Also Why I'm no longer a conservative.

>>739030281
Modern Republicans and Lincoln-era Republicans are a very different thing, anon. And the Trump Party may well be a different thing from both, to be honest.
Personally, I do not identify myself with Lincoln because anyone with more than a middle-school level knowledge of history knows that Lincoln openly stated that he had no intention of making blacks equal to whites, of giving them the vote or property rights, and thought that as long as blacks and whites coexisted in the same area that they must always be held second to whites. Google "Lincoln Douglas Debates" or just "I am not nor have I ever been" if you don't believe me.

Obviously, I don't fly the confederate battle flag either. I did vote for Trump, though, but it had nothing to do with rallying around Lincoln nor that flag. No idea what news you've been watching.

>>739030281
Conservatives haven't been progressive since Teddy Roosevelt.
They tried running the country like a business with hoover, and ended up with the worst depression in our history.
they tried it again with Reagan but made it work with neoliberal policy.
And again are trying the business run state with Trump... but we are all sick of neoliberalism.
It is hard for america to crash like it did with Hoover, but it will not end well.

>>739030880
>And the Trump Party may well be a different thing from both, to be honest.

This x1000. I thought I was conservative until Trump. I though I could give him a chance, but his supporters are fucking idiots. Libertarian party looks better every day.

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>>739031738
I know man. I spent 08 - 12 laughing at the libertarians trying to get Ron Paul or Gary Johnson into the white house.
I would totally rather have them in than Trump.

Fuck, I couldn't bring myself to vote for Obama again in 2012, but I sure as shit would now.

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>>739030281
OP samefagging because no one gives a fuck about your fiction.

people only ever convert from libturds to rational (conservative), never vice versa.

>>739032302
Negative.
I joined the military at 18, born from a midwestern huge catholic irish/german family.
I was born into conservatism.
About 3 years into my military career i realized there are more than just privileged white people in our country, much less there are countries FAR worse off than us.
Anyway, egalitarian or bust.

>>739032270
Sounds like you're much wiser, now that you're 13 years old.

>>739030281

Well you fell for the (((media))) straw man, then

By the way I heard there was a good article on the Huffington Post about Trump kicking nigger puppies

>>739032270

Most mass shootings are done by registered democrats though.

Clearly we are best off banning islam all together while also banning democrats from owning guns.

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>>739030281

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>>739032577
wtf? that makes no sense.

the very fact that you've swallowed the false marxist assumption that wealth is zero sum and only acquired by theft, shows you were never conservative to begin with. I.e., you are lying.

egalitarianism is inherently unfair. If Suzy does 4 hours of work and Jim does 1 hour of the same kind of work, then should Suzy and Jim get the same pay? An egalitarian says "yes," a rational person says: "no, that's inherently unfair."

Any system which allows freedom of exchange/contract is a system in which people will make different choices, act differently, and reap different rewards.

>>739030281
Lincoln was more of a modern Democrat than modern Republican
>opposed state rights
>provoked wars so that he could say "I didn't start this, but I will end it"
>hired more people to the federal government than all previous presidents combined
>hated the south so much he authorized the literal burning of the capital cities of two southern states

>>739033423
yeah, but he wasn't a flaming marxist that wants to burn the constitution and hand America over to Islam, like all modern democrats.

>>739033792
>modern democrats
>Marxist
You do know most of the democrats are centrists, right? I don't support them either, but they're definitely not marxists.

>>739033792
Jefferson stationed a large portion of the navy in the Mediterranean and north African Atlantic to protect US ships from attack by muslims
Lincoln withdrew those vessels to starve people he considered US citizens

until SCotUS decided on Texas vs the United States (1870)
the "perpetual union" clause was largely understood to mean that the states need do nothing to remain in the union, but had the option to leave
in fact the northern states threatened secession several times through the 1840s and 1850s over the slavery clauses of the constitution

Lincoln issued an executive order ending slavery contrary to the constitution and established means of amendment

>>739034400
The crazy wing has basically taken over.

What about just having 2 elections. All party candidates compete in the first one, and first and second place are given 90 more days to campaign. This would eliminate 3rd party interference, and people wouldn't be afraid of throwing away their votes on a losing candidate in the first election. It will give the libertarian and green parties a fair chance.

>>739030281
ITT>
People too stupid to find /pol/

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>>739034400
right, all those "centrists" who would have nominated socialist sanders, had Shillary not hijacked the process.

>I don't support them either....

sure, lori. we all believe you're not a filthy, dirty liar.

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>>739033792
That is perhaps the most retarded post I've seen on 4chan (any board) all week.

Do you realize what an achievement that is? You'll probably never accomplish anything this significant ever again. You should kill yourself right now, at your peak.
Don't worry, nobody will miss you.

>>739034779
Classic Democrat tactic: You don't have an argument or defense, so you just attack the poster.

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>>739034486
so, you accept the premise that modern democrats are flaming marxists who want to burn the constitution and hand America over to Islam, and your strategy is to try to show that Lincoln was a flaming marxists who want to burn the constitution and hand America over to Islam?

nice one. you lost the argument before it began.

>>739034551
make the popular election so that voters can vote for multiple candidates
then the candidate that receives the most votes and all candidates that receive within 10% of the votes of the top candidate are sent to the electoral college for consideration
that way the president has well more than half the popular support
and the electoral college just weeds out candidates that have no practical experience relating to presidential responsibilities

>>739034486
>>739033792

You don't know what Marxism is do you...

>>739030281
LOL. Democrats owned slaves then and they've re-enslaved the black man now. You were never a conservative in the first place.

>>739034972
maybe you should do a better job defining your position

>>739034972
Islam, Zionist Jews
Same patch of sand, same imaginary friend, same pedo beliefs.

What's the difference?

>>739031738
I have to agree. I hoped Trump would have done better, but so far he has been lackluster. I guess I could be classified as "middle of the road" now.

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>>739033792
>burn the constitution
There is absolutely nothing in the US Constitution guaranteeing capitalism. If the US wants to adopt Communism the Constitution does not forbid it.

> hand America over to Islam
Democrats would gladly pass a separation of church and state amendment right now. Who do you think stops that? Christian conservitard republicans who want to create their own Jebus Taliban right here.

You really are the worst kind of idiot...the kind who doesn't know he's an idiot.

>>739030880
But its not the Confederate battle flag

>>739034129
this.

>>739033792
successful trolling detected

>>739035349
>you dumb
>me smart
Welcome to fine internet discourse.

>>739034129


Not a repub but this is not even close to being an accurate analogy.

>>739033423
America drop nukes on two cities in japan. Doesn't mean they hated the japanese.

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>>739034779
>retarded

wow, you reddit kids are so limp wristed at insults. you probably feel guilty now for using language hurtful and discriminatory to the developmentally disabled.

>>739034603
these discussions work better on /b/
have you been to pol? they've gone full retard a long time ago.
also who gives a shit about your geolocation

>>739035349
>Democrats would gladly pass a separation of church and state amendment right now.
You mean one like the one we already have? The one called the First Amendment?

>>739035364
Oh, then which flag is it?

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>>739035607
Oh, yes we fucking did, and we had every reason to hate.

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>>739035216
GTFO of here and back to /pol/tardia, cockroach. we all know you are jealous as fuck of Jews and their superior intellects and moral code.

>>739035364
it's one of them

>>739034942
Both sides use ad hominem. Don't act like it's a one sided tactic.
I was just hoping you'd really kill yourself.

>>739035827
Fiction. Just like that pesky 2nd amendment.

>>739035951
Wasn't the same anon, anon. And I never acted like it was a tactic of one side, either. Just that it's more common among Dems.

>>739035607
I'm pretty sure they did
>Camp Azure
>anti-Japanese propaganda
>US citizens of Japanese decent being lynched
>refusing to even listen to a Japanese offer of surrender bc they wouldn't consider removing the Emperor while 117,000 to 260,000 Japanese and 20,000 allied personnel were killed

>>739035827
Tell it to the people trying to ban abortion because of their own religious beliefs and restrict immigration based on religious identity.

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>>739035349
liberty guarantees capitalism, and liberty precludes communism. the constitution guarantees liberty. ergo, the constitution precludes communism and endorses capitalism.

capitalism is just a system where people are free to exchange and form contracts with one another.

blows your tweezerful of brain, doesn't it? now, enter the 4 stages of grief for having lost this debate so resoundingly, despite trying your best.

>>739032577
No such thing as "privilege". Thats something the left made up. Either way you're lying. If you did join he military indoubt you would ever become liberal.

>>739036338
There's definitely privilege.

Trust fund babies have a fuckload of it. So do college kids in 1st world countries.

>>739030281
I know stupid. Most knowledgeable conservatives recognize this and living near the south a lot of republican hating democrats worship the flag. I'm a state individualist and through my perspective I can say the Confederates were doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. They lost though and Confederate symbolism doesn't belong on government property since weren't the Confederate states of America. BTW it just a battle flag.

>>739035794
No they don't. Libs post here because it's a safe space. They know people won't argue and just post trannies.

>>739036300
and are unsuccessful bc of the first amendment

>>739036300
Yes, it's not like babies have any rights. And all religions are religions of peace.

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>>739035364
Yes it is. It's the battle flag of Lee's army.
Most people think it's the "Confederate Flag" but that actually looked like this:

It later got a red vertical stripe added at the right side because it tended to look like the French flag if the wind wasn't blowing.

>>739030281
So then go to the party that originally flew the flag when it actually meant something. Fuckin loser.

>>739030281
Its a symbol of American rebellion.

>>739036451
No thats called the results of hard work.
People who whine about that suffer from success envy.

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>>739036451
most trust-fund babies are flaming liberals.

also: what's wrong with parents giving support to their children? who are you to tell people who earned their own money what they can or can't do it with it? what fucking business is it of tyrannical you to dictate the choices of other people?

>>739036592
>battle flag of Lee's army
Square cross = Virginia Army
Rectangle cross = Tennessee Army

>>739036546
Which is using the 1st amendment as an excuse for arbitrary rulings, since it doesn't mention the word "abortion" and religious freedoms apply to citizens.

>>739035913
lol
>uses "we"
like you had anything to do with that.

you don't know shit. first you weren't there.
second, governments at time of war can easily make the public hate anyone they want to. making the public hate the enemy is no problem, but that's not the point.
those with power who decided to drop the nukes did not do so out of hate.
the opinion of the public had absolutely no effect on that decision

>>739036300
>restrict immigration based on religious identity
Yeah, that's why they're doing it. Not because a certain religion has a higher percentage of murderous asssholes per capita than every other one put together.

>>739036302
You're up past your bed time kiddo.
Capitalism was gone WAY too far. It's become the worst enemy of liberty not just here in the US but all over the world.
Someday you'll have a job and learn that.

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>>739035536
actually it is.

>>739036728
I stand corrected, sir.

>>739036187
you are missing the point, public opinion matters not.

>>739036678
> Trust fund babies
> hard work
kek

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>>739035923
>jews
>moral code
>intellect
k e k

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TAKE IT TO /pol/ NIGGER

>>739036683
There's nothing wrong with it, you mong, it just puts them two or three steps ahead of people whose parents fell on hard times or never had a pot to piss at all. That's privilege.

>>739036774
but it does say that laws can't be made bc religion
they need some secular justification

>>739030281
People who fly the flag for different reasons still follow Lincolns intensives. Black people still call each other niggers go figure.

>>739036683
WTF are you saying? How does that have anything to do with what I said?

>>739032270

>150,000,000 extremists is "a few"

Lol, okay.

>>739036780
"We" as an American, chucklefuck.

>those with power who decided to drop the nukes did not do so out of hate
I know. We did it because it made our victory easier and less costly. That wasn't the point. Point was, anon said we didn't necessarily hate the Japanese, and that's laughably false.

>>739036797
I used too feel this way for the longest time, and it's true to some extent. However, what you refer to as capitalism going to far is actually not that far off in practice from the oligarchy.
but we have to remember that capitalism gave birth to the middle class. i would much rather live in a merchant republic then a centralized bureaucracy. but i guess you've gotta have a bit of both

>>739036338
>If you did join he military indoubt you would ever become liberal.
Differentfag here but that's where I became Liberal.
Working for the government...serving around the world...it all opens your eyes to how things really are.
If you think the military is inherently conservative then you have an uninformed stereotype in your head. I served for 7 years and it was the most diverse group of people I've ever worked with.

>>739037030
Truest fucking thing I've heard on /b/ all day.

>>739036969
Now what it says. This is what it says:

> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

>>739036543
nice try.

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>>739036797
how has a system within which people are free to exchange and make contracts with one another "gone too far"? A priori, the system of free exchange cannot become an "enemy of liberty."

You talk big talk for a community college sophomore. But, it's going to take a lot more than gross and unjustified marxist assumptions to make your case.

meanwhile, tell me more about the utopia of freedom and liberty which historically has been the case with all those communist countries!

>>739036969
>it does say that laws can't be made bc religion
No, actually it says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

It was a direct response to the Church Of England, wherein everyone in England was required by the King to be a member of the CofE because it was England's official religion. It was started to make the King the de-facto head of religion as well as state, because King Henry VIII didn't like the fact that his subjects were also led by the Pope. More specifically, he didn't like the Pope telling him he couldn't get a divorce. The clause in the 1st Amendment means you can't establish the Church Of America as the official religion and ban other religions.

>>739036797
> completely fails at economics
> calls another anon "kiddo"

>>739036969
>laws can't be made bc religion
>>739037312
>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
so you only accept exact quotes?

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>>739036927

sadsack /pol/tard dumbfuck. you sit on the sidelines and shitpost while Jews best you, while Jews excel in every field of human endeavor.

inb4:
>the jewish conspiracy is why I'm not a winner

GTFO of /b/ and back to your /pol/tard cockroach mound. you are universally hated here.

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>>739036592
That's actually the second Confederate flag.

as >>739036728 points out
The "Battle Flag" most people see was the Battle Flag of Tennessee, and never an official flag of the CSA.

>>739036947
A sign that /pol/ is being over run by SJWs or a sign the /b/ is to fucking stupid to use google to look up the words random.

>>739032270
kill all gun owners and you
kill all radical Muslims it's a win win

>>739037506
>you only accept exact quotes?
Not him, but I only accept reading comprehension.
"an establishment of religion" doesn't mean "law made bc religion", it means "establish the official religion of the country as _____"

>>739036825
whens the last time your money was stolen from you so a private citizen could buy themselves a gun?

>>739037506
Look at your two quotes again. They don't even vaguely say the same thing.

>>739037783
About ten years ago.
It's called "mugging".

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>>739037158
stop saying "we" faggit. this is such a good example of idiotic group mentality, a group you have no power in or control over. yet you feel somehow you do and/or can take credit what other americans have done in the past.
but ok i'll play, you are also fat, greasy and badly dressed.

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>>739036953
it's not a zero-sum game, dumbcunt. that one person is given a good education and support from their loving parents does not make or compel another person to lose it.

In fact, shit4brains, people who get those educations and support make the companies that supply jobs to the less fortunate.

communism just guarantees everyone has a shitty life.

>>739037780
Yeah, and "militia" only means the military, right? The First Amendment is there to prevent ANY religion from having de-facto government support, or being favored by law at the expense of everyone else.

Talk to me about reading comprehension, pretentious know-nothing motherfucker...

>>739037780
and it has been interpreted by SCotUS to include laws made purely based on religious doctrine as doing so makes that religion's doctrine the official doctrine of the US and by proxy taht religion the official religion of the US
lrn2 judicial precedent and how to read supreme court decisions

>>739037843
> you're allowed to identify as an attack helicopter
> but you're not allowed to identify with a country

>>739037165
My take on it is that there's no clear line between Socialist and Not Socialist. Unless you're living in Somalia we are all Socialist to a degree. We use the internet, we drive on public roads, we have police, a military and social services that we all use.

The question is how much Socialism are we willing to accept. Given the excesses that capitalism has pushed since the Reagan administration, most people in the US would benefit from a greater degree of Socialism.
But the people who are making obscene amounts of money and hold an un-democratic amount of power because of the excesses of capitalism have half the country whipped into a terrified frenzy by convincing them a fair healthcare system and progressive tax code means Stalin is returning from the grave.

>>739038023
Where did you get your education? A militia is not the military.

>>739037843
Learn how to spell "faggot", faggot. I'm saying "we" because it identifies me as an American talking about what Americans did in the past. You're reading more into it than I wrote, because you're a dumb faggot looking to start an Internet fight without having the capacity to properly spell the word "faggot".

>>739037842
well unlike being robbed to pay for everyones healthcare that wasnt legal for them to do

>>739038203
Hence the sarcasm.

>>739037896
it's the conformity that is worst about communism, you all have to stand together and usually the avarge joe won't have any say in where to stand. But it is also important to note that communism is fundamentally flawed and has never/will never be applied like "it was supposed to"

>>739038122
I agree that it's a matter of degree. But you're using false scare tactics to try to sway people into committing economic suicide.

There are many problems with the system, but most of them start with the government. Giving the government more control just exacerbates the problem, and requires a willful denial of government's massive inefficiencies and failures.

>>739030281
Bumping
>me part of YAF for a year, Los Angeles bro.
>go to conference in DC
>turned off immediately by Reagan/neo con/Fox News shilling (for context, I was pretty much a centrist all my life, until I got hooked onto hating "libtards/sjw/safe space" all the buzzwords of 2016)
>5 days of absolute uncomfortableness for me....autistic savants-college kids like me who reference French economists and ayn rand literally, kids who can't ask decent questions after having 40 minutes to form one during a speech, anti gay/abortion, and right wing think tanks
>>>>but the worst was yet to com
>get home, post on Facebook that the conservative movement also has dumb cunts when they criticized the left for having strawman/bandwagoning and I said it's funny that there's so many closeted homosexuals in there
>>>and that triggered all my "friends" into the removing me from the club and calling me a shame

So I would've been still on the path to be a neocon fagtard, but I was saved by the suppression of my ideas by right wingers. That's why I'm not a "conservative"

Sorry for my shitty grammar, it'd be more concise were I on a computer.

>>739038247
>thinks "faggit" is a spelling error

gtfo o' here kid, this is not the place for you

>>739038320
And yet you're arguing that "respecting the establishment" means "anything related to".

>>739038122
>a fair healthcare system
Fair to whom? Socialized medicine sure as shit isn't fair to doctors.

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>>739038122
you are operating from a false understanding of socialism. you are assuming anything more than anarchy is socialism, which is absurd. A completely non-socialist government can have government made/run roads, fire depts., police depts., etc.

socialism happens when the government undertakes centralized planning of the economy and owns the means of production/distribution.

for instance, Venezuela is a wonderful example of a socialist utopia.

>>739038349
yup. one of many reasons it is doomed from the start.

>>739038247
why the fuck do you think i give a shit where you are from? your country of origin means nothing to me and does not strengthen your arguments

>>739038467
Have you hung out with left wingers? They're just as bad. You can't really judge ideologies by their smelliest, most screechy adherents.

>>739036825

>Citation Needed

>>739038535
>teach chimps to be doctors and make medical equipment, both durable and consumable
>force chimps to provide free healthcare
>chimps aren't human
>all people are treated fairly

>>739031431
Its actually not hard at all considering USA is essentially a retail nation.
Our economy has the biggest influence on the rest if the world, but as we don't really produce anything, our economy is also the most dependant on other nations.

Today's "conservatives" are more like the followers of Father Coughlin.

Or the Know-Nothings.

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I'm an huuuuuuuuuge Milo fan.

All I want to know is where it I stand in line for the ovens!

The 2 party system has successfully destroyed the country.
It can be repaired if both Democrats and Republicans are forced to do their job and SERVE THE PEOPLE.
Vote 3rd party as often as possible, when non-Republicans and non-Democrats get voted into high offices in large enough numbers; the Republicans and Democrats will start working to appease the voting public and make America functional for We The People.
Do not be fooled by politicians claiming to be independent or 3rd party, if they ever were Republican or Democrat they are not true independent or 3rd party.
Take America Back, make the government pay their TAB.

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>>739038757
besides fucking up catastrophically in your erroneous assumption that "production" can only be "manufacturing," you are also fucking up catastrophically in that American manufacturing is as strong as it has every been.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

Wow, just kill yourself already, dumbfuck libturd.

>>739038122
>a greater degree of Socialism.

There is no such thing as a "little bit more Socialism". Once you start that snowball rolling, it does not stop until its complete socialism.

You sound like you dislike Stalin. You don't want Stalin in the US, right? Because asking for a "greater degree of Socialism" is how you get Stalin.

>>739038712
so true , I always find myself on the right of typical left wingers and vice versa

>>739030880
You voted for Trump? Mind explaining your reasoning? And if you still support him?

>>739038992
It doubled in 30 years? WOW!!!
So in another 60 years it will almost be at the point it was in the 50's.
Well played you angry retard.

You do understand you don't need a pic every time you post right?

>>739038712
Yeah...I was raised in a Los Angeles suburb...multiculturalism was/is unavoidable, so it's not in my nature to be that myopic like a bill o'reilly/hannity viewer.
But that's my issue....the banners of the organization say "free speech matters" but then I can't even criticize some of the representatives in "the right" not the organization itself-though it's definitely a money laundering operation like most political nonprofits
I can't hate all leftists, just the far left who drink salon.com kool aid... and you have to work or talk to them daily if you live in an urban city.

>>739039039
stalin wasn't a socialist as we understand socialism today. a little bit more socialism would mean things like social security and healthcare. how is healthcare gonna lead to Stalin?
i didn't know he had good healthcare and social security.

>>739038467
Leftists are literally moving toward 1984 style thought control and you're mad because some people can't stand fagts acting like they are "normal"?

Sorry but the last two years made it very clear the left is the greatest threat in 50 years.

>>739038023
>"militia" only means the military
lol wut?
Militias were a separate thing from the Army. We don't really have state militias anymore because they were supplanted by the National Guard. But since you're trying to imply that my understanding of the First Amendment means I'm anti-gun, let me reassure you that banning guns is completely pointless and only affects law-abiding citizens. No gangbanger is ever going to pass up his banned full-auto AK-47 for a legal bolt-action .22LR when he's going to do a drive-by. People who are already planning to commit murder don't give a fuck if their weapon is legal or not. Also the world record-holder for spree killing used a delivery van. Even if you gather all seven dragonballs and wish every gun on the earth would disappear, people will still find ways of killing each other. Banning drugs didn't do anything but make drug dealers rich.

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>>739038795
you probably feel really proud of yourself that you could drop coughlin's name.

except, you can't name a single relevant, well-known conservative who shares coughlin's views.

nearly all modern conservatives are libertarian in leaning (unlike coughlin), stand in opposition to anything like the New Deal (which coughlin supported), generally tend to be hawkish (unlike coughlin), and are extremely anti-statist (unlike coughlin who was a big fan of Hitler).

Hitler was a socialist, did you know that? fascism is just a flavor of socialism.

>>739036797
Hah the little man baby screaming about capitalism.

>>739038404
>Giving the government more control just exacerbates the problem
And giving the capitalists/industrialists/oligarchs more control throws away any chance we have of control by the people. Like it or not government is our only chance at controlling our own destiny...reducing its power just drives us further from democracy.

A big problem is cynicism;
>government's massive inefficiencies and failures.
Unfortunately this is what most people have come to accept, but when you look at it on an individual basis 95% of what government does it does pretty well. At least as well as any civilian company I've ever worked for. The problems stem from the systems being overworked and underfunded. You want to live in the most powerful nation on Earth you have to have a large support infrastructure to keep it running. The country works best when we do that. This fantasy of 'minimal government' just serves to put more power into the hands of those few who are bleeding us all dry.

>>739036300
Abortion is murder.

>>739039625
and blowjobs are cannibalism

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>>739039234
you must be a product of the liberal education system, which encourages ADHD and temper tantrums.

read it and weep, pea-brained marxist cunt:

http://www.macrotrends.net/2583/industrial-production-historical-chart

I know you must feel the heat of shame on your face for being beaten and bested by a conservative, but that's no reason to keep making humiliating blunders and flounders.

pic especially for you!

>>739038990
You're essentially saying vote for nobody, because there's no one left who meets your standards.

>>739039625
masturbation and condoms are murder too. sperm should only go in eggs.
Life starts in the balls.

>>739039385
Yeah I'm still not a lefty---but not a neocon shill like the donors want us to become....Oliver north gave a speech on the second to last night-not a single word regretting Afghanistan, Central America, or Iraq....it was a 40 minute speech of rounding up young men to fight and die for old men in air conditioned rooms in D.C.

And to your point about gays---they only back it up based on faith, but I don't care the fact of the matter is it's states right to decides whose marriage holds-but not the federal government even made it okay, I'm not saying trannies are normal, but gay dudes/beautiful lesbians/bull dykes are okay in my book

>>739039730
So your first defense is that production isn't only manufacturing, then your next point is industrial growth.
Absolute genius here everybody

>>739037842
You should hae had a gun

>>739039614
>And giving the capitalists/industrialists/oligarchs more control throws away any chance we have of control by the people. Like it or not government is our only chance at controlling our own destiny...reducing its power just drives us further from democracy.
Nonsense. Who created the oligarchs?

The government did. Because only the government can pass and enforce laws, not private businesses. While businesses certainly colluded to get laws written in their favor, who's primarily to blame when that happens?

The government, because they write and enforce the laws. Businesses literally have no power, unless the government allows it.

All the problems you're complaining about are rooted in the government. Which needs to do what it's supposed to do, a capitalist economy -- set the rules, enforce the contracts, and stop playing favorites and accepting bribes from lobbyists.

>>739031738
Doesn't look to be winning my vote anytime soon
>wasted vote meme

>>739039625
If the left called it murder
I really wonder how triggered conservatives would get---they'd go ballistic to the point where they would stop calling it murder
It's sad that two wrongs don't make a right

>>739039614
>95% of what government does it does pretty well.
No.

It does a few things acceptably, because there are no other options. But when it tries to compete with private enterprise, it fails miserably every time. It's sclerotic, ungainly, incredibly slow to react, and poorly accountable.

>>739039625
>>739039678
You the two of just show how completely ridiculous the argument over abortion has gotten.

Nobody except a few extremists give a shit about sperm. It's not a baby.

But everybody except a few extremists are horrified by partial birth abortions, which literally involve sticking weapons up a woman's vag to kill the baby, before pulling out its corpse, because if they pulled it out first, it would be murder.

It's not a binary fucking decision. Yes, women should have control over their own bodies. But at some point the fetus becomes a baby, which has rights as well. We need to figure out where to draw that line. It's not a YES ALWAYS or NO NEVER question.

>>739030281
>>>/pol/

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>>739040136
hey, I know you must be a big shot at jerkwater community college (the satellite campus after hours, anyway), but for all other educated people, we recognize that "manufacturing" goes together with "industrial production" (not "growth," you ADHD reading comprehension challenged dunce).

Let's list your fuckups, shall we?

First you say that America "we don't really produce anything" (and that we are the "most dependent on other nations" - another whopper which I've not paddled your toddler ass with).

I embarrass you by pointing out that production does not only mean "manufacturing." This is kindergarten shit, and any high-functioning retard would have gone radio silent after this.

but, you are a low-functioning retard so you keep going, even after I show you that American manufacturing has gone gangbusters. After a 3 second look at the pictures of the site I linked to, not having read any of those big-boy words (too challenging), you then go deeper into the shit mess you've already made for yourself by assuming that the chart on that site must be lower than previous historical point which you assume was much higher. This, of course, is based on nothing but your marxist fantasizing.

So, I next show you a chart of industrial production which absolutely punishes you with the facts, falsifying your earlier claims. Again, Hindenburg-like failure here.

Then, unable to stop yourself from yet another embarrassment, you confound "production" and "growth" and think you've made a point, while just highlighting for everyone here what a typical fuckup moron libturds are.

thank you for being such an excellent poster child today.

>>739040266
>All the problems you're complaining about are rooted in the government. Which needs to do what it's supposed to do, a capitalist economy -- set the rules, enforce the contracts, and stop playing favorites and accepting bribes from lobbyists.
Yes, I agree with that.
And who is paying those bribes? The capitalists with the money to shell out huge bribes.
Government has been hijacked by the people with the money to hijack it. Until we can put a leash on unrestrained capitalism it's going to keep happening.

>>739037556
>the average jew
implying nobel prizes are awarded at random...

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>>739041185
took you a while to formulate that incoherent reply, didn't it?

jealous much?

>>739034129
Strawman.

No one wants everyone to have a gun; they just don't want guns banned. No one wants anyone to be without healthcare; They just don't want to pay for the healthcare of others, directly or indirectly.

>>739041065
What do you call it when the guys with guns take money that people throw at them, in fear?

You don't say the guys with guns are being hijacked. Government can't be hijacked, because it is the sole entity charged with creating and enforcing laws.

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>>739041317

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E48QqcTOXeY

>>739041467
Pics of ugly people isn't an argument.

>>739040744
The birth control/abortion debate has NEVER been about babies or fetuses or zygotes. It's all about controlling sexual behavior and it always has been.

If the anti-abortion crowd was serious about reducing abortions they would get on board with real sex education in schools and easily available contraception. Those are the only things that actually work to reduce unwanted pregnancy and by extension, abortion.

But that's not what it's about. It's about a portion of the population that is butthurt about others having sex out of wedlock. The churches are a big driver behind this because without the need for marriage their influence and social power is reduced.

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>>739041543
isn't it?

>>739041738
she's a fatty

>>739041467

I am a lecturer at a university, I pay for my own health care (non-Obummer care), I get no welfare of any kind. I vote republican because I have read volumes of philosophical works and have come to a very reasoned conclusion that freedom and justice are both opposed by left-leaning parties and systems.

you can't meme or strawman your way out of that, can you?

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you're slipping shillbot. This thread's been here for over 2 hours

>>739041670
Oh, bullshit. It's always been about fetuses.

But for one side, it's also about sex is bad. And on the other side, it's about treating babies as a tumor.

So you lie and lie and lie about the other side's motivations, and blindly ignore the appalling stuff on your own side.

So fuck you both. Or not, because you're both disgusting.

>>739041787
Trump University doesn't count, retard.

>>739041787
>I get no welfare of any kind
directly, but I have no fucking problem taking a fuck ton of money the government stole from other people and gave to my students to give to me

>>739041673
Nope. Just makes you look really stupid.