If i had a dollar for every time socialism worked, i would have 0 dollars
Ironically if socialism did work I would still have 0 dollars
Someone has never heard of social security, which was a sound institution for quite some time. Ever heard of minimum wage? Yeah, that's a socialist concept. You are a fucking moron...
>inb4 but muh capitalism
The pure form of any economic philosophy (capitalism, socialism, communism, etc.) is bad. Capitalism by itself isn't good. Socialism by itself isn't going to work. Same with communism. There needs to be a balance, and the fact you are putting socialism in a bad light is more than hypocritical. It's far worse. You're making people think it's bad... and that is far from the truth. Stop propagating misinformed opinions...
>there are people who actually think real communism has been tried
>there are people who actually think communism wouldn't devolve into anarchy or turn back into capitalism
I don't know which is funnier
>actual intelligent posts on /b/
Have I walked onto the wrong board?
If you think that bastard would do anything resembling that weak and pathetic model, you are very naive.
Higher standard of living, universal healthcare, free university, score higher than the us in life expectancy, happiness, etc. and have mandatory military for 1-2 years after high school so they're not all fat pieces of shit.
Shut up you weak piece of shit.
Yeah good luck getting that to work in the US. We've got 300 million people compared to Swedens 10 million. You can't just scale everything up and assume it'll work flawlessly.
no you don't get it literally every single thing that has ever been described as socialist is LITERALLY soviet communism including all of the evil shit any communist has ever done
because Marx said so
but everything else he said is wrong
Not that guy but find me a nation that matches the contents of The Communist Manifesto
watch this you unloved child you
you do know America already Implement socialist behaviors
such as having a
disaster response force
public education system
public owned land
Claiming that Capitalists have stockholm syndrome is ignorant, arrogant and hateful. Of course, if you're a liberal then that's basically just Tuesday for you. Agree with me or you're dumb, right?
you compare that unsuckled baby-man conspiracist with john?
just poking my head in here to point out the irony
you just said it's wrong to generalize a whole group of people then you follow that up by generalizing a whole group of people
>implying that anything beyond anarchy is socialism
not capitalist, just dumbed down, indebted proud americans
Too bad hillary and DWS cucked bernie. Poor old man.
>denying that labeling police & militaries as "socialism" is anything more than a retarded attempt to equate all non-anarchy as socialism
>BUT THEY DIDNT TRY MUH BRAND OF COMMUNISM / SOCIALISM
>MY KIND WOULDVE WORKED! YOULL ALL SEE!
>proceeds to buy another Che t-shirt from hot topic, feeding capitalist fatcats they claim to hate while posting on their iphones and samsung S8s, using facebook and privatized communication brokers to soap-box their drivel
I'm not an American, so I was never part of OWS. But know that you are hated atop your ivory tower, and you will get your just deserts. Unless you're one of those bottomfeeding cucks who thinks himself better than the poor, in which case your time will come sooner than you think
No, he's right. Social programs are when the rich grudgingly pay out a small share of their expropriated wealth to keep the poor from murdering them. Socialism is when that power derived from private ownership of capital no longer exists. Social programs are designed to PREVENT socialism.
Private ownership of the means of production is a different thing than democratically enacted social welfare programs in order to alleviate the symptoms of capitalism and prevent leftism from gaining popularity. When leftism has gained popularity, we get things like Nazi Germany.
>inb4 some retard actually replies with the "we are socialists" quote that wasn't even said by Hitler
>thinking sanders is a communist
>MUH BRAND OF COMMUNISM
You mean actual communism?
if the us is 20 trillion in debt and bernie sanders promised free healthcare and college who would pay it considering the amount of spending isnt keeping up with the gdp?
asking for a friiend
And you bought that book in a book store or on amazon, furthering the lifeblood of capitalism.
That's what I find most funny. Communists and socialists are cucked from the very first taste of their first-year-at-college ideologies.
>they are on top of all lists in happiness, equality, well-being, etc.
They also support less than 100 million people.
Shocker: Socialists and communists do not even consider the difficulties in logistics scaling.
you just describe socialism when you describe social program are you really that disconnected
and if you are that disconnected let this be a learning point when people say socialism what they mean is the proper implementation of social programs
>comparing small european countries with the US
you people are so cringeworthy, pathetic and impossible to take seriously. nobody cares who you hate even a tiny bit.
come get me faggot. i'm waiting. otherwise just shut up and stop making yourself look even sillier.
I'm not coming for you. But your asshole nature of stepping on the poor will be your undoing.
For people who make a habit out of taking from others, it's only matter of time before they take from the wrong person
who said marx is our ideal? you're the one who says we're communists, which we're not. you just need a strawman to attack so you can feel justified in being a retard.
>implying amazon would disappear
you have no idea what sanders is trying to do. it's not anti-capitalist, it's just capitalism, but with universal healthcare and shit.
i bet you blame black people for not getting pussy too huh?
No, that's entirely wrong. Socialism is fundamentally anti-capitalist (or better, post-capitalist). I don't know what you mean by "disconnected", but the idea that socialism is about social programs is typically disseminated by people who don't want anti-capitalism being discussed. The puppets of capitalists want to pay you off so you'll settle down and they can keep their power.
We already tried the social programs route in America - it was called the New Deal. Now we're right back to the Guilded Age. Social democracy is a fool's trap - be smarter than that.
>who said marx is our ideal? you're the one who says we're communists, which we're not. you just need a strawman to attack so you can feel justified in being a retard.
Oh I don't know, you want Lenin's endless revolution style of communism? The one where an incalculable amount of people starved?
Pol Pot's? The one where 5 million starved?
Mao's? The one where an estimated 200 million starved?
okay you are disconnected and by disconnected I mean you have a disconnect with your personal information and views and the information and views of other people who are not in your bubble
socialism requires capitalism to exist like a parasite needs a host. the reverse is not true.
there is so much dead weight that needs to be cut off, probably including you. you don't know how lucky you are capitalism is facilitating your useless existence.
are you going to fight strawmen all day, or actually talk like an adult?
what do you call it when you support captialism and business that supports citizens but have concerns when businesses support other businesses and corporations cease needing to serve the needs of citizens
The anti globalism vibe resonates with me because the only times I really see stuff going to shit is when businesses start playing international hide the pickle and local legislation can't touch it.
Also only supporting the stock market as much as needed to keep it from going underground were it outlawed and keep the tax base.
>in b4 ineffective import controls and tarifs regulating anything
capitalism has done more to help the poor than anything else in human history. living standards for everyone including the poor skyrocketed because of capitalism.
you are so deeply deluded i don't know if there's hope for you.
Yeah why would anybody be STUPID enough to think that Socialism, an economic system that Marx himself said was the transitional phase to Communism in the Communist Manifesto, was at all related to ebil Commienism and BAD?!
Fuck off dumbasses, you'll just keep losing over and over and calling yourselves intelligent.
I still don't know what you mean by "disconnected". What bubble are you talking about? I'm happy to discuss what I know about socialist writers and thinkers and the long history of socialism that started with a rejection of the 18th century bourgeois revolutions, which failed to bring about the egalitarianism they promised.
Are you talking about European socialism? European socialism used to be evolutionary socialism, which has by now proven itself to be a fuck-the-global-poor dead end of social democracy that will last only until the next wave of capitalist crisis.
Half of orange County loves him. Maybe if you left Starbucks and talked to people in places other than your junior college gender studies class you would open your fucking eyes
no one says your dad bought that car if your driving a civic.
no one says your delts are small if you dont lift.
no one calls you ugly if your not dating a hot chick.
stay broke.. maybe voting democrat will get you another quarter/hour next election cycle you fucking nothing.
Sorry m8, I'd reply, but I'm off to China to have them handle my means of production. The Gov just bought the MFG new machinery and subsidized all the materials costs to get our business, and USA just can't compete.
>like a parasite needs a host
wow. you sound rational and level headed. no way that you could be an extremist. it's possible to combine various political theories, you know. there are more choices than nazism and communism.
What? Why would I call Sanders a Marxist? That's absurd. Based on his platform he's clearly a social democrat. Maybe he's playing an evolutionary socialist game, but in that case he's also proven how easily they get defused and absorbed by pro-capitalist liberals.
Socialism is about giving everyone the same chance to succeed through hardworking. That means the same high standard of education is available to everyone instead of the situation where an intelligent poor kid doesn't do as well as a below average intelligent rich kid because he gets a shitty school.
It means that children - who can't be blamed for their circumstances have equal access to healthcare.
Capitalism is designed so that those who have continue to have and take from those that don't.
Unfortunately people have been brainwashed.
The problem in Venezuela isn't socialism it's hanging you economy on one economy. AAlso undoubtedly some CIA interference.
uh oh someone doesn't know the difference between having socialist policies in place and having actual socialism. Lol. fucking idiot. it only works because it has capitalism as it's base backing it.
This. Thanks for attempting to educate these mongoloids. Don't expect them to understand it though.
Even more ironically under capitalism OP is $45k in debt.
Then why the fuck do I see lifted pick ups with maga 2020 stickers all over rthe fucking place. Let me guess, you read an article on politico that said some shit about ...oh even folks in oc are turning on drumpft
Jesus Christ do you literally work for the Clintons? Next you're going to tell me it takes a village.
You people aren't socialists. You're liberals who use a shallow humanitarianism to rationalize an economically privileged lifestyle that depends on the exploitation of the global poor (oh, but let's not think about that). Tell me you're willing to throw away capitalist bribes so we can build a better, sustainable world that can progress into the future and then I'll be impressed.
Lol except what you're saying is blatantly false and there are actually examples of capitalism working for extended periods of time and bringing out more growth. every example of socialism is colossal failure. fuck off back to le r3ddit pls, faggot
asians are docked on there sat scores and blacks are handicapped at state funded colleges. not equal
healthcare is a good. not a right. stop over regulating healthcare and it will become more affordable.
capitalism is designed to produce consumer goods at market value.. the ppl decide what a good is worth. opposite of labor theory.. which is retarded
you have been brainwashed into thinking you dont need to know basic economics.
the problem in venezuela is socialism.
>literally work for the Clintons
Would you be shocked if xe was?
Commie pee + drumpf = pathetic self delusional chumps who voted for him
Source: I'm a 45 year old long time conservative. Not a right wing loon who lacks critical thinking skills
I voted for Reagan. He was a fucking vegetable, and his fucking hired jew deregulated the financial sector and caused all manner of mayhem. And as a military historian, his defending the US from fucking... Grenada... and trying to take credit for the collapse of the Soviet Union was nauseating.
However, he was 1000x the president Trump is. I don't know how 1/3 of the country apparently missed the last oh 40 years, where Trump was the epitome of a shitty human being with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, but, there it is, and we got him, and it's all the DNC and Hillary's fault.
>be massive faggot
>be on a crusade against strawmen
>keep on fighting
>keep avoiding the real arguments
>gotta stay brave and fight those strawmen
>can't let real topics distract me
you seem like the one who's privileged and afraid to live in the real world
have you ever noticed how the liberal ones Among Us are the only ones willing to pay taxes you know we're willing to give up our money to help support the group as a whole we think realistically
and you're still on that caveman everybody for them self shit
seriously stop being a snowflake and get with the times already everybody has to give up something and just because you don't want to give a little doesn't mean you should go around talking about how everybody is geting something but me snowflake
If you have no grasp of history, then you need to have taken more than Econ 101 to have a fucking idea of what you're talking about you idiot.
When you find out how much chaos and destruction lay in the wake of your idiotic ideology, and how much of the successes you assume to be the product of it aren't, then you turn out... just like us.
I lived in OC from the late 70's to mid 90's and still have family I visit there.
Trust me, it's no where near as conservative as it used to be.
It's about 40% now, down from around 90% in the late 80's.
all you're doing is criticizing lenin and shit, which is completely unrelated.
that's why it's a strawman, you're attacking a position that i don't subscribe to. and you're doing the same with sanders. you're not criticizing me or sanders, you're just raging about soviet era bullshit that is irrelevant for either my or sanders' positions.
i know some fags that will put a bullet in your head
What the hell are you talking about? I'm happy to have a civilized conversation with you, but you don't seem to understand what plane of reality you're currently on, much less what I'm trying to tell you.
What?? Why would I do that? Sanders is a social democrat, and if you think social programs = happy "socialist" capitalism (please ignore the suffering of far away people), so are you. The difference is that you apparently only give a fuck about getting your cut of the blood money.
that's not a shop anon
no you dont, couse if you did you would be dead
No I'm saying all ideologies in which millions have died for and then never work are bad. idiots like you want to keep trying it Because "it'll work this time" capitalism has many recorded successes and there are few if any countries that habe failed only because of capitalism. every country that has tried socialism has failed and killed millions in the process. There hasn't been a single attempt that has been close to success. but hey with a smart guy like you leading the revolution I'm sure it won't fail this time, lol.
the great leader will prefect us MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
that an easy assessment from your parents home
La Jolla is not San Diego and sure some times you can make it to LAX that fast if traffic allows you to speed like a mother fucker like in 3AM. But if you want to go anywhere near the speed limit during day time hours, good luck.
Just imagine a well placed pipe bomb turning that whole mass of faggotry into human hamburger
These modern day communists are so fucking pathetic. They love everything that old communists hated. these people are the same ones to support black lives matter and cry about muh police. You hate cops yet want a militarized govt. Makes no sense
Yeah comrade we're gonna punch some Nazis today
All I see is a truck full of useless idiots that want to enslave me and steal my stuff. This is why we need private ownership of moartars and RPGs.
at least his not a professional, like most cis hetero alphas here
>no you're just shilling ha ha
What am I shilling, bright boy? Kinda hard to pay people who are against the continued existence of the concept of money to shill. Anyway, you're late for your objectivist fan club - er - meeting.
A Democratic Republic is just Socialism-lite.
>new commies are pro fag supporters
Old ones killed disgusting fags
>new commies like drugs
Oldies thinks druggies should be shot on site
>new commies cry about the police having too much power
Old commies think it's great to have a strong militarized police
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ban assualt airplaens now!
you just tuck your stuff away under the bed
BTFO YOU CIS WHITE PRIVILEGED FUCKS>>741530430
This guy is literally that LOL
TBF, everyone owning a gun uses only the monsy posessed by those who want to own guns. Whereas everyone havng helathcare relies on using monies posessed by those who either ALREADY have healthcare or who don't want healthcare to fund those who don't have healthcare.
The same way I managed to not have to build everything I own from scratch. I came to an ethical agreement about the value of the goods and services I wanted with those who had them or providded them, and I made a TRADE.
Only communists and fascists (not that there's much difference functionally) enslave people, steal their shit or are stupid enough to think that humans can't interact ethically.
wow. worst attempted rebuttal of the month. that was weak. really fucking weak.
here, dumbfuck, let me explain it to the 2 year old that you are: Socialism is the system that puts all the power into the hands of the government (by stripping away freedom from the people), only allows one-party rule, and historically always results in a centralized, hierarchical system with one person at the top (think: Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jung Un, Hugo Chavez, etc.).
Now, realize that Hitler's government was the same type (disagreeing with communism only in aiming for national solidarity not global solidarity). Now realize that Hitler was only able to do what he did because of the socialist system in place first. Now realize that Hitler's murder spree is just average compared to other Socialist/communist murder sprees.
Now, realize you are a dupe, a useful idiot, and you are fighting for your own demise and the destruction of everything you hold dear.
Now go fuck yourself.
not socialist, has a higher rating on the economic freedom index than the USA
fucking americans, always talking shit about money when they have none (200 Bajillion in debt, good luck paying that off before your "country" goes bankrupt)...who cares where you get your money or how, fuck you
Car insurance isn't actally required for travel by private vehicle. It's only when you drive for commercial purposes that it's required. Neither is an IM, registration or a license technically.
Gotta read the fine print.
(From The Library of Economics and Liberty)
In The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics, Sheldon Richman succinctly states: “As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer.” He contends that socialism seeks to abolish capitalism outright, while fascism gives the appearance of a market-based economy, even though it relies heavily on the central planning of all economic activities. According to authors Roland Sarti and Rosario Romeo, “[U]nder Fascism the state had more latitude for control of the economy than any other nation at the time except for the Soviet Union.”
Interestingly, Mussolini found much of John Maynard Keynes’s economic theories consistent with fascism, writing: “Fascism entirely agrees with Mr. Maynard Keynes, despite the latter’s prominent position as a Liberal. In fact, Mr. Keynes’ excellent little book, The End of Laissez-Faire (l926) might, so far as it goes, serve as a useful introduction to fascist economics. There is scarcely anything to object to in it and there is much to applaud.”
…As the effects of the Great Depression lingered, Italy’s government promoted mergers and acquisitions, bailed out failing businesses and “seized the stock holdings of banks, which held large equity interests.” The Italian state took over bankrupt corporations, cartelized business, increased government spending, expanded the money supply, and boosted deficits. The Italian government promoted heavy industry by “nationalizing it instead of letting the companies go bankrupt.”
>oh you hate conservatives you must be a clintin lover
Sorry that I don't like you kike loving Israel fags. Muh strongest ally
I have a serious critical thinking question for you
have you ever considered the possibility that your definition of socialism and how you think it functions it's not the same as someone else's definition of socialism
because if it is the case and that your definition of socialism is different from the other definition that everyone else is using that would mean you're not talking about the same thing
could it be that so many people support socialism because it's not the socialism that you think but it's a different socialism
"americans" are not a monolith. It's the socialist and socialist-leaning "Americans" who put us into debt, fuckface. It's the fiscally responsible libertarians who are fighting them and trying to fix it.
Meanwhile, remind me which utopian paradise you are from?
>implying that fascism is somehow bad
>nice retarded image
Do you believe hitler wanted to take over the world, and was a drug addict too?
>asians are docked on there sat scores and blacks are handicapped at state funded colleges. not equal
That's not socialism - it's social engineering. You know full well that I mean schools with equal excellence regardless of location.
>healthcare is a good. not a right. stop over regulating healthcare and it will become more affordable.
Lol. The only people who think healthcare is a good are failed human beings. Why should it be that a child born into a poor family should die of the same disease that the rich kid in the same country is cured of?
>capitalism is designed to produce consumer goods at market value.. the ppl decide what a good is worth. opposite of labor theory.. which is retarded
No, capitalism is designed so that those with capital can accumulate more capital and those that have no capital can't. It's designed to rob the workforce of any chance of improvement so that they're forced to work for the capital holder. Pure theoretical capitalism results in monopolies which then dictate whatever price they want.
>you have been brainwashed into thinking you dont need to know basic economics.
You have been brainwashed into thinking you understand basic economics.
>the problem in venezuela is socialism.
No, the problem is an economy pinned to the price of oil. Of course if you're intent on pillaging the countries resources and exploiting the poor the problem is a lack of access to markets.
self-identifying Jews voted Trump. Only the self-hating, non-practicing, guaranteed to be non-Jews next generation "Jews" vote liberal.
Socialism has never been done. Authoritarian kleptocracies are what you're thinking of. Words are confusing for conservatards, I know. However, American has been a socialist democratic republic since the beginning. The constitution mentions regulations numerous times for a reason. You idiots act like any regulation or tax is somehow socialist. You're all retarded.
You are the definition of muh based jews.
I appreciate your serious, critical thinking question. However, ducking definitions is just a sad, evasion tactic.
We can dispense with definitions, if you like. Let's just consider all centralized, collectivist systems of government under which citizens are considered inclusive to that government, directly or indirectly.
Moreover, we can add that one role of the government is to ensure egalitarian outcomes to all citizens.
Do you think governments of this type have historically/empirically produced stable, successful societies where citizens enjoy a wide range of freedoms and a high standard of living?
>posting that image on /b/
you're gonna be swarmed by the people who're terrified their door is gonna be broken down by women accusing them of rape, liberals forcing them to take hormone pills and socialists coming to redistribute their money