Legality of using gold coins to avoid taxes.

>>1429073
so you want to buy a 30000$ car with 1050$ worth of gold? why on earth would any car dealer do that?

here OP, this was required reading as part of my zerohedge zealot training

http://fff.org/2013/12/09/the-u-s-vs-robert-kahre-a-horrific-miscarriage-of-justice/

>>1429083
No.

It's 30,000$ worth of gold

but it's 1050$ of legal tender.

The gold mapleleaf has a legal tender value of 50$ for some retarded reason, I want to exploit this.

>>1429086
Could they do this in Canada though?

>>1429087
typically dealers cannot go below a certain point from MSRP

if you're talking used cars then absolutely they would like this idea.

>>1429083

you are a stupid wagecuck!

>>1429092

sorry dont know leaf law

>>1429087
Wat.

Canadabro just take like six months of paycheck to the bank if one oz of gold is $50 bucks in coinage.

>Sell gold in US
>Take profits to get more coins
>Repeat until they either make it illegal or you've made it.

Bitcoin's what u want, op

Also

>Spending 30k on a car

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>>1429118

>>1429118
No to buy the coin it will cost me about 1400$ or whatever gold is now.

But the gold coin is 50$ of legal tender.

Like I could go buy 50$ of groceries and they would HAVE to accept my 1 oz gold coin because it is legal tender.

but I wouldn't do that because that would be retarded i'd be giving up 1400$ worth of gold for 50$ of groceries.

BUT if a used car dealer sells me a 30,000$ car for 1050$ and I pay him in 21 gold coins he then has 30,000$ worth of gold but only has to put down 1050$ when he files his income tax.

Additionally I only have to pay the 12% sales tax on 1050$ rather than 30,000$

>>1429073
>>1429087

if this holds true then you could take a 100 dollar bill to the bank and exchange it for 100 dollars of legal tender in the form of these "gold maple leaf" coins and reap huge profits for nothing.

repeat process indefinitely.

there's obviously some type of roadblock here that isnt being mentioned. These coins are not legally being treated as a 50 dollar value in financial transactions.

>>1429124
to follow along the what if scenario here:

-you buy car with the "legal tender" value of the coins, which hides the true value of the transaction you two just had.
-at some point the car dealer will try to convert the coins into "true value" via gold exchange or whatever
-at this point he will have to report the spike of profit he just made
-this has to be reported in taxes

but again, if your theory was correct, then a bank -could not- refuse you if you walked in and said i want 100 dollars worth of legal tender value in the form of your gold maple leaf coins. If it is truly a respected form of currency with that value according to canadian law, they -cannot- charge you more for it than the 50 dollar price

so there's absolutely something in place to stop this.

I'm fairly certain other "collector coins" are like this as well and things like "US quarters made out of pure gold!" get made and sold and technically their value should be 25 cents, but obviously that is not accurate and thus they are not dealt with in such a way.

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>>1429125
you can only buy gold coins special order from the mint or on gold markets. They are sold with a premium which is more than "melt value". these coins are not circulated. and if some idiot gave it to the bank they would snatch it up. banks are not required to exchange monies.

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>>1429073

>tfw no one can answer the question

>>1429151
/pol/ answered the question already.

just shows that /biz/ is stupid as fuck.

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>>1429125
>banks have unlimited source of gold coins
>banks have to give you said gold coins well under their market value

>>1429184
Link to answer?

>a
>fucking
>leaf
Go and try it

>>1429130
Once a coins metal value surpasses its face value they get minted with differrent metal(s). The old coins are still legal tender. For instance the US the penny was once made of copper but is now made of zinc because copper became more expensive yet you can still use copper pennies. So you can't exchange 100 CAD to gold maple leafs because banks don't have them since they're no longer being minted.

>>1429489
You've already been linked to [http://fff.org/2013/12/09/the-u-s-vs-robert-kahre-a-horrific-miscarriage-of-justice/]. For a less biased source try [http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f25b0a20-89ad-42b6-a156-21d97fa71a93]. Kahre got a 15-year sentence for something similar to your idea. Additionally, see [https://www.irs.gov/uac/four-things-to-know-about-bartering-1].

In total, the IRS isn't stupid, and this is very clearly tax evasion. If you trade using goods or services (rather than dollars), then you need to use the fair market value of the goods or services to determine tax.

>>1429879
For Canada, you can look at [http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tp/it490/it490-e.html]. The same rules seem to apply.

>>1429073
Don't know leaf law, but smells like tax evasion.

Generally, in all first-world countries, when you use the law to obtain an advantage that is formally legal, but sounds really too good to be legal... it's almost always illegal (especially when we're talking about taxes).

Anyway, never do this kind of things before asking a competent professional before.

>>1429086
15 years for tax evasion to the sum of a few thousand dollars

Armed robbery gets less jail time

I would think this wouldnt work because you would have to think about it like this. The reported price of the car being sold would have to be $30,000. so you would have to give him 30,000$ in legal tender which would mean you would have to give him 600 of the 50$ gold ounces to total 30k (600x50=30k) which would be over three quarters of a million dollars in actual gold value.. thats how I would understand it

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>>1429125
The coins hold legal tender status in that the US and Canadian governments aren't allowed to mint coins that don't hold a monetary value (I believe this also applies to all of the Commonwealth, but I'm not certain.)

No bank is going to have a Maple on hand (or an Eagle, if you're Murrican.) No banker with any integrity will take a Maple or Eagle for its face value.

>CSB:I was working for Wachovia as a part time teller, and a dude brought in a $50 gold cert, wanted to deposit it. I told him that it's antique money, well worth more than the $50 he wanted. Wouldn't listen, I deposited it for him then bought it immediately out of my drawer.

>MFW got it graded (VF20) and sold it on eBay for $1070

>>1429124
Belgian law forbids to sell lower than what you bought in for. If the same goes for leaf country, it would mean that a cardealer who bought a car for 5,000 can't sell it for 1,000.

>>1429092
Im pretty sure they would just audit you and then send you a notice saying how much tax you owe etc

>>1430321
Ironic. They are literally robbing people to pay tax and then put them in jail for longer than armed robbers for not being victims to robbery.

DON'T TREAD ON ME!

>>1429073
> Hey man I want to buy this car but I want to pay in these gold coins
No way, how do I know they're not stolen? Get out of here.