Automation

>>1662388
As Marx pointed out, Capitalism sows the seeds of its own destruction!

>>1662388
Already half of American adults dont work. Where have you been. Also look at Spain, Greece, etc. We are in a post labor society.

>>1662391
You do understand that that's complete bullshit right? All these statistics count high school and college students as unemployed, of course they're going to start working once they graduate, even if it's from their useless fields.

>>1662390
This. We're observing increasing amounts of financial instability due to automation and its unchecked repercussions, e.g. not enough capital in the hands of consumers.

>>1662396
>All these statistics count high school and college students as unemployed
they also count the retired.

but even if we assume students and the retired shouldn't be working, lack of employment in the US jumped in '08 and never recovered. This may be the new normal: 1/3 of Americans not finding work. Ever.

>>1662398
Now all we have to do is cut wellfare

>>1662404
so we all say until we need it.

you've now got a better than 30% chance of going on welfare.

>>1662407
if I had to pay 15% tax instead of 40% I would be happy to not have that security, I would either get a private insurance or save more money.

>>1662409
nobody is going to disagree with you.

the only thing I'd say is more than 20% of your taxes go to killing muslims in the middle east.

before I'd complain about supporting poor bastards in the US I'd complain about killing worthless desert bastards for muh oil.

>>1662413
I totally agree, taxation is a crime, the government obviously does not operate for the good of the people but rather for the good of themselves.

>>1662416
don't try to convert me, I don't give any value to that green paper.

making money is a game, it shouldn't be taken seriously ever. I have to pay half of it back? who cares, it's the rules of the game.
If you need more make more.

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>>1662388
>How will people buy shit if they don't have jobs?

We'll just make robots to buy them instead. An artificially intelligent consumer is still more predictable and obediant than a human consumer

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How can humans even compete?

>>1662416
Oh yeah. You better don't call the tax-funded police when me and my gang bust down your door and rape your wife and eat all your hot dogs boyo.

You better hope some billionaires band together to keep our boarders safe.

You better call the A-Team when the russian state is invading your sorry country that doesn't have military or diplomats because "Tuaxes wa thefts becuase they taike all my mooneys and it is my mooney"

>>1662388
Post-scarcity is near boys, just have to hold out a little longer.

>>1662388
Yeah man fucking steam engines taking away all those manufacturing jobs.

Fucking Horses taking away all those plowing jobs.

Fucking agriculture making all hunting jobs obsolete

>>1662388
Why will people need money if everything's automatic?

Once you understand that, you'll understand where the jobs will be.

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>>1662390
>Marx
Kek

>>1662470
The elites would rather just let the unemployed die out. While labor and the average worker may be obsolete, resources are still finite.

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>Slavery is dumb as fuck. How will people buy shit if they don't have jobs?

>>1662388
>not already owning shares of Alphabet Inc. to fund your jobless future

>>1662396
nah I've graduated 3 months ago and haven't worked, no plans to do so
t. Spain

>>1662388

Do you even Creative Destruction?

There is actually a good example of this in the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory movie.

Charlie's father was working at the toothpaste factory by tediously and repetitively screwing the lids of the dough tubes into a work belt in the purest style of Fordism; "He worked long hours and paid him a pittance." He was fired because "increased sales of candy led to an increase in tooth decay, which led to an increase in toothpaste sales. With the proceeds, the factory decided to modernize and disregarded the job of Charlie's father "by installing a robotic arm that screwed the covers faster and automatically.

So far what any normal movie would denounce. But, surprisingly, there is one last scene that shows how "Charlie's father was given a better job at the factory by repairing the machine he had replaced."

>>1662455

But isn't automation different? Surely it takes more than it gives in regards to jobs.

I think automation is a good idea. Let the goyim suffer. 6 trillion Jewwws died in the Holocaust

>>1663118
This. Machines need maintenance.
/thread

>>1662388
labor will move to other areas.

simple as that.

>>1663744
>>1663118
That will only account for a small number of skilled workers. Not every blue collar labourer will be able to become a robot mechanic. Not even close.

>>1662388
Capitalism will eventually dissolve and we will live in some kind of socialist-esque society where machines do all the human jobs. This means we will have more time to make rapid advancements in science, technology, and medicine, and then we'll live in a Star Trek utopia

Maybe we should privatize education and just give every parent an untaxable account with preloaded money so they can pick the school of their choice

Then maybe we'll start teaching our future for the future (like how to build robots that automate) instead of standardized bullshit

>>1662450
s t r a w m a n
Anon was only suggesting that taxes could be used a lot more efficiently if greed was more towards the out of the way zone

>>1662470
You mean when even the whole process of building automata is automated?
Hard to imagine what "jobs" would mean then

Social Darwinism means those people just die off.

>>1662388
They sell it to rich people, retard.

>>1662660
that was a recurrent problem often referenced by serious historians.

Slavery distorting the job market for poor freedmen was one of the pillars upon which the populares "party" stood during the late republic civil war.
Caesar, even though born patrician fancied himself a man of the people. He stood for the populares.

Guess what, him and his adopted son Octavian absolutely ravaged the conservatives and did it while being extremely popular in the eyes of the populace. They turned the republic into a principate supporting ideas like these and in many ways they were right.

The inability for the conservatives of the late republic to instill some fairness into the system literally led to their downfall and the collapse of the republic. It then became a custom to seize the property of the wealthy members of the opposition in order to pay for the legions you raised in order to seize powah.

The whole "the people laid off by automaton are free to find new professions and jobs" is retarded because nothing in our system or our mentalities allows a 45 year old trucker to go back to college and then get a job.

Our education system is yet another elitist system of distributing prestige, network and authority under the pretense of knowledge.

Doesn't it shock people that the best colleges and universities are ranked using criterias such as salary of grads, employment figures, number of nobel laureates and so forth instead of a system that accounts for the level and skills at entry and compares at the end of the diploma.

>>1662511
Even if that's what the elites want, getting their way requires the masses to vote for the kinds of politicians who support that.

>>1663832
Anything you need money for, there's either a job directly associated with it, or a tax (or both). Otherwise you wouldn't need money.

Taxes fund the government, which can employ a lot of people. Although with a fiat currency the funding process isn't quite as straightforward as people think. The government can print all the money it needs, but still needs taxes in order to give value to that currency.

>>1662388
Apocalypse scenario: A large swath of humanity dies as the elite bask in their wealth. Not too bad, as humanity survives. Post-scarcity society achieved after the death of billions

Utopia scenario: Post-scarcity achieved before the death of billions and with little violence

Likely scenario: Violence occurs and large numbers of people die as our economy shifts to post-scarcity

Almost no downside for the human species as a whole

There is no automation happening. It's liberal propaganda to get you to vote for more government expansion under the guise of welfare.

You cant even name any mass automation that is currently leading to mass poverty.

>muh self driving cars that are never going to be consumer viable in the next 20 years
>muh mcdicks registers that no one will use after Tyrone chimps out on it.
>muh other nonexistent boogeyman and strawman

>>1662388

Not gonna read this thread but here's the simplest answer I can give:

Most people view the world in an agrarian state (ie the economy is run off agriculture). This is because this is the simplest way of viewing the extremely complex economy we live in today. Also, a lot of Greek philosophy was built when the world really was in an agrarian economic state so people are used to thinking this way.

Your logic makes sense in the agrarian world, because that world is devoid of "value add". Example: An apple is only worth what an apple is worth, nothing you can do will increase or decrease its value. Thus, in this world if a robot takes over your job of making/growing apples, there is a definite amount of jobs (or job, I guess) and income lost.

THIS IS NOT HOW THE REAL WORLD WORKS.

In actual practice, automation decreases worthless non-value add tasks, like digging up minerals or putting piece A into piece B. This streamlined process reduces costs and lowers the price of final products (no, corporations aren't hurr durr so evil steal all moneies that they get from automation, you are literally braindead if you were about to say that). The lower final price of the good/service that has been automated increases the purchasing power of everyone who buys the product. The increased purchasing power of the economy as a whole due to those lower prices allows them to spend money elsewhere -- creating opportunities (jobs) there.

I don't get this whole movement of saving worthless jobs for the sake of having them. Why should we all pay higher prices for goods just to support some redneck who didn't want to go to school?

>>1664050
>The whole "the people laid off by automaton are free to find new professions and jobs" is retarded because nothing in our system or our mentalities allows a 45 year old trucker to go back to college and then get a job.

I'm pretty sure you've never been to college or been overseas. The USA has some of the most accessible schooling in the entire world. So many people don't even have a chance to go to high school no matter how hard they study and you're complaining when we have government subsidized community college that literally anyone can sign up to go to with 30% of your grade being participation.

I myself went back to school, it was easy and half my classmates were over 30 in the community college. Plenty of mom's and war vets although I'm sure you will just stick your head in the sand and ignore this post

>>1664938
I think automation is a good thing. My post had that negative tone because I was trying to beat my girlfriend in an argument.

>>1664938
I agree with your post.

Consider the fact that the purchasing power increase is entirely captured by the robot manufacturers and the people who own them.

The employee losing his job might not be able to afford to wait until being trained again and find a new job. The whole liberating people from low skill activities will create new professions and new jobs is a non sequitur.

It's possible.
It's desirable.
It's just not a guarantee.

And that scares people who depend on those jobs to pay for their sister's chemo treatment, pay for their son's tuiton or put food on the table.

The thing is automaton is coming. Inexorably so. And we don't really know how the people laid off will be able to adjust. Saying the people pocketing the savings in productivity will create new jobs with this wealth is bad trickle down economics again.

And Universal basic income could fix the problem but is simply too expensive.

>>1664938
>redneck who didn't want to go to school?
rednecks can't learn complex tasks

so you either give them granted basic income or they will cause chaos

your job will eventually get automated too, i dont care if it takes 50 or 1000 years, so deal with it.

>>1665593
>And Universal basic income could fix the problem

How would that fix anything?

>>1662437
Underrated post.

Niggers at the tine of the industrial revolution claimed that steam power would end the labor force.

Nothing changed.

Nothing will now from robots. The labor force simply adjusted

they will surrender their buttholes i heard

>>1666706
you're dumb. we're approaching the point where AI will soon surpass human intelligence, therefore anything we can do can be done much cheaper, much faster, and much better by machines.

>>1664938
You're passing that the automation will push all competitors costs downward. If automation is exceptionally complex, or retained by a single competitor in an industry, they'll have no pressure to decrease their prices while laying off workers.

>>1666709
>if AI is so smart, how come I can solve the CAPTCHA for this text easy as pie? Yet no AI can come close??

>post video of robots playing soccer and missing the ball and falling over

automation has nothing to do with jobs or the economy.

automation actually adds jobs if you look at the number of companies that manufacture and put together robotic arms and machines, the engineers,the techs,the supervisors etc.
just because a machine is doing alot of work it don't mean people are out of work. you are all literally been memes by politicians and the television trying to sell you some post-apocalyptic news.

however, the economy is getting worse, jobs market is getting worse. government isn't smart enough on how going about getting investors to invest in the right businesses and making the right moves.
most of the world's capital is stuck and won't circulate back to the economy unless the government takes care of things.

>>1662452
is it though

>>1662388

What is gonna happen is that 90% of the population will revolt... but the rich will kill them all thanks to their fully automated robot armies.

>tfw it will take billions of dollars and years to fully automate the industry I work in that is already 90% automated. Would take years for government agencies like the FDA and EPA to even consider it because they need "muh tests and results" and other gay shit. Not to mention the current machinery we use is from the 70s and just retrofitted with modern controls. It would take a few hundred thousand to replace 1 line. Multiply that by 10-20+ lines a factory by thousands of factories. Yet unemployed NEETs and tech bloggers think it's just around the corner because the technology is there.

>>1662388
Arent 99 percent of all manufacturing jobs in China already? Why would you care if your computer mouse is made by a chink for a dollar a day with antisuicide nets hanging outside the window or by a machine for the cost of electricity and maintanance? The west is largely post industrial and please correct me if I am wrong.