Quitting a minimum wage job you hate

>>1332463
What the fuck happened to her arm?

If it's a minimum wage job they'll probably just tell you to GTFO once you tell them you're quitting. They likely have hundreds of potential replacements and want to get a jump start on training them.

Leave a notice like a decent human being. We had two people quit with no notice within a few hours of each other last year (I'm a cashier). It was awful trying to fill in the gaps and clean the mess those fuckers left behind for us to deal with.

>>1332534
>We had two people quit with no notice within a few hours of each other last year (I'm a cashier). It was awful trying to fill in the gaps and clean the mess those fuckers left behind for us to deal with

Really huh?

What about "filling the gaps" or "cleaning the mess left behind" when you get fired?

if they wouldn't give you a "two week notice" before firing us, why should we give them a two week notice before quitting?

You just stop showing up. That's it. The "2 weeks notice" is for people with actual jobs (i.e. salaried people).

>>1332487
you are so sheltered....

its a heroine infected arm, from injecting so many times

>>1332597
>You just stop showing up

Really? Seems kinda messed up, wouldn't they start calling and asking where the fuck you went?

Seems like a good way to piss them off...

>>1332463
If you don't want to use them as a reference just tell them you quit. You could be cowardly about it and send them an e-mail or text or something the day before so they can find someone to fill your space for the day.

2 week notice isn't mandatory, it's a courtesy. if your boss is an asshole and it's a shit paying job they have to accept sometimes people just leave.

Just give your two weeks out of courtesy. It's always better to be on your former employer's good side. If your job you're going for fails, you're much more likely to have something to fall back on, or if someone else applies there knows you, they at least have a good reference. That is, if you aren't a shitcunt of an employee.

Plus it can be nightmarish to get people to fill in.

The company I work for doesn't rehire people who quit because my boss said if they couldn't retain you the first time they don't take a chance on you again. Should I still put in a 2 weeks notice if I decide to quit?

>>1332617
It's makeup

>>1333440
Your life is long and the world is small. Don't burn bridges without a good reason.

>>1333454
Forgot to mention the company doesn't even give references because it's their policy not to...

I'm cool with my coworkers and they would reference me though.

>>1332463
If you've barely worked there it doesn't matter. If you ever think you're going to need your minimum wage job as a reference, you're fucked.

Quit NOW! Enjoy a week off before your new job. Might be the last week you get off for the rest of your life.

>>1332560
>if they wouldn't give you a "two week notice" before firing us, why should we give them a two week notice before quitting?
that's shit logic. If they're firing you, it's because you fucked up. Giving a notice, however, only matters if you want to retain relationships with people you previously worked for. ie, you can just quit minimum wage jobs

I quit a well known fab shop without notice. Came back 2 years later. Reason being I was one of the best welders at that job. Like other guy said, if you aren't shit of an employee it won't be that big of a deal.

>>1332627
call them and say, I quit

>>1332627
So what if they are pissed off?

You owe them nothing. They owe you your paycheck up to that point. If you don't get it, file with the department of labor, and you'll get paid later. You're fucking stupid if you ever use a minimum wage job as a reference unless you get a paper copy in writing. There's so many barely above minimum wage managers out there that are real cunts that it's never worth wasting your time, or their time, to use them as a reference.

>>1333544
Fuck man thanks.

Needed those words to snap me out of it. isn't there any way of them getting back at me retroactively though? That's the one thing I was concerned with...

>>1333462
>If they're firing you, it's because you fucked up.
You're more sheltered than the anon asking about the girl's arm.

That or one of those "right to work" retards who drank the Kool aid of giving employers 100% undisputed control of everything because they're never ever wrong or dishonest.

>>1333578
There's all sorts of ways they can "get back at you." Most of them are highly illegal.

Quit, collect your last pay check when you normally would assuming it's not direct deposit. If they give you any shit when you do, walk out, and immediately file a wage complaint with the department of labor. The most important thing you can do is to document document document. Assume that they will try to fuck with you. Make sure you have proof of your hours worked. Even just writing it down personally counts for something, but if you can snap a picture of the charts with your phone, or make copies, it's even better. Have proof of regular deposits to your bank handy, and the day after you don't get paid, just file. Do not talk to anyone beyond that. Do not threaten them. Just walk out and file.

NEVER sign anything, especially without reading it. Lot of places try to coerce you into signing stuff in exchange for your paycheck. They don't get to do that. If they even try, just walk out, write down what happened immediately, and file with DOL. Signing stuff is a guaranteed way to fuck yourself over.

If your boss harasses you, document it. Block their number, and ignore them. Most of them legitimately don't give enough of a fuck about you to harass you once you tell them you quit. The ones that do are too incompetent to be reasoned with, so don't waste your time. If the harassment is ongoing, maybe take all of your documentation of events (you are documenting things right?) to a lawyer, or just send a letter to HR with copies of all of your documentation, and a brief cover letter saying that you expect this to stop immediately. Do not threaten them. Send it via certified mail. If it continues after you have the receipt for the mail in hand, get a lawyer immediately. With supporting evidence, workplace retaliation is something with serious monetary damages.

TL;DR assume the worst, and if you meet any resistance, go for the nuclear options available to you.

>>1333457
That's policy for most companies. They'll confirm employment dates but that's it. I was referring to the fact that you may cross paths again, potentially in a different context.

>>1334542
Companies don't want to get slapped with defamation lawsuits. Even if they are 100% justified in calling someone a worthless cunt, getting sued over a minor discrepancy, or something completely made up, costs them tons of money in legal fees. A minimum wage employee can't pay back those fees. The old adage, you can't get blood from a stone, is quite applicable here.

It's simpler and therefore cheaper to never confirm or deny anything past employment dates, and it opens them up to far less liability on top of that.

>>1333644
And you seem jaded. If an employer treats me bad I don't leave a 2 week a quit right at a busy time. But if they do treat me well and I found a better opportunity then I do leave a 2 week or I will also leave a 2 week if I really like my co-workers.

>>1333446
You must be foreign to not understand blatant sarcasm.

>>1334488
>NEVER sign anything
I made this mistake when I got fired from my last job. Then to make it even worse they gave me an option of being fired or resigning voluntarily and I resigned. So I had 0 chance of being able to collect unemployment. Luckily it only took me 2 months to find another job.

>>1332463
It's expected you will quit when you've barely worked there. These jobs are shit and have high turn over rates, it's not news to your employers you're actively seeking something better as you should be.

It's up to you really, how bad do you want to get out of there?

Most importantly do you know for sure if you have the other job or did you just find it? Do you know that the new job won't be worse? You can't go wrong if you don't burn bridges I guess.

>>1334488
Dang

It's a min wage job though, not sure if all this is even necessary

>>1334957
The new job is STILL shit but it's a fair bit better and more comfortable

>>1332487
>>1332617
That's necrosis. Didn't you guys ever watch House, MD?

>>1332463
Put in your two weeks and get out. This will also allow you to make any arrangements you need in your new position

>>1333462

So mass layoffs due to economic circumstances without 2 weeks notice don't happen in your universe?

>>1335140
All you do is keep records of timesheets, and not throw away emails/calls.

The rest is literally doing nothing. The problem is that people don't understand that not only do they not have to do anything, they SHOULD not. They try to negotiate when they don't have to. Because they don't know what they are doing, they get fucked.

The vast majority of time, you get paid, and you wasted a few minutes of time. When it does help you, it saves you a few hundred, or maybe a few thousand dollars. If you are a minimum wage grunt, can you really afford not to protect yourself?

>>1332560
>if they wouldn't give you a "two week notice" before firing us, why should we give them a two week notice before quitting?
You're confusing your corporate overlords with your co-workers.
The latter group is the one who you are actually fucking.

>>1335223
So? Why do you owe them anything?

Pretty sure anyone who's worked any customer facing job for more than a couple of years has been fucked by their coworkers more than a few times anyways. Pass the buck along, and stop giving a shit. Being compassionate gets you stabbed in the back.

>>1335249
True

I mean I don't think theyd ever spare that courtesy anyways

if you don't like your boss then just leave

if you like your boss then you should probably stay 2 weeks

I've had fucking unbearable supervisors before and they absolutely deserve all problems that come to them

>>1336104
What if they're nice but incompetent?

>>1336113
It's like talking to cops. It can only hurt you. Again, you shouldn't use them for a reference, so you simply should not care.

You cannot know how they are going to take it. Offering them advice, however valid, can give them a 'reason' to make things difficult for you. At best, it makes you stick out relative to all the other faceless fucks they forget about because you talked to them. Why would you ever want to put yourself in that position? If they are truly incompetent, it will bite them in the ass eventually, and you don't want to be the person they remember telling them they fucked up, because they might blame you specifically for it.

>>1336113

I would give them the 2 weeks

It's kind of a waste of time but it's good manners

OK, so I feel like I should explain things a bit further since people seem to be vaguely interested, and genuinely don't realize what their employers think of them.

I've worked in HR for over a decade. I mean this in the most impersonal non offensive way. You are a machine. We call it human RESOURCES for a reason. You are a piece of equipment that has a limited capacity for autonomous behavior, which is great. Unfortunately, you are expensive to run. A rolling press doesn't need health insurance, and doesn't exactly call in sick. It doesn't want vacations. It doesn't give a shit what it's hours are. Squishy bags of meat walking around on two legs do care, and are really fragile. HR for minimum wage has two primary jobs. To find workers, and most importantly, to protect the company from lawsuits.

cont....

>>1336293
We aren't there to protect you, the worker. We exist to keep the company from getting sued. If that means we have to get rid of a manager that's sexually assaulting people in the break room, we will get him to sign an NDA, liability wavers, etc, and bury him deeply and softly. If he ever speaks up, he's fucked, and he knows it. His victims? They're liabilities too. We'll get some senior executive to give them a meaningless oral apology, and offer to 'help them through this traumatic experience', so they feel good. Meanwhile there's no record of them having anything done to them, except a little earmark on their file using some internal code phrase that translates to 'shitlisted'. As soon as we can reasonably do so, we'll shuffle them around to different locations, and they'll wind up in trouble over some collection of small offenses over the course of a few months, get moved around again to make more mistakes, get put on a bullshit performance improvement plan based on these trumped up mistakes, and then eventually fired because they kept making tiny errors. By putting you on the PIP and having you sign it, we've got hard proof that you are a terrible worker, you've acknowledged that you are a terrible worker, any lawsuit will go out the window, and we don't have to pay unemployment when we fire you "for cause".

>>1336295
Ever wonder how that one absolute thundercunt of a regional manager stays with the company when his turnover rate is 8 times anyone else's? Because we send 'troublesome' employees to them, fully aware that he's going to find any excuse to bitch about them to compensate because he's a narcissist who's insecure about the size of his dick, the fact that his family hates him, and that his sixth wive divorced him a month ago. He's just a tool to us. He never does anything illegal. He's just a cunt. And that means he's useful because we can use him to dispose of you. He would cost us money in a perfect world, except that using him to get rid of you is cheaper than you suing us, so we keep him around, and just ignore the fact that 80% of employees working under him leave within 3 months, if they manage to make it past training. He's a continuous fixed cost piece of equipment, and accounting loves predictable costs. Even better, he's too stuck-up his own ass to realize this is all we value him for. Give him some bullshit flowery commentary about how we can't believe the shit he deals with, and he's happy, because we're praising him. Narcs love that shit.

>But you were a good worker and were assaulted.

Doesn't fucking matter. We got rid of your supervisor because he was a liability. The fact that you complained makes you more likely to cause trouble for us in the future. You aren't a human. You are a piece of equipment. A piece of equipment that might cost us money. Maybe you won't. Maybe you'll get an ego and give the other bees ideas. Maybe you'll have a mental break down. We don't know. We aren't going to take our chances when we can get a new piece of equipment trained in 2 days, and have thousands of applications sitting around for our computer to call/email.

>>1336299
You have to understand that you as a minimum wage worker have no essential skills that make you valuable. You aren't being paid minimum wage because we want to. We are doing it because we legally have to. Anything that makes you less than the ideal drone following instructions makes you dangerous, and dangerous has quantifiable costs. To put things into perspective, I got bonuses for burying people quietly in ways that could not get us in trouble. Get someone to sign something acknowledging a fuckup, real or imaginary, by carefully wording things and misleading them into believing they had to, or else they wouldn't get paid, or would get sued, or whatever. As long as I don't say anything illegal, and don't do anything to directly hurt you, I can get away with selectively presenting information to you with the specific intention of misleading you. I don't have to tell you the whole truth. In fact I have cash incentive NOT to. The company would much rather pay me a few percent of the average cost of dealing with you than pay to deal with you. It's a sound business idea, because remember, you are a piece of equipment, and more specifically, an easily replaceable piece of equipment.

>>1336301
The paradigm shifts when you get into actual skilled jobs. Highly skilled professionals are valuable assets. When dealing with highly paid individuals, there's a third thing we do on top of getting employees, and lawsuit avoidance. Retention. It's frequently in the companies interest to keep skilled employees. They aren't easy to replace. We still can, and will, bury you if we catch even a whiff of trouble, but we are a lot more careful to protect you up front. You get access to contracts without binding arbitration clauses. Sure, we'll give you one with the clause, but you can actually negotiate that off the contract. Your salary is potentially negotiable. Your managers don't get to shit on you nearly as hard. We want you to at least feel important, because even if we can find dozens of replacements, job training can't be done in two days, and most of them cant just walk out of a job and start with us on top of that.

>TL;DR never be naieve enough to believe that HR has your interests in mind. We don't. If you ever want to be treated well, you need to have nearly irreplaceable skills and assets.

Bonus trigger words that will scare the shit out of HR people, if you have evidence on your side. Sometimes we'll just cut you a check if you promise not to sue us, and you bet your ass we are going to try to convince you it's a sweet deal. Check with a lawyer if you ever get a settlement offer. If they insist that the offer is only valid while you are there, it's a shitty offer and don't take it.

>constructive dismissal
>hostile work environment
>EPA
>IRS
>OSHA

Depending on the context, any of these can cause us to shit our pants.

>>1336308
If I work in a department populated by my superior who is friends and family with everyone in my department but me, could that be considered a hostile work environment?

>>1336293
>>1336295
>>1336299
>>1336301
>>1336308

TLDR be a good worker, and understand that is all you are

its funny cause a lot of people would probably get offended at this.

>>1336360
Not by itself. That could be good old fashioned nepotism/cronyism. There's nothing illegal about that, but it does tend to lead to stupid actions because nepotism leads to incompetence.

Hostile work environment is systemic abuse, or attempts to cover up systemic abuse. Think of it as a more severe case of what I mentioned above with shuffling someone around. If it could be proven that every employee who filed a complaint wound up working for that cunt of a manager, you'd maybe have a case, but it's tenuous at best. If we just ignored that manager sexually abusing people, and told you you had to deal with it, first of all we'd be fucking retarded, but besides that you'd have a solid case.

This is why competent HR personnel take time to stick the knife in and twist it. Rushing things means people remember things happening, and think of causality. Nobody looks at it funny if we move someone to a different shift with the cunt boss 2-3 months after . He's a black hole for employees anyways, so after a few 'random' drawings, we moved the employee we don't want there, and then that employee is gone after we generate a paper trail. There's nothing shady about that by itself, and on the rare occasion someone does get a lawyer to contact us, we just send them a phonebook of proof. Most lawyers realize it's unwinnable, and we never hear from them again. It's very difficult/impossible to prove hostile work environments/retaliation if we do our job right, even if it's true.

You can certainly imply hostile work environments, IE, when the PIP comes around, ask them why they are being so hostile, and generally try to flip the mind game back onto us. Most people are fucking stupid though, and end up threatening us with extortion. Don't overplay your hand. Extortion is a free ride out of a facility in the hands of security.

>>1336395
We actually want people to be offended by the very notion. The more trusting they are of us, the easier it is to silently dispose of them.

>>1336416
would you say its only this way with big corps/ companies w/ large groups of min wage workers.

just recite the navy seals copypasta to your boss and he should get the message

>>1336482
The smaller companies I have worked for more recently are a lot less vicious, but they were dealing with people who had qualifications, and we have to actually offer incentives as a result. I actually like doing this more because it's far less bureaucracy, and the people you are working with are generally smart enough to realize what the relationship is.

I don't really have any experience with mom and pop type minimum wage operations. I worked for a major distributor for nearly a decade. Mostly warehouse work. Companies like walmart, amazon, and target almost certainly do the exact same things I did there. Really small companies can't afford the overhead of hiring a big team of bureaucrats. Big companies just treat us like an insurance cost. It's something they aren't happy about, but they'd rather pay us than pay for monumental fuckups on the part of other employees. You don't have to be a very large company for a few hundred thousand a year on legal/hr to be worth it. Even with 25 employees it's worth having a legal firm on retainer, and to contract to a separate HR firm.

Know your place in the cogs of the machine.

cont...

>>1336519
Ironically, what lead me to leaving was exactly that type of penny pinching. New manager came in and wanted to gut HR to save costs. Because I was by far the most productive person in HR, I was raking in bonuses for killing things quietly, and was just too expensive. Some months I doubled my pay because of them, so I was already on her personal shitlist, but was untouchable for a while while I was looking.

Besides restructuring bonuses, which put me in a position where I legitimately had no incentive to do 2/3rds of the work I was doing, she wanted us to start doing things more aggressively, which could result in lawsuits, and a bunch of other shady shit. Like, think registered sex offenders working with children levels of shady. She spelled out exactly what her plan was in a meeting, and one our lawyers flat out said "This is an enormous liability that I could get disbarred for greenlighting" She said she didn't care, and to do it anyways. He responded with "This activates such and such kicker clause in my contract. Consider this my immediate resignation. I will be sending copies to all relevant management via certified mail this evening. Failure to receive my contractually stated severance package will result in such and such penalties and all relevant court costs under such and such subsection of blah blah" and then walked out.

I was thinking the same thing as the lawyer, but I didn't have the contractual protection, nor the balls, to pull a stunt like that. Even with a few notarized hard copies of golden letters of recommendation from management I wouldn't have dreamed of doing that. Instead, I just thought about it, finished up my day, closed everything out, and left a time delayed email for around 2 AM saying I quit, and could be reached at such and such address if they needed information.

Fuck em. I'd rather be unemployed for a few months, even without unemployment, than work in a spot where I'm the designated fall guy for a psychotic.

>>1334576
>never confirm or deny anything past employment dates
so this is what references in essence are?
any jobs where this isn't the case they actually talk about the employee?

>>1336539
fascinating
any books you'd recommend to understand the game and how to play it?

>>1336539
>"This activates such and such kicker clause in my contract. Consider this my immediate resignation. I will be sending copies to all relevant management via certified mail this evening. Failure to receive my contractually stated severance package will result in such and such penalties and all relevant court costs under such and such subsection of blah blah" and then walked out.
Living the dream.

How long do I have to work at a place before I can use it as a reference

>>1336872
Lots of companies will tell people more information than that. They are the companies that haven't been sued for it yet. That or they are in a small industry where everyone knows everyone, so the reference checks are just formalities so people can claim due diligence.

Can't really recommend any books. A lot of it is applied psychology. Understanding sociopaths can save your ass in a corporate environment. It's also scary easy to condition people into certain behaviors.

>>1336903
Most people will never have that level of protection in their lives. Most people also won't bring anything worth that level of protection to the table. I was senior HR, and that guy was someone who I literally only talked to a couple of times. He worked directly under the board of directors, and didn't answer to anyone. Nobody at that table could have touched him, and he knew it.

They wanted him to put himself at risk. He didn't think the pay was good enough, or offered enough plausible deniability, to warrant such a risk. It's the same reason I quit, he just didn't need to fear retaliation. I'd put serious money on him contacting several regulatory agencies about what he was being told to do. It's what I would have done in that position.

>>1333544

One of my referenced has deceased, what does this mean for me? I have nobody that can fill his place

>>1336932
Put it down anyways with a note indicating deceased. Probably put the note in the telephone area, but fill out the rest of the form reasonably. If you have proof of employment during that time, most places won't give a shit. Most places wont really give too much of a shit regardless.

If it's online, see if it accepts Jenny's number. Outsourced people in India don't realize that it's made up and won't care.

>>1336308
>>constructive dismissal
>>hostile work environment
>>EPA
>>IRS
>>OSHA

Care to expand on this? Been a great read, while not entirely surprising, nice to see the inner workings of scummy HR talked about.

Essentially, wouldn't mind having some ammunition to sling at my employers in the future just in case.

>>1336939
You need stuff to back these up, but these are all trigger words that will send us into full panic mode. Just wildly throwing out terms makes you look like an idiot. We'll pretend to be scared, and offer you some joke of a settlement, and get you out the door with your signature that you give up all rights to sue us. You're stupid enough to think you got out ahead, we save money.

However, each of these has specific situations where we have fucked up, and are hoping to god that you don't know any better.

>constructive dismissal
Imagine you work 30 hours a week. Suddenly you are asked to do something flagrantly illegal. You refuse, or report it. Whether or not we fix that issue is irrelevant here. We retaliate by cutting your hours down to 20, then 15, then 10, then 3 2 hour shifts a week. We've fired you without 'firing' you. This is known as constructive dismissal, and the DOL has a SERIOUS fucking hate boner for any company dumb enough to try this. Like, you will get unemployment benefits at your previous rate of pay, and will get paid for all missing hours going back months, and apparently in some states you can get triple damages plus interest (don't quote me on that). I've seen one of these get backdated nearly a year. Wound up paying like 80,000 after everything was said and done, and all this guy had to do was keep all his paystubs and send copies of his initial complaint about not having proper safety gear to the DOL. Someone went to fucking jail over this cock up. When it slid onto my desk I just sighed, paged legal, walked over, passed the suit the folder and said, we're so fucked. He read it, and wordlessly started doing the internal paperwork to handle large expenses for legal stuff. Minimum wage worker got an 80,000 dollar payout because some retard told him he had to scrape up period blood without gloves, then fucked with his hours, and blocked information getting to HR.

>>1336956
>>constructive dismissal

Supposing your hours got cut like that because management didn't like you or you pissed them off over something personal? I would assume there wouldn't be anything could be done about that, is that the case though?

>>1336956
constructive dismissal has a very narrow context, but this is incredibly powerful in those cases. You can just call the DOL and ask if they think you qualify. They are actually extremely helpful.

>hostile work environment
hard to prove, but basically what I said before. If we refuse to rectify a situation, and you can prove it, we can get the shaft. Depending on where you are, there's multiple different government agencies that might get involved, and in some cases you are given a private cause of action (meaning you can sue) as well. Extremely context dependent, but it's usually you being forced to do something illegal after telling management, then HR, that you cannot do that. Retaliation can sometimes fit into this, IE if we fire you, or punish you, because you complained. Proving that can be really hard though.

To protect yourself in cubical farms, always email your boss something along the lines of, RE: our conversation about duties earlier, list what they said, and politely ask for confirmation. Blind carbon copy your personal email outside the company. In one party consent states, consider recording your boss. You can't really sue for this if HR gets wind of it and immediately fixes the problem. That's our job. Well, not exactly. Our job is to prevent financial damage to the company. That means fixing the problem in this case.

>EPA/IRS/OSHA
Regulatory agencies, and the taxman. They all have teeth. Usually a minimum wage grunt isn't going to deal with the IRS. If you ever are asked to dump strange chemicals in the woods, pour motor oil down drains, or told to ignore safety procedures, EPA/OSHA are your friends. Both allow some degree of anonymous tips, and OSHA in particular can bring a factory to it's knees while they do a full inspection. Regulations vary depending on your industry and job duties, but both have people you can talk to for help, and extensive manuals.

>>1336968
>but it's usually you being forced to do something illegal

The unusual?

>Retaliation can sometimes fit into this, IE if we fire you, or punish you, because you complained.

Does it necessarily have to do with complaining about being asked to do something illegal?

>>1336968
Fines can be well into the millions for flagrantly violating things. I've done contracting for a company that did HR work for a bunch of small chains. One was a franchised jiffy lube type place. Manager/owner at one location was just dumping oil, coolant, and everything else down the storm drains. EPA got involved, he went bankrupt overnight, then went to jail because it wasn't the first time he did that.

If you ever contact a government agency, don't threaten to do it. Just do it, and brace for retaliation.

Lastly, there's the taxman. never, ever, EVER, fuck with the IRS. They can, and will fucking destroy you in the most absolute and non consensual manner you could possibly imagine. You are better off being on FBI/CIA hitlists than being wanted by the IRS. If you know your employer is cheating on taxes, RUN THE FUCK AWAY. If it's a big cheat, the IRS has a reward program for tipping them off, so you can even collect a sizable payout, just seriously, if you actually care about yourself, get the fuck out.

It's difficult to mention reporting to the IRS without it coming across as extortion, but if you mention that you've reported activities that you know happened, and know beyond a shadow of a doubt are illegal, it might scare someone enough to get legal to settle with you.

>>1336922
anyone?

>>1336985

So long as they are willing to be a reference for you it doesn't matter.

>>1336963
This would not be constructive dismissal. At will employment cuts both ways. Your boss can fire you because he wants you to tie your shoes a certain way, and hop on one foot while not stepping on the black floor tiles every time you clock in.

Constructive Dismissal is special protection against retaliation for them doing something 'wrong'. There's nothing legally wrong with being an asshole.

>>1336974
The unusual is things like being the victim of assaults, sexual harassment, racial profiling, and such. They happen, but its far more often that some manager just wants you to suck it up and do something dangerous. Things like improper/missing safety gear, forklift safety, etc. Maybe depends on the industry. I never noticed much in the way of sexual assaults or racism, but 95% of the employees were males in their 20s. Not much room for that to happen there.

>Does it necessarily have to do with complaining about being asked to do something illegal?
That's getting into murky waters. If you complain about a boss being a shithead, we probably don't care. If a lot of people complain, we might care. If the boss starts making vague threats about firing people for no reason, and we have proof, we'll care sooner.

Most things that aren't illegal are things that we barely care about, if we care at all. It's not illegal to be an asshole. It's just not professional. If the boss gets the numbers in though, we don't care how he does it, as long as it doesn't generate liability. If he's a sweetheart, good for him. If half the people he oversees wouldn't piss on him if he burst into flames, well that's his problem to deal with. As long as he doesn't inconvenience whatever is going on while he's on fire there isn't a problem as far as we are concerned.

Going to sleep for a bit. I'll answer more shit when I get to it tomorrow.

>>1337000
Solid stuff man, appreciate it.

>>1336990
1 week working at a place is unfortunately to brief then

>>1337000
Amazing stuff anon

>>1332836
i quit walmart and never told them before, i just didn't go back. I feel REALLY REALLY bad about doing that because they were having problems was it was. Please just call them and say something, two weeks notice preferable.

i'm on foodstamps now after quitting my job. Is it possible to get another job and stay on foodstamps? I'm getting more food now than i ever did when i was actually working lol

>>1337000
How do I get a job in HR.

What's the best way to get that be an asshole to make people quit job.

I work as a shit kicker (but actually get paid well) at one of the big Pharmaceutical companies and I can confirm everything that man is saying in regards to HR and how they operate.

Our HR department in particular is fucking ruthless, but very meticulous and calculated in their operation.

I work with a lot of old bitches and they love to complain and just be general cunts. Many of them had been working for the company 10 years plus and were light duties, some on work cover ect ect. A lot spoke their mind, constantly complaining to managers about things they weren't happy with and generally just being a pain in the ass from a business perspective.

A lot thought because they were on light duties, or work cover that they were untoucable and could sit on their as all day getting the easy jobs due to their bullshit ailments and injuries.

>mfw came to work last week and all of them gone

Just like that.

It pays to keep your head down, do your job and realize you're just a fucking number, nothing more and everything less. No one is untouchable, you are a number.

>>1337000
When you awake I have questions.

My first question is as follows. I work in post-secondary education (think college, university, institute etc.) It is public and not private. I now work in a salaried job. Previously I worked an hourly part-time job and was promoted to a higher paying hourly part-time job. We (the hourlies) were limited to 19 hours. If we were to work over 19 hours, we would get an automated message from HR stating that we worked over 19 hours without departmental-managerial approval and that we could not be paid. Fast forward, I have in writing in an email from my manager at the time something akin to the following: Team--put overage (hours worked over 19) on the week of intersession when we do not work. Fast forward, I do as he says. He later contacts me via email and then via phone. We speak in person. He says that HR rejected some of the hours because I had accepted the salaried position the day that I listed them on. Do I have any recourse in being remunerated for those lost hours? Or am I boned? I talked to my new and current supervisor and he recommended I talk to payroll or HR about it. Glad I didn't. What should I do?

Also, the head honcho of my department has many complaints to HR.

(I am trying to couch my language in vagaries, well the shit that does not matter so much. What I think doesn't matter much. If you need any clarification or have further questions, please ask.)

Anyway, sorry. She, the director, has a lot of baggage with HR. She apparently approached one of my female coworkers and said the following: Don't think of me as your boss. [...] Would you be possible/able/willing to go to a dance with my son? This girl has a family member who works in HR. The girl tells the person in HR. The person in HR is livid and says 'I could dismiss her immediately for that.' Anyway, the girl swore to me secrecy. That being said, is there anything I could do with that?

>>1337450
>>1337000
Also nice trips.

[continued]

Also, she begged the family member in HR not to do anything. She also begged me and I am technically a junior member of management now. Am I liable for being silent and doing nothing? I really dislike my management and I think I hate to cute off my nose to spite my face because they've been mostly good to me, but I would like my money and I would like to see this people disciplined if possible and I would like to be untouched. If I can only get two-out-of-three, great. Advise please.

I have an extensive work history. I am not sure what to do with all these jobs. In short, should I list all of them, even the ones I quit without two weeks notice? Even if I got fired? Committed job abandonment? Even if it was temporary? Even if I am blacklisted? Even if I worked there for like a month?

I have other questions, but if you can answer these...I would be very, very appreciative.

Thanks a lot.

>>1337213
Never worked with foodstamps. No idea honestly. Our employees would never qualify for food stamps because they'd work too many hours, and the positions I'm in now deal with 50,000+ salaried positions who obviously don't qualify. I thought they were tiered based on your income, so if you got a little money, you lost some stamps, but not all. I may be wrong.

>>1337272
I have no clue how I wound up here. I graduated with comp sci degree, and a minor in philosophy. One day I got tasked with handling a bunch of resumes. Somehow it just evolved from there. Took some courses in general management, and psychology because I liked it. Saw an opening with good benefits, and the compensation package at the one company, applied, and spent a year refining my skills.

You don't get into HR by being an asshole. Well you don't get far. You get far by being able to filter paperwork extremely fast, and by saving money. Just being a prick is going to get you hated in office politics, and will make you bad at getting people to do stuff that saves the company money. You don't have to be loved, but being hated makes your job unnecessarily difficult. If you just want to be a cunt, I don't know what to tell you. You have to have some useful qualities either in spite of, or because of, you being a cunt.

>>1337511
on paper i care for a disabled person and i'm unemployed, it is never set to expire. Will they know if i get a job if i don't inform them myself? Can i just get a job and keep collecting?

>>1334718
Three lying mismanaged employers in a row will do that. An aimless employer or one protecting diverse employees will fire you without cause. Once the workplace is established as one of those, I immediately start formulating an exit plan. I just didn't get out in time last time.

>>1337450
>(I am trying to couch my language in vagaries, well the shit that does not matter so much. What I think doesn't matter much. If you need any clarification or have further questions, please ask.)

No worries. I get the gist of it. So here's the truth of the matter.

You are owed for any hours you work, approved or otherwise. That's the good. Now the bad. If you complain, I positively fucking guarantee you that you will be shitlisted. As a teacher, this depends on your unions. Teachers have some of the most powerful unions on earth, but a lot of schools, especially colleges, are trying to filter away from tenured professors with union support.

Chances are, if you want to keep your job long term, forget about a handful of hours. It's wrong, but they will trump up reasons to fire you, if for no other reason than to save face. If that happens, and you have serious hard proof of the retaliation, you will have a case to sue them. Even if you win though, it might be career altering/ruining. Academia is a world you could not pay me enough to touch.

If your boss can give you a signed hardcopy of a complaint that you can send to HR/payroll via CERTIFIED mail, you can establish a paper trail. Based on the information provided, the only way I would make a big stink about a few hundred dollars is if my boss was willing to put their neck on the line for me. Honestly take it over to r/legaladvice and ask how to phrase things in your complaint.

>>1337530
I am not a teacher...actually just a staff member, so think administrative/operational, professional-technical. Someone who works at a college or university other than a professor of any flavor.

My brother's an attorney for what it is worth. He said to let it die. I will let it die.

Also, what of the sexual harassment thing? I should probably just keep my mouth shut...

>>1337546
>>1337530
also thanks a lot btw! May I ask a couple of more questions...is that cool? They aren't long questions or if they are, I think they have a definitive yes/no answer.

>Anyway, sorry. She, the director, has a lot of baggage with HR. She apparently approached one of my female coworkers and said the following: Don't think of me as your boss. [...] Would you be possible/able/willing to go to a dance with my son? This girl has a family member who works in HR. The girl tells the person in HR. The person in HR is livid and says 'I could dismiss her immediately for that.' Anyway, the girl swore to me secrecy. That being said, is there anything I could do with that?

In Academia, you may be a mandatory reporter for some things. I wouldn't know. Holy fuck though. I would start looking for another place to work yesterday. This place sounds absolutely fucked, and it's only a matter of time before you trip up, and someone throws all the dirt floating around the office onto your plate and gets you fired for it.

If you haven't already, start keeping a massive log of all of these incidents, with as much detail as you can manage. Include what you have proof of, the proof, and your speculations and preliminary conclusions. DO NOT USE THEM TO BLACKMAIL. Your reporting of incidents must be completely independent of whatever else you do. If you do decide to report it, send copies via email, and include a comment about how you are sending this via certified mail, as well as BCCing the email to an outside personal email. Certified mail is your friend. It's a paper trail that nobody can argue about.

>>1337514
They may get benefits, and you as the caregiver may be able to do with them as you see fit, barring obvious abuse.

This really isn't my area of expertise, but I think you can.

>>1337390
This is really common. It wasn't at my company, but one of their direct competitors fired 700 people overnight because of talks of unionization. Lot of them ended up coming to work for us.

Easiest interviews of my life. Pretend to vaguely be interested in unionization, and let them puff up their chests and be proud of the fact that they 'stuck it to the man'. Then just pitch their stuff into the trash, and never contact them. Those that didn't want unionization to begin with fucking hated them because they just lost their job. Easy hires, and you've got a bunch of people that will rat on ANY whisper about, let alone attempts to, form a union after getting fucked last time.

Sucks to loose good employees, but when you have this herd mentality, it's often easier, and cheaper, to just tie the whole department off and start all over.

>>1337548
Feel free to ask more questions. I'm in and out of the house today running tons of errands.

>>1337572
yes i can have them under the conditions that i am unemployed and care for a disabled person. Being unemployed i would not qualify as i have already had them in the past etc reasons. Caring for a disabled person extends that indefinitely as long as i am still unemployed but none of this was my question. I asked if they would know if i got a job and if i could retain the food stamps.

>>1337579
Not sure. Benefit fraud is something that the government does not like. Might get nailed for tax evasion too.

Really not a topic I'm comfortable making specific statements about. I simply don't know.

>>1337552
>>1337578
>Holy fuck though. I would start looking for another place to work yesterday.

Sounds good to me. I'm tired of working here anyway. It's just absurd.

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it. It's good to know that my ignoring my instincts and gut haven't been the world's best idea, but I can rectify the situation.

I have probably five or more years of work experience that I think is unlistable as referenced near the end of this post >>1337456 mostly wage slave shit that I worked in high school and college but still its useful experience that adds up to years worked and could help get a pay bump or a better job or so I hope.

Some thing are older than 10 yrs. so I didn't list them.

>grocery store deli clerk (3ish months, summer gig, two weeks notice)
> warehouse clerk (3ish months, temp, job abandonment, blacklisted)
>financial aid assistant (6 months, laid off, supervisor gave me a bad ref. my dad who's attorney said I could've disputed, but former supervisor is gone now)
>student office assistant (10 months, laid off)
>produce clerk (6 months, left job due to hospitalization)
>pharmacy tech (7 months, gave notice)
>library page (6 months, great ref., he died though)
>gas station clerk (6 months, quit with zero notice)
>pharmacy tech (one month, same INC. as deli and former pharm tech job, commit job abandonment, potentially blacklisted)
>call center at credit union (4ish months quit abruptly w/o notice due to health)
>two temp assignments with office team they like me
>hourly asst. (7ish months, promoted)
>team lead (3ish months, promoted)
>supervisor (2 months, present day)

There's probably more, but I can't remember it all lol. Are there services I can use to help get an edge? My friend swears by HR folks for hire like resume writing services, and people who will check your references for a fee.

>>1337594
My advice, and this goes to everyone, is to have a couple different general purpose resumes. Have the full deal with everything that you can possibly think of, and have the lean one for applications. Government jobs often want everything within the past 10 years for your fat resume. Most other places want the lean one, at least until interviews.

Make your lean one a bit over a page long, and format it in such a way that you can trim it down to a page very easily. Just cut out irrelevant things to your current application. Easiest way to fine tune things is to just cut them out. This saves you tons of time, and you don't have to worry about remembering stupid shit all the time, since it's already there.

Additionally, keep resumes ready to go in word docx, doc, pdfs, and plain text. Plain text formats are a godsend. Keep the character width to something narrow, like 25-30, manually using enter to force wrapping. For online applications, or anything involving email, this makes you look like a fucking genius. I'll be completely honest here, if I'm going through a stack of 500+ online applications, 3 of them are neatly formatted in plain text, and I have to pick 5, guess which 3 are guaranteed to survive round 1. Maybe you get the job, maybe you don't. It's a better shot than getting pitched because your text looks like cancer.

For your case, typically list the list the last 3-5, and maybe a few other ones if they are particularly relevant. Employers used to care about people hopping jobs, but millennials are more restless than baby boomers on coke, so hopping jobs doesn't mean anything anymore. Being at a place more than a year is a good sign these days. Show them that you haven't been long term unemployed, or have very good reasons for being so, and they typically won't care.

>>1337626
Thanks for the thorough, informed and well-reasoned response.

Sounds good to me.

You're not a career counselor, obviously, but I have one last question...for now lol.

I suffer from a chronic illness that is mental health related that has caused me trouble in the past. I'm basically your typical millennial. I loathe customer service, albeit it's super abundant. I majored in something I will not use for a career--English--as I no longer want to teach k-12, and graduate school in the humanities has about as much enticement attached to it as getting my penis and testicles smashed with a hammer. Just look at the state of the university system today and disappearing tenure. I was most recently in grad school for philosophy but I couldn't stomach it.

I'm vacillating between actuarial science (I'm actually decent at math and I have all the right stuff except for lots of time which I'll need for al lthe fucking exams), computer programming/science/coding/developing/et al., and/or freelance work in translation (considering grad school for translation Iowa, Arkansas, Kent State, etc.)

You're a CS guy or were. Are those programming bootcamps bullshit ala iron yard, app academy, launch academy, hack reactor, etc.? I have three friends who work in teh biz. The Full Stack Developer said teach yourself. The Solutions Analyst said go to a coding bootcamp and become a web developer. The Software Engineer said it was all bull shit and that I needed a BS in CS if I want a job and that certs and portfolios mean much less than a solid degree.

What are your thoughts? I'm like Goldie Locks and I've been presented three ideas about CS.

I'm thinking freelance work might be possibility doing a number of things technical documentation, cs stuff, translation, etc. Freelancing's viable option right?

I graduated from college and everything I wanted to do I couldn't do /I just changed too much to want to do it anymore.

>>1337659
pro tip, suck up to IT. Even if it's just saying good morning and giving them a smile. Most of them are somewhat anti social, but if anyone can help you, it's IT. Nobody understands what they do, and they know it, so they have zero problems playing favorites. I've had access I should not have had at so many companies because I went out of my way to protect IT from penny pinching senior management. Let me know months in advance of mergers, and gave me clairvoyance on office politics. Seriously. If you are going to suck a dick, suck IT's.

I still do IT stuff, and maintain several different cisco and microsoft certs, along with some linux crap. I haven't seriously written enterprise code in years, but I can read it. That's why I'm in my current position. I can act as a translator between the software developers, database guys, and pointy haired management. Neither side operates on the same plane of reality, so you have to convey stuff back and forth like you are speaking to children, without sounding patronizing.

It really comes down to what you want to do. CS is such a ludicrously wide field that it's hard to give an answer. Saying, OH, I'm in CS is like saying I'm in humanities. You could be a writer, philosopher, musician, painter, or whatever. The variation is enormous. Big fields that you cannot hire fast enough are medical, and financial. There's everything in those fields from working with 70s era cobol monstrosities to bleeding edge microsecond stock trading. There's always a demand for physical presence for hardware maintenance, and small companies all over need a sysadmin to manage their shitty exchange server that hasn't been patched since the clinton administration.

>>1337700
You have a degree. If you know a bit about programming/hardware, go to a CC, get an associates in comp sci. Then work on certifications in whatever you want to specialize in. A degree, doesn't really matter what, is often good enough, provided that you have certifications. The associates will let you figure out what you want to specialize in. The certs matter. Degrees are often expensive pieces of low grade toilet paper. Maybe get a fancier degree later for government jobs.

Most comp sci graduates cannot code for shit. If you get past the initial stages and get an interview at my company, you'll have to submit pseudocode snippets to solve certain problems. Frankly, I couldn't give less of a shit if you have a degree at that point. If you can code, you're worth looking at. Even if you have no experience with the language we are using, programing is about abstracting things to a level that you can pick up new languages in weeks. So you have to keep a reference manual on your desk. Everyone does, even the people with degrees. Nobody gives a shit if you have to look stuff up. Half the job is pretending you know what you do while learning it on site. It's the age of smartphones, get eboks, and flick through that shit on the job.

Not all companies are like that, and I've gotten shit from management for hiring like this in the past. Fuck them. People I hire are at least 30% more productive than anyone else, and nobody else has come close to the average productivity of my hires in years. Programming/database/IT is a mindset above anything else. Break things down into manageable problems, and tackle each one in turn. It's like being a handyman, just for a weirdly specific piece of eccentric equipment that is magic to most people. If you understand that, you can do anything.

>>1337700
>>1337738
Thanks again! Sorry, I got busy with nonsense.

>>1332463
I worked the night stocking crew at a grocery store for a year. 11pm-7am for 48 hours a week. Hated my entire life, got depressed, lost friends, pushed family away, etc.

Finally, I put in my two weeks. My boss moved me back to daytimes with a promotion.

You win either way m8

>>1332463
Hand in your notice like a big boy. Don't burn bridges; you may want to go back there.

>>1332560
>if they wouldn't give you a "two week notice" before firing us, why should we give them a two week notice before quitting?
Ah, american labour laws.
> Week notice before being fired
> Have to give four weeks notice when leaving
Feels good being british.

>>1332463
Still give your 2 week notice.

Try to get some of your co-workers to take the last shifts of yours. Maybe even talk to your manager about getting rid of your hours and giving them to other people.

Store manager at my store, we have access to information about all the places you have worked before that gave you paychecks so I get to call the companies you worked for before.

I have gotten quite a few calls from people at other companies asking me what I thought about their current applicants who used to work for me.

I always said nice things about them since I didn't want to fuck up their opportunities... Unless you fucked me over and quit without putting in a 2 week notice.

I'm in Australia,

But all this.
For a fucking casual or part-time job.
>if you can get one

I'd rather be semi-NEET and self employed then go through this cuckery again.

>>1337738
Since you are HR person, can you tell me why you often never hear back after you apply for a job? Not even an rejection letter.

Why HR does not read resumes anymore?

Most importantly how do you actually get a job in this economy where no matter how good you are, there are a bunch of applicants after the same job?

How do you network if no one wants to get to know you or these networking events turn out into cattle call presentations?

Why is it so difficult to get a good job even if you are skilled?

>>1332487
Makeup to make it look like she is a junky with necrotic skin on her arm from shooting up.

>>1340440
>can you tell me why you often never hear back after you apply for a job? Not even an rejection letter.

Unless it's a top end position, all you can expect to get is an automated form letter.

>Why HR does not read resumes anymore?

We do read some of them. It's just that for any position, we get hundreds of applications. There's easy litmus tests that let us just pitch stuff into the trash bin. The advent of computing means that people will apply to hundreds/thousands of positions every week. We literally get swamped.

For paper stuff, I'll take a stack of 500+ resumes, and hold them up to a light. If they don't have a watermark, or the watermark isn't oriented correctly, I throw it into the trash. I also just look at formatting by taking my glasses off, and looking at the formatting. If the text is weirdly lopsided, the font sizes are weird, or there's weird bolding/italics, I pitch it. If it's got coloring, I pitch it. If it isn't stapled/clipped/folded correctly, I pitch it. There's many other tests too, but they all involve glancing at your resume for less than 5 seconds before deciding if I want to keep it or pitch it. Most tests try to keep things down to sub 2 seconds per resume. There's similar tricks that you do for electronic stuff as well. We do blind control samples of these methods to make sure that they work. For the vast majority of litmus tests, the numbers show that well under 2% of rejects would make it through the first round of additional scrutiny if we actually looked at them anyways, and once people get good at these methods, that number frequently drops to under 1%.

>>1340508
So the question is, why on earth would we ever bother looking at things? Management isn't going give HR a 10-20 fold budget increase just to catch the odd person who might be a fractionally better employee when we can get a dozen people more than good enough with minimal effort. I'm certainly not spending a week digging through stuff written so poorly I want to blow my head off with a shotgun on national television, especially when 2-3 tests alone will narrow that pile of 2000+ into less than 20 in under an hour.

Once you get through the litmus tests, then we actually start devoting more time to looking at your stuff. You are literally in the 1% at a minimum before we even look at your qualifications. I've seen internship postings where we've had upwards of 10,000 applications, and just running them through the filters brought that number down to 15 or less.

>Most importantly how do ...

The rest of this just reads like introverted neet stuff. You aren't the best in your field. Practically nobody actually is. That's not an excuse, it's just a fact of life. It sounds like you are flopping on the handful of interviews that you do get, and it sounds like your resume needs some polishing.

Anyone who says you can't polish a turd has never had to process resumes in bulk. Most people just don't polish them. Polished turds get through the filters from time to time, but at that point, you've already won most of the war because we've actually looked at your resume for more than a combined total of 15 seconds. At that point, if you are even remotely fit for the job, you've probably got a shot. If you can get an interview, having presentable materials to give out such as detailed information about previous work experience helps. As does being professionally polite, but outgoing and confident.

>>1340526
Oh, I forgot to mention.

As an addition to the pitching at a minimum 90% of all resumes before we even look at them. Your information literally isn't even in the system yet. Even if there is an automated rejection notification system, it would never know to contact you. And because paper applicants don't get rejection notices, and because setting up such a system would take a little time and money, it never gets setup.

My current company sends rejection notices if we get into contact with you for clarifications/additional information/interviews, but otherwise, we don't bother.

>>1336968
Can confirm that OSHA is basically rape to companies.

Reported former employer for OSHA violations. I told them about the concerns that I had multiple times. Was brought into Director's office where he was about to fire me, mentioned that I had already contacted OSHA. I was no longer being fired.

Nothing was brought up for another 2 months. I heard from a buddy I knew who worked in the office with director that he was ramping back up to fire me so I applied for FMLA because I needed a surgery. Got it approved by HR.

Got called in again for scheduling 10 days off with sick time in advance as a reason to fire me. Got told that I couldn't use sick time as vacation time and that it violates company policy and that it is grounds for termination. Bring up that I am taking medical leave due to a surgery. He calls HR and then sends me on my merry way.

Finally after all this is done, they finally fire me now like 4 months after I reported them which gained me another years worth of sick and vacation time.

I am still in contact with OSHA for their whistle blower protection. The investigator contacts the company and asks them questions. Mentions that I have a witness who will testify that he was going to fire me due to the OSHA report.

So I go in to talk with HR and agree to drop the whistle blower protection case in exchange for a severance package of 6 months pay.

Plus since they technically fired me for no cause I was able to collect unemployment of 50% wage for 6 months and I collected my vacation and sick time. Overall I got 10+ months of wages for being fired.

I was also contacted by the union that represented our position saying that I could be reinstated to the position because they fired me without clearing it with them first. I was in a two year probation period and not paying union dues. My fire date was something like 3 days past two years. I didn't go back though.

>>1340553
That's terrifyingly typical. Your HR department had grown fat and lazy and you took them to the cleaners because they weren't careful enough to hide the fact that they were trying to rape you.

And all you had to was tell the damn truth without threatening them. It's fucking shocking how many people don't get that.

>>1340575
To be fair, most of the blame here fell on the Director of Operations for being a cocky hothead, not on HR. I just got really lucky a couple of times on timing and the fact that the Director of HR took a different position right at the end of this whole ordeal and the Director of Finances was covering for her and he had no fucking clue what he was doing.

Perfect storm, really. Still worked out great for me, 10 months paid vacation was enough time to get my small business off the ground with almost no risk. The really terrifying part is that I will soon have to start hiring my own employees and be on the other end.

>>1340526
>>1340534

You mentioned individuals with irreplaceable skills and assets get differential treatment.

What are some of the skills and assets you mentioned?

>>1340602
Knowledge of specific weirdly applicable clusterfucks, usually cross discipline. I'm sort of vaguely in that position now because of my education/certs, and experience. I serve as a mediator between groups that do not know how to interact with each other in any known language besides sullen resentment and passive aggressiveness.

A better example would be something along the lines of an engineer with an extensive legal background, who also managed a small company. He knows the material, knows the legal side of really tight regulations, and knows how to manage the engineers. The engineers like him because he understands them and is fair to them. The lawyers like him because he understands them, and because he keeps the engineers from making their lives miserable. Productivity is massively improved because the two groups can communicate what is and is not possible cleanly and concisely.

Sometimes it's just someone who possesses hard to find skills, or very specific knowledge to a niche industry. There's banking jobs out there using cobol. It's a 'dead' language, and it will be discarded, but there's billions of dollars tied up in it because of legacy systems for trust funds and other weird shit that wont go away for 20-30 years at least. They don't want to port over to a new language because changing anything could break everything. Even a bugfix could break things, because it's been patched around. Nobody sane wants to program in cobol. It's a language for turning text into spaghetti. So any person who's up to date on banking regulations, and who knows cobol, let alone being willing to drink heavily enough to write it, is a real rarity. Seriously, fuck cobol.

>>1340526
>It sounds like you are flopping on the handful of interviews that you do get, and it sounds like your resume needs some polishing.

It's not that. I never received an interview in a long time. I actually checked my resume with a bunch of people recently and they told me there's nothing wrong with it. It's probably the fact that the market is too saturated where I live or where I'm applying.

And because you dismissed the rest of the questions, you never answered the most important one:

How do you network if no one wants to get to know you or these networking events turn out into cattle call presentations?

>>1332463
When I've quit shitty jobs I just stopped showing up. Hasn't had any negative effects.

>>1340811
Use a burner email and get setup on linkedin? I say burner because they've been hacked so many fucking times I wouldn't trust them with my real one.

Beyond that, I have no idea. I don't actively network. I maintain contacts, and sometimes I'll be introduced to people at stupid functions and pep rallies I can't manage to excuse myself from. I just don't give a fuck because it's never been necessary, let alone beneficial. Most people aren't worth talking to, and I cannot muster the effort to pretend to give a shit for those that aren't when I'm not on the clock.

I wasn't trying to be dismissive. It's a combination of me not knowing much about the questions, combined with the way you presented those sentences being very synonymous with very non social people I've worked with. If your market is saturated, consider applying to jobs hours away, and offer to move. If you have legitimately marketable skills, and maybe a dash of seniority, some places even pay some moving expenses. You should be doing this anyways in your spare time, even if you are employed, since lateral movements frequently result in substantial pay raises.

I don't know what industry you are in, and if it's not mine there's a good chance I wouldn't even be able to tell you where to get in touch with people in it.

>>1340835
Possibly I live in the Washington,DC area. They tend not to be helpful. Especially federal workers, they don't want to help or they pretend to help by telling me to piss off to usajobs.com

And I work in the IT industry there. I work in the background so I do not get a chance to network with the actual federal employees.

Give notice and just tell them the truth, you got a better job. Nobody expects you to work min wage forever dude.

In a similar situation, worked for this guy for a couple of months, found a better job in a similar field that pays a bit more, what do I tell him? I want to change jobs but I don't want to let him down

>>1332463
Minimum wage jobs only seem important in the same way your first book report in the third grade was important or getting your first girlfriend. After you've had three or four you realize they're nothing special and there's an infinite supply of them just waiting. Minimum wage jobs are as easily replaced as minimum wage workers, that's why I would never take shit from anybody ever because you can just go down the road and get a new job in five minutes. References mean literally nothing for unskilled labor. Most of the "decent" factory jobs I've had that pay between 13-16 an hour to start hired me based exclusively on a five minute interview and a hand shake. Just put your buddy's number down and tell him to pretend to be your old supervisor if you're nervous. 9/10 places will never even ask for a reference and the other ten percent hardly ever follow through beyond a 2 minute phone call.

>>1340907
>Just put your buddy's number down and tell him to pretend to be your old supervisor if you're nervous. 9/10 places will never even ask for a reference and the other ten percent hardly ever follow through beyond a 2 minute phone call.

It's not that difficult to catch a lot of this. Reverse phone lookups exist, and most of your buddies are really easy to bait into saying something retarded with a leading question where you pretend to be looking for something unrelated. Once we know that your reference is bullshit it's an automatic trash.

A lot of places can't be fucked to check this though, even though 90% of the work can be automated as a byproduct of having your information entered into the computer. Facebook trawling, and other lookups in the era of big data is getting scary efficient, and computing is so cheap these days that it's not that hard of a sell to get a few hundred grand spent on this in a big company.

Yeah, we won't catch someone clever, but a clever person is generally a marginally better worker, so we don't care. Most people post everything on facebook, twitter, etc, don't know about privacy settings, and are friends with their 'boss' that's the same age as they are, who coincidentally graduated from the same highschool as they did, and their boss/friend has active warrants, or something equally stupid. When that happens it's pretty obvious whats going on. I'll never cease to be amazed at how fucking stupid people are. Then again, it must work sometimes because I saw that shit all the fucking time.

>>1340947
I'm not applying to minimum wage jobs (graduating in math next year). Is it a red flag to have basically 0 online presence ? Googling my name won't turn up anything. Most of my engineer friends have a more or less maintained Linkedin (that I regularly stalk to keep up with who had an internship/job where). Am I shooting myself in the foot by not being into social networks ? I just assumed Facebook / Linkedin was trash tier and my best bet was through intense networking anyway.

>>1340947
What if I have no references what so over?

>>1341019
That's going to depend on the company you apply to. As long as googling your name doesn't turn up a bunch of news articles about arrests and such, your usually fine.

Some places want facebook. If they ask for your logins, get it in writing, and talk to a lawyer. That's illegal in a lot of places, and you definitely don't want to be working there under any circumstance anyways. That's a telltale sign of an oppressive bureaucratic nightmare. If they just want you to friend them, it's worth having a burner facebook that's heavily locked down and filled with a few benign updates and pointless safe pictures.

>>1341957
For minimum wage grunt, it probably matters very little. For trained stuff, use your teachers/advisors. If you have no experience, character witnesses can help.

>>1342341
Thanks for the response. I am too late to get references for teachers due to graduating a year ago.

>>1342376
*From

>>1342376
Send your advisor/few profs emails to ask.

The worst that happens is they say no, or don't respond.

>>1342399
I'll try.

Last question from me, how fucked am I?
>30 almost 31
>Only work experience is military. From 2004-2009
>School from 2010-2015
>BS in Criminal Justice
>Can't get job in law enforcement because of bad lower back and can't run for shit.
>Bad credit
I applied to home depot, target, and best buy.
No response. Applied to security firm got call an hour later but I need a guard card. In process to get one. I guess I'm going to be a security guard. Thinking of become a truck driver too but I think its going to hurt me in the long run as I get older.

>>1342376
Former employer here. You can put nearly anything there. Employers can call to see if you work there, but nothing else. Hell, most of the time we don't even call. Half the time it's like this
>Hello, I need to see if XXX worked there
>Sorry you have to talk to HR about that
And trust me, no one wants to talk to HR. Even if you do, half the damn time they have to look it up and that can take days.

Even if you were fired, just put where you have worked. Now if you were ever fired, and they ask why you left, be honest. I got fired from being a GM and got hired fairly quickly because I told them straight up what happened and that I learned my lessen. People love honesty.

>>1342416
>>1342420 here
What are you applying for? With that background I would try Asset Protection jobs. They pay great. And apply at every retail place ever. Everyone has AP positions. I'm talking Walmart, Target, Best Buy, Dollar Tree, literally everywhere. And if you can, even out of your area, because the pay's that great.

>>1342420
I agree with being truthful.
>>1342431
I have but no calls. I have been applying for AP jobs but I think my bad credit is keeping me from these types of jobs.

>>1342431
Also, I been applying to entry level position in retail just to fix my credit and buy some suits. The goal is to get in any police department or probations. I'm leaning more towards probations because police leadership are becoming cucks with all the recent events with police.

>>1337738
what cs certs are the best please?

>>1342496
Depends entirely what you mean by best.

Comptia A+ certification is a joke, but most government jobs won't even look at you if you don't have it. MS .net, cisco certs, and various other specialized hardware certs are all useful, but job specific. Cisco CCIEs are like having a masters degree in the internet.

>>1342562
can i just self-study then show up for the test
which one will get me employed first
>live in small town
>inb4 "just move"

>>1332463
>happy at minium wage job
>working plenty of hours and happy
>have good relationship with everyone I work with
>new management
>cut hours to the point I can't afford to live
>talk to management
>tell me it's not their problem
>tell me to just leave and they'll pay me any unused vacation days
>get on choice in this
>few months later
>poor as fuck and no job applications are getting back to me
>get rejected for job seeking benefits
>every week I'm selling my possessions to pay for things
>thinking of killing myself to escape it all

If you want to quit, just leave. They don't care about you.

>>1342601
>they don't care abt you
>paying minimum wage
WAT

I have a question... am I fucked if I practically NO job experience, haven't had a formal job for more than 2 months in the last 12 years, and have no formal education/experience in my area, IT in general (I could work in programming/sysadmin/infosec)?

>>1342684
oh, and I'm 29...

>>1342562
You gave me all that advice. That director I was telling you about is leaving. Lol HR apparently had it in for her and wouldn't promote her.

Apologies in advance for any incoherence. I had a mandatory conference that I couldn't get out of today, and may or may not have walked out with a dollie that coincidentally had about 4 grand in liquor on it, and may or may not be a little shitfaced right now. What I am sure about is that I caught the flu from someone, and will probably need to work light duty from home tomorrow so that the rest of the office doesn't come down sick and get a splitting headache and dizzy spells.

I swear this happens nearly half of the time we have these conferences. I get my flu shots and everything.

>>1343270
You mean she agreed not to get flayed alive in court in exchange for leaving without making so much as a chirp on her way out. From what you've said, I'd put money on her being sat down with a lawyer who essentially threw a phonebook's worth of material at her, and told her that if she didn't agree to their terms she'd be made an example of.

Might be worth sticking around, but definitely be looking around for other jobs, and at the first whisper of something being anything less than perfect in the next year or two, get out. Sometimes the situation is resolved. Sometimes it's not. Is it worth your career to take the gamble?

>>1342579
For certs, yes. They don't care if you have any education, or can even read. You pay to take the test. If you pass, you get the cert.

You are a rare type indeed if you can pass a CCIE without years of experience, but it's not unheard of. comptia A+ is simple to get if you have a pulse and know not to put your dick in electrical sockets. CCNA, .net, and redhat certs are mostly straightforward, but require some level of knowledge.

>>1342684
'Fucked' in that you will have people younger than you, probably viewed as more easily influenced, with more experience than you. Not fucked in the absolute sense. Plenty of people make career jumps in their 30s. You aren't the only fish out of water.

>>1342579
I also get told to "just move" to a low COL if I can't afford to live there. You just can't win.

>>1343325
>'Fucked' in that you will have people younger than you, probably viewed as more easily influenced, with more experience than you. Not fucked in the absolute sense. Plenty of people make career jumps in their 30s. You aren't the only fish out of water.
thanks a lot an0n

>>1343325
If I quit in the most annoying way, like there's 7000 dollars worth of product being delivered and I do it by myself but instead of doing it I just let it all come in then leave, would they be pissed enough to let any future employers know?

>>1343325
I'm not any of the prior anons, but I have a quick question:

How hard would it be for me to just walk in a random wal mart or other large retailer in a big city and get a job? I have an AA degree, a 4-year engineering degree, and one internship for experience. Should I take the engineering degree off my resume? I'm trying to move out of my tiny town in another state and into a city, so I want to get any garbage job I can while I get settled.

>>1333440
why would you want to go back to a job you just quit?

how absolutely boring and self-important is the main guy in this thread. and it just confirms a lot of things for me . thanks for the interesting stories though

>>1344430
There is a very real chance that you could be sued for damage. Most places won't give a shit if you do something because you are incompetent. All they can do is fire you because of legal protections. However, if it's clear that you did something deliberately and with malicious intent, you can be successfully sued for it.

>>1344501
I don't know Walmart's policies. When I did the warehouse stuff, most of our employees were seasonal college age men. For us, being in college, or having an associate was, a bit of a plus. We knew it was short term. You knew it was short term. We knew you were at least functionally retarded instead of full retard. We both knew there would be openings next year. It was mutually beneficial.

However, Walmart probably wants employees that will at least have a chance of sticking around. College grads will move on the instant they get something better, and are probably actively looking. They can be substantially more stubborn and difficult to keep in line, and whether anyone wants to admit they'd try this or not, grads aren't as easily coerced into doing things that they shouldn't. A highschool dropout isn't going to think about being told to do something dangerous. A college grad might argue, and may just report it to the government. Walmart is big enough that they have very thorough policies, but policy has never gotten in the way of shitty management trying to cut corners and screaming at anyone who objects.

You can always misrepresent the truth. Say that you have some college education, and that you are looking to go back in the future to continue, but need a few years off to collect yourself emotionally and financially. Convey that you are looking for long term employment and are dedicated to achieving your goals. If you want to go back for a Masters, this is all objectively true, despite being entirely misleading about your status and long term intentions.

>>1344564
Thank you anon, that was extremely helpful. Your posts are gold.

>>1344564
How could I be sued for damages if there's no damage? Like I know it probably means more than that but I just leave and don't do anything.

>>1345417
Job abandonment can result in damaged goods, or can fuck up deadlines and cost a company money. Depending on the circumstances you could be criminally liable if someone is injured as a direct result of your actions. IE. If you leave a bunch of ice cream on a loading dock in Arizona in July, someone slips on the mess and winds up hurt, then their insurance/the government might come after you. Not only that, but your actions delayed the dock schedule, and several critical shipments were delayed, and they can try to nail you for any fees associated with that. They probably won't win anything other than the more immediate consequences provided that you have a competent lawyer, but how are you going to pay for one?

You have a lot of legal protections as an employee that protect you against legal recourse for incompetence, or shitty customers/clients. For example, a pizza delivery guy cannot be legally forced to pay for pizzas that get rejected, and a waiter cannot be forced to pay for people that walkout of a restaurant without paying. If you abandon your post without notifying anyone, you discard many of those legal protections. People have faced jail time when they've gotten other people seriously injured/killed by walking out like this, and when they do there is very little in the way stopping a company, or their insurance, from suing you to recoup losses. Even if they don't get it all back from you because you have nothing, you can be ruined financially for the rest of your life, and be more or less unemployable, and unable to get a loan, because of nasty judgements that show up on your credit reports for years.

And don't get cute trying to argue that just walking away is doing nothing, and is therefore not an action. Any judge is going to ream you a new asshole if you try that shit in court.

>>1345466
So if I notify that I quit before leaving I'm good? I mean it's a fast food place and it's boxes of cups and small boxes of meat and boxes of fries and crap like that.

>>1345477
Always take the CYA approach and cover your ass.

If you insist on walking out, tell your boss that you are quitting, and immediately text/email them that you quit, as well as doing anything you normally would to clock out for the day. Don't leave a cash register logged in. Don't leave doors unlocked if you aren't supposed to. Don't walk off with company property like uniforms, keys, or other equipment. Give them a few minutes to cover things that need to be attended. Snap a few pictures of you handing back keys, and whatnot.

The last thing you want is for you to be blamed for walking out and starting a grease fire. Even if nothing comes of it, they can waste thousands of dollars, and hundreds of hours of your time.

It's far safer to just finish your shift, and then never show up again.

>>1343325
Thanks again btw.

>You mean she agreed not to get flayed alive in court in exchange for leaving without making so much as a chirp on her way out. From what you've said, I'd put money on her being sat down with a lawyer who essentially threw a phonebook's worth of material at her, and told her that if she didn't agree to their terms she'd be made an example of.

I can only hope so. Admittedly, I imagine that is a large part of her leaving. Supposedly she wanted a job for a dean or provost job and she did not get the interview even and the person who did was wildly under qualified. Whatever the case, she is out the door, and I will do my best to hang on, but I am actively seeking another job.

>Might be worth sticking around, but definitely be looking around for other jobs, and at the first whisper of something being anything less than perfect in the next year or two, get out. Sometimes the situation is resolved. Sometimes it's not. Is it worth your career to take the gamble?

Oh agreed. The manager is an incredible shithead and he may take the director's place. He's incompetent, lazy, and a fart away from being a bigger problem for everyone else. Like I said, I think I'm peeking out the door. I would like more longevity, etc. and I have been here almost year across four jobs (promotions), but I'm getting sick of it.

>>1335162
>House, MD

L U P U S
U
P
U
S

>>1338777
Depends why you're being sacked pal.

I have a colleague whos employment was 'terminated, effective immediately'. This is in a clearing house, so not some shit minimum wage job either.

>>1337738
>Most comp sci graduates cannot code for shit. If you get past the initial stages and get an interview at my company, you'll have to submit pseudocode snippets to solve certain problems. Frankly, I couldn't give less of a shit if you have a degree at that point. If you can code, you're worth looking at. Even if you have no experience with the language we are using, programing is about abstracting things to a level that you can pick up new languages in weeks. So you have to keep a reference manual on your desk. Everyone does, even the people with degrees. Nobody gives a shit if you have to look stuff up. Half the job is pretending you know what you do while learning it on site. It's the age of smartphones, get eboks, and flick through that shit on the job.
I think this never gets repeated enough. I didn't know this until I started working but it's basically the first thing I learned on the job. Before that I was freaking out because I thought the comp sci curriculum was... broken. Like, "there must be a mistake, it's been 2 years and I still don't know how to code anything useful. How am I supposed to develop software 3 months from now?" Turns out I was fretting over nothing.

>>1346461
>>1345495
Oh, and btw, I just found someone who works in an adjacent department that's affiliated with my department is in fact a sexual offender lol. This shit is ridiculous. I think I'm out soon.

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6KB, 213x176px

Get Fired... collect unemployment.

Seriously I have no idea why anyone quits when its easy enough to fuck up bad enough that you get fired.

They are already taking money out of your wages towards unemployment / SS...and its not that hard to apply for it.

- Ask for a raise that you are not entitled to.
- Do work poorly or incorrect multiple times.
- Show up late every single day for a week.. increasing in time.. 10 min - to a hour by day 7.
- cost the company money - but that could be risky.

If you are getting paid under the table -then yea just walk out.

Just dont start working AND collect, or you are going to Jail if they find out.

>>1348124
We don't hire people who can't code. I hire people who can code, or demonstrate the abstract thought process required to code, regardless of what languages they know. It's a real problem with boomer/gen x types, and I say that as a gen x'er. Don't get me wrong, millennials are shitheads, but they aren't any more so than any generation that came before them, just in different ways. Older generations don't understand that these things change so fast that you are required to learn as you go. To them, rigid structure is more important than anything else. For someone stocking fridges in a grocery store, rigid structure is good. For blue color factory work, structure is still often beneficial. For most engineering, particularly anything on the bleeding edge, it's often not. For anything touching software, it's the exact opposite of the case. Any structure, except very abstract concepts like documentation and variable nomenclature, is more often harmful than helpful.

It's a new world that they did not grow up in, and many of them are simply incapable of adapting. Managers want to treat cubicle farms like they did in the 60s and 70s when creative problem solving was the realm of the self made individuals, and most office work involved far more mundane grunt work and paper pushing. That just doesn't work anymore if you want to have a company that does anything efficiently and effectively. Most of the rigid jobs that aren't moving physical shit around can be automated and done largely, if not entirely, by computers. Competent management realizes this, and rewards employees that come up with ways to axe entire divisions and replace them with low cost machines. Shitty management gets upset that their department is shrinking, as if the headcount even a tangential relationship to the productivity and profitability. To them, the simple idea that you might not know everything about your evolving job duties is scary, rather than an ongoing opportunity to lead the pack.

>>1348818
It's worth noting how badly academia has failed in this regard. Most courses go over theoretical abstract concepts, instead of how to bang out efficient serviceable code. The underlying concepts of the theory are important, but it's very rare that we need to give a fuck about turing machines in this day and age. In much the same way as a mechanic doesn't usually need to know how his socket works, and an engineer doesn't need to prove the theories behind the equations he's using, a programmer doesn't need to understand the fundamental assembly language behind his code, or use esoteric constructs and optimizations that are built into modern compilers anyways.

Most schools seem to be stuck in this quantum superposition where their curriculum exists both in the 90s with outdated, bad practices, dead languages, and theories, and in some post modern state where they talk about the latest cloud distributed projects and other magical unicorns that aren't important for static websites. Most jobs out there are nowhere's near either of these extremes, and graduates come out knowing fuck all about how to write things that are practical and secure.

Don't even get me started on UI design. Graphic design majors almost universally need to be lynched because they care about pretty gradients and other fashion trend drivel that should be skinned on top of a good tight UI, while comp sci majors frequently know nothing about presenting information and buttons to people that don't know fuck all about their system. It's a fucking payment system, not a space shuttle.

>>1332463
if you want the reference give notice if you don't care then just stop showing up

>>1348808
If HR are at all competent, this won't work very well. We'll happily let you do a week of late/no shows and document them all. You'll be told that you'll face disciplinary action, for continued misbehavior and then you'll get canned for cause without unemployment. Not to say that you can't do it, it's just a fine line to run along. Some shitty places also backdate paperwork. I've never stayed at a place that started doing that, but most people don't know enough to make any fuss over it and get any gov't bodies involved.

You also need to be in a position of relative financial safety for this to work. Most minimum wage people aren't financially stable at all, and missing a quarter of their hours is enough to force them to start looking elsewhere. If they don't show up, they generally hurt more than we do. Maybe not the case for small stores, but any big box store already assumes that a bunch of employees are going to just go missing on any given day.