trade that shit without an algorithm. If you can program, I'd suggest looking into algorithmic trading.

Try kneepads first see if you enjoy the taste

move to slovakia, a months worth of living should be what you make max in 2 days. now that you have your labish life settled, block out anyone telling you 30% a month is illegal, remember you can get in and out un like longers (waoren buffet) so your risk is severely minimized

>>1837942
Nobody makes 30% a month except by luck, and that's not sustainable because it requires lots of high-risk plays. If Renaissance can't do it, an amateur sure as hell can't.

>>1837950
alright buddy, how about 25%

>>1837956
Even 10% would put you above Renaissance.
Anyone autistic enough to beat them isn't asking 4chan for advice on day trading.

Would it be fairly easy to make 1k a month?
I honestly don't need to make much just something to show that I can actually do something.

>>1838007
With 100k starting capital, that wouldn't necessarily be "easy," but it's definitely possible.
With 10k starting capital, it's close to impossible.

>>1837490
follow the market kek

>>1837380
>You cant sleep at night fearing you'll be broke the next morning

eh? daytraders ought to be flat by the end of day, no overnight risk

you might get anxiety if you've got no edge in the first place but then you'll be exposed to that regardless of timeframe

>>1837834
>Isn't equity leverage limited to 2x?

nope, especially not when daytrading

the daytrading firm will provide additional leverage... getting the size you want isn't the issue - finding an edge you can actually exploit rather than grinding away your account is going to be the hard bit

>>1837781
>If you make 20%, that would put you in the top tier of all traders but with income of only $20k.

absolute nonsense, the few people making a living on an intraday basis will require a few hundred% returns per year - it doesn't require lots of capital and most strategies are pretty limited in terms of the size you could trade

trying to compare a daytrader with say the returns of some fund managers responsibly for billions is just nonsense

if you can make 20% on several billion then you're one of the top traders in the world... if you're making 200% on 50k then you're not even close

>>1837950
this isn't true, plenty of HFT prop firms/market makers make more than this

that is why they're proprietary in the first place!! Why take client money if you're able to make such high returns but it isn't scalable.

For strategies generating lower returns/using less leverage you take client money (as much as you can get) and form a hedge fund, high return stuff you want to keep 100% yourself.

so for example XTX was formed from GSA Capital as they're focused on HFT/liquidity provision(mostly in FX markets)... which is a limited capacity/high return business so pointless to open up to client funds.

>>1837380
Being a day trader is great. You are your own boss. You will always be motivated because its your money. Its more exhausting to be a wageslave then day trader. You wake up every morning knowing that your life is in your own hands. You answer to nobody, its true freedom.
>>1837324
Invest that money in a couple stocks or etfs. Invest in what you know. Keep your job for now and use 10k to day trade after you've done some studying.
If you can turn that 10k into 80k by the end of the year you are ready.
Day trading will be extremely dangerous until you have a half a million.
Always leave yourself 3 months worth of survival money to pay for rent and food until you can get back on your feet in case you get fucked.

>>1838723
Are you a daytrader?
How did you learn it?

>>1837324
Read Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom by Van Tharp:

http://libgen.io/get.php?md5=A73BA7C6204DF25F36DA125BAF9EB56E&key=1WKTM68XWY44XMO1 (PDF)
http://libgen.io/get.php?md5=B5FAF71C9896B82324D5E90BB4131F9C&key=2INL8XYX8QP1HN78 (EPUB)

>>1838007
10% a month, yeah. Don't listen to the people stuck in the 90's that seem to think modern trading is some kind of buy and hold game. They'll throw out "algorithms" and stuff without even knowing what it means, it seems. With an account sized for just you (i.e. personal account), you'll have no problems. Just learn what works for you, and demo trade until you do well. Then start with a small $1k account or so.

100x leverage is normal if you're outside of the US, but unlike what people on here seem to think, that doesn't mean that you need to take huge risks. It's necessary to trade something like forex or indices. To get 10% a month, you only really need to do something like trade EMA crosses or whatever, something real simple, risk 1% a trade or whatever you're comfortable with. Read the book recommended up top, it might help if you're new.

>>1837612
Typical /biz advice

>>1838748
van tharp is god guy and yes were 3 year away from 2020

>>1837324
This setup btw isn't required OP I know people who do ok with 4 screens and a laptop.

Day trading can be heartbreaking but that is what makes it different than anything else. Today I had a mental panic lock because I just couldn't decide on what to invest in on the opening as there were two 10-13 dollar stocks in play + SPU and it was ALL going up. So I missed out on hundreds of dollars because I was looking for a particular setup about 6:40 and I never found it.

That feels really shitty man. However you can't even imagine the feeling of getting a great trade or the adrenaline of your first big 25K trade when you put your money down on a YELP that is running, it feels intense. You can't get that except maybe at the highest levels of surgery or lawyer.

Overall I would say pay actual money for some WarriorTrading videos and learn about all the various setups and patterns.

DO NOT trade all 100k at a time that is insanity. Fund a Suretrader and get Suretrader Pro and use margins and take maybe whatever your credit card can fund up to 5K and trade the fuck out of that even if you lose it all you'll learn a lot.

Then fund a Lightspeed or maybe Robinhood (with other software to chart with) with 30K. If you lose 15 then give up forever. Don't lose 100K if you don't have the talent.

I tried day trading for a while and I could never figure out how to make money consistently.

Luckily, I was day trading before, and during the stock market crash, so I was able to go long on an index fund near the bottom of the market.

I still do some trades for fun, but I'm not trying to make serious money with it. You can't expect to make a livable return on day trading.

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start small, backtest 500-1000 trades, mutiple instruments. the more recent the better, let the algos run.

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>>1837324
Go ahead and try. :-)
Here some of my stats.

>>1838853
holy shit teach me senpai

the only thing that makes day trading harder than long term trading is noise

>>1837796
Do you not understand the concept of receiving a margin call at 6am because a flash-crash blew up your 5 figure brokerage account?

>>1837950
Nobody can make 20% a year investing. If Buffet can't do it nobody can.

>>1838853
Nice paper-trading account.

>>1838951
flip the coin just right is the secret

>>1838853
lolll

>>1839426
then what do? how money?

>>1837324
Literal day trading is retarded, you want to trade over a period of a few weeks to months, and you want to use options.

Just momentum trade of 3x gold mining ETFs.

I literally alternate between JDST JNUG and have triples my money in 3 months.

>>1837324

Guide to becoming pretty rich:


1.DCA and autodeposit 5k each month into a biotech fund

2.Repeat for 30 years

5.be richer than 99% of humans

day trading is literally just a casino where the robots scalp you instead of the indigionous

>>1839446
>what is employment, autodeposit, and real estate

>>1837324

Depends on what markets you're trading. I'm getting back into day trading with forex once the house is sold and I have actual cash to put into play.

You can be profitable, there are plenty of people that are profitable. Key thing is do a ton of demo trading beforehand. I'd say a minimum of 2 years. My first year live was a disaster. I practiced through a really calm period in the markets, and let my positions go too far into the red.

I then dropped back down to demo again, and about 2 months in, that's when I hit a eureka moment when I was looking at the charts.

Tried out the new method, turned $5k into $12k over a span of 8 months.

Hawk the forums, you're likely to find a trader or two that's successful and will give you some sound advice. Disregard a lot of educational info (especially in forex) that's put out there. With forex, it's you versus the big banks. They want to trap traders into opening positions at the wrong time.

A lot of them have this mindset of that some losing trades are still good trades. That risking 20 pips and trying to get 60 pips, and watching the candle drop just past 23 in the red, only to go 80 in the black afterwards, is somehow a good trade.

Always anticipate someone else is trying to trick you. With the right indicators and mindset, you can be successful. Just remember it's a David vs. Goliath thing.

>>1839413
thats why you put a stop loss on your trades , or am I mistaken?

>>1839706
Not valid pre/post market order type

>>1837816
>stop losses are magic market beaters or something

>trade goes below your stop loss
>you sell at loss
>immediately shoot back up to the green
Also:
>the stocks you do win on never make up for the losses you accrue
>because you are essentially trying to play chess against algo day trading bots that can think millions of times faster than you and make trades in fractions of a second

>>1839413
>non hedged
>no basic risk management
How fucking stupid are you?
Any annual losses bellow 20% is unacceptable.

>>1839714
That's likely because you had a shitty entry to begin with or have no self control(fear overcomes). You also could be a victim of stop hunting depending on the market.

>>1838853
that isn't dat trading - you've given a sample size of 24 trades

if you were consistently making 24 trades a day and you returned 1000% after a month then that would be much more impressive

>>1839706
not going to necessarily help you, if the market gaps through your stop then you lose a lot more than you intended - if you then don't have enough margin left in your account to maintain your other positions then you'll get a margin call if you're lucky... though with quite a few discount brokers they'd simply liquidate your other positions.

>>1839898
if you're trying to capture market movements using delta one instruments then you're often not going to be hedged against such movements... otherwise you'd simply be making it much harder to be profitable

>>1839714
Where do people get this idea that algos are some kind of superhuman AI?

People don't use algos because they're smarter than skilled traders; they use them because they're faster and cheaper (or because they themselves are not skilled traders)

>>1837607
You mistyped trans500.com

>>1837490
They have enough capital to be able to control the market

>>1837950
Renaissance cant do it because they impact market price with their size. Pretty sure any decent quantitative hedge funds could return double digits per quarter on average for 100k. Which is well enough to live in Slovakia.

>>1837324
Give your money to brokers.

>>1839714
This is the same kind of anti-trading coping you see on plebbit.com/r/investing

Have you ever actually read the source code for any trading bots?

>>1837664
source pl0x. not trying to be a dick

>>1837607
Yeah, definitely do simulated trades for a while to practice.

>>1837490
value investing isnt day trading

>>1837490
>control the economy, control the stock market

>>1839449
This.

Options are underrated.

>>1842739
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/90-of-fund-managers-beat-the-market-but-their-shareholders-dont-2015-01-21

Actually 90%

>>1839714
You trade crypto right?

>>1837410
>it's about risk management
This, its all about this

>>1837324
Day-trading is a waste of time, you'll make more working full time and day-trading is a full time job unless you take part in manipulating the market in which case it's worth doing as long as you don't mind possibly being fucked at some random point.

But trading with a 2-20 week outlook isn't a bad idea, it isn't too difficult to make 100% a year if you manage risk, leverage and have accurate foresight.

Pro-tip: don't aim for more than 150% a year.

>>1837324
open a forex account and trade

>>1838007
Go balls deep on decent opportunities and don't get shaken even if it takes 6 months to ride out the money wave. Usually the market corrects irrational behaviour within a quarter. The latest trend is short the S&P 500 because it should pull back having little justification for current valuations. On 5X leverage a 6% correction is a 30% net gain. Pull a stunt like that 3 times a year and you'll do OK.

Put 100k on forex max leverage short the euro. Wait for 10 pips u just made 10k? Do it again for the next ten days until u have 100k. Go to blackjack play 5k max bets with 100k also match the dealer option. Either double 100k at blackjack or lose it all. Repeat on forex

>>1839455
fucking this

>>1844363
did this and made $1400 in a day with options

>>1837490
they buy entire companies

>>1837324
>put 100k into a diverse profolio of healthy, companies with relatively low but stable dividend payout
>continue to work and put whatever you don't use into your profolio
>???
>reap in the greens

don't believe that day trading crap, you will be behaving like what >>1837380 described. You will hit a few jackpots on the way but overall your relative gain would be minimal because it will be balanced out by the various small loss suffered all those years.

The worst case scenario is that if your profolio starts bleeding money for whatever reasons, since you have no other source of income you will be eating into your profolio's fund and the gain you will make will progressively become smaller.