How did this happen seriously guys im really asking

we rejected communism

I don't know much but Trump won't revert that for sure.

>>739090825
Whats wrong with that? When literally half the country doesnt make enough tto be taxed because they are dumb or lazy, that will happen.

Because poor people can't plan ahead. They will spend more in frivolities than "rich people"

Also the poverty level here includes iPhones cable TV and eating out daily. Candy soda cigarettes beer. Living like a god damn king in any other time period.

The wealth gap has always exist it is just easier to get wealth higher with modern corporations. Not much you can do money has always equaled power

>>739091086
Meh

>>739090825
Wealth inequality is by definition not a problem. The creation of wealth is what makes everyone better off. In the U.S. the wealthiest people gain wealth by creating products and services everyone demands. IE. Apple invents an iphone, and we're all better off because of it. Wealth comes from producing something someone else wants. Therefore, those who produce very little are not wealthy, those who produce a lot, and/ or provide capital to those who produce a lot become wealthy. This is the most productive and effective way to run a society as even the worse off parties (ie. "the poor") have cars, cable television, access to food, water, shelter, entertainment, etc.

>>739091086
this,

those poor people might only have 7% of the wealth but individually that is a lot compared to a lot of countries

>>739090825
It happened because trump got elected.
He also caused the holocaust

When the people who write the laws are all bought and paid for by the rich, what the fuck did you think was going to happen?

>>739090825
Wait, rich people have more money than poor people? Shocked, shocked I am to learn of this!

>>739090825
our great grandparents were taught that socialism is a cancer, and every generation since in tow.
Capitalism however in their day worked well when the general populous upheld socialist beliefs and efforts ("don't steal THAAAT much money from the church charity fund, Charlie!")("Oh let's just give it away to charity Donald the war is tough on everybody.").
Fucking ironic, isn't it?

>>739091196
Which is why, in the last 20 years, only the top 20% have gained any noticeable wealth?

>>739091009
>being this stupid
go get the GED and quit posting like you know shit sonny

>>739091110
The concentration of wealth is actually becoming less concentrated at the top over time. The Dow (top 30 companies excluding some financial institutions) was 36% of the wealth in the 70's. Now it's much less.

>>739091371
People are making different choices than those before them. They're not producing or investing in those who are productive as those before them have done. (At least, not nearly as much of them as before).

Hey, guys, listen! What if -- listen -- what if we got a lot more poor people, so many that they wound up having most of the money! And maybe, no listen, maybe we could get all the rich people to leave the country, so the rich would have NONE of our wealth!

I mean, that solves all the problems in that chart, right?

>>739091086
Oh yeah how many poor people do you actually know faggot?
>We live like Kings of the 15th Century what's to bitch about
actually, a lot judging by the current standards but that's okay go ahead and maintain your 15th century attitude you dumb cunt, stay stuck in that ancient ass line of thinking.

>>739091252
>we're less poor than a third world country
wow, you hold some pretty high standards for the USA huh

we should pat ourselves on the back that we only mutilate male penis at birth, instead of also female vagina
wanting anything better is herecy

>>739091267
While you're insane, you do make a valid point that government force is bad, because wealthy people will use that power.

>>739090825
let prof. pteterson explain to you what the pareto distribution has got to do with that.

>>739090825
If everybody was poor, the poor would have 100% the money.

>>739091337
>being this yoda
Yoda dumbest anon

How to fix: Go to college and get a good job. Who cares about it as long as you're not on the bottom

>>739091086
so much this.

most of the "poor" people in this country should go to a damn third world country and see if they still feel like the Man is keeping them down.

>>739091596
Since the 1800's, people have been saying, we're wealthy enough to just redistribute all of the wealth and solve all of our problems. Every society that has attempted to do this has been worse off for doing so. Encouraging productivity is the only way to improve society for everyone.

>>739091781
That attitude is precisely why this country is fucked

>>739091781
College may not be the answer for some people. But stated more broadly in economic terms:
>Gain marketable skills
>Work harder than your peer group
>Save money

>>739091196
lmao being this much of a shill
Your argument is a bunch of inflated opinions with no backing to it whatsoever other than the words of a bunch of wealthy pricks who have no interest in hearing otherwise.
You sure know a lot of nothing.

>>739091882
See
>>739091932

>>739091593
lame bait

>>739091544
you are either a shill, or you are legally retarded.
Either way, btfo faggot

Jesus Christ people are stupid/ignorant in this thread. Google it and find a well-sourced video and/or document OP. The explanations/theories are long and boring, but they are worth understanding.

>>739091935
No, economists have studied this for a long time.

See the following:

Milton Friedman
Adam Smith
Thomas Sowell
Friedrich von Hayek

>>739091422
>hey, I don't pay attention to numbers or statistics, so here's my opinion.

>>739091989
>hurr that's bait huuur hurrr

>>739091544
so, 80% of the population suddenly started making bad choices when Reagan got elected? Makes perfect sense to me

The more money you give freely to the poor, the less money is worth, the more you bridge the divide between the rich and the poor, the more you make it harder for intelligent people who want to start a business to be successful, which leads to poor competition, which leads to lower quality products. Which leads to more undesireable living environments.

Literally point to one socialost country that hasnt ended in disaster, one where the utopia you idiots imagine actually works

>>739092117
studying economists is akin to studying ant farming.
You can only learn so much, it's boring as shit, and after minimal effort anyone can understand it.
Except you it seems.

>>739090825
Poor people get credit cards to buy expensive shit on credit to not look poor, then they go into debt because of how much they owe/can't pay back.

>>739090825

OP asks the important question. Too many people point to these charts and scream, "PROBLEM!"

Ask yourself what you actually know about this situation.

1. What economic/legislative/social forces created this?
2. Who are the people on the top? Business owners? Private individuals? Wealthy investors? Statesmen and political figures? Who has the dough, and why?

Most people cannot answer those first two questions. As such, they have no right to offer answers to the third question:

3. How do we change it?

>>739090825
Money is a scam of sorts. It's not a scam in the sense as buying an xbox at ebay and getting a cardboard box with X on it, but it is a scam.
The purpose of this scam is to extract free labour. It's not that terrible, we all love having roads, a polices, military, and so on, but it is a scam. It's for the smart to exploit the stupid for good and all the other things. That's the government side of the story. Money is means to get the people do things for the government, hence turning scribbles on a paper into actions.

Then there's the private side of the story; after reaching a certain point in being wealthy the wealth itself becomes self-sustaining. But this is relative, you can only spend a percentage of what your wealth generates and this depends on the local economy. You don't need to be a wage slave if you don't want to. Simply move to a country where the spendable percentage of your wealth is enough for you to live off it.

Or start a business and get other people work harder for whatever you provide. If you're smart you'll make plenty money and turn that money into power which you use to get more money.

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>>739090825
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pareto+distribution

>>739091550
But first let's make sure I keep my beach house.

>>739092292
>Hey, I'm gonna ignore how awesome socialist Europe is doing, and, here goes.

>>739092367
FUCKING THIS
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>739092292
Every country has rich and poor people. The objective difference between a first and third world country is that a first world country has a thriving middle class.

Now, what do you think it indicates when the line between a country's middle and lower class becomes more and more blurred while the upper class increasingly distances themselves from the rest?

>>739091935
>I'm a socialist fag who would deny statistics regardless of if they were true and presented to me like a fifth grader

Get over yourself

>>739090825
The answer to your question is generational wealth.

Lookup what percentages of each of those groups started within the one they're within now.

Capitalism itself isn't what's broken here, it had been working just fine in the US for generations up until inheritance laws begun changing.

>>739092367
wisdom has spoken

>>739092136
There's actually a lot of work on the subject, and it's why investors have become more critical of the Dow over time. S&P 500 index has become a better indicator of overall market trends. Additionally, as companies issue stock splits over time, the actual Dow number has become more and more meaningless.

>>739091196
>apple iPhone
>literatly the worst smart phone

>>739092388
it's a trap don't do it.

>>739092234
They've always made poor choices. But it had more to do with the economic inefficiencies that inflated the value of labor in the united states (IE. popularization of plane travel) and computers which changed which skills were important to gain. Many people chose not to learn those skills.

>>739092608
>I'm a capitalist sheep who doesn't understand the first thing about fair play in economics or economics in general
show me your so called stats faggot.
Credible institutions.

>>739090825
Things got better for the poor and middle class.
It used to be 1% owned around 90% of the wealth.

>>739092794
>This information, critical to the subject, contradicts my point of view. It be a trap niggu.

>>739092367

I would also add to this, they shouldn't be voting for a guy who claims to have answers.

I liked Bernie, but I didn't for a second think that he understands wealth distribution and was going to give us any answer other than letting the government take all out rights for the "good of the people."

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meh

>>739092662
>HURRRRR DURRRRR

>>739092747
There are countless new innovations. This is one that is often used as an example because it is culturally pervasive.

>>739092717
>overlooking the greater issue propping up both of those entities.
good lord, anon

>>739092905
no cuz you gave me virus faggot.
fuck you

>>739092910
This is not accurate, but we'll give Carlin a pass since his goal was to become funny. There's nobody who says we need to give the rich money. There are people who state we should steal less of it.

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Daily reminder that the bottom 10% of people in the US are part of the top 1% world wide. If you want wealth redistributed then get ready to give up 99% of what you have, champaign socialists.

>>739091371
Fucking idiot.
It doesn't matter what % of the wealth you get, it matters what you can buy with what you do have.

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>>739091086
This is proven false.
Poor people do not have the disposable income to save up in the first place.

When they put rich people on poor budgets, they ALWAYS fail.

There's also the time factor you're ignoring.
>iphones
Not an option.
>Cable TV
Shrinking in use as we fucking speak.
>Eating out daily
Commonly a result of working two "part time" jobs that are one or two hours short of being full time, kept that way on purpose to avoid giving you benefits
And because you can't get benefits you have to go and pay out of pocket for most of your medical, dental, optical, etc.
And because you work so much, you don't have the time or energy to spend 20 minutes chopping vegetables and searing some chicken and then throwing it all together in a lasagna or some shit that takes another hour to cook.
Maybe on your day off you manage that, but not 7 days a fuckin week.

Again, THEY HAVE DONE STUDIES ON WHY POOR PEOPLE ARE POOR AND "FRIVOLOUS SPENDING" IS NOT ON THE LIST.

Wages have GONE DOWN against inflation since the 70s while the cost of living has SKYROCKETED.

THAT IS WHY POOR PEOPLE ARE POOR. PERIOD. Problem solved. Mystery over. CEO pay has gone up 400% adjusted for inflation while median employee pay has gone down like 5%.

-5% vs +400%
READ THAT AGAIN.
Keep reading that until it sinks in.

The vast, vast majority of all productivity gains in our economy have been funneled to the executive corporate and political level since the 1970s.

That's literally the sum of the issue. Companies got greedy. Period.

We've spent the last 36 years cutting taxes at the top and keeping wages stagnant at the bottom. Fairly simple.

>>739093141
>taxation is theft
Not this shit again.

>>739093137
You deserve whatever virus you got, if you got it from lmgtfy.

>>739091733
Yes, that's the goal of Socialism... make e everyone poor.

>>739093212
See >>739091932

>>739093239
this

>>739093141
there are PLENTY of people who for whatever God damn reason think the rich do deserve more and more money
>protip: it's them

>>739090825
95% of the population isn't as smart or able as the top 5%. Being born doesn't give you the right to be rich.

>>739093212
How to not be poor:
-learn a trade
-don't have kids until you're married

Congrats, you're middle class.

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ITT: /b/ demonizes the poor and assumes they're all not working/trying to find a job while spending all of their government money on drugs.

>>739092400
I thought this post was sarcastic until I read his post. What the fuck are you talking about? Europe has become a migrant shithole and not a single country in europe has been able to seriously compete with our highly efficient capitalist economy. Yes, capitalism has problems and yes socialism can work, but when done right capitalism will always produce more advances and capitalism will always create stronger economies.

>>739093141

In addition, no one is handing out money to the poor. We set up expensive social programs for the poor, which in turn create a habit of requiring subsistence.

I work for a charity, and it constantly irks me when my bosses say, "More people than ever are coming to us, this is a successful program!"

>>739093245
10 people on an island. Each of them goes and collects food. 1 guys collects more fruit than everyone else. The others vote and decide the guy who collected more fruit should give the others his fruit. He says he chooses not to. They put him in a cage and take his fruit by force.

How is this not stealing?

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>>739090825
every inch of me just wants to die reading through this thread.
Every
Fucking
INCH
of my physical being.
MFW the wealthy are winning and we are all going to suffer

>>739092367
Another important thing to clarify for people is who are the people on the bottom. Most see that and think 80% = only poor people on welfare and minimum wage career fast food employees.

That 80% also includes Doctors/lawyers, throw in the next 15% and you have just about everyone who works for a living. Everything above that is someone who's main source of income is owning things, rather than any work they do themselves.

That would be fine now if the majority of that top group were individuals who built up those things they now own themselves, but the majority of them inherited it. That's the problem.

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>>739093195
>not knowing the difference between cash and wealth
>calling me an idiot
top pip

>>739093435
>not getting things for free is equal to having no human or individual rights
What spoiled brat made that image?

>>739091196
This is hilariously wrong.
The wealthiest people get STARTED creating products and services.
The vast majority of the rich sustain and grow their wealth beyond that point with investments.

Furthermore, production is controlled exclusively by the rich. You cannot brainstorm a new genius idea and start production anymore without selling your idea out to someone who's already rich who has the infrastructure and connections to exploit your idea. You end up, at best, with a 50% cut. Best case scenario.

The internet is a counter example, because it's currently cheap to rent server space, so you can launch a new website overnight and make it big without needing investors, but net neutrality being stolen away may well put an end to that as well.

By the way, "How poor can you be if you have a television and a car with 300k miles that breaks down every month?" is absurd. The statistics verify that poverty is relative.

The name for what sin you just committed is the "Fallacy of Relative Privation."

>>739091086
Shut it with your facts sonny boy!

>>739093487
Stop working for an organization in which you disagree with their values.

>>739093519
The taxes payed by the wealthy are the only reason you can even conceive of such a thing as minimum wage or socialized healthcare.

>>739093507
That's a gross oversimplification of taxation. It shows to me how poorly educated you are and tells me that your opinions can be dismissed entirely without a second thought.

>>739093212
>THAT IS WHY POOR PEOPLE ARE POOR. PERIOD. Problem solved. Mystery over. CEO pay has gone up 400% adjusted for inflation while median employee pay has gone down like 5%.

Also incorrect. If you treat CEOs like their own population, you'll find that it's only the top 1% of those who have had their incomes skyrocket. Most CEOs are just hard working people trying to take their businesses to the next level.

>>739093465
>not looking at Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, Poland, Iceland etc.
yeah your not looking at the entire continent of Europe but feel free to pretend you're smart.

>>739093212
Im a fucking dishwasher making less than 20000k USD yearly and i can afford an apartment and a nice computer and video games. Shit like roommating and not having a bunch of kids can save a fuckton of money. Managing finances is not that hard unless you fuck yourself over

>>739093572
Why do investments become worth more money? Because the produce value, and provide a return on investment. Almost everything else you typed is nonsense. The only people who take a 50% cut of what you own is the government.

>>739093212

Here we have someone who claims to understand the problem.

So then, what is a viable solution?

And it better not be some version of, "Let's take all the money from these folks and give it to those folks."

>>739091402
I make more money then you so stop being lazy you entitled fuck

>>739093596
stop shitting on people who actually get off their ass and contribute.

>>739093608
LOL now I know, you are legitimately retarded.

>>739093507
Im not big on taxation but this is retarded. Do you actually believe your tax money goes to the fucking secretary of the treasury so he can spend it on hookers and blow?

>>739093797
Keep all your money, till you die. Your kids can keep a small portion, but most of it gets tossed back into the wild for the next generation of best/brightest to fight over.

>>739093760
>roommating and not having a bunch of kids
>just give up on your hope of living independently and having a family then you can achieve a meager lower middle class life like me!

>>739093632
No, stuck on an island or life boat examples are a common philosophical tool used to examine moral choices among groups of people and their interactions. I learned this in college in a philosophy elective while I was getting an accounting degree. But I suppose since you only have an ad hominem argument, then you really don't have much to stand on.

>>739093712
That's right. Most CEOs are just regular people who have their tailor sew their designer pants on one leg at a time, just like everybody else

>>739093782
So how is the value for which the return is provided determined? How does it "produce" value?

>>739093858
The person said they disagreed with their organization's goals and values. Then perhaps they should work for an organization that is aligned with their goals and values. This is not a complex thought. Right?

>>739093856
lol you are a literal strawman with no argument you are garbage boyo

>>739093239

If we've been cutting taxes at the top, then why does 68% of all income tax come from the top 5% of the earning population?

In the state of California, where I live, the top 1% of earners pay 49% of all income taxes.

What was why in 2008 when the market began to crash California found itself with a gigantic deficit, because those people who they depend on most for taxes suddenly didn't make enough money to pay them.

Most economists will tell you that it's a very unbalanced and potentially dangerous system to base your tax expectations on a small group
of people.
Go on, tell me again, we're not taxing them enough.

>>739093758
A. Several of those countries are migrant shitholes
B. None of those countries are as successful as the US.
Did you even read my post?

Essentially the invention of electronic currency via the stock market. Most of that money doesn't even have cash backing it up so people can just say that money exists based on speculation and market exchange.

>>739090825
"trickle down"

>>739093946
They do a bunch of dumb things with it. They buy failing companies, they buy bombs to drop on other shitty countries. They give some of it to poor people. They give some of it to rich people. They give some of it to various non-profit organizations. They give some of it to other corrupt governments. What they do with it doesn't matter. They're still taking it against someone else's will.

>>739094081
The problem is not a single organization I've ever found sponsored in the states will agree with anon's values as they all operate on an income model therefore that was a sarcastic statement on your part therefore, no sir, offer better advice or btfo.

The problem is that the market isn't actually free, massive corporations are paying politicians to enact laws that cause small businesses to fail, meaning that only the current, big businesses can survive.

>>739093968
Im 19 bud. Not terribly worried about marrying right this fucking second. Would rather save money, which is still prettu easy on my budget and still buying things i want

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>>739094111
See the red line?

>>739094050
By people voluntarily choosing to purchase the goods or serviced produced because it maximizes utility for those people. (IE. customers).

>>739090825
neoliberalism in purest form. That happens when any kind of regulation is considered as basically a communism.

>>739093507
Here let me fix that for you:
10 people on an island with enough fruit trees to feed all of them.

One guy picks fruit faster than the rest, and the others end up with more fruit than he can eat. He then trades that fruit to the others to have them do whatever he feels like having them do. Eventually he ends up owning the trees themselves and doesn't have to pick fruit at all.

>>739094111
We have drastically cut tax rates at the top over the last 36 years. That's an objective fact. Not sure what you're arguing about that.

>>739094115
>ever been to Europe? I haven't! HAA
Keep pretending

>>739093523

Well said, but I don't consider it a problem that people can pass on their wealth generation to generation.

I consider it freedom.

Now had we gotten Hillary as president, that would have been a problem. Don't forget that one of her tax propositions was to increase the estate tax to 75%.

Fuck that bitch.

>>739093856
I make more money then. Hahaha its *Than. Lrn 2 spek engrish

>>739093975

>>739094308
so how does that ascribe tangible "value?"

>>739093322
That's irrelevent.

>>739093422
Also irrelevent.

There are a finite number of trade jobs in the world.
I'm an engineer and even with 10,000 job openings it's getting competitive out here. As more people take this advice and go the trade route, the advice becomes worth less and less.

Further, as an engineer, let me tell you that automation is going to murder trade jobs.

As a uni intern I worked for a company that developed vibrational trench diggers. Meaning that rather than digging trenches the old way to lay cable, the machine vibrated a giant metal fin rapidly into the soil while feeding the wire or tubing they wanted buried down through the loose dirt to the depth required.

I personally worked on the first self-piloted prototype. It could lay dozens of yards of cable with no human input while avoiding construction markers and humans and equipment in its path.

Shit's about to explode. Trucking is the biggest industry in the US and self-driving trucks will be mainstream by 2030.

>>739093712
Last I recall, even mom and pop CEO pay had gone up 20-50% in the past 40 years.
Not much, but these are still the retards claiming minimum wage hikes will kill their businesses because they were too stupid to read that the law didn't apply to businesses with fewer than 200 employees.

>>739093760
lol that's pathetic.
You're living a child's life.
No wife, no kids, no home, shit job, meager savings, but you think you've made it because you got vidya!

>>739093797
The solution is literally just that. Tax the fuck out of the megarich. They're stealing from the public and moving the money overseas for savings. So fuck them. Tax their current incomes and give the middle and lower class huge tax cuts.

A dollar in the hands of the bottom 80% of society is worth 4-5 in the economy. In the hands of the rich it's worth just $1. In the hands of the mega-rich it's only worth like $0.8 dollars.

>>739094242
Sarcasm doesn't translate very well in this context. Regardless, the point is moot.

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>>739094349
do you like cheese?
I think you doo..........

>>739094233
They also use it to fund stupid shit like education or defense. But who the fuck needs a productive society or secure borders anyways?

>>739094318
solid gold

>>739094041

Wow, suddenly you sound ignorant. I thought I was debating with an intellect.

My apologies.

Go on, look up more about CEOs. Learn something.

>>739094455
I wanted something more than my dollars. I gave dollars for the something. I found this exchange beneficial. Hooray! Utility!

>>739094465
Im only 19, friend. Right now I can live like that and be content. I dont have to live that way forever either. Dont be jealous of the simplicity my life offers me fam

>>739094476
Moot is not here to save you from me.
The point is not moot unless all charities of the world vanish in this instant.
Therefore, stop bashing people who give a fuck and go give a fuck or make like a tree and fuck off.

>>739094081

The man is right, I do disagree with the organization's values.

I've been looking for another job. They're good people, but I feel that their long-term goals are not productive to society, but rather reinforce a culture of need.

>>739094465
found the anon with too much time on his hands.

>>739090825
compound interest
If you would have invested 1 Cent in the year 0 at an interest rate of 5% you would have 54.804.500.527.087.076.481.207.639.782.399.898.812.416€ today.

Without compound interest you would have ~2€

>>739093782
They do not always.
You're essentially calling for large scale gambling, yet if a poor person played the stock market and lost you'd mock them gambling their money away instead of just saving it.

The 50% cut is no joke, either.
I've created products and tried to get them to market. You can't get someone to let you use their distribution without letting them in on a big chunk of your product.

I designed a car windshield screen that charged an emergency battery for your car. It wasn't very efficient, and I never got it powerful enough to jump start a dead car battery, but it could keep a phone alive for a while or run an emergency radio.

Even using cheap photovoltaics and chinese components, most companies, oversees or not, wanted giant cuts to produce the things and still left the marketing, selling to stores, etc, on me.

>>739094677
but you're literally creating value arbitrarily thus it is a fraudulent value thus the system is fraudulent is it not?

>>739094293

Oh good grief, not this shit again.

Go on, do some research and find me even one company or individual who happily paid 90% of their profit/income to the government.

There's a reason those taxes came down, because they were completely ridiculous.

>>739094465
There's a lot of work on the term "creative destruction". You can read more about why this is a good thing. A grad student made this documentary about globalization, and creative destruction of archaic jobs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne5LM2U-I5o

>>739094705
keep thinking that. then one day you'll be 27. then you'll be like "Jesus Christ omg no wft wft I wana die."

>>739094391
Why shouldn't it get taxed to tell and back. As you fuckers love to say you need to work hard and earn money. Don't expect a handout. Isn't inheriting a shit ton of money, a handout?

>>739094761
see >>739094766

>>739094967
or interests changed with time? the value of the money? The Feds?
nevermind.

>>739094909
You mean they want to be paid for producing a good or service for you? SSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIINNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>739090825
Hard work, dedication, government corruption, Crony capitalism, bullshit patents.

It's weird, I used to think the rich were stealing from the poor, then I applied for a blue collar job and got all the certifications they wanted me to get.

With the Pell Grant, I got paid to go to community college and get a vocational degree. Tuition cost less than $600 a semester and they paid me ~$950 a semester cash.

Now I'm working as an aerospace tool builder making $28/hour 60+ hours a week and own two rental houses.

Everything you need to succeed is available to you, you just have to use the tool you're given instead of sitting around all day jacking off.

That's asking too much of the majority of you though.

>>739095079
And your point is..?

>>739094391
>increase the estate tax to 75%

Ah, so you mean to return it to what it had been for the past 100 years or so, rather than having it phased out completely for the first time since the founding of the US?

I'm not a Hilary supporter, but repealing the estate tax was one of the most pants-on-head retarded things Republicans have done in recent memory.

How can you say you like freedom if you support a system that promotes a reduced level of ownership for the majority of the population (this includes you).

>>739094923
It's defined by fulfilling a need, want, or desire. This is by no means arbitrary.

>>739090825
>The center section of OP's image looks like the flag of Seychelles.

>>739094465
You have to remember, anon, most of the anons here are under 20 and still think they're living the life when they have a hundred or so dollars at the end of the month.

>>739095211
bruh I got rejected for the Pell even though I fit the criteria, that is not true for everyone.

>>739095230
I was right and you are stupid.

>>739094349

You think this is about tax rates?

It's about where the government's money is coming from.

https://www.mercatus.org/publication/breakdown-federal-personal-income-taxes

Examine the chart. Altogether, of earners 5% pay nearly 60% of income taxes. The top 50% of the population pays 97%.

And of that, the federal government pays 40% of it's total budget into entitlements (pensions, healthcare, welfare, food stamps, etc).

The rich are subsidizing the poor for too long. I'm not saying the system is perfect, I'd like to see it change.

But I don't want Big-Daddy government telling me how to change it.

>>739092334
Don't you think it's pretty shitty that credit card companies have basically made it impossible to live without a credit card?

>>739090825
pareto principle. money does beget money, because once you have a surplus you dont need for living comfortably, you can invest and make more.

>>739093856
Stupid child. You likely make nothing.

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>>739094253
This.
Im 18 and bust my ass making $12 an hour. I only made it here because I started busting my ass at fast food jobs until I could land a retail store.
and for all the non graduates that have no diploma or GED to their name, just fucking lie on applications, its not like theyre gonna ask you to pull your fucking diploma out of your ass, and even if they catch you, the worst thing thatll happen is that you'll have to go back to looking for another job.

Honestly living by yourself isnt that hard, I've been out of my parents house since I was 15.

I've had my fair share of struggles and I was even homeless for 4 months. I eventually just got up and started working.

Now I have a car
place to live
all the weed I can smoke
reliable income
and a bad ass bitch to ride my dick whenever the fuck I want.


We live in America! Get off your ass and work for some shit for a change you lazy fuckers.

Random high thought,
What if a dollar's value was defined as the average cost of living in the US for a day?

>>739095297
but if it becomes a value inflated to the point where no one with any hold on it can pay it back within reason, it becomes the housing market crash of 2008.
I suppose in the way we give it value MAKES it not arbitrary, however, when there is nothing to give it any physical redemptive value, it seems like an incredibly dangerous mechanism to base an entire economy off of.

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>>739092234
>There were no poor people before Reagan was elected.

>>739095424
Denial suits you, ignorant friend.

>>739095260
This is a strange argument, as if you leave someone cash equivalents, then it is taxed, but if you invest it into a private equity firm, it would not be taxed. Or if you gave someone money while alive, it wouldn't be taxed, but once you die, it is taxed. Taxing generally is just bad, so whatever... Describing estate tax has always seemed weird to me.

>>739090825
we gave slaves freedom, so it really drove up the bottom 80%

>>739095523
what's shittier is how hard it is to start up with no credit making shit annually.
College was not fun.

>>739095516
Once upon a time the gov didn't need to spend a metricfuckton on entitlements because even the poor had the opportunity to support/better themselves. When too few people own too much of everything, there's a lot less of it for the rest to do anything productive with for themselves.

>>739092367
You might first ask "Is this a problem?"

>>739095561
wow this guy pretending he's better because someone put an extra number on his paycheck.
grow up faggot.

>>739094705
If you're only 19 you can fuck off while the adults are talking.
You don't know anything about the real world.
You don't even know simplicity.
I grew up in the rural midwest. When I was 19 I lived in a cabin on a wooded lake in Arkansas without power. I fished every day to feed my family, and bow hunted all winter.
I only made it to college to become an engineer because I had a 33 ACT and won the only full ride scholarship available in my town.

Every other peer, every other hard-working, studious teenager had to go to a shitty trade job or work their daddy's farm or become a truck driver.

So much for the simple life. So much for trade jobs. So much for just saving up money, right?

Most of you contrarian fucks who glorify libertarianism has no idea what true freedom is like.

The freedom to die of a stomach virus because your whole family is sick and you don't have a working car between the three of you and there's a foot of snow on the ground keeping you from stumbling the 8 miles to the nearest telephone to call the single local sheriff deputy your town has to drive you to the nearest hospital, which is an hour away.

That's how my cousin died. We were best friends growing up. He didn't make it out of highschool because he shit and puked his brains out into a bucket while his family was snowed into their house with a severe stomach bug.

But they were free! Yup! Our grandparents moved out to the sticks specifically to get away from taxes and big government and by golly it worked! No more oppressive state stealing their income! Now they just had to invent jobs in rural Arkansas and put up with dirt roads and no ambulances and only one cop to call for help within a 20 mile radius.

You kids don't know what the fuck life is like without a safety net. You feel confident right now but next time you're sick or injured you'll be thanking god for taxes.

>>739095516
>implying that they pay that tax rate after abusing loopholes.

>>739095702
These concepts are not related. The government insured bad loans and large financial institutions took advantage of this system. This has more to do with government intervention. Think about this way. In a "free market" you would never loan money to someone who wasn't going to pay it back. Some other force had to intervene to cause that to happen.

>>739095707
>80% of the population was considered poor previous to Reagan.

>>739094651
>I thought I was debating with an intellect.
>on /b/
>during the current year

You sure try to sound smarter than your actions demonstrate

also,
>implying I was the person you were even 'debating' with

>>739090825
honestly, thats the closest to fair theres ever been.

>>739095752
Ah, you're trolling. Good deal. You got me.

>>739092662
Generational wealth tends to peter out after abut 3 generations.

>>739095260

Not sure what you mean. This from Wikipedia:

(Taxes which apply to estates or to inheritance in the United States trace back to the 18th century. According to the IRS, a temporary stamp tax in 1797 applied a tax of varying size depending on the size of the bequest, ranging from 25 cents for a bequest between $50–$100, to 1 dollar for each $500. The tax was repealed in 1802. In the 19th century, the Revenue Act of 1862 and the War Revenue Act of 1898 also imposed rates, but were each repealed shortly thereafter. The modern estate tax was enacted in 1916.[42][43]

The modern estate tax was temporarily phased out and repealed by tax legislation in 2001. This legislation gradually dropped the rates until they were eliminated in 2010. However, the law did not make these changes permanent and the estate tax returned in 2011.[44]

"But late in 2010, before that clause took effect, Congress passed superseding legislation that imposed a 35 percent tax in 2011 and 2012 on estate in excess of $5 million. Like the 2001 legislation, the 2010 legislation had a sunset clause so that in 2013 the estate tax would return to its 2001 level. But then on New Year's Day 2013, Congress made permanent an estate tax on estates in excess of $5 million at a rate of 40 percent."[45])

According to this, estate taxes have been around for a long time, but have NEVER been as high as what Hillary suggested they should be. The only types of government that believe in heavy taxation of estates are the socialist and communist systems.

>>739095671
18 and you got the job game figured out, move on to investing when you got change in your pocket kid.....
or better yet stop smokin weed and save on a down payment for a fucking house dude.

>>739095326
i dunno anon...there are a lot of over-20's that have posted some really stupid stuff and either shield themselves from new life experiences or tightly cling onto their beliefs.

>>739096026
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ikr

>>739095793
we could also chain our dogs and only give them 3 oz of water a day with some road kill, but thankfully we realized we don't want to be a bunch of unfeeling apes as we went along you fucking redneck.

>>739096096
My grandpa before he passed told me to invest in penny stocks.

I have no clue how to invest or even look at stock marketing shit, but I know its something to learn.

All I know is that what I put into it, is what Im getting out.

Thats why I work so hard all the time.

>>739095866
and if you're not retarded, you will think
"Why yes. Yes it is."

>>739093507
10 people are on an island. In the crash 1 man breaks his leg and is unable to collect food. The others go and collect food. The group asks the man who finds the most if he would give some to the man unable to work. He refuses. The man dies. Everyone is happy because capitalism.

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>>739090825

I'm sorry I didn't find this thread earlier to settle it and save you all the idiotic thrashing.

Let's sit down and really think hard about this one. What group is gonna grow faster, the really tiny group (rich people) or the really big group that loves to have lots of kids?

Holy shit, wealth disparity is getting worse and worse! It turns out poor people have poor children!!!

>>739095755
There were limits on the amounts you could give while still alive. In the end it was considerably difficult to pass on an entire economic empire to one's offspring.

Another important thing to consider about the estate tax, is that it only applied amounts large enough the average person would never have to worry about it in the first place. You could inherit a mom&pop business / house etc with no problem, but passing on something the size of Walmart would be a no-go.

>>739095198
Move those goalposts, bitch.
Back em up some more.

>>739094992
I ain't wasting my time.
Give me a tl;dr.

And before even watching it: If it's anti-globalist, it's garbage.
Whether you like globalism or not, it's here to stay. It's the rules everyone else plays by, so we are no longer capable of just opting out of it. It would be suicide for us as a nation, for any nation, to not pursue it.

Being anti-globalist is like being anti-capitalist.
Great! But now what? The whole world is a market. How are you going to participate if you refuse to play with everyone else?
There is no non-capitalist global economy for you to utilize. It's that, or nothing.
Same for globalism now. You play ball or you starve yourself to death.

>>739095326
I remember that age.
>Aw shit yeah, it took me all summer but I saved up enough for this sweet $2k miata! I can finally drive myself places!
Life was good. For about 6 months.

>>739095936
I like you anon, always speak
unless you're lying, then you can an hero.

Read a book called Dark money, it explains all this shit

>>739093758
Sweden has been really good, but it is failing. Nurse jobs are horrible atm, teachers are mass recruited with no standard. Country is in debt for the first time in a while, but the socialist party says were better off than ever.

>>739095963

Um.. this is exactly what they paid. These are the numbers for what the government brought in in income tax in 2008.

>>739091267
umm graph is from 2007 as clearly indicated in the image. WRONG PRESIDENT ASSHOLE!!!

>>739095671
Your first broken tooth, or that ruptured appendix, or maybe a broken arm from a bad fall, will teach you the shortcomings of this approach really quickly.

You're one accident away from bankruptcy.

>>739096679
Im Indian. I get free healthcare.

>>739096417

Exactly, the only way to prevent the government from taking your business once it gets too large is to incorporate.

Regular people can't just own it all themselves.

>>739096401
Maybe we should stop trying to defund planned parenthood then

>>739096469
It's called Globalization is good.

>>739096004
Do you NOT READ?????

>>739096758
I'm registered too. We both know the indian clinics are shit.
Long waits. Shit service. Non-emergencies have to sign up months in advance.

Also, that's still a form of welfare, yo.

>>739096036
Correct, in recent history it has. Previous to that you had Monarchies in most of the world with a handful of families ruling/owning everything for hundreds of years.

That the safeguards enacted by the founders of the US who were trying to escape all that are being repealed in the name of freedom is ironic.

>>739096498
really? that's the problem that you found with that statement?

>>739096939
I mean, you're right. The service is shitty, but even still, its free, what are you expecting?
Im okay with waiting for a little while if it isnt going to cost me a dime out of pocket.

The only money lost is the money not spent well.

>>739090825

Huge wealth disparities are always going to exist. What's more, they always seem to exist in countries that have a lot of economic prosperity.

Rather than looking at these disparities as a problem, let us consider them solid indicators of national wealth.

That some people have more money than me has never bothered me.

But if anyone is looking to change this picture, it must be done through ownership.

Start saving your money bitches!
Ultimately

>>739096996
it is a factual lie.

Graph is from a liberal group and likely false as well, happier now?

>>739091824
>Every society that has attempted to do this has been worse off for doing so.

Sources?

>>739096321
You're already halfway there.
don't be intimidated by stocks, just play around a little to begin with and pretty much don't sink your money into anything on a whim. Research your investments thoroughly.
Wells Fargo has a stock trading service that isn't too expensive if you're thinking to put a hundred or so into each trade you make. Don't do too many trades to start it will bog you down and possibly discourage you but if you want to go for more that is fine depending on your budget.

>>739090825
That's ok as long as I am in the 1-2%.

>>739096054
1935-1981 it was 70%
page 5
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/ninetyestate.pdf

Isn't that roughly the period considered to be a golden age in the USA?

>>739096806
lmao this

>>739090825
Poor people are dumb (generally). Dumb people buy shiny expensive things they can't afford. Dumb people don't plan for the future. Dumb people rent property from others rather than owning property and assets. This is all really easy to explain once you realize how many fucking dumb people there are in the world.

>>739097188
Jesus Christ, you are living proof of Poe's Law, aren't you?

>>739096491
Try being trillions into debt

>>739090825
this
>>739093212
and
https://markmanson.net/american-dream

>>739097106
if you're poor, that is a perpetual hamster wheel til you die deal.

>>739097561
>the 1 -2% of POOREST IN THE FUCKING WORLD
ftfy

>>739090825
The pussification of men.

Dumb ass parents and education system, brainwashing kids to only worry about themselves, and not what's going on with anyone else. We've all heard it before.

So then, you all know your bosses are raking in one hundred to two hundred thousand plus a year from having you slave at thirty to forty thousand a year, and you all go along with this thinking you're going to be the one they let into the upper levels of the pyramid scheme.

Since most of you are fucking clueless, and couldn't organized a circle jerk if your life depended on it, this goes on. All because as peers they broke your asses a long time ago, and know you don't have the mental capacity, sight beyond self interest, or balls to confront them collectively.

>>739091009
>literally half the country doesnt make enough tto be taxed because they are dumb or lazy

Actually people in the US are some of the hardest working people in the world. They just keep get fucked because they accept it. I mean, when the leading cause of bankruptcy is inability to pay medical bills, you've got to wander what the hell went wrong.

>>739097725
poor people are mostly dumb because they've never had time to educate themselves with all the hard work they do.
Just saying.

>>739097725
you are an (ass)et

>>739098106
Are you Gay Focks?
Can I buy your mask???

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In the United States, education isn't equal. The school's funding depends on the property value around it. Therefore the poor are going to get shittier schools. Simple. (inb4 even shittier magnet programs that make kids get up at 5AM to go to school. It's unrealistic, I don't care if you did it.)

advances in computers have made communism a workable economic system.

>>739090825
Jews and their schemes. Look into privately owned banking. (((Rothschild)))

>>739098796
While true, that doesn't answer OP's question.

>>Be Me
>>poor fag growing up
>>remember going to grade school,only having a sammich with one heal and peanutbutter
>>shittiest clothes. wore the same pair of jeans three months straight, had outgrown everything else
>>would cry to the lunch lady that I forgot my lunch money just for food.
>>went on subsidized lunches with me and my brother and sisters.
>>shitty kmart shoes
>mom finally left for a DUI guy, after 2 other failed marriages.
>>grew up in home where no one even heard of collage, dad worked in fast food.
>>tried my hardest, took a 2 years extra, put myself thru college....had to take off some semesters to work and get money.
>>get money, start investing in 20's
>> no where 'rich', got job , they paid for my masters degree
>>making good money...always invest and always live cheaply.
>>being a millionaire now in my 40's

I still have a lot to do. i suck at women and have been divorced once, and one really screwed up relationship.
Start investing in your 20s...compound interest in your favor. Fuck the nice cars, video games, any other toy you think you need.

GET EDUCATED...only way out of being a poor fag. Even if it means a 2 year degree.

>>739098946
it does provide a solution which makes OPs question very mute though.

Because this data is from the 2007 economic slump?

>>739090825
>How did this happen seriously guys im really asking
Republican fiscal policies.

>>739099146
In order to answer the question of "What should we do?", we need to answer "How did this happen?".

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this thread makes me poop

80% of the population are stupid idiots...

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>>739090825
Too ironic not to post. Thread just below this one.

taxes are too low obviously

>>739099085
You're not living. You're just chasing the dragon you'll never catch. Tell me, when will you start to enjoy the money you've worked so hard for. Stop being a cheap ass

>>739099366
I try to tell people and they call me a socialist.
I'm like, no, wealthy people tend to be greedy that's all...
"SOCIALISTE!"
we are all doomed to an anti-economy

>>739093956
That's fucking idiotic.
If someone would know that their children wouldn't get their money after they would have gone off this world, they would go into spending spree, throwing money into throats of hookers, getting wasted and coked up.
Why not treat yourself, when you cannot help your own children?

>>739099349
As apposed to liberal tax and spend...quit drinking the kool aid dumbass....

Quit finding a big shadow to blame and get out there and work for your wealth.
Get rich schemes are for only dumb as people slinging drugs or other pyramid or illegal shit.

Get a degree, one that will actually pay your ass ( not like history or english )

>>739099349
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
I mean, literally this.

Workers keep breeding.

Jews

>>739090879

Communism is also shit.

Both capitalism and communism have defects, and people thinking that one is better than the other are comparing shit to rotten food.

I thought it was a lot worse than that tbh.

The latest figure I've seen are like almost twice as bad

>>739090825
Because a greater and greater percentage of the population are retards that contribute nothing to society and use more in taxes than they pay in to the system. If you killed the bottom 50% of the US population, crime would go down, GDP would increase, tax expenditure would massively drop, and society and technology would advance far more rapidly without having to drag the anchor behind of all the niggers and spics that are flooding in that lack the intelligence, drive, and ambition to even break even on supporting their own large families (often our of wedlock, especially among the blacks).

>>739099650
>>739099650
We need a genocide of the workers because we don't need any. We should all get rich from owning things.

>>739094293
Laffer's curve called, she said you're a fat fucker.

>>739099859
Wat.

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>>739099405
topkek

Most workers find their raisons d'être originate in their genitals, their stomachs, or the mind demons that haunt their existence. Workers will sell anything, ANYTHING, to meet the above needs.

Keep being horrible people. The sex slavers always need more runaways.

Yesterday i was so yellow because the submarine going to flashlight the house at negative vibrations. Nothing climbs so hard in the garden over the street at nine. Never stops bleeding the overlord and milk so cute

>>739099964
Speaking the truth. Fuck you peasant

>>739090825
>Meanwhile 10% of society gets 90% of social benefits.
>But nobody will find it unfair.

>>739094465
Why do you bother arguing with this board? They're angsty upper-middle class fuccbois from some hick suburb that are fiscally conservative because their parents are. Not worth the effort.

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>>739100087

You are the bait.

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>>739090825
Its Jews privilege.

>>739098657
I have ADHD and have my whole life. I'm 30 and center left. Your chart is horseshit.

>>739096401
this

>>739090825
citizens united happened the rest is history

>>739091196
The US econmy hasn't been based on production in 30 years. It's not even based on consumption anymore. It is now primarily based on debt.

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>>739090825
This is the natural course of human history. Wealth has ever flown from the peasantry to the nobility. As it was, so it shall be.

>>739101380
this. once the credit card issuers successfully lobbied to make them easy to acquire, multitudes of Americans doomed themselves financially.

>>739090825
feels nice to be in that top 4%

I don't know and I don't care, I'm here to make my own money, save up my own money and spend my own money how I please. If need be I will survive on top spaghetti and red sauce for years to have enough money to do what I need to do.

We're all responsible for our own actions even if we're not responsible for our own upbringing.

Why yesterday i was so yellow because the submarine going to flashlight the house at negative vibrations. Nothing climbs so hard in the garden over the street at nine. Never stops bleeding the overlord and milk so cute..

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how did it happen? Not a clue

>>739101915
lol sure kid

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>>739100861
buckle up, it's going to be a looooong road to 2020

>>739100861
>>739102524
what do you guys think the jews are up to? i mean whats their long term game?

>>739102284
>kid
>implying I'm going to bother trying to prove to you my wealth

let's just say doctorate in mathematics, you do the math

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>>739090879

Rip

>>739099582
>throwing money into throats of hookers, getting wasted and coked up
yes, my 90 year old grandma would go on a coke and hooker bings if it werent for me

>>739102835
you brought it up, you clearly wanted people to know about it. I'm just calling it out as fantastical bullshit. Anyone with significant wealth would not be fucking around on a dated imageboard.

>>739103343
>dated
>he doesn't know "Don't Forget You're Here Forever"

been on /b/ since 2003, will probably be on /b/ in 2023. I like to shitpost and I'd rather not tie it to my name (as I said, no need to tarnish what I've built)