Explain Obamacare

Individuals are now mandated to purchase health insurance from private health care insurance companies if they already don't have insurance provided to them through their job, Medicare, military, school, or whatever.
This is called the individual mandate.

This has caused the price of healthcare insurance premiums (the money you pay to the private healthcare insurance companies) to go up since the demand suddenly increased due to the individual mandate, but the supply remained more or less the same.

More importantly, Obamacare refuses to address the elephant in the room: the exorbitant cost of actual healthcare costs in the United States (hospital visits, doctor visits, surgery, medicine, etc.)

>>1595684
You're leaving out most of the benefits. Such as:
* elimination of lifetime caps
* no more denials for pre-existing conditions
* extended maternal and natal coverages
* children can stay on parent's policy for longer

Also, the widely reported increases in policies are limited to the "exchange" which is a website you can go to get insurance if you can't get it yourself or don't get it through your employer. This only affects a small percentage of people. Most people in the U.S. get their insurance through their job, and this didn't change.

I don't disagee that the ACA has problems, but it was the best version of the law that could get passed at the time. It can and should be improved, including by placing tighter controls on the insurance industry. But to abolish it would but the U.S. back where it was before Obama: cursed with the most backwards, undeveloped healthcare system in the modern world.

>>1595695
>strawman
You're arguing in favor of the law based on the idea that the only other option is the Republican's idea to repeal the whole thing. That's not the case, but it does allow you to claim that "the good parts of the law are better than nothing".
No shit, but that's not what the arguments against it were in the first place. Namely, it was argued that the cost was exorbitant, and a better solution could be found. The Obama administration's response to this was "The GOP won't compromise right now, so this is the only choice. That was bullshit, along with their lies that costs wouldn't go up.

>>1595657
It's a pretty awful policy for the Middle Class. Like, yeah, it's great to get people insured. I think that's good. But Health care isn't cheap and the cost of living in some areas makes it incredibly difficult to afford (I live in Denver, CO and the cost of living is getting insane with the legalization of pot).

The biggest issue I think is the tax penalty against not having it. Basically, it's illegal not to have health issurance at this point. You are charged 300 dollars per month for every month of the year that you don't have insurance, and it counts against you as a tax penalty.

Americans are either being forced to pay 200 dollars a month for insurance or 300 dollars for every month they don't, and it shouldn't be like that.

I don't have an issue with the law itself, I have an issue with the tax penalty.

>>1595695
>benefits

Those are shortsighted "benefits" that do more harm than good. They existed for a reason beyond corporate greed.

>>1595728
>a better solution could be found
Not one that could be approved in the current political climate.

One of the things you'll learn as an adult is that an idea doesn't mean anything if it can't be implemented. There are probably many "better" concepts than the ACA, but no amount of dreaming or wishing would ever make them possible in our lifetimes.

>>1595742
>Americans are either being forced to pay 200 dollars a month for insurance or 300 dollars for every month they don't, and it shouldn't be like that
Like all taxes, its a cost imposed in the individual in order to serve the greater good. Taxes are never justifiable when you have a narrow, selfish focus. It's only when you look at the benefits to society that you see the real picture.

>>1595765
>They existed for a reason beyond corporate greed.
No. No they didn't. All they did is alter the policy underwriting, which artificially held prices in check and allowed the insurance companies to reap huge profits on the most desirable base of insureds.

Insurance as a safety net fails unless it's available to everyone. Because insurance as a safety net was the only system that could be passed, the laws had to change. It's really just that simple.

>>1595825
>Not one that could be approved in the current political climate
Thanks for proving my point.
Obama's administration decided that ramming through a terribly flawed plan was necessary because nothing else could be approved "in the current political climate".
That's a shitty argument, and as an "adult", you should know it.
I might as well nuke Syria, because I can't get the congressional votes to send troops in. What the hell, it was necessary, as nothing else could be "approved in the current political climate".
All you're doing is arguing the subjective importance of something, than justifying any means necessary in order to achieve it.
Weak.

>>1595829
You're just being a naive idiot. The majority of the populace understood that the healthcare system needed reform. There was finally, for the first time in decades, enough political will to start reforming the system.

And according to you, we should have passed on the opportunity because the result wasn't perfect.

Fuck you and your hindsight. Governing is about making priority decisions and helping people, even though the system isn't perfect. We don't live in Utopia, and never have.

>>1595832
>naive idiot
>Fuck you and your hindsight
You just sound pissed that you know I'm right.

>the healthcare system needed reform
Not the same as implementing a horrible plan in order to do it.


>enough political will to start reforming the system
Just not enough to do it without fucking everyone. But who cares about that, right?

Just admit it.
The plan is a spectacular failure on many levels, and the millions it gave insurance to doesn't change that. You're in denial like the rest of the shitheels who pushed it on the public: When presented with evidence that you lied about the financial implications in order to pass whatever you could get away with, you retreat to a lame ass argument about "necessity" and "better than nothing".

Your arguments and those who promoted them are a joke.

>>1595657

It's a mess that tried to patch a system leaking from every hole imaginable.

The US needs a single payer healthcare system, as every civilized country already has. But that'll never be passed, since too many people profit from the existing convulse.

>>1595657
It attempted to un-fuck the private healthcare system by regulating it more strictly and opening it up to more extensive government intervention.

Health insurance is now a marginally less shitty business, and more Americans have health insurance coverage (because it is now mandated by the state that every individual seek health insurance coverage).

It shouldn't be abolished, because there are plenty of good measures contained within the act. The individual mandate is an affront to liberty, and as a proponent of a single-payer system, I find that it perpetuates an irrevocably flawed system.

>>1595695
My grandfather met up with the death panel and was told his medicine was better served to a younger person, but he could get a free appt to discuss end-of-life choices. Can't be denied? just obama marxist bs

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>>1595695
>but it was the best version of the law that could get passed at the time.

WRONG WRONG WRONG. It was Obama's choice. Opening up insurance companies to operate across state lines would've have given competition and free markets a chance.

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>>1596732
??? You are delusional. Do you really believe what you wrote?

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>>1595832
>The majority of the populace understood that the healthcare system needed reform. T
Yes, they did understand the healthcare system. At the time Obamacare was passed, 68% of the population opposed it. Obama rammed it through.

>>1596732
>Because government regulation fixes problems

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>>1595829
>All you're doing is arguing the subjective importance of something, than justifying any means necessary in order to achieve it.
>Weak.

Thank you. Teach this feeble-minded Social Justice Warrior that although he is entitled to his own opinion, he isn't entitled to his own set of facts..

>>1595657

What they should have done:
> Levy a small tax from the richest 1% of earners and from organizations with 1000+ employees
> Use this money to subsidize healthcare for people earning under $20k a year
> Regulate the medical management groups so they stop making such excessive money, the same way they regulate the insurers

What they did:
> made healthcare mandatory for all citizens (via the tax penalty) and businesses with 50+ employees
> eliminated pre-existing condtions, every citizen treated the same under insurance
> taxed middle class and upper class more to subzidize lower class
> Gave med management, insurance, pharma, and med tech even more power than before

It's an unfair disaster. Repeal it and replace it with what I posted above (it will never happen thanks to corporate power and lobbyists)

But hey our vote matters right guys?! It's not all about the money!! R-right guys.....

>>1595684

Actually I think the price has gone up more because of the preexiting condition thing.

Consider the following. A 30 year old male, 5'10, 160lbs, who is in perfect health and never smokes or drinks will pay the same premiums as:

> a 500lb male
> an 80yr old woman
> an HIV infected male.

An obese person can cost TEN TIMES the costs of a healthy person during their lifetime, in healthcare costs.

>>1595695

> * no more denials for pre-existing conditions

> thinking this is a good thing

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! this socialism will destroy us.

and:

> extended maternal and natal coverages

why should a woman who has 10 kids pay the same in coverage as a woman who had 1 kid?

>>1595832

> It needed reform

the ONLY thing that needed to happen was:

a) reducing the income of the insurers
b) reducing the income of the medical management groups
c) reducing the income of big pharma
d) providing a low cost or free option for poor people

That's it. Would have been great. Some small changes. Not the disaster we got.

>>1596826
Because the breeding sow will probably not ever vote Republican?

>>1596797
>things that didn't happen

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>>1596829
>the ONLY thing that needed to happen was:
>a) reducing the income of the insurers
>b) reducing the income of the medical management groups
>c) reducing the income of big pharma
>d) providing a low cost or free option for poor people

Who decides how much income someone else gets? You?

>>1596879

Ordinarily I would agree with you.

But the problem in medicine in America is there is collusion. As long as insurance groups, and medical management groups agree to "pretty much" the same rates, they can have the chokehold on the whole system and people will have to pay or die.

The answer was more regulation. Not Obamacare. People who say any form of regulation in business is bad still want oil barons, and 8yr olds working in factories.

>>1597065
>>The answer was more regulation. Not Obamacare.

Fuck you're stupid. The ACA was the biggest piece of insurance industry regulation in the history of the country.

You Eurofags and Trumptards are embarrassing yourself. None of you even understand the law, let alone have the capacity to discuss its flaws.

/biz/ never fails to disappoint.

>>1595657
It encourages circulation and boosts the money supply. It means the system is going to die and this will help buy some time.

Here's 1 million pieces of trash and all I demand is 25% of your profits on it.
>1 year later.
I've decided I want 50% of your profits and if you don't pay I'll rob you blind.
>All the sudden the money is worth more.

>>1595657
It force-fed millions of patients into a healthcare system that didn't have the resources to take care of those pts. Thus everyone's insurance went up to provide extra money and unless you can pay, medical resources became more scarce (more waiting for care).

The only good side was that it is preparing the US health system for the future boomer death spiral (hopefully we can get our shit together soon or else it's gonna be even higher fees and Death panels).

>>1597065
>People who say any form of regulation in business is bad still want oil barons
Oil barons is going to make a comeback after shit hits the fan, you wait and see.
The microcosm of industrialising is consolidating ownership and production means. An industrialisation of the financial system so to speak. It will increase the efficiency and effectiveness of the economy.
Wait and see, the next recession will bring in big changes and all these small-time "players" will get knocked out of the box as the market gets swamped with liquidity on both sides thanks to all this "monetarism" and leveraging. Can't get rich with 9% when benchmark rates are 5%.

>>1595657
>>Mind explaining how you think its going to work

It's already imploding.

The healthy are unwilling to jack up their premiums to pay for the sick. They'd rather pay a small penalty.

Alot of millenial kids are choosing the small penalty over supporting some nigger's subsidized insurance.

>>1597266
>It force-fed millions of patients into a healthcare system that didn't have the resources to take care of those pts.
Evidence please.

>>1597287
>The healthy are unwilling to jack up their premiums to pay for the sick. They'd rather pay a small penalty.
t. Poorfags who can't afford insurance in the forst place are claiming to be making "protest" votes by violating the coverage mandate.

Son, if you're too poor to afford insurance, the government will subsidize it. There are more poor, stupid white people like you than there are poor, stupid black people. You're as common as trash on the highway, redneck.

>>1597296
percentages. this isnt reddit pal, cant get away with your idiocy here.

>>1598056
>types one word
>think its an argument
>reddit rerefence
Retards, ladies and gentlemen. How to spot them in the wild.

>>1598130
>argues subjective policies are a "necessity"
>calls other posters "retards"
Keep going. At least you're entertaining us.

>>1598146
>subjective policies
Are there "nonsubjective policies"? Policies, by definition, involve subjective decisions about priorities and goals.

Congrats, you jumped to the top of the dumbest-person-in-the-thread list.

>>1598157
>throws bitter insults
You must really hate yourself.
Tell us more, we need the chuckles.

>>1598167
I responded to your point, and rekt your argument. Insulting you was icing on the cake.

You're out of your league, retard.

>>1598179
>retard
Again with the "retard" comment.
Some originality, please. Lowbrow entertainment is all well and good, but it needs some variety.

>>1598187
You don;t seem to be chuckling. You seem to be MASSIVELY triggered.

We'll see based on your next post.

If your next post is a thoughtful discussion of the topic at hand, with reasonable argument supported by evidence, then you're not triggered and I'm wrong.

If your next post is a knee-jerk shitpost (like your last three) with no substance and only ad homs, then you're triggered and I win.

Your move, fag.

>>1598194
>fag
Now we're getting somewhere.
Your latent homosexuality is perfect fodder for this thread. Let's see if I have any popcorn.

>>1598197
t. EXTREMELY TRIGGERED

>>1598211
>caps lock broken
There's no need to shout.
If you're upset, just count to 20.
Or 10, if that's easier.

>>1598215
t. TRIGGERING INTENSIFIES

>>1598240
Caps lock, anon.
It's on the left side of your keyboard.
Probably under a cheeto.

>>1595825

> pay $200 for car
> pay $100 - $300 for car insurance
> pay $25 - $75 a week in health insurance
> pay 0.15% towards taxes a week
> pay 6% towards 401k

Working at McDonalds.

> pay $40 to be told you have cold

And you wonder why people are pissed. You have no wiggle room and you're locked into your class. You can't enjoy life. You work day in and day out only to hate your situation.

You see these people complaining about health insurance and America should have universal healthcare. Only reason that America is America, is due to it being your money and your life. Not having to worry about Joe Blow who has 12 kids and can't afford to live. Someone has to shovel the shit - that's what makes America great - greed.

We're in a cunty era where everyone wants something for free without the consequences of their actions. No acceptance of responsibility.

>>1598253
t. MAXIMUM TRIGGERING WARNING

>>1598265
>Working at McDonalds.
Wew lad, careful with your cherry-picked examples. You might bite a pit.

All you're doing is making the case for increasing the minimum wage. You a closet liberal and didn't even know it.

"Millennials Are Buying Beer Instead of Health Insurance"

> Young people are supposed to keep the Affordable Care Act running. The way the whole thing works requires healthy young people to pay into the system in order to help offset the health care expenses of sicker, older people. Tax penalties of up to $700 are supposed to deter healthy young people from skipping out on participating, but that’s nothing compared to the monthly premiums. According to the CEO of Aetna, one of the nation’s largest health insurers, young people are putting their meager but hard-earned dollars toward more important things instead… like alcohol.

> “Young people can do the math,” Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini said at a New York conference hosted by Bloomberg this week. “Gas for the car, beer on Fridays and Saturdays, health insurance.”

> When young people don’t pay in, premiums rise to cover the cost of caring for older patients. Eventually, as has been the case in many parts of the country, insurers stop offering plans through Obamacare as the burden of providing coverage to patients who use their insurance a lot becomes too great. Earlier this year, Aetna stopped offering Obamacare coverage in 70 percent of the counties where it had previously provided Affordable Care Act plans.

>>1598383
> Young people are supposed to keep the Affordable Care Act running. The way the whole thing works requires healthy young people to pay into the system in order to help offset the health care expenses of sicker, older people.

THIS IS LITERALLY A FUCKING PONZI SCHEME

Any retarded millenial can figure this out

>>1598383
>Tax penalties of up to $700

$700 vs. $5k to $6k in insurance.

Considering I grew up poor without insurance for most of my life, this is a pretty easy decision for most 20 year olds who think they're invincible.

>>1598367
Something new, please.
The "triggering" in all caps is pretty stale by now.
Can you step up your game somewhat?

>>1598392
OMG, social security is a ponzi scheme too. OMG Medicare is a ponzi scheme too. OMG food stamps are a ponzi scheme too.

Shut up faggot. In a civilized society those with help support those without. So yes, I have to support you, even if I don't want you.

>ungrateful shit

>>1598415
t. TRIGGERING CONTINUES BY MAN TOO STUPID TO MAKE SUBSTANTIVE POST

>>1598422

why are you even in this thread? you sound like a 8 year old butting into an adult conversation for attention.

>>1598429
He's too invested in his viewpoint to concede now.

>>1598422
More insults. It's too bad you're letting your anger get the better of you.

>>1598429
Just because I insult you, doesn't mean I'm not making substantive points. I know you lack the intelligence to debate me, so this isn't really entertaining or engaging for me. Your an ignorant shit not worthy of my time. The only reason I can even stand being here is to belittle you. That's petty, I admit, but fuck you. It's not my fault you're retarded and pretending otherwise.

Know your place.

>>1598438
t. TRIGGERING INCREASES FROM MAN STILL TOO STUPID TO MAKE A SINGLE ON-TOPIC POST

>>1598441
>so this isn't really entertaining or engaging for me
And yet you're here anyway.
Wow. You really should get some professional help. Anger management and whatnot.

>>1598441
>That's petty, I admit

Self awareness is the first step...

>>1598367

Actually it's not about increasing min wage, that will cause inflation.

It's about retards such as yourself that want to rape everyone for taxes, cause' Jamal doesn't have insurance.

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>I know you lack the intelligence to debate me, so this isn't really entertaining or engaging for me. Your an ignorant shit not worthy of my time. The only reason I can even stand being here is to belittle you. That's petty, I admit, but fuck you. It's not my fault you're retarded and pretending otherwise.

>>1598453
You say this like it's supposed to offend me. I'm petty. I admit it, and I embrace it.

The unfortunate reality is that in real life, I have to be tolerant and accepting of ignorant fucks like you. If I lord my intelligence over you in the real world, I'm seen as arrogant and privileged.

But this is 4chan. I don't have to give a fuck. I can tell you to your face that you're human garbage without consequences. And I don;t care if that hurts your feelings because, in truth, you deserve it.

On topic, the point is I don't care about your ignorant, ill-formed opinions about the ACA. You're too stupid to get it anyway. I don't need to convince you of its benefits because I already made sure you get them. You win because I'm more interested in making the country better than in punishing you. Because that's real life.

But here? Fuck you, fag. Cry on your own time.

>>1598455
>It's about retards such as yourself that want to rape everyone for taxes, cause' Jamal doesn't have insurance.
Who do you think pays Jamal's medical bills when he goes to the ER without insurance?

>protip: your tax dollars.

Stop. being. stupid.

>>1598470
>I'm seen as arrogant and privileged
For once, we agree.

>But this is 4chan
>I can tell you to your face
Well, it was good while it lasted.

>>1598479
Jesus, you literally embody the beta cuck meme.

>>1598485
>beta cuck
At last, some fresh material.
Now, if you could just throw in some bitterness about being petty, I could get some coffee.

>>1598471
>your tax dollars.
kek
where did those dollars come from?
how did they become 'yours'?
what makes you think they're still yours when the owner asks for them back?

if you're going to pretend to be intelligent you shouldn't be falling for the money illusion.

you also shouldn't be so poor that you resent paying taxes.

>>1595657
Once upon a time american hospitals by law had to accept any idiot that walked into the ER most of the time thos idiot was poor and could neither afford the treatment nor health insurance. As a result the costs ended up rolling over to the ones that did pay. Inflating the price of both healthcare and health insurance.

Obama care basically addresses this issue by saying that since everyone is ,by law, already garunteed tgis minimum amount of service then they must also, by law, spend money on it.
In otherwords, everybody has to either be self insured (rich) or by insurance like the rest of the plebs.

The idea behind this is that if the poor people are finally paying for their healthcare then prices over all will go down.
This of course didnt take into account 11 million undocumented mexicans that work in high risk menial jobs i.e. they get injured and go to the ER and dont pay shit anyway.

It also didnt take into account that by artificially increasing the demand for insurance then it gives insurance companies leeway to raise prices which they did.

At the time most people were insured through there employers who then took this as an oppurtunity to skimp out on benefits by changing the offered plans to shitty ones.

More over obamacare also involves subsidizing medical bills unpaid by either the insurance or the patients.
This was paid for by raising taxes across the board.


Over all it was a shitty bill that fucked things up for us both in short term market destabilization
And in long term economic growth.

Honestly the problem could have been solved by letting hospitals refuse assholes who werent paying up front.

>>1598530
>Honestly the problem could have been solved by letting hospitals refuse assholes who werent paying up front.
We don't live in that kind of society. And we shouldn't want to.

Eastern Europe and Asia are is full of shitty countries with this kind of mentality, if that's how you want to live. The rest of have decided to take a different path. You can bitch about it, but in a democracy you've been soundly outvoted. Either accept it or move away.

>>1598554
don't get too angry, his idea is impossible anyways.

many of the people that come through hospital doors are too busy being unconscious or dying to pay.

>>1598554
>In a democracy.....

Only a total fucking retard would use the idiotic institution of democracy as an exceptable justification for any state of affairs

>>1598576
In otherwords whoever brought them can foot the bill

>>1598659
the EMT's? Paramedics?
or do you mean the ambulance drivers?

>>1598657

Democracy doesn't work bcos most ppl are fucking retarded and don't deserve rights.

>>1598662
The ones who decided to call them.

>>1598657
>idiotic institution of democrac

Eurofag detected. Opinion ignored. Beware of extreme edge and extreme poverty.

>>1598676
In other words the ideals of democracy are utopian at best and the only stable democracies are the ones that are so rigged that an establoshed oligarchy forms a political class all on its own.

>>1598703
that's usually the police, but it may be passing motorists or strangers on the street.

I'm just fucking with you to show how little you've thought this through though.

if we wanted to we could make people pay in advance. Then we could pool their payments, skim profit off the top and use the average payout as a benchmark for what to charge. Then we could call that "insurance" and maybe even require everyone to have it or pay a penalty.

oh wait....

>>1598706
I served the US army honorably and earned my citizenship.
I am an american.

>>1598712
I thought it through pretty well honestly.
You started grasping at straws and then I decided to give you straws.

>>1598715
you started off saying the patient should pay then when that didn't work you said the ambulance driver should pay and when that fucked up you said the police or strangers should pay.

I don't think you've thought it through at all.
I actually think you're a bit retarded.

>>1598713
Tell us about your Navy Seal confirmed kills too.

Fuck you, Yuropoor faggot. Don't claim to be an American in the same thread you shit on Democracy.

>>1597227

So what praytell was regulated?

>>1597287

I'm gonna make $50k this year and I've chosen to pay the penalty.

$3k a year for a perfectly healthy male is outrageous.

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>>1598723
>So what praytell was regulated?
Among other things...

>>1597287
>Alot of millenial kids are choosing the small penalty over supporting some nigger's subsidized insurance.
lol
what do you think that penalty goes to?

morons.

>>1598422

But social security is literally a ponzi. There is no investment. The "investors" are handing their money to the withdrawing people....

What don't you get about this?

>>1598719
>you started off saying the patient should pay

And most of them would be forced to if not unconcious or dying, yes

>then when that didn't work

When you think your snide remark is a valid argument

>you said the ambulance driver should pay

I said the friend or family member that decided to drive the unconcious and dying patient should pay, yes and they would be forced to

>and when that fucked up

When you still think your snide remarks are valid arguments

>you said the police or strangers should pay.

When there is noone left to pay then the patient pays fir it by dying and ridding siciety if another parasitic heroin addict or meth whore

>I don't think you've thought it through at all.

I dont think you are worth a kek

>I actually think you're a bit retarded.

Good luck with that autism

>>1598722
No navy seal kills here
Just picked up a lot of cigarrete butts, paid my phone bills and went to iraq for 13 monthes.
Was over all a pain in the ass but it got me a citizenship, job training and some capital which is really all you need in america.

>>1598730
double spacing your stupidity isn't making you look any less retarded.

we've already fixed this problem, it's called INSURANCE. Now we just need everyone except the poor to pay into it. Not coincidentally this is what the ACA does.

>>1598735
You claim to have put your life on the line to defend, uphold, and spread "the idiotic institution of democracy."

That makes you the dumbest motherfucker in the world.

>>1598736
>double spacing your stupidity isn't making you look any less retarded.

Just accomodating your autism.

>we've already fixed this problem, it's called INSURANCE.

That overpriced thing that is often inadequate and not everybody has keep dreaming.

>Now we just need everyone except the poor to pay into it.

Talking as if the poor have ever paid for anything

>Not coincidentally this is what the ACA does.

The ACA is a whole lot of paper work for no reason if that is the case because poor people never pay for shit in the first place.

>>1598739
>You claim to have put your life on the line to defend, uphold, and spread "the idiotic institution of democracy."
that's not actually what the military does.

the US isn't exactly a democracy anyways.

>>1598744
>The ACA is a whole lot of paper work for no reason if that is the case because poor people never pay for shit in the first place
forcing poor people to pay wasn't the goal at all.

the idea was to get young people to pay for something they don't usually buy because they don't usually need it.

>>1598739
>You claim to have put your life on the line to defend, uphold, and spread "the idiotic institution of democracy."

I put my life on the line because america is the land of free trade not because of anything as pathetic as the votes of plebs

>That makes you the dumbest motherfucker in the world.

Those straws youre grasping at.... are they jewish?

>>1598739
>Beware of extreme edge and extreme poverty
>Yuropoor faggot
>dumbest motherfucker
Oh god, are you talking again?
Please get all angry and start yelling. I have people over who want to be entertained by your nonsensical rambling.

>>1598750
>america is the land of free trade
Um, no its not. Never has been. There are miles of international trade regulations and restrictions.

That you fought for a illusion is even more sad. You getting cucked by life, son.

>>1598756
What is it with you people and autism?
America is far less restrictive than my shit tier muslim country of origin.
Moreover, many of those trade restrictions are set in place to ensure that market manipulation is slowed mitigated.
This way free and fair competition isnt himdered 100% of the time. Its more 50/50

>>1598758
Why are you arguing the reasons in favor of trade regulations (which I know far better than you) when you just argued that America is the "land of free trade?"

Honestly, I think you might have PTSD.

>>1598769
>I think you might have PTSD
I think you have a neurological imbalance, or maybe Tourette's.
That would explain your tendency to repeatedly insult everyone who disagrees with you.
But it could be that you're like most 13 year olds.

>>1598769
There is a marked difference betweem free trade where there is social mobility
And the pure capitalism of the days of industrialism.
The only thing pure capitalism does is create monopolists and communists.

>>1598802
Nice pivoting, kid. You should play professional dodgeball.

First you railed on democracy. Then it was all about free trade. Now its capitalism and communism.

As soon as you decide which of your personalities is in control here, pick an argument and stick with it.

>>1598749
Young people... aka people who dont get paid much because they dont yet have marketable skills aka poor people

>>1598806
>Nice pivoting, kid. You should play professional dodgeball.

Ok

>First you railed on democracy.

Because its a failed system

> Then it was all about free trade

Because its a successful system

>Now its capitalism and communism.

Because the person im talking to doesnt understand tge difference between free trade and capitalism

>As soon as you decide which of your personalities is in control here, pick an argument and stick with it

Theyre all part the same argument, its just too complex for you to understand.
Apparently.
I didnt know that you lacked this capacity probably because im new to this site and im not sure what the baseline user is capable of in terms of logical reasoning.

>>1598802
Appreciate the reasoned response, but as you can see, it won't get you far in this thread.
Our 13 year old here is much more interested in disagreeing with you on principle, or lack thereof.

>>1598813
If you think you've made a cogent, well-reasoned argument in ANY of your posts, you're a deluded moron with poor English skills.

>Protip: you're a deluded moron with poor English skills.

>>1598814
Its all good.
How come the post numbers dont go in numerical order?

>>1598829
>deluded moron
See what I mean?

It's all the threads, not just this one.

>>1598834
So youre saying every thread usually has a 12 year old in it.
Unfortunate.
Well, I'm glad I was reffered here any way.
Some of the things people say here are funny and the memes are refreshing albeit sometimes hard to decipher.

>>1598834
Seriously though, how does one samefag? Or spot a samefag and whats with the post numbers ?

>>1598839
>So youre saying every thread usually has a 12 year old in it.
Lol.
This one does, that's for sure.
Pure entertainment.

>samefag
ID's make this non existent, as it's easy to see who's who.
Back when ID's weren't used, anons would reply multiple times in the hope of bolstering their arguments.

>>1598841
>samefag
Although, some go to greater lengths, by using different IP's in order to create new ID's.

>>1598845
Ah, ok. Because ive heard the term before and wondered.

I am 31 years old and have been paying out of pocket for health insurance for almost 10 years now.

I will admit that I am lucky enough to not have had any pre-existing medical conditions but my point is that this really isn't hard. I see absolutely no reason why other people can not purchase their own health care like I did. It isn't that expensive. I pay $270/month with a $5,000 deductible.

This sounds juvenile but I firmly believe it: if these people would stop spending their money on booze, weed, and other degenerate thrills, they would be able to afford health care.

Instead they voluntarily decide to do nothing and complain on reddit instead.

Like I said, it isn't hard and it isn't that expensive. The ACA made my life worse.

WE ARE GOING TO REPLACE THE DISASTER THAT IS [spoiler]ARAB[/spoiler] OBAMACARE.

>>1598728
>what do you think that penalty goes to?

Please try to keep up.

That penalty is nowhere close to what is needed to cover the needs of the sick.

This is why the companies involved are running a deficit and have had to raise prices by 30 - 60%

>>1598885
>This is why the companies involved are running a deficit and have had to raise prices by 30 - 60%
except those companies aren't covering the poor, Medicaid is.

so that penalty you're paying is going more directly to poor people's health care than anything you would've paid an insurance company. If you don't want to pay poor people's insurance BUY YOUR OWN. Then none of your money goes to the poor.

except your normal taxes, you know those are supporting the poor anyways.

>>1598866
I personally am in your situation, but my wife and son both have preexisting conditions that prevented them from getting insurance. Which meant I had to keep my earnings below poverty level or be bankrupted every other year by medical expenses.

forced to stay broke either way.

ACA improved my life and that of my family 9000%

>>1598866

I believe its less a matter of fiscal difficulty and more an issue of principal.
I earned my money and resent being told what to do with it especially when there is no clear bebefit to me or society

You say you spend 270 a month well that is money you couldve been saving for something else or investing in a nice local business venture. Putting into a community pool fund for the neighborhood. The reasoning being is that not every responsible citizen wants healthcare.

Honestly if people stopped spending money on their degeneracy then they would need a hell of a lot less healthcare in the first place.

>>1598988
>I earned my money
there's that money illusion again.

it's not "your" money, the government prints it, lets you use it for a while, and takes it back.

if it were yours it would be worthless. It only has value because everyone else agrees that it does. You can't take that value by agreement and not pay the costs we also agreed to. You don't choose, "we" do.

so fuck you and "your" money.

>>1598993
>there's that money illusion again.

Money is a real thing people exchange for goods and services.

>it's not "your" money,

Yes it is

>the government prints it, lets you use it for a while, and takes it back.

Your on /biz/ and have never heard of crypto currencies.

>if it were yours it would be worthless.

Assuming other people didnt want it and i was the only one using it.

>It only has value because everyone else agrees that it does.

I know that and it is irrelevant considering you just admitted it has value.

>You can't take that value by agreement and not pay the costs we also agreed to. You don't choose, "we" do.

On the contrary I do choose whenever I decide I'm getting a raw deal. Its not anyones fault you are incapable of negotiation.

>so fuck you and "your" money.

I would never allow you to deflower my money unless you were offering me a good or service of equal or greater value.

>>1599073
I'm just trying to help you, little buddy.
as one Marine to another.
I assume you're a Marine, it's hard to imagine people as stupid as you in other branches of service.

Money doesn't have some static value that doesn't change. The sooner you learn this the sooner you can figure out how to make enough of it to not care about taxes.

working for "your" money is a fool's game. It's clear you're a fool, but perhaps you can grow out of it.

>>1599084
>I'm just trying to help you, little buddy.

Im just trying to give you money.

>as one Marine to another.

US army = soldier, USMC = marine

>Money doesn't have some static value that doesn't change.

If you feel it isnt worth anything then go ahead and short it all the way to zero. If youre right youll make a killing.

>The sooner you learn this the sooner you can figure out how to make enough of it to not care about taxes.

I dont think you understand how to comnect things in a logical ,'cause and effect' sort of way.

>working for "your" money is a fool's game.

Im sure you dont mean that.
Either that or your rich but i'm going to go ahead and bet you arent.

>It's clear you're a fool, but perhaps you can grow out of it.

Hey, your starting to talk more like I do.
Good for you.

>>1599090
>Either that or your rich but i'm going to go ahead and bet you arent.
bet whatever you like.

as a combat veteran you get preference on government contracts for small businesses. How many people would you have to employ with your contracting company so you don't ever have to work for "your" money again?

not many.

then taxes become an operating expense, nothing more or less. Your employer hands you a thousand dollars and takes 500 back. Just the cost of doing business. Then you don't have to get your personal panties in a wad over it because they're paying "your" taxes, not you.

Do as you please though. Being broke leads to all kinds of frustrations, including over where "your" taxes go. Because you worked for them and like to pretend they were yours to begin with. We could avoid all that if we just took the money out of your check before you ever saw it, that's what we usually do.