Monopolies

>>1263883
Black Swan events kill monopolies

>>1263883
Nothing, because the free market is not perfect and regulations are appropriate to curtail some harmful effects of it.

>>1263883
in free market the monopoly won't happen. the moment the monopoly laxes on the service quality the moment a competitor jumps in.
monopolies form when government tampering allows for great market advantage or outright legislative monopole markets.

>>1263883
>What can the free market do against the monopoly of power companies (those that supply electricity)?
solar panels... you never heard of them? windmills? no? anyone can star

>>1263892
>he really believes this
Topkek.

>>1263883
>How does the free market justify monopolies?

Through the formation of labor Unions, especially public sector Unions.

Ironic.

> 2016. Labor Unions represent monopolies in the purest form.

>>1263892
>>1263894
Careful not to fall for it guys. Blind faith in "the market" is one of the dumbest things you can do.

>B-b-but dumping isn't bad! The market will correct it!
>Pollution and scarcity of resources is corrected by the market because businesses can always move and shit in somebody else's pool and exhaust their resources
>Insider trading is okay because... uhhh... the market!!!

>>1263885
I don't follow

>>1263892
>>1263894
Some companies have too big of a market share to compete. Solar panels and windmills aren't reliable and expensive. How can you get a hold of a market with too high costs?

>>1263892
>monopolies form when government tampering allows for great market advantage or outright legislative monopole markets.

i.e. Labor Unions

>>1263911
"When companies sign contracts to guarantee a service at a price we call it good business.

When an individual join a union and signs a contract to perform a service at a given price, we call it extortion."

-A. Faggot

>>1263911
>>1263906
How are labor unions a monopoly exactly? They advocate for workers rights. I don't understand.

>>1263908
high cost because low demand economy of scale bitch.
>>1263907
market can correct a great number of things. some things it only corrects long term.
obviously environmental concerns must be addressed and any pollution taxed so that the company has a vested interest in green technology.
a great example what should not be a monopol market is gambling. in my country gambling is state monopoly and leased to only a handful of companies. this kind of interference pretty much only breeds corruption.
insider trading happens no matter what you do. you can't stop it i don't say you need to make it legal but you can't stop it.

>>1263914
Ssshhh, he's a /pol/ shitposter

>>1263914
They're implying that unions are given too strong of a negotiating position.

They are being disingenious and ignorant of labor laws that clearly dictate the terms of collective bargaining and work stoppages and lockouts that are still very favorable to businesses.

So yeah, why not cut eachother's throats in a race to the bottom? The market will fix it.

>>1263916
>insider trading happens no matter what you do. you can't stop it i don't say you need to make it legal but you can't stop it.
Well guys, this anon says you can't stop it or do anything to curb it, so fuck it! Let's just give up like China and let the whole markets succomb to corruption! Those are some hot opinions you got there m8.

>>1263916
There is always a high demand for energy, whether is for people or companies. The distribution and production costs, however, are high, so that not everyone can enter the market, thus granting free access to big power corporations to establish the price they want.

>>1263914

holy shit moron

Monopolizing labor as well as production is Econ 101 shit.

Fucking ignorant /biz/ high school dropouts...

>>1263916
Wow, so you seriously gave up trying to defend your already weak reasoning that easily?

>>1263924
Which is why there are lots of state and federal regulations on setting the price of energy and rate increases.

See? The market fixed it. Durp.

>>1263923
no i'm just saying minimal effort catch the imbeciles and all. you won't catch the big ones anyways. it doesn't happen.
>>1263924
what i wanted to write you can always start a local power company if the big corps start to get nasty with their monopoly.
so long you can't actually beat them on your scale their monopoly is useful not detrimental.
>>1263926
what makes you say that kid?

>>1263929
>minimal effort
Oh boy lol. You really are young.

>>1263929
>Admitting that the market is imperfect and unfair because insider trading exists
>Proceding to then say "welp, the market can't stop it or do anything to stop it, so we better just leave it"
>But the market is perfect and balances everything out guys
How do you cope with such cognitive dissonance?

>>1263929
>what is Enron
What's up with all these dumb free market faggots on /biz/? I was hoping this place would be a little more enlightened.

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>>1263883

we used to have multiple suppliers of power. it led to stuff like this.

>>1263925
Labor Unions REPRESENT workers. They help people negotiate prices with companies that would otherwise take advantage of them because they don't know about economics or weren't lucky enough to have had an education. It can't still see the harm for the workers.
>>1263928
You mean the goverment fixed it.

>>1263929
Starting a local power company requires a bit of money and people aren't going to trust you. Plus, there is always the dumping.

I've opened this debate because I can't seem to find a solution. I've always been a fan of the free market but I can't argue against monopolies. So I'm playing devils advocate

>>1263940
>You mean the goverment fixed it.
I was being ironical, amigo.

>>1263935
it's not the market that says insider trading is a problem it's stupid fucks like you. market works just fine anyways.
>>1263940
>Starting a local power company requires a bit of money
depends on the scale really, the way i see it it's easily doable.

Monopolies are a product of government intervention, namely government protection of property and IP rights. Without those, monopolies would be unable to form, as competitors would more easily form and be, well, competitive.

>>1263948
exactly protectionism and corruption and government intervention results in monopolies.
i have yet to see a monopoly form without them.
i have seen however that in less regulated fields small businesses thrive. i can't even count how many bike shops are in the city where i live for example. hundreds at least.

>>1263943
>The market says insider trading is a-okay
No it doesn't. Equal access to information is a big part of the free market .

I have a question for you though.
What do paint chips taste like?

>>1263951
Brah, you can't build an economy on bike shops and dry cleaners.

>>1263943
>it's not the market that says insider trading is a problem it's stupid fucks like you. market works just fine anyways.
You mean it works fine, now, right? You take off those regulations and remove the agencies that monitor and police the market and you have a literal shitshow. Everybody would be trying to use every single shred of inside connections they can and every company would be misreporting revenue to rape shareholders of their investments. You would not be able to trust anything that was reported and nobody without direct connections to each organization will be able to make a move in the market fast enough. There is a reason that the market has grown to the size it has today and its mostly because of investor confidence. Enron almost did tank it fucking completely though. People were sitting with their dicks in their hands saying "wtf do we do about this?". The government had an answer. SOX.

>>1263952
the market doesn't care get it thorough your thick head. it works just fine either way. i mean it works right now and the prevalence of insider trading is extremely high. many have studied it and concluded it's not a market failure.

>>1263967
So they taste that good, huh?

>>1263963
>You mean it works fine, now, right? You take off those regulations and remove the agencies that monitor and police the market and you have a literal shitshow.
anon i seriously don't think they are as effective as you think they are... in fact i think the opposite. i have no proof it's just stuff i overheard from people heavily in the stock trade. without insider info they don't even look at anything.

>>1263969
no idea what you are on but must be helluva drug.

>>1263967
>prevalence of insider trading is extremely high.
Citation needed. It's all relative. It doesn't matter how high the prevalence is. What matters is the percieved amount of insider trading by the public. They can pit up with a certain amount as long as they feel it is curbed and the government is combating it. If you remove that perception, then you destroy investor confidence.

>>1263943
Describe your bussiness plan.


>>1263970
They give a sense of security to the investor, which keeps investment flowing

Well, considering that the majority of our modern monopolies were created by government regulations and not the free market, I'd say the free market doesn't really have anything to do with it.

>>1263970
>in fact i think the opposite
Well thats because youre an idiot. You dont have one smart thought in that whole noggin of yours.

>>1263985
>Well, considering that the majority of our modern monopolies were created by the corruption of government regulations by businesses/corporations/industries

FTFY

>>1263980
>They give a sense of security to the investor
false sense in many instances, basically it all boils down to personal belief in the end. it is what moves the markets.
>>1263980
>Describe your bussiness plan.
let's say the community of a small village don't like the energy provider. they create a company where villagers are shareholders and build a dual power plant. basically a field planted with solar panels. the production of electricity of course is uneven they will sell it during the day and buy back during the night in the simplest form when no complimentary means of power production are there. as a company they are very likely going to get the electricity at a discount especially as it falls to the off hours.

>>1263997
That sounds an awful lot like protectionism to me. Why do you hate the free market, man?

>>1263997
Who gives a shit if it is a false sense? Its better than no sense at all by magnitudes.

>>1264003
sounds like free enterprise to me tho.
>>1264017
i disagree, sometimes you can assess risk better without preconceptions or baseless promises from the government.

>>1264024
>assess risk better
Kek. Who the fuck is going to be assessing this risk in a free market? External auditors go byebye. They are only here because of regulation, remember? No company is going to allow external auditors to look at their books, are you serious? Even if they did it would be books that were purposely cooked to show favorable progress. I dont think youre thinking this through too well...

>>1264024
I agree, it's a false sense of security. But keeps the mass from freaking out. I like the bussiness plan. You enlightened me, sir. Thank you

>>1264050
it's quiet simple if they don't let trusted auditors or rating organizations in then nobody buys their bonds and shares. no bank gives them any loan. they pretty much destined to die. in a free market it is in their best interest to cooperate.

>>1264062
>trusted auditors
You havin a little giggle, m8? There's nothing to keep businesses accoubtable for giving auditors cooked books.

>>1264062
not to mention not cooperating is a signal in itself it tells everyone to drop it like a hot potato because something is fishy.

>>1264068
you make it sound like this shit doesn't happen all the time. you also make it sound like the big fish get caught. what happened recently here is a guy who have been leading the government auditors by their noses for 15 fucking years got finally arrested but a year in the process the lead prosecutor dies suddenly and tragically of young age and the entire case seems to be going sideways and everything points to the dude eventually walking. he is not out yet but public opinion is it's just a matter of time.

that's some great government action right there. well the usual really.

>>1264077
Youre too fucking stupid to talk to right now. Maybe after this movie I will have a little more patience with your retardation. I'll be hack in like an hour or so. During that time think about the utter and complete idiocy of everything you just posted.

>>1264084
you are trying to argue against reality. things that happen around us every fucking day everywhere.
good luck with that.

>>1264089
forgot to add "statist scum"

>>1263990
>corruption of business meme
Last time I checked, politicians make the legislation.

>>1263883
A perfect market wont have monopolies and here is why: (Natural monopolies might form depending on the level of free market).

1. All agents in a free market are maxing utility
2. All agents have perfect information
3. MC=MR

economics 101

>>1263883
cause monoplies are what lead to free markets and command economies are just a government imposed monoply instead of people imposed

>>1263913

Yes we do call it extortion because their true power often comes from government tampering.

Bus drivers can strike two weeks a year unless employer meets their demand of a 50% pay increase.

Why can't the bus company fire these cucks and give the job to any one of hundreds of low wage workers who would happily take them

>Government intervention

Drivers can strike for as long as they like and it is illegal to impose any repercussions on them.

>>1263921

Look at what is happening with Tram drivers in Dublin right now, they have already held five or six full day strikes this year, shutting down the transport grid.

>>1264157
>Bus drivers can strike two weeks a year unless employer meets their demand of a 50% pay increase.
No they can't. It has to go to mediation first and if they're not bargaining in good faith(like a 50% raise) any strike that occurs will be considered illegal, an injunction will be issued to force them back to work, if they do not return to work they will lose their jobs or even face penalties.

I'm sorry that you know nothing about collective bargaining or unions.

>>1264135
Yep,and surrounded by hundreds of Lobbyists representing "corporate interests" which has more say than the American public

>>1264179
exactly
less government = less corruption = less wasteful spending = less dead weight on the economy = better for everyone

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>>1264234
Wow, I'm totally sold! Why don't we just let corporations runs everything with no watchdogs whatsoever! It totally won't be like pic related

High barriers of entry. Duke Energy and BGE are monopolies because the infrastructure is so expensive and labor intensive to set up that nobody else does it