Precious Metals General /PMG/

>>1829119
Feeling buttflustered that I have to pay VAT on my silver here in Yurop.

Cant you buy coins without paying that? I think an Anon in teh last thread said something about it being VAT free in Estonia?

Some would be angry that the price of silver is going down, but I'm actually happy. This is a good opportunity for new stackers to start collecting. An order I'm reviewing went down over $40 overnight. I can't say that it will go lower, but now is an excellent time to pick up a few ounces.
Also thanks OP for making this a thing.

Here are some sites that I peruse for US Anons:
http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/
https://sdbullion.com/
http://www.jmbullion.com/
http://www.apmex.com/

Mike Maloney from Gold&Silver is an excellent resource to understand the market.
https://goldsilver.com/hidden-secrets/

And a video of Mr. Maloney explaining the practicality of Gold & Silver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5VNAEmmBQM

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>You can't eat gold.
Why do nonstackers always think we're prepping for a zombie apocalypse?

>>1829490
It's vatfree in Estonia, but the shipping costs rapes you unless you buy huge amounts every time.

>>1829568
True, can you (legally) go pick it up and bring it back? I'm sure it might be a pain in the ass, but if you're seriously looking to buy a lot (like $20k or something) it might be well worth a weekend trip to some Estonian dealer.

>>1829663
I could easily do that. But if I wanted to buy 20k, I'd just pay for shipping. It's just that if I want to buy 10-15 ounces, shipping would be a large percentage of the price. Much less so if I wanted to buy 1000 ounces.

If I ever visit Estonia, I do plan to buy a few pounds of silver.

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>>1829550

Because dumb cunts gonna dumb cunt.

It's a way of retaining and gaining purchasing power and wealth, a hedge against inflation. That's about it.

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Japanese video game from 2000 gives a good synopsis on why to stack

1/3

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>>1829980

2/3

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>>1829984

3/3

>>1829980
what game

>>1829993
dark cloud on ps2

Anyone pick up any deals today since the price of gold and silver went down? I picked up some philharmonics. Hoping to pick up some more while the economy is seeming to do well.
>>1829980
Gold is money, a dollar is currency. The point still stands. I think of precious metals as insurance, it just depends on what timeline you're operating under.

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>>1829989
based Japanesebros

Why do most people feel like they "don't need" gold and silver?

I was the same, I used to say that I "dont need" a gun... Now I'm a silver stacking /k/ommando.

>tfw

>>1829537
This might be of some help for spanish fags such as myself
My personal favourite and the best price for your buck in bullion at unbeatable prices is
https://www.andorrano-joyeria.com/precio-del-oro
They also are an over the counter shop so if you live in barcelona forget about shipping fees you can buy there,owner usually goes to forums and is really nice guy,absolutely cheapest prices I found.
If you live in madrid there is also
http://www.degussa-mp.es/es/index.aspx
This is a well known german company,coins are more expensive and somewhat in line with other companies,good thing is over the counter huge store in madrid so no fees,and best price in bars them nazi gold..
If you're spanish fag I recommend this forum,you'll meet very very knowledgeable guys,some pros,some dealers some investors and gold bugs in general who can teach you everything you can ever need,pro tips,be polite and you'll get lots of great advice,some people are there with a life time experience in the trade...great thing is you can meet and buy from them,so expect no taxes,and spot prices every now and then... always check for olddogs with a good reputation as trustworthy
http://www.burbuja.info/inmobiliaria/bolsa-e-inversiones/274956-hilo-compra-y-venta-de-oro-y-plata-foreros-iii-300.html

>>1829490 It was me usually they sell if vat is 21 %they will sell at 20% price over spot less you know people there

>>1829119
I picked up 2 of APMEX’s 10 ounce bar deals yesterday. Great deal!

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Commencing small dump of my stack circa early 2016

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>>1830672

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>>1830675

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>>1830678

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>>1830683

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>>1830684

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>>1830685
fin.

>>1830678
Any attraction to sunshine silver besides their price? Sweet stack anon

>>1829119

What kind of place do I go locally to sell physical gold that I bought online?

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>>1830888
The security micro-engraving and decoder lense makes it easy to prove authenticity.

>>1830686
Respectable stack

what do you all think of the Geiger bars? worth the extra price or no?

also whens the next run to 40$? this year? lol

>>1830675
1/10th ounce rounds are just soo nice to have

>>1831257
How's the premium on those 1/10ozt rounds?

What's the best way to have silver to run your hands through? I've been thinking of buying a whole bunch of really rough Morgan's for the purpose but the generic silver on APMEX looks easier to liquidate.

>>1829119
Ah, Apmex's sale ended, they're back to 79c/ounce over, OR MORE. No longer a good deal...

Anyone get in on them while they were 29 cents over?

>>1832574
>>1832574
Didn't get the deal, and paid $1.90 over like a chump, but I did pick up rounds when silver went down to $17.90 an ounce, so I saved a bulk of shekels with that.

>>1832627
Ouch Anon, $1.90 over is enough premium to buy virtually any beautiful niche bar, and some coins are only $2 over whrn new...

For 75 cents or 89 cents or so, sometimes even 69, you can get generic 1 ounce tounds new from JMB's sales section. Theyre almost always having this deal.

For new anons here, Apmexs regular pricing isnt very goid normally. Unless theyre having a sale (which they do god-tier quite often), metal is always cheaper at JMB or provident

>>1832789
They were Philharmonics, so yeah, I did pay a pretty good premium on them. They're the only special silver coin that I'll buy
>Provident
Thanks, I remember seeing that site somewhere and completely forgot about it.

>>1832813
If you bought Philharmonics for $1.90 over you did just fine IMHO. I thought you bought dusty old 10 ounce bars for that haha

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>>1829119

This is my little jew cache.

About 20 ounces silver and a little bit of 14k in jewelry gold and random foreign money.

Shooting for 50 ounces silver and about 3 ounces gold by mid year.

>>1832926
Not bad anon. Why so much gold? I think a lot of people have like a 50:1 or 70:1 ratio

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Picture is just my gold bullions circa 2013. Should probably get around to making new photos which aren't blown the fuck out and reflect my current collection.

Also have bars and a bunch of collector coins. Currently sitting on 2,132.816 grams of gold according to my spreadsheet. At today's spot that would put it right around 80k EUR - collectors' value should be substantially higher. Also sitting on ~4.2 kg silver, mostly inherited coins. Fuck silver. It's just bulky and never really goes anywhere. Silver bullion is a recent idea that is at least theoretically viable (if VAT didn't make it a god-awful investment for me), but the metal value in all my old silver coins never comes close to matching the nominal value, let alone the collectors' value (most of them are Proof). Just as a metal it's an industrial raw material, not an investment as far as I'm concerned.

I usually buy straight from the mint, since I happen to be living in Austria. It's arguably not the cheapest, but I really appreciate having no hassle and complete confidence in not getting scammed. Also, being a decade-long customer, I often get first row on really good rare issuings with them.

I have no illusions. This is basically all lost money to me. I'm probably never going to sell, even though I own duplicates of most stuff I've bought in the last decade. But I don't stockpile either. I don't believe in a currency crash or whatever goldbugs fear. I just collect nice shiny coins with money I don't need.

So, is silver/gold actually worth investing in? I don't see the returns being better than putting the money into a fund, unless something insane happens.

>>1833051
Physical gold not a main investment by any means. You'll find hardly anyone recommending putting more than 10% of your net worth into it. Anything beyond 20% is probably deeply unwise.

But it is still worth investing in as it's an essential part of a balanced portfolio. Gold is a hedge. Traditionally it has moved anti-cyclical to the stock market. Since it goes up in times of crisis and uncertainty, it helps stabilize your net-worth long-term and provides you with an asset you can sell when you need money and all your funds just tanked last month.

There is no single best investment. It's the mixture that makes it work.

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Just picked up pic related today, this is my only silver besides an old quarter I found. Paid $20 each (owner of local store charges $2 over spot), is that decent?

>>1833299
Totally! Theyre usually $3-4 over spot online so I think you got a great deal, and probably a good shop too if they gave you a deal and didnt try to take advantage of your newness.

Congrats anon. I bought some ugly ass genaric secondary market rounds for $19.80 each last year when i was new, like a retard, so at least you got sweet coins for the price. Did you ring them together yet? Silver Eagles have the nicest sound of any coin Ive seen.

>>1830678
what's that stuffed toy there? Do you fuck it

>>1833324
Its head fucks him ;)

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Reposting a bunch of my stuff lying in my room to look at once in a while.
I'm maybe different from others in that i like coins more than bars.

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>>1833357
my favorite silver coin.

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>>1833360
And some of my gold before i put them away. Too valuable to leave them lying around.

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>>1833366
This one is pretty too, for a bar.

>>1833368
Very beautiful, I think the gold accentuates it also.
>>1833360
Pretty, I'm considering setting out the dosh for a Year of the Rooster for my birth year.

>>1833324
>>1833328
https://youtu.be/nsY2EeUuLj8

I am almost afraid to buy gold and silver with beautiful designs on it, because I feel that I will see it more as a collectible as opposed to a hedge. It would make me not want to sell if the time ever came, I would imagine.

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>>1833562
So buy non-serialized rounds that feature only the mint's logo. You get to buy silver without having to part with fancy pieces later.

>>1833594
That's exactly what I do. It is also cheaper.

>>1833594
>>1833628

Sunshine has become my favorite.

1. cheaper (usually a lower over spot price)
2. nice simple design
3. valid anti-fraud mark

>>1833377
Well this year is the year of rooster so rooster themed coins will be plenty and only at around spot price.
Usually Perth Mint is the one who always releases pretty looking coins.

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>mfw my grandpa bought a lot of gold for me in the late 90ies

>>1829469
germans sell it vat free as 2nd hand
i wouldnt suggest buying much silver beyond yearly coin mints for resale in the future.

gold bullion items are much more efficient for personal holds

Where is the best place to sell your precious metals? I really don't feel like taking 30k worth to the local coin shop and make an old man fork all of it up.

>>1833017
>I usually buy straight from the mint, since I happen to be living in Austria.
Is it really that much cheaper?
I'd assume all of the big box retailers (Ögussa/Degussa/…) should be having the same, rather high prices.
Where do you buy?
Do they have a store in Wien?

> Currently sitting on 2,132.816 grams of gold
Damn.
But why?

>I just collect nice shiny coins with money I don't need.
Ah, I see. Yeah, why not.

>>1834189
Coin shops are best though. If you don't want to carry 30k+ in silver make multiple trips one weekend so spot price doesn't move while you're in transit.

If you sell to a website you'll need to pay for shipping and insurance which cuts into your payout. If you sell to a private buyer you're subject to haggling, and if the private buyer is not close by you'll be paying for shipping and insurance.

Shipping it away leaves a paper trail for the tax man. The argument could be made that buying online leaves a paper trail anyway, but if the government comes to confiscate (re: 1933 confiscation) you can claim that you used your silver stock to settle private debts, and that you did not issue or receive any receipts. Once it's on record of being sold, though, the tax man will relentlessly try to collect capital gains tax.

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>>1834212
I suppose I am too empathetic in my dealings, but what can I say? I'm a people person.

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>>1834203
>Where do you buy?
>Do they have a store in Wien?
One in Vienna and one in Innsbruck, plus they have a webshop. You can also enter what's basically a subscription and they'll just send you the invoice whenever a new coin comes out on a series you're subscribed to. After you pay, they send you the coin (or they'll just reserve it and you pick it up with cash in one of their shops - great on series that keep selling out pretty quickly).

>Is it really that much cheaper?
Like I said, probably not if you only want to buy gold as close to spot as possible. If you want to buy newly launched editions they can be cheaper, since resellers would add their margin on top, plus the subscription gives you a fixed price on the date the invoice is printed. So if gold soars afterwards you can still pick it up cheaply.

>But why?
It happened, I guess. The stuff just builds up over the years. The big step in putting serious money into it came 2009, when I bought one of the 20 ounce commemorative Philharmonics (old picture related). 622g of gold in one coin pushed my total pretty high. It's weird. It cost me ~15.5k EUR, so 775 per ounce, but that included a 10% mark-up on spot I believe. Crazy to think that just two years later gold hit like 1,300 EUR per ounce. I joked at the time that the thing was the best damn investment of my whole life, but since I never sold the annual ROI keeps declining with every year passing and gold going sideways.
Then again I have no clue how much above spot they are traded since only 6,027 were minted and they all sold out.

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>>1834255
picture of the other side

>>1834245
In my opinion, if the old man isn't willing to pay you for your PMs he has no business owning a coin shop.

>>1833673
For me as well, same reasons.

>>1834264
The other shop I go to is full of faggots and will only pay $2.00 for foreign coins/bars of any kind, regardless of metal type (no they do not specifically advertise to be a purely American coin shop either). I don't want to get $2.00 for my Maples...

>>1834326
>will only pay $2.00 for foreign coins/bars of any kind, regardless of metal type
Those faggots are not an option.

Any jewelers in the area?

>>1834258
why does it say 2000 euro on it?

>>1834373
It's 20ozt. 1ozt coins are usually $50-$100 so the math checks out.

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>>1834373
Because everything the Austrian mint issues has to be Austrian legal tender.

Since they can never sell anything below nominal value (it would be a guaranteed loss and literally free money for the buyers), they have to take care that the metal value is always bigger than the nominal value. So they put comparatively small nominal values on coins to ensure they can still sell them even if the metal tanks. The nominal value is only meant as a absolute bottom safeguard against complete devaluation. If tomorrow everyone decided that gold is worthless, the government would still have to take back the coins for their nominal value, so they try to keep it low.

Since the 1 ounce Philarmonic is issued at 100 EUR (picture related; used to be 2000 ATS before the introduction of the Euro), it makes sense to issue the 20 ounce Philharmonic at 2,000 EUR.

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If you want to see it getting weird: When they came up with the new 1 ounce silver Philharmonics they settled on 1.5 EUR as the nominal value, because they needed something really low and 1 and 2 EUR are already normal coins in the Eurozone.

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>>1834403
>>1834417
The Austrian philharmonics are beautiful, and best of all they don't have the wicked witch Queen Elizabeth on it. Hag looks like George Dubya.

>>1834417
Do you know what year they switched?

>>1834964
Switched from what to what? They newly introduced silver Phiharmonics in 2008. Before that the Austrian Mint didn't issue silver bullion at all.

>>1836469
Must bump as well, been a while since I've had a good PM discussion.

Whats the thing you all wanna put lots of back this year? Honestly I might buy some platinum, looking at the charts I think its hopefully done going down, and has more potential than silver/gold

>>1836583
I mean I collect bourbon-barrel aged wine but I don't expect to sell it.

My dad, my brother, and I are talking about splitting the cost of some undeveloped land. I want to start a TD Ameritrade account this month or next and I plan to buy some REIs and tech stocks.

Otherwise, I'm scrapping copper wire and aluminum in my remaining spare time.

What've you got your eyes on?

>>1836605
>otherwise, I'm scrapping copper wire and aluminum in my remaining spare time.
A guy I work with used to be employed at a junkyard and once every week or so his manager would have some of the workers gather all of the computer cables they could find and toss them in a big drum full of concentrated nitric acid for a few days. Is that akin to what you do? I'm not really sure on the viability of it but my coworker said his boss wouldn't have been doing it if he wasn't making a fairly large sum of money.

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>>1834343
I didn't know that jewelers would buy metal. I am sure it would be different form company to company, but would you need to have your metal's purity certified in those cases?

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Anyone in this thread a collector of old coins? Not so much the silver eagles of today but the Morgans and such of yesterday. I recently bought a binder of some 80 foreign coins at a junk store in the town in which I live and there are some nice silver pieces in it. Nothing worthwhile really (save for a few interesting defective Canadian cents from '53) but the silver stuff in it is nice and shiny.

>>1837026
I started by collecting scrap wire from my job and turning it in as "dirty copper". After a bit of research I learned the scrapyard pays double if it's " clean copper" so I built myself a wire stripping bracket that really helps to streamline the process and now I run all my scrap wire through that before turning it in.

>>1837131
I have a small foundry at my house that I built myself. Would they possibly pay more for ingots, or just random scrap (that is clean, as you said).

>>1837151
What's your foundry set up like? That's really interesting.

>>1837153
It's just one of those steel bucket forges that runs off of propane. There are plenty of YouTube videos out there about it. I also bought a 1L crucible to go with it. I used to melt down aluminum cans from my uni, and then lathe them down into bars for our machine shop.

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>>1837153
>Pic related

>>1837160
>>1837166
That is incredibly interesting. What would you do with the aluminum bars?

I will check these videos out. I work at a aerospace factory and foundry and have access to a large amount of lathes and grinding equipment. There's also a lot of aluminum bars there but the only use for them aside from propping up parts is striking an arc on them and seeing the weird way they melt.

>>1837173
The bars I just would keep as "emergency" bartering material incase SHTF. As for other uses, I would also pour a rough cylinder and lathe it down into filler rod. Our school's machine shop is always full of people learning how to TIG, as well as doing senior design stuff. Sometimes our automotive racing team would use it as parts, but the quality of the aluminum you get is mediocre and needs to be refined/heat treated to be improved.

>>1837177
Do you think you could melt down silver coins and such and cast them into bars?

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>>1837322
>coins
Those are worth too much money for me to risk fucking up. I would prefer just to use scrap silver, and then do an investment casting of a ring or something. Theoretically, yes, I could cast coins into bars however.

So where are the best deals per ounce right now, since the sale is gone? And how often/ for how long did/does it last?

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>>1834255
I assume it's this one?!: https://www.muenzeoesterreich.at/
With their shop at the Heumarkt? Might check it out when I have to go to the big, bad city a few times next month.

Also:
>>1834255
>>1834258
Those pictures!
It should not amaze me that much, but it still does, that a small hunk of some yellow metal is worth that much. It certainly is big for a gold coin, but just purely as an object, it is actually not that large.
Enjoy it!

>>1837426
JM Bullion has a deal where new buyers can buy 10x 1ozt rounds at spot price. They also have weekly sales.

Right now they're selling 1ozt SMI Morgan rounds for only $0.79 over spot.

I live in portugal and have no idea how to get some gold bars besides getting jewed at buy-sell gold places.
Considering some virtual gold if it dips.

>>1837686
You probably can buy them at a bank. Not every branch will have some stocked, but I'd assume that you can "order" them. Maybe you have to be a customer of the bank to start with.
It'll probably be expensive, but might be better than the bey-sell gold places. Those are fishing for people selling gold, without any clue about it's worth, but I'm pretty sure that when it comes to selling the stuff, they know pretyy well what it's worth.

>>1837686
Are estate sales a thing in Portugal? If so I'd check them for 14k/18k gold and sterling silver jewelry.

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>>1837683
This famalam. Buy those 10 ounces first, then the best thing you can do is:
1) Watch these sales. They're usually only average, but can still save you some money
2) Sign up for APMEX's email list - they have god tier flash sales every week or two. Last week I bought a handful of 10 ounce silver bars for $0.29 over spot!

Provident metals has secondary market rounds even cheaper than JMB right now:
https://www.providentmetals.com/1-oz-999-fine-silver-rounds-our-choice.html

And if you want to buy a big bar (harder to sell, easier to impress people with lol) they have those for $0.59/over:
https://www.providentmetals.com/100-oz-999-fine-silver-bar-our-choice.html

This is good anons - keep the deals links coming.

Apmex is bringing the heat on 1 ounce silver rounds! These are great to stack because if you ever need to sell/trade one, they're a smaller denomination for low premium:

http://www.apmex.com/product/23/1-oz-silver-round-secondary-market

>>1830636
>>1837686
Portubro this is the place I buy in spain,so it shouldnt be so exoensive for you.
Forget apmex and shit because it's 49 plus for shipping to yurop so not worth it
Probably the best for you is trying to Google search something around your area or buy 1000 escudo rounds for silver or older silver coins from Portugal ,I guess it's the cheapest way to get junk silver..

I found a 1936 Philadelphia quarter. It's got about .18 oz of silver in it.
Am I a stacker now?

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>>1829927
>Not going out there and mining your own gold.
Faggots.

>>1839020
Are you serious though? Sorry we don't all live in Montana. I'm in oregon personally but p sure theres nowhere close enough to Portland to be worth the gas $$ to farm any? metals from.

>>1839017
you need two pieces of silver to be an official stacker

>>1839017
>>1839091
Cut your coin in half

I don't get it. What are people collecting this metal for?

>>1839112
Watch this and I'll bet you anything you want some metal too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0&t=33s

>>1839117
Watched like 20ish minutes. Still don't get the gold/silver stuff. Seems like you should be storing bullets and beans.

>>1839112
To hedge against poor stock performance, to play on commodities speculations, and to store wealth in the event of war.

>>1839144
How you going to pay for it when the economy gets fucked :*)
Since I'm assuming that's what you'd be preparing for stocking up on ammo and food.
Gold and Silver are hedges for the economy. When the going is good, the metals will be cheaper, though when the currency starts to lose power, you'll see its price increase. It's the buy low sell high model.
We're just larping waiting for the apocalypse in the meantime.

>>1839144
You need those for an actual collapse scenerio.

Silver/Gold hold their value, so when things settle down with the economy/country/world/etc you can sell them. You'll still have your purchasing power, even after the stock market has been wiped out, the dollar lost much of the rest of its value (its already down 95% since 1913), etc.

These metals are a way to "check out" some of your wealth from "the system" which I believe has been engineered to destroy it.

Thats the main appeal, although you can MAKE MUH GAINZ on it if you're smart about it. But thats not why most of us have it.

>>1839150
>We are just larping waiting for the apocalypse in the meantime.
I couldn't have said that better myself

>>1839150
Well you presumably wouldn't have to pay for it since you purchased it in dollars previous to the collapse. Paying your obligations in metals during an economic collapse would be possible I guess but you'd still have to convert them to dollars first and if shit gets Zimbabwe-tier nobody is going to have that many dollars. If this is just LARPing I guess I understand.

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The new queen's beast silver and gold coins are out on JM Bullion's site, I thought they were only doing 1 a year. Guess maybe they stepped up the schedule in the hopes of getting all 10 out while old Lizzy is still with us.

Very cool design, as with the others. Definitely adding this one to the collection, I'll probably build a display case for them once all 10 are out.

Thinking of buying a roll of BU Morgans but the markup is insane. Are they easy to resell if needed?

>>1839171
>Well you presumably wouldn't have to pay for it since you purchased it in dollars previous to the collapse.
"True wealth is your time, but we trade away moments of our lives - hour by hour, day by day, year by year - for numbers that somebody printed on a piece of paper, or just typed into a computer. Now those numbers represent our blood, sweat, tears, labor, ideas, and talent."

We've paid for it.

>>1839171
It is smart to be stocked up and prepared for any shtf scenario. My comment would be for those who hadn't, or when you run out of supplies and need to restock.
You're right, it would be tough to sell large amounts of silver in a collapse. It's much smarter to buy 1 oz. or smaller pieces for such a case.
It's crazy over in Zimbabwe too. They no longer accept currency of the nation so now people are forced to the river to try and scrounge for gold, paying at least 4x over the regular price for necessities like bread.
>>1839241
Yes, they are treated like any silver commodity and they retain the markup that you initially pay for it.

>>1839275
>they retain the markup that you initially pay for it.
What do you mean?

>>1839294
Currently, silver is bidding for $17.85 an ounce. If you bought a minted coin that had a premium of say $2 on the coin, you are now paying $19.85 for a BU Morgan. Even if the price of silver goes up or down, you can still argue to the next buyer that they'll be paying that $2 premium on it.

>>1839303
Oh I see. That's interesting.

>>1839334
It's only fair, you did pay extra for the coin and all. Another thing about minted coins is that people can trust them. I have sunshine mint rounds that could be questioned because they came from an independent company. If you use a Silver Eagle, Philharmonic or Britannia, then it'll be easier to pawn off because these are trusted sources.

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>>1839189

>>1829537
I'll add a couple more for USA anons:
goldeneaglecoin.com
providentmetals.com

if you're in canada, kitco's probably the way to go, but you don't have as much of a selection (but good prices)

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Just got these At 19.20 a coin

>>1839164
I agree with this anon.

To give a recent example, look at Venezuela.

2010:
0.4651 USD = 1 VEF (Venezuelan Bolivar)

Current black market rate is over 1000 Bolivar to the US dollar

Average monthly wage is 2010 was 1881.49. 1oz could be had for 2350ish at the start of 2010.

Current official price for 1oz is 12,224.55 bolivars. If he sold the same oz for US dollars then converted the USD on the black market he would have over 1.2 million bolivars

There are finally commercials on the television advertising for buying silver bullion, which through my armchair analysis makes me believe that the price of silver is about to go even lower. It's dropped $.27 already today.

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>>1840407
Then buy more silver/gold. It always rebounds.

>>1839972
You don't understand silver if you are focusing on a up or down on of less than a dollar you should buy it a twice the price

Is ebay a trusty site to purchase gold/silver?

>>1841001
Only if you like being ripped off :(

Bro, pretty much every fake gold/silver item I've seen online has originated from eBay. I would ONLY buy off that site from vendors like APMEX and JMB, but I think things are cheaper on their sites than on their ebay sites.

The other thing is you pay 3-5% more versus writing a check and mailing it for things paid via credit card or paypal. I know this doesnt sound like much, but even if you only buy $400 worth of metal, thats like $12-$20 just by itself. That could buy you another ounce of silver or a meal or something.

So are precious metals really that good of a hedge against inflation/deflation? It seems like for several years it's been performing rather badly. Is it really worth it to lose every year, potentially for several years to come, just to hope to cash out next time the markets go to shit? It almost feels like it'd be better to just invest that same amount in normal equity, get much higher returns (on average), and then just have to take a hit and wait a few years for my portfolio's value to return to normal.

>>1841095
It performs badly because jp morgan and a cabal of other banks are driving the price down by short selling paper futures and brainwashing the masses into the fiat system. look at the data the just did the biggest short sell in history days ago. they crash the price with computer paper which make physical metal cheaper then buy it up.

>>1841095
Well, the common recommendation is to keep gold under 10% of your portfolio, so it's not that big of a loss in the first place.

I see it more as having a high-valued asset available at all times. If you ever need a larger amount of money amidst a crisis on the stock market, liquidating part of your finanical assets is really going to hurt. Having a bit of gold available is a nice hedge in this situation.

>precious metals [...] hope to cash out next time the markets go to shit?
>equity [...] take a hit and wait a few years
Why treat them differently? Hold both long-term.

>that good of a hedge against inflation/deflation
decent but used to be better before paper-gold took over the charts/not at all

>>1841126
What about investing in gold mining companies rather than gold itself? Is that a good way to get some of the hedging benefits of gold without incurring as much of the constant losses? In my case I also have a relatively small portfolio, so physical gold as well as commodities futures (and their insanely high commission) is much more difficult to acquire than an ETF tracking a precious metals index, for example.

Or would doing that simply defeat the purpose of having a physical commodity rather than equity?

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>>1839867
never really liked that symbol much, Athena had other emblems than the owl that were cooler like the corinthian helm, so why did that one stick?

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>>1841095
You're completely right and its why I've never gone hardcore into stacking, I mainly just like to buy some silver coins occasionally as a collection type thing if I think they look cool, and I like antiquities so in addition to the occasional modern one I'll pick up because I like the design I also have coins that are hundreds or even thousands of years old which even if they're not particularly valuable is still cool.

The idea of having physical treasure is kinda nice to me as well even if its not particularly rational, its the same as owning property, its a real physical asset. I keep my coins in a small treasure chest in my room too lol.

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>>1841189
IDK its a copy of this coin

>>1841095
Totally.

The Silver I bought was between $15-$17 ounce, I could sell almost any of it today for a profit. Even if I'd bought for $18-$20 an ounce, I could sell for my money back, since theres been a number of times we've crossed $20 mark since I bought.

This is if I could plan ahead on selling it... If there was an emergency expense I could sell it today for $17.75 and lose VERY little.

Totally worth it IMHO, especially if you're holding long term. I'm hoping to keep mine until I retire.

Also, in recent history the dollar has lost 40% of its value, and silver isnt down 40%. In fact, at one point it was at its highest point in history.

Silver/Gold/Platinum are GREAT investments, for the long haul.

>>1837026
I'm sorry I must have replied to you before by mistake when I meant to reply to another anon. To answer your question, it's been my experience that jewelers will buy any PM that has it's purity and weight stamped on the product itself for slightly below spot. If you have coins or rounds that have numismatic value save them for the coin shop, but anything you're looking to sell at spot price is fair game for the jewelers.

>>1841095
You hold a percentage, usually 10-20%, for as long as many years as you can.

Its not a preforming asset
Its a store of wealth for when you need it

Even if the bank explodes, electric become un-invented and ants rule the earth, someone will trade you for that gold.

>>1841122
What exactly happened?

>>1841527
Back in the 70s, Nixon in a "never ever done in multiple millenia" move took the US off the gold standard. It became backed by petrol and forced the world to operate under the US dollar. Now, you have a global fiat currency backed by the thought that oil will always do well. It won't ;)
100% of fiat currencies fail, now we don't have a safety net.

>>1841577
>the global economy is going to collapse and all currencty worldwide ill become worthless
>anyone who didn't hoard gold will lose their life savings overnight no matter how large their portfolio
>and when it does I'll be waiting to say I told you so
>any day now
>...any day now
>......any day now

>>1841609
:)
Don't say I didn't warn you.

>>1841623
ok, you got me with that one

>>1841577
I was asking about the large silver sell off. I knew before about the removal of the gold standard but that bit about petrol is interesting.

>>1841630
You are right though. I think we've come to a point where it is 'too big to fail'. There'll be a worldwide recession and I'm hoping that the US stays on top of it like what happened back in '08. A crash with Trump in the presidency is now unlikely.
I'm stocking up on silver as a hedge, or insurance. I can always rely on it as a backup if I have a really bad day.
In this age of technology, our financial system is evolving to hopefully something sustainable.
Ultimately, I'd like our economy to run like it did in Nazi Germany where the country was valued by the labor of the people.

>>1841650
>I'd like our economy to run like it did in Nazi Germany
you mean go to war and steal everything not nailed down to pay for your unsustainably huge armed forces?

>>1841662
I'm talking about from 1933-1940 where they were the wealthiest country on the planet. Y'know, before Poland and England decided to go to war with them. It does help that they had the best military too and could say piss off to the WWII reperations. Oh the things you can do with National banks.
>>1841639
Here's the closest thing I can find on the topic
Silver Is Collapsing On Massive Volume | Zero Hedge http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-02/silver-collapsing-massive-volume

>>1841669
you mean the things you can do when you spend 70% of your GDP on the military financed entirely through high interest loans that you default on by declaring war, then financed by extensively looting the countries you conquer? You may need to brush up on your history a bit friend.

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>>1841445

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GUYS, do we officially think prices are going UP or DOWN around the 15th?

Should an anon wait to buy a little more metal?

>>1841678
>you mean the things you can do when you spend 70% of your GDP on the military financed entirely through high interest loans that you default on by declaring war, then financed by extensively looting the countries you conquer?
Wait - we're still talking about Nazi Germany, right?

Not modern America...right?

>>1841650
I think President Trump wants to end the feds manipulation of the market which at first will be very chaotic.

Seriously goys, is a fed interest rate change gonna tank our metals?

>>1842400
That would be tough

Given how the democrats are endlessly plugging baseless smear stories and he keeps taking the bait by lashing out

>>1844015
Yes, their appeal will drop lowing the price. A good time to buy if you are holding out for the next decade

>>1844089
I thought there was a bill introduced to audit the fed. Hopefully something happens with that.
Also, waiting until the 15th to make my next silver purchase. Hoping to pick up a kilo Lunar coin for Year of the Rooster.

>>1844405
thatll never hapen, anon

Is there any sort of sticky or FAQ on getting started in investing in precious metals?

>>1846185
Watch all of Mike Maloney's videos online. It'll give you an idea of how precious metals are used.

>>1846185
>>1846235
No FAQ as of now since this General is fresh. As it goes on, there'll be more information for people to access that should be able to answer people's questions.

>>1846241
Thanks man I'll check out those vids and start hunting around.

>>1846235
I bought his book a while ago on a whim, before I was even interested in stalking and before I knew who he was. Never got around to reading it. Is it good?

>>1846383
Stacking is what I clearly meant kek

>>1846383
My copy is in the mail. I bought it because of the videos. I believe his Hidden Secrets of Money series is heavily based off of the text.

>>1833319
Why was buying “some ugly ass genaric secondary market rounds” a “retard”-ed move?

I buy generic, i’m just curious. maybe i’m doing something wrong

>>1846531
The stupid part was buying them for $19.80, I love buying them, as long as theyre cheap lol. It was right before the election, and I was expecting turmoil which would keep prices (way) up... I suck at predicting the future

>>1833319
I think mexican libertad have a nicer ping..they have about the same size but i really was amazed about the libertad I got...

>>1829119
any suggestions of where to buy in uk?
no stacks here, looking to start up

>>1846778
I'm browsing uk based sites now, some seem great, others not so much —I'm not looking to buy in bulk right now, just 1 or 2oz in, maybe a bar and a coin
any pointers for someone looking to start small would be appreciated

>>1846835
Hatton garden metals

>>1846900
>Hatton garden metals
aint gorra lorra stock in today have they

i ended up going with Atkinsons, may still grab another oz from elsewhere though

thanks for suggestion but they don't have anything in my size sadly

>>1830941
I bought a 100 ounce from sunshine, it didn't come with a decoder though. Do I have to get that plastic piece of shit separately?

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Fucking ouch. My mum was kind enough to start my new gold hobby/interest in stacking, even though all she could afford was a 1g teeny tiny bar. But Royal Mint website sells way over spot. Something like £52 for the 1g, when spot was £41 or something.

How can you buy safely and know what you are getting is legit without paying a 5th on top over spot because you wanted that safety?

I get that it's not an investment so much as a way to keep my finances safe and at hand, but fuck, I'm not particularly well off and extra on top is a heavy bite out of my savings.

>>1847004
Yes, it's ~$18USD
http://www.jmbullion.com/sunshine-minting-decoder-lens/

>>1847192
I'm asking myself the same question

After thinking on it all day; to turn stacking into investing, keep an eye on the charts, be sure to buy the dips so you aren't paying out every angle of your arse, and hold for gold, hand it to down to the brood once you're dead n cold

>>1847192
>buying 1 gram of gold
please don't do that.

>>1847831

It was just a birthday gift to start me off. That said, unless I buy yearly, I can only move up to coins. I'm not a wealthy or even decently earning man, I just want to save what I can save securely and in my own pocket so to speak.

I would like advice on how to do so without paying a fifth extra on spot, however. Royal Mint is obviously a safe place, but the price of that safety stings.

>>1847192
two strategies:
a. save until you can buy a decent size (1 oz), even if it takes 6 or 9 months.
b. buy silver instead of gold


a. still applies to b. too if you're not too impatient

>>1849197
There are costs to manufacture the gold, minting, packaging etc. The smaller the amount you buy, the bigger the premium you'll have to pay.

>>1849941
My way was to lurk and learn,I'm sure there are forums full of info of where to buy,also learn how to inspect coins and shit,basically I go by weight,a magnet and the sound plus I carry an original I bought at jewellery I trust,then I went into 2nd hand forums and start buying old silver rounds that have the least premium since are widely circulated (our equivalent of junk silver)from people therby avoiding taxes and shit,since most jewelleris and buy gold shops are cheap fucks that offer 4 euros for a silver coin that the wheight spot price of 6 euros,when I offer 5 euros people are happy,also I made myself quite a good reputation on some second hand forums by always being super nice,offering prices below spot but over what shops offer,and if I see the owner is a coin weebo I usually bring them presents like japanese coins,chinese,Serbian. .. shit coins I get from my trips,that way we all are happy,coin collectors get new adds to their collection,I get cheap silver they write great reviews,give me great prices are and show me other cheap dealers,etc etc...so im regularly buying silver at underspot in europe,without the 21%tax (bad thing is I'm still a wage cuck so I can only buy every now and then but i have quite a growing stack for a good price)

If your about gold...same thing and being a brit bong? I recomend sovereigns,they have little premium,are widely circulated and known and come in affordable size plus I'm guessing in brit bong bong land are cheaper?

>>1829469
Yes you can buy VAT free silver from estonia. You have to buy a minimum of 20 coins though but you save so much money.
Celticgold.eu

>>1829568
Shipping was like £20 for me....

how do all these big firms get away with suppressing prices of precious metals?

>>1850518
About 10 organizations own ~88% of the silver in the world. They can just throw pieces of paper around influencing the price however they want.

Heres to a good buying week!

>>1852390
Wednesday's looking like a good day to stack up a bit. Slowly letting go of my securities, trying to close the gap between losses and hopefully a couple gains.

>My state charges a 6% tax on precious metals
>I can literally drive 20-30 minutes across state lines to buy them at no sales or additional tax

I don't get why my state engages in such stupid ass policy making. If it were something like 1% I wouldn't bother, but 6% drives out more business than it makes in tax revenue.

>>1853365
Ouch, as corrupt as my state is, thankfully they have no sales tax on precious metals.
Ron Paul, blessed be his name, is talking to Arizona lawmakers about abolishing the capital gains tax on gold coins. It boggles my mind that the government can get away with taxing the exchange of currency for actual money and have the gaul to try and tax the fluctuation of its price afterwards.

>>1853365
what state? i’m in ny and haven’t experienced said “tax” yet

>>1853365
just googled it. buy online yo.

jm bullion or apmex.

jm bullion is out of state and doesn’t have to charge sales tax

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Newest additions to my big boi stack

>>1837043
Yeah man, post pics. I collect pre WWII silver coins from all over and maybe I can tell you something about some of them but in any case I'm just curious. Hope you got a great deal.

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>>1854227
Also got this lot of 14th century german wittens at 50% of the auction house's estimate. I'm adding the center one to my collection and slowly selling the rest off at a markup.

Just made my largest precious metals purchases yet.

17 kilos of silver are on their way...curious to see how it will be shipped.

>>1854791
Big order and a good time to buy. I think from here we'll see silver go up for a couple of months then have another dip. After that, it could possibly go to the moon.
That poor mailman of yours is gonna have some back problems after lugging your order to you.

>>1854810
Agreed. It was a great deal on APMEX, couldn’t wait ’til Wednesday.

1 Kilo bars on sale for only $0.49 over spot! I think they only have 3 or 4 left though.

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>>1854791
DAMNIT ANON I WAS GONNA BUY THOSE

I just got the final two :/

Oh well, that's what I get for waiting. Congrats on your new addition!

Honestly guys, I think those niggas are CLEARING HOUSE because they KNOW prices are gonna drop on Wednesday. Therefore, they want stuff sold NOW for a higher price rather than then for a lower one. Plus, they want us to blow our load now, before the drop hits.

Oh well, they'll have another good sale rolling out here soon I'm sure.

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>>1830139
>be 23 next month
Late to the game,yet found I bought mum and gmum(rip) a bit of neck bling back when I was way younger($320~) and I had forgot from up till abit ago.

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>>1829663
>some Estonian dealer

>>1854999
>23
>Late to the game.

Mate, try being 29. Reality is it's never too late to start stacking, unless you are dead. Just make sure your family know you at least have it (and if you are wheelchair bound, keep away from stairs) and have it in a will to go to a good cause otherwise.

There is no such thing as late to the game, bro. You might get hit by a truck tommorow, or you might live to over a hundred. There is literally no way of knowing.

>>1854246
I'll post some when I get out of work if the thread is still up.

>>1854227
>>1854252
Those are incredibly cool. I wish stuff like that would show up where I live.

>>1855234
Same

Any tips for finding coins like that?

>>1855234
>>1855393
Mid to high end auction houses in or near central europe. I use one in Denmark that auctions around 400 coin lots every 2 weeks and shipping to my country is fast and cheap.

I'm going to try some baltic auctions soon and see if I can find even better deals. Gonna need a good translation addon.

>>1855393
>>1855234
>>1855416
A few tips if you want to try this:
1) auction estimates are done by experts and are generally pretty honest and conservative re: real current market value. If you are going to bid near or above full estimate you should still only do it if you have a solid flipping plan for it, for instance importing coins back to origin country and profit from the premium given there.
2) Avoid big auctions obviously. Avoid ebay like sites where anyone can upload, you'll be demotivated by the amount of crap you have to wade through.
3) Don't buy their national coins, their own people will pay market value on those coins.
4) Mixed lots is where you get the best deals because of lack of competition (most buyers want specific items for specific collections).
5) Stay on top of commission (generally 20% of hammer price) and exchange rates

You can get high end coins for pocket change if you're patient.

>>1855416
Ah if only I was in Europe, then.

>>1855505
I recall an article from an american coin dealer who said that if you go to the big coin shows over there, they have a section for european dealers where they have boxes full of really old european coins. Wouldn't be surprised if you can get even better deals than us.

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Here's the ~half of my stack I've been able to match with coin cases (I buy silver coins and used cases in bulk and match them up). Excuse the mess. For size reference, the PCGS cases in the center are Morgans.

>>1855545
I'll have to look into this then

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>>1829980

>gold
>not money

>>1832789

Been buying silver for a few years, some of it is Sunshine and A-Mark rounds/bars I got for 79 cents over spot at most, including a 10 ounce Sunshine bar that I paid spot price for, but the majority is Canadian Maple Leafs/Cougars, Australian Kangaroos, 12 Silver Eagles, and my favorites, Britannias. Got all of them on sale for $1.49-$2.09 over spot.

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>tfw want to get into this but don't know anything about it and couldn't afford it
Is it really worth it?
what is the point of buying silver and gold? will it rise in price tremendously to give a massive profit?
Can anyone please give some legit advice on this? Is there at least a reliable place that gives reliable advice?

>>1856395
historically gold has neither risen nor dropped in real value. So it's a hedge against inflation.

historically silver has consistently gone down in purchasing power. So it's neither an investment or a reliable hedge against inflation. It's a vehicle for short-term speculation.

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>>1856402
>historically gold has neither risen nor dropped in real value. So it's a hedge against inflation.
so it's like a bank? can you reliably sell the gold to get the same amount of money disregarding inflation?
>historically silver has consistently gone down in purchasing power. So it's neither an investment or a reliable hedge against inflation. It's a vehicle for short-term speculation.
so if the purchasing power of it constantly falls, why purchase it in the first place, even if it is for short-term speculation, the price of it won't rise, right?

>>1855628
Nice,I've only 236 100 pesetas (half ounce pure silver spanish coin 80% silver 20%copper)and some 39 .999fine silver ounces,pesetas are readily available and i pay spot or underspot,so it's a win win since I pay more than shops and i get a 24%off.
21%taxes plus 3%at least shop margin...
The fine silver rounds I got where cheap but i still prefer my cheap sturdy 100 pesetas.

Also have 112 grams of gold in a lingot a krugerrand 2 sovereigns and 3 dutch 10 guldens

It's a small stack but i only started recently,anyways I'm out of funds so I can't make it bigger but i finished it just in time for the big euro roller coaster that starts with the Dutch elections!

>>1856409
>can you reliably sell the gold to get the same amount of money disregarding inflation?
yes. gold is fairly easy to sell. You may lose a couple percentage points buying and selling, but the price often tracks a couple percentage points above or below inflation so your loss or gain is within the margin of error.
>the price of it won't rise, right?
just because something goes down long-term doesn't mean it won't go up short-term. Silver has some large ups and downs and you can make money off that. The overall trend is down though. You don't want to just buy silver and sit on it for 100 years.

>>1856460
u wot m8

I'm predicting this to be the first of two dips over the next few months. Then it'll just keep increasing. Silver has had radical increases in short periods of time. Use it as a hedge, not an investment. There's always a reason to have silver around. Maybe an ounce of gold too just in case.

>>1839275

I have a bag of 40% Silver Kennedy Half-Dollars, would those be accepted as payment in a scenario where I had to buy just a few things? Or would their lower silver content and obscurity make them unappealing? I wanted some tiny measures of silver for when a whole ounce would be too much.

They were the cheapest junk silver I could find at 70 or 80 odd cents over spot, while all the 90% junk silver was $3-$5 over spot, which was ridiculous to me since that shit was already been mined and minted before getting to the sellers like JMB and Provident.

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>>1839144

We're not talking about your Madwalking Deadmax apocalypse fantasy.

We're talking about retaining and gaining purchasing power in a market crash. You should already have at least a one month store of food and a few firearms which you know how to use (and 1,000 rounds for each), just on principle.

However, metals would still have their use in a total collapse scenario.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3LdNxV0yPM

>>1857998
>I wanted some tiny measures of silver for when a whole ounce would be too much.
They sell fractional silver, anon. I had just last year mulled over the idea of buying a roll of 1/10ozt pieces and anonymously dropping them one-by-one into and along the nearby creek in order to bring attention to silver and coin collecting in general. I decided against it and bought a couple of 10ozt bars for the stack instead.

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>>1858827

They do sell fractional silver...at retarded premiums. Fuck that combi-bar shit.

>I had just last year mulled over the idea of buying a roll of 1/10ozt pieces and anonymously dropping them one-by-one into and along the nearby creek in order to bring attention to silver and coin collecting in general

That's fuckin retarded.

In the age of the internet, there's no reason to be ignorant. If they don't know by now, fuck them. Anyone who doesn't have silver and gold deserves to get fucked in the next crash. Saving the dumb form the consequences of their actions is part of how we got into this mess.

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Anyone know why dealers like apmex and JMB refuse to price match? I'm looking at about an $11,000 purchase and neither will drop $100 to match another online seller, ON THE SAME EXACT PRODUCT.

Just seems odd to me.

>>1858952
Did you miss my last sentence where
>I decided against it and bought a couple of 10ozt bars for the stack instead.
?

>>1859023

No, I read the whole thing. The fact you even considered it, and thought that it would get people into stacking, is fuckin retarded.

Had my order arrive today of an 20 pc. roll of Philharmonics. Smaller than I thought they would be, though thicker than my sunshine rounds.
>>1859003
I would think that different distributors have varying deals with the mints. Or they're banking on people not checking all the prices around.
>>1859084
rude

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>>1859088

>>1859088
Fawk dude, I could go to target for a $21 toaster, show them that walmart sells it for $19.99 and get the difference plus 10% extra back.

I dont expect any extra on this, but as someone who worked retail I cant understand why they'd say "lol no" and watch an $11k sale go to one of their main competitors.

Their loss tho, I guess

*shrug*

>>1859102
Mike Maloney's goldsilver.com has a price match guarantee if you're interested in looking at that.

>>1859084
Fair enough

>>1859140
I enjoy his videos and would gladly do business with him... But he is SOOOOOO much higher than literally ANY other store I've seen.

I found a kilo of silver (random item for comparison) for $576 on SD... Mike's site is $596 on the SAME EXACT THING!

Oh well. His business plan is to scare noobs into buying metals, from the site he conveniently owns/advertises. They're new to the market, and he doesnt *totally* take advantage of them... Just charges a little more then they'd pay, if they shopped around some more.

I'm a little jealous I didnt think of it myself...

>>1859232
Yeah, he's definitely a guy peddling a product. His saving grace is that he supposedly puts it all back in to his website and videos to educate people.
Depending on what I'm looking for is what site I'll use which has the best prices. I'm currently looking at Gainesville for Year of the Rooster rounds which are only charging $1.07 over spot, which I find cheap for a non-generic round.
I'm still on the hunt for the cheapest Lunar Rooster from the Perth mint. Wanted to buy a kilo version for the glamour of it.

really sucks in the UK having to spend £9-10+ PLUS over spot, unless you bulk by, at which point you're looking at £2-5 OS

>>1858026

Agree with this anon. See the modern Venezuela example above:

>>1839972

Got my shopping cart all set and ready, just waiting for the interest rate hike to hit the button. Hopefully can shed off ~$100 or so.

>>1861161
any word on what time FOMC will announce the interest rate hike? some time today, but when??

>>1861214
2PM EST
Less than an hour away

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Interest rate hike was announced at 2pm.

Silver spot price up $0.20 since 2pm.

>>1861547
scratch that. it’s up $0.31 now

>>1861824
Silver goes between 16 and 20 like a jojo for no apparent reason, this is nothing desu,

>>1829847
Man don't Ryanair go to Estonia? Time for a weekend holiday methinks

Looks like gold is really jumping up today.

>>1863102
Today the eye of sauron is focused on holland so of course the gold and silver tries to go to market,it's like a helium ballon underwater,but someone tries to keep it down,one day they'll loose control and the price will skyrocket

>>1861161
>interest rate hike
PMs go up

This algo shit is retarded