future with gold

>>1233996
you can't secure shit with gold

Buy some each month? Nobody knows, if they did the prices would adjust accordingly.

Also, for the love of god, don't buy unallocated gold.

What is unallocated gold?

>>1234087
paper gold

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>>1234035

>>1234035

don't listen to this shit. it's like people saying that the world is fucked because we can't pay all the debt... It's not meant to do that.

We also perfectly know that if every gold owner asks for it, 90% of owners are fucked, but still we value it world wide so it's worth something.

For you op >>1233996
gold is a solid investing move on the long term. my pro tip will be to buy it in YENS because dollars can make you loose more. will detail if necessary.

>>1235183
>buy yen

No thanks, I'm not a weaboo

>>1235204

buy gold in yen, dumb fuck

>>1235207
I don't understand, is there a price parity or something?

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>>1235210

pic related

>>1233996
gold will go down to it's normal state in 2018
2016/7 you'll see the bull trap

>>1235183
Buying unallocated gold completely contradicts the entire purpose of buying gold. If the purpose of buying gold isn't safety, not to make extra bucks. Why not just shorting?

Compound interest

>>1235220
so this basically means "buy gold and also short euro/yen at the same time" right?

>>1235242

Why, because the world will collapse next year?
someone who did it 1 year ago made a safe investment, same goes for 5/10/20/30 years ago.

I am prepare to say that it's plain dumb but u'll need to prove me how and not by saying "if you don't own physically the gold its worth shit" because thats just not the world we live in anymore.

>>1235244

pretty much, it all depend on your profile at that point. if like OP you want secure just buy gold in yen, the risk is minimize. if you want to go further, short yen, even more profit will be shorting the euro but the risk is now something to consider.

>>1234789
>>1234035
Is BullionVault considered paper gold?
They say it's allocated, but i don't really trust them.

>>1235496
most trustworthy paper gold is probably GLD or IAU

Etfs have dedicated auditors whom I hope are doing their job well

>>1235499
But whats your thoughts on BullionVault.

Is it worth having gold there, or should i have it physically?

>>1235502
looks alright man. low chance of fraud if their UK auditors are good

go for it

but it is still "paper gold"

>>1235508
Yeah, my thoughts too. I just hear so many people saying 'if you dont have it physically, it's not yours'.

I currently have a 3kg of gold physically, but i also want to buy silver... but its not feasible to have 200kg of silver buried in my back yard.

>>1235502
I have gold with BullionVault. It is allocated gold and I would not call it paper gold.

I guess if I were to rank the physicality of gold, it would go like this, in order form most physical to most virtual:

1. In your hand. You better have a lot of guns and stuff to keep the bad guys away.

2. In a vault that you own. You better have a lot of money to build a seriously secure vault and have the armed personnel to guard it.

3. Allocated good delivery gold bars in either a bank vault or a well-known, private vault (Brinks, VIA MAT).

4. (Maybe 3-a?) BullionVault. BullionVault is allocated but since it's not necessarily allocated per person on a good delivery bar basis, it could be a pain. However, you can redeem physical gold in relatively small quantities. (100 grams, I think).

5. Physical gold in a trust such as PHYS.

Everything else is totally unallocated and subject to lending out gold, hypothecation, rehypothecation, etc.

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Should I be buying up physical silver right now with the way things look to be going?

>>1235747
no
buy (preferred) shares of mining companies that benefit from high silver prices

>>1235799
And these would be?

>>1235804
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=publicly+traded+silver+mining+companies

>>1235799
>>1235804
don't do this. mining stocks have been some of the worst preforming stocks in the history of stocks. most mines barely make a profit.

>>1235828
thats why i said (preferred)
preferred shares aren't about equity gains but income gains, which are two different things

So does anyone else think silver may be in for a price correction soon?

I mean the long term trend is positive, but the short term one just screams overbought.

>>1235747
it's what i do i figure this low price can't go on for long or there will be serious shortage of silver as mines are doing really bad.

>>1235799
mining companies can go bankrupt any day i wouldn't touch their stocks with my own money.
if they become penny stocks you can speculate if by some miracle they turn profit. but first silver must lift. if you put your money in silver you profit from mining companies go belly up if you put it in stocks you can lose everything.

maybe you can mix them up but i don't know how to find the right ratio.

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>>1236047
>>1236046

>>1235828

Why are people like you giving advice? wtf?
gold/silver mining stocks were an absolute buy in January/February demonstrating a strong breakout pattern.

>>1236192
you don't seem to get what makes silver mining profitable (and i never talked about gold).
the thing that makes silver mining profitable is silver doubling in price.
now if you buy mining stocks they will climb somewhat not as much as silver mind you as being profitable is only part of the company's value they have many assets.
same amount of money in silver will double yours. and the risk is minimal compared to mines which can go bell yup any day.

now if silver does not go up then mining stocks can crash while silver price will just go down and you have to wait sooner or later they will go up.

it's not that complicated don't just look at the charts think.

>>1236207

>now if you buy mining stocks they will climb somewhat but not as much as silver mind you

I can't really take the rest of your argument seriously. It may in fact be correct.

You say not to over rely on charts, but the facts in the details of the charts refute your claim above.

SLV - Silver Commodity tracking ETF
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=SLV+Interactive#{"useLogScale":true,"range":"3mo","didDisablePrePost":true,"allowChartStacking":true}

First Majestic Silver Mining - One of my favorite pieces of the portfolio

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AG+Interactive#{"useLogScale":true,"range":"3mo","didDisablePrePost":true,"allowChartStacking":true}

Can you still tell me that silver mining stocks will only climb "somewhat"? Mind me of course.

>>1235546
dude you're going to be so fucking loaded after a economic reset

>>1236244
no you don't get it. i'm not saying that in short term it can not surpass the silver price change as stocks are more about anticipation. and commodity is more about supply and demand.
so in the short run it can but it won't when silver spikes. stocks will not even come close imo. but what do i know. and then there are the risks which are very different.

it's not impossible to me that stocks will outperform silver spot i still wouldn't buy them unless i know for a fact that silver will keep up. the liquidity for fine silver and stocks will be totally different if the price is pushed down again.

I think Gold is a good buy.. It will probably run to $1400 dollars this year. It's a good trade.

>>1236244
btw i'm convinced that the long silver price manipulation was a ploy to buy silver mining stocks for cheap. if they are done with it the price might get loose. however probably more than one group shorted the shit out of silver for various reasons. so it's possible it might not be a smooth ride.

>>1236244
the stock prices are at a level where they were last time when silver was $20 or more. and silver is not near $20 the silver spot going up seems to be already priced in.

which just makes me think this is even more true: >>1236262

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>>1236257

>so in the short run it can but it won't when silver spikes. stocks will not even come close imo

Do you just enjoy lying to people on the internet? lol.

Silver 10 year chart - Commodity spot price pic related.

Same Mining company as before - First Majestic 10 year chart

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AG+Interactive#{"useLogScale":true,"range":"10y","didDisablePrePost":true,"allowChartStacking":true}

Your rhetoric is suggesting a disrupted correlation between silver mining stocks and silver commodity spot price? Look at the charts, anyone can see there is a high correlation. If you are really curious, you can compute an R^2.

Looking at the silver miner chart, an argument can actually be made that the mining stock has been less Volatile.

It's my opinion that owning physical is 1000X more preferable than owning paper non allocated PM, but to say that you shouldn't buy mining stocks based on "stories" and not facts; that I think is a farce.

I think you consult charts more often, albeit this new NIRP environment does change the game going forward quite a bit.

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>>1233996
How am I doing /biz/ ?

>>1236286
doing good anon, see you on the glorious side of the fence when incoming collapse happens

>>1236286
How much is that worth at the moment?

>>1233996
Gold is a very risky investment. Why would you "secure financial future" with it?

What are you even looking for? Safe or ultra safe investment that will beat the inflation? Investment that will trade security for furthering the value of assets?

>>1236279
>Silver 10 year chart - Commodity spot price pic related.
>Same Mining company as before - First Majestic 10 year chart
did you even compared the prices on the two chart? mining stock prices go up to 16 now at 10 silver goes up to 50 now at 17 guess which one can break out and which is already near the top? to me stock prices right now vastly outperformed silver in perspective but i don't think they will go much higher silver on the other hand will.
>there is a high correlation
yeas i see that mining stocks are more volatile but also more constrained and more risky. i see no reason to buy them now should have bought them when they were $2 i agree in retrospect i wouldn't have then tho.

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>>1235256
> Gold
> Safe investment
US bonds, Certificates of Deposits, TIPS and municipal bonds are safe investments. Gold is a commodity, and in 70s swung its price from 35 to 850, implying a massive risk.

>>1236368
Thanks greatest ally!

>>1236368
>US bonds
>Safe investment
kek
>Certificates
>Safe investment
double kek

you win anon i can't go on anymore my sides fell off.

>>1236368

/biz/ did find his king today.

>gold is shit
>certificates are dope

you are a good investor. Harvard maybe?

>>1236396
US bonds, in the long term, have time and again shown themselves to be among the safest investments existing on the planet.

Certificates are literally risk free up to 250 000. For small time investors, it represents a completely safe investment discounting a systemic risk. But again, if you fear systemic risk, why would you invest in anything at all?

>>1236400
I did not say that gold is shit or that certificates are dope. I said that gold is not a particularly safe asset and that certificates are. Safety/risk has nothing to do with the quality of the investment, just with the overall strategy and expectations of portfolio.

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>>1236420

>gold is not a particularly safe asset

please tell us more of your secrets master

>>1236420
us is on the verge of defaulting on it's bonds. certificates don't need a systemic failure to go belly up either.

>>1236438
> Cherrypicked chart during a commodity boom
Is Oil a safe investment due to 2002-2007 prices? Coal because of 1820-1890? No.

Also, safety implies low return of investment. Linear or exponential growth, even when sustained, is not safe by any means. It might be smart, profitable, sustainable and/or fun, but lets not confuse prosperous and safe.

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>>1236458
yeah but US is doing relatively well compared to europe, which is a COMPLETE nutcase

>>1236458
If you believe that U.S is on the verge of defaulting, I wonder why you want to invest in an economic system that is build around U.S treasire in the firsts place.

Certificates under 250 000 need a systemic failure, because U.S laws guarantee them. If U.S government and/pr treasure go bust or undo this, the economic system essentially breaks down.

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>>1236465

safe only means that you will probably never go flat.

>>1236475
And gold does not have the luxury to be called safe with this definition except on limited time series

>>1236472
>why you want to invest in an economic system that is build around U.S treasire in the firsts place.
who said i want to?
i have to but i'm freaking out almost every week.

>>1236047
any company can go bankrupt any day...
you're a fucking scared retard that needs to keep his mouth shut
you give extremely bad advice

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depends who you ask

seems pricey right now considering we're in a nearly deflationary environment

>>1236664
>any company can go bankrupt any day...
yeah but not all had so many bad years as silver miners.
>you're a fucking scared retard that needs to keep his mouth shut
uhm nope, i just think us is going down the drains and i didn't found the countries and companies that will surely benefit from this and not get crushed. so i don't invest in stocks right now. also the stock market in general is overpriced overinflated with the money printed. so right now i wouldn't buy the more liquid safer stocks anyways.

>>1236699
nano gold transistors (if they work and be useful) require microscopic amount of gold it won't cause a gold shortage lol.

>>1236517
>>1233996
Silver is a good alternative, not 1300 a round, so don't have to worry about losing one and crying, can hide in many seperate places, still small enough to store, more industrial use, has a LOT higher to go (didn't bubble/ rise as much as gold"

>>1236368
You realise many countries at the moment are defaulting on bonds.

Hyperinflation is also occuring.

Both of these things make your bonds worthless.

Good luck.

>>1236420
What happened in the 1930s? I forgot

>>1236798
> Many countries
I spoke of U.S bonds. When U.S defaults, well, there is no economy to speak off.

Also hyperinflation is not occuring in any major economy right now.

>>1236802
World trading system in 1930s was based around different ruleset and was mostly dependant on gold price. After Nixon though, U.S dollar and Fed have been the source of money. The system just cannot have U.S default; no sane politician, economist or Fed chair would allow it to happen.

>>1236769
jesus you're deluded as fuck
have you seen the deals going on right now? insanely cheap prices

>>1236769
> Stock market is overinflated
But stock market cannot by definition be overinflated. It is a marketplace that defines the value of publicly traded companies.

>>1236811
The US is going to lose their currency as the world reserve and another country is going to take it. Then they are going down the shitter. Countries are already trying to move away from the US dollar

>>1236820
>us currency reserve tinfoil bullshit that's been spouted by alex jones for the last twenty fucking years

>>1236823
lol world reserve currencies dont last much longer than 50ish years and the its long overdue a switch. Screen shot this for when it happens

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>>1236827

Here is some real advice buy after a crash dweep

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>>1236771
i know...

i was using that as an example of the monumentally stupid advice you get depending who you ask. something like, say your advice, throughout this entire thread

>>1236827
So, you are using a historical argument when there has been three world currencies or so since 1820s?

>>1236867
well i'm here to learn i throw in the ideas that get stuck in my head and actually considering everything you guys say i argue so that i better understand counter arguments.
i have heard a hundred times that stocks are overpriced or overvalued and that silver mining can't be profitable at these prices.
what i put together from these is what i posted.

>>1233996
what ? you think precious metal is somekind of crypto currency ? there isn't a dip, maybe micro dips, but usually you hold for years, minimum 2 years.

>>1236816
stock prices fell hen as the money printing started they basically followed the currency in circulation. that is what i meant overinflated. they are overvalued by the currency not by business going well. they just got literally inflated.

>>1236874
i would say there are large dips lasting for decades if you look at historic inflation adjusted charts. buy at the right time and don't have to hold it for a year on the other hand.

>>1236879
good luck with that, i'd suggest hiring a fortune teller.

>>1236872
>i'm here to learn
>i learn by parroting bullshit

kek mistakes were made

>>1236811
Just because something hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it wont.

All i'm saying is that bonds are not 100% safe. There is a risk.

>>1233996
IF USA defaults on some of its debt NO BIG THING. just do it already!!! stop with the Socialist policies.

>>1235181
Take it elsewhere nazi islam lover!

>>1236286
how long did it take you to build that?

>>1236872
Stocks cant be overpriced. They are the liquid reflection of the company's value.

>>1236876
You are saying that the currenvy is overvalued.

Again, FIAT currencies are liquid. Their value in markets is reflected very soon. In 1300s France, merchants took 13-16 months to find out about money printing. In modern economies, its days. What you think is that the economy for some reason is not aware of this, which would be farther from truth.

You see, FED does not print money. It grants loan. The difference between the two is huge. And also the monetarist theory of inflation resulting from money supply changes can and has been challenged in past years based on our simultaneous expansion of supply and lack of inflation.

>>1237389
no they are not, and yes they can be overpriced in many ways. most common measure is the 10 year dividend/price ratio.

>>1237392
>based on our simultaneous expansion of supply and lack of inflation
this is where i have my doubts anon. it's a ticking time bomb. and also you can have hidden inflation when they hack the shit out of the official basket and all the currency goes into stocks and bonds.

>>1237593
If it is a ticking time bomb, what indicates that? What is the theory, the evidence?

>>1237595
well the fact that they discontinued the m3 money stock statistics because the projected value is more scary than what people would dare to look on should tell you there are huge problems. when in a few years the total money stock goes through the sky and you don't see hyperinflation of prices you know you are sitting on a bomb. or at least i think so.

>>1233996
Be like me, OP, wear it instead.

Looks like silver just dropped. Will it go lower this month or has it hit its bottom?

>>1237392
>You are saying that the currenvy is overvalued.
that's not relevant to my argument no.
i said that the printed money went straight to the stock prices wand they elevated without having any real productivity behind them.

Diversify with low volatile high yield bonds

>>1236823
What about the BRICS NDB and the gold backed Yuan? How are these not blatant moves against the USD dominance?

>>1237622
>china
>restricting their economy to the value of gold
>a smart move

>>1237626
Their new currency has strick stipulations that it cannot be redeemed for or exchanged with USD, don't you think that's significant? Why else would they be accumulating such high physical holdings, come out with a gold backed Yuan and an alternative banking system if not to eventually dump the USD?

>>1236368

It went from 35 to 400 because they finally let the market decide the value instead of the London Gold Pool manipulating it. It then hit 850 due to an unstable market.

If you want to talk about massive risks, you'd be closer to correct if you slapped that label on silver. Silver has always been more volatile than gold, since it's used much more in manufacturing and medical supplies than gold.

If you believe that bonds in fiat U.S dollars are truly worth anything in the long term, and believe gold is a "massive risk" compared to those fucking fiat bonds, you need to invest in some high speed lead pointed directly at your empty dome.

>>1237635
>restricting the 2nd largest economy to the value of gold

>>1237639
the reason why gold went above 400 is the same reason gold got to 400: market manipulation. american policy allowed for interbanks to hoard physical gold, manipulating supply, drawing price up. the fed had talked about reversing the policy, in which you see the price of gold go down as these banks are starting to dump their risk

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>>1237652

Manipulation, sure. But downwards, not up. Once the market was allowed to determine value, the price rose. It has never been anywhere near as low as $35 an ounce since we went off the Bretton Woods system.

And what's your logic as to why so many nations are repatriating their gold, if it's such a risk relative to pieces of paper with words and numbers on them which you can hand over for more pieces of paper with words and numbers on them?

Do people really unironically believe that the dollar is invincible, we can print as many as we want, we can spend as much as we want, and it will be sustainable? Infinite growth?

>>1237677
I'm not sure what you're responding to. Though, usually, you sell excess positions. (ie: you have an allocated 5% of your holdings for gold, gold goes up, now gold is 6% of your holdings, so you sell gold until you're at your allocated 5%.)

Diversify with low volatility high yield stocks

>>1233996
Another observation:
>FIAT currency is despised by Socialists
>Gold backed currency is their choice.
>Both gold and FIAT are embraced by capitalists equally