This is fucking hilarious!

>>1483383
So?

Those subhumans don't need more money.

>RESTAURANT COOKS

Oh wow so hard to make some fucking pasta lmfao

>retail salespeople

wow such valuable people to society, really need $500k/yr for all their valuable work

unskilled jobs mean nothing. they are just slaves. They can easily be replaced by robots.

Market forces at work here, folks

>the market determines the price of non-skilled laborers to be low
Color me surprised. Still I think the competition for these peoples labor would be greater if we hadn't engineered artificial oligopolies through taxing and regulating small businesses to death, and then tacitly OK'ing the importation of central and south Americans who have a lower standard of pay that they expect.

>>1483383
Restaurant cook is a little misleading. That could either be mickydee's or Bob Flay.

>>1483385
/thread

>>1483411
>unskilled jobs mean nothing. they are just slaves. They can easily be replaced by robots.
This, essentially.

>Food prep
Likely includes part-timers or hourly workers for shitty restaurants.

>Personal care aides
I know at least 3 people who call themselves this because they moved back in with their grandparents and game all day, no joke.

>Home health aides
This isn't good, but I'd love to hear the details - PT?

>Retail salespeople
Jobs meant for highschoolers and their ilk. There's no goddamn reason we should be concerned that a shirt folder at the Gap doesn't get a living wage.

>Restaurant cooks
Encompasses everything from line cooks at fuckin' Applebees to Gordon fucking Ramsey. The former are little more than brainless automatons.

>>1483385
Restaurant cooks are critical to the economy. How would you like to go to a restaurant only for them to tell you "sorry, we have no cooks today"

It doesn't matter how "easy" their job is. Their job is critical to society. Without them we would be fucked. Anyone who works 40 hours a week is important enough to the economy to make a LIVING WAGE for their time.

>>1483466
>Restaurant cooks are critical to the economy. How would you like to go to a restaurant only for them to tell you "sorry, we have no cooks today"


I would say "Okay no problem, I'll just go to costco, buy some steaks that cost a fraction of what it'd cost me here at your shitty restaurant and grill them up at home with my date, no big deal".

but that's beside the point, if that were the case then the market would find homeostasis, an equilibrium.

>It doesn't matter how "easy" their job is. Their job is critical to society. Without them we would be fucked

If their job is so critical and important to society, why aren't they paid more? It would seem that the market does not infact deem their jobs as critical.

>Anyone who works 40 hours a week is important enough to the economy to make a LIVING WAGE for their time.

Why? Because of your opinion?

Sorry pal, that's not what the free market seems to say.

>Living wage
What does that even mean?

>>1483466
Why does a gallon of water cost less than an ounce of diamond?

>>1483473
I concur with 100% of this post.

The somewhat unspoken rule of salaries is that they - in most situations - are roughly reflective of how much value you add. Line cooks get jack shit because it requires 0 skill, though the work is admittedly hard. Ditto for "cooks" who pop things in the microwave.

File: CURRENTYEAR.png (71KB, 184x251px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 184x251px

>>1483466
>living wage
you can live on pennies in this fucking country. A YMCA membership, a thrift store, a junker car, and GMO food that is cheap as dirt when bought in bulk is all that you need.

If by "livable wage" you mean NYC flats, color tvs, eating out, and driving new cars, then no it's not a livable wage, you spoiled shit.

>>1483466
>How would you like to go to a restaurant only for them to tell you "sorry, we have no cooks today"

By the way, if this was the case then the wage for cooks would rise to reach homeostasis because the restaurant would need to pay more to attract cooks to meet their demand otherwise it would get shutdown

Yes I know there's exceptions but for the most part the market is right.

Those jobs pay jack shit because ANYONE with a working body and brain can fulfill them. They require no specialized skills, no talents, no education, no real experience.

>Put steak on grill
>Wait time until it looks cooked to medium rare
>Flip over steak
>Steak is ready, use tongs to lift steak and put it on plate

wow so hard, rly deserves $80k/yr salary starting with full vision dental and 6 month vacation time

>>1483462
>Home health aides

These are literally just people that come to your house and clean up and cook. The only difference between them and a straight maid is that they can help with giving you prescriptions and testing blood sugar.

No degree required. All you have to have is first aid/CPR certifications and take a weekend training course.

This isn't the same thing as a home nurse, which actually pays a lot.

>>1483483
Exactly.
Yet here in Australia we have a fucking nation of deluded entitled cunts who think it's reasonable they should be paid $38/hr to take a cup of hot milk from point "A" to point "B" because it's a Sunday.

Im not lying. If you're over 21 and work casually on a Sunday, $35-38/hr.

>>1483385
whos more important

the cook feeding your fat ass.

or the fat ass that sits and rent seeks

>>1483490

same logic applied to executives

>yell at people until numbers are hit no matter how unreasonable
>Blame underlings if a failure
>Reap rewards if successful

>>1483576
>same logic applied to executives
But yet they're paid more, huh?

Why is that?

>>1483507
>the cook feeding your fat ass.

How is that a difficult job? I could do it myself, as I almost always do. (I rarely go out to eat, mostly because I can cook a better meal than most restaurants at a much better price, in the comfort of my own home.

>>1483576
Executive positions are arguably more meritocratic than lower levels. Those shareholder sharks will eat you alive and blacklist you if you don't perform. And they obviously wouldn't pay them so highly of they didn't think they brought value to a company commensurate with their salary.

>>1483419
You know the market doesnt determine minimum wage right?

>>1483604
>You know the market doesnt determine minimum wage right?

Yeah exactly, they'd probably be paid even less because they're worthless

>>1483473
Nobody would actually really say that tho lol. What a dunce

>>1483479
Because corporations have minipulated the price of diamonds to keep them high

>>1483485
>you can live on pennies
Not all of us live in their moms basement shitlord

>>1483615
Pennies is hyperbole. You can live very cheaply in America. Even illegals receive "livable wages". We tend to self select for higher costs. For example if you go to the barrio you can get groceries so cheap it will blow your mind. You can get your smartphone fix from a Chinese company for a fraction.

>>1483604
I never said it did, but I do believe it should.

>>1483607
The point isnt whether you think someone has worth. The point is this is a first world country and working adults should be entitled to a livable wage. Im not even sure why this is a controversial subject

>>1483623
>The point isnt whether you think someone has worth

Exactly, it's not what I think. It's what the market decide they're worth. And in this case they're worth very little, close to as little as they can legally be paid by the government.

>The point is this is a first world country and working adults should be entitled to a livable wage

What is a living wage? How much do you think they should be paid, lets put it that way
>Im not even sure why this is a controversial subject

Because that's not how economics works

>>1483621
What fucking barrio are you talking about? Ive lived in LA my whole life between downtown and koreatown. The ralphs in the ghetto is the same price as the one in studio marina del rey

>>1483623
The disconnect we're having is that your notion of a livable wage is either not based in reality, or includes unnecessary luxuries. Whereas we hold that it is the wage necessary to keep yourself alive.

>>1483626
>Ralphs
Tell me why poor people are so fucking fat then. It strikes me that they have TOO MUCH to eat, not too little.

>>1483622
Thats not what america is built on tho. Thats an oligarchy where the masses are exploited. That worked out real well for india

>>1483383

They literally never said trickledown economics. That's a myth.

>>1483636
>Thats not what america is built on tho

what is america built on then

How about you answer the question. How much should the minimum wage be and how should it be determined in your opinion?

What is a 'fair' minimum wage? Don't tell me 'a living wage', throw out some numbers and tell us how you got to those numbers, or what methodology you believe the government should realistically take to determine a minimum wage.

>>1483636
>masses are exploited
Return to the cripplechan from whence you came, /leftypol/!

>>1483629
Why did you greentext Ralphs? Poor people are fat because caloric dense foods are cheap and fast. Rich people arent as likely to go thru mcds drive thru on their lunch break or after a long shift

>>1483643
>Poor people are fat because caloric dense foods are cheap and fast.

LOL

[citation required]

Didn't know that chicken breast, vegetables, oats, rice, beans, whey protein, multivitamin were expensive.

>Rich people arent as likely to go thru mcds drive thru on their lunch break or after a long shift

So pack a lunch maybe?

Poor people are fat because they're retarded

>>1483628
I consider rent utilities food transportation and basic health care for self and dependents necessities

>>1483649
>rent utilities food transportation and basic health care for self and dependents necessities

And what makes you think currently the minimum wage does not provide that?

>>1483625
Again. The market doesnt set the minimum wage. I know youve read a ton of posts about econ on /biz/ but "the market is always right" isnt gospel.

>>1483643
Caloric dense fast food isn't the cheapest option even when you consider the value of their time (which is low). As I've said, they ought to buy bulk cereals, rice, beans, frozen meats and frozen vegetables. And if they're able to afford to get fat then they're patently "living" the shit out of themselves with their "unlivable wage".

>>1483654
>he market doesnt set the minimum wage

How much should the minimum wage be and how do you determine it?

>>1483647
>citation needed
So fucking google it shitlord. Since when is baking chicken and boiling rice considered fast?

>>1483649
All of that is affordable if you're economic, excepting the healthcare, and I would argue that the healthcare is only as expensive as it currently is because of government regulation, and subsidizing.

>>1483659
Why would it need to be fast. They can just prepare their meals in anticipation of eating. Even dogs know to burry food because they will, sometime in the future, be hungry again.

>>1483659
>So fucking google it shitlord

good one, make a claim then refuse to back it up.

>Since when is baking chicken and boiling rice considered fast?

Why does it need to be fast?

Buy some tupperware containers, cook then measure out your portions for a week. You can cook meals for an entire week within 2 hours on a weekend.

>>1483623
>The point is this is a first world country and working adults should be entitled to a livable wage

This argument is literally "It's 2016"

>>1483655
>let me just boil some beans here at my desk on my lunch break
Ok

>>1483665
Yes it is possible to go your whole life without fast food. No that is not realistically. I was asked why poor people are more likely to be fat and i answered

>>1483692
hello i'm waiting for you tell me how much the minimum wage should be and how it should be determined

You've been ducking the question for quite a few posts now.

>>1483696
>No that is not realistically.

I haven't ate fastfood in years. Why is that unrealistic? Am i a special person

>>1483692
T u p p e r w a r e
>>1483696
Now that we've established that they will be fed, and fed again, overmuch and in excess, tell me about how they're not getting a "livable wage".

>>1483703
dude they're just entitled to it, okay?

People in a first world country should be entitled to [x], okay? That's it, that's the argument

>>1483651
Basic math. 40 hours at min wage would be ~13,000 before soc security, state tax, insurance ect. Rent alone would be about 6000 of that easily even in a shitty apartment. That leaves less than 500 a month for utilities, transportation, food and other expenses. Add a dependent on that and you can see how that tiny window disappears

Saturation of the labor supply through immigration forces wages down.

It's why the rich have consistently lobbied for increased immigration.

Also it needs to be understood that there is an upper limit on the number of jobs in "high-skilled" sectors and taking the time to become trained to qualify for them is a significant risk in of itself, some industries purposefully regulate the number of people who can enter to prevent their sector from becoming saturated.

I agree a minimum wage isn't a solution, what is a solution is banning immigration, deporting foreign labor and enforcing mass birth control, this will forcibly increase the value of these areas.

>>1483692
How fucking stupid are you

>>1483702
Yes you are a statistical anomaly. But I think you knew that and are just being deliberately obtuse

>>1483713
intended for quoted dude, not you

>>1483716
He's not a statistical anomaly, he's just economic. And we shouldn't institute untenable economic policies because the poor are foolhardy with their wealth.

>>1483716
>Yes you are a statistical anomaly.

What makes it so unrealistic?

i don't smoke, i don't use recreational drugs, i don't drink alcohol (few times /year), I don't eat fastfood. I drink soda maybe a couple times every few years.

i haven't found any of that stuff hard, it's just habits and a lifestyle. It's all it is. You can build good habits, or you can build bad habits.

Poor people need to replace their habits of smoking weed and eating junk food with working on a business and reading books. See how easy their life will improve from that

>>1483711
how much should the minimum wage be

>>1483671
So thats your argument? Poor people should live on week old lentils because the wealthy dont want to give slight minimum wage increases?

>>1483727
>So thats your argument? Poor people should live on week old lentils because the wealthy dont want to give slight minimum wage increases?

I don't think you understand that the minimum wage does not help the poor and vulnerable, that's the irony of this all

>>1483703
Are you really equating a mcdouble with housing and healthcare? Ones a fucking dollar

>>1483725
>poor people just need to start businesses
Holy shit. You jumped the shark. Let me know that great business plan you have that has next to 0 startup costs. Does it involve kneepads?

I don't think we're getting anywhere here.

>>1483727
http://www.learnliberty.org/videos/does-minimum-wage-hurt-workers/

>>1483734

The problem goes beyond that while a few may become successful the system is such that the majority are guaranteed not to be.

The fact is the opportunity for advancement among the lower classes is pretty low, some make it but at this point I would say classes are becoming more rigid.

Beyond this there's the issue of many simply being not capable of anything more.

>>1483730
Costs can be cut when it comes to a living situation to. Healthcare is a debacle I'll admit it, but I would credit that to chronic policy problems and the government' fat fingers

>>1483490
OK if anyone with a working brain can fill those jobs at McDonald's then why are my fries soggy, the burger has onions when I specifically said no onion, and diet fucking coke is Mr pib?

>>1483699
A lot of economists agree that 10.10 would be a good number. So ill defer to that. Personally i think 9.75 or 17,000 after tax would be a good base but obviously that varies by location.

>>1483741
We have economic mobility on par with most of the countries that subscribe to the European pseudo socialism meme, and even the socialist hardliners don't believe that shit can be maintained without cheap third world imports.

>>1483473

>I would say "Okay no problem, I'll just go to costco, buy some steaks that cost a fraction of what it'd cost me here at your shitty restaurant and grill them up at home with my date, no big deal".

but that's beside the point, if that were the case then the market would find homeostasis, an equilibrium.

Correcting that previous poster you're arguing with, NO it is definitely not an easy job. Hell, why else would you NEED a college degree just to get that kind of job? You don't need one for working at MickyDee's and any other fastfood joint, but you need one if you want to work at those proper restaurants like the ones you just mentioned actually (Applebees, etc.). So obviously you need an actual SKILL to be able to do that job, and it would need to PAY WELL later on in your career.

Btw cooking shitty steak =/= possessing years worth of knowledge on how to:

-cook different types of dishes SPECIFIC to a certain type of restaurant
-being able to accurately measure putting ingredients in your cooking... WITHOUT A MEASURING TOOL (most of the time you measure it by sight alone)
-knowing how to manage the stocks in your ingredients and supplies
-cooking the food UNDER PRESSURE because that customer ain't gonna wait for hours
-Oh, not to mention you've still got OTHER dishes to cook and not just that one steak you're cooking on the grill.

Some of your "business" people here are so disconnected from reality, it actually makes me doubt you're business owners at all. That, or you don't really work or own a business in this specific type of industry, so your comments aren't worth a damn.

Autism, pure distilled Autism coming from you.

>>1483746
>A lot of economists agree that 10.10 would be a good number

In what area? In what country?

In what year?

>Personally i think 9.75 or 17,000 after tax would be a good base but obviously that varies by location.

What do you believe the consequences of such a minimum wage increase could potentially be?

Like what do you believe happens if we went to the extremes. Let's say, $50/hr federal minimum wage, $0/hr federal minimum wage(none at all) or $2/hr federal minimum wage. In the US, just hypothetically. What effects would it have?

>>1483753
This post is not constructive.

>>1483742
>costs can be cut for housing
Ya the street is pretty cheap. Dude $600 is dirt cheap rent in 90% of the county. Do you people have any concept of "standard of living"? Yes you can save money every where but where do you draw the line? You dont need toothpaste to survive. You dont need a few pizzas a year. The whole point of raising minimum wage is to get people out of squalor and poverty

>>1483737
Thousands of economists disagree with that

>>1483752

So we have economic mobility of socialist countries with none of the benefits provided by them.

That's not a good argument.

>>1483761
I just don't think we should be in the business of subverting the market and making our labor noncompetitive to save people from themselves.

Considering that wage hikes can cost people jobs, isn't it a concern that 0 dollars an hour is an unlivable wage?

>>1483766
Equality of outcome is not a moral imperative. People being rich around you doesn't mean they wronged you.

Again, the main reason we see a reduction in mobility is because the system's overregulation, and tax system is hostile to small business. Mandatory minimum wage hurts them further.

>>1483761
>The whole point of raising minimum wage is to get people out of squalor and poverty

Why do you believe this would be the case and wouldn't cause inflation and unemployment?

Don't you think that rent would be increased because now so many people are getting paid $x more and can therefore aford to pay?

>>1483767

The jobs that still exist in the US can't be outsourced.

Increasing costs in service areas would be fine, the rich that use them have additional money to spend.

The few areas which consist of poor people servicing other poor people are soon to be completely automated so it's inaccurate to say that it would price people out of the market.

>>1483752
Minimum wage is socialism now? Holy cow

>>1483776
I thought yall were trying to argue an egalitarian position here.

>>1483772

Ok so the US has less economic mobility then socialist countries and overall worse outcomes.

Your only argument against it is: I fall into the better half so I don't want you to change it.

It's not a compelling argument, I will advocate for what ever is best for me and that may be directly at odds with what's good for you.

>>1483755
America. Recently during the obama administration. Maybe you should broaden your horizons from /biz/ and /pol/ maybe read a book or a newspaper

>>1483755
>what if we went to the extremes
Why would we do that? Im asking for marginal increase in quality of life. Not for everyone to have a ferarri

>>1483787
I'm asking how you believe that will affect things in the big picture

>>1483784
Within the bounds of morality. What gives you the right to demand things of people who rightfully earned or inherited wealth?

>>1483767
>save the people from themselves
But thats just it man. This is a society. You have to think outside your personal desires. I dont need a hospital to be built 500 miles away but ill be happy to pay taxes for one. Just because a person can survive on week old lentils doesnt mean they should have to. If youre willing to work 40 hrs a week and contribute to society you deserve to know you can afford living expenses. Whatever man thats my thesis. You autists have at it with how you can save money by shitting in public restrooms or whatever and proles are scum

>>1483796
Settle down Bernie Sanders

There won't be a class war anytime soon

>>1483796
Don't take the ball home; we were having fun.

>>1483773
I can see the argument for inflation even if i dont agree with it. What i dont understand is how unemployment will rise. What employer is hiring two employees when he only needs one? He does this out of the kindness of his heart? Shit I thought this was a business board

itt:
>WHY DON'T YOU JUST GET RICH? LMAO

>>1483801
>What employer is hiring two employees when he only needs one? He does this out of the kindness of his heart? Shit I thought this was a business board

Can you watch the video on the page i linked about?

About how the minimum wage hurts workers? It explains this exact question.

>>1483790

They profited from a system propped up by many other people, it's not their wealth but the accumulated efforts of society as a whole.

If they disagree I believe society should remove all protections provided to them, it's unlikely they will keep their wealth for very long.

>>1483808
>If they disagree I believe society should remove all protections provided to them, it's unlikely they will keep their wealth for very long.

I think we can agree finally.

Indeed the government should have no intervention in the market besides ensuring certain health regulations. They should ineed not keep their wealth if they cannot compete in the free market

>>1483808
I agree, corporate welfare is anti competitive. The big boys should not get special privileges and be kept afloat on tax payer money or through printing. It's like we're paying our competition to keep competing with us.

>>1483788
But its a false equivelency. Raising min wage to $50 would effect almost 75% of the population compared to 4%.

>>1483462
I've come to tell you the irony that you are an idiot

>a shirt folder at the Gap
Right, because they let retail workers do just one thing like all fucking day. I'm too fucking exhausted to explain to you how stupid you are.

>>1483802
Git gud proles

>>1483810
>>1483809

You don't get it.

>>1483802
just b yourself, f a m

>>1483805
You mean the one that nobel winning economists refute? Seriously where is all this unecessary labor?

>>1483757
>This post is not constructive.

According to you.

*Because comparing cooking one single steak is = specialized training and experience and earning a degree in college for a job that's in actual demand in society.

Listen here bub, the type of food you make at home =/= to the ones made in gourmet restaurants, especally when said restaurants hav their own secret ingredients too which they don't share with competitors.

But go on, keep making yourself look neurotypical, embarassing yourself by debating with someone who has actual insight into the industry. (My wife works in said industry) I myself an investor.

>>1483821
>keep making yourself look nurotypical
o I am laffin
Did you just "NORMIES REEEE!!" me?

>>1483812
>retail workers do just one thing
my nigga. they do tho.

Just do a survey in your local mall. Its a tie between, sneaking facebook updates and responding to texts and folding shit.

Aww is the thread dying? I was lovin the bantz

>>1483757

Also my post isn't even about urging to raise the minimum wage just like these other posters, it's the fact that you idiots classify actual professional chefs and culinary workers on the same level as fastfood and foodstand workers. I'm commenting to tell your Autists that the two are completely different professions. One requires years of cllege and study, AND* is an actual useful job in demand, the other isn't.

Of course I agree that the market decides the value of said worker though, and that oversaturating the market with people from a certain type of profession would lead to lesser demand. But let's not get stupid here and start generalizing one profession, to a shitty job.

>>1483827
>lets not make sweeping generalizations for the purpose of your narrative
Wheres the fun in that

>>1483828

There is no fun in copying marxist level tactics, are you some Reddit/TumblrFag?

>>1483827
I aint done that no how, massa, I swears!

>>1483827
>it's the fact that you idiots classify actual professional chefs and culinary workers on the same level as fastfood and foodstand workers. I'm commenting to tell your Autists that the two are completely different professions. One requires years of cllege and study, AND* is an actual useful job in demand, the other isn't.

We aren't though.

you knew what we meant perfectly, no one is comparing Gordon Ramsay to some mcdonalds frycook. You're kind of nitpicking because it's quite clear what was meant

>>1483737
Just as dumb as I knew it would be. Why was the boss hiring three cooks when it could be ran by two? Where did those 90 burgers an hour go? Tupperware?

>>1483835

>Encompasses everything from line cooks at >fuckin' Applebees to Gordon fucking Ramsey. >The former are little more than brainless >automatons.

Applebee's is not fastfood (and I made doubly sure to google check it as well) A line cook from Applebee's is obviously different from a line cook in McDonalds. One had to be specially trained in culinary school, other just went to the manager and asked for a job.

>>1483840
>missing the point this hard

>>1483840
Lol do you actually believe that?

The retards at just about every restaurant besides Michelin rated is a meme staffed by mental retards

>>1483815
What did he mean by this?

>>1483842
It depends on what country the Applebee's is at, maybe there in America it's probably shit (I'm from Asia), and when I went for a vacation to Dubai it looked and functioned just like any other gourmet resto.

>>1483840
Applebees cooks are not trained culinary chefs lol. Most of them are felons dude. Lol whered you hear this shit?

>>1483846

Check my previous post
>>1483845

>>1483847
I dont care where youre from. Its a cookie cutter chain restaurant. Are you seriously retarded? Or have you just never been to a nice restaurant?

>>1483846
>Most of them are felons dude

This.

I've worked in multiple kitchens before and all the employees there are brainless felons or just other rejects of society. It's actually a little startling the people we entrust to cook our food sometimes

Yeah, I always see Naggers at Applebee's. Def not culinary trained. But at Wendy's its tradition to weight your dick on the patty scale.

>>1483848

>Its a cookie cutter chain restaurant

Forgetting the fact that even international chain restaurants aren't all the same in terms of quality and the food they serve.

Probably never left his respective country.

>>1483852
>But at Wendy's its tradition to weight your dick on the patty scale

i-i... wouldn't be surprised to be totally honest

>>1483383
>There still isn't broad public support for a job guarantee program (aka employed buffer stock to replace unemployment buffer stock)
>There is growing support for UBI (aka libertarian welfare for the rich)
>Americans would rather run scared to unimaginative, corrupt, lesser-evil leaders than elect what their country and planet actually needs
>Current year

these jobs are basically unskilled, anyone who went to trade school and took a nonmeme course can earn more than them

>>1483887
thanks professor

>>1483385
What about me? Im the "personal care aid". Im i worth anything in your eyes?

Your wage goes up as your skills become more rare and required. Anyone can work retail, anyone can be a food prep chimp, but not many people can lead a Fortune 500 company to an acceptable degree.

>>1483623

>The point is this is a first world country and working adults should be entitled to a

No. You don't understand this world. You're not entitled to anything except to be left alone. This is why you and your kind crash and burn so hard, as the world punches and kicks you relentlessly all you try doing is asking for it to be kinder to you, but it is deaf to your foolish cries.

>>1483811

A raise of 25 cents effects the whole economy you fucking retard

>>1483781

Man you are fucking retarded. Minimum wage is government infringing on the free market, which is socialist.

>>1483692
Tupperware you mongchild.

Also Cooks just make themselves lunch right on the spot.

Get a togo soup container put days soup in bowl. Sip as you go. Add bits into cup as the day goes on. Never hungry. Never dehydrated. Performance BOOOST

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3A_XGyZYG8

File: Endless Suffering.webm (835KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

835KB, 1280x720px

>>1483753
You need a degree to work at a proper restaurant like Applebees

> Need
> Work
> Proper
> Restaurant

>>>/r9k

>people still believe completely free and unregulated markets will somehow shit out a better standard of living in an age of highly-successful fiat money and quantitative easing

People are dumb and irrational, and therefore free markets are inefficient

>>1484600

>standard of living meme

It's about ideals. A society with no ideals dies eventually. The free market is revered like a god by those who value liberty and private property. Those who believe all actions between adults should be consenting are a fan of the free market.

The socialists believe that all humans should be treated like livestock, and you can see how that turns out for them.

>>1483578
>How is that a difficult job? I could do it myself
sure you could anon

>>1484485
O ya i forgot that the preamble of the declaration of independence said that. My bad

>>1484510
that's the point

>>1484510
Ya it would stimulate it as poor people would have more to spend/rely less on government programs

>>1484514
The government already does that dude. Lol youre embarrassing yourself stop karl

>>1484626

That doesn't justify it

>>1484622
>>1484623

The minimum wage is a government program. It devalues the non-gold backed fiat currency, which affects savings of everyone (mostly middle class). The increase in pay, if we forget about the jobs lost/automated/less hours working, would eventually be the same that they had before as the dollar devalues. It's impossible to tamper with an abstract concept like the economy and get the results you want in the long term. Government interference should be kept at a minimum, it should mostly just ensure that private contracts are carried out. I would recommend you move to Venezuala or Germany if you love a nanny state and hate personal property.

>>1484632

With this being said, I would love to discuss a meaningful topic about government interference, like if it should ensure our kids have a clean environment to live in, and how far it should go. But over and over, people only want to discuss busted socialist concepts that have been disproven. Please get some real world experience in socialist countries and try to understand the abstract concept of a market before forcefully imposing your will on innocent people.

>>1484468
Still no answer for this, that's funny..

>>1484637

You are worth what someone will pay you

>>1484632
So move to a country without government regulation

>>1484667

Government taxes plane tickets so I won't buy one

>>1484670
So walk faggot

>>1484621

>declaration of independence

I don't give a shit about your hypocritical American fag scroll from 500 years ago.

>>1484670

Government taxes footwear, I refuse to buy shoes.

>ITT: /biz/ shows their 'tism
It's like none of you have ever had to make ends meet.
I hope you all end up impoverished. I seriously think /biz/ is full of trust fund babbies and neets who live in mommys basement without having to worry about rent/bills.

>>1484742
Nah we just have good jobs because we aren't retards

>>1483745
Same reason the cleaners at my office don't know how to put toilet paper on, and I do.
I am paid 4x what they make because I can do their job better than them whilst they can't do theirs properly and they certainly can't do mine.

>>1484742
We shouldn't let naive sympathy lead us down an impractical path.

>>1484698
Then leave america

>>1484701
>needing shoes to walk
Pussy

>>1484761
You realize everyone in america cant have a great job right? The working class exists no matter how l33t you think you are

>>1484818

Can't get to a country without socialism from America without passing through government land, anyways. We are all slaves.

>>1484821
Yes, but the top of any profession is decently rewarded - great chefs, tradesmen who work hard and get better at their jobs move on to open small businesses and grow them etc

Even a cleaner can build up to running a cleaning business.

I know a Turkish immigrant in the UK who started working at a call centre and within 10 years started getting 200k/year contracts to consult overseas companies on how to build call centres.

So there it is. Ambition will get you money, no matter where you start.

>>1484829
Kill yourself

>>1484830
Are you saying we can eliminate the working class if we all work hard? Are you retarded? There will always be someone working for minimum. Even if you promoted all those janitors to captain of sanitation or whatever your faggot plan is there are thousands more entering the work force tomoro. There will ALWAYS be a working class.

>>1484839

Government taxes ammunition. I'm lucky I'm using GNU on my laptop or I couldn't post here.

>>1484846
Yes, because some people are comfortable with min wage, or students, or need the experience, or too lazy or too stupid to make it above it, and that's fine.

The system in 1st world countries works - you can move up if you have what it takes.

>>1484848
Gnaw through your own wrists

>leftypol still going strong
You sleep last night, famm?

>>1483383
All those people have computers, HDTVs, iphones, new cars, and they can eat out, drink, go to the movies, theme parks, etc. pretty much whenever they want.

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>>1484853
>some people are comfortable on min wage
The entire point is that isnt possible. I know being a NEET its hard for you to grasp the concept of paying bills like rent food and utilities but its a reality for most people

>>1484858
>leftypol
Im actually very conservative. I just dont think the idea that working 40hrs a week and living on that is a rediculous concession

>>1484821
>You realize everyone in america cant have a great job right?

Exactly, so there needs to be poor plebs and rich people.

We chose to not be the poor plebs. Simple as that

>>1484848
>. I'm lucky I'm using GNU on my laptop or I couldn't post here.

But is the laptop made using non-proprietary parts in a non-proprietary factory?

>>1484905
Raising the minimum wage a dollar wouldnt destroy classes you ignorant fuck. You think people can get rich off 9$ an hour?

>>1484909
start a business senpai lmao idc

>>1484895
Hah, nice assumption about my lifestyle.

Plenty of people are comfortable on min wage when running a cost-benefit analysis and don't deem it worthwhile use of their free time to improve themselves and keep advancing (talking about the UK specifically).

>>1484910
What the fuck are you even talking about?

Lets be honest about why you faggots are so against minimum wage. None of you are business owners. None of you head up a multi million dollar corporation whos bottom line would be threatened. You just enjoy feeling superior to "the dirty plebs" You make $34,000 a year!! Youre so much smarter than some idiot whod work for $7.25. But if that was raised to $10? Oh shit now hes not as far below me as he used to be. But how can this be? Im so much smarter than him!! And Im not lazy!! Lifes not fair!!!

Youre all just a bunch of insecure fucks who want to deny a working citizen of their own county a livable wage to maintain their own unwarranted feelings of superiority when theyre just as much a cog in the greater workings of society. Or maybe youre just so stupid you buy into the myth perpetuated by the elite that it would destroty the economy idk

>>1484931
Well obviously ive been arguing about american minimum wage. I have no idea what it is in in the UK

>>1484935
>But how can this be? Im so much smarter than him!! And Im not lazy!! Lifes not fair!!!

That isn't the case though, the person whining and crying here is you and people like you.

You're literally doing what you just wrote out.
>HOW CAN THIS BE, I'M JUST AS VALUABLE AS THOSE LAZY EXECUTIVES. LIFE'S NOT FAIR! WHY AM I NOT PAID MORE!!!

>Youre all just a bunch of insecure fucks who want to deny a working citizen of their own county a livable wage to maintain their own unwarranted feelings of superiority when theyre just as much a cog in the greater workings of society

lol hit too close to home?

look up dunning kruger

>>1484935
Don't get emotional.

From retail to Fortune 500 companies, overhead is the biggest expense and it is meticulously calculated (the lower level the job, the least leeway), and hours are cut and people are sacked. I've worked in both. When I was working a min wage job at a pub, the way to make sure I'll make a living was to work hard and get given the most hours. It's a pretty neat system actually, meritocracy worked great.
And because I wanted a better lifestyle, I kept on moving forward (ofc I had the brains and the grit). Others preferred to flirt with customers for tips and to wait for the council to give them a flat so they can move out at the age of 27.

>>1484939
>as valuable as lazy executives
Dude im not saying give everyone in america 6 figure salaries. Its a marginal bump to a small percentage of the working class. 96% of people would be unaffected. Are you really this fucking dense?

>>1484947
>pub
>flat
go away britain im talking about america here

>>1484949
>96% of people would be unaffected.

What makes you believe this?

Wouldn't you also need to raise wages across the board because that guy who got a $1 raise from minimum wage for working hard at Burger King for 5 years is going to be PRETTY unhappy when that's the new baseline for new employees. Wouldn't you say?

Besides, how much do you honestly believe a $1 minimum wage raise would help people(as you've previously said)?

>>1484815

>>I don't give a shit about *YOUR* hypocritical American fag scroll from 500 years ago.
>Then leave america

Didn't that give you a hint that I'm not fucking in Clapistan you massive cretin? Do you actually breathe from your mouth? Off yourself right now my friend, you're literally retarded.

>>1484958
>What makes you believe 96% wont be affected?
The bureau of labor statistics has 1.3 million people are currently at federal minimum. I thought adding another 12 million was a very conservative estimate but you seem to disagree?

>that guy who got a $1 raise from minimum wage for working hard at Burger King for 5 years is going to be PRETTY unhappy
Ya hell probably be bummed out. But whats he gonna do? Quit?

>how much do you honestly believe a $1 minimum wage raise would help people
about $2000 worth

>>1484973
Dude you came into a thread where people are discussing american politics and gave your opinion. I assumed you were american

>>1484982
>about $2000 worth

? Wouldn't a $1 increase if they're working 40 hrs a week only be about $160/month additional? That seems alright but certainly not a gamechanger for most people.

>Ya hell probably be bummed out. But whats he gonna do? Quit?

So you don't care about those guys? You come from a moral imperative direction saying "People who work 40 hours a week shouldn't go hungry in this country!". But now your response is "Fuck that guy who worked hard for years just to get a $1 raise".

Shouldn't we help him by raising his wage by $1 additionally to even it out? Seems like a logistical nightmare with all the raises companies will have to give

>>1484982
>I thought adding another 12 million was a very conservative estimate but you seem to disagree?

I'm saying it's all intertwined?

There's quite a few jobs like paramedics that make only a little bit over minimum wage for all the hard work they do saving lives. Seems a little unjust to be cucking them by making a mcdonalds frycook who just got hired earn even closer to them

>>1484987
40 hours a week 52 weeks a year is 2080. 2000 is a lot of money when youre living on a razor budget. Thats the whole point. Its a very small concession but it would help the ones who need it.
>So you don't care about those guys?
No. If were agreeing that a hypothetical $1 raise would take those on minimum wage to a livable space then thats the objective. Its not about protection some faggots feelings. If he wants more thats good. America is opportunity go chase it. But my point is that the lowest rung should still be able to live with moderate comfort

>>1484989
see >>1484935

>>1484632
>It devalues the non-gold backed fiat currency,
stopped reading there. It's useless to discuss with gold-obsessed lolbertarians. You have literally no idea how the economy works, it would be like speaking to a wall.

>>1484997
>see >>1484935

That doesn't answer my question

Do you believe that people earning only a little bit over minimum wage should get further wage increases? It seems like you're completely neglecting them

>If were agreeing that a hypothetical $1 raise would take those on minimum wage to a livable space then thats the objective. Its not about protection some faggots feelings

So those people who earn only a little bit more are "faggots" who don't matter? I don't really understand this, you start off trying to be compassionate and speak morally but then you just spit all over a group of people not much more privileged than the minimum wage workers

>>1485002
>Do you believe that people earning only a little bit over minimum wage should get further wage increases?
No. I think youre completely missing the point of why minimum wage exists.
>spit all over a group
im not spitting on anyone. If theyre earning a wage thats enough to live comfortably on then good for them. Some people dont have that luxury tho and thats the entire point im trying to make

>>1483767
It's not to save people from themselves, it's to save them from people who will pay them as little as they can possibly get away with.

>>1483790
>rightfully [...] inherited wealth
top lol, get your trust fund ass out of here, this discussion is for real people

>>1483383
thanks Obama

>>1484855

Government taxes dentistry work, I lost my teeth a long time ago.

>>1484907

It's some sticks I found on my property and a solar panel I bought privately hooked up to a 10 year old Somalian PC I smuggled into the country.

>>1483808

Inheritance is actually their wealth. A person (parent) decided to give his private property to another person (child.) It isn't some evil act, it is a private transaction between two adult consenting parties.

>>1485443
ya im saying we should raise the tax on that

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>>1485445

Does the federal government have a right to take someone's private property without their consent, and then use it on inefficient programs that they don't agree with?

>>1485469
are we talking about estate tax now? the persons dead how the fuck can he agree or disagree or consent to anything

>>1485484

If I die is it ok if someone steals all my shit, despite my will saying that I want all of it to go to my son? I mean, I'm dead. I would have no way of consenting to anything right?

>>1483483
Exactly. It's not how hard you work. It's about how much value you provide someone or something who is able and willing to pay. Fucking retards still can't understand this.

>>1485519
it wouldnt be your shit anymore. if somebody stole my great grandpas pocketwatch that i keep they wouldnt call him to the stand. they call me
>taxation is the same as stealing
the expatriate tax is less than the estate. go live in the andes and die there for all i care. if youre here benefiting from american citizenship then you are expected to pay taxes

>>1485469
yes, it's called eminent domain.

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>>1485554

Grandson... I'm about... to die... I want you to have my grandfather's pocketwatch... It's... It's... a family heirloom...

*friendly neighborhood PoC liberates it from his house right after he dies*

Well, I know he wanted me to take it, but he just died! I hope Tyrone enjoys my great-great-grandfather's most prized possession!

>>1485566

I'm receiving no compensation for my contribution. LaQueesha is taking her welfare check while I can't even get my honor student son into an Ivy League because he isn't oppressed enough. Taxation without compensation.

>>1485571
>Taxes are literally stealing
>Tax reform is literally socialism
>OP is literally pol pot

>>1485579
your son can easily apply for fafsa and take subsidized loans out. stop acting like only black people benefit from government programs. if youre really so jealous of that $200 a month welfare check then quit your job and chase that dream

>>1485580

You aren't actually arguing anything I've said, but that's ok. You were born into a system that is corrupt, and can not reevaluate it. I don't blame you for using the government to steal from people who work, I only think you are a deluded coward. Just get a gun and do it yourself, at least.

>>1485587
You didnt say anything of value. You made up a queer little story about a watch being stolen by a nigger attached it to bernie sanders while I was trying to have a serious discussion on the minimum wage. What is there to argue?
"No i actually still have the watch"

>>1485586

The Ivy League as diversity quotas. He's too white to get in.

>>1485600

You can't actually justify thievery besides saying "It's always been this way!" or "Just move!"

If all my family is in my small town, and a local gang starts extorting me and the police won't do anything about it, should I just move? Does that make it ok? Surely there must be some middle ground between moving or killing the gang?

>>1485607
So youd want the police to stop them? The same police force being funded by tax dollars? Interesting

>>1485634

It's the best analogy I can come up with in a couple minutes. You can pick at details but that doesn't actually have any bearing on the message. People need to benefit if they are paying taxes. If I'm not benefiting, why shouldn't I start shell corporations or an offshore bank account, or tumble some bitcoins? You can say, that only applies to the ultra rich! But I'm inheriting quite a lot of money soon, and will get no benefit from the high taxes I pay now, and the higher taxes I'll pay when I inherit it. Should I start a business and provide jobs while being fucked on taxes? Or find ways to avoid the taxes? Do you begin to understand what I'm saying?

Minimum wage plays into this as well. Should I start a business and give back to the community? Will I have to pay my part time janitors a ridiculous amount of money? Will I have to pay my workers even more as minimum wage keeps climbing every election cycle?

>>1485634
>>1485669

This'll be my last post for the night. We obviously don't share the same ideals, so I hope my more practical questions can help you see my perspective. Thank you for engaging me, though I wish you would attempt to make an argument that was meaningful and not calling me an idiot or deflecting. If you want to do something like defend raising the minimum wage, I would suggest you bring a better reason than "some economists agreed with it, and people need a living wage."

>>1485669
>People need to benefit if they are paying taxes
But you do man. Every time you drive down a road. Or feel safe knowing murderers are imprisoned and theres fire and police protection minutes away. You probably went to a public school. And in less tangible ways like research from state universities and military contracts. You are part of a society. You cant just pick and choose what services you want and the elite shouldnt get a free ride just because theyre more powerful

>>1485688

A person on welfare pays $0 and gets all those benefits plus welfare and government grants for being a black female and having 6 kids. Where as I'm paying over 30% of my income and getting those benefits and paying her income while getting no grants and my son is discriminated against for not being a minority when applying to schools. A social contract should involve equal contribution for services like roads and prisons if we get equal benefit, but there is unequal contribution. This is the driving factor to making rich people avoid taxes and not reinvest in the economy. I want to start a small business with a business model that would include a couple workers who I would pay around $12-13 an hour. Will I do that if I have to pay them $15? What about $20? I don't think you understand that I am not asking for an end to the social contract, but am asking why you think this will possibly benefit society and not lower incentive for competition.

>>1483490
It isn't the market that pays cooks minimum wage salaries. The market actually pays restaurants great money, that's why there are so many restaurants that are successful, it's an easy market to emulate and succeed in. It is employers that determine these wages because they pay the absolute minimum they can feasibly get away with, if an employer was cooking himself and just happened to also own the restaurant and his pay was based on what business comes through the door you would be shocked at the wage of a cook according to the "free market"

>>1485697
>pays 0 percent
ill ignore that blatant lie for a minute. If youre really so jealous of lequesha then have 6 kids and get a shittier job. Who the fuck is stopping you?
>my son is discriminated against
Your wifes son is not discriminated against for being white. Get off 4chan man and go outside. If he has half a brain hell have no problem going to school.
>A social contract should involve equal contribution
So because you know one black family in abject poverty everyone should be set to your standard? Then 0 taxes would get paid. What kind of fucking system is that you retard
>am asking why you think this will not lower incentive for competition
Because people will always want success. You could tax 99% income and thered still be people working there ass off to make their 1% bigger than yours. Its human nature. The fact that you are sitting here implying people will stop starting businesses or stop trying to accumulate wealth if the minimum wage is slightly higher is so much fucking delusion I pray youre a troll

>>1483578
You've obviously never ran a company, it has nothing to do with "difficulty". I own a sprinkler fitting company, I have never had it easier in my life than I do now, I used to personally install sprinklers now I get paid to delegate work to other journeymen and receive more money for delegating the work than the journeyman receives for actually doing the work. Difficulty does not equate to pay gradient.

>>1485709
>>am asking why you think this will not lower incentive for competition
>Because people will always want success. You could tax 99% income and thered still be people working there ass off to make their 1% bigger than yours. Its human nature. The fact that you are sitting here implying people will stop starting businesses or stop trying to accumulate wealth if the minimum wage is slightly higher is so much fucking delusion I pray youre a troll
the section of that argument that's usually left unspoken is that they think business-owners and business-creators will move out of the country-- which is moderately compelling if true, but not extremely compelling, and I for one don't think it's true

>>1485709

It's not delusional at all, less upper-middle class people will compete with franchises by making a small business and will either hoard their wealth or just go into stocks/etf's/mutual funds. Yes, people always want success. But you must already have success to start a business. Why try if I can just rest on my laurels?

Every white person is discriminated against. Diversity quotas that don't even match population statistics fuck over whites. It's state-funded racism.

>what kind of system is that

I don't really follow, but let me explain. The economy will collapse eventually under the weight of the useless. Look at Germany. We will see them collapse in the next 25 years if they keep taking in a million refugees a year. None of them have jobs and all of them are on benefits. Good night, thanks for the discussion. I'll talk to you later on lefty-pol.

>>1483385
trustfundfag detected

>>1485744
You realize that without diversity quotas schools would be mostly Asian?

>>1485744
Bro when your example of why youre right is something that hasnt happened your argument is fundamentally flawed

>>1485697
Except you are looking at the immediate tangible "handouts" from the government and direct benefits via infastructure on a micro scale. If you take a step back and consider that we have a consumer based economy you would realize that infastructure and handouts actually tend to move upwards. You don't make money in business if there is no capital in the marketplace in order for your services to be consumed. The better the infastructure there more fluidity available to make a successful business happen. All those welfare queens and idiots riding the public bus using the roads to get to the malls are the majority of the people buying useless shit that they don't need to make business minded people rich. Every metric of these transactions are taxed and refed back into the economy in one way or another or mismanaged and wasted. The better the efficiency in re guards to infastructure, the more of an economic return seen in the market. Government spending and tax reduction are both expansionary, however spending with efficiency is deemed more expansionary.

>>1485697
>A social contract should involve equal contribution for services like roads and prisons if we get equal benefit, but there is unequal contribution.
not sure about prisons, but roads in the US are paid for with a tax on gasoline and diesel. So the people that use the roads most pay the most.

there is no poor-person exemption from this tax. The only way to reduce your payment is to use less fuel which generally means using the roads less.

local roads are a different story, that's usually a straight property tax covering the part the feds and state don't kick in. But people that don't own property presumably drive less than those that do.

Hi guys. Cook here, in Los Angeles. Some of the things you people say are full of hate. Why would someone be subhuman for having a stable, amazingly fun, and creative job?

Started at 9/hr 3 years ago and now I'm making 16/hr. Ive worked closely with Gordan Ramsey and many other great Chefs. I'm in charge of feeding thousands of people at some of the west coasts most popular events i.e Cochella/Stage coach (if you went and ate there I probably was responsible for feeding you), Aspen Film Festival (Spike Lee seems to respect what I do even if y'all don't) and personally cooked for Christina Agularia at her house. Ive been national TV a few times and am super proud of the various awards and accomplishments my staff and I have acquired over the years. At my fancy ass restaurant Ive gotten my buddies laid so many times because they come in and get some VIP as fuck service and you just look fucking cool when servers, hosts, bartenders etc. are acting like your bitch and bringing you and your date food and booze all night. Its a life style thing.

A lot led up to this. Been solo/dolo since early teens and had to feed myself, so naturally cooking became a daily thing for me. Since been trained by professional Chefs and can do all sorts of amazing shit that makes chicks (fucking fine ass ones) want to fuck me.
Its about that pay ceiling tho.
I'm almost done with a BS from a pretty awesomely ranked Uni. Currently taking calc 2 and with the parties, celebs, drugs, events, and t.v spots its tough to maintain it all but its a lot of fun.

Not everyone in the world has precisely the same opportunity just handed to them. Some of us have to fucking kill it just to seem "normal" because of things like race and socioeconomic issues. But like mother fucking Booker T. Washington said "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome."

I love you guys tho. Thanks for all yeas of awesomeness.

>>1486244
How the hell are you only making 16 dollars an hour then? I made that much working at a retirement home in college.

>>1483623
You do realize that the moment you enforce price controls (and the minimum wage is a clear cut example of a price control) the end result is that less people are employed.

I don't know what your idea of a "livable wage" is, but I can guarantee you it's not "zero", yet that is exactly what you are proposing.

>>1485566
Eminent domain is not taking it is often paying for the property at a premium to its valuation.

>>1486244
You're wasting your breath. Its been r9k tier here since like a year ago.

>>1485946
And why is that a bad thing? If they do good then they should be awarded as much as their efforts.

*secretly incites Venezuelan protests to destroy the last bastion of ideologically pure socialism*
>that crypto-industrialist feel when

>>1486244
>personally cooked for Christina Agularia
I just talked to Christina, and she's kind of upset you couldn't even spell her name right.

>>1486598
Except it's not. Property is purposely undervalued so that corporations can use the government to steal it. Don't believe me? Try to get your property value lowered to reduce your tax bill. Won't happen in a million years. But let some rich cocksucker decide he wants it without paying like an adult...

>>1486667
>>1486667
This


>>1485946
No not really it would be mostly white because white people make up the large majority of the population.

"Diversity quotas" or more appropriately racism should not be implemented by any government agency or public school system. Private school systems can do whatever they want.

>>1483753
>accurately measuring
>without measuring

Guessing is not a skill.