Prove me wrong

>>739427968
Until someone can give an example...one example... of a long-lasting, successful pure communist nation, I'll continue working in the real world where I can build my success. I will continue to never ask another man to share his success with my, as I will never share my success with another man.

>>739429425
You poor soul

>>739429425
china

Go back to /pol/ you political cocksuckers.

>>739429559
If 6 figures is poor, I'll take it!
>>739429569
China is a socialist, totalitarian nation shifting towards capitalism. Care for a redo?

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>>739429776
>he thinks communists belong on /pol/
communists belong in the air outside of a helicopter

>>739427968
https://www.amazon.com/Quotations-Chairman-Mao-Tse-Tung/dp/083512388X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500512957&sr=8-1&keywords=chairman+mao

I leverage capitalism to buy this retard's communist book of shit. How else could I obtain one?

You're wrong. Idiot.

>>739429973
... So anywhere on Earth, so long as there's a helicopter on the planet?

The only good communist is a dead communist.

>>739429973
t. isis

ANYONE who espouses any virtues of communism is ALWAYS someone who wants to take away someone else's success.

>>739429875
ok faggot

CHINA

which btw together with russia holds your little capitalistic ballsack in a chokehold

>>739429425
there is no pure capitalist or communist countries pure capitalism and communism is impossible to sustain the vast majority of countries on this Earth are on a socialist slider

bro you share with people all the time and people share with you you drive on public roads and where do you think that comes from taxpayers and I'm pretty sure you help your family from time to time yeah you know you help your family you fucking communist

>>739430045
Here, retard.
https://youtu.be/sONpXz-hNCo

>>739430221
ANYONE who espouses any virtues of capitalism is ALWAYS someone who took away someone else's success.

FTFY

>>739427968

I can, myself, imagine other systems than capitalism. This proves you wrong, QED.

>>739430408
Actually Russia isnt a communist nation anymore, and again, China (who are adopting more and more capitalist ideas) just trades with the US, who we owe a large debt. They dont own us, we just owe some money.

>>739430221

i don't think it's legitimate "success" if it's "earned" through cronyism aka legal bribery. purchasing the law in your favor. that is fucking bullshit and you know it

>>739430068
hey friend

>>739430614
do you believe systems other than capitalism work

communism is about leveling things out
capitalism on the other hand just says fuck it free for all
i think both ways are wrong and need to make way for the future

>>739430500

I haven't and I do.

>>739430666

No, I don't. But I can imagine others, which was the statement, which is therefore incorrect. Correct your question and I may change my answer, if you're OP.

>>739430701
socialism is about leveling the playing field
communism is about completely removing the playing field
capitalism is about taking all the referees off the playing field

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Anarcho-capitalism is the only way. McDonald's should have it's own army.

>>739430785
not OP but you seem to read the words but missed the meaning

>>739429569
uh, no

>>739430827
Socialism is about calling everyone a winner, not leveling the playing field. It halts the competitive attitude that is the whole point of the playing field, and stagnates any progress in the field

>>739430666
Yeah, if pure marxism works in favor for the people as a whole, and not a dictator who WILL eventually take power due to the nature of men and giving a position of power to a group of people. Marxism only works if the whole nation wills it. Capitalism works even if some don't want it to. Honestly, I would love a communistic lifestyle, but due to the nature of some, its impossible. Once humanity is thoroughly obsoleted in the workforce will any hint of communism succeed, and thats if our successors dont view us as a waste of space before then

>>739430500

> dindu detected

>>739430835
>Anarchy...now with rules!

>>739430785
oh boy I have a hell of a shocker for you every country on the planet uses socialism it's just that some countries use more or less

in fact nearly from its conception America has been using socialism in almost everything

>>739430894

Let's see. The words are:

> Capitalism has deleted people's ability to imagine anything else but capitalism.

I can imagine other systems, therefore this statement is wrong. Maybe you're reading into it stuff that is not there overtly?

>>739430935
you don't know what socialism is do you

>>739431037
No shit, there's a duality in everything.

>>739430500
>he thinks captialism is a zero sum game
did you flunk out of eco 101 or some shit
you're not (dare i say it) underage are you?

>>739431069
ho dear god I could have swore every human was born with critical thinking skills looks like I was wrong

>>739431037

Oh yeah, there's no country that isn't socialist to a point. I mean socialism is the workers owning the means of production. And often times they do. The guy that paints my house owns his brush. The guy who fixes my plumbing owns his tools. I own the computer I use to earn money. Yeah, this version of socialism kicks ass. Let's try not to change it with one of those versions that end up with millions of dead.

why do young people all want socialism and communism?

>>739431223

There you have a factual statement: you were wrong. Possibly more times than you have noticed or care to admit.

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>>739430702
i didn't say that people do it personally
it's just a byproduct of free market
>>739430625
i didn't say russia was communist
and debt is a hell of a way to keep someone in check
>>739430979
im worse
im a jew
and im not against anti-communism
but i do think that capitalism is fucking retarded
anyone who says its good is like a rape victim that says she liked it (most of capitalism victims don't have a voice at all)
>>739431188
rape victim detected

>>739431188
>econ 101
>literally orgasm faking 101
Is that all you got?
Show me the real resources, nigger. They don't care about your numbers.

>>739430954
I 100% disagree with you I say all systems of government work but it's just a matter of time before they all collapse
the only question is how long will they work there is no nation in history that has ever stood the test of time
I challenge you the point out one nation that has maintained its identity since its founding
the answer is none no nation has maintained its identity not even America through its conception it went through War through its maturity it went through another War and on its deathbed there will be another War
in 500 years this country won't exist it'll be some other place it might share a similar name and it might still be a union of states but it won't be America

>>739431431

Oh, sorry,I'm the "I haven't and I do" poster.
I misread your statement here: >>739430500

Never mind me I think you're mostly correct in your assertion there. You even got dubs.

>>739429425

I'm a communist, but the problem is no country has actually tried communism. They just call it "communism" because everyone knows it's a better system than what we have.

>>739427968
communism has deleted the peoples ability to imagine anything else but famine

>>739431539
>I challenge you the point out one nation that has maintained its identity since its founding
(((ok)))

>>739431300
capitalism socialism and communism are merely forms of government economic policies they don't kill people the thing that kills people is the government not their economic policies
a fascist government resorts to killing an authoritarian government resorts to killing and even republics resort to killing these are governments
capitalism socialism communism are merely economic plans

I would love to give commies a country to rule on their own just to watch them starve to death soon after...

this thread just proves how right OP is lol

>>739431405
you are oh so right
I was wrong I thought you had critical thinking skills and you proved me you did not
I thank you for enlightening me

btw y'all negroes can pretend like you understand politics and economics all you want, but its clearly obvious that yall fucking dumb and dont know shit

instead of choosing a side because cnn or fox new told you to
why don't you go and study one

Capitalism goes with human nature, more work, more reward. (or smarter work more reward and sometimes shit work good timing, great reward)
But there does need to be some underpinning socailism in coming years due to automation and the decreasing amount of jobs on the market.

>>739431698
ikr socialists can't math

>>739431765
Good heavens, where the hell did THAT come from?

see this retards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6NbIiRlTN8

>>739431850
you disgusting communist piece of shit thinking that people should help people where do you get off

>>739431850
more like capitalism goes hand in hand with greed

>>739431730

Well, as far as economic plans, this "capitalist socialism" has a better track record of not devolving into authoritarianism.

For an example of this, look at how Benito Mussolini took socialism and grew fascism out of it. Or how Lenin and Stalin turned socialism into communism.

Oh, do you know how coined the expression "dictatorship of the proletariat?", perchance?

>>739431714
This

>>739432270
>Lenin and Stalin turned socialism into communism
retard

>>739432160

How does that disprove what I said? Greed is part of human nature. Without capitalism my hyper-niche hobbies would not have the demand to go into production if they were expected to work at the rate for everyone else despite doing much more technical work.

>>739432117

Ah, Engels would be so happy in today's society, where the vast majority of people own, among other things, their own homes.

>>739431850
watch this video faggot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYcpeQwtL4

>>739432390

I am a certified retard, yes. I'm not wrong about that though.

>>739432270
>authoritarianism
Define authoritarianism.

>>739432391
>Greed is part of human nature
No, it isn't. It can be discouraged strongly by a culture that doesn't feed it, which is to say, not Western """"""civilization"""""".

>>739432495
They don't own shit while there's still a lien on it.

>>739432567
Actually, you are. Communism is stateless.

>>739431765
Holy shit that handwriting. Smudges everywhere, letters that were missed and added in after writing the word, inconsistent spacing and inability to write in a straight line.

Public schools really have become that bad haven't they?

>>739431765

How about the car I use to work for uber, is it private property or a mean of production? What about the laptop I use to program free lance?

>>739431814
Market economy is just a million times more efficient than socialism at allocating resources, its not even a debatable.

>>739432553

Not that anon, but... If capitalism doesn't go against human nature, why isn't it the default system, and we can imagine others?

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>>739431850
more work - more reward
that doesn't sound like capitalism at all.
Capitalism creates a situation when large and superprofits are made only by a narrow bourgeoisie-class stratum.
And what indispensable and hard work do they do to deserve such riches? Mostly they get their money by doing absolutely fucking nothing, just by the fact of obtaining property.

capitalism works great with a dash of socialism in the mix. ie. germany

>>739432603

> Define authoritarianism

The enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.

>>739431669
>"Not REAL Communism!!!!"
Kys.

>>739432714
Like rules?

>>739432391
the perfect system would supply every person with food , shelter and health free of charge ,we are caplable of doing it ,yes technology already advanced that far so why it didn't happen yet ?
because of fuckng greed and selfishness
now as for innovation ,hobbies and the advancement of society ,it won't be equal because you would have to work for it

Capitalism is modern survival of the fittest. If you don't think it's great, it's because you are too weak to succeed in a meritocracy.

>>739432659
All I see is a tick-tock coming out of your mouth.

How does it feel to have your ideology dictated by Jews?

>>739432603

> They don't own shit while there's still a lien on it.

Fair point. I guess that old people that make it to 50 without defaulting are the oppressor class then?

>>739427968
As usual, OP is a confirmed faggot.

>>739427968
Pure communism and pure capitalism sucks.

Capitalism with a few socialist and utilitarianist aspects works best.

>>739432804
I disagree with this capitalism is not Modern Survival of the Fittest Modern Survival of fittest is still the same thing it was a thousand years ago and 10,000 years ago before that

survival of the fittest it's just whoever is fit enough for the environment shall survive

i.e. if I find where you live go to your house and start stalking you and sending you voice messages and tormenting you everyday and you end up so paranoid that you kill yourself you weren't fit to survive in the environment capitalism had nothing to do with that

>>739432659
2nd this
>>739432807
you is either a retard, an illiterate or a troll

>>739432973
you mean socialism with a few capitalistic aspects

>>739432787

Rules, yeah. Like don't rape, don't murder, don't rob .

>>739432733
Is he wrong?

>>739432804
this. everyone has a chance to succeed in a capitalist society. some people have it easier than others yes but in a true capitalist society everyone has the tools to succeed. you're not taxed and regulated to the point where only big corporations play the game (like now). im a business owner and let me tell you, as a small business owner its a nightmare starting a business, its a nightmare hiring people, its a nightmare firing people.
some people are born into money i get that, but its fair game IMO. if i start an empire and get rich, you bet your ass its going to my kids

>>739432714
By that definition all societies are authoritarian. Even primitive social structures in animal communities. Because society is all about supressing some of your personal needs for the benifit of everyone.

And what exactly is personal freedom? And to what extent can you repress it so your state won't be considered authoritarian?

This is bunch of ideological bullshit.


What state you would call more authoritarian? Stalin's USSR of 30s or USA of the beggining of XX century?

>>739432797
What food? Do I get caviar? Tenderloin? Or just rice? What if I don't want rice?

What kind of shelter? A mansion? An apartment? Or a mud hut?

What kind of healthcare? A heart transplant? A laser eye surgery? A flu shot? Or just an aspirin?

>>739433005
>Modern Survival of fittest
>he hasn't heard of tribes
Give up, psychopath. The world was much different 200 years ago, let alone 2000. Collusion always works better than competition for the organisms involved. Only if you're chasing some crackpot abstract ideal like muh improvement of muh race does competition even begin to produce better results, and certainly not better for the organisms who are being wasted on that exercise.

>>739433171
>everyone has a chance to succeed in a capitalist society
Complete and utter fantasy bullshit. Capitalism does not even work without an underclass to generate surplus for the overclass. If there is no army of labor, capital has no privileges.

Capitalism is so great is even profits off of selling you your failed Marxist propaganda.

>>739433069
Nah. Free markets are ok. Certain aspects of socialism make sure the market is free. Monopolies and trusts destroy capitalism. A government that busts trusts is OK in my book.

How does this differ from America? Campaign finance laws. That way the trusts cant buy politicians.

>>739432797

That isn't a perfect system, utopias have been basically proven to cause depression due to the lack of any real goals to be able to set

>>739433171
you fucking communist bastard
you would dare give money to people who hadn't earned it

"Oh ill just give money to my kids cuz there entitled to it"

fuck you and fuck your kids
they need to learn real American capitalistic values and pull themselves up by their bootstraps

I'm tired of people like you giving out handouts to worthless bums

>>739430666
Feudalism worked for centuries.

>>739433285
and it will always have the underclass working it. not everyone is a go getter. most are comfortable and would rather just blame the rich. if you wanna get rich, get rich. work your ass off. if youd rather just complain that shit aint fair, go ahead just shut up and step aside

>>739433521
Plus a good regulatory arm of the government

>>739433171
think about what you said for a second ..... capitalism is not for everyone ,it's only for a select few
because capitlism is impossible to work without a work force under payed or not

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>>739432807

>>739430935
Yeah fuck roads you should have to pay every 5 yards you drive and fuck parks you should have to pay 2 dollars for every minute you sit on a bench.

>>739427968
>The only good communist is a dead communist.
Yep

>>739431389
Lack of real world experience. Socialism makes all kinds of pretty promises, but reality is ugly.

>>739430422
muh roadz!

>>739433795
you know one socialist promise made is that you'll have a police force

>>739433244

> By that definition all societies are authoritarian. Even primitive social structures in animal communities. Because society is all about supressing some of your personal needs for the benifit of everyone.

Yeah, but the more rules there are, the more authoritarian a society becomes. And the more socialist the ruling ideology is, the more rules there are, which only produces chaos and lowers efficiency. This is why excessive socialism is bad and should really be avoided. When in doubt, turn right, is my rule of thumb.

> And what exactly is personal freedom?

I would say that a personal freedom is something you can do without directly breaking someone else's consent. Rape is bad. Breathing, not bad.

> And to what extent can you repress it so your state won't be considered authoritarian?

In the case of rape, I would repress it as hard as possible within the confines of "innocent until proven guilty."

In the case of "Breathing", I wouldn't repress it at all. Everyone likes breathing, even gaspers.

> This is bunch of ideological bullshit.

As opposed to what?

>>739433084
No matter how many times it's tried it won't work. Communism requires that everyone works together for unselfish reasons. How many people do you know that are truly selfless? Im willing to bet very few, if any. Someone is always going to be fighting for power.
https://en.wikipedia org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
>

>>739433825
you better be screaming for your roads because it's impossible to get around America without them

>>739433254
now you are just being a retard
only technological advancement will decide how good is your free food shelter and health
on another note , your hobbies and luxuries ,you have to work for them

>>739431669
This reminds me of a joke they used to tell in the Soviet Union.

In the west, fairy tales began with 'once upon a time'. In Russia, they begin with 'once we have achieved communism.'

The punchline is that communism is an impossible ideal. Also, if the wrong person heard you tell that joke, you're off to the gulag.

>>739431300
>I mean socialism is the workers owning the means of production

No that's communism.

>The guy that paints my house owns his brush.

That's private property rights.

Socialism is public ownership for public use.

>>739434120
communism is the state owning the means of production

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>>739433586

communism isn't about giving money to people who don't deserved it.
On a contrary. Communists are trying to elimanate social class which doesn't work, doesn't contribute anything to society, but gets all the power and material goods.
There even was soviet political slogan "those, who don't work, shouldn't eat either"

>>739434120

That's not socialism? Huh, that's what a 70 year old socialist told me that socialism was. Can't trust old people.

In any case, with your explanation clarifying stuff, I'll say no to communism and no to socialism and vote for private property rights. Allow me to save your post for future reference, thanks!

>>739431539
You either misunderstood my post or you just want to start a pointless discussion about a question that's loaded, which we both know the answer to... But i'll humor you.
No nation is eternal, and even a nation's identity could drastically change in a person's lifetime, just look at the USSR, Cuba, Germany, or even the US (being much less conservative vs 60 years ago).

>>739434261
communism is by definition a stateless society

>>739433550
that's not even utopia ..... that's among your rights ,the earth used to belong to nobody so food and a place to live are a must
also how will utopia cause depression ? at worst you will have more time for your family and hobbies
AND even if it causes depression i think that would be better that poverty
imagine how many good inventions were hidden in the minds of all those who died due to luck of food and shelter
and

>>739427968
Okay, I will, using formal logic.

For all people, capitalism has deleted their ability to imagine anything but capitalism.

Proof by counterexample.

Required: Prove that there exists one person who can imagine anything but capitalism.

I am a person,
I can imagine something other than capitalism.
This satisfies the required statement.
QED

>>739434283
I agree with that slogan
if your kids don't work your kids don't eat
job-killing regulations like child labor laws are killing our country these kids can learn a lot more by working a factory line than they can buy sitting in a school

>>739434421
No, Donny, these men are NEETs, there's nothing to be afraid of.

>>739434493
any ≠ all
Your argument is invalid.

>>739434421
Look at the historical fiction "Utopia", which the word comes from.

>>739434283

>those, who don't work, shouldn't eat either

So the people working the farms during the Holodomor didn't... work? But people in the industrial centers did and ate food that came in from where?

>>739430033
Money is not exclusive to capitalism you dumb fuck communist countries have money too, how the fuck would they buy that same book then? How can someone be this retarded?

>>739429569
Nigguh...

>>739433594
work your ass off to get rich ..... yeah right
amassing and accumulating wealth from your meagre pay is not considered being rich
it's taking advantage of people is how how rich people get rich

>>739434391

> communism is by definition a stateless society

Communism only works as definition, it seems. When you take it into practice it's... not so good.

>>739434391
the agreeance of their not being a state causes a state to exist
this is the paradox of the stateless nation

Don't you guys know that communism has never actually failed? It's because it's never actually happened anywhere. Communism by definition has to work, so if it failed, then it wasn't real communism. Duh.

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>>739434283
“People who eat one other because of the famine are not cannibals. Cannibals are those who don't want to redistribute the church's gold to the starving."

all these fags who get the good side of capitalism have no idea what its like to be in a shitty African country, starving to death, and dying of preventable diseases

>>739434493

I already did this and a mean anon called me a retard :(. I think they're implying stuff instead of outright stating it.

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>>739427968
Any country that uses its money for social and corporate welfare isn't capitalist

>>739434860
Its called a troll thread friends. Even if you prove yourself right you will still have shit thrown at you.

>>739434707
Then perhaps you would have the intellecual honesty to stop blaming communism for anything, since there by definition cannot be a communist state.
Unless you're just a summerfag here trolling for the Young Republifats. In which case you have no intellectual honesty and should kys rn.

>>739434878
If they use it for corporate welfare, it's extremely capitalist. All -isms are about privileging some class of people over the rest. Racism = privileging a particular race over others. Feminism = privileging the female gender over others. Capitalism = privileging capital over others. There's nothing more capitalist than corporate welfare.
Maybe you meant the so-called free market.

>>739434832

Where do you live, anon?

>>739434586
if you are going to stick to books and lies then screw this conversation
give me one damn reason why minimum food and shelter isn't provided for everybody

>>739434832
The western world sends billions of dollars in aid to africa. Tens of billions. The only result is that they have more kids, thus exacerbating the problem. The west is trying to help, but they're breeding faster than it can help.

>>739434530
it's funny
because communists were the one who enforced laws forbidding child labor.
In soviet union child labour was banned since the day of its foundation. Europeans, japanese and americans adopted such laws much later.

Communism works great, until it runs out of money.

>>739435094

> Then perhaps you would have the intellecual honesty to stop blaming communism for anything, since there by definition cannot be a communist state.

Oh no! Semantics defeats me again. Communism dindu muffin. COMMUNISTS on the other hand...

> Unless you're just a summerfag here trolling for the Young Republifats. In which case you have no intellectual honesty and should kys rn.

I'll have you know I'm a person of color living in the third world. What is your classification?

>>739435376
I challenge you to find someone who wasn't a higher up member of the communist party who has positive things to say about their life under communism.

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>>739435455
>I'll have you know I'm a person of color living in the third world. What is your classification?
Oh, Mr. Mugabe, pleasure to see you here!

>>739435352
keep lying to yourself
>trying to help ?
oh really ?
helping a starving person by giving them food is utterly stupid ,The western world is capable of introducing some long lasting solution but they refuse because it's against their benefits

>>739435455
Oh wow! A person of color! Means less than the dog shit i stepped in earlier.

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>>739427968

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>>739435630

>>739434603
Holodomor is an ideological cliché, which was created during the War by Goebbels Propaganda Department.

Hunger was caused by weather conditions. And contrary to the general judgment Stalin couldn't control weather.
Consider the fact that hunger took place not only in soviet Ukraine, but in Volga region, Kazakhstan, Bulgaria, Romania and Germany. And when you hearing holodomor bullshit ask yourself who inspered Hunger in Germany then? Or was it bloodthirsty Stalin too?

>>739435663

Hello, esteemed internet person. I, Robert Mugabe, leader of Zimbabwe, invite you to join my socialist paradise.

>>739435922
That's a misleading graph, and you know it. Nice work.

>>739436056

This is not what my sources of information (which are even BETTER than /b/ pasta) clash with your statement. Please can I have your references so that I can better instruct myself.

>>739436251
How so? Are you about to talk about the muh GDP or some other abstract shit that only matters to the class of people who most need to be dropped from helicopters?

>>739436251

Do you have the sauce to that? I can't imagine current Polanball being so nostalgic for communism.

>>739435630
a lot of people actually.
And what historical period and location are we talking about?
Find one person who is happy under capitalism in Liberia or Zimbabwe.

And what are you implying by meontioning higher up party members? USSR was the state with one of the smallest level of social stratification in history.

>>739436741

I am Robert Mugabe and I will have you know that all my people are happy to support my perennial rule and the bountiful fruit that my socialist labor has given them. People who disagree with this statement are BTFO, sometimes literally-literally.

>>739435630
I can find maaany many people who lived in former SSRs like Moldova, Ukraine, Russia etc who muuuch much prefer the Soviet era than the state of their country currently. I think almost every person I know who was a citizen of the USSR preferred that time. Theres people who have not changed their USSR passports to new country ones because they miss the time so much.

>>739435204
I wasnt op, I just said read "Utopia". Im not trying to argue, Im just saying why that word, for me, is ruined.

>>739437343

Well, if so many miss the good ole times, I'm sure they can apply for immigration to North Korea. Have you suggested that? There's also Cuba or Venezuela if you like a more tropical climate.

>>739427968
Free market capitalism works great until all the winners are picked, they become conglomerates and they buy all the politicians.

Which is what we are suffering right now. There needs to be some boundaries and restrictions on such megalomania.

>>739437992

> Which is what we are suffering right now.

What's your metric for measuring suffering?

>>739436733
Pew, man, right at the bottom. Interesting, isn't it, since Pew has an ideological affinity to capitalism and Christian morality.

>>739438150
>to undergo, be subjected to, or endure (pain, distress, injury, loss, or anything unpleasant):
to suffer the pangs of conscience.
>to undergo or experience (any action, process, or condition): to suffer change.
>to tolerate or allow: I do not suffer fools gladly.
>measurement
Kill yourself, liberal.

>>739437992
Free market capitalism doesn't have politicians. They're can't be a government if there is a free market.