So the whole God deal is just bullshit?

As far as I can tell.

>>739213025
no. but religion has a lot of bullshit. does not mean it is bullshit though.

>>739213918
Does not mean it isn't either.

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>>739213025
Not if you say 'GOD' as in Lucifer.

>>739213025
was there ever really any reason to suspect otherwise?

I'll put it this way: Religion is great. God giving me purpose is awesome, and I'm happy. But, the practitioners of religion almost always suck. It's kind of like how humans just...well when they're grouped together humans find a way to ruin anything.

>>739214086
Edgy. Maybe you can tell us all about the pentagrams you like to draw on all of your papers in pre-algebra.

>>739214195
>religion is great
Nah man.
>God giving me purpose is awesome
You make your own purpose.

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>>739214355
Oh man, you got me. I don't know how I'm gunna cope.

>>739214372
Yeah. YOU put in the effort to find it, but that doesn't mean you're not designed intelligently. There's always a journey, and on a private, spiritual level, having a connection to the creator of the universe is pretty cool.

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>>739214613
I guess you'll have to cope by complaining about it on Reddit.

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>>739214355
Pentagrams mean shit all. Just a part of what you see. Like the 'Flower of Life'. Time is relative. Run your mouth again pilgrim.

>>739214734
Edgy

>>739214634
I'm not designed intelligently because I evolved naturally.

There's no good reason to think spirits or a creator of the universe exist.

>>739213986
Wow, so deep man. You really must know your stuff.

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God is real, just not the omnipotent supernatural entity described in the Dead Sea scrolls. The Gods are from another planet and the Earth is basically a lab.

>>739214881
I might.

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all 4000+ religions are man made, written by humans just like you and me. They are not the word of "God".

The 2 major ones, Christianity and islam can eaisily be disproved by evolution. Adam and eve did not exist, it would be impossible and we have evolved from bacteria with evolution, thats a fact.

Now its time to seperate god from man made fiction. Did something cause the big bang to happen? is there a reason why it happened? Nobody knows. The concept of a god being the thing that caused the big bang to happen is still possible but it would be nothing like the god you are imagining.

When you die, your brain shuts down, you have no conciousness. You wont know your dead, just like you dont know your sleeping (unless your dreaming). You wont go to heaven or hell, they are man made fiction. You will be in nothingness just like before you were born. We have to cherish the tiny amount of time we have in this beautiful world because once we die, thats it.

Man made placebo effect. Turned into a mass delusion.

>>739215130

Yeah, I know. "Something from nothing". Temporal distortion. Anti-matter/matter. Worm hole from another universe. Multiverse, etc.

>>739214890
>mfw this is basically what my Dad believes
>mfw I have no face

>>739215494
I personally believe its not "something from nothing" as we know it. The big bang was the start of everything, time, space, every law of physic which then dictates something cannot come from nothing.

The start of the big bang happened when there was nothing, no laws, no time, just nothingness so it would make sense how it came about from nothing, after all. Somewhere, sometime, something HAD to of come from nothing

>>739215919
imo better way to put it: if time only exists if the universe exists, there would be no before the universe. To speak of the universe "coming from" would be nonsensical. At no point would the universe not exist, even though there's a beginning.

>>739215919

Eh. "Time" as humans know it can mean something completely misunderstood in space history. My point was. This universe could have been "born" from another, etc, etc.

>>739215130
Load of bullshit
You have no proof for your last paragraph
You're also a retard if you think an entire religion is based off a literal interpretation of its major texts

Go back to r/atheism lmfao

>>739216359
yeh thats a good way, except it gives the impression the universe has been here forever, its hard to phrase right

>>739216555
thats a huge claim to make

>>739216690
We have evidence that what you consider your consciousness is just your brain doing shit. We know that the brain dies and rots when you die.

>>739216858

Also DMT.

>>739216756
Well in a way the universe would have been here forever, in that it would exist for all time. It just would also have a starting point.

>>739214195
What is your purpose?
I don't see how believing in God would give me purpose. If God is omnipotent, than why would he need me?

>>739216858
Prepare for christfags mental gymnastics regarding that statement

>>739213025
Is the Bible bullshit?
yep

Is it possible there is a being responsible for the creation of the universe?
yep

If so, does it interfere in Earthly events?
nope

If so, is it possible to court favor with it?
no

Is it likely there is a being responsible for the creation of the universe?
nope

Is there an afterlife?
nope

you wouldn't believe me if i told you; also you shouldn't believe anything that comes out of any person.

>>739213025
its all true
and even if it isnt
do u rly tink its wort riskin goin 2 hell?
be like me n pray 2 jesos ever day

Yes. It may be true, but the chances are extremely low.

FUCK A TIT HARD

>>739216858
Proof?
As far as I know science hasn't been able to treat consciousness at all since its subjective and would require self experimentation, something that science rarely (if ever) does

>>739213025

Which god? Zeus? Thor? Yahweh? The multiplicity of gods should tell you something about their perceived existence...

>>739216690
I can talk you through what i said and the evidence to back it up.

When you die, you brain dies, its dead. You would have to be completely stupid to protest that. Consciousness only exists in your brain. If you have no brain, you have no consciousness.

Heaven and hell are man made fiction until proven otherwise. Ive just made up a place called fairyland which we all go to when we die. As far as youre or anyone is concerned, the concept of fairyland is been made by man even though it cant be disproven.

We will be in nothingness just like before we was born. We only exist for as long as we are alive. Unless you belive in some sort of spirit or soul which has absolutly no evidence whatsoever so it shall be treated as man made finction until proven otherwise. I dont think your objecting to the last bit, the universe and the world is the most beautiful thing i can ever imagine and its an absolute privilege that by the sheer accident i was born into the only species of living creature with enough intelligence to appreciate it.

>>739213025
there's no reason to believe otherwise until theists meet their burden of proof

>disregard all opinions in this thread
thats all im saying.

>>739217302

We know enough about brain damage and how it affects consciousness to know that it is tied directly to physical parts of your brain. We even know which parts of the brain to damage and how it can specifically affect conscious thought. Slicing one part of the brain instantly affects your speech, or your ability to recognize faces, etc. It's not magic.

>>739217302
You do not have a soul. You are nothing but a meat computer floating in fluid, encased in calcium. When the body that keeps you running finally shuts down, you will turn off and that is that.

>>739217302
>proof
Subjects with split brains, brain damage, etc. changing radically in personality, even developing additional personalities (extra fun when the added personality is an atheist when the first one was theist). So-called near death experiences can also be induced through purely physical means when the subject is in no actual danger of death.

>>739216690

>damage one part of the brain = damage the mind
>damage another brain part = another part of the mind is damaged and destroyed
>damage the entire brain = your mind floats up to heaven and you see your dead grandma

KEK

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I think this one sums it up quite nicely.

>>739217385

I'm dealing with a dark view of the world right now.
Glad you see it "better". Yep. Enough of the magical, mysticism, delusional shit. It's not some fedora, pro-atheist preach. We should all accept the truth and facts. As hard as that is to know.

>>739217385
But where is your proof that consciousness exists only in the brain?
It could be something else that uses the brain as a vessel for all we know, like a program running on a computer

>>739217553
How does brain damage affect consciousness at all? And even so how does this prove consciousness is created by the brain

>>739217656
That's a lot of conjecture with little proof

>>739217755
None of those prove that consciousness is a product of the brain rather than the brain just serving as a casing

>>739217824
That argument doesn't make any sense
Either the person is self aware or he isn't, there isn't an inbetween state. Consciousness is not brain capacity.

I'm not going to bother replying to anything else since so far I've only had reddit tier responses of people who already have little understanding of science and even less ability of critical thinking.
If you actually formulate a proper response that takes into consideration the fact that consciousness is something that can not be proven by science since it is entirely subjective (ie dependant on the individual and impossible to observe by anyone but him) then I will give a (You)

>>739218154
>How does brain damage affect consciousness at all

are you retarded? People with severe brain damage lose consciousness. How much more evidence do you fucking need?

>>739218154
>None of those prove that consciousness is a product of the brain rather than the brain just serving as a casing
Define consciousness. If "you" can, to the observer, become an entirely different person or even multiple people through purely physical means, in what sense is a non-brain based consciousness meaningful?

>>739218154
for all we know, for everything we've been able to observe, you need a brain to have consciousness.

our best tentative explanation right now is that consciousness is an emerging property of a sufficiently complex brain

of course, it could be something completely different, but to the best of our knowledge brainless matter doesn't have consciousness.

Anyone claiming that consciousness is something separated from the brain will need to bring forth evidence for their claims.

>>739218154
>But where is your proof that consciousness exists only in the brain?

Based on all available scientific evidence, fMRI data, all we know about brain damage and comas and everything else, that is clearly the logical conclusion. You need to provide very compelling evidence that consciousness exists without a brain, because that argument goes against all known evidence. You have so far provided zero evidence to the contrary. Literally zero.

>>739213025
The scientific view is god's existence needs to be proven before it is to be believed. So far no such evidence exists.

While no such evidence exists,that prove god is real, there are plenty of religious texts that act as a type path to what ever version of person someone may want to become.

Some of is i straight BS, but don't discount history's teaching cause some of it isn't up to par.

>>739218154
someone who thinks consciouness exists outside the brain and then gives an example of running on a computer program is not worth debating.

If you genuinely beleive that, scrape up all the evidence u can find, write a paper, get it peer reviewed and win a Nobel price

If a belief in "something" that is not provable by science, keeps some of the masses from doing bad shit, gives them hope to get through bad times. Acts as a placebo effect in healing just from the deluded hope. Is it really a bad thing?

>>739218994

Yep. People who believe absurdities can be made to commit atrocities. We should promote logical, evidence-based thinking wherever possible, not dogmatism.

Basically, religion is a Made up shit to control population in the Middle ages

>>739218994
makes them hit buildings with airplanes, exterminate people they don't agree with, deprive women of sexual pleasure by cutting part of their genitals off.
Is it really a bad thing?

>>739218994
It also causes some of the masses to do bad shit and acts as a nocebo.

>>739219152
First world muslums don't do that shit. Think it might be the conditions of the government that is supposed to keep them in check. Like Gangs in LA or any where else in the world. Take away the balance and wolves come out to play.

>>739218994
yes... its an absolutely terrible thing.

In terms of keeping the masses from doing bad shit, your either faking ignorance or just plain stupid to think religion has done more good than bad

Gives them hope to get through bad times. This develops as a dangerous placebo. God saved me from that depressing time, god must be real, im going to let religion dictate my life and impose it on other including vunrable children. This may seem far fetched but it happens to nearly all children with religious parents.

Acts as a placebo effect in healing the deluded. Yes scamming ill vunrable people is a terrible thing. If half of them spent their time educating themselves on science and biology rather than hoping someone will heal them with a click of the fingers, maybe they wouldnt get half as ill and go see an actual doctor

Rant over, religion is evil

>>739219301
First world Muslims campaign against free speech and enable the "third world" Muslims.

Radical religion is protected and nurtured by moderate religion.

>>739219301

Yes they do. In fact, when you correct for education, support for terrorism actually goes up for muslims. The majority of the 911 terrorists went to college, moreso than the general US population (only 52% of Americans are college-educated).

>>739219112

Absolutely true. But what if "something" occurred that absolutely eliminated all proof of "God". What would happen to the common man? All those who put all their time, life into believing, just to be proven it was nothing. Sure, the intelligent, logical individuals would stay focused, and go about their lives. You know there there would. Be mass chaos on a global scale.

>>739213025
I love how you go to the internet to confirm. Still haven't quite figured out how to think for yourself, eh? Good doggy, good boy

>>739219590
>the common man
The common man doesn't put all their life into believing. Belief is just another aspect in the background of life, more relevant for social activities than anything else.

Replace churches with secular gatherings and you've pretty much gotten back to where you were.

>>739219590

I don't think such proof can possibly exist. The truly religious can simply claim any proof was created by the devil to fool us or some other nonsense.

Mass chaos? On a smaller scale, think about humanity's perceived role in the universe. At one time, people believed earth was literally the center of the universe. Now we accept we are on a shitty, small rock in an unimportant galaxy, nothing special about it. With time, people can accept the truth without "mass chaos"

>>739219705

Just opening a discussion. Not proselytizing any side or agenda.

>>739219301
lol
you're delusional
the 9/11 hijackers were teachers and architects and law students, licensed pilots, etc etc
you clearly don't know what you're talking about

>>739219590
you cant eliminate nothing. I dont god will ever be disproved in terms of religion. Religions will always warp their religious texts around actual facts.

For example now that we know evolution is real. Adam and eve was just a metaphor to teach people about the right morals to have. Evolution is real but god helped it on its way.

These people will desperatly twist there fairytale to try and prove to themselves that it cant be fake. Pure brainwashing

>>739214746
Eh, I'll bite the bait. Just what are you gonna do about me running my mouth?

>>739219705

Um, because it's what people do instead of walking around and taking a poll? wtf.

>>739219705
>>discussing ideas is bad
you must be religious

Well I said I wasn't going to feed (You)s but here I go

>>739218309
The consciousness of the individual (ie his ability to think I am me) doesn't disappear if he's still able to think
Once he loses the ability to think obviously it goes away, but we can't know if this is because his consciousness disappears or if its means of expressing itself disappears and it does not

>>739218322
Consciousness is the ability to be self aware, ths style of Descartes cogito
Perhaps if a person changes you could say his consciousness is a different one, but it entirely depends on his own ability of being self aware, which an observer can not know

>>739218487
My claim is that we have no proof for nor against a brain that is responsible for consciousness, however I believe it is something that can't be reduced to the absolute materiality of connections in the brain, else we'd just as well be walking robots

>>739218755
None of the things you cited actually treat the question of consciousness, rather they treat the ability of the brain to process information
And why would I need to provide evidence when I'm simply contesting arguments, and not actually trying to say that one answer is the correct one?

>>739218899
I provide one potential example that you misunderstand and I'm "not worth debating"
Smells like reddit

Only one who actually argued in a proper manner was this guy >>739218322
and >>739218487

>>739220387
>>My claim is that we have no proof for nor against a brain that is responsible for consciousness

correct

>>however I believe it is something that can't be reduced to the absolute materiality of connections in the brain, else we'd just as well be walking robots

lol, you were the one claiming to be able to engage in critical thinking?

>>i don't like it, therefore it can't be true

you're right, it's better if you stop posting

>>739219786

There are many. And not taking about devoutly religious, who always have that, subconscious God think in their minds. Scary to think. But this is what keeps John Q Public from doing some bad, illegal shit. "Damn, my daughter looks so hot. Nope, God." "Fuck, I can't deal with this fucking ass boss and job anymore, that's it, I'm going to..."
Nope. God.

>>739220387
>I provide one potential example that you misunderstand and I'm "not worth debating"

Thats right. Sometimes an idea can be so stupid its not worth engaging.

What you said about how our conscienceless could be part of a computer program or something, isnt even a hypothesis, its simply a stupid idea.

Its like someone telling you the earth is 6000 years old because the book of genasis says so. Sometimes people just arnt worth arguing against

>>739213025
Then there is this
>Submit to your husbands': Women told to endure domestic violence in the name of God
>Research shows that the men most likely to abuse their wives are evangelical Christians who attend church sporadically
I have the full article if you want, it's from Australia

>>739220691
everyone who doesn't agree with me is an infidel who must be exterminated

>>739220872

Wasn't the point gomer.

>>739220610
That's a lot of condescension coming from someone with no arguments who can't even greentext kek

>>739220795
If consciousness only comes from the brain, and the brain is simply a series of connections of 1s and 0s, why can consciousness not be a computer program? You're contradicting your own argument

>>739220387
>Consciousness is the ability to be self aware
So consciousness is just an attribute of an individual?
>which an observer can not know
This starts getting "out there" but I'm not convinced that the "self" can really know either. Perhaps instead of "I think, therefore I am" it should be "Something thinks, therefore something is". This gets into old philosophical issues like the ship of theseus.
>else we'd just as well be walking robots
Not who you were responding to here, but what if that's effectively what we are? What if we are essentially biological robots, just made of flesh and blood instead of metal and silicon?

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>having an intellectual discussion on 4chan

>>739217137
Honestly, this famalam. The only problem is that I like to believe in reincarnation because I like to think that SOMETHING can redeem this shitty life I got.

>>739221282

What about schizophrenics with dissociative disorders? They don't even know who they are.
Is someone who is not able to be self-aware, have a conscious?

>>739221056
i was making a counterpoint to your "religion makes people do good things"

swoooooshhhhhh

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This was originally gonna be a reply in a religious thread, but its a little off topic so its now it's own thing.
There can't be "something from nothing."
Its either "something" has always existed or never existed.
We're missing something here. We're missing a lot of things. There are probably hundreds of senses we could have to amplify our existence in this universe and we just can't comprehend them.
Heres a question, why does life try so hard to continue existing? What compels us to survive? Its safe to assume fearing death is some genetic trait that most life shares, perhaps, and life's attempt at existing owes itself to that random, biological hiccup.
But some lifeforms aren't capable of comprehending the idea of death, so perhaps its the insatiable urge to reproduce, grow, and multiply, which is also presumably genetic.
I wish I could see the bigger picture.

>>739221970
Whoops accidentally posted it here, fuck, well there you go guys a slightly off topic thing

>>739221150
reading comprehension problems, huh?
everything was greentexted correctly
and saying "I want to believe this because the other options I don't like" is the least "critical thinking" possible

GOD IS REAL!!!! READ A BIBLE! GOD IS REAL!!!! READ A BIBLE! GOD IS REAL!!!! READ A BIBLE! GOD IS REAL!!!! READ A BIBLE! GOD IS REAL!!!! READ A BIBLE! GOD IS REAL!!!! READ A BIBLE! GOD IS REAL!!!! READ A BIBLE!

>>739221970
>Its either "something" has always existed or never existed.
Since something observably exists, it always existed.
>Heres a question, why does life try so hard to continue existing?
Because life that didn't try hard to continue existing went extinct. Evolution selects for organisms that try to survive.

>>739213025
Yes.

>>739221282
I know for a fact I'm more than just a material object since I'm aware that I exist, meaning I must also be a thought process (or consciousness) unique to itself
>instead of "I think, therefore I am" it should be "Something thinks, therefore something is"
This is wrong since I can only be certain of my own self awareness, and can be certain of no one else's. This goes for others who are self aware, it only works for yourself since it's your own thought process

I don't really know how you define robot so I'm not going to address the last question

>>739221735
That's an interesting question but if they're unable to even realise they exist then arguably they do not have a conscious

>>739222189
>mfw seminary is one of the main sources of atheists
ayy lmao

>>739213025

Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven. Read the Bible. Believe, be baptized, repent. Turn from your sins. God will reward you beyond your wildest dreams. And that's merely a preview of what God promises believers will experience after life.

You know that emptiness you feel anon? When, no matter what you do in life, it's never enough?

Everything of this world is a carrot on a stick and a trap. You can only find fulfillment in God and you can only get to God via Jesus Christ.

I have a line via prayer to the creator of the universe and all things. It's quite a privilege.

>>739222085
newfag kek

also when none of the options can be proven anyone's entitled to choose whatever they believe to be correct, so long as they're aware it's not proven

>>739213025
Yip

>>739220691
I think getting raped in a prison shower by niggers then spending the next 5-10 years in "protective custody" is what is keeping that guy in your example from fucking his kid not God.

>>739222251
>I know for a fact I'm more than just a material object since I'm aware that I exist
"You" think that you exist, but in what way does that mean that you are more than just a material object? Is a computer running software more than a material object? Can you say that the software is unique to itself if it is entirely dependent on the hardware?
>This is wrong since I can only be certain of my own self awareness, and can be certain of no one else's.
Can you be certain of your own self awareness though? Do "you" even exist?

Long story short: God is not a person. Not a spirit. God is the collective consciousness. God is the glue between me and you. God is found in quantum physics and how it relates to consciousness, the connection between the consciousness of all living beings. Your brain controls much more of this simulation we call the universe than you might realize.

Also, Jesus wasn't the Son of God. He was a magician (read: monk) that realized how much the brain could control, and he used his abilities to liberate people. By telling people to pray, he allowed them to tap into the collective consciousness and change the outcomes of certain events with faith (observation shapes reality as much as vice versa). Pretty cool dude.

>>739222340
>You know that emptiness you feel anon?
Nope.

Fun fact: prayer has been studied. People who think they are communicating with God are really just communicating with themselves.

>>739213025
It really depends on how you define God...
There are plenty of people that believe in a creator, and that creator put a piece of himself (dna) into all of us.
A good example of this (and a terrible movie) is Prometheus.

It is also entirely possible that he left some ancient rules for us to follow, or to guide civilization. It may even be possible that he is still watching us today. Given how long it takes to travel space, they may just be watching and are incapable of interacting. We may even be descendants of a fallen empire.

If you believe in super powers, resurrection, and the idea of a divine reward in the afterlife, then YOU are the absolute worst, but you know what.... Keep doing it. Because if believing you will be happy when you die will make you be a less shitty person, then please do that.

>>739222751
>quantum physics
Bullshit alert.

>>739222340
>my one book written by ancient ricefarming sandniggers is the only one with truth in it
>all who don't believe in it go to hell, even those that die before ever getting exposed to it
>99% of people go to hell
But God is a pretty good guy!

>>739213025
not necessarily...

>>739222892
Just because you don't understand the relationship between quantum entanglement, consciousness and multiverse theory doesn't mean everyone who brings it up is full of shit.

Please, anon. Go read a book.

OP here. Thanks for the thread. At a major crossroads in my life. I've given many hours to all of this. I lean toward atheist, but I wish there was "something". To put it in simple terms.

>>739223093
are u gay

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read this and every book it references
you will no longer be uncertain
also do DMT or suffer enough head trauma to naturally do DMT...

>>739223093
>Go read a book.
I have, I just don't read them from snake oil salesmen.

>>739222340

>It's quite a privilege.

Ignorance is bliss, not a privilege.

Also promising shit like Muslims do about 72 virgins from a sky fairy in exchange of doing things as said by other humans and a trilogy of 2000 year old sand folklore is beyond retarded.


>>739221600

You mean to be ignorant but happy, instead of being mature and understanding the inherent indifference of the universe towards everything, meaning nothing anyone does will have value nor importance.

>>739223227
>fuck up your brain enough until you believe as I do
ayy lmao

>>739223272

As long as ones delusional beliefs don't negatively effect others, and they don't proselytize. If it makes one happy. Why the fuck not?

>>739223333
yeah, that was facetious, as if to say "in case you doubt that DMT is viable as a means to communicate with the beyond, remember it's probably the same chemical that activates near-death-experiences / "the light at the end of the tunnel" experiences"

>>739223650
>As long as ones delusional beliefs don't negatively effect others
>Why the fuck not?
Because this is a contradiction. Delusional beliefs will negatively affect others, even if it is more subtle than flying planes into buildings.

>>739223208
Your brain may decay, but the energy pattern that is your consciousness remains in entangled atoms for eternity.

Enjoy.

>>739223211
Yes. Although I hardly see your point.

>>739223254
So theoretical physicists are all snakeoil salesmen? People with PhDs doing experiments on human consciousness are saleoil snakemen?

You're either a Christian or a retard. Although I feel redundant in listing them separately.

>>739223861
cos u can only be a gay fag to type that shit

>>739222597
I know I exist as a consciousness because I am thinking about it right now

If anything, I can't know if I actually exist physically, since it could be an image or a projection

>>739223809

Not defending people "allowing themselves to be delusional". But people can believe in their heads whatever they choose. It is action that has consequences.

>>739223861
>So theoretical physicists are all snakeoil salesmen?
No, the snake oil salesmen are the ones who take what the theoretical physicists can actually show and warp it to fit their spiritual / mystical nonsense.

>>739224035
I'm not saying that we should criminalize beliefs, but I am saying that delusional beliefs will cause negative consequences.

>>739223650
A lot of people end up making terrible decisions based on "faith."
"I'm on God's path! I can't be wrong!"
Is a terrible mentality some people fall into. It is even worse when they live in communities together and convince their neighbors of the same bullshit. Thats how we ended up with literal witch hunts, wild west justice, and the idea that [insert mainstream conservative view point against poor people here.]

Jesus had some good teachings though...
Basically, don't be a dick. I'm sure a lot of today's religious folk would kill their prophet when he returns.

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>>739213025
No.
God is real.
It is religion that is bullshit.

Men in funny hats speaking gibberish and calling it "tongues".

Telling us that Adam and Eve were the first humans rather than the first Hebrews. (The who were the (People of the land of Nod that Cain was banished to? GENESIS 4:17)

Telling us that eating apples was the "first sin"
(Odd the punishment for Adam and Eve seems related to her Pregnancy?)

Yeah the book does not say what you are told it says.

So avoid the Churches and just read the book.


(That is often good advice regarding movies too.)

>>739223986
>I know I exist as a consciousness because I am thinking about it right now
Really? What if "you" only exist for one instantaneous moment in time, and each time a thought occurs it's something new thinking it? Is "you" still a meaningful construct?

>>739224220

Not if that delusion prevents people to do wrong.

>>739224120
You realize many theoretical physicists themselves are spiritual, and believe spirituality lies in sufficiently complex science?

Please stop projecting. Not all scientists are atheistbros.

>>739224332
Hint: the book is bullshit too.

>>739224456
Isaac Newton believed in alchemy and Bible codes, that doesn't make those things correct.

>>739224380
The continuity of the individuals identity doesn't matter
The fact that at each instant I am able to think "I exist" is enough to prove beyond any doubt that I exist in some form, even if it were completely different to what I think it is

>>739224392
That delusion will enable other delusions, causing people to do wrong.

>>739213025

No.

>>739224695

Some people.

>>739224612
>strawman out of nowhere
Kek

>>739224674
>The continuity of the individuals identity doesn't matter
It doesn't?
>The fact that at each instant I am able to think "I exist" is enough to prove beyond any doubt that I exist in some form
That's the whole issue though. If you don't have continuity, how do you exist? What does it mean to exist without it?

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>>739224489
Well yes and no.

The translators admitted they could only do so well with the information they had. (1611 KJV) See http://newalbany-louisvillebiblestudents.com/pages/Article%20of%20the%20Month/4-12%20article-month.htm

>>739224851
>strawman
Err... no. It's an example.
>out of nowhere
It seems extremely relevant. It shows that scientists are not necessarily always logical, and that their scientific expertise does not extend into other areas.

>>739224935
Well no in the sense that not literally every line is bullshit.

>>739225026
Yes. So since one scientist was illogical, all scientists are illogical. I see your point.

>>739217050

Inventing a story that the world is overseen by a god of judgement and punishment was the best explanation a Bronze Age tribe in the Middle East could come up with for why their lives were always so fucked. It's a heartiest memes the world has ever known.

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we can't know for sure. quantum physics tells us there very well may be a divine force in this universe holding everything together. that or the universe is a fabrication of some one else's thoughts.

>>739224898
If you have a glass of water that is constantly replacing the water in it seamlessly, it will always be full even if the water is always changed

Similarly, it doesn't matter if an individuals identity changes every instant, his consciousness (if he has one) is simply the ability to know he exists, that is to follow Descartes cogito. It exists independently of everything else

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>>739221346

>/b/ - Random

>>739225285
No, since one scientist was illogical, not all scientists are logical. A scientist writing something does not make it science.

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>>739225388
That's the problem.
That's what most of them teach.

But it isn't the whole story.

AND so much of what they DO teach is utter nonsense.

You and I are not here because Adam and Eve ate Apples.

We are all here because of a war in Heaven one which we all participated in.

If these Churches taught the truth and did it for free? If the vast sums of money they took in was used to care for Widows and the poor.

Well the REAL lesson is not far off.

I am just tired of waiting for it.

>>739225571
>If you have a glass of water that is constantly replacing the water in it seamlessly, it will always be full even if the water is always changed
Sure, and you can collect the water that was replaced into another glass such that now you have a glass with contents identical to the initial contents of the original glass. What does that mean for the original glass?
>his consciousness (if he has one) is simply the ability to know he exists
He thinks he knows he exists, but does he actually know?
> It exists independently of everything else
Does it? What if it is, in fact, dependent on something?

>>739225921
>We are all here because of a war in Heaven one which we all participated in.
Prove it.

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>>739225546

We'll know for sure eventually, or end any chance at knowing.

>>739217385
I belive the nothingness part after death but, what happens after that? we dont know we are dead but do we reincarnate? eternity of nothingness seems depressing

>>739226435
>eternity of nothingness seems depressing
Why?

>>739226435

You're not aware to feel the depression or anything for that matter. And yes, this thought is depressing.

>>739226507
eh, now that i think about it its not to bad... i hope we reincarnate! id like to live life as a tiger or a hamster

>>739226548
Thats true, man you guys really opened up my eyes tonight.

>>739225646
But I read things from many scientists, thus they all must be illogical for having similar views of the relation between spirituality and theoretical physics.

Oh an experimentation that proves consciousness has an effect on forces and whatnot outside the brain? Must be complete hogwash. Obviously a channer knows more about this than a PhD.

>>739226507

Because it's a normal human response even if illogical. Fear of nothing.

>>739226548
>this thought is depressing
imo it's reassuring to me

>>739226718
Makes you wonder whats after death tho, i mean, can you atleast talk to yourself or are you just...nothing...for eternity?

>>739226622
Nice triple dubs, but
>hamster
Nigger what the fuck? Also, energy patterns can't reincarnated down in complexity. Only up or sideways. Sorry.

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>>739213025

>>739226755
Im an ex-christian so i went from "Ill see family and friends while living in clouds and shit" to Nothing.

>>739226683
>But I read things from many scientists, thus they all must be illogical for having similar views of the relation between spirituality and theoretical physics.
Not necessarily, but they could be. In any event, it isn't science until it goes through the scientific method.
>Oh an experimentation that proves consciousness has an effect on forces and whatnot outside the brain?
If consciousness is fundamentally physical in nature, this makes perfect sense. How is that spiritual?

>>739226683

Not that related. What about these devices that strap to the head, that you can control drones, etc., with?

>>739226837
Assuming the scientific understanding of the universe (everything is in cycles, universe is reborn after heat death via another big bang), you would eventually come back. And the "eternity" between this death and your next birth would be instantaneous from your point of view.

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>>739225921

why do you even bother writing

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>>739226043
It something you have to seek out yourself brother.

There are clues and comments about it through out the book.

But be assured we are born oblivious not innocent.

We existed long before we are born.

Why do you think so many folks think they are "Cleopatra" reincarnated? Because as Souls in waiting we all could watch events unfolding on Earth. Many of us WATCHED history unfold.

Consider Gods comments about Jacob: (Malachi 1:2) Was not Esau Jacob's brother?' the LORD says. 'Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland

And later (Jeremiah 1:5) Before you were in the womb I knew ye!

Or just read Job 38...

All of these talk about why we "mankind" are here. And allude to the point that we are more than just humans.

Or were you asking for proof of a war?

>>739226877
Nice dubs, its all good, it does kinda ease my mind knowing there is endless sleep after death, Now time to explain to the wife why i should ride a motorcycle (cbr600rr) ((she thinks ill get myself killed)) "But babe, if i die ill just be asleep for like a long time..underground"

>>739226987
You seem to misunderstand that the spirit very well could be a physical thing. I see I am not having a discussion with somebody well versed on the topic.

>>739227044
Really??????!!!!!! Yes!!!!!

>>739226988
...what about them?

>>739226928
To give you an idea of what eternity would be like:

Imagine being stuck in a plain room with one book for years. Now imagine that the lifespan of a star happens in the blink of an eye while you're stuck in that room because of how much time your'e dealing with. Eternity would be torture. No matter how many friends and family you had or how much there was to see and do, you would be driven completely insane by the extreme gulf of time.

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>>739215130
actually, you're quasi correct, cosmo - evolution is a fact. this doesn't mean we understand life, or that we developed from bacteria. plebargument/10.

>>739227044

Yeah, but the "new you" would have no memories, self-awareness of the old you.

>>739227277
>you would be driven completely insane
Actually i wouldnt because i wouldnt be able to feel, or hear, or see.

>>739213025

If that wasn't obvious initially upon even trying to read the garbage in that book, you may be retarded.

I don't even believe other people truly believe. I think they are just too stupid to look stuff up.

There could be a God, but it sure as shit isn't one of the ones from the desert trilogy written by the guys who didn't know where the sun went at night.

>>739213025
Maybe. There might be a god, but it clearly deserves more contempt and hatred than respect and praise.

>>739227141
The book is the thing making the claims. I do not believe things just because they are in the Bible.

>>739227383
thats good, starting off with a clean slate, hope i dont fuck up in my next life...

>>739227383
It is still reassuring to believe you come back, even without memories.

Shit, all I could hope for is that the next iteration of me does a better job at living.

>>739227218
The word spirit is so poorly defined as to be effectively meaningless.

>>739227521
>>739227497
The hivemind... also the sadness.

>>739227521
>>739227521
>Shit, all I could hope for is that the next iteration of me does a better job at living.
This is how i feel, so far this life is trash, hope i will try harder next time, its also a weird thought knowing that the next me isnt going to know all the shit i learned in school, hope the new me is smarter.

>>739227595
Keep beating around the bush. I enjoy reading your drivel.

>>739227271

Conscious though has an effect on forces, objects outside the brain.

>>739227489
What other books do you reject, entirely out of hand?

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>>739214195
This isn't about who worships, or how it makes you feel. The question whether or not a god exists is a philosophical question, requiring logic and evidence to answer, not emotion.

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>>739227141

>>739227698
>implying I'm the one beating around the bush
This is actually a major issue with spirituality in general. It doesn't really mean anything.

>>739213025
Still more believable than a magic nothing that poofed into existence then exploded for no reason

Face it, we are living in a simulation, in a simulation, in a simulation. Our God is our creator.

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>>739213025
Not unless you believe in ancient aliens.

>>739227764
I reject most books that can't give sources to back up their claims.

>>739214863
How did all of this shit start oh enlightened one?

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>>739227855
Nice dubs.
May peace be with you.

>>739227748
>>739227748
That isn't an example of that. An example of that would be meditators causing adverse reactions in the photon patterns of a double slit experiment.

In the example you give, the brain is simply having it's electromagnetic frequencies read -- the forces are controlled by the electronics of the device. That's like saying that when you use your mouse to click through porn, your hand is controlling the internet. Ffs.

>>739228098
I don't know. Not knowing isn't an excuse to make up an answer.

>>739228012

Weed smoking, matrix watching. "We're all part of a simulation man. What we think is what they want us to think, en stuff, en junk."

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>>739227902
Whew lad

Captcha related. I'm this close (close) to losing it reading your bullshit.

>>739213025
Yes.

>>739213025
Yeah, pretty much. I mean, clearly higher powers exist, we are a higher "power" to other things like ants, fleas, etc. They would probably see us as gods, but as far as there being one all powerful being that rules reality, tell me this, is there just one of anything?

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>>739228083
OK but the Old Testament is just that- old..

It is more than one book and far more than one author.

Psalm 22 for example is based on Hebrew writing that predates the existence of Rome and crucifixion as a form of execution. By at least 800 years. Go read Psalm 22 and see if it reminds you of anyone?

The point is our translation of the Bible was translated and compiled the for first time in 1611. But its many parts are far far older.

If you see it as just one book you failing to understand its actual historical significance.

>>739228282
In what way is it bullshit? What does spirituality mean? If someone says they are spiritual but not religious, what is that?

If you can sit there with a straight face and tell me that a spirit can be material, I'm going to tell you that the word you are using is so generic as to be meaningless.

Im worried about what my next life will hold, will my mom be a crackhead or will she be a rich congress woman? Scares me /b/ros

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>>739228012
The only thing that was missing from the Matrix, where rampant 360-no-scope-sharpshooters.

>>739228177

How far off is technology from human on human thought control? Influencing behavior, belief, conscious.

>>739228545
I understand that it is more than one book, and indeed, the books are based on oral traditions that predate the books. My point remains.

I do not find prophecies and such that you find in the Bible compelling.

>>739228567
The spirit refers to disembodied consciousness. All major religions and theologies agree on this aspect.

>t. Retard

>>739216555
Checked. Also I agree something to the tune of the last universe created the first. Obviously a rudimentary form of putting it but that's the gist

>>739228777
Dont need technology for that.

>>739213025
You are all masturbating. The construct is built in such a way as to prevent you from knowing. Whether the construct was built by man through trial and error or consideration, or rather, the construct was built by some other, more majestic "thing", for lack of a better word.

A better question to ask is; Do we need God? Do prayers ever get answered? maybe, sort of, could be, probably is, coincidence. A better question is: why doesn't God intercede? Given answer: his knowing is beyond our understanding - and that sounds like bullshit.

But if he exists and does not truly intercede on our behalf, what use does he have left? Judge us? Why? I mean, we're dead. Heaven and Hell are unproven constructs.

Or as Laura Nyro wrote "I swear there ain't no heaven, and I pray there ain't no hell. But I'll never know by living, only by dying will tell"

I think what's great about America is the ability to make your own choice I come from an angle where I believe in god yet I fully understand that I could be wrong the bible even stats that we were put on this earth for free will live life how you choose man ether way they're no wrong answers

>>739228954
>The spirit refers to disembodied consciousness. All major religions and theologies agree on this aspect.
I don't think you are correct on this.

>t. Making shit up

>>739229015

Yep. It's been happening for centuries.